Transcript of Record — Anderson v. Mt. Clemens Pottery Co.
Supreme Court brief1946
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| Supreme Court of the ted Stats
<3 OCTOBER TERM, 1945 a
ce STEVE ANDERSON, EKARL TROMBLEY, LILLIAN
SOCIA, ALBERT WATKINS, -ARTHUR SIBBE,
__._NELSON LUCHTMAN, RITA SCHU LTE, individually,
for and in behalf of themselves and others similarly. situ-
ated; and LOCAL No. 1083, UNITED POTTERY
WORKERS OF AMERICA, Affiliated with the Congress
of Industrial Organizations, Mt. Clemens, Michigan,
Petituoners,
Vs.
MT. CLEMENS POTTERY COMPANY,
Respondent.
°
TRANSCRIPT OF RECORD
On Petition for Writ of Certiorari to the United States Circuit
Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ~
- (VOL. Il—Index and Pages 529 to 1056, Inclusive)
=
EDWARD LAMB,
LOWELL GOERLICH,
1014 Edison Bldg.,
Toledo, Ohio, é
ee, . _ Attorneys for Petitioners.
FRANK E. COOPER,
BEAUMONT, SMITH & HARRIS,
Ford Building.
Detroit, Michigan,
BERT V. NUNNELEY
Mt. Clemens, Mich
Attorneys for Respondent
| |
>
oa. Saat
United States of America -
IN THE ,
United States Circuit Court it one
FOR THE SIXTH CIRCUIT.
‘MT. CLEMENS POTTERY COMPANY.
Appellant,
"ops. ; / Bs
STEVE ANDERSON, EARL TROMBLEY, LILLIAN
SOCIA, ALBERT WATKINS, ARTHUR SIBBE, NEL-
SON LUCHTMAN, RITA SCHULTE, individually, for
and in behalf of themselves and others similarly situated ;
and ‘LOCAL 1083, UNITED POTTERY WORKERS
OF AMERICA, Affiliated with the Congress of Industrial
es nets Mt. Clemens, Michigan,
macicinaacile
- Appeal From the District Court of the United States for the _
_ Eastern District of Michigan, Southern Division. oe
- + Civil Action No. 2582 ; —
"TRAN SCRIPT OF RECORD
{VOL. I] ~—Index and Pages 529 to 1056, Inclusive)
FRANK E. sie
-lith Floor, Ford Building.
Detroit 26, Michigan; | ~
BERT V. NUNNELEY,
Mt. Clemens Savings Bank Building,
Mt: Clemens, Michigan ;
BEAUMONT. SMITH & HARRIS. :
Of Counsel,
Attorneys for Appellant.
EDWARD LAMB,
LOWELL GOERLICH, : : =~ 3
1014 Edison Building, -
Toledo, Ohio,
Attorneys: for Appellees.
&
' GENERAL INDEX
Index of Exhibits |. - *
‘The exhibits, including those which were net designated for inclusion
athe printed record, are listed numerically with a concise description s
f each exhibit and with references to transcript and record pages in
tlie concluding volume of the record. To conserve space, this Index of
Exhibits has not been reproduced in. the General Index.
ral
Index of Pleadings
Revcurd
ih Page
Tablé of Calendar Entries . eet 1
~ * aes - " : : 7
}*
PROCEEDINGS IN UNI STATES CIRCUIT COURT
OF APPEALS—SIXTH CIRCUIT. - . °
. | PAGE. Ps
Entry ause Argued and Submitted. LT:
NN oe eT )
Onition’*. 7.2): nae i 9
Clerk’s* Certificate. ee ie teeta he oe ee.
; | ae 5
4 > /
; ‘ ~S
iiekdtien. of Arthur Baxter, et, al 36
Designation of Ruth: Gottschalk, et ‘al Syageeensenenbansnn - 37
Designation ‘ot Arthur Sibbe, et ee eo 39
Designation of H. Wilson, et al... ... 41
eg ERTIES rt ten neo RELI IE rae _ 42
g
—— ee eee
.
.
|
}
\\ Motion to strike or fot further particulars *
‘Supplemental Order denying plaintiff’ & request for Judegnent
ii .
<-
» ee
Reee
Pas
1
d
Order on motion of defendant to strike or for f arthes particulars. - “3
Order extending time to file Amendment to the Bill of Partieul:ir-
to December 15, 1941 | hearted Re cides dates Soon j
Amendment to plaintiff's Bill of Particulars eed ese Net
Motion for Judgment and for appointment of Special Master
Motion of Mt. Clemens Pottery Company to strike or for further
; particulars ......0..0...0.:.... __. SI EES, NDIA De eee NOTE SEO
‘ Answer of Mt. Clemens. Pottery Company to Motion for J udgment
and for appointment of Special Master... —
‘Order denying Motion for Judgment 20.0.0... ee
Answer of Mt. Clemens Pottery Company and Motions fo Dismiss:
and Strike ............... cee “thee ae Pe ‘Cds se
_ Order denying plaintiff’s ’s' request for Judgment without prejudice,
- ete. A SS "SY ee OT Ol OC EE ARAN A
without prejudice, ete. .._ _ ano NO SOE esis! Se
Exceptions of Mt. Clemens Pottery paneer to Paw
Order of January 6, 1942 pA piatatn sine iapaRssbons Snancansnat
Motion of plaintiffs for Summary. J element
“Answer of Mt. (temens Pottery Company to Motion for Summary
I Ea cas A castnavcrdiemtananactastcds Smear ea
Order denying Motion for Summary Judgment - Ces
- Order denying Motion for Summary ts and d rterring cause
Bb
to Donald L. Quaife as Special Master |
Supplemental Order denying Motion for Summary Judgment, ete.
Designation of Irene Nocker, et Sek a a Se a ER ico
Designation of Bell Behnke, et ‘a Cte a Eee
8
BB
Report of Special Master .. -
~
Objections to Master's Report.
Motion of Mt. Clemens Pottery Company for entry of Judgmen!
on Report of Specia! Master. .....---- . ;
Order dismissing cause as to S. 5. Kresge Co. with prejudice Joe
Opinion of the Court ( July 2, 1943) -+...2--+-- basa 23%
Motion of Plaintiffs. to settle indies of Fact, Conelusions at 3
Law and for Judgment Raa FP a or ae ve a DAG
Motion of Plaintiff s for Supplemental Findings Agee ane ra , 25
Motion of Defendant requesting “— of Findings and Con .
clusions seeaifestanes tbe Fe orien a
Notice of settlement of ide of fact ear ee of ta . YOY
Findings of Fact and ¢ ‘onchusions of Law ,. | 202
Preliminary Statement of Exceptions by Defendant to + ee
of. Fact and Conclusions ot Law, ._. - 374
Computations made in accordance wit Court’ a findings. .° «2/6.
Notice of hea ring on defendant’s motion for findings 7 2x6
Opinion of the Court (Mareh 3, 1944) | . ORT
VMotion to Amend Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and
: a
for an entry of Judgment. .
Ubjections to fillowance of attorney fees . Vere 24%)
>
Judgment for Plaintiffs in $2, as. 74, attornsy ‘fees $2,000.00 and”.
Costs to be Taxed TP" LA Pa 297
Petition for Fixing of Bond and Providing for Stay op Giving
of Bond ... ....... . a ee 306
Order fixing Amount of Supersedear and Appeal Bond and Pre.
307
viding for- ‘Btay on Giving of —
tw
iv
,
fi
eae : “Pose
Petition for Order Dispensing with Reproduction of Phy. sical
| Exhibits in Printed Record 20000... BOE
Order Dispensing with Reproduction of Exhibits in Printed Record 31:
Notice ‘of Appeal to Cireuit ( ourt of’ “Appeals Under -Rule 73 RY
Supersedeas and Appeal Bond ..-,........... saesangionseansslih opis emsesn soiaiicct a
Proof of Mailing Notice of Appeal ., Se ee
Designation of Record on Appeal by Defendant-A Appellant: oe 216
Concise: Statement of Points on which Defendant- Appellant Mit. |
- Clemens Pottery Company Intends to Rely. ...... 364
Affidavit of Service ia snicdceitaim laced casts ag isc tne pean acne Aap waestbn: 37%
Order Extending Time to File Record on Appeal. PPro 158
. Stipulation ‘As to. Transcript and Exhibits............ arr Ree ero: 1582
Order allowing eettiorari - = cant a 154
/_ .
. ‘9
‘ 6
a } ey
INDEX OF WITNESSES
'] sae 5
i , Witnesses Called by the Plaintiffs
. : - ‘ Record Teenacript
derson, Steve — oa | he a
Direct Examination by Mr. Re ey ieee 405 rey)
Direct Examination: (Resumed), by Mr. Lamb. 52]: « O02
‘Cross Examination by Mr. Cooper | “323 308
Redirect Examjnation by Mr. Lamb | Hog SBI
Recross Kxamination by Mr. Cooper 6UG. + $90
~ Recross Examination (Recalled) by Mr. Cooper. 98H 2000
- Redirect Examination (Recalled) by Mr. Lamb 14733 $500
Recross ‘Examination by Mr. Nunneley 1470 - 3025
acko, Nicholas ; ; . 8
Direct Examination by Mr. Lamb ved SUT 1974 >
Cross Examination by Mr. Cooper. — . dicta, SO 1998
Cross ‘Examination (Resumed) by Mr. Cooper 916 2040 «
_ Cross’ Examivation (Resumed) by Mr. Cooper. S48 2107
Redirect Examination by Mr. Lamb. 959 2183
Recross Examination hy Mr. Cooper — . 960. 218d
Redirect Examination by Mr.Lamb |. - | O61, 21%
. e e i . ° ‘
loll, Charles B., Sr.— . mee,
Examitiation, by Mr. Lamb"... 0 Ter LAO
Cross Examination by Mr. Cooper ORG SSO
"reddle, Eva— ere me +
Direct Examination by Mr. Lamb ... BAD L784
Cross Examination by Mr. Nunneley 2... 850 1813
Redirect Examination by Mr. Lamb ., =. g91 L848
_’Recross Examination by Mr. Nunneley 2 805 A974
.
o
Larimer, Karl William—
Direct
p Cross Ex
Metz, John A.—
Direct Examination by Mr.
Cross’ Examination hy Mr.
Lamb - .
Nunneley,
hel
i)
Pearl, 1 Floyd K.—
Direct Exa
Cross Exami
‘Redirect .Examination by
on by Mr. Nunneley ..
Reifin, itis A.— |
_ Direet Examination by Mr. Lamb
Cross Examination by Mr. Nunneley
. F P 6
Socia, Lillian— 7
-Direct Examination -by Mr.
Cross Examination by Mr. Cooper ...
4
Teombley. Earl R.— .
Direct Examination. ho Mr. Lamb -
‘ross .Eixaminatior: by Mr. Nunneley_
Redirect Becatastitee by Mr. Lamb.....
_Recross Examination by Mr. Nunneley..
Wishart, Jeunes H. —
Direct Examination by Mr. Lamb .
Cross Examination by Mr. a TLCS
Examination by Mr. Goerlich
mination by Mr. Nynneley ‘......
ination by Mr. Lamb. . :
Goerlich |...
Mr. Lamb
scurd
O91
701
... 1449
1462
Tranecrip:
a
112]
6)
o vii
Witnesses Called by the Defendant .
: : : Record tranecript
ent, Paul C.— ,
Direct Examination by Mr. Cooper. © TT a Fie
Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb O74. | Bye:
Cross Examination by Mr. Boos . a7" wh
Reeross Examination by Mr. Lamb . Q81' °°. 22as..
Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper 8 alc
wll, Charles &., Jr.—
Direct Examination by Mr. Nuurieley me “1200 27 oR
Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb 1227 2780
Redirect Examination by, Mr. Nunneley 1 1235 280%)
Redirect Examination (Recalled) by Mr. Cooper — 1571 3251
. Redirect Examination (Recalled) by Mr. Nunneley 1472 - 3902
Recross Kxanpination by Mr. Lamb 1472 BO
voit, Charles K., Sr.-- a ae :
Previons Examination by Mr. Cooper 1USG 248
Direct Examigation by Mr. Cooper 3 1275 2930)
Cross Exami¥mation by Mr. Lamb 1284 29755
Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper ..1294 3024
Redirect Examination (Recalled) by Mr. Cooper. 1456 - 3401
Recross Examination by Mr. Lamb 1439 = 3404
Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper. . , 1440 3407
Redirect Examination (Resumed) by Mr. Cooper 1466 - 3486
Redirect Examination (Recalled) by Mr: Nunneley 1490 3058
Doll, James R.—
Direct Examination by Mr. Cooper. 4 13035 SoA)
‘
Fitton, Robert AW .
Direct Examination by Mr. Nunneley ‘8 982 2256
Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb. * ".. 995 2276
Redirect Examination by Mr. Nunneley g9k 2284
?
viii
9 Record ‘Transecri
Fitton, Robert A.—-(Continued) pci! aire
Cross Examination by Mr. Boos ....0000000................ 999 2
Recross Examination by Mr. Lamb . 1000 299
Redirect Examination hy Mr. Pannier eae: 1000. :229
' "Pox, Joseph D.-- '
er Direct Examination by Mr. Couper .0.0000000........1234 2M
(‘ross Examination by Mr. Lamb oer acer 1254 ORT
Harms, Ernest A.— : =
Direct Examination by Mr. Cooper... eee See
Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb |... 1189 271
Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper 22.....0.....5..1207 275
Starner, Carl— °
Direct Examination by Mr. Nunneley ..... ..... uss AOOG* ~~
Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb .......................1064 - 24
Redirect Examination by Mr. Nunneley ................. 1077 247
. . Reeross Examination by Mr. Lamb- ............. eee 247
« Redirect Examination by Mr. Nunneley ..>.-......... 1084 248
Recross Examination- by’ Mr. Lamb... ....1085 24k
Stief, Willard ('.— -
Direct Examination by Mr. Cooper .......... aces 1301: 320i
_Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb |... 2... 1308 20
Trabue, Macon Charles— | -
Direct Examination by Mr. Cooper ............0.............. 1396 | 3
Cross Examination by Mr. ee Aion 334
Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper ........... .....1430 337
Recross Examination by Mr. Lamb... cnet 334
Wright, Pierce E— : ie :
Direct Examination by Mr. iii Pa ee tee tr hasan 1339.3
Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb ................. ..1362 32
Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper _ pec dameeies 1368 324
Steve Anderson: - 929 °
A. No, they didn’t. eee
Q. They could walk as much.as two abreast!
A. I know they could. I havegseen them do it. .
. Q. It would be a tight squeeze, wouldn’t it?
~~ ee. ae De
Q.. After you got to the-end_of that aisle, wotld you-
walk over a bridge across the belt.?: | ee,
A. Yes.
Q. How wide was that bridge? we «
A. About four feet. *’ ts :
Q. About four feet wide. That was about the same
width.as the aisle, was it? . : :
- A. No, it wasn’t as wide as the aisle.
Q. Then after you got over that bridge, then would.
~ you walk along another aisle alongside of the glost load-
‘ing department?
Yes, for about ten feet, I guess. *
That must have beén about ten feet.
. That was about ten feet wide. And how far would
you walk along that aisle? ae, a0
_A.. Oh, it is according. to where I was working. If I
was working on the mangle, I would just walk 10, 15 feet,
and if I.was working on cups, we would just go down
through the trucks-and walk over to where I was work-
ing. ; =
-Q. How far to the cups? ae i
A. About 100 fect, I imagine. ees)
. Q. After you got down. to the end of that aisle, you .
would ordinarily have to make another turn to get back
to your place in the dipping room, would you not, Mr.
Anderson? ;
A. Well, yes, there would be another turn.
Q. There would be another turn?
A. °Yes, just over to the left.
ing’ in hetween machinery?’ 4 —
A.
‘ Q.-. That was a wider aisle?
A. Yes. . 7 ote | |
Q. How wide do you say that was? 8 ns
A. :
Q
‘. No.
_ 330 ee Steve Anderson
Q. ee walked ‘dict down the aisle.
A. Yes.
Q. Well, did you have a-number of work “places it in the |
___-dipping-{ department? How was it set up, was it a line
or a number of workers spread through a certain work-
ing.area, or what?
A. ¥es, there were workers wea on different ma-
chines, you might as well call it, then on other days |.
worked in a different department dipping.
Q. It might be that when you got right to your dip-
ping department then you would have to pick your way
through the spaces‘ between the different machines until
you got to the particular machine you were working on?
A... You could work right over to them.
Q. Between the other machines; in other words, not-
all the machines were right on the aisle, i is that right?
A. What do you mean, the machines?
Q. You spoke of there being work places in thé dip-
ping room, as I understood you, which you said could be
called ‘‘machines*”?
A. Oh, hell, we work all ov er the dipping room, ‘-some-
times we work on tubs out in the middle of the floor.
Q. If you are working. on a tub out in the middle of
the floor, that would mean that, there would be other men
in the dipping department, who would be more or less on
all sides of you, is that. correct?
A. No, it would mean there would. be a * Naa empty
space around you.
. What would be beyond the empty space?
A. Probably: girls brushing, chipping ware.
Q. Is that also in the dipping department?’
- A. Yes; well, it is the dipping a they eal
it the brushing department.
Q. After you got to the.end of the aisle, you would
walk by these girls who were doing the brushing work,
until you got over to the particular place where you were
going to work that morning, is- that right? ”
A. No, you didn’t necessarily have to do that; the
parmsestltreccimfm
> _ Steve Anderson. | | | 531
brushing. girls were working on the left-hand side of the -
department mostly. - |
Q. .1 think it would be clearer on the record if you
would call that north or south?
Aé Well, it would be the south.
Q. On the south side? :
A.. Then on the north side, you say then, is where the
mangles were and the cup machines. :
What was in between there?
A... Well, there was aisles. — eas
-.Q. Yon say on the north side there were mangles, is
‘that right? =,
‘A. Yes. te ;
Q. And on the south side the girls in the brushing de-
partment. ay .
A. Yes. , .
~ Q. Well, in between the mangles and the girls in the
brushing department, were there other machines or other
operations carried on? * * *
A. ‘ No. ' "4
°Q. (By Mr. Cooper): 1 don’t want to mislead you,
Mr. ‘Anderson. You mean that the only thing that there:
was in the dipping department was the mangles and the
girls doing the brushing work?
“A. That is up until about, 1 couldn't say pow long ago,
a couple of years ago, T- guess, they got their spray
machines in. | ar ast Port
Q. Where were the spray machines, were they in be-
tween the mangles and the girls doing the brushing?
A. Well, the first one was over there on the south
side.of the dipping house, that is where the first one was
put wp,.and they put a second one up on the south side of
the dipping house that is where -the girls were brushing,
and then later on they put’ one on the—let’s see, where
did they put the next one—I don’t: know; you have got it
there (indicating map); could you tell me where the next
one_was put: in—anyhow., it didn*t-interferé with our go-
ing in to work. a
—
032 ; + Steve Anderson
> Q About how much space did the eiiatibain take up
in the plant; was it a space as large as this room?
A. | imaginé it is about—it is kind of L-shaped. Take
on the east end itis about 120 feet wide, then it- goes’
down, runs west, I guess, east and west, it goes down
about 100 feet, about the same width, and then it goes out
L-shaped towards the—oh, I don’t know the directions,
south, oh, about, maybe sixty feet—no, ‘it wouldn’t be that
much, about twenty feet, then over, there is another wall
here, about fifty feet; I can draw a picture of it, I can’t
explain it. oo
Q. ‘It was a fairly large areat ;
A. Yes. ‘
Q. And when you got to the dipping department, you -
would walk over to the particular part of ,t where your
operations were going to be carried on tht day, is that
right?
A. Yes, wheré 1 was supposed to work/that day.
Q. Going back to this particular day that I refer to,
Mr. Anderson, let me ask you, it might make the record
a little clearer, can yoy say whether or not the numeral
27 stamped on the time clock card at the extreme left-
hand’ side indicates that that was the 27th day of March,
1941?
A. Yes, I believe it was—it was April, wasn’t it, .
ending April—no, it would be March. 27th, that is right.
ee e- 8
Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Do you remember on that par-
ticular day whether you drove down or rode down. with
one of the other workers, Mr. Anderson? .
A. Yes, I couldn’t say.
Q. You don’t remember what time you arrived at the
front gate that morning?
A. No. 7
Q. I presume you~ don’t even remember what time
you punched the time clock except as itis indicated on
this card, is that right?
A. That is right.
Q. Was there a line of workers at that south time
clock that particular morning? —
Steve Anderson 4 033
A. I couldn’t say. i:
Q. You don’t know whether there was or not?
A. No. fae eee :
Q. What time did the dipping department go to work
that morning? !
A. I couldn’t say unless I looked at it. And, I couldn’t
tell what time they went.to work by looking at the time
card. ° ; ese :
Q. Was there a number of departments that started
- work at seveno’clock. | ‘
* A. I don’t know of any that started at seven.
Q. Do you: know what the usual starting time was, as .
you claim it, for morning shifts? :
“A: Oh, there were different times. Tf we had plenty
of ware we would probably go in at—he would tell us to
come in at fourteen to, and if. we didn’t have a lot of
ware, if we were short of ware for the -glost belt, he -
would tell us to come in at 6:31. ‘
Q. As you stated, the card this morning indicates you
punched. in at 6:49 on March 27. What time would you
say from that-your department started that morning?
A. I imagine we started at 6:46. -
Do you know what_.time the glost belt department
started that morning? ; “s
A. No, I don’t.
Q. By the way, do the people working in the glost -
belt department use the same time clock?
ee Yes. aah ee -
_ Q. Do you know what time the decorating department
started that morning? . ‘
A. No, I don’t. |
-*Q. Did: the people in the decorating department use
that same time clock? oe oo
A. Yes, they did. .
Q. Were there other departments, as a matter of fact,
that used that same time clock? ,
A. No. T-don’t know. T believe, oh, the maintenance,
I think they used it. a
Q. As a matter of fact, weren’t there about six bhun-
dred employees who used the time clock at that time?
«
fee.
534 aes Steve Anderson
(A. They ee have but they didn’t. all. punch in: y :
oncg They were different. |
Q. -And, you don’t know what departments may have
; started at particular times that morning? ;
i A. No, I didn’t.
Q. . You: don’t remember whether there. was a line-up
fiat 1 morning or-nét in front of the time clock?
A. No, I dop’t.
Q. * You were working in the shipping department that
» particular: day, March oitht
A. Yes. ,
Q.. Do you remember eal your operation was that
particular day ?
A. .No, I don’t know whether I way’. working on cups
or flat ware, or colored ware, or what. I don’t know.
Q. As a matter of fact, there. was usually a line-up
waiting to punch. the time clock, was there not; a line-up
at the time clock?
A. At different times, yes, ‘hats was.
" -Q. There were very: likely a number of workers punch-
ing the time clock at “just about the time. you punched it
that morning, and then walking over to their various de- |.
partments, were there not? ;
-A° T imagine there was.
Q.\ And a good many of them followéed this same path
that you described that you followed to get over to the
dipping department.
A. No. The decorators went right straight through.
Q. Oh, the decorators did start work at the same time,
then? ,
A: I don’t know ‘what time they started work. I just
know which way they went to work.
Q. Do you remember whether, when you walked down
this aisle you described, you were by vourself or were
there other workers walking.-there, too?
A. I don’t remember what happened when: I punched
that clock that morning, whether I was around or riding .
a bicycle or what.
Q. Yon think you. mav have heen riding a bieyelet ®
@s
Steve Anderson ~ © .. 030
A. I may have been.
Q. In the plant. You some times would, after you
punched the time clock, get on a bicycle and ride pver to.
the department on the bicycle? | |
A. No. Bias
_Q. .You always walk from the time clock over to the °
dipping department? ee ean
A. Yes. . ‘
Q. And other'employees after they punched the same
time, clock would be walking over to their own depart
ments, would they, not? :
' A. Yes, sir. > fe
Q. As a matter of fact, there was a regular proces-
sion of workers from that time clock going over to their «
respective departments, were there not?
A. There was at different times, yes.
_ Q. -And they just’ walked along and: vou walked along
with the line, is that right? ae
A. Just what do yoy-mean by that? ,
Q. Yites you punched the time clock did you aim to’
outstrip all the others, or would you just walk along with
“the other workers as you walked over fo the dipping de. -
partment? ae 7
A. Wewalked along, but we didn’t saunter along. You |
had to get in there. I imagine I probably had to run in
there that morning. - : .
-Q. Did you say ‘‘Good morning,’” or pass thestime of
day with anybody else?
A. No. ,
Q.. As you walked in?
A. No.
Q.. You don’t mean to say, Mr. Anderson, that after
punching the time clock, you never spoke to the other
workers as you walked along in this procession?
A. -No, you didn’t have time to stop ‘and-discuss the
time of day or anything. If you said, anything you would
‘sav ‘*Hi’’ like that, and keep right on going. |
Q. You want.me to understand that you didn’t have
time as you walked along—you say you might be walking
t
' punched, and your sr,
036 | . . Steve Anderson
two abreast through this aisle; is ‘that right?
A. Yes. —&
Q. Wouldn’t you have time to talk to the fellow along:
side of,you. » —
A. Oh, yes, you would ‘to him. .
Q. ‘Suppose you saw somebedy a little ways behind you
that you wanted to talk to do you mean’ to say you
couldn’t ask.them a question, if you wanted to? oe
A. No, you didn’t dare to stop or anything like that?
Q. Your. claim, then, is that you walked right over to
the department?
‘A. Yes.
Q. As a matter of fact, you don’t baie a6 you,”
whether you talked to anybody that morniug between the |
time you punched the time clock and the time you got to
the department, do you?.
eaey No, I imagine I had to. hurry right vd ‘and — in
there. ‘ f
-Q. Youi imagine that
A. Yes.
:
Q. Is there a wash room between the time clock you -
A. No. : 3. my
Q: You are sure e about that? } don’t want to mislead
a There is one on the other “side. ;
Do you remember whether you stopped in that
washroom that morning?
No.
big don’t remember? -
No, I never stopped that morning.
Yeu never did?
No, sir. &
-Do you wear overalls or an apron?
I used to wear an apron, rubber apron.
When did you put that on?
In the morning. ;
Would you ever turn on any lights after you ret.
to the dipping a
ore Aes ete
Steve Andérson . 837
A. Oh, sometimes. ._”
- Q. Sometimes open “windows?
A. Yes. aaa
The Master: In connection with this apron, when did —
you put it on, after you punched the time clock, or before.
A. Yes, after.J punched the time clock. - When I got
to work, yes- oe a a ce eae
). (By Mr. Cooper): Did you change your shoes, too,
- Mr. Anderson? . ne et
A. No,:sir. ; .
Q. Did you wear any finger cgts or ‘other protective
devices “on your fingers? ay preres
‘A. Well, when my fingers got sore, 1 used to put a
finger cot on. . ag :
When. did you put that on?
A. Oh, after a couple hours. |
. Q- You never. put them on before vou started work-
ing? Hes Uh? . Det ey
A. No—oh, ] wouldn't say I didn’t. no. I probably did.
put one on before | started. | e.
-Q. As a matter of fact, you very frequently did, did
you not? ; ° 7
-" &. No. We got .orders one-time not ‘to wear finger
cots, We couldn't feel the bard and soft pieces of ware.
That wax Mr. Doll’s orders. That was what Ted Roth .
told us. - i ; -
. Can you fix the time and place of that?
A. Oh. that was about three years ago. — 7 F
Q. But after that you continued to put on finger cots?
A. We put them on, yes. When our fingers got bleed
ing, we would have to. 3. ;
Q.. As a matter of fact, vou put on a.finger cot to make |
sure your fingers wouldn’t get sore, did you not?
e° A. No, we didn’t.
- Q. But if it did get sore,‘you would put on a finger
cot? :
A. Sure. ©
Q. Did you ever smear vaseline on your arms?
A. No, never used it. . -
2
wee
538 * eet Steve Anderson
-
°
Q. By the way, do you use a pail’of water sometimes
in connection with your dipping operations? «+
A. Yes,.use quite abit of water. ek:
Q. Would you’ get your own pail filled with water, pr
did somebody else do it for you?
- A. We would use the water we took. off the, top of the.
. glaze in the morning, getting it ready.
Q. After you got over to the departmet, you spent
_ Some time getting the glaze ready?
_ ih Fe. -
Q. You might take a = of water off the top of the
glaze?
A. Sometimes three’ or four pails.
Q. Did you ever walk over to the faucet to get this
pail of water.
A. No, we never had to.
- Q. Some of the other employees 5 did, did they not?
» A. Some of the girls, ves. ‘te
Q. But you never did?’ hes Eup Fe
A. ft wouldn’t say T never did, no. In fact, I went Over
during’ the dav. and got water. has
Q. Asa matter of fact, in the morning, there was
--, voftem a group of people standing around the faucet 7
ting their pails of water, was there not? 2
A. Yes, that is. right.
°Q. Isn’t it true that if there Would be a group wait-
ing to get their pails of water, people waiting to get their
whter would pass the tine of day and say “Hello” to each
other? .
A. They might, J don’t know what they’ said,
Q. That would take a little tinie, too, wouldn t it?
A. . It might. ; a
Q. Going back to this pértionlar morning, how long
did‘it take you after you punched the time clock, to walk
over to the dipping department, if you-can remember?
A. Oh, I imagine it .wouldn’t take a minate.
Q. You think you could walk through these aisleways
that vou described, and through the doors and over the
bridge, in legs than a minute?
sa
:Steve Anderson ; 539
. i. i . «"
_& Ye. * Si tly Oe
Q. You don’t mean: to say you did it in less than a
minute every day do you? eR
_ A. About a minute. — Poa:
-Y% How long would it. take you to put on your apron
and finger ‘cots on this particular day?
A. Well, my aprorf it had a snap on it. All I would
do is just stick my arms in it and snap it in the back and
_ it was on. n ; ; . .
- The Master: Where did you get your upron from? °
A. I bought it uptown. .
_ The Master® 1 mean, when you went in the dipping de-
partment, where was your apron? :
A. Oh, it was hatiging on the poSt where | worked. °
; @. (By Mr. Cooper): As a matter of fact, you can’t
remember exactly how. long it took you on this particular
morning, can you, Mr. Anderson? You don’t know exactly
what time you first staried dipping ware into glaze that
- morning, do you? . Pas aot ve
A. What. morning?® ~ ns
March 27th.
A. No, I couldn’t swear to it.
_ Q. Anything that you would try to tell me in fixing
the tinig would just represent, your best guess, wouldgit
not. eh, :
A. Yes. . . iin
Q. Now, as a matter of fact, the dipping department -
didn’t really get functioning until your group was all
there, ready to go, did it? -
A. Well, I don’t. know whether I worked with the
group: I might have just worked with one girl. ,
- Q. Suppose the girl wasn’t there, you wouldn’t real-
ly get going until she was there, would you? |
A. Oh, no,-I have to get niy glaze réaily. That takes
as high as a half hour. - | ae caine
Q. You wanted to ‘get there in time to have pF ogg
- stirred up.so that you could start production as arly as
‘ possible; I presume? ea
' A, T presume so, ves.
540 . - Steve Anderson r
Q. Because the more pieces you got dipped, . the
greater your earnings were, isn’t that right?
Mr. Lamb: Objection. IT think it is eaaiidaiiin
oe Mr. Cooper: TI think it is proper cross examination. +
The Master: I think it is all right on ‘cross examina-
tion. — °
A. Well, that is one thing I nevér-could find out. I put
out as high as 2,000 dozen cups 1 day, and we were sup-
posed to get paid, I think a dollar a hundred dozen, and
the best I ever drawed was $10 a day.-* *.* >
Q. (By Mr.-Cooper) Do you mean to say, Mr. An!
_ derson—strike that, please. Suppose you were dipping
cups, how many.cups were yéu supposed to dip ina
morning?
*A. Well, to time myself, I dipped a thousand dozen.
+. Q. A thousand dozen?
A. Yes: ,
Q. ‘Well,, suppose that on a particular morning vou
only dipped a hundred dozen,-you wouldn’t earn as much
for dipping a hundred dozen as for dipping a thousand
dozen, would you?
A. No, I don’t believe it, no.
The Master: Didn’t anybody ever tell you when you
were there what your rate of pay was based on?
A. I heard it was a gang rate. How they figured it i a
couldn’t tell you.
The Master: Did you ever ask he’ foreman what the
basis of your pay was?
A. Yes, but he didn’t know. * * *
The Master: You worked there tén years without
knowing what your rate of pay was?
A.. I couldn’t tell within $10 what I was going to draw
on pay day.
The Mastér: Not what you were going to draw, but
they didn’t tell you how much you were going to get for
. & cup turned out, or. some other basis of pay that you
were supposed to be getting? ‘
A. No. T have heard a dozen different rumors. I heard
©
*
"+ Steg, Anderson 41
they used to get $1, and then $1.35; and then I heard we
got 98 cents. I never knew. ; .
The*Master: 98 cents, and $1, and $1.35 for what?
A. For the same ware. Three different versions. * ° °
Q. (By Mr. Cooper, continuing) You say, Mr. An-
ders6n, when you first started to work there was a cer-
tain deduction from the regular base rate? . . |
A. Yes. ; ‘
Q. “That was when you were-learning the trade, was it
not? : z
- A. Yes. ete
Q. And there. were meetings held from time to time
of employees of the company, were there not?
A. Yes. 24h Oe ar a a
Q. Mr. Doll, Senior, would frequently be at the meet.
ings? . st . or
. A. Once in a whilhe would be there.
“ww @
He would quite frequently walk out through -the .
plant, would he not?
A. Yes. . —
Q. Almost Kory day or so, would he not?
-A. Yes, sir, I would see him around there pretty near
‘every day.- " , ' . ‘
-Q. And he would talk to the employees?
A. He never talked to me. 7
-Q. Did you see him talking to ‘any of the others?
A. He ‘would say hello to me,-yes. oat
Q. He would say ‘‘Hello’’. to you. Now, at these meet
ings there was disenssion about conditions in the shop, .
was there not?
, *
tions or complaints, to come right into the superintendent
and make them? .« © : ,
_ A. Yes, we were told that. NESE Ae
*Q. As a matter of fact, you-nevér asked any question
as to the rate at which you were being paid, of the super-
intendent? ees
Q. Isn’t it a fact you were told if you had any ques-°
* . | x X.
542 _ Steve Anderson
A. No. * 2©¢-e8
; Q. (By Mr. pee tae never asked’ Mr. Doll whies
your rate was, either?
Q. As a matter of fact, when you were doing sie
jobs you were paid at a gang rate and on other jobs you
were paid according to what you yourself had done, -isn't
that right?
A. I don’t know. :
Q. How did-the company .determine how many pieces
you made in figuring out how much your earnings would
bet
Mr. Lamb: Objection.
A. That is samething I never could find out.
f\N Q. (By Mr. Gpoper) Isn’t it true, as a matter of fact,
/ that they took your eoint as to how many pieces you had
made?
A. They obviously did.
The Master: They took your own count?
A. Yes. } .
Q. (By Mr. Cooper) And you were paid on the basis
of your own count as to how much work you: had done,
ae that right? 7
“T don't know how they did, how they paid us.
The Master: Did you submit an account every week
to the company ofthe amount of pieces you turned ‘out?
No, every day the girls would turn it in. That is
on-eups. Then on flat work I used to keep track myself
of how many dozens I dipped. -_ -
The Master: And the company took les word on that? .
A. Yes eee
Q. (By Mr. Cooper) And in the case of cups; “the
‘ company took the girls’ count? -
. A. Yes. .
Q. Fmean that in certain types of dipping operations,
you were paid on the basis of a so-called gang rate, and
* OR ‘other dipping operations you were paid on the> basis
of your own individual production, ware you not?
A. Tf don’t’ know whether I was or not.
z Q. And you-'want the Court to believe that you worked
~for The Mt. Clemens Pottery Company for ten years and
‘did not at any time know the rate at which you were being
paid? : i
A. That is right... , -
Q. And you never asked either the superintendent or
Mr. Doll as t6 what that rate was?
» "A, No. ‘ * ;
Q. And it was always just a surprise to you when you
got your pay check, to see’ what it might be? .
A. .Yes, it was. In fact, it was a surprise to all of us.
Q. You didn’t know whether you. were being paid .on
an hourly rate or on a piece rate? — | 6
A. We had no way-of telling, — , ae
-Q. And you didn’t-know how many hours you had
worked? ; woe .
~“ A. That is right . | a -
Q. And you just took whatever was given to you?
A. We had to take whatever was given to us.
Q? Do. you smoke, Mr. Anderson? — ar
A. ' Yes. ;
Q
a
were you not?
the toilet; ves. * * *. est
-Q. (By*Mr. Cooper) In any event, if you did leave
your work place for a few minutes during- the morning,
you wouldn’t punch out, would you?
A. No, sir, that is when we went to the toilet.
Q. What time did you quit work at noon?
A. Oh, different times, sometimes we would quit at five
and then other times we would work until after 12.
off your aprons, I presume? ’
A. Yes. 3 7
'Q. Take off, your finger cots?
. Steve Andersons |. 543
_ As a mattér of fact, you were free to leave your .
‘work place during the morning any time you wanted to, :
‘ 7 : ® ‘
A.- What do vou, mean, smoke? We were free to go to-
minutes to 12, we Would runpalong' like that for a while,
Q. And when you stopped work, you would then take
ot?"
oo ~ Stete Anderson.
A. Yes, take off the cots and run for the elock.
Q. Would you wash up right there?
A. Stick your hands. in the water. ° .
Would the whole dipping department quit work
at the same time?.
A. Well, lots of ‘times they would send thie ee
- girls out ahead of us; T don’t’ sa¥ alk the time.
_Q. Sometimes the whole de partment stopped at once! -
A. Yes.
Q. And you would all walk over toward the time clock?
A. We used to rin; we pretty near knocked Mr. Doll
down one day. —
Q. You were in a hurry to get out. Some days other
departments would be stopping the same time at the noon
*. recess, would they not?
A. No,.as a rule, we got through say before 12 the. belt
would work after 12, that would be so there wouldn't be a.
congestion at the clock.
Q. As a matter of fact, isn’t it true when the whistle o
blew everybody would start right aff for the clock and
there would be a line-up at the clock again?
A. -No, our. foreman even put a bell up in. our depart. —
ment so we wouldn’t quit until he rang the bell; when he
rang the bell. we would go. i
Q. There would be a line-up at the clock as von were
going out? ° : ‘
A.. No, he would ring the bell so thete wouldn’t be a
line-up, he would stand there with his watch. ’
Q. You mean there was never a line-up?
A. I wouldn’t say ‘‘never.’’
Q. Sometimes there was?
A. Oh, yes. ; :
Q. Going back to’ Mareh 27, you wouldn’t remember
whether there was on that day or net? ©
A. I think on March 27, if you look ‘at it close, |
“punched out at 11 something.
The Master: Would you remember whether there was -
a line-up, was the question.
Steve Anderson . 545
A. No, I couldn't say. i F
. (By Mr. Cooper) After you ate lunch you would
come back.to the dipping department again for, the after-
noon’s work,-is that right? ;
“A. No, we would get our lunch and then smoke a
‘cigaret in the dressing-room there, and whatever time the
foreman told us to.go in we would go to the clock and
__ punch in. : >
Q., Yow weren't in any particular hurry, you had time
to eat your lunch and have a smoke and talk a while?
A. ‘Oh, yes. ,
-Q. And then you would ring in and follow the same
path back to, the dipping department that you had followed
-in the morning? | ; ;
A. Yes. i. ;
°Q. And again you wouldn't know exactly how long that
might take you? a
A. Ne, I wouldn't.
Q. And there would be—
“A. (Interposing). What do you mean, how loug it
would take wwe to what, get in?
Q. You don’t know exactly how long it wouldbe from
.the time you punched the time clock on March 27 after
lunch until the time you were dipping cups again? .
A. Well, right offhand J couldn't, say without looking
at the card, I don’t believe I worked in the afternoon, did
I? |
The Master: Exhibit ‘‘LL,’’ I believe.
Mr. Cooper: I had. it. ; ‘
Q. (By Mr. Cooper) The time. clock card indiéates-
you punched in‘at 12:34 that afternoon, does it. not?
- A, Yaa *.°°¢ See . i 5
Q. (By*Mr. Cooper) . Showing you again, Mr. Ander-
son, Exhibit 1-LL, and directing your attention to the
figures appearing in the column on the extreme right-
hand site, you have seen those figures before, have you
not?
A. Yes.
j = ]
.
346 s Steve Anderson
As a matter of fact, every day when you as
the time clock the figure for the preceding day would ®
written in there, would ‘it not?
A. Yes.
Q.—You know what that represented, do you not?
A. Well, it represents the hours the company claims |
worked, but not the hours shown on the time clock.-
Q. In other words, it “doesn’t represent the elapsed
time between the time you punched in in the morning
and punched out after. work, but it indicates the hours
worked? °
Mr. Lamb: Just a second. I. believe—
The Master: He is asking the witness a question.
Mr. Cooper: Just another attempt at telling the wit: |
ness what his answer should be.
Mr. Lamb: What are you trying to tell the aces in
* the question. He says ‘‘in other words it indicatés the
time, you worked.’’
The .Master:. That is a question the witness can answer.
any way he sees fit. Read the question. .
‘(Questicn read by the reporter.)
Mr. Lamb: It is the company’s computation,
The Master: That is a proptr question and the witness
can answer it. Neer
Mr. Lamb: All right, there is an objection to it.
The Master: I will overrule the objection. Will vou
ariswer the question? Do you want it read again? |
A. Yes.
(The question was repeated by the reporter.)
A. No, it doesn’t indicate the hours worked. -
Mr. Nunnelev: Mr. Lamb has testified.
The Master: I frankly think that objection was in * the
nature of testimony. ° eve
Q. (By Mr. -Cooper, continuing): You state, then, Mr.
-Anderson, that this figure over here was only the com-
pany’s compnfation as to the number of hours you worked?
A. . Yes.
Q. How many hours do you claim you actually. worked
on March 27 ?
Steve Anderson 547
A. May I have a pencil?
The Master: What did you say?
A. May.I have a pencil? |
The Master: Yes. (Handing pencil to the witness.)
A. (Figuring on paper):. About 8%4 hours. Maybe !
made a mistake; I don’t know. Just a minute, here—yes,
that is right. ;
‘ Q. (By Mr. Cooper) : Is it your claim, in,other words,
Mr. Anderson, that you start to.work the minute you
punch the time cloek? |
_ A.- Yes, that is what I think. . a
Q. You claim you were working, in other words, when
you were walking along the aisles between the time clock
and the dipping department? ‘
A. Yes. . .
Q. And that if you stopped to say hello to somebody
as you were walking over there, you were working then?
- A. I don’t think T-stopped to say hello to anybody.
Q. You don’t remember whether you did that day or’
not?
A. No, I don’t think IT did. ne!
°Q. You don’t remember whether you did that day or
not? se * # e :
A. I never made it a practice of talking to anybody
-when I went to work. ’
- Q.. But, on that day you are just guessing, aren *t you,
- whether you did or whether you-didn’t? -
. No. T am pretty sure I didn’t.’
How can you remember that particular day?
Well, I can remember as a rule. _ .
Do vou remember what the weather was like that -
Orop
day? .
A. No. :
.. Remember what you were dipping that morning,
whether it was cups or flat ware?
A. No. ° ; e i
Q. But, you remember you didn’t stop to say hello to
anybody as you were walking over there?
A. T can’t remember that I didn’t. I just say as a rule
> ~
548 Steve Anderson
I did not. We just went about our business going to work.
J. You can’t: remember that you didn’t that particu-
lar morning?
A. Well, I am pretty sure I didn’t.
Q: You figure that you were working if you spent a
little time opening windows, or turning on lights? »
Yes, I did.
Putting on»your ie
Yes.
Mixing: up your glost? .
Yes. -
Taking water off it?
Yes.
If you went over to get a pail of water ‘il waited
at the faucet, you figured you were working? .
A. That was my work. ‘Tf the company ‘did not hiave
a big enough faucet for the people to get at, and get bach,
tbat was their hard luck. |
Q. And you figured you were working if you sialon
dipping and took off your. apron’ and xe your, hands
in the department there?
A. I never washed my hands, j just gave thee a rinsé.,
Q.. You figured you were working when you were rins-,
* “ing off your hands? —
A. In fact, I rinse off my hands quite a few times dur-
ing the day, and my face.
Q.:. Well, you figure you were e working when vou rinsed
your hands there? :
erererer sd
A. Yes.
-~"~Q. And when you were ae back out to’ the time
es & clock?
aes
Q. Asa nftter of fact, you don’t know just how long
any of those operations took, do ‘you?
A. Just what do you mean? Wash my hands and face?
Q. Walking over.
A. ‘I washed my face robiaaty every 15 minutes. /
Q. I say, you ¢ don ’t know just how much time‘you spent |
that day walking over from the time clock to your de-
partment over the ‘route you described, and putting on .
= Steve Anderson | | 049
your finger cots, putting on your work apron, turning on
lights if you turned them on; speaking: to other workers
if you spoke to them. :
A. No, I haven’t figured it out. * * °
Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Now, Mr. Anderson, when you
__-were engaged in dipping cups, you worked in teams con-
sisting of a man and three girls helping him; did you not?
iv. xA. Yea. :
| Q And suppose that you stopped to wash your tace
or left your place of operations during’ the morning, that
would slow up the work of the girls somewhat, would it
| not? - tf : - ;
A.. Well, the girls most generally went with us. Well, —
they didn’t go with us, but they went at the same time.
Q. And it they came back a little later, operations
would be pretty slow until the whole gang was back ready
to start, isn’t that right?. :
A. Yes. :
- Q° The same thing would be true in the morning, would
it not, that you couldn’t get going good until your group
was there? + ee es.
A. Weil, our group was always there by the time we
-got ready to go. \ : | 7
Q. You wouldn’t be- ready to start operations until
your group was there, is that right? ; |
/ A. What do you mean, until the girls were all there,
you'mean dip? 3
Q. Going back, I think I asked you whether it was
not a fact that if, say, two of the girls didn’t. show up
some morning, production in your particular group would
be very slow until those two’ girls either arrived or were
weplaced with somebody else, isn’t that true?
A... Well, they would send two girls over right away if
_ they didn’t show up. - : mo
Q. If they could find them, they.would send two girls
to replace the two that didn’t show up’ es
A.” They always had girls to spare, And if we were
short, we washed ware. : \
Q.. If one of the girls that morning did not punch in .«
| until 6:59, probably operations would be held up & little
| bit until she was there? .
900 ©. Steve Anderson
y Most likely I ‘would be washing’ ‘wear until they.
gt im. .
Q. You. might be washing wear?
A. Yes. ; 5 Sag fou
Q. But so far as dipping goes, you probably’ really
wouldn't get started dipping until that gir! got over, there,
would you?
A. No, but I would be working just the same.
Q. Now, I have asked you a number of questions re.
lating to just “what you did on Mareh 27, 1941. Wouldn't
it be true that if I took, say, the next day, and asked you
those same questions about just what vou did after you
punched the time clock, your answers would be the same
for the next day as for that particular day?
A. Yes, I imagine it ‘would be. ;
Q. In other words, you can’t distinguish between, days.
but you are Just av eraging’ things up and giving us your
hest guess? .
A, Yes.
Q. Do you eemember how. much: money you waren .dur-
ing the year 1938, Mr. Anderson? ,
‘A. No.
Q. Showing you Exhibit 2, pointing out a you a figure
. written in pencil, at the bottom of this column headed:
‘*Social Security Deductions,’’ the figure being $2,282.23,"
does that refresh your recollection as to what your. annual
earnings were. .
A. I imagine | made about that much.
Q. (By Mr. Cooper) : And would vou say, Mr. Ander-.
son, that in the vear 1939 vour annual earnings were ap-
proximately $2, 400?
A. Yes, I imagine so.
Q. Would you say for the year 1940 your actrfal ear-
ings were approximately two thousand three hundred and
some-odd dollars?
A. This is it here ( indicating) ? Yes.
_ .Q. You think that is about what you earned during
the year?
Steve Anderson 51
A.. That must be it because it is on there. 1 wouldn’t —
say-it wasn’t. 1 wouldn't swear it was. se
Q. As a matter of fact, your average rate of earn-
ings were a dollar an hour or better during all hat tume,
weren’t they? — ; .
~A.° Yes, T imagine so: It went as high as $1.40, 1 be-
Relea _ | | )
.Q. (By Mr. Cooper): .How frequent were your pey-
days, Mr. Anderson? - 3
A. ‘Every other Friday.
Q. Each pay would cover a two-week period, is that
right? a
A. Vou : ‘ : ,
Q. ‘Does Exhibit 2-A refresh. your recollection on the
question as te whether or rot’in the year 1939 you had
a pay ending August 8? 7 aoe
A. 1 ecouldn’t say for sures} imagine I did. e
Q. And another pay ending two weeks later, on Au.
gust 22?
A. Yes, ] imagine so. ~ ty ~
Q. And.apparéntiy on that pay you received $102.451
A. Yes. ihe ile
Q. And then again on September 9, 1939, you had an- -
other pay? A . ;
A. -I] guess so, yes.” a,
Q. In between those two, and on August 25, 1939, you
also received money aggregating $43.89, did vou not?
A. Yes, I guess so. +:
Q. Now, that didn’t represent payment ‘for work per-
formed between August 22 and August 95,.did it? °° °
A> Three days—I don’t know; say, maybe that was
our share inthe earnings they told us so much about.
Q. Yes, as a matter of fact you got that as extra com:
pensation, didn’t you? |
Mr. Lamb: Just a second, an objection.
A. I wouldn’t know. ones ar ©
The Master: You are speaking ‘‘you got a share in the
*
7
552 i | Steve Anderson
earnings as extra compensation, ”’ or that particular
amount, compensation? . at
A. Was that when I was on my vacation?
The Master: Did you-get a share in the earnings from
time to time?
A. That is what Mr. Doll said it was; he didn’ ; wait
to call it ‘“‘bonus.”’ - *
The Master: It was a rawr thiat” was ik addition to
“your regular pay checks? “ea
7 Yee CO
‘i he-.Master : tee time?
A.: Yes:.
The Masters< Die you ‘get one in a: This is in
“August. e
A. It might bien” been when I had my—Xa ation,
don’t know. he
Q. . (By Mr. Cogper) : i a "matter of. fact,. you re-
ceived payments approximating .two weeks’ wages or
better, in addition to vour regular earnings, did you not?
* ¢ 8
The, nahi I will make this ruling on the record.
This i is a matter that is in issue, and the question is ‘as
to whether the evidence should be taken, and that de-
pends, of course, partly upon’ whether the law is that the
—- ean set off vacation payments and bonus pay-
m
s, or payments of. that character against overtime
work, if it & found by the court that overtime was worked,
which was not compensated for at the rate prescribed.
Mr. Lamb. has cited Administrator’s Rulings which
seem definitely to state that such set-off is not ‘permis:
sible. *Mr. ‘Cooper has cited one Wisconsin case whi¢h I.
have not read. and has said he has other citations on the
- subject and also argument. to make upon. it.
Under the Federal rulé which T just quoted, the evit
- donee is to be taken: unlegs it. clearly appears that it is
not adinissible. This does not seem to be evidence of a-
character that will take a-great deal of time to take it.
and therefore I will rule that the evidence shall be -taken
subject to the objection, and after the case is submitted.
counsel can submit briefs and arguments upon the ques-
tion of whether or not such set-off is permissible. * * *
>
P Steve Anderson — * 553
“February 19, 1942
._.™
ST EVE“ANDERSON, thovensen resumed the staid as
“witness hereim, and having , been previously duly
sworn, tebitfied partner: as follows: .
- ra
The Master: All right, go dient, Mr. Cooper. ‘3
Before we proceed I would like ‘to ask two or three
questions here to get this testimony straight.
Did I understand you to say ‘when you came in the
‘morning to the plant there was usually a- _— -up in front
of the time clock? :
The Witness: -Oh, I never matieed when I came to the
plant. You see, the time clocks are down from the dress-
ing room.
‘The Master: Weil, when you got baters the time clock,
in the morning to check im, was there usually a line- up?
The Witness: No. There were probably three or four
waiting, Of course, if | came in ‘what they call late, there
would be. a line-up. |
| The Mastef: I beg your aan
The Witness: Sometimes when I would be late there
would be. another shift. :
The Master: How was that worked? What time was
the time clock open if the shift staried according | to the
company at 7 o’clock? —
The Witness: The time clock was never locked or any-
thing: it was always open.
The Master: Was there a forenran standing ‘there in
frint of it, or some watchman?
The Witness: There used to be a watchman .over there,
tut he was never there at any specified -time.
The Master: Could you go through at any time you
came? - ‘ ih hy
rd
s
- 554 a Steve Anderson
- The Witness: Oh, you didn’t want to get caught going:
through at any, time you game.
The Master: If the company said that the shift is to
. begin at 7 on a particular niorning, could you get there at
6:30 and punch the time clock at that time? oe
The Witness: No. ° : ies
The. Master: When could you first punch it?
The Witness : If they said to, be anes at 7—they never
told us—
The Master (Interposing) : If. de shift, according tu
the company’s idea of what a‘shift ig started at 7, what-
time could vou be theres What time mnuld you punch the~
time clock then?
' The Witness: You couldn’t wisi it until they told
you to.
The Master: Well, what time did shifts normally start
there in the morning? '
The Witness: They started from about 6: 31. on.. If
.. they told you to puneh i in at 6:31 andyyou punched in at
6 30, the foreman would be right over ‘there to raise the
devil.
‘The Master: Did the foreman tell you from ‘day to day
when to. punch in the next day?
The Witness: As a rule, ves. He would come along
and sometimes we would run .probably a week or so—he
would say punch‘in at 14 to until I give you further no-
tice.
The Master: Well, then, suppose Se said to ieaih in®
at 14 to. Suppose you came at 15 to; what would happen! -
The Witness: What do you mean, 15 to? They would
raise the very devil. They would likely give you the week
off.
The Master: Would you be ‘able to punch the ‘dock at’
that time, 15 minutes to the hour, if you were to come
at 14 to? ai
The Witness: No.
The -Master: Was there somebody ee to prevent
von from doing it? .
+
s
m . ' -
; Ne ,
e
Steve Anderson . __ = 555
. The Witness : No, there was nobody there.
The Master: It was just-you-knew you weren't sup-
posed to do it, and didn’t® ~. ° ;
The Witness; Yes. .
The; Master: Did your whole* department punch the
_time clock as a unit at one time? Be :
The. Witnggp No. Sometimes we did and then most.
generally the ishing. department would be behind on
wear so they would go in ahead of sus. They would go
in probably 15 minutes before we did. is
‘The Master: When your department would go in, did
you all go in together? Was that the custom? |
The Witness: Yes. y.
The Master: And separately from tife other depart-
ments? Mm =e:
The Witness: Yes. ¢
The Master:. Well, how many were there in your de- .
partment altogether? p
~The Witness: Oh, I should a about 75, 1 imagine. |
he Master: Now, when 75 men, got there, men and
women got there 14 minutes/to 7:00, how long would
it take you to get through the time clock and all of you
get punched in? .
The. Witness: Oh, I imagine it wouldn’t take over at
the -most a couple of minutes. | > .
The.Master: Do you know, after your departme went
in, as to whether there was another departmenr w iting
there to go in?
. +The Witness: Oh, yes. ;
- The Master: Immediately after you got through?
The Witness: The packing shed used fo go in after we
did. What time they punched in, T don’t know. £
~The Master: It took you about two. minutes: to punch
in, and then you stated the other day as to how long it
took. you from the time—that is, T should say it would
take 2 minutes for the whole department, you estimate,
to punch in, and how long did you say you thought it
would take to walk from the clock after you pad punched
in to your particular aay at }
®
» |
556 | ~ Steve Anderson
The Witness: It would be less than a minute, Ti imagine.
The Master: What was this department that _ hed
in after you did? | >
The Witness: The packing shed. & One Xi
The Master: The packing meat . i
The Witness: Yes.
The Master:- Do you inaie if any other departments
punched in after they did? : . *.
~ . "The Witness: 1 couidn’t tell you. . . =
The Master: Go ahead, Mt. Cooper. |
Cross Egamination .(Continued)
By Mr. Cooper : Ai.
Q. I presume you knew most of thespeople who worked
in: the Shipping department?
_ A. Well, yes, 1 knew quite a few of them.
*Q. You were good friends with a lot of them, weren't .
you?
Ay Yes. ;
Q. . And as you told me‘ the other day, you would fre-
. quently get down to the pam before quarter to seven in
the morning?
A. Yes. :
Q. And you would sit around and spend the time of
day ta ing?
A Dee
Q. I suppose you would teondantty sit around with
people you knew in the Dipping department, and sperd
the time of day talking? .
A. I would sit around with a few of them; yes.”
Q. And after the time clocks were opened, you would
go through and punch the time clock?
A. What do you mean, after they were opened?
Q. Well, suppose that you got there at 20. minutes to °
7:00, could you have. gone through the time clock at that
time? ‘ 7 P se 4
A. No, we cBuldn’t. ies *
2 No.
. Not unless. we were teld to.
1
° &
a
vw, . ag
ey \
. Steve Anderson | Sl Aa
Q. It wasn’t yntil the scien opened the clocks,
so to speak, that you could go through, was a
A. I don’t, know what you mean by that, opening the-
clocks. - .
Q. Where would the watchman stand up-until 14 min-
utes to 7:00? »
A. Qh, he might be ddwn by the clocks and he might
be some place else.
- Q.. As a matter of fact, ‘Hie was posted there mostly
to keep order, was he not?
A. Yes, I guess he was.
Q. It wasn’t the foreman of your department, was it?
A. Well, the ‘foreman of our department, he was
standing around there quite a bit. Quite a few ‘of the
other foremen were standing around there sometimes.
Sometimes they would be in their departments, toot
‘AY Yes.
_ Q He was ordinarily, was he not, a sort.of a wateb-
man who would be standing near the time clock?
‘A. Yes, I guess there was.
Q. You knew you -couldn’t ring in at the time check
any earlier than 14 minutes to 7: 001 ;
A. * That is right.
Q. When it came time ‘to ring in at a time clock,
you would go and pick your time elock card ‘out of the
‘rack, would you not? :
A. Yes.
Q. -It would be in a numbered slot, would it?
- A. Yes.
~Q. You would find it that way?
2
Q. And. there would be, -I suppose, about 20. people
getting’ out their clock cards at about the same time, would
there not?- ; on .
A. There. might be, yes. © ?
Q. Tf your’ claim is that all your ener’ went in
. at once?
A: If they all went in at once, yes.
Q. Or didn’t ‘they necessarily all go jn at once?
A. No, ma didn te ar ‘
558 | | Steve Anderson |
Q. They would be more or less: strung out over a period
of ints’
A. I guess so, yes.
. As a matter of fact, sometimes people working in
the glost ‘belt department would be punching in at that
«same time clock, just about the same time the boys in
your department were going in, would they?
_A. Sometimes they would, yes.
-Q. In other words, sometimes they could punch in at’
i4 ininutes to 7:00 as well as your department coulil’
A. heanstines, as ‘a rule, yes. They would let the men |
punch in and make us punch in according to where our:
ware was.
Q. And sometimes the glost warehouse would be per.
mitted to punch in at that 14 minutes to 7:00, too, would
they not? e
A. The glost warehouse?
Q. Yes, don’t you have | a department there by that —
name ? ae
A. No, I don’t know of a glost warehouse. ot
Q. Maybe’ I.can get a. better name for it. Would the
term ‘‘glost ware room’ ’ straighten it out; do you know .
what the glost ware room wast
A. I don’t remember a name lite ‘that.
Q. Do you know af the chippers?
”
A. Yes.
Q. The chippers sometimes would start going in at .
14 min tes to 7:00, would they not? Pe
A. I wouldn't say they did; I imagine they did some-
times.
Q. Do you have any idea how many employees there
. were working along this glost belt?
A. No.
Q. Don’t know whether there were 50 or 100?
A. No, IT don’t.
Q. Have no idea at all?
A. No, -°
Q. Do you have any idea. how many: chippera there
Steve Anderson 559
‘\ AY No, I don’t have an idea of that, either. |
All you would know wou!d bé on these certain morn.
ings there would be more persons than the persons in your
dipping department taking out their time clock cards and
ringing in? |
A. IT never noticed what was behind me, or anything
like that. |
Q. You never noticed what?
A.. What was behind mé. 5
‘Q.. Well, did you notice who was ahead. of yout
A. Yes.
Q. Would there be people working ihgthese other de-
partments just ahead of you at the time ‘Net sometimes ?
A. Yes, when .I came in supposedly late [suppose
there was. f
Q. But’ you usually didn't’ come in later than 6:46,
did you?. a
A. ‘Sometimes | came inat 7:01.- ‘
Q. Sometimes vou came in just at 7:00, didn't yyut
A. ‘Sometimes, yes: I wouldn't say just at 7:00.
Q. You wouldn't say you didn’t?
A. No, f inight have been late, pr something like that. —
Q. You don’t really know then how many employees
may have been punching in at this time clock between
14 minutes to 7:00 and. 7:00 then?
A. No, the only thing IT knew is I would say ‘*what |
time did you punch in,’’ aid somebody would say ‘s7 31,”
ér “6:14,"" or something like that.
Q. As a matter of fact, there may have been 4s many
as-two or three hundred in the glos{ belt dipping denart-
ment, the decorators, and the other departments, all going
through that same time clock then beween 14 minutes to,
7:00 and’ 7:00, wouldn’t there. i
A. I don’t think eo.
Q. Do you think that employees working along the
glost belt department go in between 14 to 7:00 and 7:00?
A. T couldn’t say. .
Q. You just said a little while ‘ago, if I understood
you correctly, sometimes they did?
| ,
560 Steve Anderson .
A. Which morning do- you meant
Q. I am not. talking about any particular morning;
were there some mornings when they did? ~ '
A. I don’t just know what you mean by that; I imagine
there were mornnigs when they came in at 14 to, yes.
Q. You imagine there were mornings when they came -
in at 14 tof
A. Yes.
‘Q. It might have been on the same mornings that vou
came in at 14 to, is that right?.
A. Well, it might have been.
Q. Of course when you say ‘‘came in at 14 to," vou
don’ mean that you rang the time clock at exactly 14
minutes to 7:00, do you?
A. No, you couldn't punch at exactly 14 to, no.
Q. You couldn't all punch at the same time?
A. No.
Q. As a matter of fact, if you had a group. of em-
ployees picking out their time clock eards and then in-
serting them in;the time clock, what would you do, pul! a
lever after vou had your card in?
A. This watehman vou are talking ro is standing
there pushing the lever; all we do is drop the ecard in
and he would push a lever and sa¥, ‘‘Come on, come on,
come on;’’ I think iT you look at some of those cards you
will see my time clock card was ‘way down before it was
punched.
Q. And then you would pull the card out of the elec
again? ;
A. Yes.
Q. And then weet you put it back in the sanie rack?
-A. No, keep right on going and the, Tack is. on the
other side of the clock.
Q. You would go over on the work side of the’ clock.
so to speak, and would vou just throw the card down or
would there be a particular card slot?
‘A. No. Just a slot you put it in.
Q. And I suppose: the greater number of employees «
who were coming in on anv particular morning. hetween
. me ~
Steve Anderson -t 361
14 minutes to ‘7:00 and 7:00, the more time they would .
take before they could all get through the time clock there,
isn’t that right? ; :
A. The company generally arranges so that. they
weren’t there all at once.
>Q. Well, you just said, as IT understood it, you didn't
know what time any of these other departments did come?
A. I know what time the glost belt used to come.
Q. ‘You do know what time the glost helt used to come ;
what time did it come? * * *
A. Well, some mornings the, wonld pass before. we
did, and other mornings they would pass after we did.
** @
(There was an intermission taken while the Mas-
ter and Counsel tor the parties were conferring
with Judge Picard.) soy |
The, Master: I ‘think I had better state on the record,
what has transpired here“The parties can make any cor-
rections they wish, objections, or any other’ statement. they
| ; :
_ This case was referred. to me by Judge Picard, and
the question arose as to the method of my compensation.
I work strictly on a fee basis and must pay office expenses ,
and have something left over for myself in cases on an
average in‘order to subsist. And, I took the question of
fees up with the attorneys at the outset, with a view to
getting in a practical arrangement, and if possible, getting
compensated on account from time to time during the
course of the trial. . ; .
Tt looked as though it might get into a very long trial,
the way it was proceeding, if we proceeded in accordance
with, at least, the. way the defendant believes is the prop-
er method of proceeding and I: believe the trial would
run. into. months.
oe has heen able to put up an amount of,
Money equal to. T understand, $300, to defrav their 50
per cent of the compensation of the Master, each side |
paving 50 per cent in.the first instance. I have stated to
the parties that T think in a case of this type I ought
oe ® . %
362 - . Steve Anderson — rq
to get compensated at the rate of approximately $40 each
full working day. A large part of that goes to office ex.
-penses, and I often'do a great deal of work in a case
that I do not directly charge for.
‘That is just by way of background to explain what has
come up. a
I have taken the matfer up with Judge Picard as to the
length of time the trial is likely to take, and whether any’
measure’ could be taken’ to short-cut it, and the parties
have been. participating in one or two conferences with
Judge Picard on that question: one, in particular, whic’:
just ended.
Judge Picard heliev®s that the. trial can be very greatly
shortened and has in fact stated that he doesn’t see why
it should take over a week to try the issues in this case.
“i * es
The Master: Then we have those four issues. Are there
any others? That is, ‘the 56 minutes per day, or some such
amount, extra time worked, as shown by the time clocks,
which was not computed by the defendant in paying the
men. Second, charity work.. Third, the payment of the s0-
‘called invisible man. And, fourth, unauthomzed deduce. .
tions for equipment that the employee had to buy from the:
employer.
Mr. Lamb: That is right. * * *
Q. Steven, I show you Exhibit 1-J, for identification,
same appearing to be your time clock card for the
pay ending October 29, 1940. Looking at that, can you |
state what time your department began to work that week
(handing exhibit to witness) ?
A. I siarted work at 6:51; 6:51.
Q. Can yuu answer the- question, what time did your
department start to work that week?.
A. No, I couldn’t. of
Q. -You don’t know when your department started to ;
work?, :
A. No.
QQ It certainly didn’t start to work at 6: :46, did itt.
°
‘2
+
2
- Steve Anderson _. 563
Well,. I didn’t.
You didn’t?
‘ No, not if I punched i in at 6:51, | didn’t. . .
’ You don’t have any idea from that, whether your »
department was supposed to have started at 6:31 that
morning or a quarter to 7 or 7 319, or when it was sup-
‘posed to start? .
A. I imagine it started at 6 46.
Q. “You think your Poe cdcneed as ut 6 46 that -
week? | :
A. Yks.
Q: In-other words, you could,punch in as early as 6:46
ip the morning? =~
Yes, sure. : :
You know Rita Schulte? ; '
No. I don’t know her personally. I have seen her.
Would you recognize her?
Yes. I would recognize her.
What department does she work in?
You got me. I don’t know.
Does she » work near Earl Trombley in the glost
Bzerer
; BS
borererierercrers
—.
I. don’t know cise she does or not.
Do you know Ear! Trombley! -
Yes, I know Earl. '
Do you know where he, worked?”
He worked on the glost belt. _
Did you hear him testify that Rita Schulte worked
right close to him?
A. I heard him say she worked on the belt, but I don't
‘know whether she does or not. I imagine she does.
Q. You imagine.she does. She probably is in the glost
_ belt department herself, thes ?
A. I imagine she is. If he said sbi is, she probably is.
Q. Showing: you Exhibit 5-HH, what. time would that
indicate that the glost belt department started operating
for the pay ending October 29, 1940 —— exhibit to
witness) ?
A. Well, it indicates on the card 6:46.
‘ a
564 Steve Anderson
Q. In other words, the same thing as the dipping de-
partment? \
A. Yes. . \
Q. Do you ‘know Kar! Trombley?
A. Yes. |
Q. What maine did he work int
A. In the glost. . ;
Q. Showing you. ‘Exhibit 3-HH, to rues your recol
lection, what time. would you say the glost department
started that morning, that-week (handing exhibit to wit.
ness)?
A. Well, I don't know: what time they started. He
punched in at 7:12 atid 6:46 and 6:31. [ couldn’t tell by
that what time they started.
Q. He was working in the same department as “Rita
Schulte you said?
A. Yes. -
Q. Well, if he was working in the same deperimg
and the department started at 6:46 for Rita Schulte,
_ probably started at 6:46 for Earl .Trombley? .
A. No, I don’t think it is fair to mean that.
Q. In other’ words, the fact. that the time clock wa:
open at 6:46, didn’t mean that everybody. in the depart.
ment would be getting in there?
No, it doesn’t mean that.
Do you know Mrs. Lillian Socia?
Yes. :
What department does she work int
' She works in the dipping house.
Weill, then, inasmuch as the dipping department
started work at 6:46 the week ending October 29, 1940,
according to your ‘testimony, that was presumably the time °
. she was supposed to be there that week?
A’» I think I testified we didn’t all go in at once; I
think ¥ testified the girls would éome in sometimes fifteen
minutes garlier than we did, and other times J would go
into a different department, I wouldn’t go into the dipping ’
FOrorep
‘
Steve Anderson a . “» §& |
house. They had tubs over in where the liner work was,
the decorators work, and T would work over these on blue
. ware. ee
| As, vou testified—well, do you say now that you
don’t know from looking at your elock ‘ecard and. Lillian
Secia’s clock card what -time the .dipping department
opened up that week? : a
A. I could guess at it, yes.
Q. But you wouldn't know? | .
A. No, I wouldn’t know. ~ ale
Q. What would your guess be?
A. What time the rest went in? IT would say 6:46 on
this. ecard here (indicating). | -
—Q. Well, what would you say in &xhibit 71
A.. Well, that is 6:32.
Mr. Lamb: Exhibit 7?
Mr. Cooper :. Exhibit 7. . a.
A. 6:33, 6:35,1 would say they started here 6:31.
Q. (By MrCooper) . Do you mean that Lillian Socia
came in at 6:31 that day? eA ;
_ A. No, you will have to ask her what time she came in;
_ I don’t know. | :
Q. You don’t know what time yo
either, do you? ana
“A: Well, I imagine I came in at the time the card says
there, yes. mea ae
Q. And as far as you know the dipping department
that week started, as vou say, at 6:46?
A™ Well, as faras I can get it from the card, yes.
_Q. And the same thing was true that week. of the glost
belt department?
A. Which card is that? Let me see them again. No,
this one probably came in at a different time, ft don’t know
what time the belt came. He came in at different times
after 7—6:31, 6:49, 6:31, I don’t know what—
Q. You don’t know what time he started?
A. No. ;
u’came in that day
/
a * 1+ « Steve Anderson
ce, "From Rita | Schulte’ s card, Exhibit 5-HH, showing
punches in at 6:46 and 6:47 on various mornings, you
‘would say that that week—would you say in that week the
girls on the glost belt were coming in at-the period he-
tween 6:46 and 7?
A. I wouldn’t: say the girls, I would. say Lillian, she:
‘.was; I don’t know if the other girls were.
Q. You don’t. know whether the ee had a
‘regular opening time or not? -
A. What do you mean? |
Q. .1 say you don’t know now whether’ there was a
‘time when the people in the glost department were. sup-
posed to come in, or whether they weren’t?
-A. As I said before, they came in at different: times. .
'.Q. You mean anyone could come in any time any day,
or was there a time when that- department was supposed.
to start; that is what vou said a while ago?
A. No, I don’t think I said when they were or
to start.
Q. Now: vou say they weren t aneipueed to atart at : any
particular time, do you?
—No, tort say that.
Lamb: You are getting it all tangled up.
A.’ T said they came in at various times.
Q. (By Mr. Cooper) _ Various departments came in at
various times? ;
A. Yes.
-Q. And you said the weex ending October 29, 1940,
your dipping department sta ted at 6:46? 7
~ A. Let me see the card. again.
a ‘(Handing card. to the witness).
_ A. (After examining eard.) Ti imagine it was supposed
to, yes.
’ -Q.° And as. far as ‘you can. tell trots Exhibit 5-HH,
Rita Schulte’s eard, ‘the girls in the: glost ware depart-
ment could punch in that week at any. time between 6:46
and 4 is that. right? ;
7
‘Steve Anderson S . 567
7 A. “All I know is what that card says; I don’t know, |
about the other girls.“ :
Q. Can you answer the question? * * *
1 guess they could, she did. ae
(By Mr. Cooper) Do you know Leo Stafford!
Yes. < ay :
What department was he working in?
The packing shed, I guess. ,
In the packing shed? — |
Packing department I guess they call it.
. Looking at Exhibit 8 for identification, the clock
-eard of Leo Stafford, for the week ending October 29,
1940, would you say that employees in the packing shed
_were, permitted to punch in fhe time clock. between’ 6 :46
and 7 that week?
A. Yes, they punched in after we did, I guess.
Q. Between 6:46 and.7 o’clock? ,
A.. Yes. : %
‘The Master: Let me see that.
* (Exhibit handed to the Master.)
Q. (By Mr.Cooper) Now, it is a fact, isn’t it, that
employees in the packing shed and in the brushing and
ererorer
dipping department and the glost belt*.all punched that.
. same time clock?
A Ok ae : ;
Q. As a matter of fact, if you weren’t permitted to.
_ enter the factory building at all until 7 o’clock, you
couldn't have got in as much time dipping, could yout
A. Probably worked us later at night.
\Y. Supposing you couldn’t get into the building uatil
7 in the morning, and you were compelled: to be out of
there clean and away at 4 o’clock, you couldn’t have got-
ten in as much dipping in between, could you?
AL As what? ware
Q. As if you were permitted to enter some time between
14 minites to 7 and 7 o’clock, and leave some time be-
-tween 4 o’clock and 14 minutes after 47
>
““
?
‘m. lileve Anderson
.
A. No; I don’t imagine you could.
Q. Steve, showing you Exhibit 1-D, your time ard for +
‘the pay ending December. 31st, 1939, that indicates, does
‘ it not, that yoy worked on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday
“and Saturday in that week (handing exhibit to. witness)!
-A. ‘Yes, I guess it does. * * °)
Q. (By Mr. Cooper, continuing) In other words, those
were the only four days you worked during that two-week
pay period? '
A. December?
Q. Does Exhibit 1-D indicate ta you that those four
dats were. the only days you worked - ‘during ‘that pay
‘period?
A, Yes, | imagine it does.’ tials
Q. (By Mr. Cooper) Showing you Kaxhibit 2A, does"
that refresh your recollection as to whether on December
_ 26th, 1939, you received a pay of $831
‘A Not for four days’ work.
Q: No, this was going back to December 26th, that
would cover the preceding two weeks?
A. Yes.
Q. And then on December 31, 1939, you got another
pay of $36.697
A. Yes. .
Q. Covering, according to the company’s Tecords, 30}.
. hours work? a
A. Yes. - a
Q. Between December 26th and —— 31st?
a Tea. * .
Q. On this same day, December 31, 1939, gente also re
ceived a check for $47.80
A. Yes; a-bonus check, yes. ¢
Q. Showing you Exhibit 2 2-A, does ‘that indicate to you
that for the two weeks’ pay ending, August 8th, 1939, you ©
earned $99.42? .
A. Yes.
Q. And that then for the next two weeks ending August
22, 1939, you earned $102.45? .
A. Yes.
Steve Audetecn ie . 569
| “9, * iad were credited with having worked’ 8654 bonis .
during that two weeks?
A. Yes.
Q. And then on August 25, 1939, that nub be. just.
three days lattr, wouldn't it?.
A. Yes. “ia
Q. You were, = $43.89 7
A Yes. .
Q. And that wasn’t pay: for work done between August
2nd and August 25th, so far-as you can tell, was. it?
A. It Was a vacation check, I guess.
Q. As a matter of fact, you didn’t do any work be-
tween. that pertod of August 22nd dnd August 25tht et ria
, . 2
Februa ry 20, 1942.
y ,
‘ §8TEVE AN DERSON, thereupon cia the stand as
a witness on behalf of the Plaintiffs, and being
previously ‘duly sworn, testified futher as follows:
r
s . Cross Booniaction (Continued)
By Mr..Cooper :
Q. I show you, , witness, Exhibit 1-JJ. That is your
,time card for the pay efding February 25, 1941, is it not
"(handing exhibit to witness)? |
\
A. —
Q. Now, the first morning in that pay period the dip-
ping department started at 6 46, is that .right?
A. I imagine so, yes.
' Q. And the second morning, was that a morning when
the department started at 6:46, too? * * *
A. T imagine’ so.
Q. And the next morning a 6461
A. I imagine so, ves.
i
370 : Steve Anderson cs
Q. And then .on Monday was: 6 46 again the starting
time?
A. I imagine so. ast )
Q. And the next day what was the starting time of the
dipping department? -
A. - F imagine 6:32. . aes
-Q. And the nextday— * . > i
~ A. (Interrupting) Or 6:31.
Q. (Continuing) What was. the starting time of the .
dipping department? ‘
-A. 1 come in at 8:39. I don’t know what time.
Q. You don't know what time the department started
_ that day? : ¥ -
A. No.
Q. On this day you punched in at 8:39 the department
might have started at 6:31 or 6 46, ‘is ‘that right?
A. It could be possible. —
Q. You think the department might have started at
8:45 that morning? ;
*A. No; I could have had the day off that day and they
came and got me.
Q. As to that day, fou just don’t know? ;
A. That happened quite frequently when I had a ro
off they would rome and get me. Some of the other dip-
pers. would be sick.
Q. And, as to that day, you don 't know ere what the
starting time waa for the dipping department?
A. No, I wouldn’t know...
Q: Now, the next day, what was thé starting time for
thé dipping department?
A. I imagine 6:46.
Q. You say you imagine 6:46? .
A. Yes. From what I can make out on the eard there.
T couldn't swear by looking at a card two-or three years
ago what time the ‘department started that morning. |
Q. Well, it’ wasn't the time when the department
started at-7:01, was it?
A. I wouldn’t know that.
Steve nw 3 . ' 871
/ oe
- Well, | think you testified yesterday - “that you
* couldn't punch in before starting time?
A. Some mornings I was ordered in ahead of the rest
of the depar tment. .When | would be working on the
colored ware, and we would be a little short on ware there,
| would go in 15 minutés before the rest of our depart-
ment would go in.
Qs, Well, do you mean to say now that the department
didn’t have an established starting time?
A.. Well, for the majority they did, but on occasions
such, as I just told you about.
Q. If you punched i in at 6:46, or shagiliy thereafter, that
would mean that the starting time for the major ity of that
department that day was 6:46, would it not? - |
A. It might be 6:46, but if this was one of the times
when the foreman told me to come in earlier, the depart-
ment might start at, say, 7:01, 15 minutes later.
. Q. In other words, you say now the department didn’t
come in as a group?
A. No, sometimes, ds I said, they would have some of
_us come in-earlier and some of the times the brushing girls
- would come in 15 or gometimes as high as half an hour
earlier, than the dippers.
Q. Well then, on any of the aden shown on this Exhibit.
1-JJ, you didn’t observe, as far aS you can recall now,
* when the other people in the dipping department did come
2 int, P -
A. No, I couldn’t recall now, no. ;
Q. You wouldn’t know when they came ir
& Be, .
Q. Yor’ do ei though, that they didn t all. come. in
at 6:467.
A. I couldn’t swear to that,’ either:
Q. You know at least that you didn’t?
‘A. That I didn’t.
~Q. Come in at 6:46 every day shown on the clock card,
* Exhibit 1-JJ? °°
. : om Steve Anderson
A. No, not every day,
Q. As a matter of fact, it is true that there is only one.
day on there when you did come if at 6:461
A. Yes, that is right.
Q. But you think so far as you can recall that on those
days when you punched in at 6:46 or 6:52 or 6:48 or 6:45,
that the majority of the department wax permitted to come
in at 6:46 on that day?
- A. Yes, as far as 1 know, yes. ‘
Q. Showing you Exhibit 1- H, your time cloek card ford:
the week ending Navember 26, 1940; as far as you can’.
tell, what was the time the Sere department started
in it morping?
. T_can tell what. time tiated | .
° You can tell what time sou punched } your time clock
by looking: at it?
A.g Yes ae
Q ' Base that indicate to you that. unless it was an
exceptional day and you came in before the. others,’ that
the department came in between 6:46 and 7:00?
-A. Will you state that again, please?
*Q. Does that indicate that unless -this was an excep:
tional day when you came in ahead of the rest of your de-’
partment, that on that day the department mia in be-
tween 6:46 and 7:00?
A. I-don't know; you asked that question | so long !
forget the first part of it.by the time you get to<the last.
Q. I will try and shorten it up. You rang the time -
clock at 6:52 that morning?
A. Yes. °
Q. Do you know what time you were expected oi start, ”
. do you know what time you were expected to ring in that
morning? ae a
A. I imagine 6:46.
Q. You'don’t know whether vou were or not?
A. Well, I know we didn’t—we couldn't — in be-
fore we were told to.
‘ ?
Steve Anderson | | 573
"9. Yes, you told us that. You don’t know, for in-
stance, whethér ie were expected to punch in at 6:31 that
morning ?
A. No, | don’ t .
.Q. If you were supposed to punch in .at 6:31 and
punched in at 6:52, at least you. were not sent home for
‘ it, were you?
‘A. No.
Q. You worked all that day, didn’t you?
A. Yes. I think if I was supposed to: punch in ‘at 6:31¢
© and came in late like that they likely — have sent me .
home. |
Q.. So you don’t think you were ; need to ‘punch in
at 6:31 that day?
A. I don’t think so, no. :
Q. What time do you think you were , expected to
punch in that day? |
A. I imagine 6:46. ;
The Master: Were you ever criticized by your foreman
‘or anybody in fhe department superior to yourself, for
coming in late when you came in at 6 :48 or. 6:49 or 6:527
A. Yes, the foreman used to call the de “pgrtment to-
gether and raise the devil with us.
‘The Master: When did this happen?
A. Qh, he did that on quite a few occasions.
The Master; What was the foreman’s name, again?”
A. Mr. Harms, Ernest Harms, and. Mr. Roth, also.
The Master: What did he say on these occasions? -
A. When he used to give us the devil for not getting in
there, when he told us to, we would try to explain dif-
ferent things to him, but he knew it all.
The. Master: Was there any talk“aé to whether you
were being 2 or 3 minutes late every day?
_A. Yes, he used to come around about that, too.
"The Master: Did he do that with you. personally or
the whole department?
A. The whole department.
Wes
oa)
374 oe Steve Anderson’ :
— -_s ; we
The Master: Did he ever single you out?.
‘A. Yes, ‘he gave me the dickens onegmorning I came in.
I guess after 7 o’clock, 1 was 15 minutes late, or something.
like that, and he had another man on my Job; I think I
came in,at one minute after 7:00, something like that.
The Master:..What I am particularly ‘interested in is
on these ‘days when you came in late; from 2 to 5 minutes
later, 6:48 or 6:52, when you were supposed ‘to be there °
at 6:46, was there ever any criticism of you. personally
by vour foreman when you came in 2 to 6 minutes late?
A. Yes, he used to raise the dickens with us. ‘I want
you to get up to that clock and stand there until the clock
’ turns.’ : i
The Master: Was this at a meeting that he. tald you,
; ‘that, or did he tell you individually?
A. Well, when we «vere working on cups, he would get
a ‘couple of us and give us the devil. Then he would get a
couple of others and give it to them. He wouldn’t direct
it personally at me, but there was ‘only two i us wort ing
on one job.
The Master: He would direct it at the two of you?
A. Yes. . Ae.
The Master: When did these conversations happen?
‘A, As soon as we got in.
The Master: “Wold ‘it be before the firsi strike took
place?
A. Yes, before the first’ strike. After thé first. strike’
he told us we didn’t have to come until 7:00. He told us
to core in at 7 or 6:45.
The, Master: How long before the first strike took.
: place?
A. That was after the first strike he told us that.
The Master: Yes, but with respect. to saying you
should come in‘at 6:46, and criticizing you for coming in —
late, how long before the first strike took. place did these
criticisms occur?
- Oh, up until about six aati
~
é Steve Anderso¥ 575
The Master: Up until six months before the strike? |
A. Yes. And when they found out our. union was get-
ting pretty strong, they didn’t ride us so bad.
The Master: Did the foreman take your time clock
card to you at any time and point out that you were get-
ting there at 6:48 and 6:49 when you — be getting —
there at 6: :461
A. No, he didn’t do that.
The. Master: He just. told you to get there at 6:467
A. Yes. In fact, when he told us we should be thére
at 6:46, he said, ‘“I don’t mean 6:50, I mean 6:46.’’ And
we are all human, we can't get there at 6 :46 in the morn-
ing. I think any man that says he done it is telling a lie.
The Master: Go ahead.
Q. (By Mr. Cooper) Showing you again, witness, Ex-
hibit 1-H, yp the’ second day of that pay period, you punch-.
ed in at 6s that day, didn’t you?
A. Yes.
~Q. And you weren't ‘sent home. for that?
A: No, sir.
Q. Do you iclaidatien: anything. said to you that day
about the time you punched in the time clock ?,
A. No, I couldn’t remember anything said that day, no. :
Q. Do you know what time you were supposed to punch
A. I imagine 6:46.° .
Q. You don’t know whether it was, or not? Or, do you
know whether it was 6:46? ,
A. Yes, I am pretty sure.
*Q. It was 6:46?
| ae SN .
Q. Now, the next day you punched in at 6:51, didn’t
- in that morning?
A. Yes. :
Q. You weren’t sent home that day?
A. No.
Q. What time were you supposed to punch in that day?
er
&
+ Steve Anderson |
I imagine 6:46.
Do you kiiuw whether it was 6:46.or not? ;
Well, 1 am pretty sure.
You are pretty sure‘it was 6:46. Do you remember
anything said’ to you that day for punching in at 6:51?
A.
' Q.
re
_ Q..
A.
Q
No. I punched out at 11:56 that day, too.
What ‘time did you vain in the next day?
6:56.
What time were you supposed to punch in that day?
I imagine 6:46.
Don’t you know?
A. 1 am pretty sure.
. Q. You worked all that day, ‘didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. What time did you punch in the next day?
A. 6:52.
Q. What time were vou iidieiinanal to punch inf
A. I am pretty sure it was 6:46.
Q. And again you worked all day, didn’t you?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember any wything being said to- you, that
day about—
A. (Interrupting) No.
Q: (¢ ‘ontinuing ) —punching in late? _
A. No.
Q. -Again the next day you wanitiad ’ in at- 6:51?
A. Yes. I imagine it was 6:4f, supposed to.
Q. The next day 6:52? .
A. Yes. . a5
Q.* And the next day at 7.06?
A. Yes...
Q. ‘And the next day at 6 50?
A. Yes. .
Q. What wine were you niin to punch in that
day?
A. Iam seam sure ‘6 46. i
Q. And then the next day of that pay period, what time
“did you punch in?
- Steve Anderson he : $77.
A 6:51." ;
Q. What time were yougupposed to oun in that dav?
A. .I imagine 6:46.
Q. Well, was it 6:46 or do you think it might have
en 6:40 or 7:01?
A. Well, I am pretty sure it was 6 46.
Q. Do you. remember : ‘anything being said to you that
day about it? .
A.. No, I don’t even _ know what day it was.
Q. W ell, then, there isn'ta single day in that two weeks
period when you punched in as early. as 6:49, is there?
A. No.
- been
Q. 6:50 is the earliest? _
A. Yes. .
Q. And some of the days you 1 punched in later than
6:50?
A. Yes..
Q. And you weren’t sent home any of those: days for:
being late? ‘
A. No. . i
Q. Now, would yop say that the rest of the department
probably came in at 6:46 or theredppite on those wenn
A. I imagine so,, I wouldn’t—
Q. (Interposing) : Are you pretty sure of it?
A. It is according to what they were working on, [
imagine. - ; %
Q. You are pretty sure that was ee
_A. (Interrupting) You asked me, and I am telling:
~ You. | 7 ,
Q. I am asking vou. \~ °*% |
I couldn’t swear. to it, no, but—
(Interposing) - You don’t think so?
In fact, J am pretty sure.
In fact, vou are pretty sure?
. Yes.
Do you know Arthur Baxter?
Yes.
— did he work?
a
Nasi el at
‘piatibee,
*
578 eee Steve Anderson
A. Well, He worked dipping, and: he nied on the
dipping | machine on.the spray machines.
-Q. Is that in the dipping department, ‘too? .
A Te. * e -
Q. How about Clarence. Burgess? rey
~ A. He worked in the dipping —
Q. Nelson~ Bichtmant. :
A. Yes. : :
*Q. Catherine, May, where ail she work? * * * .. :
A. I think she worked in the. brushing department.
Q (By Mr. Gooper, continui g) Was the brushing dé.
‘partment in a way a part of the dipping sas eocamic
A. Yes, 1 guess it was.
Q. Was the-oyeration ‘that after a piece had been dip-
ped it would be brushed? \
, A. No. It was brushed beforé' it could. bal dipped. ‘
Q. It was ‘brushed before: it was dipped?
A. Yes.
—Q. The. brushing was to remove dust or. particles, of.
dict, is . that’ Bi il
Yes. °
Do vou know where Luella Rohrbeck :worked?
She worked. in the dipping department.
‘She was a dipper’s helper, was she?
Yes. She worked on cups. —
. Where did George Schroeder work?
worked on the spray machines.:
4 And ‘they were in the dipping department?
Yes, but they didn’t come in at the same time as the
denice as arule. ° °°) ue
Q.. Did. Mary Sawicki work a: spring machine?
A.’ I. think she did; I think. she still works on. the,,
white spring ‘machine.
-Q.. That is all -a part of the dipping department, isn’t”
it?
: @
A. Tes.
Well, he worked—he was. a dipper, and then. he -
i
— : “7 3
”
2 5
¥ Steve Anderson . » 9
Q. Dow rou know Louis Thurman? ;
“A. Tea. :
—Q. Was he a dipper, toot |
A. * ¥es. “2
Q. ‘And do you know William Wendt?
A. Yes. °- aa
Q. He was a Manik too?
A’ Well, he dipped and he car ried ware, that is, car-
ried ware off the cups. ?
Q.. Wax that last operation outside the dipping. —
' ment?
A. No, that was in the dipping department.
‘ Q. It is all in the dipping eauhacarnl
ot 7" % :
(By Mr. Cooper) Now,,. you. ere us, tio that on
| Be first’'day shown on the card for. the pay period ending
2
v.
November 26, 1940, that, is oe 1-H, you punched in
at 6:527 ®.
A. Yes. ; yD
Q: And you said you were pretty sure that 6: 46 was
~ the starting time for the dipping department : that ‘day?
A. _I imagine so, yes.
* Q: In fact, you said you were pretty sure?
. ae* . |
Q. Showing you “Exhibit 19, ‘what time did Arthur
"Baxter punch im: that day?
_ A. 6:31.
Q. And Clarence Burgess?
A. 6331. ; :
Q. And Nelson ‘Luchtman? *
A. 6:52. sah
Q. And Katherine May?.
A. 6:51. ;
~ Q. And Lonella Rohrbeckt
AL 6:53. . ;
Q. And George Schroeder? aes °
A. 6: 52.
> 580 ° | Steve Anderson
wae : -a P *
Q. And Clarence Schwartz? — ¥.
A. 6:19.
Q. And Mary. Sawickit |
A. 10:46.
Q. And Louis Thurmant —
A. 6:51.
Q. And William Wendt?
- A. 6:56; Let ‘me take them cards and explain that.
wilk you? :
*» Q. You will have a sisinns to do that; | want to ask
you a few-more questions. Now, on the second day shown
on that same time clock card, you punched’in at 6:55? »
A.- 6:55. ahi
Q. And there again Arthur manne cae in at 6:3]
on ‘that day? |
Yes. ~ ,
And Clarence ,Burgess at 6. ae .
Yes. . : :
And Nelson Luchtman at 6:55?
Yes.
Joroperaroborerererer a
. day
Bi
And Katherine May at'6:327° .
Yes, that is right. .
And Louellfa Rohrbeck at 6:52?
Yes. ae
And George Schroeder didn’t work that day? .
No.
_And° Clarence Schwartz at 6:217 . a
Yes. .
_ And Mary Sawicki at 10:477 .
That is right. ’
-And Louis Thurman at 6 255? | 3
Yes.
And Willjam | Wendt at 6 417
Yes.
Going ‘over now to Exhibit 1-JJ again, the second
on that pay period you Punched in at 6:52? -
‘6 :52,_-ves.
t
~
\
Tah : | Steve Anderson * © 3 , 381
Q. And Arthur Baxter cancun in at 6:51 .
A. Yes.
Q. And Clarence Burgess sinanelin dein at 6:51 .
LA. ie...
Q. And Nelson Luc -htman commas in at 6:51!
A. Yes. ;
Q. And Katherine May at 6 31% -. toes
ae ee -ve
Q. And Louella, Rohrbeck at 6:53?
A. That is right. ”
Q. And Clarence Schwartz at 6:18? —
a
Q. And Mary Sawicki at-10:477
[a ee
‘Q. id Louis Thurman at 6 524
A. That-is right.
Q. -And William. Wendt at 6:51?
A. Yes.
Q. There was nobody punched i in at 6:46 that i>, ap-
parently?
A. No, not on those cards.
Q. You wouldn’t know, | presume, whether anybody
else in the department might have punched ip at 6:46 that
day or not? é
A. Well, if* you will get the rest of the cards, | “think
you will find that they did.
Q. But you don’t know. You guess that some of them
might have punched in.at 6:46?
A. Yes.
Q Asa matter of fact—
A: (Interrupting) I am pretty. surk they poe in
at 6:46.
Q. As far as you can tell, apparently different people
working in the dipping departmerit punched in at. quite a,
variety of times that day, didn't theyt
a Yes. ee
Q. (By Mr. Cooper) Taking the next day riow, being
“OPORODOPOPOPoPOPOpE DE
(582 Micive Anderson.
the third day appearing on. Exhibit 1-JJ, you punehed =
time clock at 6:52 ~_ morning?
Yes.
Arthur Baxter came in at 6:52 likewise? |
Yes.
Clarence Burgéss at. 6: eat
Yes.
Nelson Luchtman at 6: 519
Yes.
Katherine May at 6:31?
Yes.
Louella Rohrbeck at 6 53?
That is right. / :
Clarence Schwartz at 6:222
That is right.
Mary Sawicki at 10: —
Yes. .
Louis Thurman at 6 529
Yes.
William Wendt at 6 51T
Ves. * ¢ @ a
And you can’t remember wine time you punched i in .
any “particular day?
A. No.
Q. Exdept as you look at the time clock card?
A. That is right.
Q. You can’t remember what time you ‘arrived at the
plant at any particular day?
A. No.
Q. You’ can’t remember ‘whether the time clock cards
show how many Saturdays, if ani, you worked during
that period?
A.- Ne, I couldn't. °-°.° —
Q.. (By Mr. Cooper): Now let’s take Thursday, the
second Thursday on this Exhibit 1-H. being your time
clock card for. November 26, 1940; on that morning you
punched in at 6:52; is that right?
A. Right here (indicating), yes.
- @:
:381
A.
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q
A
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q.
A
‘9.
A
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q
"And Louella Rohrbeck at 6:52?
". Louella Rohrbeck at 7:06?
Steve Anderson ; . 583
And William Wendt | on that day punched in. at
Fs
Yes.
‘And Louis Thurman » punched i in at 6:51
' Yes.
And Mary Sawicki at 6:521
Yes.
And Clarence Schwartz, at 6:51?
Yes. es
Yes. -
Catherine May at 6 31?
"ee, |
Nelson ‘Luchtman at 6:16% —
Yes. | ;
Clarence Burgess at 6 311
> Yes.
And Arthur Baxter at 6 311°
Yes. |
And the next day 3 you punched in at. 7:06? —
Yes..
_And William Wendt punched in at 7: 06 too?
. Yes.
Also Lovis Thurman?
Yes.
Mary heitins at 6:32?
Yes.
Clarence Schwartz at 7 062
He punched in earlier, didn’t he—yes.
Clarence Schwartz at 7:06?
Yes. Pe
Yes.
Catherine May at 6:327.
. Yes.
Nelson Luchtman at 6:19?
Yes.
: Clarence Burgess, 6:31?
584 Steve Anderson |
_ A. , Yes. 3
Q. Arthur. Baxter, 6: :31?
A. Yes.
Q. You would say then, would you not, with reference
to these two particular weeks that these employees in ”
the dipping department punched in at the more or less
scattered timés‘as shown on ‘the cards, some of which 1
have asked you about specifically?
A. Yes, those particular employes, yes. * * *
Q. Do you know a dipper by the name of Bextert—
A. Art Baxter, yes.
Q. He worked pretty close te you in the department
there, did he not?-
A. No, not always.
Q. He did at times? He was in the 4 same © department
anyhow? ‘
A. At times, yes.
Q: He was in the same department about a year ago,
was’ he? .
_A. Yes. '
Q. You don’t baer just what time his working jis
started on any particular day, then, do you?
A. . Some days he would come in, when he was working
_ on cups, he would come in fifteen minutes to a half hour
before we did, when they were short on cups.
- Q.- I think you said you are president of Local 1083
of the United Pottery Workers of America?
A. That is right.
Q. You’are plaintiff in the suit, of course?
A. Yes. ;
Q. Steve, did you start this suit because. the union was
starting it? .
' Mr. Lamb: (Objection. :
Mr. Yooper : T think ‘it is a i questioii Motiva-
tion is an issue. * * *
The Master (Interposing) : I will: take the question un-
. der advisement and not ‘permit the question to be an-.
swered until T am more satisfied of the Propriety of the
question. * * * ’
>
va
Steve Anderson — | » 585
Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Steve, did you talk to anyone
about starting this suit before starting it?
Mr. Lamb: Objection. * * *
The. Master: I will let him answer the question. * ° *
A. Yes. , . od Nee
Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Did you talk about it at union
meetings?
A. Yes, I did. |
Q. - As a matter of. fact, the seven or eight AE ase ar
‘named as plaintiffs are all members of the union too?
oe
~~ Q. (By Mr. Cooper) : After the suit was started, .did
‘you talk with anybody about the progress of the suit?
A. Yes, I did. * *
Q. . (By Mr. Cooper): As a’matter of fact you so-
licited former employees to sign these desiguations, did
you not? * ° ° ; .
A. No, I .didn’t. 3
Q. Did you ask anybody to sign the designation?
A. No, they volunteered to sign.
Q. So far as any signatures that you secured, you say
they came in just voluntarily? 738 .
k Zen. * 5:9 | Soa a
Q. (By Mr. Cooper). You had one or more of, these °
designations with you at various times, did you, 80 that if
anybody wanted to sign it they could come, up and sign it?
Did you tell: anybody that they » were up there? -
No, I don’t think—well, I told them.ip.the hall that |
I was starting a suit of my own, and, naturally, well, they
wanted to get in on it too. They would tell us what they
had to do under the Wage and Hour, just whether they
had to come in at 14 minutes to, or whether they charged
A. No, sir, I never had one of those with me.
Q. You never had oné of these at any time?
A.” No, sir; they were in the hall.
Q. You had it in the hall?
A. Yes.
Q.- In the hall of what building?
A. Our Union hall. - 8
Q.
A.
. 586 . Steve Andersom
°o
them for sponges, and different things like that, and they
would sign that, whatever you call it that, designation. :
Q. As a matter of fact, didn’t you tell them all. they
had to do was to sign up and they would get a lot of.
money?
A. No. ees | :
Q. Never said any thing like that?
A. No, sir.
Q. Never told them chutes there was going to he a
recovery of a large sum of money?
— * No, I didn’t know how much money they would re-.
cover. They would get just what they had coming under
the. Wage and Hour Law. * * *
Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Isn’t it a fact that you. told
some of these-people whase names are signed here, that
‘it wouldn’t cost them anything to sign - and be =
sented?
A. No, I don’t think I did.
Q. Would you say that you didn t?
A. Yes, I would. : .
Q. None of these people before they signed e ever asked
you whether some expense was involved to them?
A. No, I'don’t think they did.
In becoming represented here?
No, I don’t think they did.
- You don’t think that was ever mentioned?
No. 4 2
You do think no one ever. signed it except persons
who walkéd into the Union hall and signed it there, is
that right? : \ ,
A. That is right. aed
.
Serorte
hs
he
Q. As far as you know, these weren’t circulated around aie
at all among the employees or former-employees?
A. As far as I know, yes. No, they wasn’t.
Q. By the way, who is: paying the expense ‘of this
suit? °
Mr. Lamb: Objection. PS ;
The Master: TI will take that whole question undér ad-
visement until some authority i is produced on it.
Go ahead.
ane Anderson . ; | 587.
Q. (By Mr. Cuiguay Witness, I show you Exhibit
1-LL, your: time card {gr the period ending April 8th,
1941. I ask you whether there is a single morning on that
~ time clock card when you punched in at 6:461
A. No.
Q. Is there any when you punched in at 7:017.
A. No.
Q. Or at 6:31?
A. No, there isn’t.
What. is the sastivat: you punched in any morning
during that 2 weeks? pat ze
A. 6:48.
Q. And what is the latest?
a. oo *."™
‘Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Showing you now' *your time :
clotk card for the iia _ March 25, Exhibit 1- KK.
Q. — there any. days in that pay period when ig
punched in at 6 461
A. No. :
Q. Or 6:317
. A. No. .
_A. No, hive isn’t.
- .Q. What ‘is the earliest you punched in daring | that
two weeks? .
A. .6:48:
_Q. And what'is the latest
A. 10:46.
Q. Was it about a’ year ago that you referred. to when’, -
you said you were required to continue at work until .five
minutes to 12 and then go out and punch the time clock
before 122.
\ .A.< T don’t know whether it was or not. We punched
ont sometimes before 12, didn’t I? * * °
Q. Oh, you ‘don’t think, now, that vou did continue
work until five minutes to 12 and then hurry over so
that you could get punched out before 12 0 clock?
A. Not every day, no.
388 , ‘+ Steve Anderson
Q. In other words, you might have quit work sometime
between 11:45 and 12 :007
A. Yes. I might have quit. work before 11:45.
Q. For instance, on this same Exhibit 1-KK that we
were just looking at, indicating—perhaps I could saye a
little. time, if there is no aa, by* reading some of *
these éntriés.
The Master: Go ahead. Y ou‘can read them to the wit.
ness. He can look on while you are reading them.
Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Indicating that during those
two weeks you ‘ punched out on successive mornings at
11 :53, 11:52, 11:49,- 11:54,. 11:53, 11:56; again. 11.56,
11 :55— | » i. 4s .
The Master: Wait-a minute.
‘Mr. Cooper: Did I mis-read there?
The Master: Phe second — wae should have een
**11955.”’ . :
Mr. Cooper: ‘Thank you. .
Q: (By Mr. Cooper) : 11:55 and 11 42, Would you
‘
a say that-one any of those days vou were dipping. until
five minutes to 12 and then he told to hurry over and.
punch out the time clocks before 12? «
aa
Q. Showing you now Exhibit 1-JJ, your time clock
eard—as I’ understand it, ‘when the - ‘dipping: operations
' stopped at lunch time, the. first‘ thing that ‘you dé after
you stop dipping would be to sort of brush off your apron
with your hand? ¢ "
A. No, sir. |
Q. Do I understand that you ‘didn’t hother about
brushing off your apron?
(
A. No, I had a rubber apron that I wore.
Q. Wouldn’t there sometimes be a- little material
splash up on it that you would like to get rid of?
‘A. No. We used. to brush it off all during the ‘morn
ing. |
Q. And kept — it off every now and then?
A. bbsan
%
Steve Anderson | ogy
Q. If you notice something had*splashed up on it, you
would probably just sweep it off?
A. That ‘is right. ,
Q.. And then you would take the: apron «off?
A. By that time he told us to get out, L would have my
apron off. Just had a snap on the back, and it was un-
snapped and I would hang it up, and when‘ we came ‘in in
the afternoon the glaze would be there, and-we just give
it a shake, and the glaze would be off of it.
Q. You’ would take off your apron before you went out
‘to punch the time clock? -
A. Yes.” ;
_Q. And you would rinse off your hands and face? r
A. Put my-hands in and: give them a rinse, and we
washed in the dressing room where we had warm water.
Q. And take off your finger cot?
&. Yes, I would be taking that off when we would go
~ out. Put it in my pocket. |
Q. Then vou would walk over to the time clock?
“A. Yes. :
Q. Now, has it happened in a particular day that some
other one of. these departments we were talking about
quit work a few minutes before 12, vou woujd be mingling
with them in the aisle as you went over to he time clock,
would you not?
A. - Well, we would be walking per them, yes, but we .
woukin’t— _ oe
Q. (Interposing): Yes. I don’t suppose if there were .
several departments emptying out at one time, you could
run very fast going over that little bridge that you spoke
of, which you crossed going into and coming out of the
dipping department?
A. Well, there wasii’t several departments crossed that —
bridge.
Q. You wouldn’t say the dipping was the “only depart- |
ment that crossed it? ©
A. No. The dipping and the glost belt.
'Q. Going back, then, to the third day on this time clock :
v*
=
390 a Steve Anderson - ae
-eard for -March 25, 1941, you did all ‘those things and
punched out the time clock at 11:49, ‘is that _—
_A. Th is right. °
Q. Andthat world be figuring tl that you had fies nak a
ing up until 11:45? .
A.,11:45—-6. - © 3
Q. septa you now Exhibit 1-JJ, is s there any day, on
that—
“The Master: (Interposing):. I was just going to point
‘out the first day at that time he went out at noon he is
shown on the fourth column, he came in at 6:32 and
' checked out at 6:39, and came back: in at 10 :53. I don’t .
. know whether you noticed that. a
A. I came in and worked a little while, ond. then he
told me to have the day off.
The Master: Wait just a minute.
A. Before we do that. .
-The Master: You came in at 6:32 and checked out at
6: :39. That is a lapse of time of 7 minutes?
A. Yes.
The Master: You couldn’t be working long.
A. We would be getting the tub ready while we are
waiting. * * *-
_ Q. Now, is there any day shown on. = exhibit when
you punched i in at 63469 ¢
. Here?.
On that?
No. . ‘
Or 7:01?
No. GS
Or 6:31?
No, there isn’t.
What is the earliest you punched i in daring that pay
OPOPOoProp
ao)
®
|
oe
.o
®
6:32. ‘5
And the. latest ?
10:50.
Showing you Exhibit LAA, your time clock card
© ee
°
_ Steve Anderson , 591
‘for the pay ending February 11, 1941, is there any day on
that time clock card, when you punched in at 6 :461 :
A. No. a
Q. Any one: you punched i in at 6:311 oe ,
A. ‘No, there isn’t.
Q. Or.7:01?
A. No, sir.
Q. And what is. the earliest you punched in during
those two weeks?
‘A. 6:50.
- Q. Most of the days on . that card appear ‘to he 6 50 |
or 6:51,. don’t they? ley
A. Yes, that is right. —
Q. And one day—
A._-(Interrupting) :, 10:51.
he Master: 10:51 or 10:55. =
Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Showing you iw Exhibit 1-GG,
your time clock card for. the two weeks ending January
28; 1941, did you punch 1 in at 6:46 on any morning during
those two weeks? . _.
A. No. | 7 . :
Q. Or at 6:31?
A. Yes. - en
Q _/That was on Friday? | oe
A. - Friday. | eae
Q. Any 7:01’s?
~A. No, sir.
Qa What is the latest you nneduaih in — those two
weeks? ~~
A. ll 1.
The: Master: The majority f the entries seem to be
6:51 in the morning, is that ight? es
A. Yes. by
The Master: . At least, that is more common than any:
other figure on ‘that. There is 6:51 and one, 6:52, I oe .
lieve.
Mr. Cooper : T° think there are five days when you
| punched in at’6: nal
“ ate e
«
592 — me ie Steve Anderson
-. A. That is right.
- Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Showing you Exhibit 1- F, your -
time clock card for the period ending January 14, 1941,
what is the earliest you amen “in wee those two.
-weeks? © ‘
A. 6:50, I believe.
Q.. Is there any time there when = punched in at
exactly 6:467.
A. No. .
Q. Or 6:31?
. A. No, there isn’t. .
— Q. . Or 7:017 Pe oi ..
A: No. i. a cae
. The Master: All the entries here, with the exception
of eo" that is erg sed out, are 6:50, 6: :51, and 6:52.
. (By Mr. Cho per): ‘Showing you Exhibit 1-E, your
on clock card for the period ending. December 31, 1940,
that was apparently a short pay period, was it not; ~
one week covered there’.
A. Yes, I think x is when they. took inventory ‘and
changed— «
Q. (Interposing) : Is there any day duriyg that week
when you punched in at 6: 31 or 6:46 or 7:01?
A. No. -
The Master: _It islet ios noted that there is a 7:31
here, however. The other entries are all 6:51 or 6:52.
Mr: Cooper: And, it would appear. that 7:31 might be
an error, there oe: no other entry for that‘day.
~The Master: “That is true for that —— day, there
is. just that one entry. |
'Q. ((By Mr. Cooper): Most of the days that week you
were punching in about 6:51 or 6:52, weren "t you?
A. That is right.
Q.. Showing you now Exhibit LF, your time lock
cara for the period ending December 24, 1940, -do you
notice any days during those two weeks when vou punched
in at 6:31 or 6:46 or 7:01%
: i ie
<< e
“Steve A nderson . 593 :
Q. What is tis eavihen you siiilinih in 1 during disies
wo weeks? ee .
A. 6:50. - . ser
-Q. Some days it was 6:52, wagn’t it?
‘A. That is right. *.* °
Q. Pursuant to the suggestion of the Master tirat the
ine of examination we were’conducting just before noon
be expedited, I will make that attempt.. Steve, just ‘
glancing over your time clock cards for the year 1940,),
the same being Exhibit 1-E through Exhibit 1- EE, do you
notice any large number of days on which you punched
in at precisely 6:31 or 6:46 or 7:01? ?
A. You ean’ for me to go through these?
The Master: . Befote. when you were questioning him.
specifically ‘about some of these ecards, were. you in the
1940 group?.
Mr. Cooper: It started with. the 1941 group, if. tire
Court please. pares ‘
The -Master: Hew far did you go?
Mr. Cooper: And worked back into December, 1940.
I think we went through two of the December pay days.
The Master: All right, will vou look through the
cards, Mr. Anderson, and sée if there are many days when
you punched in at precisely 14 minutes before the hour
or before the quarter- -hour, ‘that is, at. 6:31, 6:46 or 7:01,
A. He just wants thé morning, doesn’t he?
The. Master: Yes,*that is just in the morning.
(Witnes& examines exhibits.)
“The Master: Will you answer the question, then, as.
to whether there are many days when.you punched in at
6:31, 6:46 or 7:01? :
A. Yes, a lot of days. I w ould say the ma jority of the |
days. .
.The’ Master: I -might. say this. - This isn’t ‘testimony, °
this is my own comment, but since I have been looking
over the witness’ shoulder as he was going through these
exhibits, ‘I note that there are a great many times, and
on some cards almost every day, when he punched in at:
.
594 eaten Steve Anderson
6:31. There are very few, if any, times when -he punched
in at 6:46. It seems. when he ¢ame in before 7:00, the
usual time indicated—or shortly before 7:00, the usual
time indicated is-6:51 or 6:52.
Would you say most of the days you have reference to
‘are 6:31 and not 6:461
A. Yes. .
The Master: Did you notice any days in which you
“punched in at 6:46, in going through the cards?
A. N&, I don’t believe I did.
Q. You. punched the time clock on your way to work
‘ in the. morning, did vou not?
A. Yes.
Q. And you panehed it out ape at night?
“A. Yes.
eS You don’t claim that the élantia time hitween the
time you: punched in at the time clock and the time you
7 punched out you were actnally at work dipping, do you!
. A. .No, not actually at work dipping, no. :
Q.. Now, if the hours“were computed by starting with.
- the time you punched ip in the morning and figured right
up through till the time you punched out in the evening.
if I say they were ‘computed on that basis. that is the way
you figure, i isn’t it?
A. .Yes. — -
- Q. Then during the period of 40 hours figured that
way, you wouldn’t get in so much time actually at work
in the dipping room within 40 hours, would you? '
* Mr. Lamb: Objection to the question. ** es
The Master: As I understand it, the question, is not—
if there was 40 hours elapsed time, taking simply the time
clock records, that is 40 hours from the time vou punched
in-in the morning until the time you went out at noon,
-until the time you punched in in the afternoon and the
*. time you punched out at night, then less than 40. hours
would have been spent in the dipping room itself. Is that
the question vou are getting at?
Mr. Cooper : That is right.
The Master: Can vou answer?.
’
©
: Steve Anderson’ DY5
A.. Yes, it might have been.’
Q.. (By Mr.. Cooper): Now, as I undérstand it—and,
less time would actually be spent dipping, wouldn’t it?
The Master: Less: than 40 hours.
_A. Yes.
The Master: When'you say “less time,’ I think that
is the word that is somewhat ‘ambiguous. You mean‘less
than 40 hours has been spent.
Mr, Cooper: Less than 40 hours have been spent dip.
ping. | - :
‘The Master: Ye that right?
A. Yes. * 2¢ ‘
Y. That is right. Now, if you computed either an .
eight-hour day or a forty-hour week, on the basis of the
time that you spent from the time you first punched: in
the time clock until the time you last punched out at the
time clock, there would be not all of that time spent in -
dipping room, is that right? —
A. That. is right. ,
Q~ In other words, if you spent torty hhate all told
counting all the time from the time y “e punched in the
time clock until the time you punc ‘hed: Out, only a part of
that time would have been spent in the dipping room ?
A. Yes.
The Master: Don’t you have any idea as to the method
by which you were being paid? ; ;
* A. I heard # was gang rate. How they -figured it, J
don’t know; it was divided up between the gang, so much.
The Master: You said you, kept track ¥ your produc.
tion one tirfie out there?
a ee
The Master: Was it based upon the amount of pro-
duction you got out during the day? Do you know that.
much,“ as to whether it’ was based on production, or
whether it was a straight hourly basis?
A. T imagine it was based on production.
The Mdeer: Was that your understanding?
A. That is what T imagine. What we got an hour, 1
never knew.-
+
S96 ; Steve Anderson
The Master: Well, you just imagined it. was based on
production, and you don’t know whether they were sup-
posed to be paying you on a production basis or not?
A. No, I never heard for sure, and any of the dippers
that I talked -to.didn’t know either.
The Master: Was the talk around the shop that your
were being paig on a piece work , basis?”
A. Well, some of the fellows,said we did and we were
working gang raté.
The Master: You know what a piece rs methiod of
payment is as contrasted with an hourly method of pay-.
ment, do you not? ; .
A. Yes, be paid by the piece. °
The Master: But you don’t know whether) you were
heing paid on a piece work basis? |
A. No, I don’t for sure. i
The Master: Do you know whether vou were being
paid on an hourly basis? :
A. No, I don't think we were paid. on an hourly basis:
1 don’t know. I imagine it Was a piece work. , ;
The Master: You think it was a piece work, basis? .
A. Yes. ‘
The Master: So much per piece that either vot pro-
a,
. . dueed or a gang of vou produced ?*
A. I imagine so.
The Master: Well, if that is the case, and 1 am asking
this question because Mr. Cooper was trying-to get it, tiot
because of my own interest in the problem, but if you
were actually in the. dipping room working on production
35 hours a week, you would produce less and get paid’ ©
- less than if you were working there 40 hours'a weck. If -
you ‘were working 35 hours a week in the dipping -room .
you would normally - prodace less than if you were work-
ing- 40 hours a week,. would you not? |
A. Yes, I believe we would. .
The Master: And if vou were paid on the basis of
production, you would normally ‘get less pay working 35
hours a week than working 40 hours a week. That seems
to me to be .so elemental, I don’t know why it is. really
necessary to question. the witness about it. * * *
Steve: Anderson . > 597
Mr. Cooper: It seems a curious thing that counsel for
the plaintiffs and the witness seem so reluctant’ to admit
what the-Master has characterized as an obvious thing. |
would like to have them admit if, though, on the record.
The Master: :Isn’t it obvious that, as an average
proposition, in a-35-hour, week, if he were being paid ona
piece work basis, he would make less money in a 35-hour”
week than a 40-hour week?) — ’ Sa 7
Mr. Lamb: If the conditions were the same, if there
were no stoppages and so on. : eee
The Master:. That is why | put in the statement about
the average week. |
Mr. Lamb: There is no question about it, that is
obvious. \. abs
The Master: Will the witness agree to that? -
. a ae. . pts iy
| Mr. Lamb: If*the conditions are comparable.
+ A.- Yes. 1 believe so, yes. ae .
Q. (By Mr. .Cooper): And you have agreed, as |
‘understand, it, Steve, that if that, 40 hours was figured
“starting from the .time you punched in in the merning,-
_going:up to the-time you punched out at night, you would |
be spending less than 40 hours during that week at your
_ work in the dipping room! ,
A., Yes,in the dipping room. =, ——g° ae
Q. In other words, the adoption of that system would
mean that you would be, under normal conditions, earn
~ "ing less money, in a 40-hour week? A tes SNe
Mr. Lamb: Object. * * * > ‘
Mr. Cooper: Suppose we excuse the witness. ;
~The Master: All right, I will excuse you ‘from the
room while he is arguing.- = as
‘ (The witness was thereupon excused from Yee
“coyrtroom.) ° * ° mee.
'+* (The witness resumes the witness stand.)
Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Getting back .to this again, if *
your time was figured on the so-called time‘ clock card
basis, you would be spending less {ime every day in the
‘dipping department? :
The Master: Spending less time in the. what?
7
“a
598 ’ Steve Anderson
_Mr. Cooper: Less time every day in the dipping de-
partment. |
Mr. Lamb: Less time than what?
The Master: You haveea comparative question and
you don’t state the alternative. You say if your time was
figured by this method you would be spending. less time, —
Mr. Cooper: ‘I,will re-phras question.
-Q:—{By Mr. Cooper): You are familiar, Steve; with
"two methods of computing here, one what. we might call
- the company method; by that 1 mean are you familiar with
the method of computation hy which, ‘for example, on
- Exhibit 1-X, the company figures: that»>vou worked eight
«
_ and one-quarter hours that certain day?
A. Yes.
Q. Let’s call that the company method of combputiog
hours worked.
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you claim that there is another way of com-
puting hours worked, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that would be by simply subtracting one ‘time
item: from the next on the time clock card, is that right!
A. Yes. <¢ 0
Q. (By Mr. Cooper) : You are familiar, then, with
two .possible systems of compating. hours worked?
A. Yes. |
Calling one the company. “system and the ‘other,
let’s call it the time clerk system!
A. Yes.
Q. Now, if you puma 40 sane in a wish, computed
on the time clock system, think of that and thgn think of
working 40 hours a week, computed on the; ‘company sys-
tem.. Now, is that clear so far?
M.. Fhe. 2 ‘
Q. ‘Isn’t it true, Steve,.that computing it on the clock
card system, fewer of those 40 hours would be spent in
the dipping department?.
Mr..Lamb: Objection. * * * ° |
The Master: sitar T think that is within the scope
Steve Anderson - * Soy
¢
of my ruling t hs not a question for the witness, but
a question f the ‘Court as.to a comparison of the two
| — and | will sustain the ubjection on that ground.
Pats
* ee @
—w. (By “Mr. ¢ eonee) You told the Master a few min
utes ago, did you not, that under normal conditions if you.
were only working 35 hours, actually working in the dip- .
ping room duritig the week, you would expect to earn less’
money if you actually worked 40 hours in that same dip
ping room, that is, the conditions being the same?
& J think I said ‘tyes"* to it.
\. Didn't you tell the Master’ a little while ‘ago that
under norma! production conditions you would expect to
earn less money if you worked 35 hours in that dipping.
‘ room than if. you worked 40 hours in that dipping room?
A. Did I say under normal ———— T think I said
“ona,”
Q. Yes. And. isn't it likewise true, now, taking it on
the basis of a day, that during a normal day's production.
if you were actually: at work dipping in the. dipping room
for only seven hours, you wouldn't expect that you °would
earn as much money as‘if vou were actually, dipping for
eight hours, would von?
A: - No. * ee
Q. Do you know, Steve, or do you remember whether
back in 1939 inspectors from the Wage and: Hour’ Divi-
sion inspected the Mt. ¢ ‘lemens Pottery Company? ee
A. No, T don’t. know. * * ° *
Q. (By Mr. Cooper) Do vou know ‘whether any. set-
tlement was ‘made out there in 1939 with the approval of
the Wage and Hour Division?
Mr. Lamb: Objection.
_ Mr. Cooper: Just asking if * knows.
-The Master: T will overrule the objection,
A. No, I don’t know if any was made, any settlement.
6. (By Mr. Cooper) Do you know whether vou re-
ceived money in any such settlement?
A. No.
Q. Do vou mean that you.do not know whether, you
did or not? '
600. e Steve Anderson
A. That is right. ee eek,
Q. Isn't it.a fact that ‘you received an éxtia check
in the sum of-$7.30?
~ A. I think I did.
Q. Ob, you think you did? -
A. Yea. ** ; . .
Q. (By Mr. Cooper): What was that extra check
fort s :
_ A. I-don’t know. I received a couple of checks like .
that. Once I received a check for a couple of dollars. |
don’t know what tHat was for. I also received a couple
of checks from Mr. Doll for umpiring ball games . out
there. ° * °
Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Showing you Exhibit 29-B,
for identification, is this the paper you signed at that,
time (handing paper to witness) ? ae
A. -I1 don’t know. I imagine. it is; that is my name
on there.
Q. : That is your name on there?
A. Yes.
Q. And this is a earbon - -copy. That appears th be .
your signature written in there, doesn't it?
A. Yes, it looks like it. :
=
‘SUMMARIZE,LINE 16, PAGE 827, THROUGH LINE .
25 ON PAGE 830, AS FOLLOWS:
‘‘Exhibit 29 received.’’
: ; Re-Direct Examination --
By Mr. -Lamb: . a
_ Q. Mr. Anderson, during cross-examination by Mr.
Cooper there* was some reference to meetings being
held among the emplovees of the Mt. Clemens Potterv
Company. Would xou be able to tell us where those
meetings occurred, and when they occurred?
A. Well, our meetings—we ‘used to-havé a meet-
ing, I think it was, every Thursday at noon. We would
! °
NT iii CP
Steq@g Anderson "- ~ 601
.. : m at
go up in the cafeteria and they were held right diff the
- eafeteria, and we would go up in the cafeteria and eat
- our dinner and then we would ‘have to get’ into the
meetings by 12:30, and these meetings ‘were—they had
charges in-there to show the: percentage’ of thirds, and
‘the foremen, would: talk to us, bawl some of us out-—
The Master (Interposing): Shows what? I didn’t
understand when you said it slowed the percentage of
something. ue
A. Thirds. .They had charts for saucers, and a dif-
ferent chart for 9-inch plates, and 7-inch plates, and
different ¢harts for clips, and’ so -on, and on these .
charts it» had a regular—I don’t know what. you’ would
call that line that zig-zags up and down as the percent-
‘age goes higher the line goes up. ,
The Master: A graph or chart. A
A. Yes. And, we would disenss that, and there was
a regular general meeting that would last probably: all
the way from’ 20 minutes .to sometimes a half hour.
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Was it compulsory ‘that you
attend these meetings? a
-A. Oh, yes. i |
Mr. Cooper: I object to this question and move the
answer be stricken. That— ete
Mr. Lamb (Interposing): [| will ask him what his
instructions were. es 7
The Master: Ask him why he attended the meetings,
- and’ what his instructions were.’ 7
Mr. Cooper: And by whom. _.
The: Master: We will get that__ :
A. T received my instructions m mv foreman.to
be there. ‘In fact, when we had days off we had to come
into the shop to attend the meetings.
_. The. Master: When Wid you receive the instructions
from the foremen? os PM
A. We received them at every meeting. He used to
sav he wanted everybody there.
The Master: How frequently did these meetings oc-
cur? : |
602 -. "+ Steve Anderson
A. About every Week until—=———i ®
The Master at de Once a week, | you mean!
A. Yes.
be (By MryLamb, continuing) : Did they occur after
: before you had punched the time clock? In other
winless
A. ( Interrupting) : This weet oceur i dablie the noon
hour. ‘ S ‘ pie
* Mr. “Numnteley : He said “until.’? When was that un-
til? ° . :
Mr. Cooper : ‘Shouldn't that be finished up?
A. Up’until, oh, I would say just before the first
- trouble we had up: there, the first walk-out.
Q. (By Mr.\.Lamb, continuing): Did you say . fhese
‘ meetings had occurred before or after you had punched
your time clock ecards out at noon?
A. After we punched the time cards -out. °
.Q. In other words, you punched your time clock cards
out and :would you attend ‘these meetings after, having
. had lunch? 7
A. Yes. And— ; oa |
_ The Master (Interposing): How long would these meet-
ings last? Pardon me, did -vou ‘have something to add _
to that?
A 4 was going to tell about some other meetings.
The Master: Let me first ask about these; howgdong -
did these meetings last? |
A. They would last various lengths of time. Some-
times they would. last, ohi,. twenty TT sometimes: a
half hour.
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): I think the Master asked who
spoke at those meetings?
A. Well, at these noon hecotinge most generally the
foremen would speak and\when Mr. Harding was alive
he used to come in and speak at the meetings.
Q. Who was Mr. Harding?
_A. T don’t know;. he told me -he was the ‘‘trouble- .
shooter’’ around there, I guess. he was a supervisor, or .
something of that sort. ;
° Pe -
-Steve Anderson e- G03
Q. Did Mr. Doll,. Sr., ever appear at those ‘meetings? .
24. No; he used tortalk to the meetings when we would
get the ‘whole group together, get the whole departments;
the different departments, we would have a meeting right —
in the cafeteria after we were through eating.“* * *°
‘Mr. Cooper: J might as well move at this time, if the
Court please, that this line of testimony be stricken on
the ground that there is ‘no foundation for. it in the plead- | —
ings.
The Master: While this witness is on the stand, |
_ will rule that at present I don’t see that it is within the
scope of the issues before me. ;
Mr. Lamb: 1 would like’to make a proffer.
- The Master: But you can -quesfion this witness on it
while he is on the stand. * ore
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Mr.. Anderson, how frequently
did you say these meetings oceurred? ;
‘A. About every week, every Thursday. ,
Q. And how long did they last? .
A. Oh, twenty minutes to a half hour.
Q. And other people - in you* department were re-
quired, for instance “To attend?
Mr. Cooper: If hé knows. ~
A. Well, the girls—
Mr. Cooper (Interposing) : Just a minute. There is
‘no showing of the necessary foundation.
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Tell us who attended the meet-
ings. ae
A. Well, our mectings at noon, it was just the dippers.
The Master: Does that include the men and women?
A. No, just the men. f
The Master: Did all of them attend?
A. Yes, we had to attend. We would catch liell if we
didn’t. And I believe the girls had their meetings after
work at night. ..
Q.* (By Mr. Lamb): Did your time clock ecards which |
have been offered in evidence show the time spent in these
"meetings ? . =
A.» No, we never punched the: clock.
cs)
"
t : a ae
60+ - Steve Anderson . tli il
Q. / ‘That is, you didn’ t wiih the clock as of the time
~ you went into the meeting and out of the meeting?
A. No.
Q. Did‘ you tell us how long ‘each meeting was, chow
long it lasted, ypproximately? .
A. ‘Various lengths of times. I would say trom twenty
minutes to a half-hour. * * *
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Calling your attention to *
document which the cOmpany has marked Exhibit 22, |
will ask you if you know Catherine May, if you know who
she i is, what department she worked in?,
A. ° Yes. -
Q. - What department did she work in?
She was a brusher. That is, the brushing depart .
ment.
eo.’ Calling your attention to-the next to-the last item
on Exhibit 22 for the week ending November 26th, 1940, _
I will ask you to read the time in which she punched her
time card?” * oe
This one?
Yes. ‘»
6:32.
: Aud the time that she punched out for lunch?
11:56.
And the time that: she punched biack from lunch!
12 :32%
And the time she punched out at ‘night? ,
3 :56.
I will. now call your attention to the last item on
that page and ask you what time Catherine May. punched .
the clock? —
A. -It looks like 6: 31. ——
Q. Now, handing you Exhibit . 19, “Arthur Baxter of
_ whom you have testified, is it not ‘a fact that he reported
in every morning at 6:31 during that two-week period
except the very last morning when he appeared at 6:33?
A. That is right.
Q.° — your attention to Exhibit 20; Clarence
2
Srerererors
Steve Anderson + 60%
Burgess, is it not a fact that he reported in df 6:31 every
morning except on the first -Moriday, and the-- .
. The Master (Interposing): Saturday,
Mr. Lamb: Saturday. .- | eg ae .
.Q. (By Mr. Lamb): ) Except on the third item and the
sixth item when he punched in at 6:32; is that corréct?
A‘ ae... i? 7. oe .
-Q. Mr.-Anderson, will you advise us whether you have
‘observed the other people in your department and in
other departments, of Mt. Clemens Pottery Company
checking in at the time clock?’ yee es
A. Yes. -a & |
Q. Each -day during the time you worked there?
A. Yes. | ; | a :
‘ Q. And will vou advise the Court as to the time that—
whether what you have testified. to as the time necessary
to go from the clock to the dipping department as repre-
-senting léss than one mintite, does that. apply in,general -
to the other employees whom you have observed? * sa
: Mr. Cooper: J object to that. * * * In the first place, |
“don’t think there has been a suffigient basis laid for that
question. There hasn't been any showing ‘as to why the
_ employees were observed. In fact, the witness’ preceding.
testimony has’ been a good many employees he didn’t’ ob-
serve at all. ; . ; : ;
In the second place, it involves a conclusion, and it is,
obviously, just a guess and. nothing more than that. I
think a:proper question would: be who he: saw, and when,
and what he saw. * * * ‘eee -
“ The Master: Why don’t you restrict it to the dipping
department? I presume the other departments he couldn't
tell unless they were right mext, to ‘the. dipping depart-
- ment, when they got into the department and what they
did after.they got in. As to the dipping department, did
you observe the other employees punching their time
clocks and then going over to the dipping department?
A. Yes. ~ Dae, NT,
‘The Master: . Could: you, say «as to how long it took
_ them to get over? pote Bi
apes y si Steve Anderson eemnolade! ae
A. Well, it would.take about the same as it took me to
go over there, go Fight along, there i is no loitering. or any-
thing like that. — * Ors ts
The Master: Were you faster ‘or slower than the
others, or just about the same? 2%, =
A. Just. about ,the — aon Faow that. IT was ~
faster or slower. — : -
‘JT think that is all.
» ise is) f
‘Re € ross Examination | ar.
By Mr. Cooper: :
‘Q. With reference to this question as to. the time you
_ saw oth ; employees: walking over from the time clock. |
tothe dipping department, I don’t understand that you
can name the -amount- of time that any particular em-
ployee took on any particular day? | :
A. No, of course I can’t. oe :
Q. Are you still working for the pottery?
A. No.
Q. When did you quit f :
A. I went on strike. " 3
Q. . When -was that? -.
A. About three.months ago, if weeks | ago. os
Q. Are you still on strike? Cae. %
A. Yes. ae
Q: The strike continans in existence? 2 :
- A. ‘Yes.
Q. Have you taken work any’ “place else?”
ae te | Pe eg ee
‘ y 8
& e
es
% .
| John Abtin Metz ~ - 607
es
. ‘s .
_— . a
ce © oe
JOHN ALVIN METZ, was called, as a witness on behalf
_of the Plaintiff, and being ‘first duly sworn, testified
“as follows: — ‘ se ae
“a.
a | Direct Examination
7
- By Mr. Lamb:
: i é a .
. . . 8 s ‘
—Q. Will you give us your residence. address? 4
A. Route 2, To Michigan. | ;
Q. Have you been employed by the Mt. Clemens Pot-*
tery? - at :
A. I have.
Q. * Will you give us the dates, the date when you be-
van, or year in Which you started work for ghe Mt.
Cemens Pottery Company ?* aes
A. 1931, December 26..
/Q. And you have worked how long? ,
A. Well, it would have been tén years this last. De-
cember. ; hin
Q. What department or departments have you worked
in, Mr. Metz? , iors
_ A. “Mostly the clay.shop.* * % > xi
Q.' (By Mr. Lamb) Now, when you refer to the clay *
shop, will vou tell us of ‘what vou speak when you call it
the clay shop? ‘3
A. Well,. the clay shop‘is the department where the
‘ware is actually made, that is, forming the ware. It is
divided up into three different departments, clay flat,
clay’cups and ¢lay cast ware. like a sugar bowl] or cream
pitcher, or something like that, that would he cast ware,
‘something that they can’t jigger hy ‘hand. or tool, they |
i ie _
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): ‘Are the’ jigger men in that de-
partment? ; bit
aw A. Yes, sir: T was one of them.
‘
608 John Alvin Metz
QQ, I see, you are silk as a jigger man?
AS Yes.
~ Q. Now, will you tell the Master ‘what the operations
€ pectewnaall ‘byedigger ‘men are? ;
A. Well, you have got a.man working with you and a-
girl. The girl is-classified as a finisher, and’ the man is a
batter-out. And, the hatter-out: puts the clay on the mold,
and shoves ‘it up to the jigger man and the jigger man
takes the mold and puts it in a revolving head and it has
‘ ‘gotga tool like a handle that fou pull down and you bring
‘the tool down on that and form. the baek. By using water
on the back you make it nice and smooth, and. vou have
u scraper in one hand and you serape the edges down so*
they are even all the way around the mold: :
Ths Master: Then when you ‘get through with that
process, is the clay in a soft condition or is it hardened | im
some way? 2%
A. Well, ‘the Clay is in a ‘workable condition, you
know, it’ is not running, or anything, but molds can go
through the mangle that,.we work ‘on, they are kind of
warm, and as the clay hits it it more or less keeps -it in
the same condition you can put water in the back and
the wateris just an actron of keeping the tool from drag.
ging on the clay and making it rough, and after you take
your mold out of the ring you put it-up in the mangle, up
on-the shelf that is going all the time and you are ready
.for another one. That ts. what a jigger man does.
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): AsT understand it, the mangle is
the dryer? ' |
A. That is the dryer, yes. Do you want me to explain
itt | ao ©
The Master: Yes, go ahead.
A. They have got two types there. They have got a
steam and a hot-air. The hot-air ‘mangles has 67, 68
shelves in, on a continuous chain, and the jigger head
runs with the mapgle. The ‘head is set at a certain speed
and SQ ; the mangle. And on certain types of ware,
small ware, there is some small. wares that they put up
,
John Alvin Metz : 609
7 and 8 molds to a shelf, and what we figure, there’ is
two compartments to a shelf, there is 68 double compart- a
ments to a round. ; . |
The Master: Then when if is put in the mangle, isy, .
that just -at room temperature, is it dried at room tem-
perature, or is heat supplied? — a
A. There is heat supplied to it. On the steam mangles,
‘t comes from the boiler room. And this is going all the
time. As it goes around, it simply takes it off the ‘other
side. =) ay a
The Master: I see. * aoe.
XN. . And finishes the edges. .
.Q.. (By Mr. Lamb): How many ‘mem are in the clay
departnient, Mr. Metz, approximately?
A. You mean the whole clay shop or just flat?
Q. Yes. in the first Mace, the whole clay shop.
A. The whole clay shep? Oh, T don't know; about 125.
a
o eee
(A blue-print was then marked Exhibit 30.) .
' (By Mr. Lamb): Which entrance, then would you
use, Mr. Metz. . ; ned
A. This north side, this clock right here (indicating).
Q. Marked ‘‘A‘’? aa
The Master: Would vou go difectly ing the time
.clock?:
A. No. 1 would have to come in there where he has
his finger.“ .
Mr. Lamb: At the employees’ entrance. — +
A. Right,here. oP .
The Master: Which is indicated the employees’ ef-
trance? oc ;
The Master: Then you would go along this long aisle
until you got to the time clock? -
A. ‘'Bhrough the dressing toom. That is, our-dressing -
room down there. and cloak room, whatever you -want fo .
call it. - AL.
Mr. Lamb: Where it ig marked M, a d toilet; cloak .
A. Yes. a oe
610 John Alvin Metz
Q (By Mr. Lamb): Do youvdeposit your coat there? |
A. 1 do, and my lunch there.
QY. And your lunch pail. Then proceed to the time
clock marked ‘A?
A. Yes. Sometimes we sit in there and talk and. smoke
until it is time to punch in. |
Y. I see. Now, Where i is the clay shop part of it which
you work in? * ve.
A. I worked all over that departmeiit. That is along
the lines marked -‘mangiles. * ° *
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Did -you tell us how many em |
ployees are in theclay shop; that is, the entire clay shop!
A. I told you how many. men employees in the clay
shop.
Y. And that was how. many men? _ :
A. About 125. That is just a guess.
Q. Are there women in.the clay shopt
A. Yes, there is. .
.Q. What typeof work do they do? ~\, are
Mostly . finishing. rel. now, that mostly. They
finish, they handlé stock, and then there i is emptier’, what 7
they call emptiers, inspectors.
Q. And then these 120 men'on your shift in the clay
shop, what elagsifications o of men employees aye there be-
sides jigger men?
A. Well, there is jigger mens, batter-outs and then the
fellows that operate .the automatic driers, and there is
truckers, and fellows that. makes the castors. Castors
they call .them.
Q. After you puiched the time clock, then, did vou |
proceed directly to vour - in the clay shop?
A.. I did.
Q. Arid’ was that true of the. other employees | in the
clay shop, too?
Mr. Cooper: Objection. No foundation.
A. As far as IT know. * * ° .
* Q. (By Mr. Lamb): How long would it take you to
get to your post in your department?
_ A. Oh, between a minute and two minutes. It all de-
pends on which end of the clay shop I worked. _
Q. In other words, some ae would work on one
ws e ‘ *
John Alvin Metz . 611
\end of the clay shop and other ‘days you 1 mighte work on
nother?
A. Yes; ‘that applies to weeks, too, sometimes, it is: a
week at a time and a month at a tite. ,
The Master:° Did you time yourself on that, or is that
your estimate? . oe eae
‘A. That is just a guess, knowing what time | started
to work lots of morning.
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Did you advise us whether, there
-were different shifts in the clay shop?
‘A. There was.
Q. Did you work different shifts?
a&. = L. did. ’ ‘
Q. And the time when you werk and the shifts you,
work will be indicated in the time clock cards which sai
been handed to us by the defendant ?
A. They will. * ee
(The time clock cards. were Roreugun marked
Exhibits 31, 31-A to 51- Z, and 31-AA to 31- LE.)
Mr. Lamb: We offer the exhibits. ®
Mr. Cooper: In the first place, they have not been
identified, but assuming that the witness will identify
them as being his time clock card, I object to their ad-
mission on the ground that they are not relevant. orate
The Master: I would like to look it over at my leisure, -
but on the question of the admissibility in evidence, | am
, quite clear in my mind that these are admissible in evr-
dence. The’ plaintiffs have a theory,of the case. You dis-
pute ‘theire theory. But it is. one of the things in issue |
here, and I will overryle the objection. ° uses
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): | would like to: have you tell us,
Mr. Metz, the names of other employees krfown to you w ho
work in the clay shop and were similarly situated and:
did — work to that w hich you performed?
SUMMARIZE PROM LINE 21, PAGE 866, THROU GH
LINE 4. PAGE 869, as follows:
. “Walter Selk, Alfred Erke, Robert Daniele, Carl
Schoof, Ray Wiley, Paul Frazo. Jovee Brousseau
was a finisher on - ware. Wells Clay. was a bat-
. 7 ?
: 612 Seng : John Alvin Mete
~~ en
' ter-out. Albert Schiappavasse: was anothtr Jigger
man. **
°.
QQ. Will you tell the Master the approximate time of
the day that your shift worked? Was it mornine ard
afternoon, or afternoon and. evening or what! ¢
A. Well, all four of them. In the clay shop. on flat
ware and the cups, they run two shifts. ‘The morning
shift would start to work most of the time at a quarter
to 6 or 14 a to 6, and the aftertioon shift) would
unch im at 12:32 and work until 11-0 ‘clock ar, 10 0" Glock”
or sometimes quarter to 12. It all depends how bad they
needed the ware. And we changed shifts every week.
One week we would work days and the next week we
would work nights. That is the way we called if.
Q. So, a group usually works in. the clay shop, or do
_ you work individually on piece work usually?
A. A crew is considered three people. You have. your
jigger man and batter-out and finisher. You are inde
pendent as far as running vour own job from the other
- jobs, the other mangles.
Q. Have .vou always worked on piece’ work, or have
there been occasions when you did day rate work!
A. A few océasions; not very many. >
-Q. And on those few occasions, what type of work
did: you do when you were getting a day rate?
A. Worked for Herman Miller out on the dock, or out
on cars. ‘Unloading cars.
Q. ‘Unloading cars?
~ A. Yes. I would get'a day off and ‘* would ask me if
I wanted to work out there, or téll me to go out there.
Q. Did you ever attend the meetings of the employees
called by the management?
A. Wehad meetings every week.
Q. And-were vou advised to appear.at those meetings!
Mr. Nunneley: Same objection we made before, your
‘Honor. ,
A., T was. ° * ° : . , .
The Master: I didn’t rule on the other employee. |:
Ls
é John Alvin Metz —— 613
thought while he was here in view of the f fact the charges
came up and | didn't have much time to think about it, I
would get his testimony in on it, but it does seem to me
this is outside the scope of the pieadings and if you want
to bring it in you should ask for leave to amend the
pleadings. ..
| believe ] will make that ruling. per stick to it.
~ Mr. Lamb: 1 would like to make a proffer of proof.
- The Master: All right, go “ahead. ;
Mr..Lamb: Ff this witness were permitted to testify, |
he would answer that he and all other employees of the
Mount Clemens— Potters Company, including those rep-
resented by this phaintatf,- were required to, and did, at
tend a meeting once a week since the effeetiye date of
_ the Wage and Hour Law; and if this witness were per
” mitted to answer he will testify that said meetings lasted
from 15 minutes to a half hoyy each week, and .were ad.
dressed by foremen or other supervising officials of. the
Mount Clemens Pottery - ‘Company who advised them as
to methods te increase their Production and efficiency, and
80 forth. | :
Further, that these meetings stgipred on company
property and that the semployees were required to, and
did, punch their tie clock cards out and then attend the
meetings during Junch hours, and returned from the
meetings, punched their time clocks and proceeded to |
work.: . ,
. @ (By Mr. Luamby)::. Mr. “Metz- =
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Can you advise me whether ‘or
not you were ever required to or did, return to the em- .
ployer’ s premises and grease or oil molds? .
A. IT would like. to have that read again:
Q. Did you ever return after working. hours or after
you punched the time clocks, in pursuance to the em- °
plover’ s instructions, and oil or change molds? .
A. IT have. ;
Q. Will vou advise us the oceasion or occasions when
that procedure occurred? , .
614 John Alvin Metz
A. 1 couldn't tell you the exact date.
Y. Will you tell us apgecamantely when it occurred —
and what you did?
A. I would say a year end a half ago is the best I can.
give you. I don't know. I have dope it different times,
Q. IL see. What did you do? .
The Master: What did you do!
A. Went back, in the shop aid finished changing molds
vr finished oiling molds after | punched out the clock.
The Master: Was this in the afternoon after you had
punched out? : |
A. Afternoon, yes..
The Master: Any particular day! - . a :
A. Oy, sometimes if 1 was working on no night shift,
| might come in early before punching my clock card in —
and come back and do work and then puneh the clock.
The Master: Any particular day of the week when
this was done regularly?
A. Well, the molds which used to come through—they
have changed that. That isn't always—vyou used to come
‘ in on a Thursday, I think, and *hen Friday, and they had
a regular mold change chart: that come-out of the office
when a certain job was to change molds or something like
that, and-on oiling we oil every week. We,oil the molds
every week. ,
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Did that oecur after vou had
punched the time clock card! _
-A. Sometimes, not always. i
The Master: How was .it determined—in the first
plaee, how did you happen to come back to do this work!
A. Thev would tell me to, finish up the job. to get it
ready for the next morning. . ‘
The Master: From the foreman? ;
A: You... eee. 7
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): What is his name?
A. Robert Fittin. * * °
The Master: Was he vour foreman ‘throughout the
period vou worked in this department? z
A. Well. not throughout the whole period; Carl Ster-
~
John Alem Metz... 615
ner Was my foreman for a° while; ‘| worked .under Joe
Cornish. | ints
‘The Master: Qid you do this extra work while you
were there all the Mae when working under the different
foremen, or just When Arthur Fittin was foreman?
A. That was a habit ever since [ have been working
there, up to last, oh, | would say last year that they done
that ; done that lots of times.
The Master: . Now, you say that on some occasions you
punch your time ‘clock out and then came back and did-
the work and other wecasions you did this work before
you punched your time clock out?
A. That is right, that was to keep my hours down so
they didn't run over 40; 42, 44, -whatever it- happened to
be.
The Master: Was that the determining factor?
A. So | could make. more money at the same time, so
~ it wouldn't show too much time on my ‘clock ecard, to keep
my rdte up.
The Master: How would you know on a ‘given. day you
were to do this work before punching it out or after?
A. Jf we weren't done at 2:30, when we were supposed
to stop the job and go out, sometimes he would come
around and tel] is and sometimes we would go and ask
him what we should do.
The Master: In other words. if vou wi done in ad-
_vance of the time that -vour shift was supposed to end you
would do the work before checking out?
‘A. Yes.
The Master: And if 3 you weren’t. done with your regu:
lar work until the shift ended, vou would go out and
punch vour elock out and then come back?
A. Sometimes, and sometimes they would let it carry
over. If. you worked on a double job, all jobs weren’t -
double, if you- -worked on a double job the guy that worked
on the next shift to von would come in and finish vp for
vou. otherwise he had to do part. of it anyway, if you
worked on a double job. ,
The Court: Well, what I would like ‘to know is how
eo : a
o- >
~duam
616 John Alem Metz
\
you knew whether you were supposed to go out, on a
_ particular day how would you know whether you were
supposed to go out and punch your time clock out before |
doing this work, or whether you were supposed to do the
work and afterwards punch the time clock out;’you say
sometimes you did one and sometimes the other. How
could you tell which you were supposed to do?
A. Sometimes he would tell us to do it.
The Master: The foreman would teil you on & given
- day what you were supposed to do?.
A. He would just about’ know how many hours each |
one of us ‘had in, just about.
The Court: Were there times then when you made up
your own® mind about it without awaiting instructions
from your foreman?
A. Well, | don’t know, I don’t remember of any.
Sometimes we would go and ask and see what we were
. ‘supposed to do.
Q. (By Mr. Lamly): Can you give us an | estimate of
the number of times, for instance in the vear. 1940, ‘tha
you came back and changed or oiled molds after punching |
the time clock?
“Mr. Cooper: I object to any estimate, your Honor.
‘A. I couldn't, anyhow.
The Master: Just a minute; vou ‘couldn't estimate?
A. I don’t think I could, no,
The, Master: I will ov ertale the obdettion : the answer
is that he couldn’t estimate. [ will ask you how often,
“was it that you oiled and cleaned the mold?
_A.. We oiled the mold- once a week.
The Master: How oftendid you clean them?
A. Well, you mea change them?
The Master: Or, change them.
A. Well, that depended on the jok& Sometimes it
might be once a week, sometimes every two weeks, or
sometimes you might run a whole set of molds without
changing them once; there was no set period of time.
The Master: There was no regularity on. that?
»v
John Alvin Meta OG
ad
A. No.
‘The Master: But there was a-regularity as to the time
of viling them? , : ;
A. Yes.
Q. (By Mr. Lamb)’ Can you advise me as to what
arrangement was made relative to down time, or when
machines had broken down? Shy
A- On our particular job there wouldn't. be no ar-
rangement, you would just.sit around until it got fixed,
it it took two hours or three hours, whatev er it was.
-Q. You just sat there?’
A: Sat there. -
Q. Were you. required to go. out and punch your time ;
_ elock while waiting, or did you just sit there?
A. Well, it depended ou hov close to the noon hour, or
something like that, it was. If it was maybe within a half
hour of: the noon hour and he had -an idea how long it
was going to take to fix a job, or anything, he would tell.
us to. go*out and punch out and come back in, you know, .
after’-we ate, or something like that. That didn’t happen
too often, not on my particular job.
~The Master! What. was the usual-practice » then if the
_ down time wasn’t at. the noon hour?
A. We just stayed 7 there, right in the shop.
Q. (By Mr. Lamh):. Can you advise us what. if, any
deductions were made from your pay for sponges used | :
on the-job?
A. Yes, there was; ‘the finisher’ used the sponges and .
we paid for them.
Q. You didn’t use the sponges in your job?
A. Well, she used them on the job, but T didn’t use —
them, she used them.
The Master: You mean,the girl that was working with.
yout” Q
A. Yes.
The Master: Would use the sponge?
A. Yes.
“618, John Alvin Metz
The Master: Ww as a deduction aad from her pay “as
well as yours, if you know? )
A. No, it all fell on the jigger mau, The jigger. man
. paid for the sponges. _
~ QQ. (By Mr..Lamb): The jigger man, including your-
‘self, paid for the sponges used by the girls? eae
A. Yes. ~
The Master: Your answer is “*Yoes"’?
A. Yes.
The Master: Speak your answer ~How -much did they
charge for these sponges?
A. 30 and 35 cents, I think. I am not too sure about
that, somewhere around there; I think that was the price
of them. The finisher would go to the foreman and ask
for'a sponge order and she would take the order, artd |”
don’t know, whether he put her name down or my name .
down, she would take it to the store-room and get the
sponge; I don t even know if thie price was marked on the
sponge: .
.Fhe Master: How mariy of thene spangre, would be _
used in an average w eek?
A. Well, it all depends on wiles kind of ware you had;
some. ware would use more sponges than others. Certain
types you would use three sponges a week, atid there |
were some you would “ use three.a pay or two week
period.
Q. (By Mr. Lamb) : That .is on the computation
sheet, your Honor.
The Master: Yes, but I. am just irying to get. a rough
idea.:
Q. (By Mr. Lem): Can you advise me whether any
deductions from your pay were made for any other
articlés used on or about the job?
- A. (No response.)
Q. Gloves or anything else!
A. For pails, We had to pay for our own pails that
the finisher vased to put the water in. We had to pay for
- them. when’ ‘we — them. _
John Alvin Metz . 619
AQ. You mean that you, as the jigger man, had deduc-
‘fions made from your pay for. the pails used by the finish-
ers? eet :
A. That is right. so .
‘Q.. Now, can you tell the Master how ‘much vou were
charged for those. pails? | 3
‘A. I think: it’ was 27, 28 cents. pe
Q.. And can you tell us how frequently those charges
were made or deductions made from your pay?
A. It all depends how long you could hang on to
them, if somebody else didn’t get them away from you.
There is no way of keeping them locked-up or anything.
We tried to put names on them or put your number on,
_but they would disappear, use them over on the auto-
matic machine, turn up at the other end of the shop some .
place. :
Q.. Can yon tell us whether or not you were advised. .
by the management through an invoice or payroll deduc-
tion slip ‘or otherwise, of these deductions?
A. No, sir. |. i rice .
The Master: How did you find out about. them, then?
A. Well, sponges, why, it simply would -tell 1s once in
a while that she got a sponge today or something like —
that, and-when we gat the pails, we would have to get.an. .
order from the foreman to get a pail, to go to the stock
room to get it. eet eh Nosh
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Did you ever discuss this with
the foreman, the matter of making deductions for sponges,
for instance, from vour pay check? *
A. Oh. we diseussed -that at the meetings that we
would have after we-was done work or before we went
‘into work.
The Master: Were-these meetings of your department
or meetings of the entire plant? *
A. No, of the department; department meetings..
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): ‘Did you ever make known your
objection to these deductions from your pay check, to
the foreman?
v
620 - John Alvin Mete aah oe
-A. Well, we all didn’t like it. I imagine 4 made. it
known. They finally stopped making the jigger man pay
for it arid made the finisher pay for it.I don’t know why
they did it.
-Q. Can you advise us about what time that — 0-
\. curred, what year?
4 think it: was around January in 1941. .
\,Q. January, 19417 :
‘A. Yes. : 4 ry
Q”.. Can. you advise us of any other daductions made
from a.jiggerman’s pay check for equipment or property
used oj1.0¢ about the job of anyone?
A. Welljthey, used to deduct so much, I don’t know
how much, off of our wages for. bisque grinding, something
that they did in ‘another department.
-Q. They would deduct. from | your wages?
- * That i is right. ke
Q* In the clay shop, as a Jigger ari |
A. That is right.” - ba
Q:. The cost of bisquae— ~~
A. (Interrupting): - Bisque hs we ‘
Q. (Continuing) :—grinding, which was “Gage 1 ina dif-
ferent department? _ vanes het
A. That is right. |
Q. Can you advise us of the dejartment the tleaw
Gunite was done in?
A. It was done down around the dipping department
me place, brushing department or some place down in
there.» o
The Master: Pardon me, let me. interrupt. How were
you paid? What was the method by which you were paid?’
A. It was piece-work: go much per hundred dozen.
. The Master: Per hundged dozen? suas sagt
A. Pieces:
ie 2 (By Mr. Lamb) : Of what?
Well, whatever I was doing. Maybe Sinch fruits,
or pment 6-inch fruits, 7-inch plates, 9-inch plates,
salads. It all depends what job we was on.
> .
John Alvm Metz «© 621
The Master.: , Who kept track of what job you were
on?,. , :
A. The finisher kept track and. she put it up on the
chart: in the office. I don’t know when they started’ put-
‘ting the tickets in the truck, that we had a duplicate, each
A
truck had so many boards. Small ware was 20 beards to
the truck and large ware or center ware was 15: boards
to the truck. And we yot paid according to: the number
of trucks that was loaded on the disque belt for a two-
week period.
Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Are you able.to tell us how neh
was deducted frum your pay ‘check for this bisque grind-
ing that oecurred in other, departments?
A. Well, I have heard-—I couldn't state exactly ; :“h
asked one time, or-a couple. times I went—if I would be
short on my pay, what I: figured up .per- hundred
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