Transcript of Record — Milanovich v. United States
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FILE GOPY. ~-
. TRANSCRIPT OF RECORD
Supreme Court of the United States
OCTOBER TERM, 1960 °
No. 79
MIKE MILANOVICH, ET AL., PETITIONERS,
vs.
UNITED STATES.
ey tee
ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
; FOR THE FOURTH CIRCUIT
.
PETITION FOR CERTIORARI FILED MAY 6, 1960"
CERTIORARI GRANTED JUNE 20, 1960
an i
SUPREME COURT OF.THE UNITED STATES _
OCTOBER TERM, 1960
~ No. 79 |
MIKE MILANOVICH, ET AL., PETITIONERS,
vs. |
UNITED STATES.
ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE FOURTH CIRCUIT
ieee INDEX
’ Original Print
Record from the United States ‘District Court for
the Eastern District of rr
Indictment _._.. 2 1
Motion for bill of particulars . 5° -8
Answer to bill of particulars . 22 6
Judgments and Commitments 63. 9
Proceedings in chambers | _.. 65 13
Appearances ___- 65 13
Colloquy between Court and counsel and pre
ings on motion for bill of particulars . 66 13
Transcript of trial ar - 1 21
Appearances _.. 2-
_ Colloquy between Court and evansel 3 22
'e Excerpts from testimony of
Marvin E. Steffen— _
direct... 35 24
" Robert E. Thompson—
i ey ‘asthe 73 33
Herman F. Drummond— .
IEE licdsanneceaiicisinncdenanitoneie 283 35
ReEcorp Press, Printers, New York, N. Y., OcToser. 18, 1960
. P .
ii INDEX : .
. ~ « | Original Print
Record from the United States District Court for
* the Eastern District of Virginia—Continued _
Transcript of trial proceedings—Contisiued
Excerp§s from testimony of ye
Raymond Alfred Jones— ae
direct ae oti 321 39
Michael T. Harbrook-—
‘Sn SE ree 338, 43
Floyd 8S. Barwick—
a ee ee
Proceedings out of the presence of the jury 363 50
Excerpts from testimony of
Arthur R. Edmonds—
NE eesteenines 395 52
: Howard Kenneth Bruce— .
direct 400 53
cross _ CER RA Sh ‘4038 + 55
redirect ._ . : 404 56
Vondi Spratt—
* John Michael Cahill— = ° .
; Ge ..-- 5 a 58.
ir oe . 410 59
Robért J. Bouvier— .
direct __... nnaatsiabieati 410 60
‘Lionel O. Crowder— ’ ' -
, ip RIE Ea ae. ee. Ae ee 413 61
ES ene ee ° 415 $
Cornelius R. Anderson— | .
nn ae eeNeNee a eT 416 ‘63
Testimony of Donna Grimmer—
direct 532 65
cross 539 69
Hugh J. Smith— :
: Pe I csr 545 . 73
: Herman F. Drummond— , >
: 586 977
redirect ... a
ty)
INDEX °
Record fromthe United- States District Court for
the Eastern District. of Virginia—Continued
Transcript of trial proceedings—Continued
ae of Benjamin we Guerrieri—
direct
cross _ ;
Christ Sofocleous—
direct _ _.
—— y A Grimmer—
redirect
Virginia Milanovich—
direct ats
Mike Milanovich—
direct
Benjamin T. Guerrieri—
Marvin E. Steffen—
' (reealled )—
Marvin Baker—
direct __.
Osborn Leon Dobbs—
direct .
Jerry T. Batts— ~~
direct.
Rulings on motions for judgments of acquittal
Motion for election and ruling thereon
Motion for ‘mistrial and denial thereof
Court's statement to jury
Charge to jury ._.
Colloquy between Court and counsel
Further:charge to jury . wom
Motion for new trial and denial thereof J
Original Print a
727 85
-756 108
806 132
813 137
849° 158
851 159
970 230
980 231
1017 244
1076 260
1104 267
1178 9-277
1278 278
1317 .
1329 288
1346 291
1384 296
1385 296
_ 1386 ~ 297- .
1389 299
1395 302
1416 315
1423-319
1433
wo INDEX
———e
: ; hae vonetr Original Print
Record ‘from the United States District Court for
_ the Eastern District -of Virginia—Continued
‘Transcript of trial proceedings—Continyed \
Verdict fale 1438
329
Colloquy between Court and counsel 143331
- Sentences ~ 1453 336
‘Proceedings in the United States Court of Appeals ——
for the Fourth h Cirenit — :
—Opinion, per curiam 1456 338
Opinion of Sobeloff, C.J., concurring in “part and
dissenting in part - OLD) STE a Ao 1465 - 345
i 3 1473, 351
Order staying mandate : 1474, 352
Clerk’s.certificate (omitted in printing) ; 1475 352.
Order extending time to file poe fee writ of :
certiorari —. as cooeetecnee sag 1476 353
Order allowing certiorari = _ Riinnckicn: a ae
e
{fol. 2] [File endorsement omitted]
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA-
a NORFOLK DIVISION |
Cr. 11-696
_ Unrrep States or Amenica,
- " Vv.
’ Mike Mimanovicn, Vircinia Mrianovicn,
Bensamin THomas GueErRiert. :
Ixpictment—Filed July 16, 1958
July 1958 Term—-At Newport News, Va.
The Grand Jury Charges: | Asean eh
That. Mike Milanovich, Virginia Milanovich and Ben-
jamin Thomas Guerrieri, heretofore, to-wit, on or about
the 17th day of May, 1958, at the. United States Naval Air:
Station, Norfolk, Virginia, in the Eastern District of Vir-
ginia and within the jurisdiction of this Court, did unlaw:
fully steal or purloin certain things of value of the United
States Navy Department, a. Départment and Agency of the
‘ United States; to-wit, $23,627.64 in lawful currency of the -
United States, a further description of said property’ being
unknown, said property being the property of the United
States Navy Department, as aforesaid. (Title 18, Section .
641,U.S.C.A) | : .
ar Second Count
The Grand Jury Further Charges: 7
‘That Mike Milanovich, Virginia Milanovich and Ben-
jamin Thomas Guerrieri, heretofore, to-wit, on or about
the 2nd day of June, 1958, at the United States Naval
Amphibious Base, Little Creek, Virginia, in the District
and ‘jurisdiction aforesaid, did unlawfully steal or purloin
certain things’ of value of the United States Navy Depart-
ment, a» Department and Agency of the United States;
- ae
‘ee
‘
to-wit, $14, 788. 78 in lawful currency of the United’ States,
a further description of said property being unknown, said
property being the property of the United’ States Navy
Department, as aforesaid. — 18, Section 641, U. S.°
<C, A.)
.ffol.3]) - - | Third Count
The Grand Jury Further Charges:
That Mike Milanayich, Virginia ‘Milanovich and Ben- .
er jamin Thomas Guerrieri, heretofore, to-wit, on or ‘about
_the17th day of May, 1958, at Norfolk, Virginia, in the
District of Virginia and within the jurisdiction
s Court, did unlawfully receive, conceal and. retain,
intent to convert to their own use or gain, knowing |
it to have been stolen or purloined, certain things of value
- of the United. States Navy Départment, an agency and
Department of the United States; to-wit, $23,627.64 in law-
ful éurrency of the United States, a further description
of said property* being unknown, said property being the
‘property of the United States Navy Department, as afore-
said. (Title 18, Section 641, U. S. C. A.)
Fourth Count |
The Grand Jury Further Charges:
That Mike Milanovich, Virginia Milanovich and Ben-
jamin Thomas Guerrieri, heretofore, to-wit, on or about
the 2nd day of June, 1958, at Norfolk, Virginia; in the
District and jurisdiction aforesaid, did unlawfully receive,
conceal and retain, with intent to‘convert to their own use
or gain, knowing it to have been stolen or purloined, cer-
tain things of value of the United States Navy Department,
an agency and Departmentcof the United States; to-wit,
$14,788.78 in lawful currency of the United States, a fur-
ther description of said property ‘being unknown, said
property being the property of the United States Navy
Department, as: aforesaid. (site ‘18, sedtien 641, U. S.
C. A.). |
A True Bill:
J. . Christian, Foreman.
“LS. Pasoene; Jr., United States Attorney.
;
a . %
“Mol 5) "(File endorsement omitted]
| Ls THE 7 Srares Distaict Court
EasTerx Dusraicr OF Via
' Norrotx Drviston
. [Title omitted]
Motion ror Biz oF ParticuLans—
.Filed October’6, 1958
The deteniiani Mike Milanovich and Virginia Milano-
vich,.move this Honorable Court for an Order directing
the United States of America to file a bill of particulars
of the following matters embraced in the indictment:
Count I
1. The time of day or night that the two defendants,
Mike and Virginia Milanovich, allegedly stole or purloined
the $23,627.64 in lawful currency of the United States.
2. The type of money stolen, to-wit: currency or coin, or
both, and the amounts of each. ,
3. The manner in| which Mike Milanovich and Virginia
Milanovich stole the money alleged.
eo 3 Specifically, what part did each of. the défendants,
Mike and Virginia Milanovich, play. in the alleged theft.
5. The names and addresses of all the parties claimed by
the Governnient to have participated in this theft. .
6. Was either, or both, presembat the scene of the crime,
‘and if so, who,
7. The means of entry, and from what part of the prem-
ises the money, was stolen.
» [fol.6] 8. The names and siiveatie of all witnesses in-
° tended to be used by the Government in this case. ,
Be The person or persons from whose custody money
was ‘stolen.
-
- Count II
‘1. The time of day or night that the .two defendants,
Mike and Virginia Milanovich, allegedly stole or purloined
the $14,788.78 in lawful currency of the United States. —
2. The type of jnoney stolen, to-wit: currency or coin,
or both, and the amounts of each.
3. The manner in which Mike ‘Milanovich and Virginia
Milanovich ‘stole-the money alleged.
. 4 ‘Specifically, what. part did wid of the defendants,
Mike and/Virginia Milanovich, play in the alleged theft..
5. “The names and addresses of all the parties claimed by.
the Government to have participated in this theft. ;
' 6. Was either, or both, ire at the scene of the. crime,
and if so, who.
7. The means of entry, and ‘from what part of the prem. |
ises the money was stolen. ; noe
8. The names and addresses of ‘all lia intended
to be used by the Government i in this ease. :
9. The person or persons ‘from whose custody money.
“was stolen. , i
© ~~ Count It :
1. The time of day or night that the two defendants,
Mike and_ Virginia Milanovich, unlawfully. received the
alleged stolen money.
2. .The person or persons as whom the alleged stolen
_ money was received by Mike and Virginia Milanovich. -
3. Whether or not the money was received by both Mike |
on Milanovich and Virginia Milanovich, or either.
[fol. 7] 4.° The amount so received, etc. y and if by’ both
Mike and Virginia Milanovich, the amount claimed to be.
received by each. %
- 5. The place where the money was received.
Count IV
1. The t time of day or ‘night that the two deliiitade.
Mike and Virginia’ Milanovich, unlawfully received the
alleged $14,788. 78 stolen money.
0 2. The person or persons from whom the alleged mids
money was received by Mike and Virginia Milanovich.
3. Whether or not the money was received by both Mike :
- Milanovich and. ‘Virginia Milanovich, or either.
4. The amount-so received, etce.; and if by both Mike
and Virginia oe the amount claimed to ‘a received
by each, '
' 5. The place where the money was reseed,
000
®
7
‘The ground of said motions for each ‘smelt is that, with-
out such particulars,
, (1) The defendants connet senile and: annie pre-
pare for trial. . : ?
(2) To adequately : apprise the defendants of the nature
. - and cause of the accusations. rg
(3). Avoid prejudicial surprise at the trial.”
(4) Avoid confusion at, and to clarify the issues for
trial.
(5) Protect these: defe -fendants from a 1 second prosecution
*. for the same offense.
, Varoutsos and antaubiies, By Louis Koutoulakos, = 7
7
200 Southern Building, 2054—14th Street North,
Arlington, Virginia;
and
- J. Hubbard Davis, Bank. of Cini, Building, |
Norfolk.10, Virginia;
Attorneys for Defendants Mike and Virginia Mi-
» lanovich.
aes
(fol. 8) CrRTIFICATE oF SERVICE (omitted in printing).
~~ [fol.22]/ [File endorsement omitted]
In roe Untrep States District Court
For THE Eastern District oF VIRGINIA
ie Norrox’ Division :
a. ys
[Title omitted] :
_ ANswer to Bri oF PartTicuLars—
. Filed October 24, 1958.
‘Now Comes, the United States of America, for answer |
_ to the Bill of Particulars, filed herein, asserts as follows:
Count 1, Question 1 ©
The exact time of day and night that. this money was
taken.is not Known. The approximate time was after dark
on the evening of May 16th an prior. to dawn on the
morning of May 17, 1958. Len
Count 1, Qusstion 2
Records of the Naval Air Station Navy Exchange, as
-near_as is possible to ascertain, indicate the loss of money
to be $23,952.64. The money was in the | Ow denomi-
a or description:
a
* $500 in dimes
* $500 in quarters
$500 in half dollars
(all wrapped and sealed in bag of Seaboard
Citizens National Bank, Norfolk, Virginia)
$700 in quarters—wrapped .
» $300 in half dollars—wrapped — Le
$150 in dimes—wrapped — : :
$100 in nickels—wrapped
$250 in $5: bills—wrapped
Officer, N, A. S.,-Norfolk, Virginia.
$1,800 in $1 1 teh in $50 bundles
-$500 in $20 bills—loose
$400 in $10 bills—loose -— .
$150 in $5 bills—loose . .
$25 in $1. bills—loose -
$5;800 in. U.S. Government Checks .
$2,000 in personal checks —
$9,878.14—composite of currency, checks and bills of
which make-up is unknown
$399.50 in 9 diamond. chip rings—retail valoe
Count: 1, Question 4
Defendants were in the general vicinity of the Naval Air
[fol. 23] Station and Naval Exchange building at the Naval
‘Air Station at or around the time of the alleged thefts.
Count 1, Question 7
Money - was obtained from a locked ‘safe in building
Number U-40 at the Naval Air Station. Entry was made |
through a window into the Naval Exchange. section of the
building. The safe was locked in a room known as the -
y — room.
Count 1 Mie n)
C. A. Seuer, Lieutenant Commander, Navy. Exchange
“*
, ' . Count 2, Question 1
The.exact time of dy and/or night this money: was eben
is not known. The approximate times were between early
evening of June 1, 1958, and sometime during the ee
or day of June 2, 1958.
Count 2, Question 2 _
Records of the Naval Amphibious Base Comniissary
- Store, as near as is possible to ascertain, indicate that
approximately $14,788.78 was missing; The money was in
the followi ing es, or + deseription : |
~ Coins / _ Amount
__ Half dollars’ (in two National Bank of Commerce .
(NBC), NorfolkNbags $500.00 Each) ............... » $1,000.00
DQ
~)
a
~
Quarters in two NBC, Norfolk, bags, $500.00
| ee .. 1,000.00
Dimes (in one NBC, Norfolk, ben) ay ere 500.00 -
Dimes (in 60 NBC, Norfolk rolls, $5.00 per roll) . 300.00.
Nickels (in two NBC, Norfolk, money bags, ~~
$100.00 Endl) ...--ceocecoecoecsesse 2000.00 |
Loose miscelJaneous’ coins from cash drawers ‘
which gere in the safe : 650.00 |
Totai Coins .. | $3,650.00
Currency: - =
- $1.00 bills .. Bs SENET ak) Dene 1,000.00
$5.00 bills (17) . (In white _— marked
“Party Funds”) ...............-. - 85.00
[fol. 24} The remainder of the $14,788.78 was in. currency
‘of unknown denominations and an undetermined number
of checks, totaling not more om $2,000.00.
- Count 2, Question 4
Defendants were in the general vicinity of the Little
Creek Amphibious Base and the Commissary. Store thereof
_ at or around the time of the alleged thefts.
Count, 2, Question 7 |
Entry was gained through a window. A safe was broken
‘into. The safe was located in the Cashier’s office of the ©
Commissary Store building on the first floor of the building.
Count 2, Question 9
Raymond A. Jones, Lieutenant Commander, United
~>tates Navy, and Donald Day, Chief Warrant —
“United States Navy. : ;
/ Count 3, Gesstion 1
- The defendants received the money sometime between
the late evening hours of May 16th and the early morning =
~ hours or ” of May 17, 1958.
_ Count 3, Question 2
' Clayton Thomas Grimmer; Benjamin Guerrieri.
Count 4, Question 1
The time that defendants received or took constructive
or actual control of the money is not known, howeve?, part
of the money stolen from the Amphibious Base was ac-
quired physically by Virginia Milanovich and others on
or about the 17th or 18th day of June 1958. :
_ Count 4, Question 2
Clayton Thomas Grimmer; Benjamin Guerrieri; Christ
Sofocleous. . ata"
| _L.S. Parsons, Jr., United States Attorney.
Certificate of Service (omitted in printing).
[fol.63] [File endorsement omitted]
Ix ‘THe Usrtep States District Court
For THE Eastern District or Vircinia
Norrotk Divisos —-
No. Cr. 11-696
- Unrrep States or AMERICA,
. ae
Mike Mitanovica.
2 ~ Juvomexr axp Commitment—December 30, 1958 _
On this 30th day of December, 1958 came the attorney ,
for the government and the defendant appeared in person
- and* by counsel. nf . |
It Is Adjudged that the defendant has been convicted ©
upon his plea of? Not Guilty and a verdict of Guilty on
Count 2 g Not Guilty on Counts I and 3 of the offense of —
<<
rans
Le”
10 . : . 2 °°
violation of Title 18 U.S.C.A: Section 641 (Theft of Gov-
ernment wheedcahd and Receiving Stolen Government Pfop-
erty.)
Defendant’s motion for judgment of acquittal. sustained
: as to Count 4.
as changed? 3 in the Indictment and the
‘court having cena the defendant whether he has anything
- to say why judgment should not be pronounced, and no
sufficiént cause to the contrary béing shown or appearing
to the Court,
It Is Adjudged that the defendant is guilty as charged
and convicted.
It Is Adjudged that the defendant is s hereby committed
to the custody of the Attorney General or his authorized
representative for imprisonment for a period of* Five (5)
Years, unless sooner released by operation of. law, on
Count 2 of the Indictment.
‘It Is Ordered that the Clerk deliver a certified copy of
this j@dgment and commitment to the United States Mar-
‘shal or other qualified officer and that the copy serve as
the commitment of the defendant.
| Walter E. Hoffman, United States District Judge.
“The Court recommends commitment to:* a
_ Walkley E. Johnson, Clerk.
‘Ww:
1 Insert “by counsel” or “without counsel; the court advised the
defendant of his right to counsel and asked him whether he desired
to’ have counsel appointed by the court, and the defendant there-
upon stated that he waived the right to the assistance of counsel.”
?Insert (1) “guilty,” (2) “not guilty, and a verdict of guilty,”
(3) “not guilty, and a finding-of guilty,” or (4) “nulo contendere,”
. as*the case may be. *Insert-“in eount(s) number
if required. ‘Enter (1) sentence or sentences, specifying counts
if any; (2) whether sentences are to run concurrently or consecu-
tively and, if consecutively, when each term is to begin with
reference to termination of preceding term or to any other out-
‘standing or unserved sentence; (3) whéther defendant is to be
further imprisoned until payment ef the fine or fine and costs,
or until he is otherwise discharged as provided by law. * Enter
any order with respect to suspension and probation. * For ‘use of
Court wishing to weeremnend 4 particular institution.
~~ ae .
ec
3
a 3 | | | 11.
[fol:64] -° [File endorsement omitted]
‘Iw tHe Unirep States District Court
For THE Eastern District or Virgcinia
NorFo.k Division’
No. Cr. 11-696
2 Ustrep States or AMERICA,
. «
5, a
. Vircinia MinaNovica.
PAF, <<" ’
JUDGMENT and CommitmexT—December 30, 1958
On this-30th day of December, 1958 came the attorney
for the government and the defendant appeared in person
and’ by counsel.
v -It Is Adjudged that the defendant has been convicted
upon her plea of* Not-Guilty and a verdict of Guilty on |
Counts 2 and 4 and Not Guilty on Counts -1 and 3 of the 7
offense of violation of Title 18 U.S.C.A, Section 641 (Theft |
of Government Property and Receiving Stolen Government
Property.) ae
as charged’ in the Indictment and the
court having asked the defendant whether she has anything
to say why judgment shod\d_got’ be pronounced,. and no
Sufficient cause to the contr are, oe shown or appearing
to the Court, aeeare |
It Is Adjudged that’ the defendant is guilty as-charged-———. -
___and-convicted. are |
It Is Adjudged that the defendant is hereby committed
to the custody of the Attorney General or his authorized
representative for imprisonment for a period of* Ten ( 10)
Years.on Count 2 and Five (5) Years on Count 4, unless
sooner réleased by operation of law; said sentencé on
*
, See | | i
—
—_
e ——— al |
Count “& to run Concurrently with sentence imposed on
Count 2. | Ae .
It Is Ordered that the Clerk deliver a certified copy of
this judgment and commitment to the United States Mar-
' shal or other qualified officer and that the copy serve. as
the commitment of the defendant. — ~ zt
. Walter E. Hoffman, United States District J udge.
. The Court recommends commitment to:*
Walkley E. Johnson, Clerk.
L
' Insert “by counsel” or “without counsel; ‘the court advised the
defendant of his right to. counsel and asked him whether he de-
sired to have counsel appointed by the court, and the defendant
’ thereupon stated that he waived the right to the assistance of
counsel.” * Insert (1) “guilty,” (2) “not guilty, and a verdict of
* guilty,” (3) “not guilty, and a finding of guilty,” or (4) “noio
contendere,” as the case may be..* Insert “in count(s) number
ee . ” if required. * Enter (1) sentence or sentences,
* specifying counts if Why; (2) whether sentences are to run con-
currently or’ consecutively and, if consecutively, when each term —
_is to begin with reference to termination’ of preceding: term or to
any other outstanding or unserved sentence; (3) whéther defen-
dant is to be further imprisoned until payment of the fine or fine
and costs, or until he is otherwise discharged as provided by law.
* Enter any order with respect to suspension and probation. * For
use of Court wishing to recommend a particular institution.
[fol. 65) ae
-Iy tHe Unrrep States District Covrr
- For tHe Easters Disteict or Virctxia |
NorFo.k Division
_ * ” Criminal No. 11-696 + . -
_ Unrrep States or Amenica,
. v.
Mixe Mitanovicu, Virncixia Mitaxovicn, Bexsimin
Tuomas Guerrier, Defendants,
Proceedings in Chambers
~
.
.. Alexandria, Virginia —
4 October 15, 1958
- Before Hongrable Walter E. Hoffman, United States
District Judge. apa ‘os ‘ °
APPEARANCES :
L. Shields Parsons, Jr., Esq., United States Attorney,
For the United States of America. .— :
Hubbard Davis, Esq., Bank of Commerce Building, Nor-
. . folk, Virginia, Attorney for Defendants Mike & Virginia
* Milanovich. ,
- Varoutsos & Koutoulakos, Esqs., 2054 N. Fourteenth
Street, Arlington, Virginia, By: Paul G. Varoutsos, Esy.,
ef Counsel, and Louis Koutoulakos, Esq., of Counsel, At-
torneys for Defendants Mike & Virginia Milanovich.
[ fol. 66]
a eo @ ° - @- ° eo.
Cotoguy Betwees Court ayv,Counset axp RvuLincs
on Motion ror Bit or ParticuLars
The Court: On the request fér a bill of particulars with ©
respect to Counts Numbered I and II, the Court will order:
the. United States Attorney to give, in a bill of. particulars,
ra) »
14 ; .
the time of the day or night’ that these. defendants al-
legedly stole or purloined the quantity of money mentioned
in the indictment, but this shall not mean the specific time
of day or night and shall be confined merely to an approxi-
mation. of ‘the time between certain hours.
_As to Counts Numbered III and W, where the same re-
quest is contained, if these defendants actually stole the
.money, they ‘would then be in receipt of stolen money and —
* the answer to—
Mr. Parsons: Judge, I would like to take a short excep-
tion to that. It depends, again, on a question of semantics.
[fol. 67] The Court; If this money did not belong to Mike
and Virginia Milanovich and if they received it with knowl-
edge of the fact that it was not their’s—
_ .Mr. Parsons: When you say “received,” do you mean
that they personally took | physical possession of it at a
certain time or whether they were in poss of it -
‘through their participation through the theft '
' The Court: That they were in possession of it “ reason
of their. participation in the entire transaction. That is
what the Court means. It is not necessary, I do not be-
lie ‘ve, to show that these defendants actually ever put their
L rticular dollar bill, if that is what’ you
mean. . '
Mr. Parsons: ‘That is tnfRoint 1 I want to make.
Mr.” Koutoulakos: How about the receiving end, your
Honor? ss
The Court: It is still not necessary. They can regeive
through an agent just as well as they can receive through
their hands. . .
Mr. Koutoulakos: That is true, but at least they should
be put through the proof to tell us how they received it,
by an agency or how.
The Court: No, that will come out through the. proof in
the trial, but if the approximate time i€ given to you, that
is certainly sufficient, as I see it, to enable you to operate .
under that charge. Now it may be true that if these defen-
[ fol. 68] dants did not actually participate in-the theft at
» the time, and by that I mean, active participation, but
- thereafter, maybe one day or one week or one month later, -
hol
15
did then- receive either thémselves or through their agent,
then the United States Attorney should give a different
answer to the requested item 1 under Counts III and IV
>
of the bill of particulars, request for the bill of particulars.
Mr. Koutoulakos: Your Honor, it seems to me before
we pass that, very frankly, the Government does not know
which Way they are going..
. Mr. Parsons: We do hot? a =
Mr. Koutoylakos:- No; I do not think you do. ‘You have
a count. of stéaling and you have a count of receiving. They
are two distinct’ counts. If they stole, they did not receive,
and if they stole, they cannot receive. oy
The Court: The Court will overrule you on that.
Mr. Koutoulakos: I take an exception.
The Court: I have had that up many times and that is
the usual procedure, as a matter of fact, and it is the only
safe procedure for the Government to proceed under, to
; putin a-count of theft and a count of receiving and conceal-
. ing, because—
Mr. Koutoulakos: I agree with your Honor. :
The Court: —their proof may fall short on one, which
would result perhaps, in a. directed verdict in favor of
[fol. 69] one of these defendants as to, let us say, the theft
charges and leave it solely to the receiving and concealing.
Mr. Koutoulakos: But they could never be convicted of
both, is the point. I make. . a
The Court: Whether they can be ronvicted is another
matter. I do not know whether they can be convicted of .
anything. I do not have that before me at this time.
Now, as to item 2 in the request for bill of particulars
4s to Counts I and-II, I understand the United States
Attorney will furnish to defendants’ counsel a statement as
to the type of money stolen, that ‘is, currency or coin or
both,
Mr. Parsons: | actually believe in one of these counts
I can give you a specific breakdown almost as to currency
and coin, but in one of them I ean give you a breakdown
as to coin but only generally as to currency. I can give you
that. That is no problem. :
Mr. Davis: Were checks-involved ?
16
' Mr. Parsons: When you say “money,” I do not construe
that to be checks. I do not. recall offhand any checks. . ©
Mr. Koutoulakos:. He is not charged--the indictment
precluded checks. \
Mr. Parsons: -I know. .
_ Mr. Koutoulakos: Just money.
_ Mr. Parsons: Just money. |
[fol. 70¥ The Court: As to item 3 in Counts L and II,
which is “The. manner in which Mike Milanovich and Vir-
ginia Milanovich stoie the money alleged.”
Mr. Parsons: Strictly evidence, your Honor. ,
_ The Court: The Court holds that that information is not
proper on a bill of particulars a dych 7
Mr. Koutoulakos: Take an exceptign
The Court: As to item 4 in Counts I and II, which reads
-as follows: “Specifically, what part did each of the defen-
dants, Mike and Virginia Milanovich, = in the alleged
theft.”
Mr. Koutoulakos: I think your Honor rained that earlier,
if you recall, about the aiding and abetting, and so forth. >
‘ The Court: If that is what you want, that is one thing.
‘However, item 4 is identical with item 3, which the Court
has ruled’is a matter of evidence, unless you desire to know —
_ whether the Government contends that these parties were
- aiders and abettors or were principals.
Mr. Koutoulakos: That is wey right. That i is what ::
had in-mind. :
Mr. Parsons: Again, you are going to get into a question
of semantics, and I do not want the Government to be bound
as to what. the definition of the word “aider” and “abettor”
is as opposed to the word “principal.”
{fol.71] Mr. Koutoulakos: It ip legal definition, your
Honor.
‘Mr. Parsons: They are specifically charged as principals
in these crimes. The proof: of aiding and abetting—the
oof is something else agam. But under the law, as far
the indictment goes, it makes no difference because they
re principals even if they are aiders and abettors._
The Court:, Strictly speaking, they could be both.
Mr. Parsons: That is correct, your Honor.
17
_ The Court: - But what these defendants, I think, would
like “to know indirectly, since you object to giving it di-
rectly, I anticipate, is whether or not the Government con-
tends that either Mike or Virginia Milanovich were actually |
present at the Air Station or at the Little Creek Am-
phibious Base where these alleged thefts to&k place. Now;
I anticipate— Bers
Mr. Parsons: Do they want to know whether they were
actualty, physically in the building or on the premises of
the Naval Amphibious Base? ' aieestibe
The Court: No. I think they want.to knew whether they
were in the general area of those premises. In other words,
a person could drive an automobile, for example, to pro-
vide means of getting to the Air Station’or getting to Little
'" Creek Amphibious Base and, perhaps, also a means of
taking away the individuals who participated in the actual
(fol. 72] theft at-the building. »That person, if he drove an
automobile, would be a principal.
Mr. Koutoulakos: They are present, aiding and abetting.
| The Court: On the other hand; if a person remained in
a home and never went near the Air Station or Little Creek
AmphPhious: Base, but with knowledge of the fact merely
participated, that person, I think, would be then strictly
an aider and an ‘abettor. i
Mr. Koutoulakos: Accessory before or after.
_. Mr. Davis: That is what we want to know.
\ Off the record.
Wiscussion off the record.)
The Court: As to item 4 in Counts I and II, as requested
by the, motion. for a bill of particulars,’ the Court rules
that the United States Attorney shall atate in general terms .
whether ae Milanovich or Virginia Milanovich,\or both,
played the*part of a principal in that they, or either of
thent, were in the general vicinity of the Naval Air Station
_ or the Little Creek Amphibious Base at the time of the al-
leged thefts in question, or whether the said Mike Milano-
vich or Virginia Milanovich, or both, did not go-near the
premises of the Naval Air Station or the Little Creek. Am-
phibious Base at thé time of the alleged thefts in question.
(fol. 73] In so doing, the United States Attorney will not
. .
» oy
Sf
18
have to specifically state waa it is contended that Mike
- Milanovich or Vi irginia Milanovich, or either of them, were,
- in fact, principals or, in fact, aiders and abettors, but this
will give Sufficient information so.that the defense counsel
will know whether there will be any contention that these
defendants, or either of them, were in the general locality
at the time of the commission of the alleged crimes.
Mr. Koutoulakos: I think number 5, your Honor, has:
already been given to us, so I do not see any’ need for it.
The other people are these three.
Mr. Parsons: The other three and I want it to be alas
| that there is a possibility on this Millie Gauger—I cannot
tell you now because she has not been indicted, and’ my
main objection to this particular thing would be simply
this: We may be in a positidn, if we have to put it:down
‘right, we may have to put her name in there and we will
put ourselves in an awkward position and set ourselves up
for a possible suit. aN, ;
Mr. Koutoulakos: We withdraw that, your. Honor.
The Court: Item 5 under Counts I and II of the bill of
_ particulars has been withdrawh at the roquent of defense
’ counsel.
(Discussion off the record. )
{fol. 74] The Court: Under item 6 in Counts I and II, this
-information has been withdrawn in view of the Court’s
prior, ruling with Reapers to item 4,»
Off the record. * ~ Mae
- (Discussion off the record.)
The Court: As to item 7 under Counts I and II of the
request for a bill of particulars, the United States Attorney
_has indicated that he will furnish - in general terms the
means of entry, that is, whether it was a break in or whether
entry was procured by the use of a key or in,some other
general manner, and the United States Attorney shall fyr-
ther state from what part of the particular premises the
money was stolen, namely, was it stolen from a safe or
a cabinet and in general terms where that particular safe
or cabinet may have been located.
19
__Mr. Parsons: No objection to that, yo Honor.
_The Court: And‘that information, if furnished, is suffi-
cient, according to counsel for defendant.
All right, off the record. :
| /
(Discussion off. the record.)
The Court: As to item 8 in Counts I and II of the re-
quest for a bill of particulars, neither counsel is prepared
to advise the Court with respect to the law and, accordingly, |
[fol. 75] the ruling thereon is deferred. Defense counsel
have indicated that they would be willing to-have the names
and last known, addresses of such persons who were in-
terviewed: during the course of the ‘investigation with the
understanding that the United States Attorney would not
be bound to produce these witnesses, and if not produced,
that no comment would be made with respect to the fact
that their names and addresses had been’ incladed in the °
bill of. particulars, but as the Court is not advised with
respect to the applicable law, the Court will defer ruling —
thereoh. | . ; 7
» Counsel will give the: Court the authorities with respect
- thereto within five days from this date, and the Court will
then rule we ;
(Discussion off the record.) .
san S
The Court: ‘As to item '9 under Counts I and II of the
request for a bill of particulars, the Uniied States Attorney
has advised that he will: give the name of ,the person or
persons who may have been in charge. of the money, that .”
is, charged with the responsibility of the money as such, but
this does not suggest that this individual was the one who
counted the money or that this individual was the one who:
last had actual possession of the money prior to the. alleged
theft. .
All right, let’s go off the record,
(Discussion off the record.) .
(fol.76] The Court: As to item No. 2 in Counts IIT and
IV of the bill. of particulars, the United States Attorney
shall state the name of the person or persons from whom. |
it is contended that these defendants, Mike Milanovich and
' Virginia Milanovich, either actually or constructively re-’
U 3
' ”
20
ceived the alleged stolen mone} question, iit. it shall
not be necessary to specifically sta any physical transfer -
- of the money from any particular individual to either
- particular defendant. —
Off the record. rt
Ctnennial off the record. )-
The Court: With respect to item No-@in Counts IIT and
IV, under the motion for a requested’ bill of particulars,
the Court. is of the opinion that this inquiry can be suffi-
ciently answered unucr item No. 2, if the United States
Attorney will designate which particular defendant may
- have been involved. in the alleged actual or constructive
receipt of the alleged stolen money, or if both particular
defendants were involved the Uniftd States Attorney Phall
so state.
As to item’No. 4 in Counts IIT and IV of “the request sa
for. a bill of particulars, the Court is of the opinion that
this is a matter of evidence and argument and the United
-States Attorney is not required to particularize in what
manner the money, if received, was divided between thé
[fol. 77] various parties participating.
_ Mr. Koutoulakos: Take an exception to that.
The Court: Off the record. . i
‘
(Discussion off the record.)
The Court: As to item No. 5 under Counts III and IV
of the motion for a bill of particulars, of course, it is funda-
‘ mental that the Government must prove that the alleged
act occurred within the jurisdictional limits of the Eastern
District of Virginia, but other than. that, the Court is of
the opinion that the United States Attorney is not. re-
.. quired to state at what particular place the money was —
aljegedly received by the defendants and it is assumed, .of
_ course, that it will not be necessary for him to further
allege .that the money was feceived within the Eastern ..
District of Virginia as that is alleged in the indictment .
and constitutes a fundamental] part of the proof.
Off the record.
(Discussion off the record. )
. ,
-21
The Court: An off the record discussion was had with’
respect to the defendant's motion for discévery and in-
spection, whieh motiyn was this day filed.
- The Court has directed counsel to submit certain au-,
thorities within five days from this date in order that the’
(fol. 78] Court may rule upon the same. _ -@
Is there any request for oral argument on that motion?,
Mr. Koutoulakos: sf do not believe it is necessary.
Mr. Parsons: I do not believe it is necessary.
O The Court: Oral argument is waived.
~ (fol. 1] .
? In THE Untrep States District Court
For tHe Eastexn District or Vircinia
NorFro.tk Drvision
Criminal No, 11-696
Unitep States or AMEnrica, .e
v.° °
Mrke Mitanovicn, Vrrcrta Mmanovicn, BexsaMin
G THomas GUERRIERI, Defendants.
“Transcript of Trial Proceedings »
ie Newport News, Virginia
December 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
as 6, 8, 9 & 30, 1958
Befote Honorable Walter E. Hoffman,. United States
District Judge, and a jury. a eae
[fol. 2] APPEARANCES? ‘ ,
L. S. Parsons, Jr., Esq., United States Attorney, For the
United States of America. |
J. Hubbard Davis, Esq., Attorney for Defendants Mike
‘& Virginia Milanovich, Bank of Commerce Building, Nor-
folk, Virginia: |
Varoutsos & Koutoulakos, Esqs., Attorneyg for Defen-
dants Mike & Virginia Milanovich, 2054 N®. Fourteenth
:
+
/ | |
- Street, Arlington, Virginia, Bx: Paul G. Varoutsos, Esq,
. of Counsel, and Louis Koutoulakos, Esq., of. Counsel.
: Defendants In Propria Persona. ~
[fol. 3) : a . .
CoLLoquy Between Court anp CouNsEL .-
December 1, 19358 -
The Clerk: Any ane motions?. Criminal No.
11-696, United States against Mike: Milanovich,’ Virginj
Milanovich and Benjamin Thomas. Guerrieri. Is the Gov-
‘ernment ready in that, case?
Mr. Parsons: . The ernment is ready, your Honor.
The Clerk: Is the defense ready in that case?
Mr. Koutoulakos: .The defense is ready.
Mr. Parsons: If your Honor please, I believe there is
one preliminary matter that is uncontested. It is the ar-
- raignment of Millie Gauger, your Honor.
-TAfter the arraignment of the defendant, Millie Gauger,
~ in Criminal No: 11-764, the trial of the .case of Criminal
No. 11-696 thereupon continued.)
Mr. ‘Koutoulakos: Could I approach the Bench? Mr.
Parsons. °.
{fol.4] Mr. Parsons: Yes. .
_ (Thereupon, counsel approached the Bench.)
(The jury was impaneled and sworn.)
The Court: Gentlemen, are you ready to —
Mr. Koutoulakos : We are, your Honor, haw I would like
to excuse the jury. I want to address the Court.
The Court: All right. The lady’s name is Mrs. Knight;
is that correct? All right, if you will step out for just a
second. :
(The jury retired to the jury room at tn 06 a.m.) .
Mr. Koutoulakos: Your Honor, first,-I would like to
. have the’ witnesses sworn and excluded and then I would
like to make a motion for the Government to elect whether
or not they are proceeding on larceny or receiving. I feel —
they are inconsistent crimes and I feel they can suffer only .
an |
23
one conviction and I think the Government should take the
position what case they are going to try, whether it is the
__ lareeny: charge or receiving charge.
The Court: I will.grant your motion to exclude the wit-
nesses. We swear the witnesses he separately. I will
deny the metion as to requiring thioversnaess to elect -
as to whether they are going to proceed on the larceny
(fol. 5) charge or the receiving and concealing.
Mr. Koutoulakos: “I: take ane exception te that, your
Honor. ; ;
» Mr. Parsons: The Government would like to retain in
the courtroom Mr. Hugh J. Smith as the Government's rep-
resentative, . . e
The Court: Mr. Smith may be designated as ihe Govern-
ment’s representative tg remain in the courtroom. Of
course, the defendants may remain and will remain. As to
the other witnesses in the case, with the exception of the
witness who was arraigned here today, Millie Gauger, her
~ counsel has stated that he will not permit her to testify
any more than, perhaps, to give, her name and under those
circumstances, if she cares-to remain in the courtroom,
[would grant her that permission. ,
Mr. Parsons: No objection on the part of the Govern.
ment, your Honor. jo$,
Mr. Koutoulakos: No objection on our part.
‘The Marshal: All witnesses in thi8 casescome this way,
please. . ‘ ;
(The witnesses ‘were excluded from ‘the courtroom.)
Mr. Koutoulakos: Your Honor, inasmuch as the Gov-
erninent—and they, are entitled to it—to have a repre-
* {fol. 6] sentative, we would like to have our investigator sit
with us. ae
The Court: Motion denied. You have your defendants
and they are your representatives. ;
Mr. Koutoulakos: Now, your Honor, Mr. Parsons has—
and’ we have no objection—a request to have the witnesses
’ Sworn. to be excused’ until they are subject to call. Cer-
tainly, we do not object to that. :
Mr. Parsons: No. I have one witness who is in school,
your Honor, and I want him to stay in school until the time
©
.
<
24. _ op
he is needed so.we can be sure we will get him here and
we have to have about an hour’s notice to get him ove» here.
The Court: There is no objection to that? ©
Mr. Parsons: No, sir.
Mr.: Koutoulakos: No objection.
The Court: I take it there are no other witnesses in the
courtroom then, am I correct in that? No other witnesses.
All right. Are\ you ready to have the jury called back?
‘Mr. Koutoulakos: Pardon, your Honor?
The Court: There are no. other preliminaries, I take it?
Mr. Koutoulakos: No, your Honor.
The Court: Call the jury, Mr. Marshal.
°
. “ ’ s
= - © * a e eo '_ e
¢ {fot 35] Marvin E. StEF FEN, called as a witness by and on |
“behalf of the Government, having been duly sworn, testified
as follows: ;
bh we examination.
?
By Mr. Parsons: ve. aa ¢
Q. Mr. Steffen, would you state your full name, sir, your
occupation and w here you live, sir.
A. Marvin E. Steffen. I ama special agent of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation in Norfolk.
Q. In your capacity as a special agent, did you " make
certain investigations relative to a theft at the Amphitions
‘Base? ° .
A. I did. :
? * _@ ° e ° +
" [fol. 43] By Mr. Parsons:
Q. I wonder if you, could identify this particular sledge
hammer?
. A. This sledge saaieee was found in front of the safe,
which had been broken into at the Commissary at Little
Creek, the morning we arrived there.
2 Q. I wonder if you would describe the handle of that, sir!
[fol. 44)" AL Welt, this handle has’ apparently been—
ch
sir?
25
Mr. Koutoulakos: Well-now, your Honor, I am going to
object to any conclusions on his part.. The jury is capable
of its own to see— anes Se
Mr. Parsons: For-the purpose of the record, your Honor,
I wonder if you could just describe the top, the end of thé
handle. ‘ 1 Banealia
The Court: I do not mind Mr. Steffen describing it, but
- when we get into the word “apparently”, unless he is a
qualified expert on the subject of tools of this nature, I- do
not know whether. it would be admissiblé. He used the word
“apparently”. Now, if it is perfectly obvious, then anybody
can see it, but if it is his opinion, you would have to go a
little bit furtBer and qualify him. — gio a,
Mr. Parsons :y That is all right, sir. I think it is apparent
on the face of it.
The Government would like to offer this as Government’s
Exhibit No. 4. :
_ , The Court: Let the sledge hammer he marked Govern-
ment’s Exhibit No. 4. tr. 9 ; .
(fol.45] (The sledge hammer found at the Little Creek.
Amphibious Base as marked and received in evidence as
Government’s Exhibit ‘No. 4.) a in
_ By Mr. Parsons: .
Q. Mr. Steffen, I-wonder if you-find ,im there a hatchet,
‘
\
The Court: All of these tools now presently are in. con-
nection with the alleged theft at Little Creek?
‘Mr. Parsons: Little Creek, that isporrect, sir. .
A. This hatchet was found on the floor in front of the
safe.at Little Cretk. ;
_Mr. Parsons: All right, sir.. Government's Exhibit No. 5.
The Court: Let jt be admitted.
(A hatchet found at the Little Creek Amphibious Base
Was marked and received in evidence as Government's Ex-
hibit No. 5.) .
.
26
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. I wonder if you can find a wrecking bar or‘a floor
' ripping bar identified as a standard—
' A. This floor ripping bar was also found in the eashier’s
[ fol. 46] office near the safe at Little Creek. )
Mr. Parsops: All right, sir. Government’yfixhibit No. 6.
The Court: Let it be admitted. .
(The wrecking bar found at\the Little C phibious
“Base was marked and received in evidence as Government’s
_ Exhibit No. 6.)
&
. By Mr. Parsons:
Q. I wonder if you would look for a screwdriver, twelve
inches long, with the word “Waco C-58” on it, twelve inch
' blade?
A. This screwdriver, was also found near the safe in the
eashier’s office at Little Creek. :
\
‘Mr. Parsons: Government’s Exhibit No.7. \
The Court: Let it be admitted.
(The screwdriver found at Little Creék Amphibious, Base
was marked and received in evidence as \Government’s Ex-
hibit No. 7.) \ ~ \ \
¥
‘By Mr. Parsons: oe ae
_ Q. Can you find another sgrewdriver there, sir, with a
_ yellow plastic handle approximately seven and a haif inches
. long, sir!: Where was that found?
[fol.47] A. This was also found near the safe in the
cashier’s office at Little Creek. -
Mr. Parsons: All right, sir. This is Government’s ‘Ex-
hibit No— _ Fn:
The Court: 8.
Mr. Parsons: 8.
The Court: Let it be admitted. —
(The screwdriver approximately seven ‘and a half inches
long found at the Little Creek Amphibious Base was marked
and received in evidence as Government's Exhibit No. 8.)-
|
a |
. | 27
- By Mr. Parsons: a
_Q. Do you also find there another screwdriver with a
wooden handle about eleven and a quarter inches long, sir?
A. This is an Irwin screwdriver found near the safe in”
‘the same office.
Q. Do you find another screwdriver, Irwin screwdriver, _
nine and a quarter inches long? . .
The Court: The screwdriver just referred to by,the wit- |
ness will be marked Government’s Exhibit No. Y. 7
Mr. Parson: 9. ; .
[fol.48] (The screwdriver with the wooden handle found
‘at the Little Creek Amphibious Base was marked and re:
ceived in evidence as Government's Exhibit No. 9.
A. This is an Irwin setewdriver, about nine and a fourth
inches long, found near the safe in the cashier's office at
Little Creek.
Mr. Parsons: Government's Exhibit No..10.
The Court: Let it-be marked.
(The screwdriver approximately nine and one-fourth
inches long found at the Little’ Creek Amphibious Base
waS\narked and received in evidence as Government’s Ex-
hibit\No. 10.)
Mr. Parsons: -
Q. Do you find in there, sir, a keyhole saw? -
_A. This saw was found near the safe, also at Little
Creek.
Mr. Parsons: Government's Exhibit No. 11.
The Court: Let it be marked. "
(The keyhole saw found at the Little Creek Amphibious
Base was marked and received in evidence as Government's
Exhibit No. 11.) ay |
~ Tfol. 49) By Mr. Parsons: .
Q. Do you find in there, sir, a steel punch nine and ashalf
inches long, niarked 74? 3
“~
se mae ae
A. This was also found near the safe in the ion Ex-
change at Little Creek.
Mr. Parsons: Government’s Exhibit No. 12.
A. The Commissary.
(The Steel punch found at the Little Creek Amphibious
Base was marked and received in evidence as Government’s
- Exhibit No. 12.) .
_By Mr. Parsons: - ———*
Q. Sir, do you find, also, a Stanley wood chisel with a
yellow and black plastic handle?
A. This wood chisel was also found near thé a at Little
Creek. ss ;
Mr. Parsons: Government’s Exhibit No. 13.
The Court: Let it be marked. ra
(The Stanley chisel found at the Little Creek Amphibious
Base was marked and received in evidence as Government's .
Exhibit No.13.) - .
(fol. 50] - By Mr. Parsons: ’ |
Q. Mr. Steffen, edo “you find there, sir, a ten-inch pipe
wrench? P
*A. This was also found in the cashier’s office near the-
safe at Little Creek. _ -
‘Mr. Parsons: Government’s Exhibit No. 14.
The Court: Let it be mar rked. —
(The pipe wrench found at the Little Creek icin
Base was marked and received in ev idence as Government’s
Exhibit No. 14.)
By Mr. Parsons: .
Q. Sir, do you find a pair of six-inch side cutter pliers,
with the words “Peri-Italy”, P-E-R-I Italy? -
A. Yes, sir. Tliese pliers were also found near the safe
. at Little Creek,
Mr. Parsons: Gevecnment’ s Exhibit No. 15, I believe.-
The Court: Let it be marked. .
29
(The six-inch side cutter pliers found at the Little Creek
Amphibious Base were marked and received in evidence as
Government’s Exhibit No. 15.) _
[fol. 51]. 4 cae Mr. Parsons: —
Q.. Did you find also in that, sir, a ten- inch hacksaw
blade, sir?
A. Yes, sir. This was found -beside the safe at Little »
Creek. ae,
Mr. ‘Parsons: Government’s Exhibit No, 16, if your.
Honor please. .
The Court: Let it be marked. '
(The hacksaw blade found at theLittke Creek Amphibious
Base was marked and received in évidence as Government’s
Exhibit No. 16.)
- By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Do you find; sir, a safe dial in there anywhere, sir?
__ A. This dial was found near the safe at—that had been
broken into at Little Creek. :
Q. What is the purpose of the paper around . Mr.
Steffen? -
A. I think the paper actually fits behind—was the padding
in there. I don’t thfik it belongs on the front of it at all.
Mr. Parsons: Government’s Exhibit No. 17.
[fol. 52] By Mr. Koutoulakos:
Q. I did not understand that. Is this added on? |
A. No, I think that.that was found with it and probably—
Q. It was with it? .
A. It was found there:
(The safe dial found at the Little Creek Amphibious Base
was marked ang received in evidence ¢ as Government's Ex-
aan No. 17.) =
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. One safe handle?
A. This is the handle that was found ne ar the safe that
had been broken into at Little Creek.
. *
30 as
Q. Do you have, sir, one Ohio Sales Tax Stamp?
Mr. Parsons: 18, I believe.
The Court: Government's Exhibit No. 1%; | belteve, is the
safe handle. ; _
(The safe se found at the Little Creek Amphibious
Base was marked and received in evidence as Government's
Exhibit No. 18.)
By Mr. Parsons: oes 4 ir cy
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Yes, sir, here is an envelope containing an Ohio Sales
{fol. 53] Tax slip that was found on the floor near the left
front door of the safe in the cashier’s office:
Mr. Parsons: All right, sir. We would like to offer that
as Government’s Exhibit No.— |
The Court: 19. J
Mr. Parsons: 19.
(The Ohio Sales Tax slip foand at the Little Creek
Amphibious Base was marked and received in evidence
as Government's Exhibit No. 19.)
%
> By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Do you find there a nameplate of any kind, sir?
A. Yes, sir. Here is a nameplate found near the safe: It,
contains the name “Sargent & Greenleaf Company, conad
ester, New York, U.S. A.”
Mr. Parsons: I would like to offer this as Governatent’s
Exhibit No. 20.
The Court: The nameplate will be marked Government’s
Exhibit No. 20.
(The nameplate found: at the Little Ceti Amphibious
Base was marked and received in ev vidence as Government's
Exhibit No. 20.)
. [fol. 54] | By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Do you have cash boxes, sir?
A. If it is all right with the Clerk, we probably could
heave this right in here. Iti is quite bulky.’ It is not—
od
31
‘The Court: I think it is a fair.statement, the furthest
you keep those things away from the Clerk, the better off.
Mr. Koutoulakos: Your Honor, we do not object to it as
beiti; one exhibit. -.
The Court: All right.
- By Mr. Parsons: * eter |
Q. I wonder if you could identify, sir, where they were
found and approximately in what area! ‘ 2
A. These are cash boxes that were found in front of it
and alongside, on the table, near the safe, at the time that
we entered the cashier’s office. ' oo
Mr. Parsons: Exhibit No.—- :
The Clerk: 21.5 | : ate
The Court: Exhibit No. 21: And, Mr. Steffen, can you ©
count those cash boxes there—
The Witness: Yes, sir. .
The Court: —readily, without too much difficulty. If it
(fol..55) is too difficult, do not bother. I just wanted to get
it for the record, how many there were.
(The cash boxes found at the Little Creek Amphibious
Base were marked and received in evidence as Government’s
Exhibit No. 21:) os t a
N)
By Mr. Parsons: . -
Q. I will ask you and see if you can locate a wrecking bar
twenty-seven inches long?” . :
The Court: We are still dealing with Little Creek? ™~
Mr. Parsons: Little Creek Amphibious Base; yes.
By Mr. Parsons: .
Q. I wonder if you could identify. wherecthat was found!
_\. This wrecking bar was found in the cashier's office
near the safe at Little Creek. — a
Mr. Parsons: Government's Exhibit No. 22.
The Court: Let it be marked.
Mr. Parsons: All right, sir.
32
(The wrecking bar found at the Little Creek Amphibious
Base was marked and received i in evidence as Government's
[fol."56] Exhibit No..22.)
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Do you find a flexible spout, sirt All right, sir. Where
was that spout found f. ‘
A. This funnel, with a flexible spout, was found just
outside the door to the cashier’s office, where the safe had.
been breken into at Little Creek.
Mr. Parsons: Government’s Exhibit No—
The Court: Let it be marked: ‘Governiiidst's Exhibit
- No. 23.
_Mr. Parsons: "23, all right’ sir.
(The funnel with the flexible spout found at the little
Creek Amphibious Base was marked and received in evi- ©
dence as Government's Exhibit No. 23.) oe ‘
°
By Mr. Parsens:
Q. Mr. Steffen, did yon also recover a ‘metal suite
A. Yes: “This, metal suitease was found ‘behind the door
that opened into the cashiér’s office at. Little Creek, which
would place it directly in‘front of the safe which had been
broken into.
“e -; . . - @ . * 7 Ae
{fol 72} - Mr. Parsons: 1 would like. to call Mr. Thompson,
I believe.
The Court: I understodd, with respect to- Mr. Steffen,
gentlemen, that you were putting him on only at this
time to identify these exhibits?
ee Patsons: That is correct, sir,.and he will be recalled
for another purpose.
- The Court: He will be recalled.
_ Mr. Parsons: And Mr. Steffen should remain out of the
courtroom. Mr. Thompson, he is with the Motor Vehicle
Division. ;
33
fr ; |
/ {fol.73] Rosert E. Tuompson, called as a witness by and
on behalf of the Government, having been duly sworn,
testified as follows: a
Mr, Koutoulakos: Now, your Honor, at this_point, I
might make this observation to the Court. Of course, I
realize that it is difficult to control this, but we are request-
ing the Court, in vour discretion, whatever you can do, to
keep these witnesses, who have testified, from mingling -
with other witnesses, sometimes not deliberately, but maybe
unegnsciously, something that has been said that has been
testifiedtoand— |
~The Court: Mr. Koutoulakos, I do not think the Court
could possibly police such a situation as that; and, after
_all, people generally find out what is testified to in a general
way in almost all cases. The fine points of the questioning
are the matters tha, of course, are relevant and the main
purpose for separating witnesses, but there is not much
that I can do about the situation. After all, I think you have
a right and your associates have a right to talk to witnesses.
(fol. 74] Mr. Parsons has a right to talk to witnesses. No
one has the right to persuade a witness, of course.
. Mr. Koutoulakos: That is right. That is the point I was
making. ?
The Court: But I think you have a perfect right to talk to
_ witnesses. Despite my size, I am still only one man and I
cannot be in more than one place at one time and I do not
_ think there is much that I can do about it. Me
Mr. Koutoulakos: All right, sir. You understand the
problem: — eons yt
Direct examination.
By Mr. Parsons‘
Q. Mr. Thompson, I believe you are here in. reply to a
subpoena to Mr. Lamb, the Commissiong? of the Division
of Motor Vehicles; is that correct? _
A, Yes, Lam. ~ e
| Q. I wonder if you would state your name and your
| Qeeupation, sir?
_A.. Robert E. Thompson. I am’supervisor of the Division
of Motor Vehicles, Eastern District of Virginia. :
&
34 ‘
@. “A subpoena duces tecum was issued to Mr. Lamb to
(fol. 75)\bring with him the registration of and make and
vear of attomobile bearing 1958 Virginia license. 215-815,
and the naine and address of the listed owner of the said’
‘automobile. Did you bring such a document, sir? ;
A. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. I wonder if I might—
A. The original and a plotostatie copy.
Vr. Koutowlakos: Your Hondr;we make the samecpbiser-
vation—subject to the Connection, we emake the same objec- .
- tion in connection with the relevancy. T-asgume it will be ~
connected up somehow. ~~ ™,
The Court: I assume there will be some connecting: links,
Mr. Koutoulakos. Thus far, I am not —T on this
exhibit. There is nothing to connect—:
Mr. Parsons: — to connection, your ‘Honor, of
course, always.
The Court: Yes. :
Mr. Parsons: To save ‘time only for the purpose of those’
people coming.on who produce records subject to— a
The Court: Yes, I think. that is reasonable, and I will
tell the jury, at this time, that in connection with these
fol. 76] tecords and exhibits, and so forth, that witnesses .
have to come here for some distances at some time, and it
is a great inconvenience to keep them in order and, perhaps,
the evidence is being introduced somewhat a tittle bit out .
of order for the pape of enabling these witnesses to
leave. .
Mr. Keuiniiebes: What was the number that you said
you wanted? °
“Mr. Parsons: The license number is 218-215.
The Court: 215? : ens
* ~ Mr. Parsons: 218-815 is the number I gave.
The Court: 218-815?
Mr. Parsons: The rect number is.218-815.
The Court: That is what you intended to ask the witness!
_ Mr. Parsons: That is what I thought I asked; 218-815.
(The reporter read back the last question. )
The Court: The court reporter disagrees with you, and
(fol. 77] ‘so do I; so it is your mistake i in that case and you
are overruled. : at ‘ :
35
Mr. Parsons: That is the only number I am asking about.’
1 would like to offer this as Governient’ s exhibit No. 35,
I believe.
The Court: ae ee nt’s Exhibit No. 35.
(The application for title and certific ate of title of a, 1956
Oldsmobile was marked and, ree eive din evidence as Gov ern-
ment’s Exhibit No. 35.)
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. “Mr. -Phompson, I wonde r if you would state—and you
have, I believe, the originals in your possession at this time
—the name and address of the listed owner of the automo-
bile bearing License No, 218- 815, Virginia?
A. 218-815, it is Mike Milanovieh, 8032 W ébb Court, Nor- .
folk, Virginia.
Q. What make and model car is ensta described?
A. It is a 1956 Oldsmobile, four-door sedan, motor num-
ber 569W3062..
- .
Mr. Parsons: Thank you very much, sir. “Answer any
questions they might have. *
* a Pa eee ee : 2
[fol. 283] Mr. Parsons: I would like to eall Mr. Herman
Drummond.
. , . .
~ 2
7
ry
HEran F. Drummonp, called as a witness S by and on°
behalf of the Government, having been duly sworn, testified
as follows:
Direct examinatijon. ‘
By. Mr. Parsons: ) ~
Q. Mr. Drummond, state your name and your oecupation,
sir.
_ A. Herman F. Drummond, Jr., Special Agent, Federal
‘Bureau of Investigation.
-Q.. Mr. Drummond, did you participate in. the investiga:
(fol. 284] tion of certain allegations made against Virginia
Milanovich and Mike Milanovich? :
A. did. . _ -
Oo -
- the fingerprints of Mike Milanovich? .
- Government Exhibit No. 57.
36 ‘ , se s
Q. i. the course of that investigation, did you have occa-
sion to’contact Mike Milanov ich?
A. I did. Q.
Q. In the course of that investigation, did you also take
A. I did.
Q. Do you have such a fingerprint card with you, sir?
A. Yes, sir.
' Q. Were these fingerprints taken by you a prnenny, Mr. .
Drummond?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is Mike Milanovich here in this courtroom?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where is he?
A. Sitting: over on ‘the: left- hand side of the tee,
in back/of counsel. +
Q. Is he thé individual from whom you took these fifiger-
prints?
A. Xes, sir.
Mr. Parsons: The Goverriment would kke to offer this as "
~
-|fol. 285) Mr. Koutoulakos: Your Honor, biter it is of-
fered, I would like to know the circumstances, and so forth.
I am sure they just did not invite limi in and have a little.
drink together and say, “Give me your fingerprints.” I
would like to know what it is about. |
The Clerk: I think this is 55.
The.Court: 57. I will tell the jury that anyone arreste “l
for a crime is ordinarily fingerprinted | in the ordinary
course of investigation. a
Mr. Koutoulakos: I agree with tliat, but if he establishes 1
the ae § arrested, | agree with your Honor, a hundred
percent.
Mr. Parsons: I will ask the question.
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. When were these fingerprints taken, Mr. Drummond?
A. After the arrest of Mike Milanovich. _.
Q. What date was he arrested on, Mr. Drummond!
A. June 19th.
Mr. Koutoulakos: Good enough, your Honor.
37.
Mr. Parsons: I would like to reoffer it in evidenge.
(fol. 286] The Court: Let the fingerprint card be ad-
mitted as Gov ernment’ s Exhibit No. 57.
(The fingerprint card of Mike Milanov ich“was received |
and marked in evidence as Government’s Exhibit No. 57.)
Mr. Parsons: If your Honor please, I anticipate that I
~ will call Mr. Druminond- back at a later time for other
' evidence, but after cross-examination on this particular
,
point, I would like to ask him to return back out in the hall,
sir.
The Court: Do you wish to question him any further dA
this?
Mr. Koutoulakos: Not at this time, your Honor.
The Court: I understand you want Mr. Drummond to |
remain?
Mr. Parsons: Yes, sir. — : °
(fol. 287) Mr. Parsons: I — like to call Mr. Francis
M. ae
Francis M. Leap.ey, called as a witness by and-on behalt
of the Government, having been dyly. sworn, testified as
follows:
- Direct examination,
- By Mr. Parsons;
Q. Mr. Leapley, I oie if you would state your full .
name and your addréss.
(A. Francis M. Leapley. + live in Hy attsville, Mary land.
Q. By whom are you employed?
A. By the Federal Bureau of Inv estigation.
Q. What is your capacity there, sir?
A- Lam titled as a fingerprint examiner.
Q. Where are your official headquarters?
A. nW ashington, D. C.
Q. How long have you been so employed, sir?
A. About fourteen years and six months. . |
Q. Have you ever appeared to testify as a fingerprint
expert in court before?
A. Yes, sir, I have.
pa
\
he ! | \
Q. What are your official dutie&?
‘A. Well, my main duties consist of receiving evidence,
f fol. 288] processing the evidence for latent \impressions,
fingerprints, palmprints, footprints, photographing the im-
pressions, comparing them with inked impressions, other
latent impressions, setting férth the findings \n a report
-,and, when called upon, presenting the findings th tue make
in court. .
Q: All right, sir. f wonder if you would exp in to the
jury what a latent printjis? - , :
palm—it could be of a foot—that i is made by the:
tion or sweat that is containe don the finger and
on an shgect ©
Now, most® latent impressions are ‘invisible.’ Ih other
words, you cannot see them,with the ange eve, but with
the use of "ders—fingerprint powders, we call
but with chemicals, we can bring them up, photograph! them,
compare them with other latent impressions, inked impres-
sions, or the like.
- Q. I'wonder if you would. tell ‘the jury what an ‘inked
-fingerprint is?
A. Well, an inked fingerprint is a fingerprint that i is ob- .
- tained by placing an inked film imprint on the underside of
the finger. The ink. adheres to the raised portions of’ the :
fingers, the so-called ridges. When this is placed on an
[fol. 289] oblique on a piece of paper, it forms an outline
of the ridges of the fingers. That is exactly what an inked
fingerprint is. : 0:
_Q. All right, sir. I hand you Government’s Exhibit No.
23, sir. I-ask you, sir, have you ever examined that object
before, sir? . yA
A. Yes,sir,Ihave. ~°.
Q. From where did you receive that object, sir?
~@ 3 . I received it in my office in W ey and T proc-
8 it on the 11th of June of this year.
-Q. -What is your examination or did‘you examine it, sir? [I
- A. I examined it for latent impressions, and through the
use of fingerprint powders, 1 developed one latent finger-
print on the inside of the funnel here (indicating).
Q. Did you prepare a tthe of that print?
A. Yes, I did.’
"3
"m
©. §
-_-
Low |
s
Vv
wow
: 39
The Court; That exhibit, for the purpose of the record,
_ is What has’ been referred to as a funnel with a flexible
spout; is that correct?.
\ _
* By Mr. Parsons: ie %
Q. I hand you Government Exhibit No. 57, Mr. Léapley.
Have you eyamined that exhibit, sir?
{fol. 290] A. Yes, sir, T have.’ This was received in our
‘section on the 24th—I handled it actually on the 24th of
June 1958.
~ . Q. Did you eompare the fingerprifit on the Government
Exhibit with the fingerprints on the fipgerprint card—that
is, Government Exhibif No. 23? Er Se
A. Yes, sir, I did. ©. ° es
. Q. What were the results of your comparison? .
_. A. Well, I found that the.latent-impression developed on
the mside of the flexible spout funnel here and the finger
impression—the inked impression appearing in the No. 7
_ fingerblock of this fingerprint card, which contains the name -
Mike Milanovich which was taken on thé 19th of ‘June,
were made by one and the same person. ;
‘Q. All right, sir. Now, is it possible, Mr. Leapley, in your
opinion, for two persons to‘have the same fingerprint?
A. In my opinion, sir, it is. not possible. - .
, Q. Did you have enlargements made of these so that you
can illustrate to the jury how you ¢ame to this conclusion?
_. _ A. Yes, sir, I have. Your Honor, with vour permission,
_ Tyould like to stand.
. * * . * ; * .*
(fol. 321] Mr. Parsons: I would like to eal] Conimander _
Jones, please. > - ak
~
Raymonp ALFRED Jones, called as:a witness by and on
behalf of the Government, having been duly sworn, testified
as follows: :
' Direct examination.
By Mr. Parsons:
o . . < , ‘ E
Q. Commander Jones, I wonder if you would state your
name and where you are presently stationed. ..
°
40
A. My name is Raymond Alfred Jones. I am presently
enroute to my new station, which will be Guam. So I have
no present:station. ‘
' : Q. Where were you stationed prior to your recent trans-
[fol. 322] fer? -
_ Al The Commissary - Store, Nav al Amphibious Base,
Little Creek, Virginia. ot
When did vou assume your duties there, sir?
On 1 June 1955.
Ww hat was your capacity or title at that Store, sir?
I Was the officer in charge.
And hy whom were you assigned fo that duty?
By the Chief of the Bureau of Naval Personnel. °
. Is the Commissary Store a part of the United States -
Navy, sir?
- A, Itis.
' Q. And is it operated. by funds of the Y nited States Navy!
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Commander Jones, I call your attention to the day of
June Ist, sir, and ask you if you were at the Commissary
Store on ‘that day, sir?
A. June Ist was Saturday, 1 believe, I was at the Store
all that day up until abigut three o'clock in the afternoon.
.Q. During that day, sir, what—
gorereres
_ The Court: June 1st was a Saturday, ‘was it? eo *
[fol. 323] The Clerk: June Ist was Sunday.
The Court: June Ist was Sunday.
The Witness: If it was Sunday, no, I was not at the
Store.
"By Mr. Parsons:
Q. I call your attention, then, sir—that was my mistake, _
| am sorry—to May 31st.
_ A: Yes, that Saturday, I was at the Store that day.
Q. All right. What did your duties consist of on that
-day, sir?
A. Well, in addition to being officer imcharge, my cashier
was on leave and also my assistant was on leave and I Irad
‘taken over the cashier's safe for safekeeping of the funds -
until she returned on Tuesday.
Q. When you say the * ‘cashier’s safe,” what does that
mean, sir? I ayn not familiar with that term.
: .@
A. Well, we have two safes: one is the main safe, which
. my officer assistant has the combination to that safe, where
the bulk of the funds are mainiained. Then the cashier, or
the title she goes by is a cash accounting clerk, she is a
bonded assistant, civilian, who makes the pickup of the cash
from the cash registers and makes the deposits. She has
a safe which she has the combination to, and in her absence:
either my. officer assistant or.|.take the combination of
the safe—-have our own combination of, that safe until she
| fol. 324] returns. os . :
Q. Now, on this particular Saturday, sir, who, if anyone, -
placed money in the safe, sir—in the cashier's safe?
A. I was the only one that placed money in the safe on’
Saturday. et ee -
Q. Do yeu know, sir, approximately how much money was
placed in the safe on Saturday, sir? eats
A. Yes, it was all of the day’s receipts, which was ap-
proximately $10,000.00. I don’t have the exact figure. Until
those tapes could be sent out this afternoon, then I could
give you the exact figure— _
Q. All right, sir. Were you called back to the station on,
_Tbelieve, June 2nd, sir? | au
A. Yes, I was. ae Rae
Q. What did you find when you arrived at that time?
A. When I arrived,-the front door was being guarded by
a Nergeant—I believe he was a Sergeant from the Base
Police—and there were several policemen at the back of the
‘tore, and I opened the store and as | walked in. in front
of the—my office, there was quite a few tools seattered
around, and as we walked—axs we approached.the ‘office, |
could see ‘that the safe door was open. It had been broken
open and the office was cluttered with papers and, oh, mis-_
cellaneous tools, .
(fol. 325] Q. What action was taken hy you, if any, at
that time? 4 ;
A. At that time, as I walked in, the Chief of Police from
the Base arrived on the scene—the Security Officer was on
the scene—and they immediately notified the Federal.
Bureau of Investigation and the Commanding Officer of —
the Base. .
(). Did you, at that time, see, or examine, or have a
chance to see, what you call, the big safe,sir? —
. « 5 M~
ad
-42 «
A. Yes. We walked up to the top of the stairway and
looked at the big safe. The—the front part of the safe had
been removed. The dial had been renmreved, and there was
a hole that had been -burned—that ‘appeared to have been
burned, because there were burn marks on the front of the
_ safe, but it could not be determined that the safe had beer
broken into at that time.
Q. I hand you Government's Exhibit ae 2.A, sir, ond
ask you if this is a picture of the safe, of the main safe,
_ there, sir?
_A. Yes, it is.
Q. All right.
By. the Court : “afi r
Q. The approximate sum of $10,000.00 that yon have.re- .
ferred to, in what safe did you deposit that manny on May
3tst?
[fol. 326} A. That was in the cashier's stile. That was the
onlysafe I had the combinatiun to.
Q. Was that the safe that-was broken into?
A. Yes, sir, it was.
' By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Did you have an opportunity to look at that safe too,
sir? «
A. Yes, that was-the first safe [ saw, and it was—the
doors—it has a double door on it and the doors were wide .
open. |
Q. ‘In your capacity a officer in charge of the Commissary
Store, did you conduct a survey or inv estigation to deter-
mine the amount lost? )
A. Not immediately; because we did not have access to the
large safe. Ehe tumbler had been removed frém the safe
and there was no way of opening the safe. We had to wait .
until the F. B, I. completed theif investigation of. the—or
see if there was any fingerprints before we could get into
the safe. Then we had to get a safe expert to come out and
open tke large sufe before we could determine the exact
amount that was missing.
Q. From that large safe, sir, was any thing found to be
missing?
A. No, there was no funds missing from the lar ge safe.
a
2.
43
|fol: 327] Q. From the other safe, was there a determina-
a made at a subsequent date as to the actual amount
lost? .
A. Yes, sir, there.was.
Q. All right, sir. I wonder if. you would tell the jury
what amount was lost and how it was determined?
A. Well, the loss was thirteen—
a) Mr. Koutoulakos: | think it should—
The Court :. Did this gentleman make the determination?”
. By Mr r. ee
Q. Did you make the dete -rthinatien. or Was it done under
your orders and your authority?
A. It was done under my orders and done by the cashier
and my assistant..
_Q. Did you participate aleot
A. Asanobserver. ~*
Q. I wonder if you wofild state the results of that?
A. The ‘results indicate that a sum of $14,788.78 ‘was.
missing.
Q. Do you recall—if vou do not, that is perfectly all right
-but do you reeall how ny of this change was 8 wrapped,
sir? .
A. Well, the change was wrapped with paper wrappers
with the National Sank of ¢ ‘omtnerce printed on each
_ Wrapper.
.. fol. 328] Q. Was that the regular bank to which you made .
the deposits ? :
A. Yes,’sir, it was.
Mr. Parsons: All right; sire Answer any questions coun-
sei might have. eon Bs :
e o -” - * . , s
(f6l. 338] MicHaer 7. Hetonoon, talled as a witness by
and on behalf of the Government having been duly sworn,
testified as follows:
i fol. 339] irect examination.
| | 4 By Mr. Parsons:
_. Q. Mr. Harbrook, will you state your hame, sir, where
| you live and your occupation.
aad
44 ‘ , oT ,
A. My name is Michael Thomas Harbrook; I live at 538
Maryland Avenue, and | am currently ‘employed at fhe
Naval Air Station as a guard supervisor, GS-5.
Q. Were you, at any time, in charge of the ne or
~ eontrol of decals at the Naval Air Station?
A. T have just completed a tour of sixteen weeks where I
was in charge of the decal and mentifeation section of the .
_ Naval Air Station. .
Q. When did you stop being in charge of itt
A. .Oh, my duties terminated. there Friday, last Friday.
Q. In'‘your capacity. as being in charge of that office, do
you have eens and control of the records in there,
sir? —
A. Yes, sir. a
_ Q. Did you have sapere ision and control of the pa
who made out the slips to issue decals?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you maintain ¢ custody of those records after they
were once made out?
A. They are in the proper file.
| fo}. 340]. Q. ‘All right; sir. I believe Mr. Massengill. was
here yesterday. And I show you Exhibit No. 36, and ask you ~
if you can identify that, sir?
A. Y es, sir, I can identify this.
s Now, before you say anything about it, in your tour
of duty during the sixteen weeks was this one of the records
- under your custody and control and under your supervision? |.
A: Yes, sir. an Pod
Q. What is that edt
A. It is an application for a Station decal, which permits
the applicant #® unrestriaged access to the Station if he
meets all of the requirements as laid down by the Com-
manding Officer. \
. Q. What is the number on that and what is the name
slenell to it, sir?’ A. The number on that is—it’s a CFO"
decal, 352 and it is issued to the applicant Milanovich,
first name Mike, middle initial nones |
‘Q. Is it signed by anyone? YS t..
A. There is a signature On this application. |
Q. What does the signature read? |
A. The signature reads Mike Milanovich.
ac
45
| Mr. Parsons: All right, sir. Answer any questions that
Mr. Koutoulakos might have. |
[fol. 341) Mr. Koutoulakos: He is the keeper_of the ree-
_ ords. . aaa, ‘ :
-Thé Court: You desite now to introduce this in evidence? *.
Mr. Parsons: Yes, sir, I do. .
The Court: .Let Exhibit No. 36 be now marked in evi- -
| denee. ; ;
(The document pteviously marked as Government's Ex-
~ hibit No. 36 for identification was marked and received in:
evidence as Government’s Exhibit No. 36.) .
Mr. Koutoulakos: No questions.
The Court: Thank you, Mr. Harbrook. May Mr. Har-
brook be exeused ? ’
Mr. Parsons: Yes; sir.
The Witness: Thank you. :
Mr. Parsons: I would like to call Mr. Floyd Barwick.
Froyp S. Barwick, called as a witness by and on behalf
_ Of the Government, havin been duly sworn, testified as- -
-follows: | .
a
™,.<
{ fol. 342] Direct examination.
By Mr. Parsons:
you live and your.occupation.
.A. Floyd S. Barwick, Norfolk, hardware merchant.
_ Q. I wonder if you would speak a little louder so these
gentlemen here can hear you, sir. What business do you
- Operate, sir? : “ee
A. Retail hardware.
Q. Amd where is that.located, sir?
A. 7921 Tidewater Drive.
Q. What is the name you operate under?
A. Barwick’s Hardware. | Soe
Q. I call your attention, sir, to the evening of May 29th,
sir, and ask you if you recall the events of that evening, sir?
A. Yes, sir. oe
Q. Mr. Barwick, would vou state your name, sir, where
‘
46
Q. I wonder if you would Nate to the jury if any thing
unusual happened, sir?
A. In regards to the sale of certain merchandise?
Q. Certain merchandise. - _ \
A. Late in the afternoon? \
2. Yes, sir, around six o’clock, I believe.
. [had three customers that came in and wanted a mall.
. ron 343] Q. Is a mall the same as a sledge hammer? .
A. Yes, sir; screwdriver and two wrecking bars, two
different types of wrecking bars.. The enieaae was .
they paid me and then went out.
-Q. What else occurred at that time, sir?
A. That—other than it was around six, closing time,
other than closing, I don’t remember of anything—
@ Did you observe the vehicle that they drove off int,
Yes, I did,sir. © .
6: Did you make au, note or anything of. the vehicle!
A. I was called several days prior to that about the sale.
—or if I stocked these sledge hammers by a competitive
. merchant.
_ Mr. Koutoulakos: Your ced. I am going to object to
_any hearsay. I cannot hear him very well, but I assume he
said somebody called— — .’
Mr. Parsons: He said apmebody called him several days
before.
~ The Court: Someone called-his store and asked whether
he carried this particular mall in stock, but we are not so
interested in that as we are in your answering Mr. Parsons’
{ fol. 344] question, Mr.. Barwick, about the vehicle that he
asked you about.
A,
The Witness: Well, by being called, your Honor, about’
this particular type mall led me to be suspicious of the ©
purchase.
Mr. Koutoulakos: -Now, your Honor, I certainly think
that that answer should be stricken from the record. It is.
not called for and his conclusion inthe jury should be told
to disregard it.
The Court: We are not ociialil about his suspicions,
unless it is developed later as to why he noted the vehicle
number. Now, if you will just answer Mr. Parsons’ ques-
\ | | 47
tion, Mr. Barwick, and then if they ask you why you noted
the number—why you noted the number—you may say so.
Members of the jury, if you will disregard the statement
as to the suspicions, and-if you will answer, Mr. Barwick,
whether you did note the vehicle.
The Witness: I did note the vehicle, yes, sir. |
| { fol. 345] - By the Court:
te Q. And that ‘is the vehicle ‘that these three men drove
off in? ; vie ;
A. Yes, sir. ©
The Court: All right, £0 ahead.
By Mr. Parsons: ig | .
Q. Did you make any record or anything about this car,
Mr. Barwick? 8 a, Fore e ce
A. The license number, yes, sir. ae 3
Q. What did you do about the license number?
- I wrote it on a piece of adding machine paper.
Do you have that piece of paper with you?
- No, sir, I don’t. Mr. Phillips has it.
Do you recall the rumbers?
. No, sir, don’t. ~ 7
. At the time these three men were on your premises,
Mr. Barwick, were any other persons present that you re-
call, sir?
A. One, yes, sir,
Q. Do you recall whom that was?
A. Mr. Edmonds. . .
Q. Mr. Barwick, I ask you to look around this courtroom
anywhere you desire, sir, and ask you if yeu can identify
any of the men that were present in your store on that day?
(fol. 346] A. Yes, I-can, sir. ;
Q. Where would any of these people be? ae
A. Mr. Milanovich. ‘
Q. That is the gentleman sitting here in the second row
With the blue coat on and the blue sweater?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. All right, sir.
o
OPOvOr
Pp"
- which you recorded the automobile license?
48
By the Court: _ |
Q. The Mr. Philiips you mentioned, is that Nelson Phillips:
of.the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
A. Yes, sir. Les
“By Mr. Parsons:
* Q. Mr. Barwick, I hand you a slip of paper, and there is
certain. writing onthe back that is not pertinent to your
question, but I ask you if that is the slip of paper upon
A. Yes, sir. . |
Q. And what is that number, sir?
A,-218-8¥5. | ao
_ Mr. Parsons: I would like to offer this as Government’s
Exhibit No. 61, your Honor. . '
Mr. Koutoulakos: May I see it?, mee
‘The Court: Let it be admitted as Government’s Exhibit
No. 60. | ee as |
( £01347] By Mr. Parsons: ;
Q. When this was handed to Mr. Phillips, did he make .
. some notations on it?
. A. Yes, sir. ° |
Mr. Koutoulakos: That is what I want to see. Pe
The Court: Are there any notations by Mr. Phillips?.
Mi, Koutoulakos: Yes, there are, your Honor, and I am
. going to object to.it at this time.
The Court: Then we will arrange to only have one side —
of it photostuted, Mr. Parsons. Let the other side remain—_
"Mr. Parsons: I do not believe—the back is certainly not
evidence in this case. It.is a- notation made by Mr. Phillips
_ and it is not pertinent. ‘On the front I think there is a nota-
tion by Mr. Phillips showing the date when he received. it,
if I am not mistaken. ae :
4
- By the Court:
_- Q. May T-inquire of the witness, without divulging to
the jury, Mr. Barwick, do I understand that on this little
“
4
2
‘
|
\
49
. adding machine slip of paper the only figures you wrote
[fol. 348] down or the only ‘writing you wrote down were
the numbers 218-815? This word, and I do not want you
to read it, was not on the adding machine slip?
A. No, sir. |
Mr. Koutoulakos: I am going to‘object to the introduc-
tion of that. ° ana :
_ The Court: Yes, I think it should be sustained. However,
I think it can be so eliminated by covering it over,.gither by
some type of masking tape, or something of that kind, so
that the number can still be left there and it can be exhibited
to the jury, if there is any desire for the jury to see it.
However, the witness has testified to the effect that he wrote
this 218-815. . eet .
Mr. Parsons: If your Honor please, to avoid a good déal
of trouble, I will not offer this in evidence inasmueheas the
testimony is already in. i
- The Court: All right, let No. 60 be withdrawn.
By Mr. Parsons: :
Q. Mr. Barwick, I wonder if you would come down and
‘look at te
tify them? Step down here. They are in various and sundry
[fol. 349] places, without any particular designation. I be-
lieve that the tools— . :
A: Tools like I sold that afternoon.
Q. Mr. Barwick, in the hardware business do sledge .
.. hammers come with a handle as short as that, sir (indicat-
ing)?™ ° : °
A. No, sir.
a, “Now do-you mark the sledge hammers that you sell?
_’ A. Tha&ye my cost code plus a retail.
‘Q. Dog gu put any other marking on the t6ol itself?
A. Rar y. See ; re)
Q. Now, there are other tools; as you can see, jn and about
positively as being the ones you sold!
A. No, sir,
here. Now, Mr.’ Barwick, yoo cannot identify these toa}s
ea P
of these tools and see if.you can possibly iden- .
“
,
%
_
By the Court: ,
Q. What tools did Mr. Rarwick take out, and for what
purpose? Are’ those tools that you selected, are they simi-
lar to ‘what you sold these three men?
A. Yes, sir. .
Mr. Koutoulakos: That was this, this, and what else
- what it? (sie) ‘
Mr. Parsons: These objects he put here bn the—.
[fol. 350) The Court: I take it that instrument of torture
you haVe in your hand, Mr. Koutoulakos, i is a mall?
Mr. Koutoulakos : It sure is, yes, sir, and this item here.
Mr. Parsons: I do not think he picked it out. |
Mr. Koutoulakos: But he picked out this and these two
items here? ° ; ‘ :
Mr. Parsons: Yes, sir.
Mr. Koutduvlakos: Now, your Hene, the cross-examiha- :
tion is going to take quite some time-on this ee I
- wonder if you would like to recess.
The Court: We will start taking it.
Mr. Koutoulakos: You mean start examining?
The Court: Yes.
* a . * . * ° s
.
Q
*:*[fol. 363] Procrepines Out or THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY
Mr. Koutoulakos: Now, your Honor, could this witness
be instructed not to talk to anybody until his testimony is
completed, that is, with respect to theecase or have any body
talk to him regarding his testimony?
The Court: Mr. Koutoulakos, [ cannot be a policeman.
[ fol. 364] I am not going to eat with these people, and if you
think that vou aré going to lead me into a mistrial because
“IT see that this particular witness” or “I have heard” or “I -
am advised that this particular witness is talking to some-
body”—now, I cannot be a policeman. —
Mr. Koutoulakos: Your Honor, I do not expect—
- The Court: The witnesses have been separated, but there
is no law at any time that prevents anyoné from talking
to anybody except your clients. Mr. Parsons has no right
to talk to your clients. They afe defendants in the case.
’ Now, that is as far as I am going to go, and I want it under-
F;
A
stood in the record that I am not going to nursemaid every
witness.
Mr. Koutoulakos: Well, vour Hoaor—
The Court: Now, the jury js out. You have made very
insistent demands about my guarding these witnesses. -
do not. propose to do it. Now, I am not going to instruct
them to do anything. I am not going to-get in a position
_ where you can eome in and say that this witness or some
(fol. 365] other witness was seen talking to somehody, and
then I have .to have a lot of ancillary proceedirigs that have
nothing to do with the case aad possibly get into a mistrial.
You may talk to the witness, Mr. Parsons may talk to the -
witness, anybody can talk to the witness during the luncheon
recess, ag far as-I am concerned. | do not care to talk to
them. I want to eat lunch. Now, there is another matter’
that I want to take up—te which I have so culed and to
which vou take an exception to. -
Mr: Koutoulakos: Which one is that?
The Court: Yon take an exception to my not advising
the witness that he cannot talk to anybody. d am not going
to nursemaid anybody.
s ; | * os a . °. =
{ fol. 368] Mr. Koutoulakos: Now, your Honor, I just
want to explain my position on the other request, and I am
not saying this—certainly, I bow té you whatever the Court
says, but in every case I have ever been in the Judges have
always instructed the Witnesses, especially when they are
on the stand, that ‘the ‘y are not to ise ‘uss their testimony
with anybody else. 3
The Court: W ell, Mr. Koutoulakos, you have a different
Jule, and I am not going to—I have been through too
many of these cases and T know exactly what happens. A’
witness goes out of here, and he can be talking about the
‘fol. 369] weather, but if he opens his mouth—and it is
-impossible that this witness or any other witness will not
talk to somebody. Of course, they are going to talk to some-—
body—if he opens his mouth, then I say to you,.he-is in a ie
jam, because, right away, vou will have somebody following
* him during the luncheon recess and come back in afd say,
“Well, he was seen talking to so and so.” | tell him he can.
taik to anybody. He can talk to you, he can takk to Mr.
52
Parsons, he can talk to anybody. 1 do not want to talifto
him. ‘I am going to lunch. 7
Mr. Koutoulakos: All right, sir. Then you are not in-
-structing him—I am talking about the case or his testimony
—that’s all I aminterestedin. | pee
The Court: You can talk to him, you can ask him whom
he talked to during the luncheon recess. I have no objection
fe that. That is permissible. “You can cross-examine to
your heart’s cgntent, but you’ are not going to get me in &
position wheré I have to’ instruct every: one of these wit-
*, nesses not to open their mouth. ae .
c
y-
. 2 * * ry * o.
;
[fol. 395] Arriur R. Epmonps, called as a witness by and
on behalf of the Government, having been duly sworn,
“ testified as follows: .
Direct examination.
: By Mr. Parsons:
_Q. Mr. Edmonds, I wonder if you would state your name,
sir, and where you live. ee:
A. Arthur Raleigh Edmonds; I.live.at 8941 Old Ocean
- _ View Road,‘Norfolk, Virginia. )
What is your occupation, sir?
. lamin the Navy.
What is your rate or rank, sir?
A D1. if
And that is first class?
. First class, yes, sir. ee
. Mr. Edmonds, I call your attention to the evening of
May 29th at approximately ‘six -o’clock on that day, and
ask you if you will relate to the jury what, if anything,
transpired on that evening, sir.
A. About a quarter of six on the evening of the 29th I
went up toeMr. Barwick’s Hardware to get some nails, 4.
couple of pounds of nails, and I went in. I spoke to Mr.
Sturgis there and told him I wanted a couple of pounds of
nails. He went in the back to get the nails,.and I saw Mike
{ fol. 396] Milanovich and I spoke to him.
OPOoProro
~
A
53
(). Now, had you known Mr, Milanovich before that time?
A. Yes, I was stationed with him.
Q. All right, sir, proceed.’
“A. Ard he was-talking to Mr. Barwick—asked him if he
had any bigger screwdriver than what he had in the tray
there. Mr. Barwick says, “No, that’s the biggest one T
have,” and I said, “Well, I have one you can use, Mike, at
my house.” Ie said, “want one that I can put a wrench on
and turn it.” Psaid, “We ll, that’s*whaf I’ve got.” He says.
“No,” he says, “I will get one. I want to get one of my own
so I will have it. I need it.” I said, “Al ge ”
Q. All right, sir. Did Mr. Milanovich s anything else
during the tts ae of that conversation ! ?
A. No, sir.’
Q. When you did see Mr, Milanovic h, was he accompanied
by other people at that time? q
A. Yes, there were two more gentlemen in the store, but
“I didn’t know whether they. were with Mr. ‘Milanovich or
, not.
Q. You did not. Did you see him leave?
“A. No, sir, I didn’t see hii leave..
. Mr. Parsons: All right, sir. Answer any questions coun-
- might have. ; .
(fol. 400) Mr. Parsons: If youe Honor please, I would
like to call Howard Kenneth Bruce.
‘Mie ARD Aisles Bruce, called as a witness by and ‘on
behalf of the Government, having been duly sworn, testified
as follows:
Direct examination. -
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Mr. Bruce, will you. state your name and your present
address, sir. |
A. Howard Kenneth Bruce, Twin Oaks Trailer wart, Du :
Bois, Pennsylvania.
€
a
7%
54
‘
[fol.401] Q. Were you forinerly in the United States
Navy, sir?. : “
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And when were you discharged?
A. October 29, 1958. -. ™
.Q. When did you join, when aid you go into the Navy? >
A. October 29, 1956.
Q. All right, sir. Now, where were you stationed in
June of.1958! Ss
_ A. Little Creek, Virginia. .
Q. I call your attention to June 2, 1958, and ask you what,
if any, duties you had 6n that date?
“A. I Was sentry on the main gate at that time. I was on
‘the watch from two o’clock in the afternoon till ten at night.
- Q. I wonder if ¥ou would tell the jury whether or not
you had any instructions’on that night, sir?
_A. Yes, sir, I did. IT was instructed to stop any and every
vehicle that came through and to be especially alert for a
black Oldsmobile—a 1957 Oldsiuobile it was, black. —
Q. All right, sir.
The Court: This was on June 2nd? |
Mr.-Parsons: Yes, sir.
[fol. 402] The Witness: Yes, sir.
By Mr. Pa rsons ;
Q. And on that night did. you stop ‘any motor vehicles
answering that description? ,
A. Yes, sir; it Was in the evening, about 4:30, five —
that I stopped a black Oldsmobile.
Q. I wonder‘if you would dese sig as well as you can,
the type of ‘automobile it was?
A. It was a hlack Oldsmobile, and I yor the lady driv-
ing if it was a '57, and she said, no, it was.a 1956.
Q.. All right, sir, & ahead.
A. I remember the sticker nunber on it was N.A. s., CPO
Sticker Nuniber 3525. ‘I remember that particularly because
we were supposed: to look for number 3:26, and that re-
sembled-it ‘so close that it stuck in-my head—this 3525.
Q. Mr. Bruce, I wonder if you would describe how many
people were in the car?
P)
e ‘BS
‘A. There were four people, two men and two women.
Q. Was there anything else in the car?. - < :
A. Yes, sir, there was a little dog. I think it was a Mexi- #
- can Chihuahua. : | a
Q. Was there anything else in the cAr?
A. There were some fishing: poles. ; ;
Q. Can you identify anyone, or if vou will look around
and see if you can identify anyone that vou saw in that ca)
* that.night in the courtroom, or ‘have you seen anybody
(fol. 403] oytside the courtroom that was in that car that
night? =. © aa |
A. Well, I seen some people kind of rang a bell, but to
positively identify them, I couldn't, as
Q. Do you remember what the woman in.the car looked
like? Did she- have any distinguishing features |
A. Well, sir, what | remember, she had sort o dark
mark on one of her cheeks and she was fairly heavy séf, the
woman that was driving. That’s all I ean remember, .
Q. Can vou give a description of the men or the other
woman in the car, sir? ia :
A. There was a woman in the back seat, which I don’t’
remember at all, but two men—one of theni’ was tall—the
one-in the back was tall and sort of thin and the one in the
front was small, medium builds. 9O — ‘.
Mr. Parsons: All right, sir’ Answer any .uvestions that
these gentlenien might have.
Mr. Koutoulakos : ‘Stand up, Mike.
Cross examination.
By Mr. Koutoulakos :
(). Then you did not see this man, from your description ?
A. No, sir, |eouldn't be sure. ci
Q. Thank. you. And this was June 2nd, between four and
fol. 404] five in the afternoon!
A. Yes, sir. ; 4
(). | understand that there was'some kind of a robbery
on the Base which was after that; is that correct?
A. Yes, sir,
<
56
Mr. Koutoulakas: Thank you, son. =
Mr. Parsons: Just one question. —
ce means
By Mr. Parsons:
~ Q. He ‘said afternoon. “Was it in ‘the afternoon or was
it at night?
A. It was in the evening, sir.
Q. In the evening?
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Parsons: All right. : |
Recross examination.
- By Mr. Koutoulakos:
Q. I meant four or five 0 ‘clock. That was the time, wasn’t
it?
A. It was wr een 1600 and 1700 in the afternoon.
Q. That is Navy talk. We know what it means,
the jury that is between four and five. _ 1600 is four o’cloc
[fol. 405] . A. In the afternoon. °
Q. And 1700 is five o’clock? .
7 A. In the afternoon.
2 And I said that; is that right?
. (Witness nods head. )
° . The Court: Anything further of Mr. Bruce?
- Mr. Parsons: Nothing’ further from the Government,
-your Honor.
The Court: May he he excused?
Mr. Koutoulakos : Yes, sir.
The Court: Thank you, Mr. Bruce. *
» The Court: Next witness.
_ Mr. Parsons: I would like to call Vondi Spratt.
a
57
Vonpt Spratt, pn as a witness by end-on behalf of
the Government, having been duly sworn, testified as fol-
lows:
Direct examination.
. By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Mr. Spratt, would you state your name, sir, and where
[fol. 406] you are stationed.
A. Vondi Spratt, U. S. Naval Amphibious Base, Little
Creek, Virginia.
‘ The Court: Mr. Spratt, would you lean forward a little
bit so he can see your lips.
. By Mr. Parsons:
Q. And were you statidned deni in June of 1958, sirt
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I call your attention to June 2, 1958, and ask you, sir,
what your duties were on that day?
A.. Well, I was on the 2:30 to 10 :30 watch at the main
— gate.
Q. Do you recall any special activities on that particular
_watch, sirt
“a: Ww ell, we juststopped a car.
Q. Do you remember anything about the car, sir?
A. Well, it was a.’56 black Oldsmobile. That’s all I re-
member.
- Q. Did you observe anyone in the car?
A. No, sir.
Q. W ho actually stopped the ear, do you recall?
A. Bruce. - eae .
oe Parsons: Bruce. All right, sir. Answer any ques.
tions counsel might have.
[fol.407] The Court: “This witness tnay be excused, I
6
take it?.
Mr. Parsons: Yes. : ef:
The Court: All right, you maybe excused.
*
The Court: Next witness.
’ Mr. Parsons: Mr. Cahill.
r
‘
| Jon~ Micneat Cauitt, called as a witness by and on
behalf of the Government, having been duly sworn, testi- .
fied as follows:
Direct examination.
- By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Mr. Cahill, Iw onder if you would state your name and
your address, sir.
A. John Michael Cahill, : 276 Merman Road, Akron, Ohio.
Q. What is your oce upation now, sir? !
A.W orking for O“Mar Bakeries.
Q. All right, sir. Were you a seomneyay 4 in the United States .
Navy?
- A, Yes,’sir. .
[fol. 408] Q. When were you ahectesivapiat
A. October 6, 1958. |
Q.: When did you g6 on ditty with the Navy?
A. October 7, 1954. /
Q. Were you formerly stationed at Little Creek, Virginia,
at the Amphibious ‘Base?
A, Yes, sir.
.Q. Were you so dainasa in June’ of this year!
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I call your attention to the evening and early morning ©
hours of June Ist and 2nd, sir, and ask you if you recall,
what your duties were that night, sir? °
A. Iwasa sentry at Gate 3. I chad the mid-watch, the nes
night watch.
Q. Where ‘s Gate 3, sirt .
A. It’s—it's the last gate down Highw ay 60 into the Base. °
Q. I wonder if you would tell the jury if you made any
observations on that evening of any unusual activity on that.
gate,sir? |
A. Well, between 3:00 and 3\30 that morning, a ’56 or
"57 Oldsmobile went out the gate, and there was a man and - ;
give women in it, and Crowder, the sentry I was standing
_ 59
with, he waved them out. The man showed his I.D. card and
Liberty.Card, and I- was standing directly behind Crowder, .
[fol.409] and we-wondered what a man and two women
were doing aboard the Base at that time, and then they
went out and they went--turned left on Highway 60, which
is east, and then we noticed them going back, going west,
on Highway 60 again down’ towards the main gate, but
‘whether they turned.in the main gate or not, I-don’t know.
Then a few minutes later, again we noticed that the car |
was going east on Highway 60 again. Then at four o’clock
in the morning this same ca: that went out. between 3:00 -
and 3:30 came back in, and it had just two women in the
ear, and the woman that was driving the ear, she stopped
on the outside lane and showed ine her L.D. card and I waved ©
her on through. os . =
Q. Do_yow recall. what the man in the car originally
_ looked like, sir? )
A. No, sir, I couldn't. . .
Do’you recall what.the women in the car looked like?
» No, sir, Iean’t. . ea
What type of a car was it, if you recall?
D6 or ’57 black Oldsmobile. Sees
Did it have any type of decal or sticker on it?.
. .
. It had an N. A. S. decal on it.
Mr. Parsons: All right, sir. Answer any questions
counsel might have. ie |
Mr. Koutoulakos: -Just one question.
POPOLO
.
(fol. 410] : Cross examination.
By Mr. Koutoulakos: ;
Q. I understand there were two women, you say, and one
man? - . :
A. That went out between 3:00 and 3:30 in the morning.
The Court: May Mr. Cahill be excused, gentlemen?
Mr. Parsons: Yes, sir, he may be excused. '
60,
of the GoveFpment having been duly. sworn, testified as
follows: \
Direct examination. |
Roserr J. sens called as a-witness by’and on behalf.
e/\ By Mr. arsons:
Q. I wonder if yo would give four name and where you
‘are presently stationed, Mr. Bouvier. :
’ A. My name is.Robert Joseph. Bouvier and I am stationed
~ at Little Creek Amphibious Base.
- The Court: Can you speak a little louder, please? Robert
J oseph what?
[fol.411] The Witness: Bouvier.
The Court: Bouvier.
The Witness: And T am stationed at Little. Creek Am-
phibious Base. |
By Mr. Parsons: . “J
. Were you so stationed in June of this yeart we.
Me es, sir.
Q. I call your attention, sir, to the morning of June nd,
and ask what your duties were on that morning, if you
recall? -
. A. Thad the wateh on the main ate at Little Creek Am-
_ phibious Base.
- Q. I wonder if you would tell the jury if you noticed any
unusual aetivities, and if so, what time you Hoticed them, ,
at that gate, sir?
A. I’d say. at approximately a 3:00 and 4:00 a
certain car came through the gate. There was a man in it
_and two women, They came in the gate and about-—I’d say
approximately fifteen minutes left the gate, came back up.
Q.. All right, sir. Do you recall the kind of automobile
it was?
A. Yes, sir, it was.a’57 black Oldsinabile.
_ Q. Now, can you describe the i ad wlio w-re in the ear,
sir? |
A. To my , know ledge, all I could say, ax far as the
[ fol. 412] description, would be that—there was an elderly
61.
man—I’d say about forty: years old or over—and he was
heavy set. That’s all I could tell about the .people, and
the women, 4 couldn’t give a description on them..
_ Mr. Parséns: Could I take an exception off the record
of being old at forty years old. '
Mr. Koutoulakos: ©] want the sane thing for the record:
By MF. Parsons: ‘ he .
Do. you recall whether orfot any of these individuals
ha . Navy identification on them? Les
A. Wes, the driver had a Navy I.D. card, which would be
enlisted. ee
\
Mr. Parsons: All right, sir. Answer any questions coun- |
sel might have. : ; oe.
Mr. Koufoulakos: No questions, except be-careful whom
you call old. ,
The Court: May Mr. Bouvier be excused?
Mr. Parsons: Yes, sir, he may. —
J fol. 413] Lioxer O. Crowper, called as a witness by and
on behalf of the Geyernment, having been duly sworn, tes-
tified as follows : ;
>
e ‘
‘~« .
.
Direct examination.
By Mr. Parsons:
a 3 2 ;
Q, Mr. Crowder, would you state your name and where
you are presently stationed, sir. . : ° 7 "
A. Well, my name is Lioner Owen Crowder, stationed at
the Amphibious Base at Little Creek.
The Court: Can you raise your voice, please, Mr. Crow-
der, - 38
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. And were you stationed there in June of this year, sir?
A. Yes, I was. . zm ;
Q. T call your attention to the late evening hours of June
’
62 ; a “a : : »
1st, the early morning hours of June 2nd, one ask ‘you, sir,
what your post of duty was?
A. My post of duty was a sentry on outgoing traffic at
' Gates. |
Q.. Did You notice any unusual activity during 3 your tour
‘of duty, and if ‘so, what time?
A. Yes, I did—not very unusual, but—there wasn’t much
‘traffic that night, and there was a car that made a few extra
trips through the. gate, you might say, and on U. S. 6
[fol. 414] Highway. — . ‘
Qi wonder if you would teil the jury what you observed :
this car do, sirt?, :
_ A. Well, I qbserved the car had come ‘Gueh. the gate.
It.was in ‘the early hours of the morning—I don’t recall
exactly what time it Was—but there were two women in
~ the ear, and after certain hours aboard the Base—I think
it’s one o’clock—women guests are not allowed aboard the
Base unless they dre accompanied by a male guest, and then
I think it’s an officer only, and the other sentry had the
. incoming traffic, and I called his notice to om.
Q. Did they get on the Base?
A. They did. -
Q. Did you see this car or These people again that eve-
ning?
N Yes, I did. I:saw them come back out the gate and
accompanied with acmale.
Q: They hid a man with Gant
~~ * Yes, sk. *
\Q. Did you see the car after that again?
A. I.saw a car. I = not know whether it was exactly -
* fhe same car or not, but it was like the car that I had passed
through the gate. .[1t was on U.S, 60 going east.
Q. Can you recognize or have you recognized none that
was in that car since you have been here? .
(fol. 415] A. No, I have not.
Mr. Parsons: All right, thank you very much. Answer
any questions counsel might have.
Cross examination.
‘By M r. Koutoulakos :
"
Q. Just-a minute. Do I understand you to say that- in
order to get in at that time he had to be an officer, whoever
‘ the man was?” ;
A. To come aboard, ves. ;
Q. To-come aboard, you mean on the Base?
° A. To go ashore, nobody has to be— Ba
Q. Coming aboard, is that what they were doing? __
. Yes. oY 2g
Q. And there had to be an officer with them in order to
gain. admittance?
A. Yes. |
Q. That is a Navy officer?
Ay Any officer, > a4
Q. You mean Army or Air Corps, but it had-to be an :
officer? .
‘A. It had to be, but there was not—
Q:. You say there had to be? ae
A. Yes. '
* (fol. 416] . Mr. Koutouldkos: That is all. =
The Court: I take it Mr. Crowder may be excused, gentle-
men?
Mr. Parsons: Yes, sir. Mr. Anderson will be the next
witness, if your Honor please.
Conxruvs R. Axbersox, called as a witness by and on
behalf of the Government, having heen duly sworn, testified
as follows: a, :
Direct examination. .
By Mr. Parsons: et
. Q. Mr. Anderson, I wender if you would state your name, —
sir, your occupation and where you are stationed.
\ A. Cornelius R’ Anderson, Special Agent with the Fed-—
eral Bureau of Investigation. aie :
~
‘ >».
>. ~ .
. .
.
. %
64 . :
Q. Mr. Anderson, did you participate in the investiga-
tion that culminated in the charges against Virginia and
Mike {filanovieh S .
A, I did.
Q. I call your attention, sir, to approximately June 19th,
sir, and ask what, if any, investigation you made on that
day? :
[fol,417] A: On the morning of June 19th of this year
at 8032 Webb Court, the home of Mike and Virginia Milano-
vich, we conducted a search Se the premises. During the |
course of the search I found, if the closet, directly opposite
the dining room; a lady’s handbag which contained approxi-
mately thirty-one pounds of silver. .
By the Court:
Q. May I inquire in advance, was the search conducted,
Mr. Anderson, pursuant to a search warrant?
A. Consent to search, your Honor. |
Q. Consent to search? |
A. Yes, sir. Ce
~ ;
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. All right, sir, go ahead. .
A. As I was saying, in the lady’s handbag was found
approximately thirty-one pounds of silver. Some of the
‘ silver was in wrappers bearing the National Bank of Com-
merce stamp. ,
Q. I wonder if you can locate and identify the bag that
you found there, sir?
A. | can, That is the bag on the table (pointing).
6
| fol. 582] - Doxswa Grimmer, called as a witness by and on
behalf. of the Government, t, having: been duly sworn, testi-
fied as follows: QR
Ss i i i 1 . - w
Direct sieieaiien,
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Mrs. Grimmer, I wonder if you would state your name
_ and your present address, please.
{ fol. 533) A. Donna Grimmer, 535 North Lima Road.
Q. The acoustics are bad in here. | wonder if you could
speak just.a little louder. They also want to hear you. Mrs.
Grimmer, | believe your husband is ‘Clayton Thomas Grim-
mer; is that correct?
A. Yes. of
Q. And how long have you all been niarried, Mrs. Grim-
mer? .
A. Oh, about a year and a half. * —
Q. And during that time was Mr. Grimmer arrested and
did he plead guilty to certain criminal charges?
A. Yes. . | 3
Q. All right. Now, Mrs. Grimmer, after his arrest—and
- Teall your attention to—ihe exact time, I do not know—but
do you recall meeting with a man named Ben Guerrieri?:
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall the place that you all met?
A. Yes. ‘
Q. What was the city that you met him in?
A. That I met Ben Guerriezi?.
Q. Yes.
A. I met him in—
?
.
“a
.
Mr. Davis: If your Honor please, we cannot hear the
witness.
The Court: No. Pleak¢ ‘raise | yoice, if you will.
[ fol. 534] Lean ne a little bit and speak just as loud
as you can.
A. You say, where did I meet Ben Guerrieri!
“
66 .
_ By Mr. Parsons: ;
Q. Yes.
A, I met him in Youngstown.
Q. All right. Now, sometime after your husband was
'
arrested did Mr. Gue rrieri come by and pick } you up at ad
time? ° |
|:
Q. What was the occasion of him picking you up. Mrs.
* Grimmer?
A. It was supposed to be a meeting in Cleveland.
Q. A meeting of whom?
A. Milanoviches and Ben and myself.
Q. All right. Now, w here did he pick | you up, Mrs.
Grimmer?
On Martin Street. }
Where did you proceed! That was in Y oungstownt
In Youngstown.
Where did you proceed to from there?
. To Cleveland.
Where did yot go in Cleveland?
To Ann’s house. |
Do you know her full name?
. No, I don’t.
(fol. 535] -Q. And who was present at the bones at et
time Mrs. Grimmer? — ;
_It was Ann, Steve, Ben— -
Steve Milanavich? ws
Yes. .
And who else?
. Bennie.
. That is Bennie Guerrieri?
Myself. .
Yourself?
Myself and Millie.
Millie? .
. Yes.
Millie Gauger?
I believe that’s her name.
Was anyone else present?
PePererer”
DrOroreopororerk |
7 "
67
A. AndBarbara. _
Q. And whois Barbarat-
_A.- She is my girl friend.———
Q. Are those all of the people that were present?
A. That's all the people that were presemt, except Ann’s
daughter, and she was there half the tinie, running in and
out. ae:
Q. If I may recap, it was you and Ben Guerrieri?
A. Right. . —
| fol. 536] Q. Steve Milanovich?
A. Right. | . :
Q. “Big Ann”? | zs
A: Yea. cae
Q. And Barbara, and somewhere in the house there was
-agirl. Are those all of the people that were there? .
A. That’s all that were there. i."
Q. All right. What transpired at that meeting?
A. It was supposed to:be a meeting. I don’t know what
it was all about myself. It was talking abdut the—
Mr. Koutoulakos: Your Honor, I do not mind her testi-
fying to the threat, but any other hearsay I object to. I
think the threat should be explained, if there was one, and
the jury can decide whether there was one or wasn’t one,
‘but as to any other hearsay, I am going to object.
———————
a
By Mr: Parsons: > ,
Q. What happened at fat meeting?
The Court: Wait a minute now, Mr. Parsons. Of course,
what initially prompted this testimony that’ would be
brought in by this witness would be the referred to “state-
ment™ of Grimmer signed on November Sth, which was |
brought into evidence by the defendant, but would that *
|fol. 537) not be hearsay— |. ° a
Mr. Parsons: Well— ~~ °,
The Court: —other than— ;
Mr. Parsons: If your Honor please, | was going to ask
her one more question. . a
The Court: I know—you asked her what happened at
the.meeting, and that covers a multitude of sins,
- Q You tried to ll who wasthere? — . ¢
ts
68
Mr. Parsons: That . is exactly right, but this witnéss is
—not ee on the stand what’ I was itiformed she would
‘state.
° Mr. Kisteulibes : That is exactly right.
The Court: Wait a minute.,I do not care. What differ-
ence does it make? I am interested now in whether or not
the evidence—I think she can testify to any @ceed threat, !
if any, that may have been made.
Mr. Parsons: I w ould like to ask her one quéation, your
Honor. ae ee ; a
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Was Virginia Milanovich at that meeting?
A. Yes. . °
Mr. ee ee Now, your: Honor, he hes impeached:
[ fol. 538] his own witness. ‘She said the only people there
—I objeet to that. ~. °
-- The Court: I know she said that, and that is for the
jury to determine.
By the Court: - . ase,
(). Why didn’t yoy say Virginia Milanovich was prenent
when Mr. Parsons asked you before? os :
A. I said “Lee”. ; pe
Q. Whatisthat? . :
A. Well, I tried to tel] him.
Mr. Davis: We cannot-— .
By the Court:
A. Who exactly: yas there.
Q: Well, you did not mention the name Virginia Milan.
ovich. Why ‘didn’t you?”
A. She was there. es
Q. I know she was there, so you say, but you did not
say so before. Now, what we want is the. truth.
A. Lam a the truth. |
The Court: ion if we do not on the truth, we wilf hold
you here’ afterwards. Now, from now on, let's have all
the facts, and that is all we want.
By Mr. Parsons: maar ie 2
* Did you talk with “Virginia. Milanoyjelr at that, meet-
ing, Mrs. Grimmer? ; .
[fol. 539] - A. Yes. ‘
Q. What, if anything, did she say to you concerning any
activities your husband was involved in?
A. She said that if my husband testifies, that she would
put a gun to iny head and kill me—against Mike. |
Mr. Parsons: Thank you, Mrs. Grimmer. Answer any
questions any other counsel might have. :
Mr. Koutoulakos:. Just one or two questions. Let her —
compose herself. aoe 7 ;
_Cross examination. A‘
>
By Mr. Koutoulakos:
Q. Do -you want to use a handkerchief? Get yourself
composed. Nobody is going to hurt you: Here, wipe it off.
Get ahold of yourself now. Just relax,
A. Okay.
Q. Now, didn’t you tell four husband that the person that
Was going to stick—that did put a gun to your, head was
Steve? :
A." No, Steve was there at the time. When she said that,
he just kept saving, “Yes, yes.” No one put a gun to my .
head. They-said they would put a gun to my head.
_Q. But you did not make the statement to your husband
.that it was Steve who was supposed to have done it?
(fol.540] A. No, I told him that Steve was there and
' that Steve just kept saying, “Yes; y yes,” you know. He was
drinking. Steve was drinking at the time.
Q. But you did not tell your husband, again, that it was
Steve that did it?
A. No, Steve didn’t put no. gun to niy head.
70 eae at a>
Q. Now, after this so-called meeting—I assume that you
were f rightened? ay -
A. Yes. 7
Q. Especially of y irginia? I perf she had camient
you and you were f rightened; is that right! 7
A. Yes.
Q. Didn’t you later, after thet so-called meeting, spend
some time in her house with Steve? ? |
A. In her house after that meéting? an
Q. Yes. oa ‘.
A. No, I was never in eee house after that meeting.
- Q. When was the date of that meeting?
A. I don’t know the date of the. meeting, but it was after
Clay was going to plead guilty. I was in Norfolk, Virginia,
one more time, and my mother come with me. and I was in -
- the hotel.
Q. But you deny—
A. I didn’t even go to her haat.
Q. You deny spending some. time in their house, -
[ fol. 541) with ‘Steve?
A. Before.
Q. After, w ‘ith Stevet I do not mean it ina smart sense.
A. No.
Q. I mean you were there with Steve while he was there!
A. I was never with Steve. .
. Q. I do not mean as a date. I mean whilé he was present
and you were present-in the Milanovich home.
- Mr. Parsons: What time, Mr. Koutoulakos? >
Mr. Koutoulakos: .This is after the meeting. J] just want
her to say whether she was or wasn’t.
Az After the meeting? |
* By Mr. Koutoulakos:
9 Q. Yes.
A. I was in Cleveland. I never was in her house, no, after
thé meeting.
Q. Now, when was the next time that you saw your hus-
band after this meeting?
A. Isawhimin Atlanta. . :
A ae
. = *
.
.% _ .
a * . > ~
eens
® ._*
° . “2
:
~~
Q. And when was tliat? 2 «8
x. That was—Idon’t know the exact date. » €
-Q. Was it in November or October, or ‘when? s _-
‘[fol.542] . A. November, October, somewhere around there
¢ —way-overarmonth. - :
Q. Way over a month ago?
A. Yes, it’s been way overa month.
Q. Pardon? © ee 3
A. It’s been way over a month. .
Q. But, i in any event,.you néver saw Mike there?
A. Mike? Where, up at Cleveland?
Q. Yes.
A. Mike was not there.
Q. After your husband pleaded guilty, do you have any
idea when that was, what date that wus? ¥ as that in
June, or if you know?
A. No, Thave no idea what day it was. -
Q. When you arrived here the first time, as I understand
it, you came here to see your husband because he was in
trouble; is that correct? .
. AL Yes.
Q.. And how long did you stay in the Norfolk area?
A. T don’t know.’ It was about four days, something like
that. I don’t know.
Q. Four days? - :
A. Something like that. :
Q. Well, wasn’t your hushand—
. A. We stayed atthe hotel and) then I went over to her
* [fol. 543] house.
S Whose house?
A. Milanoviches’ house. ,
Q. Now, how long did your husband stay in this area,
if P ng know, before he was sent to prison, wherever that
Ww
A.. It was ‘from then—when he was picked up until—I
think it was either the end of Jujy or August, ‘something
like that. ~~
- Q. And did you remain here for that whole period? —
. A. No,I didn’t. I kept coming back and forth.
2 So you were coming baek and forth?
‘A. Yes, I'was coming back and forth.
a
%
LG
7 . . 3
72 ‘" @
outside again.
o
4;
Q: During ce, eae back and forth, after your husband
had pleaded guilty, were you accompanied by Stevet +
A. Was I accompanied by Steve? ,
I mean, would he fly in‘the same plane with you to
Cleveland and.did he come back in the sare plane?
A. He vent back on the same plane with me to Cleveland
when I was stay ing ‘at the Milanoviches’ house.
Q. But he was in the same plane with you? >
A. Hé was in the same plane, yes.
Q, Nothing happened to you? en ‘
. A. Nothing happened to me, no. :
_Mr. Koutoulakos: No further questions. -
oe 544] The Court: Anything further of this witness?” .
_ Mr. Parsons: Nothing further, your Honor. -
The Court: May she be excused? oo
Mr. Parsons:- As far as the Government is concerned,
your Honor, she may.
The Court: Would the defense counsel desire her pres-
ence any, longer? :
Mr: Koutoulakos : Your Hoaot,: we want hier here for
’ when we put on dur evidefice—just have her excluded.
Mr. Parsons: All right.-- Mrs. Grimmer, will you step
Mr. + Parsons: Mr. Smith, take the stand, please.
?
Huon J. Smirs, called’ as a witness by and on behalf
of the Government, having been —" aver, testified as.
' follows:
The. Court: Gentiemen, Mr. Smith is going to be @
lengthy ‘witness, isn’t he? .
[f6l.545] Mr. Parsons: Sir?
The Court: I take it Mr. Smith is going to bea lengthy |
witness, or‘is he? ©
Mr.’ Parsons; If your Honor’ please, I do not know
whether he is going to be lengthy or not—-not on the part
of the Government.
The Court: Alleright, he will not. be. We will carry
through on the direct examination before we take a recess.
‘
Sa al
“—_ .
. e -— &
. ‘ e '
. °
o A . . . a
°
73
a
Direct examination.
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Mr. Smith, will you ‘state your name, sif, your oceu- .
pation and where you reside. . © F
» A. Hugh J. Smith, Special Agent, Federal Bureau of In-.
vestigation; L reside i in Norfolk, Virginia. | ~
“ .Q. Mr. Smith, were you charged with some of the re- o.\
* sponsibility of investigating certain charges against—or
investigating the robbery at the Naval Air Station and did
you alse participate in the—I beg your pardon—at the
“Amphibious Base and participate in the investigation at
the Air Station? , +? ee |
‘A. Yes, I did. . ; ;
Q. After some time, at se participate i in the ssiieiiy
, (fol. 546] of the Milanovith home at 8032 Webb Court?
A. Yes, I did.” |
.Q..All right, sir. I. wonder: if you would tell the jury
just what 3 you found in that search, sir? *. -
- A.- Well, in the bedroom, the guest bedroom, of the Mi-
lanovich home, I found a tan Towncraft suitcase, and in
this suitcase was a bag of silver, silver money—some of it
in National: Bank éf Commerce wrappers. x
Mr. Parsons: Your Honor, excuse me. We are bringing °
the bag ‘in.. It is locked i in thé Clerk’s = your Honor.
; - A,
» By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Go ahead. 7
A. And*some of it in loose: change and also iy this suit- 2:
case was two revolvers which were loaded, and unlbaded
by me.
Q. I hand you a hie sir, with objects i in it. | wonder if
you would tell the jury what isyin the box? .Take them
“out one at a time and ideritify them. if you can.
A. This is a Cobra, .38 Special, Serial No. 40269, which
was one of the guns, and it was unloaded by me.
Mr. Parsons:. I would like to offer that. sir, as Goyern- |
* ment’s Exhibit No. 65.
The Court: Let it be admitted. ' ;
“ Mr. Koutoulakes: That is what he Tound?
/ ay °
‘
74 .
[fol. 547] By Mr. Koutoulakos:
Q. You put.the identification yourself?
A. Yes.
Mr. Koutéulakos: Okay, no objection.
“By Mr. Koutoulakos : :
Q. How about this piece here?
A. Yes. These were sent up to the nein for. test
firing, and we sealed them when we got thenr back.
’ By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Identify the other gui
A. This is a .38 caliber Detective Special, Serial No.
| 422509, which was also in the suitcase and loaded.
Mr. Parsons: I offer that as Government's Exhibit No.—
The Court: 66.
(The Cobra, .38 Special, Serial No. 40269 and the .38
Detective’ Special, Serial No. 422509 were marked and re-
ceived in evidence as Government’s Exhibit: Noa. 65 and 66,
respectively. ss
f The Court: Mr. Smith, are those revolvers unloaded
now? . :
‘The Witness: Yes, they are.
The Court: You have checked them. J ust like to boake
[fol. 548] that is all.
3
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Mf. Smith, did you take supervision over all of the .
- money that was collected at the Milanovich home at that
time?
A. After it was brought to the office, I direeted—
_Q. Go ahead.
_- A. I diregted an agent—two agents to make a count of
this. ‘money, and I also assisted-in the. count of the money
that was in that Towneraft bag.
Q. I wonder if you would step down, sir, and tell, if
you ean, where this bag was located, and you might, sir,
if you want to exhibit—I believe this bag is locked.
?
75
A. This money is not as it was.found.. We took it from
_ the paper bag that it- was in in-the suitcase.
The Court: Speak to the jury, if-you ‘will. .
A. We took it out of the paper bag that it was in in
the suitcase and put it in these National Bank of Commerce
bags,.which we got from the National Bank of Commer
ourselves; and also the money from the beige overnig
bag in here now. This is the total of the money that.was
found on June 19th. - -°,
Mr. ‘Koutoulakos: Your Honor, I think the record—I
think he already stated that it did not come in the bag and
(fol. 549] they are not part of the evidence:
The Court: He has stated that he or-some othr-agent
of the F, B. I. secured the National Bank of Commerce
bags, and they are placed ‘in' there for your convenience for
holding the money. . ae .
The Witness: ‘Yes, sir, that’s right,
- By. Mr. Parsons:
.Q. These are the bullets? : rade aes
A. These are the bullets, the .38 caliber cartridges, that.
were taken from the two pistols that have been entered.
Q. Mr. Smith, is this the bag that’ you recovered, sir,
and if so, where? ; TE aie
A. Yes, this is the suitcase that was recovered by’ me
‘in the guest bedroom of 8032 Webb Court. .- ~ |
Mr.*Parsons: All right, sir. If -your Honor please, we
would like to exhibit this to the jury, but we do not offer
it in evidence inasmuch as the money should:be kept -in
, custody and ultimately returned to the United States Navy.
_ The Court: The suitcase couldibe introduced in evidence,
and as far 4s the money is concerned, I think it should be
removed and placed at least in Some bank depository un-/ -
[fol. 550] less counsel can agree that it can be réturned |
to the Navy at this time. : a
_ Mr. Koutoulakos: Your Honor, we are not claiming the
money, so I—I don’t know whose it is: ae
The Court: You wish to offer the suitcase in evidence?
Mr. Parsons, do you wish to offer the suitcase in evidence?
76 -
Mr. Parsons: Yes, sir.
The Court: Without the money?
Mr. Parsons: Yes, sir.
The Court: All right, let the suitcase be marked as
Government’s Exhibit No. 67.
(The suitcase was marked and received in evidence as
Government’s Exhibit No. 67.)
By Mr. Parsons: .
Q. The newspapers, Mr. Smith, were put in too—
A.. They were also put in by us.
' Q. —by you all?
A. For convenience of handling.
Q. I notice there seems to be a liandkerchief in here.
A. That was in there. I believe that mee to Mr.
{fol. 551] Grimmer.
Mr. Parsons: The Marshal will kindly remove the money.
The Court: Now, the money will be turned over to the
Marshal. I take it it has been counted, Mr. Smith? °
_ Mr. Parsons: Yes, sir.
_ The Witness: Yes, sir.
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Mr. Smith, I wonder if you would state what the re-
sult of the count was of the amount of money.
A. Well, the total amount of meney found in both bags i
was $999.80, and breaking that down into two amounts,
the amount in the overnight bag and the amount in the
suitcase, the amount in the suitease was $501.60 and the
money in the lady’s overnight case was $498.20, for a total
of $999.80.
The Court: All right. The $999.80 then, by agreement °
of counsel, will be turned ‘over to the Marshal for delivery
back—_ ”
Mr. Parsons: ‘To the Navy, your Honor.
¢
7
(fol. 570) Herman F. Dremonp, recalled as a witness
by and on behalf of the Government, previously duly sworn,
testified further as follows:
; (fol. 586] Redireet examination.
By Mr. Parsons: m
Q. Mr. Drummond, I wonder if you would state.to the
jury when you arrested Mike Milanovich?:
A. Approximately 6:30 a.m. on June 19, 1958.
Q. I wonder if you would state when you interviewed him, -
sir? Jess
A. I interviewed him on the same date.
Q. Was that after he was arrested? *
A. After he was arrested he was interviewed at our— ;
at the F. B. I. office in Norfolk, Virginia. | ,
Q: What, if ‘anything, did you tell him edncerning any
statements he might make, sir? —_ | ; F
A. I told him that he did not have to make any state-
ment; that any statement he made could be used either for
or against him in a court of law; that I was not going
‘to promise him anything or threaten him in any way, and
?
that he had the right to have an attorney, consult an -
‘attorney, before making any statement.
Q. Did he make any contact with an attorney, to your
knowledge, sir?
A. Yes; sir. | e. --
Q. Was he given access to the telephone?
A. Yes, sir. =
Q. Did he make a voluntary statement? A
-‘[fol. 587] A. He did. e+ %
ing? ;
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he sign it?
A. No, sir.
* Q. Why did he not sign it, did he state? - _
- He said he wouldn’t sign it on the advice of his coun-
sel. ate
Q. All right, sir. I wonder if you would now tell the jury,
Q. All right, sir. ‘This statement; was it reduced to writ-
—-
_ Grimmer again canie to his house and. stayed there one
Virginia.
‘or two nights and. Grimmer said he was going to stay
78 ae - P
sir, what the oral statements he made to you were, sir,
generally speaking?
A. Yes, sir. This is dated June 19, 1958, at Norfolk,
The Court: Do ‘not nai the written statement. Mr.
Parsons asked you what the oral statements were.
Mr. Parsons: Perhaps I tould—
The Court: You may refresh your memory from looking
at any notes that you, yourself, ‘may have made, but the
written statement, as such, is‘ not a signed statement and,
therefore, it can only be ‘used by you to such extent, if
any, as it may refresh your memory.
[fol. 588] The Witness: Ald right, sir.
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. I wonder if you would just briefly state—and I be-
lieve these notes were made at the time. and in Mr. Mi-
lanovich’s presence?
A. Yes, sir, they were. :
Q. Will you tell the jury’ what the general text of his
conversation with you was?
A. Mike Milanovich said that sheet April 26, ’58 that
his brother Steve, who lived in Cleveland, Ohio, and. Clay:
ton Grimmer, who. was also fron#®Cleveland or Youngstown,
Ohio, came to his home at 8032 Webb Court in Norfolk,
Virginia, at which time that Grimmer was driving a dark |
colored automobile, either a 1954 Pontiac, Buick or Olds-
mobile. He said that Steve stayed at his home for one
with some relatives who lived in Portsmouth, Virginia.
He didn’t recall loaning his car to Grimmer on this occa-
sion. He said that he owned a 1956 black Oldsmobile which
he used to go back and forth to work in his job. He said
that Steve and Grimmer left his home and returned to
Ohio, place not known, around Monday, April 28; 1958;
and that he recalls that his sister in Cleveland, Ohio, tele-
phonically contacted him and said that Steve was in some
trouble up there. .
He said about three or four days after—after this visit,
{ fol. 589] probably around May 2, 1958, that Claytop
night, and the purpose of this visit. was for him to get
“
z : “f 2
money to help pay an attorney for Steve and assist in
bonding him out, because he had been arrested on a robbery
charge in Ohio.
At this time he said that Grimmer said” that” he had-flown
in from Ohio, traveled to Norfolk via plane, and. on this
trip he stayed only two, or three days. He didn’t recall —
whether it was two days or three days. He said he may
have.loaned him his 1956 Oldsmobile at this time to go
to Portsmouth to ‘visit his relatives, but he was not °sure
of that, and. he said he did not know any of Grimnmer’s
relatives.
- The next time that he saw Grimmer was shel the middle
of May 1958, and he thinks it was probably Thursday,
_ May WB, 1958, or Friday, May 16, 1958, at which time he
went outside his -home towards his carport, and Clayton
Grimmer was at the carport with another man, who
- Grimmer introduced to him as Ben Guerrieri, and he told
Milanavich at that time that this man was a relative—
_ Guerrieri was a relative of the bondsman who was attempt- °
ing to get Steve. out of jail in Ohio. ce \
. By the Court:
Q. Mr. Drummond, may I ask you, how do you spell
that proper name you pronounced as Guerrieri? I think it
may be the same as what has been referred to here by.
[fol. 590] counsel as Guerrieri; iS that correct, gentlemen?”
Mr. Koutoulakos: I could be wrong in the pronunciation,
your Honor. I assume it to be Guerrieri.
A. G-U-E-R-R-L-E-R-I.
Q. Well, that is the same name that has been referred to
as Guerrieri and you may be right in your pronunciation
br maybe they are right, but, anyway, it-is one and the
‘Same person. All right.
A. I spelled it !'ke it sounded at the time, Judge. I didn’t
know how to. spell it.
The Court; All right, you may continue.
A. At the meeting of Guerrieri and Grimmer at- his car-
port at his home,, he was home from lunch at. the Naval
Air Station for twenty or thirty minutes; that after he was
introduced to Ben, he ate his lunch and then went back to .
Je
work at the Naval Air Station, and _said—he recalled, at
that it time, that he told Ben-and Guerrreri—Ben and Grim-
~-méF—excuse me—that he had been unable to raise any
money for bond for his brother Steve, but was still working
on it. He said he did not know at this time where Ben
“Guerrieri or Grimmer were staying, but: he believed they
were staying at a motel. He knew they were not staying
at his home, did not recall the’ name of the motel.
(fol. 591] He said he did not know how Clayten Grimmer |
_ or Ben Guerrieri traveled to Virginia on this trip, but he
_ knows they did not have an automobile.
By. Mr. Parsons:
Q. Did he state that they were both at his house at that
time without an ‘automobile or did he state they both were’
at the house? .
A. I didn’t understand you.
Q. Did he state that both were at his bowne at this time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And they did not have a car?
A. Yes, sir, he did not know how they re there, bat
he knows they did not have a car. . EF ny
Q. All right, sir. What else did he at =: .-
A. Well, he said he knew they did not have a car at his
home at that time..
Q. Yes, that is what I understood. j
A. He said he recalled that Clayton Grimmer went ‘back
to Ohio, probably, Saturday, May 17, 1958. He couldn't
be exact about the date, but he thought that was the date,
and that he thinks that ‘on that day he had duty at the.
Naval Air-Station and that he ‘does not recall seeing him
on the day that he left. .
Q. ‘All right, sir. New, right here, did Mike Milanovich,
. [fol. 592] at that time, tell you anything about being out
of town on May.15th, 16th, 17th, 18th or 19th of May, sir?
A. No, sir. ~
Q. All right, sir. Did you discuss the Naval Air Station
robbery with him?
A. The next thing I discussed with him, did hé have any
knowledge of any robbery or burglary at the Naval Air
Station in Norfolk, Virginia, and he said that the only.
—— 2
eal | 81
__——
knowledge that ‘KE had of this is what he seen in the local -
newspapers and he denied knowitig anything about it. .
Q. Mr. Drummond, was this hammer exhibitea or «kown
to Mr. Milanovich? :
A. Yos,ciee - - a -
Q. What, if anything, did he have to say concerning this -
hammer, sir? ce ; aa
A. He said he had a leadfaced hammer—leadfaced
doubleheaded hammer similar to this one, which had been
slightly used, and was in the bottom of a white, metal
cabinet in a shed in the rear of his carport, and he said he
owned this hammer for six bs seven years, didn’t know
where he got it from, but that it was missing from his car-
port and that he didn’t know where it was, why it was miss-
ing. | are
Q. Was he able to identify this as his hammer? __-
A. No, sir, he didn’t say that was his. He had one similar
to it. a
[fol. 593]' Q. Did you make some inquiry as to the ayail-
ability of this particular type of handle in the Tidewater
area, sir? °
A. Yes, sir..
Q. What were the results of that?
Mr. Koutoulakos: Are you asking him about Mr. Milano-
vich? Foe
Mr. Parsons: No, I am asking him if he made an in-
vestigation as to the availability of this type of hammer. —
The Court: Objection sustained.
Mr. Koutoulakos: Yes, sir.
Mr. Parsons: All right.
By Mr. Parsons: eek
Q. Mr. Drummond, proceed, sir. °
A. Milanovich said that on Sunday, June 1, 1958, he said
he went to Frank Madden's home, who is a chief ‘petty
officer in the United States Navy, and that he got--and ke °
arrived at his home about twelve o'clock noon, and ‘hat
he went over there to discuss matters concerning the Little
League Baseball Team, which he was connected with; that
he had several mixed ‘drinks and that about five*o’clock
he left Madden’s home on that day and he telephoned his
-
*<s-
OR ean a ty
-wife and telling her that he plannéd to go by the CPO
Club at the Naval Air Station. At this time he said his
wife told him that Clayton Grimmer had come in from
‘[ fol. 594] Ohio. He -believes she told him “by plane” and
was at his house. He said he recalls asking his wife what
(jzimmer was there for—*“in reference to Steve?” And she
replied to him, “Yes.” He told his wife to tell Grimmer
that he would be home shortly if he wanted to talk to him.
He alsé said that he told his-wife at this time: to explain
to Grimmer that he had been-unable to raise some money’ .
to go on Steve Milanovich’s bond, and on the same Way he .
arrived home from the CPO Club about 7:00 p.m. and that
he had had ‘right much to drink. He described it as “plenty
to drink.” He said he was tired and sleepy’ and he talked
‘ to Grimmer a few- minutes about his brother Steve. He
talked to.Grimmer a few minutes about his brother Steve,
and this time Grimmer asked him if he could borrow his
1956 Oldsmobile Sedan for the evening to go to erteneae
to see some of his qelarives.
Milanovich said/that he then fell asleep on the davenport
"in the living room and stayed there and slept there until
around four of five in the morning, thé next morning. He
‘said when he awakened the next day he noticed that his—
yes, sir— .
Q. Might I interrupt you? Did he say anything at all
about there being a group ‘of people or a party at his house
hg Ist or the evening of June Ist? |
A. No, sir.
Q. All rig, sir. Then what did he say occurred!
[fd¥. 595] . The next morning, when he awakened, he
saw that se car had been returned and Grimmer was in ,
bed in the guest bedroom of his home by himself. He said
that he recalls that on that morning—called it a Monday
morning—that lie awakened with a hangover and that he,
after he awakened, he got up and cleaned himself up and
went to work at the Naval Air Station about 6:30 a.m. in
_ the morning and that he drove his 1956 Oldsmobilé to work.
He didn’t rotice anything irregular about the car at the
time he used it that morning.
‘When he arrived home ‘that evening about 6:00 p.m., .
he said that.Grimmer was not there and his wife told
him that Grimmer had gone back to Ohio. “He did not know
ee 83
how he traveled back to Ohio at this time. He did recall
‘that his wife told him that’ Grimmer was going te take’
‘a plane, but he said if he did, he didn’t know anything
about that. 7 oces
At this time, either this day or the day following, he
recalled that his wife complained to him-that his car was
dirty as if someone had been.in it with greasy clothes—
greasy and dirty clothes—that he reqalls that his wife
washed the seat covers on this car because they were so
dirty. ae ee
Then about June 11! 1958, he thinks it was a Wednesday,
- June 11, 1958, that he went to his carport to get a large
crescent wrench, which he had to use to start a watering
‘{fol. 596] system that he has in his yard, that he noticed
that this crescent wrench was missing, He said he also
owned a large, heavy duty screwdriver, which‘is, probably
—he described—about ten inches long,'and that -was also
missing and that he also ‘missed a pair of six-inch side
cutting pliers. He said he told his wife. He mentioned this
to his: wife and he complained to her that thes ‘tools were
missing, and he.told her—he accused her of leaving the
carport shed open—the reason that they were missing,
somebody had: gotten them. He thought maybe she may
have loaned them to one of the neighbors. He said there
may have been other tools missing from ‘his toolshed, but
to his knowledge, hé did not know what they were..
At thie time I asked him about the safe burglary at the
Naval Commissary Store at the Little Creek Amphibious
Base at Little Creek, Virginia, that took place on or about
June 2, 1958. He said that the only knowledge he had -of
this was what he read in the local newspapers. He denied
any knowledge of this burglary or known anything about
it. He denied that he purchased any tools for hisself or
for anyone else at any time during the past vear. He also
denied that he furnished any tools to anYone for any
purpose, | es
He also, at this time, said that he wanted to state that
, he had- not allowed anyone to stay at his home or use
any of his property with the knowledge on his part that
. Tfol. 597] they would be used to commit a crime of any
nature; that the only reason he allowed Clayton Grimmer
‘ . home that evening. He denied having any knowledge of
")
s
: Oy | “e
f
to stay at his home during the past few weeks or anytime
or permit him to borrow his car while he was in Norfolk,
Virginia, on about three occasions was because that he
- came to his home oni April 26, 1958, with his‘brother Steve.
Milanovich, who introduced Grimmer as his friend, and he,
also said he-allowed him to stay there because it appeared
to him that Grimmer was,trying to befriend his brother
Steve. : oe
He said that the next time that he saw Grimmer was
about—was June 17, 1958, at which time Grimmer was at
his home with a suitcase and that he did not see the con-
tents of the suitcase. — ei,
Grimmer ‘stayed at his home on the 17th and 18th of
June. Qn the 17th of June he slept in the guest. room,
and on the 18th of June he slept on the davenport in the
living room; that on June 18, 1958; he arrived home about .
8:00 p.m. and no one was home; that he changed his clothes
and went to a Mr. Picot’s ‘residence and stayed about one
hour and then went. to the CPO Club and got back home -
* the same evening about—the next morning about 12:30
a.m., which was June 19, 1958. oe: ne.
He said when he arrived home, Grimmer, Millie Gauger
and his wife were playing pinochle; that he played one
game with them and theri went ‘to bed; that\his wfe, Millie,
[fol. 598] and Grimmer. wére still up when he went to bed, -
‘hut he did not know whether Millie-or Millie Gauger or”
Griammer went out anywhere either before or after he came
Grimmer’s action while he was in the Norfolk area.
I asked him also about a Rego brass or copper welding
kit, which I. found in a coat in his bedroom—a uniform coat.’
He said he had: found this at the O. & R. Department at
‘ the, Naval Air Station when he was’ visting a musician, _
whose name he ‘did not know, at the O. & R. Department.
The re&sgn—this was about the latter part of March, 1958,
and the reason he was visiting the musician was to see him.
about playing at the.Oceana Naval Air Station Chief's
Club. .
He said he never purchased a welding kit or used any
welding apparatus. = mp.
Q. All right, sir, Mr. ence |
85
A. That’s. all. He read this statement at this time. He.
read the notes that I had written down in my. handw ong,
and said he did-not wish to sign it.
have. -
[fol. 727] — » x Gu ERRIERI, called’as a witness ‘by
and on behalf of the Government, — been duly sworn,
testified as follows:
Mr. Parsons: Will the Coart indulge us just a oii
your Honor. —
* Direct examination. ©
' By Mr. Parsons: |
Q. Mr. Guerrieri, I wonder if you would state your. name,
sir. Issthat the proper pronunciation? .
A. Yes, sir, Benjamin Guerrieri, sir.
-Q. I wonder if you would’state your name.
A. My name is Benjamin Guerrieri.
Q. And where is your home, sir?
A. My home is in Youngstown, Ohio.
Se
Q. I believe, sir, you were charged in this particular ac-
tion and have entered a ‘plea of guilty and have been sen- .
tenced to jail; is that correct? . <P 2
A. That’s correct, sir.
Q. I would like to call your attention, sir, to about the —
middle of April, sir, and ask you 3 you came to Norfolk,
Virginia, about that time? —
A. Yes, I did, ’sir.
Q. How did you arrive here, sir?
A. Well, I cgnfe down by automobile.’
(fol. 728] Q.-Do you recall whose automobile it was?
_A. I believé it was Grimmer’s automobile.
(. Where did you stay when you came down during the ;
middle of” April,.sir?
A. At the honie of the Milanoviches’.
-Q. Did any.special events take place while you were. there
on that occasion, if vou recall, sir?
Mr. Parsons: Answer any questions that oblate might —
¢
{
——
cz
. : = . .
- ; °
86 ' 3
. . ‘
9.6 : j
A. Any special event? oe
Q. Yes.”
A. Is that pertaining to the robbery, sir?.
Q. No, sir. Somebody . shave a birthday or a » party, or
something like that? :
A.. Oh, yes, sir. It-was Steve’s birthday. =e
Q. About how long did you stay in Norfolk at that timet /
A. I believe we stood there a little over a week at that
time. .- :
Q. Was ‘om any discussion had about breaking or rob-
bing any places during that time?
Mr. Koutoulakos: Now, your Honor, this is a key witness
and so will the other confessed— ‘ -
Mr. Parsons: I will rephrase it.
Mr. Koutoulakos: I am going to object to any more lead- |
[ fol. 729] ing questions and, I think they should be pgee |
rephrased. —
The Court: Mr. Koutoulakos, I expect-you to object to
any leading questions, but until the question is asked, I
. eannot rule on whether it is leading.
»Mr.-Koutoulakos: I do hot .want the jury to get the im-
pression I am hiding anything.
The Court: You have a right to object to anything. Of
course, I-cannot control what questions ‘come out of any.
counsel’s mouth.
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Mr. Guerrieri, will you sfate ¢ any discussions you may °
have had with Mike or Virginia Milanovich regarding any
activities oe that week yon were there if you recall,
sir? '
A. Well, we had talked about the party, various things i in,
- general and during the—our gathering:at that time the sub-
jvet about the Amphibjous Base. I may have that confused,
It’s the first one or the second one, but it’s the one that Mr.
Milanovich is stationed at. We had talked about—or made
arrangements to breaking into the Post Exchange.
Q. Now, thereafter, did you return to your home, I be-
[fol. 730) lieve, in Youngstown or that area, sir?
A. Yes, I did, sir.
s ‘
Q. When dig you next come to Norfolk?
A. Well, it’
_had made a spécial arrangement to break into the -place
the eve of the first of the month, becayse that’s when pay- ’
: day was supposed to be.. 3
: Q What happened on that occasion, if ‘you snd sir?
‘A. Well, we went back home. We stood home for aw hile,
Q. Yes, sir. I call your attention to May 16th or 17th,
sir, and ask you what occurred on those dates?
‘as delayéd until the first of the month. We,
Mr. Koutoulakos: Your Honor, I am going to object to
any leading questions.
_ The Court: That is not leading. |
Mr. Parsons:' Your Honor, I have been practicing law .
alongtime— ~ °
Mr. Koutoulakos: W ell, he has given a date. He can
ask him when in May..
The Court: He said, “I call ‘your attention td May 16th’
or 17th, and ask you what happened on that date?”
Mr. Koutoulakos : He is calling his attention-to the date’
(fol. 731] he is interested in.° Maybe the witness has no
recollection of that date. ‘
Mr. Parsons: All right, sir.
The Court: Well, he cannot me Mr. Koutoulakos, ae
the daté of birth of this man.
Mr. Koutoulakos: I am not interested in his birth, your
Honor, or his deceased. I am interested only in his own
recollection.
The Court: The objection i is overruled. The: multe is
not leading.
Mr. alii Take an exception. |
By Mr. Parsons:
Q. When did you return to Norfolk and om did you get.
here?
A, Well, the next time we came down, we came down i in *
my car.
Q. Now, was this the second tiine you came back to Nor-
folk? .
A. It was the second time, sir,
Q. Do you recall the approximate date at that time?
Q
. that? .
"for the eve of the first of the month.
~” the equipment that we didn’t have.
j
J
88
A Sir, fam a little hazy about the dates.
Q. All right, sir. What occurred on that Ee
A. Well, we brought some equipment down with us..
What kind o? equipment did ‘you bring, Mr. Guerrierit
- [fol-732] A.’ Some ace tylene tanks, some tools, acetylene’
torch, some tips and various tools that we had used in this
‘particular robbery.
Q. What transpired, then, sir? What happened after
AL Well, we came back to Norfolk. We stopped over the
Milanovithes. We stood over ‘the Milanoviches and we;
stored our. tools. .
Q. What do you mean, “We aiid ovyr the Milanoviches”?
Did you stay there overnight?
_ A. We stayed there. I think we stood there—we stood
there a few days— |
%. All right, sir.
—before the robbery.
Q. Then what’ happened, sir?
A. Well, nothing in particular. We stood there. We put’
the tools,in his shed and we more or less just waited around
| Now, I call. your attention to about the middle of
May, sir, and ask you what your activities around the mid-
ay of May were, sir, do you recall?
. Well, what tools we didn’t have, we madé various
ane of hardware stores and places in(purchasing some of -
[fol. 733] Q. And what, if anything, did you do with this -
equipment, sir? ers
A. Well, after we bought this equipment, we stored it in-
Mr. Milanovich’s shed»
Q. Was he aware of the purchase and joie of these,
tools? - é
Mr. Koutoulakos: Now, your Honor, that is exactly the
point I am making. Those are elements that have to be con-
cluded bythe jury after the facts are brought out. Ido .
not think he ought to lead his witness and I object to it.
The Court: I think the question is a trifle leading. You
can ask him if Mr: Milanovich was there at any time, but
‘not as to what he was aware of as such.
v
‘
& * , .
Mr, Parsons: All right, sir. |
>
' By Mr. Parsons:
Q. Was Mr. Milanovich present at any of the times that
you bought tools, sir? |
A. Oh, yes, sir. -
Q. Was he present at anyjof the’ times the tools were
’ stored in his tool shed? 7
A. Yes,sir- : - :
_ __Q. Now, with reference to’ the Naval Air Station Ex-
(fol. 734] change, how did you get to that Exchange? Do
you recall the date? ces : .
A. Yes, sir. “ce ; : ;
. Q., First, do you recall the date that that occurrence took -
place? ah ob ;
A. No, I don’t recall the date of the rohbery, ‘sir.
Q. How did you get to that Excharige? ee
- A. Well, the night of the robbery, Grimmer, myself, Mr.
Milanovich and Virginia Milanovich— 2
Q. Is Virginia Milanovich and Mike Milanovich in the
courtroom now? . ;
A. Yes, sir. re
Q. How did you get— - * ;
- A. They drove us to this Base.
Q. Had you ever been on that Base before?
' A, Yes, sir, I have one time before with Virginia Milano-
vich and Mike Milanovich. - a
(). What did you do on the’ previous visit to the Base, if
anything? .
A. Well, they pointed out to me the safe that-was in the.
Post Exchange, and by looking at that safe, I would know
what kind of tools we would need. teat
Q. Did Mike and Virginia Milanovich remain in the car
after you arrived on the Air Station? |
A. The night of the robbery, sir?
(fol. 785] “Q. Yes, sir, the night. of the robbery.
A. Yes, sir, the night of the robbery we drove alongside .
of the Post Exchange. Grimmer and I got out and we ar-
ranged, between us, a designated spot where we would meet.
_ Q. What did Mike and Virginia state that they were go- .
ing to do, if anything? | | A ie
‘
-. there.
90
A. They would be parked by the Officer’s Club and pre-
tend as they were lovers. ,
Q. What did you and Grimmer do after that?
A. Well, after they dropped Grimmer and I off, Grimmer
and I proceeded to break into this Commissary Store.
Q. To the Commissary Store or the Post Exchange? .
A. I’m sogry, the Post Exchange, sir. .
Q. Now, about What time did you go from the Milanovich
home to the scene, br about what time do you think it oe-
curred? ;
A. I can’t tell you exactly the exact time, but I would.
say it was roughly around 10 :30 on up, somewhere around:
Q. All right, sir. |
* \" The Post Exchange closes at eleven o’elock, and the
idea of that was, we were Supposed to have been through
by one o’clock because they £ouldn’t park there much longer
after that. aa Ses .
Q. What time did you actually get into the Exchange
[fol. 736} Building, if you recall?
A. Roughly about eleven o’clock, sir.
Q. By what means did you get into the building?
A. We climbed a fire escape onto the roof. There was a
window open, which, I believe, was the boiler room, main-
tenance room.” We went into the maintenance room, down
the hall, into the theatre, down the steps. We came to a
corridor, and right acrogs. from this corridor was a door
that leaded into this Post Exchange. -
Q. After you go into the Post Exchange, sir—how did
you actually get in the Post Exchange from the corridor?
A. Well, sir, the Post Exchange part, there was a'little |
window in the corner by the door, which we removed that
window plate and crawled in‘through it and, as a matter
of fact, the safe \ us right in view there. °
Q. What did you do at the safe, then, Mr. Guerrieri? ~
A. Well, then we proceeded to open the safe, sir.
Q. Now, did you take, sir, anything other than the stuff
you found inthe safe? ~
A. ¥es, sir, we took some luggage and some diamond
rings.
Q. Do you remember approximately how many diamond
- rings were taken, sir? :
A. I'd say roughly anywhere between ten to fourteen
[fol. 737] rings.
Q. All right, sir.
A. Ten to fourteen rings. -
*
+ you keep some of these rings and give them, later, ¢
to :
Peterson?
A. I gave Mr. Peterson one set, sir, |
Q. Who was actually with you at this time when you
»roke into the safe, sir? : ae
A. Just Clayton Grimmer and myself, sir.
Q. About what time did you leave the building, sir? |
A. Well, sir, it took a little longer than we anticipated,
30 I'd say roughly about 1:30. i
Q. And who picked you and Gri p? .
A. Well, Mr. Milanovich and Vi a were still parked
down in back of this Officer’s Club: There were still a few
cars left there. We carried the money down—no, excuse
me, I take that back. We put all the silver in a satchel first,
in a suitease. We couldn’t carry it. It was too heavy. So
we took the other currency in another suitcase and we
‘brought that down first and we hid it under a truck in that
vicinity. Then we weni down to where Virginia and Mike:
were parked and we told them that it was over with. So,
we got into the car with them and we drove in back of the
. . oy
Post Exchange, where we had the money hid, and out of the »
car, opened, the trunk and put the money in the trunk.
(fol. 738] Phen we drove off.
Q. Did you go through one of the gates of the Air Station
to get off the Base?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did you go after you were picked up and went
ne the main gate, out the gate, whichever gate it might have
nf »
A. Well, right’after we went out the main gate, we went
right to the Milanoviches’ home. :
Q. All right, sir. And what happened at the home after
you arrived there, sir? .
A. Well, when we arrived at the home there, we brought
the money into the bedroom. Then we had told them about
hay
_’. ofirst of June or the last part of May, sir, and ask you, did
ra
92
the mgpey we had left back at-the Post Exchange, and Vir-
ginia decided it was a good idea to go back for the money.
Q. Is this the Fost Exchange now or the Commissary?
“A. Yes, sir, same. place. We went back there twice that
night, sir. ; : ares i .
Q. How much money did you get as your share, if any,
from’the Post Exchange robbery? :
A. My share, sir, was roughly between thirty-two hun-
dredl and thirty-four hundred. * © : .
Q. Who else shared in the proceeds of that robbery?
A. Grimmer got the same amount as I have, Virginia got |
the same amount and Mr. Milanovich got the same amount.
\[ fol. 739] Q. Was there anyone else present? — .
A, Yes, we*had some extra change left. aa
Q. What happened to it? . bs
A. Which we gave to Mildred at that time.
Q. All right, -sir- 4
By the Court:
Q. Who is Mildred? © ea
A. Millie.
The Caurt: Millie? -
Mr. Parsons: Millie.
The Witness: Yes.
4%
¢
By the Court: ;
Q. You do not know her last name? 2
A. No, I don’t, sir, :
By Mr. Parsons: .
Q. Who were the. people that planned this robbery, Mr.
jeri, if you know, sir? 7
_A. Virginia Milanovich. ae ° ~g
Q. Mr. Guerrieri, I call your attention to around the
you participate in the theft at the Little Creek Amphibious
Base?
A. I did, sir.
ch
’ 93
_ Q. Had you ever been in this Commissary prior to the
time that this theft ocenrred?
(fol. 740]; A. I have, sir.
Q.. Who took you in there, sir?
A. Mr. Milanovich, sir. : .
-’Q. And what transpired while you were in there at that
time? .
A. Well, at the tine I was at that Commissary, I had
to take a look at that safe. There was a telephone hanging
on the wall. It was by a door, and by talking on that tele-
phone I could see in that room where the safe was, sir.
-Q. What did Mr. Milanovich say about the safe, if any-
. thing? ss >* = ;
A. Well, he said he don’t know exactly what kind of a
safe it was, and it would be a good*idea to take a look at it
first to see what kind of equipment we would need.
Q. On the day or the night that you committed this theft,
how did you get to the Little Creek Amphibious Base?
A. With the same procedure, sir. :
Q. I wonder if you recall approximately what time you
. arrived there? . .
A. Well, I'd say this night, sir, was about twelve o’clock.
Q. Incidentally, sir—I did not ask you—but do you recall
the kind of car that you were driven to the Exchange—into
-the Amphibious Base int
A. Mr. Milanovich’s Oldsmobile, sir.
(fol. 741} Q. Do you recall what year model it was?.
A. I beljeve’it was a ’55 or a ’56~
Q. Now, sir, this particular’ robbery, sir,.who went with
you at this time? ’ ; Re |
A. Well, on this particular robbery, sir, there was three
of us involved. ~
All right, sir.
. Five of us altogether, sir.
Q. AIL right, sir.
A. It was myself, Grimmer, my brother-in-law;
and Mr. Milanovich, sir. — yeas “
Q. After you got on,the Base, what did you do t en, sir? —
A. Well, let me see.: We more or less used fhe same
procedure on that Base as we did on, the last
"irginia
94 P : a e ee
dropped us off on the side of the Commissary and they were
supposed to go down and park at ‘the Officer’s Quarters.
There were cars parked there where the officers had gt
and they were supposed to go into Ges same routine as
had previous.
Q. Did you actually get into the C ommissary Store that
night, sir?
A. Yes, sir. ;
Q. Llow djdJou get into the Commissary. Store?
A. Well,/sir, we made ‘our way to the roof and we re-
moved the \window, a small window frame, out of one of
| fol. 742] them big French windows and we went through
.
hat window. -
Q. How did/vou get into the building from that window,
sir, if you t
A. We dro down from the window into the Commis-
sary Store, sir. :
Q. Did you have any tools with you at that time?
A. Yes, sir. .
Q. And what action did you take ‘after you got into the
Commissary Store, if you recall?
- A. Well, sir, there was two safes in there. One safe |
didn’t see*when I looked in there the first time. It was in-
the other room. And at first we attempted to burn open the
big round door safe. The torch stopped working. So, there-
fere, we started on the other safe, WAjch you didn’t need ©
no acetylene torch. So we opened tha e and removed
the contents that was in that safe, sir.
g Approximately what time’ did you through with ©
that particular job, sir? :
A. Well, sir, I couldn’t tell you exactly what time, but
this much I do know, it was morning, getting close te
morning, because Mike had came to the telephone booth that
was on the side of the Commissary Store and had rapped
and says to hurry up because it was almost daylight.
Q. Nov% did you havea prearranged meeting place ‘in
case they were not present when you came out, sir?
(fol. 743] A. Yes, sir.
.Q. What happened when you came out?
A. Well, sir, first we took the money out. That was the
silver and the currency, and we brought it to this designated
95
place where the Milanoviches were. supposed to pick us up.
However, the Mijanoviches didn’t come, so we buried the
money in the woods close by. We were going: back to the
Post Exchange for the tools when we seen the jeep parked
in-front of it. We seen—
Q. Going back to the Post Exchange or the ———
A. The Commissary Store, sit, I'm sorry. Wh
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