Transcript of Record — Coryell v. Phipps

Supreme Court brief1943

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Vol. Vv

TRANSCRIPT OF RECORD

| Supreme Court of the United States :

_ OCTOBER TERM, 1942

: No. 246

“

CHARLES CORYELL, ET AL, PETITIONERS, >.

oe : |

JOHN S. PHIPPS AND GEORGE J. PILKINGTON ©

' ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE Gihiuv STATES CIRCUIT COURT”

OF, APPEALS FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT

PETITION FOR CERTIORARI FILED JULY 20, 1942.

_ CERTIORARI GRANTED OCTOBER 12, 1942.

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: TRANSCRIPT OF RECORD

UNITED STATES

CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS —

FIFTH CIRCUIT.

nd a /

Nos 10185

CHARLES CORYELL, ET AL.,

pais \O ie Appellants,

\ versus

X .

- JOHN S. PHIPPS and GEORGE J. PILKINGTON,.~

~ . * Appellees.

. a i

‘Appeal from the District Court. of the United States for -

_ the Reuthern District: of Florida.

. ° we -

Seas Ns a oe Oe A |

| {ORIGINAL RECORD RECEIVED DEC. 17/41.)

, A

‘2209 -

DS se sic:

-. this witness cherly i not show him to be a hostile

2: witness. :

The Court: .

I ‘will: hear from both) of you on that when the time

| comes.

| (By Mr. Daderwesit \

If the Court satin I suggest that the facts elicited by

..Q: Mr. Bernard, what portion of yout work -is on be-.

half of marine underwriters? I mean by that, Mr. -Ber- —

nard, what is the proportion between the amount of ‘work

you do for underwriters on the one hand and for owners —

on the other? it :

‘ A. I judge 75% for linderwriters and 25% for classifi-

ation and owners. ea

Q. Can yoii break that 25% down _and tell me - how

* | much of that is for ewners and how much of that is for :

ification societies? \

A: Probably 10% for owners ‘and 15% for classifica-

_ tion...

Q. What: Rroportion .of your livelihood comes. ‘from.

the fees you get from the work ‘you have tald us about?

A. About 80%. .

; Q. Now. you have refereed to or tistics a -conyer-

‘+ sation with Mr. Hawkins. following the fire on the Semi-

ndle, is that right? -

— AL; Yes, .sir. “

’ |Q. What did you know at that.time as to the insurance

. Om the boats that had been burned?

A. Is that as to amount, sir? —

- ‘QI will rephrase my question - ‘so there can be no |

5 misunderstanding: did you or did you not know tha ome

-Of those boats were insured “by Marine underwriters?

WA: T knew Sra there were some. »

2210.

.Q. Did you have any information at to ow many?

A. No, not at that time.

QQ. Do you know?

* Mr. Botts: eS a; 20

I object tocthat. It is immaterial what“he knows now. —

Rs Not the exact number of boats, no. :

Mr. Botts: ag va

I move to strike the answer.

The Court: --

Captain Bernard, you answered that before the Court

ruled on the objection, I will ask you to.do that, I.

will overrule -the objection and deny the motion to strike. .

iHeit eee << —— .

~/ What was your reason for refusing to accept em-

ployment by Mr. Hawkins when he spoke to 7 after —

the fire on the Seminole? .

Mr, Botts:

I abgact to that .as being i ieeaiaieriel.

The Court:

Overruled.

A. I was coining of the Board of Underwriters.

"ot that time ani also agent for rene, apes Salvage

_ end other independent interests. :

— Q. Will -you tell me whether or not you seniinia that

there was a:conflict-cf interest between the underwriters :

you represented and the parties Mr. Hawkins represented? °

A. : -T think ‘that. was too. carly after. the, fire to sense .

. anything an. that. :

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"ou inspect her when she was afloat as well at

her: ‘condition Pastels, wee = not?

"Mr. Matteson: Biggs ae

I object Yo that as leading, your Honor.

T will sustain the objection

Q What jvas.the purpébe of your visit and survey. of

the Seminole? ~

A. °To make. an examination of thePnull on " drydock:;

she was on drydock when I ‘first made an examination

of her hull conditions and with the thought of sending -

the vessel out to make a.short cruise as to her fitness.

Q.° Her fitness in what respect? © |

A! Well, that just means that?

> Q.. In what respect were you interested in her fitness? -

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- 2212

ae poe you: telling me, Captain, that ‘your only inter-

est was in the tightness of the hull? .

A. Well, that would refer to the yeneral condition; I

will say the “general condition” but primarily this first . “

visit was to make an examination of the hull on dry-

dock, outside and inside. |

' Q. How many visits did — ‘make? -

A. ‘Two. |

Q. What was the purpose of ‘the next visit?

_-A. I made a verbal report and they asked for an out-

line to make. application for ‘insurance, and I went back

and took another observation and examination. .

' @Q.. What was the purpose of the'second examination?

- A. It was to apply for insurance for a short trip around

the Keys, I believe, and into the Gulf—

~Q. Do you remember what work you thought it was

“necessary to do before you could pass her?

A. Outside. of fire’ extinguishers I haven’t memory of

anything that T asked for; I asked for reconditioning of

fire. extinguishers; other than that I sos al any memory

of making any recommendations.

Q. There’ has been some testimony jn this case, Mr.

Bernard, about. some " repairs~putting} a cement. patch

around the stern. .Do you remember anything about

A.- Never heard of it. = i : | :

Q. .Do you deny’ that you recomapended that?

A. No, sir.” f

Q. Do you deny: that you recommended that? : :

__A.—Wher-you say “stern” will you name the place.

ee you, mean’ the sternmost compartment? No, I didn’t

_ have anything to do with that, and T made no such recom-

_mendation.

Q. Did you make any. recommendation sat da patching

_ any plate? . |

_ .A.” No, sir; I-madé no recommendation about patchi ng

‘any y plating.

9213

Q... What. ‘your testimony bé that the only thing. that

ee ret eee

you recommended be done | was -to refill the fire extin- -

* guishers? _ iat

‘ ee sir. ,

Q. Did you confine. your examination to the outside

of the boat? . | :

A. I made a close internal examination. ot the hull and

- the parts.

_Q. Did you: go. through’ the bilges? .

A. .I did.

‘Q. ‘What condition did ‘you: ‘find the bilges in?

-+-A,-I-found them clean and free from gas and ‘any

element that might indicate there was any weakness or

"gases that might be detrimental in the use of the boat.

Q. Do you know whether there were. backfire deflec-

“tors or ‘arrestors on the carburetors on the main engines?

‘A. I can’t certify that; I can’t memorize that; I be- —.

lieve there were, though I am not sure.:

Q. I show you a paper which has been marked Re-

spendents’ Exhibit DD, and call your attention to- the

_ first paragraph on the top of the second page:. Does that |

refresh your recollection as to the—

Q. What is the. fact; were “there backfire deflectors

there? ete :

A. ‘There were. |

'Q. You may keep that ‘afore you, if, you like.

“A. All right.

~Q Do you remember’ where “die air tanks used for -

Starting the motors wére located?

A. I don’t at this time.. ;

Q. Will you. look at the first paragraph on _— second

' page .of that exhibit and see if that refreshes your recol-

lection? :

A. Yes: it has outlined here the location of them. *

Q. .Is-it a fact that they were located as I have sug-.

gested? . ;

, A. Yes, sit. - eV

pis ea! 2214

Q. ‘Did you observe what sort of a generator she

had? : ; ;

Ap Yes; she had two generators.

Q. What ‘were they?

_ A. One was a six cylinder. Winton and the other was

- a’small engine, a four-cylinder Universal, I believe.

Where were they located? |

On the port side of the engineroom.

In what kind of.a space?

In an open space. fr

Roomy space?

Yes; on shelving above the engineroom floor:

That’is the Universal you are talking about?

I-believe they were both on the one side; if my

memory “serves me right. they were both on ‘the’ one side.

Q. Are you suggesting | that the se-eyanee Winton

. engine was on a shelf? -

>POPOPO>o:

A. On a‘base. | ase Ce

Q. Base and not a-shelf?

A. Base.

Q. Did you observe how. the carburetors received their .

‘supply of gasoline? .

i :

Q. Did ‘you mere aren sort of bilge’ ‘pumps she

r had? 2

ae She had motor-driven bilge pump~3 am not certain.

whether there was one attached to the engine or net, but :

she had one ind enti motor-driven pump, rotary.

Q.! ‘Did you rve anything about her water pumps?

A.’ She had. some’ general service pumps; .there was. a

fresh water pump -but-I am not sure about the salt water

pump, but I believe there were two- units there..”

‘Q. In what condition did you find these things we.

have discussed so far? ¢

_A. From my observation of. the: engineroom on that

boat that day,. without any engineer there, I judged them

to be in —

Q. ‘Ish’t it a fact that you ‘aici that they | were .

found in good “operating condition?

That might have been’ my wording.

Isn’t that your wording?

Yes.

Did you observe her electric batteries?

C | Siam :

What kind did she have?

I am not sure but I will say Edison

. Do you remember ‘how many trays?

No, I don’t, sir, but } believe that is in the report.

.~Can you refresh your recollection by eaeens to

. the middle of page 2?

A. 20 trays of 5 cells each.

~Q. That would be 100 cells?

_ 2215

erprererert

_A. Yes, sir. r

Q. Did’ you examine them to determine their coridi-

tion? .

A: They were apparently in” good condition.

Q. Did you examine her gasoline spaces and gascline ..

tanks? wee

A. I don’t believe you can get into the gasoline apeee

to make much of an observation.

Q. Did: fou attempt, to do it?

A. I did on the “entire side” because I. tried” to. get :

in there and have a look.

Q.. Were: ycu looking at the tanks as far as you could? :

‘ A. I looked for any leaks that might exist in them.

Q.. Did you find any?

A. , No, ‘sir.

Q.” Do you remember how many. tanks she had?

. je ee

. Q. How many?

_ A: Four. |

Q. What shape? | . |

UA. Cylindrical tanks, , standing « on: ends.

2216

Q. : They were located in a separate space forward of.

. the. engineroom space; | ‘is that right?

Yes.

What was the nature of their scomteaitinen’ ;

Cylindrical tanks with riveted seams, steel.-

Were they all heavily constructed?

They: were for that service.

Were they well bedded?

I couldn't. certify to that, because I conde. get

Ad ideabsl”

to “it”.

Q. Were they well bedded and screwed to place?

A. From what I could observe they were and I believe

I wrote them up that way,

Q. In fact, you reported to that effect, did you not? .

A. Yes, sir. ‘

Q. Did° you. observe how those tanks were ‘filled?

A. Yes.

‘Q. How were ros filled? ‘ i

A. They were ‘filled from the top by a two-inch filler

. Did you ascertain. whether these filling lines were

tight?

a 4 presumed them to be tight from their connections;

they: were all solid connections.

‘Q. Did you report that the banks filled through tight

deck fittings?

A. T did.

Q. Did you observe that they were vented oubineat

A. I did. ;

Q. Did you observe, what shut-off valves there were

in the feed lines from wad tanks to the carouretors?

A. I did.

Q. She was’ ‘Mabieses with shut-off valvés? a

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In what condition did you find the ike and: the

pioing to be? | .

=A).

2217

A. There were no ‘enka.

Q. Isn't it a fact that you-reported the tanks and piping

vented pipe and in order? :

A. Yes, sir. .

Q. Did ycu observe whether or not there. was a a glass

gauge fitted to show tank aia

A eS ss

“ Q. Was there one?

A. Yes.

- -Q. You saw that?”

Did you see the sinitins gasoline tank for the ;

windlass engine?

- . ws

Q. Do you remember the shape of that? ”

_ + A. I don’t remember the shape of it but I think. it

was a cylindrical tank. -

Q. Do you know where it was located?

_ A. Forward, adjacent to the -engine msanninery,. by a

.. window.

-Q. What was it made of?

A> I can’t remember. . ;

Q. You may look at. your report and refresh your»

recollection—the fourth. paragraph from the bottom of the

% second page.

It is galvanized iron, capacity ab@Gt 10 "eallone.

Q.\Did you examine that tank and fittings?

Q. Did you examine the main switchboard of the aoe :

nole? . .

A.. Yes, sir.

Q. The geste and light fixtures?

—

2218

hes noted the electrical wiring and part of the lights.

Q. Did you find them in good-order? ©

&. Yes, they were ‘in: order. acca

@. . You knew they were knife switches of the open

pe : :

‘Q. And ‘the switchboard was in the: engineroom?

A. Yo. .

Q. .Did you report ‘that all of the’ United States gov-

"ernment requirements had been wad copnpliod with?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you report that from your examinations. the |

general condition of hull, auxiliary machinery, deck and *

deckhouse equipment was found to be good, =e

the age of the vessel? —

A. I did

Q. And you passed the vessel?

A. That report I believe was accepted by the Under-

writers, and I understood ‘she had some’ coverage on her

for a short.trip. What I certified by that remark there

is nothing but an opinion, and I. don’t know whether i

is worth «anything or not. }

Q. You knew that your report was going ‘to be con- —

sidered in the fixing of insurance on that vessel, did you

not?

-A. Yes, sir.”

' Q. -And you had been ntti such reports for many

years?

A. Yes.

Q. ‘ You were engaged in the same widiinees before you

came to Miami?

‘A. Yes, I. was, and oe the best firm in “the United

States. } :

Q. What firm is that?

-A. Franklin A. Martin, 25 Broadway.

2219

Q. How long have you engaged in. this business alto-

gether?

A. From the beginning of my career?

Q. Yes; from the Re

A. From the time Y was I4 yeats old I have. been con- -

nected with mechanical work and marine work, ard I~

have held a Chief Engineer’ s license since 1900.

Q. How long have = been. a surveyor?

A. Surveyor?

Ee... WR Foie. <

A, Directly surveying and general. surveying—directly

_ active 22 years.

Q. You had been familiar during all of that time with

the rules: National Fire Prevention Association, have you.

‘nee

= ‘Yes; I might be caught on. some’ details of them,

but I know their outline and their various formulaes

and use them ‘and am guided by ‘them.

Q. I suppose-you know now and knew in 1935 of the .

Tules of the Bureau: for the Prevention of — and

. Fire on: Motor Vessels? ches

A: Yes, sir :

> ‘And you know’ about Lioyd’s rules?- ,

aX. I would have to check up on some of them; ‘it:

is too hard to remember them all. a

_ Q. I didn’t mean to suggest that you had siaciairni :

them. You are P generally femnilier wm them?

. A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you’ know. the rules, of those three epiniaa-

tions? ‘

Yes.

You examined the cme nae in , 1935. _in March?

Yes. 2 — aS ee gE I ay See e-0 emu ta-g

ror er|

_For- insurance pirposes, “ena you Dedete her?

Yes, sir. ; eek

ae Mr. Matteson:

2220°

- Cross Examination. ,

rae

_Q.. Mr. Bernard; you have been ialiie to as Lloyd's.

agent.

” Yes, sir.

Or sub-agent?

Umh, hmh. .

Will you tell us anaes what that amounts to?

Well, it is a person placed in a locality to attend

to an emergency in the eyent of a vessel covered by

a2) Avie

Lloyd’s, being in trouble, or, any other vessel; or to serve . :

a Master or ari owner, in aiding or directing: -them in the

time of marine-trouble; also to report marine. trouble and

to keep*in touch with the London office with regards to

what might be going on; it might be.d disaster; it might . _

be some vessel that has come in here. I-have had three

vessels lately, one went. to $32,000.00; one went up last

week to $19,000.00. ‘They like to know where that ves-

sel is going, how it occurred, and when it occurred. That

is .given , ,to them by cable throne my office in this

district.

~Q: Do you receive any salary? .

_ A. ‘No, sir, there is no compensation. 7

Q. From time to time, when such disasters occur, you

'. are employed by them in that connection?

A. I get a fee of &%me sort; it. may be the underwriters .

will pay that fee, or it may be that they arrange with the

owner to pay it, and they in turn collect from the under-

'. writers. ° te

Q. This Lloyd's organization that. you speak of has

representatives like you in-‘many ports, does it?

A. Yes, sir, all ports are supposed to be coveted by

some _agency | or sub-agericy.

Q. ~ And” yo you receive your ‘compeniation. aais when

you are employed in connection with some particular dis-

; aster?

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: A. Yes, sir, “ora loss. em there is a foreign boat —

; comes in with a loss, ° coming over, due to heavy weather,

and I am engaged to take. care of that loss and present

it to the underwriters, I get a fee from that. That is

how I get my compensation.

Q. But your compensation | is in individual fees, in in-

' dividual cases? :

A. Yes, sir. Individual fees in individual cases.

Q. And this service that you perform in reporting

accidents or losses or disasters, is part of. the service that

you render, so that you will receive erat in con-

nection. with those cases, is that true? -

' A. Well, I will get a fee for services for any small. :

job. that I might wish to submit, but I don't do it; that

is in line; I can enter a fee but I ‘don't do it, unless it

is a major case. - .

Q.’ Does the position’ of Lloyd’s sub-agent require any

- technical experience, or is it sometimes performed by peo-

ple without such experierice? 7

A. I think that is developed from: knowing’ the char-

acter of the person that might be taking the position.

Q. The.term, Lloyd's sub-agent, does not necessarily

’ .mean that a person is a “surveyor, —

‘A. No, sir.

Q. You speak of being the saeiaanibitieds of the Board

cf Underwriters of New York,—or rather, correspondent.

Is your’ relationship with that. organization somewhat

similar .to’ what you have described with respect ‘to

Lloyd’s? | :

A. - Yes, sir.

Q. What is the American Bureau of Shipping?

A. Classification of American Vessels. —

Q. Is- that the official classification society in this

country? :

A. ‘It is. c

Q. And you are one of their list of surveyors?

2222 |

A. Yes, sir. : is

Q. What is the U.S. Salvage Association?

A. That is a Board of Survey, represehting I would

say, a number of underwriters,—I don’t know how many.

Q. It is an incorporated organization is. it not?

A. I cannct say so; I don’t .know ‘that technicality.

Q: It is an organization? \

A. -Yes, sir. : |

Q. And is cer ee by underwriters rom time to time

in connection with disasters? |

‘A. .I think it is established and. maintained. by ‘under-

writers; I don’t believe. it is employed. — I think that is

‘Maintained, as° I understand ‘it. \ '

Q. Renders services to underwriters and receives, com-

pensation for this service? = —— . \ 3

A. Yes: .

Q. Is there a difference between Lloyd’s as an insur-

ance organization, and Lloyd's asa classification society?

A. I couldn't tell. I believe that would oe

by the policies issued by either one.

Q. Well, don’t -you know as a matter of f that

. ,Lloyd'’s’ ‘classification society is an independent organiza-

tion similar to the American ae ‘of shipping in. this

country? : | “\

A. Yes, sir. i

Q. That is correct, is it not? :

A.. Yes, sir; I beg your pardon sir, you were. hie

to insurance, were you \not—American insurance, when

you first asked that question?

‘Q. I don’t know; if-there is anything that is is not clear:

to you, we will try to straighten it out; but I don’t under-

stand what: isn’t clear. Is ‘there some” explanation you

want to give? - :

A. I think F have’ made a long answer. I interpret

you to say, er to try to ask me, the value, in words,

_ the value of ‘Lloyd’s insurance as compared to an ‘Ameri-

ean company’s insurance. ,

mee Ne oe wy Se ee ee

Q. ‘Oh, no, we are ‘not Dinpeitione said: of that

kind. You were employed by Mr. Hawkins to make this

‘examination of the Seminole? .

A. I believe the’ message. came pen his office. ‘Yes,

sir] Mr. Hawkins’ office. I. didn’t get it direct, I was

out ut the time, and I got: it when I arrived. But it

* came fre Mr. Hawkins’ office; listed that way in my -

office.

Q. What were your instructions with respect to ade

examination?

A. To make an inspection of the Melina: She was

-, Oo dry-dock_ and- they wanted -to have an eeacmueal ——

made: = } ‘\ 7

Q. For-what purpose? 2 : fae %

A. At that particular time, it was to ‘report on the

general condition of full, if she was all right and ready

to be on. dock, if there was any ‘more work to be done .

on’ dock: —

Q. So the first instruction you had was solely with re-.

spect-to an examination of the hull? |

A. Yes, sir. :

‘3s And you made that on the 26th of March, 1935,

is that correct?

A. Yea, sir. * etna ae

“3 - ~

A. Yes. See

Q:- An d that had nothing to do with any insurance?

A. No; sir. J

. QQ And did you understand at that time that you were

acting for the owner of the vessel, or someoné else? :

: A. It was an owner's call, sir.

XY - Q. Now do I understand that you received some further ie

- \. | instructions after you’ had Pexccnacns that examination?

, A. Yes, sir.

2 From whom did you, get the instructions that time?

Nw, Mr. Hawkins.

2224

Q. Did you. talk with him personally?

A. Yes, sir. *

Q. And what instruction did you get with respect to

_ that survey,—with respect to that examination? .

A. He informed me that he wished to have the ves-

sel cov ube ‘to make a short trip down to the Keys, and

he would like to have a report on her cohdition. © .

Q.: Well, is.that in substance what he said to you?’

A. Yes, sir, about that, as near as I can remember. _

Q. In making this examination that you made, after

the first one, what did you have in mind? . ©

A. Well, the vessel was afloat, and I warited. to- see

the interior of the hull, afloat. She was dry when I

saw her. I wanted to see what. the hull ‘was like. inside

the boat. She has quite a pretty. big bilge, you know,

_a@ good big bilge space; I wanted to get in there, there

was a good chance; I said to If “I am going in age.

and have a look around”. Lots of times when . vessels

go on a dock why they usually check it up; they certify

her when she comes off.

Q. So- that is all that you had in mind when you

went on board the second time?.

A. Yes, I wanted to check up the machinery a little,

and go .around ,the decks arid the fire extinguishers, I

wanted to .check (hem up. .

Q. Did you understand at that time that you were ¢ ex-

pected to make a ‘thorough examination of all .the ma-

chinery and appurtenances?

A. I couldn’t make a thorough, examination on that

type vessel, sir. I would have to open up machinery

and open up spaces, and I could mgke. a general exam-

ination, which would represent what I was doing; but I

wouldn’t make a thorough examination, no; it wouldn't .

be represented that way.

Q. Now you weit on board the Seminole for tha

purpose, did you?

. 2225

A. what I am answering now, éir

re See ne eee eat ~

&. I entered the shaiibiein, yes, sir, for a » short ‘in-

terval. . ’: .

Q Were you alone.'in the engineroom, ‘or was there

anyone with you? —s.

> A. T was—I was alone. -

Was there any: engineer on board the ——

No, sir.

Was there any’ Captain oh board the vessel?

=. 2

- Was thére anybody on board the ‘Wessel? 3

Yes, sir; there was a young man that I saw work-

B perere>

rn Soschgreety ene ye Tig PAL:

Q. ‘Was he the only one that was there? :

A. Well, I couldn't vouch for that, I didn’t ask him;

there may have been others that I didn’t happen to see

Q. He is ‘the only one that yqu saw?

_ A. He is the only one that.I saw,

- Q > Mr: Bernard, did. you observe when you were in .

. the engineroom, a drain valve connected with the gasoline

piping system from which —— could be drawn in the

' engineroom? . se |

A. I did not., ais

_ -Q. Ifyou had observed such an ‘arrangement’ in the

‘ engineroom, would you have passed ‘the vessel? |

Mr. Underwood: AE gs Oa i RS |

Wait'a minute, I Object to that, your, Honor; it is specu-

‘lative. ; Ake

' (Arguments ‘by counsel.)

NO a

t know ’

perhaps that is not very clear... Anyway, you —

Q. And did you go’ into - the engineroom on that occa-

sion? °

‘doing odd jobs on the vessel; the same man ‘was .

a enee 2226

Mr. Botts: Lge

“If the Court please, I. sano like’ ‘to make. this ieee: .

Bee ces " vation; that: if proving an examination for thé purpose

os of some. insurance, isn’t calling for an expert opinion and

: - expert examination, I den'’t know what its purpose was;

and 1 think clearly he has — that phase of it

_-and purported to rely on it.

wre ; The Court: oe ae

- No, I don’t think so: I think the witness has not been .

introduced as an expert. He has been introduced,—he

may be an expert, but he has’ been. introduced io. testify

as to his.employment, and what -he did. and the ‘report

“he fnade. This question I think calls for an expert opinion -

to be made at this time, so unless the Libelants care to

Mee make him a witness, why I shall sustain the objec-

tion.

s ,: (Argument by counsel.)

Mr. Matteson: .

As I- understand the question is cbiected ‘to ana ‘the

objection: is sustained, is that the ounces

The Court:

¥es, sir.

Q. How do you account. for the fact that you did not —

_ observe that draw-off line in the a copes Mr. Ber- .

nard? .« *

-- A. ‘It.ts out of the. ordinary lead from the main line;

_ it. went along from the port side—

Q. Well—

Mr. Underwood: :

Let him finish, please; how did it - go?

A. It is off the ordinary lead from such a2 line; it

was a long lead, from the main line, run along the star-

_ board side of the vessel, from the manifold of all four’

tanks. .It was made into this main line. And this, as .

I saw it after the fire, led close athwartship over to the

‘ port side of the vessel, and probably led underneath

«some conditions such’ as batteries: or something else, and .

_-was not observed. We lodked for .draw-off lines or draw-

off connections in close proximity to the main line.. The

main line and the ‘feed ‘line to motors. Another point

‘was that that- would probably be in the shadow; the

ship was dead, and they hadn’t anything in the way. of

lights in that engineroom, and 1 didn't go searching for.

something: out of the ordinary, in the draw-off line.

Q. Hew rae were you in the Bt st Mr. Ber-

nard?

A. Well, at that time .I -was in there sechahty- about

twenty minutes.’ But’: 1 had been previously. in there,

with regards to the motors, particularly the motors and

_ the general | lineup’ of a little generator and the bilge

_ pumps; the bilge pump connections mostly;, went in there

to get. all leads to see if they led to the different places.

Q. You were in the engineroom- ee

A. Yes, sir. :

Q. And ‘the first time you were ‘interested only in

bilge. pumps, ery .

A. - No, I said, a combination,—the general céndition of

the engines and pipe lines, but not going into any detail. _

_ Primarily it Was to see about the bilge pump ‘and bilge—~

* pump conditions; that was when I was considering the —

- huil.. ;

Q. That was. the bilge pump and the bilge pump con-

nections and whatever machinery was connected with

the bilge pumps, is that it?

2228 Fe art

A. Yes, sir; the motor to drive the bilge. pumps; they

wouldn't be any good if the motor wasn't fit to move —

them, —the generator.

Q. - Let’s see if I itannand® you correctly. The first

time you went into the enginercom, you were—the only

thing you examined was ‘the bilge“ pumps and the bilge

connections ,—and the =e connected with the _

_. pumps? ~

is And the ¢witchboard and connections that drove

that motor, and the general conditions; and that involved |

a lot in that engineroom, to move. that bilge pump; théy

-have a lot of moving’ parts and connections.

Q, Did you move the bilge pump?

_-A.- Oh no, I’ wouldn't start fen daneed ona dead | ship, |

not er 6. ; v

Q. Why not? :

A. Why it isn’t my place, not my ‘emi. I wouid .

ask for or order it done, and go back and find out how |

it was opérating after the official operator ‘was on it.

.Q. Was there anycne there that you could order to

_ operate the machinery? )

A. Not that I know of, that had—I wouldn't want’ to- :

_ ask, only from the. firm themselves,—to send their man

there and start the motor.

Q. And did they send any-man cver to operate it?

_ A. I didn’t ask for that and didn’t require it. I con- .

vinced myself. it was all right.” aad

Q.-: And you are referring now to the pump?

/A, I am: referring. to the pump and the parts tha

weré’ required to operate the pump, which are many.

It has te go through the switchboard, the generator has

to be started, and there is’a manifold of valves has to.

be opérated; sea-suction to be opened up. ~ ,

Q. Now tell us. just exactly what-you did to ascer-

/ tain the operating condition of the bilge pump? _ :

. . 2 >

“ ‘

: ‘ . .

. e :

=. . Son a oan phssinw - ee —— ee ween en mene

=! P

. % . * .

2229

-A. I went down to Pave a look at the motor, the’

generator. The generator apparently was in good con--

dition. There was nothing wrong I could tell, from the

ordinary standpoint ‘of many, many vessels I have ex-

amined standing still. There is one way of examining —

it, but. from what I could ascertain, that the gencrator,

' switchboard, and the connections, and the batteries néces-

sary to maintain those, together with the~ptmp itself,

‘and its connections, were in order. I tried the valves.

and manifold. : it

Q. Did you try anything else?

A. No, just tried the valves and manifold;: — the |

valves and: the bilge manifold:

~Q. You tried the valves?

A. Yes, sir.

And is that all that you. tried?

That’s all.

What else did you try?

I didn’t try anything | else.

Did you operate the generator?

‘No, sir.

. Did you operate any of the machinery?

POReT Are ®

proached. as a ‘surveyor or an owner ’s sheececugeaemcommided or

as a superintending engineer:

Q. I understand. you to say that if there is an engi-

neer present, you order them to do that?

A. If he offered to do so; if I said to him, “Iam going -

to ask to have these turned over”, if he said he would

turn them over, they do it all right. I didn’t ask him

to do that.. -

Q. There was no one there at this time that you could

ask to-do that? :

A. No, sir. 1 believe that was pretty early in. the

-morning I went over there, very early that morning, I

remember.

No, sir; never have on any vessel that I ever ap-.

2230

-Q. Well, you can’t really determine the operating con-

dition of a piece of pases without operating it, can

. you? ,

A. ell, I think | ae

Q. erely, by observation?

_ A. Ithink the underwriters understand that. We don’t

' try out every. part. . Bs

Mr. Matteson:

I move to strike that out as not responsive.

prs Court: .

_* * * T grant the motion.

Q. Just confine yourself to answering my ——

'. _please.

: A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you operate any. of the italien on theeswitch- _

. board? : ' ;

‘A.” No, sir. %

. Q. Did you make any test of the gasoline tanks?

A. What kind of test, please? Hydraulic?

Q. I want-to know what you did.:

A. I made a search for odor or leak of gasoline; for

the odor.or leak ' of gasoline from ‘the gas tanks.

Q And that ‘is. -- you: did? Rass

hh Che ve :

Q. Did ‘you put your head. in ‘under the oo com-

partment?

A. - Well, I don’t say I put. my head in, or what I did;

1 can't ° remember what I did.

' Did you go into that compartment? —

I couidn’t go in there., |

‘Why not? ath aad

It was between bulkheads; between bulkheads.

Could you'see part of the tanks?

OP Pe,

A. Might get a slight observation of the side of one-or

two; nothing—

Q. You couldn’t make any general examinaticn?

A. |No, you ‘could not; no..

- Q. Was there any gasoline in the ae at the time, do

you know?

A. I didn’t observe that, ‘sir. .

Q. ‘Then do I understand that your observations in

the engineroom were confined merely to visual observa- .

tions?

A. Yes, sir. .

Q. Where was the hia when this examination was .

made? See $ R

A. Coconut Grove; down at Coconut Grove, Florida.

Q. And where was she lying there, afloat?

A. She laid the first time on the marine ways there.

Q. And the second time?

A., At a pier adjacent there, one of thi piers, I can’t

remember which one. ;

Q. A pier that projects out in - the bay?. ,

‘A. Icouldn’t say that, I don’t remember-that. As near

as I remember, the second time she was in that yard.

Q. Did you have any light in the engineroom when

you were there? »

A. No, sir. :

Q. The current was all off the switchboard, was it? -

~ A. I couldn’t say, sir, I don’t know.. °

Q. You-don’t know whether any of the switches were ~

connected-on, the switchboard at that ‘time? ~

_A._ The switches may have been in there, but the cur-

|. Tent must have been cut out at the batteries. I didn’t

move the battery. switch. .There As a cutout on that

_ battery.

Q. You can’t tell us whether any of the switches.on

the switchboard were connected at: that time?

- A. There was no juice on the main switchboard, I

know. that. There may have been switches in on the

board;. but no juice from any main, through the board.

ars wz re ale

- 2332

. Q.. How ‘ie you heen hens: was no ie on the,

switchboard? .

A. I didn’t see any lights burning anywhere. .

Q. Is that what ™ judged by?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you examine the switches on the switchboard? .

A. Not. cleseiy. It was a good — asa ecceries

,° that’s. all I memorized..

Q. That's all you noticed; it was a a -gend looking wiclals-

board?»

' A. Yes, and has an elevation from ‘the floor, and that

was essential. |

Q. What was the initeliaes: of the windows in the

enginercom when you were in there the second time,

afloat?

. ‘The condition of them?

Yes, were they open or. closed? ;

I- don’t remember. :

Do you remember the location of those windows?

¥es, sir. I. do.

What windows were. there? |

There was a window through the top side on: he

: port. side, through the side of the hull, top side of the

hull on the port side; that is a rectangular window. There

was a similar window in a fore and aft bulkhead in the

alleyway on the starboard side.

' Q. Was that a steel bulkhead between the engineroom

and the alleyway?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What means of ventilation did’ you ‘notice in ‘the

engineroom, besides the windows? - .

A.- From = raised trunk they had two fourteen inch

‘ventilators. They also had a ventilation through a hatch

| s

ePPP Pr OP

' that entered the engineroom. That’s about all that Ican -

‘remember, I believe: There may have been another coam-. -

y a ‘

_ were these two cowl ventilators?

° .

: . e

ie. fat

———— & & =

ing or a hatchway, I am not sure, but I believe there

_was, three sources from that raised trunk over r the engine-

room. Byrsetcs Py

“Q. That is these cowls— rae Sib

- A. There might have been windows in through the

raised trunk, I can’t remember; but there was a raised

trunk over the engineroom on the boat deck. - is

Q. Arid extending ‘upwards from that _— trunk,

A. Yes, two cowl ventilators. |

-Q. pind Sle tabi; della eh. te tan .nelend: weak’

-A. It extended.above the raised trunk, it was what

we call a coaming, a raised coaming.

> Q Is that all that you saw in the way of ventilation

at that time? es

A. All that I can soaumhae

Q. Did you observe any sort of ventilating device that

‘led into the bilges? — |

. There was none. _-

. Are you sure of that?

Not that I observed.

I don’t: believe I did; I don’t think I did.

These ventilators that extended up from the deck, :

you observe those on deck?

A. ,I can’t remeniber that, whether I et si there to_

—

. . ‘Q. Did-you look for them?

- A,

look at those cowls or not. : é.

Q: How did you get into the dssihdonat

A. I went down through a-hatch from the upper deck.

Q. And that’s this hatch that you have just spoken

of in the trunk over the engineroom?

>. ee

'Q. What do- you mean by trunk?

_ A. It is a raised structure over the level of. the ordi-

nary decks; steel structure; it happens to be a coaming———

Taised coaming.

EtG ec

| 2234

. Q. Then as I understand it, over the engineroom there’

- was part of the’deck that was raised = a little higher

' than the rest of the deck?

A. Yes, here ‘is the deck; I believe this is the: boat

deck; I am not certifying this correcy. Over the engineroom

was a raised trunk on whic these ventilators. -In

other words, the distance from the engineroom up to the

deck- would be one distance, and then you come up prob-

ably eighteen inches, when you get into the space, which

gives moré air from the enginercom; in other words,

it helps to ventilate that engineroom space. Res

- Q: What is it helps to ventilate the engineroom space?

’ A. This-compartment, this rise, that anmes the hein

of the engineroom.

Q. “It extends the height of the engineroom?

A. Yes..-

Q. In that ‘particular spot, is that it? :

A: Yes. Well, that is: fitted over many cabins and ~

many places; that is its purpose. |

_ Q. How-high did you say. this trunk was?

A. I believe it was, as near as I can memorize or visu-

alize, somewhere about fourteen to eighteen inches. ;

.Q. And the hatchway and the cowl ventilators were on

. top of this trunk, is that it?

A. The hatchway was; now I am’ not certain about the .

cowls, the ventilators.. I think it was a tube or a duct:

but the duct that led into the éngineroom come.over: the

top of that raised deck. , 8.

Q. If the stenographer has it correctly, Captain, I

don’t understand it; ‘would you read the question again to -

him.

; (Precéding testimony was read.)

Q. Well now, you-have. a statement. of a duct; what. -

do you mean by that?

A. That is the extensicn, the tubing that goes.from

a ventilator, goes into small lines; that is after it Jea

the cowl sections. an air Gust or ventilator duct or venti-

- lator tubing.

Q Well, these. cowl. ‘ventilators, as 1 endertend - it,

came down to the top of the ‘trunk? :

A. Uhm, hmh. "3 oe

Q. Have you any recollection. of their coming any

farther than that? Peery we

A. No, I have none. |

~-Q. There has been some suggestions, Captain, of some

two-inch pipes with goosenecks at the top, fixed in the

‘ deck besides this trunk and extending down into the en-—

'.. gineroom. Did you see anything like that—extended into

the bilges? Ss bes

A. I didn’t notice them, sir; I didn’t observe them.

Q. When you describe the means of ventilation in.the’

engineroom, you~ did not mention my such. thing, did

you? :

A. No, sir.

Q. And I bien: you to say yon did not observe -

any such thing? >

A. No, sir

a was had.)

peop .

Mr. “Matteson:

-* * * T move to strike out the testimony of this wit-

ness. on direct examination that he passed this vessel

for insurance. 7

etaien and argument.)

Mr. Botts: » antonio

-— *%-*-* F move to ‘strike all the testimony’ “whereby. he

was qualified by his experience as an expert. I refer

. to the testimony as-to the length of time that he was

acting as surveyor, for whom he has worked, and his

‘.

* various qualificatiotis. They asked him every question

that would qualify him as an expert. ***

Mr. Matteson: 3 :

If Mr.-Undetwood will agree in this case that he will

not in this case for any purpose, at any time, rely upon

the testimony of Mr. Bernard as ‘an expert, or on his

report as a qualified expert, the situation would be quite

different... *.* * eae

The Court: - etest eer | ae

' I will have to adhere to my original ruling. The motion

is denied. * * * . , i Steer;

(By Mr. Matteson): | s

Q. Mr. Bernard, do you. draw a distinction between

an insurance survey and a condition survey? .-

A. I do, certainly do. i seage us

Q. What is the difference? _ iene

A. I-am carrying out a condition of survey now here -

on a yecht going to the west coast. I call for that yacht

to be dry docked, her bottom cleaned, her plates drilled

for thickness; both tail shafts out, thrusts opened up.

‘Mind -you, this is two lines of shaft,—inboard and out:

board shaft; going on now, right here in Miami. .The

fuel tanks emptied, all.‘fuel taken out, and entered. and

cleaned. That has been done on this yacht. The work

on the port engine, I inspect every cylinder head; taken

to the yard, treated to remove sand and hard scale. Re-.

moved every piston, wrist pin, connecting rod, and its ~

: :. bearings; laid them: out and examined: them. I have

~~ Stripped the engine casing of that pott engine, and had '

men go, in there and clean it, and a man who is

responsible to me, to. see that it is clean, all crevices.

‘When that is completed I am going over/on the port engine;

when that is completed I will go- into\#he pressure tanks

> -

\ : j

\ : x +e

: °

‘ . . . x

’ 2 . ee

~4 PONS eesi Es Mee Pay, Ee eee a s &S + < ; *

PET BET a SSS SIR Sa

. . ‘ . ; me :

i 2

: .

e .

aT...

“and pit hydraulic pressure on them and test them out,

also take the thickness of those. tanks. I will go to the

_ switchboard; I am not an expert electrician, but I will

have a report from an electrician, as to the terminals,

and as to the strength of what might be contained in

the fuses of those particular switches. I have Ke oe

been in her bilges; every part of her and. crawled through

them. I have opened up where I could on her skin, ©

_~ and examined her internally. I have searched her masts,

and searched her deck where the masts , searched

the metal stepping, ‘and all coamings and decks, and all

pie-plates on her deck, and the deck itself. I have raised:

cher anchor -chains, gone down into her chain \ocker;. -

removed the protection. boards in the bilges,—had - hem _.

_ removed, to get into the bliges, to see the condition of ©

surveys, ©

‘Q. And is that the kind cf a survey you made with \

__Tespect to the Seminole? * aN

- A. It was an inspection for insurance purposes. \

Q. And not‘a condition survey?

A. No; not as known as a condition survey. ee

-Q. What dé you charge for a condition survey?

A. A‘condition survey? I am doing thgt for Lloyd's,

' Lloyd’s Classification of Vessels, and I have nothing’ to

_ . do with the charge. They are paying me a charge that

I-might submit, as to the’ number of visits required and

the energy 1 may have to spend there. It is in-the book ;

there. Mr. Thompson—that book he holds, he has got ..——

it there. I weuld have it if I had the books, but the :

property happens not to ve mine.

Q Well, it woul2 pe a good deal more ener $17 50,

wouldn’t it? -

A.. Sir? .. ae

Q. * That work would amount to a ‘good deal more

_. than $17.50?

_ as-to condition. ‘ea

2238.

A.- Would, you allow me: to answer abouit. the $17.50?

Would you like to know about that?

Q. Just answer the question.

A. It would be more, yes, sir; it would go into prob-

ably $235.00 and might involve the owner,—you see, that

is the fee, and’-may involve the owner in .spending $2,- .

000.00 or more. This owner will probably spend $2500.00. _.

Q. And for what Pere would that amount be ex-

‘pended?

A. Opening up, dxy-dncking the coleak, opening up,

meeting the requirements of painting bottom—cleaning -

and. painting bottom, pulling out all shafts, doing what -

' is required to do to the bearings, to maintain her conilition

as being a-l, what might be involved in renewing parts

of-engines that might be required? to. bring her to a-l

Q. That's what you do to bring Se ‘to. an a-l con-

dition?

A. Bring* her’ up; ren is classed, mind you; and the.

Seminole was ‘not a classed vessel. There are only a

few rules and regulations that might: guide you as far

as the Seminole was concerned, being in condition, —or .

_-any such type of vessel. They are classed by eehrent

‘requirements from the ordinary—.- - °

Q. Do you think the standards of safety with respect

to class jobs are.any different than the standards So safety -

_ with respect to other: ~~ 4 |

Mr. Underwood:

‘I object: to that, on the -ground itis. the-same-type-of ——* i

' question to which your Honor Sustained objection be- ~

vona-s.c tbeteah eZ .

8 °

(The question was read.)

Do you mean, Mr. Matteson, to inquire—to. make: this

¢ question the basis for comparison of the different kinds

of exaraination casands he Pe | 0

Mr. Sastlaohin

Yes, sir./ He has talked about. two Kinds of classifi-

cations, two kinds of. surveys; and I am trying to draw

‘out wha the: difference between them is.

The Court: eee NSE THe seek

I think that goes ssi the question of the examination, —

the-character of examination he made. I will overrule |

that objection..

‘(Argument by counsel.) '

Let me ask ‘the witness a question, and that will help

me rule. That is a technical — I. think, Mr.—

Captain Bernard.

A. Yes, sir.

The Court: - Sa Ue lage |

1. will ask you, would that heip the Court in deter-

mining the degree of —s of your investigation

of the Seminole?

A. I don’: think it applies, sir.

. The Court:

- —Well"Peustain the objection: severse-my riiting.

(By Mr. Matteson): "

‘Q. You are familiar with the rules of Lloyd’ s Register

A of Shipping, with respect to composite and steel yachts,

a copy of which has been marked Libelants’ Exhibit 401,

are you ‘not? .

~ that.

Q..

_ Struction. and classification of woodéi mayachts, Libelants’

Exhibit 101A? 5 een

but

- to do I might get a pamphlet that would be an’ extract

from some rule’ rsd or some, necessary required ex-

amination:

Q. Well, are ‘you, va I understand, , now making a

- Lloyd's survey of a yacht here- ‘in Miami?

A. . Yes, sir. ° "1

Q. And are you guided by Lloyd's rules in 1 making

- that survey? ' ase ty Nite

* & ' 3 am, from ‘the office rules and the forms from.

‘ the office covering that.- I am not taking’ it—it is the °

result of a determined formula,: or rules and regulations

set. up as. réquiréd, to put. that véssel in class.- ,

_Q.

te yd's eres to that. -yacht, in some other form than -

we have

A, /Yes,' sir; “have it in a pamphlet Seth. y don’t have

to » have it in that ‘big: book form. — Fo

aa ‘them: before, : but that’s the way IT am working on.

/ . that job; That's a number-1 classed. oe

Q. Well; what are these rules that. you have produced,

Captain? ~ - : 4

Me “Und Lrwool: | |

I ‘object to the ‘witness being asked’ what | \papers are, | ie

Resa: the papers “are in eviderice. '—

hp Paes : ‘the rules igs io ag ‘Hie required bas Lloyd's ¢ to guide

NO eee A SEE S SV AMES

No, sir, I am not, that’s «1 the first. time I ever nak

~ Well, does. that also’ aie a this one book, con-

[might get a ili from that particular.yvo

am not ‘familiar with the volume. If I had Werk

Well, do: you mean that you have the rules of

re? er BY > ” ee

Have you a copy. of that pamphlet with you. ;

_T have, yes. ¥ don't: think anybody ‘here \has

hat are they? peste ceestirais barge 2 a

“co 3 ae . } aig”

Se ae

I can’t describe them. _sit.. They are- portion | fy)

-|. oe hide .

MM ghee NT hog i See |

ys Sere es: ) > es

224

man that ‘they send out on a ‘particular job; and some

of that job may have been done by some other man. that

- may come here, and I have a “record -of what the other

man. did; and I have a record of what I should piek up

now;" and _when she goes, to the west coast,” the other

ran will’ have a ‘record of what the last man ‘didn’t do.

That doesn’t apply to all of this.

Mr. Mattéson: | .

-T would like to’ have th ese marked. for identification.

"The Witness: er : f

I can’t take those; ‘I have ‘got to return them where ,

Co got them. I will type ‘them out. ors

Q. Could -we ‘borrow. them. long ehough to. whetostat :

~~ them?

A: They have got two: books that have the same thing

in them. I don’t need to give those up.

Q -I think they must be in here. See that red book

over there? I guess you can get it, or the green book

underneath there: ~ : a a i

.Mr, Bits: Ee

- That blue. book, I ‘think: that | is the one.

A. You will tind ‘them along here; special survey:

number 2, periodical surveys.

. Q. Well, those don’t seem to be like these that. you

x45 have shown us.

A. This is ‘a ship, see, ion veel That is pertairiing

particularly © to the \small type of yacht.. They have

eliminated, see;-some\of the rules that would not apply

_ to that sized vessel, ani they have’ made-it up in a pamph:

let ‘to'make it easy for the man, or the owner, ori the job,

‘or something for the man to. stand by so owner will

+now what. he has to contend with.

* them. I am honorable that way, when I get ares l

come familiar with them.:

2242

Q. Well, would you have any objection to our borrow-

ing this from de jest Jong —— to have them : —

stated?

‘ee burrowed them from someone else, I don’t .know

~what I am going to do about tha® I can type them and

_give them ‘to. you, but I am not going to let them go out

of my hands: I have got an office, I. will go and type

am going to hold onto: it and return. it.

‘'Q.. Will you do this for us, Captain; will you, when

you get back to your office, call the Biscayne Engineer-

ing Company and ask them to make photostats of these

and $end the bill to me?

A. All right. i am going on the job when I aot out. |

of ‘here.

Q. Now, Captain,. -you made the statement that these

rules that we have just referred. to, do not apply to

the Seminole; what do you mean. by that? |

A.’ She is not a classed ‘vessel. | ae

Q. That's all you mean a that?

A.. Yes. ,

Q. - * You are familiar with these —— governing

marine fire hazards?

Pee could refer “to them. I should. think that they’

contain what I am after. -{ am not familiar with them,

_I don’t have them by heart, but I know they exist in

there, the various rules. They ‘might wish me to be-

Q. I am referring now te Libelants’. Exhibit 97. Do

vou use those rules in your business?

A. When they apply, yes, sir.

Q. And in making the. examiination of a-yacht for

insurance, purposes, do ‘you consider’ those regulations ‘ap-

ply?

A. Yes, they ie not - compulsory, I don’t think.

. They are established.

. 5 .

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ae 2243

< Are they the rules that you follow?

' A. No, sir, they are not; I. don’t always. follow them

to the detail; no, sir. .

- Q. Weil, what are those. alin, Captain?

A. Well, they. are rules and regulations governing

marine fire hazard, indorsed by. the American Marine —

Standards Committee, National Board of Marine Under-

writers.

Mr.’ Unibierweod: aps 3

: Captain, when you made that answer you were read-

’ ing from the cover of the pamphlet, were you not?

A. Yes. sure. .

‘(By Mr: Matteson):

Q. Well, then do I understand you to say thet ee’

you make a survey that you understand is to be used

for insurance purposes, you are or are not yma i

those rules? as

_A. I am not guided by them; I try to follow. them as

best I can, as near as the book will allow or. the job

-smight support. « ;

_ | Q. And you also said, I think, that you are familiar

with these rules which are entitled, Regulations for the

Prevention of Explosion and Fire on Motor Boats, Ap-

proved by the National Board of Fire Underwriters, which

has beén marked in this case Libelants’ Exhibit 24?

A... 1 am ‘familiar with them.

Q. And do you apply those in your surveys that are

ve to be .used for insurance?

A. I have copies that I take with me most every

SUrV ey, and try to comply with them; and those that ‘are

determined not to follow out, I will stipulate it jn the

end of my report, around “Something wanted”. .

Q. Then if you find something which does not com-

ply with the rules here, I understand ‘that’ you. note it

at the foot of your survey?

2244

ee Mie Gael | Ss

Is that. right? i

I do as a rule, if there is anything; yese \"

You did not note in your survey: of March 29, 1935,

the presence of the drain valves, did you?

A. No, sir, I. didn’t know they were there. -

Q. And drain valves are’ one thing that are prohibited

by these rules of the National Fire Protection Associa-

tion,—drain valves in the engineroom, ‘is that not right?”

A. Yes, sir, I think there is a paragraph there; draw-.

. off—they mention them as draw-off; draw-off from the

gasoline lirfe.* I think you will find it there on the second

page, item- 14, maybe.

Q. Yes, here it is, on page 4 of the exhibit 95, para-

graph G; outlets on gas feed line for drawing loose

gasoline for any purpose whatsoever, are prohibited in

the engineroom compartment.—I would like to ask you

this question; you say that you did not-note‘this in your

report, and you have given: two possible reasons for not

noting it in your report; one, that you didn’t see them,

didn’t know they were there: and the other, that .some-

times you, don’t note things when you regard them as ;

. extreme. .Now which: was the reason you didn’t note that

- in this report? |

A. I didn’t see them?

- Q. Did I understand. you to say there was a shut- off

on the storage batteries?

A, Shut-off? ;

Q. Or cut-off. cr cut-out? .

_A. Ne, I didn't locate that. There must have “been

OPoY

‘a cut-out by which to separate the batteries from the

-.. Switchboard.

Q. You mean, on the switchboard, or somewheres?

_ A. I couldn't tell you’ where it was, ‘. didn’t\ ldcate

that and I didn’t-memorize it.

_Q. You didn’t locate that? © = * ee : ‘.

2245.

A. I didn’t try it out, but I presume I read the right

way; see; it was in conjunction with the. switchboard.

Q. You said. something about your understanding that

that vessel was to be used on a short voyage; did I un-

derstand you correctly on that?

A. That’s what ‘I understood, yes, sir.

‘Q. What did you understand by a: short voyage?

A. Well, it. was going to make a ‘Short. run, a short

trip’ somewhere.

Q. And—

A. Down to the Keys, in these waters, down to the

Keys, as I remember it now. Someone said she was

going to Cape Sable; as I remember it, she wished to:

go to Key Largo and return, with:a party.

* Q. And was it your understanding that it was simply.

for that short voyage. that the insurance was required?»

A. Well, it’ wasn’t put to me that way, no, sir.

—Q. Dol understand that you deny teiling Mr. Hawkins

that there was a plate that needed reinforcing? ,

"A. T didn't report any bad _ plate, sir..

Q. You didn’t mention any such — to Mr. Hawkins?

_A. No, siree.

Q. And if you had noted any such thing, it would -

have been important for you to have Lagoa that in

your report,. would it- not? |

_ A. Oh yes, or keep away from the job until it was

made good. I don’t think I’ would have made any re-

port; kept off the job. o =

(The last answer was read at the request of Mr.

= Underwood. }

Q: If you knew, and if you examined a vessel and

you knew that she had a plate reinforced in concrete — ~

- with concrete, would you repcert her in. good condition

without mentioning that fact?

ess would have to mention it, -yes, sir.

2246 ©. - ; /

Mr. Matteson: —

I think that is all at this time.

. |

: By Mr. Botts: ly 3

Q. I understand you went twice into the engineroom;

correct?

& Pee

Q Were they both on the same- day or did you go

in the engineroom on each day?

A. I went in there on two visits.

-Q.. Probably on two — days?

A. Yes.

Q. The first visit was for the purpose of examining

the mechanism for the ‘bilge pumps as I understand? ©

' A. No, sir,—oh, yes, that is in connection .with the

bottom, yes, sir. :

Q. And how long did you way in there at that time,

to your best recollection?

‘A. I might have been there fifteen minutes. .. |

Q. And. about the same length of time . the second

-day? | .

‘.. A. About that, yes, sir. : 3 ae

. Q. -Now you stated that you examined her pipe. Lines

and found them tight?

- A. I don’t think so,”no, sir; I didn’t examine the p pipe

_ lines. -I might find that pipe line— —

~ Q. You said that you found no leaks in "the pipe

lines?

A. 41 would like to know what pi ae line you are re-

_ ferring to.

Q. I don't know, you used the expression. Well, did

you examine hef pipe lines?

A. If you name them-I will tell you.

Q. Did you. examine any of them?:

A.” examined the gasoline line, ves. :

2247

2 ‘ Pd

Q. You examined the gasoline line. Now that in-

cluded the lines from the intake on the deck, down to the.

carburetors,. did it?

A. Well, they are not connected; they are related to

one another only by distance between = tank extension

‘ or construction. ~

Q. Read the question.

.. (The question was read.)"

A. I couldn’t reach in and see the filling line, any .

“more than to see the cognection was tight on deck; to

examine the filling line, any more than to see that there

"was a tight connection from the tanks to the deck.

Q. So you didn’t examine it?’

A. T didn’t make any assertion that I had examined

-. the fill line.

@. You don’t know whether that fill line leaked or

not, do you? ———_-

A. Tt was intact to the deck, as required; ‘and: to search

it as far as we could go.

Q. Was there. any Bas in the tanks when ou.examined

hey ; :

' A. I didn't look for gas.

Q. You don’t know whether there was any gas in ine

tanks or not. You made an-examination to see whether

there was a gas leak?

A. Umh, hmh.

»Q. Didn’t you?

- A. Umh, hmh,

_Q. Did it occur to you that it would. be a good idea

to find out whether there was gas in the tanks, before

you examined to see whether there was fs ee ont

of the tanks?

A. How would I do it? *

Q. I am asking you.”

cod

. shut-off valves at the tanks, between the tanks and

2248.

A. I wouldn't attempt to find out whether there was

gas, alone in the engigerome: I presume there was gas ~

there. 4 tts

Q. You creuutat there was 3 gas?

A. Yes.

Q. But you don’t know?

A. No, I don't.

Q. Now then did you examine to know there were

carburetors?

A. Shut-off. valves on the tank. :

Q. Between the tanks and the carburetors?

A. There were shut-off valves at the tanks and ae.

the carburetor. :

Q. All right now, then, did you examine those valves’

to find out “whether they were opened or closed?

A. No, sir, I did not handle. them.

. Q. They might have been wide open so ‘far as "you

. know?

- -A. And they could’ stay that way as | far as I was con-

cérned: _I- wouldn’t touch. them.

- Q. I am just trying to. find out what. you did.

_ A. I would not manipulate them, see. . :

Q. I am. not asking you. what you would have, I am

trying to find out what. you actually did do; that is what

I am trying‘to get)at. Now then you didn’t try manually,

with your hand ¢r otherwise; a single valve anywhere in

that pipe line system, did you?

- As No, I digin’t. ‘

Q.. And did you go into the tank compartment?

. «A. I couldn't get in there,

— .Q: There was no’ way: that you could get in there,

was there?

A. -Might get a look in, get your. eyes up in there and

: get a scant view of the side of a tank.

2249

Q. But there was no way by which you could really

make an examination of those tanks to determine anarage

or not they- were tight, was there?

A. No, sir, there was not:

_ @. And you didn’t attempt to make such an examina-

‘tion, did you?

A, Ne.

Q. All right.

A. . What I did, ‘to prove those tanks were not leak-

ing, was to see there was.no evidence of gasoline odor ©

or a drip or. drain in the bilge; that’s why I followed the

‘bilge. =~

Q. So far as you could tell from the examination

by the physical situation . pees, you found no Teak,

is that it?

.A. No leak, no; the tanks were tight.

-Q. Now since you don't know whether or not the -

_gas if.any in the tanks, was cut off at the tanks,’ you |

won't know whether or not there was any gas in the

it gas meee at the time you made the examination, do you? .

Mr. eliibieoad: : Renner.

- I object to the — as speculative

Mr. Botts: eed

‘Strike it off.

Q ‘Do you ‘tow ‘whether there was gas in the gas

; _lines frem the tanks to the carburetors when you ‘made

_ the examination?

A. I believe there was, ves. v -

Q. Well now, what: makes you think so, if you don’t

know whether there: was gas. in the tanks?

A: Well, we. will presume there was ona : in the tanks.

_ I know ‘there was gas in the tanks.

/ Q.. Well, how do you know it?

tie

A. I can’t tell you what elevation there: was, but you .

could tell whether a valve was started from its.seat by

its valve system,—to an engineer. 13

Q. But you.didn’t touch the valvés, you say?

A. I didn’t touch them.

Q. As a matter of fact you don’t. know whether there

was any gas in those gas lines or not, do you?

A. “I presume there was gas. :

Q. You —— there was, but you don’t know, do

you?

A. No, I am. net positive:

Q. All right. Then isn’t this a fact; that all you

can say is that you saw no gas leak? Isn't that about

as far as you can go?

A. Yes, I can say this;-that I saw no ‘evidence of Gare

‘ having been a gas leak.

Q. All right. You didn’t touch any of the valves to

see whether they were opened or closed or their condi-

tion? Did you touch any of the pipe lines?

A. .I went over the pipe line; yes.

Q. How?

A. Went along it, oBerved it by the — —flash-

light I had in my hand.

_Q. Was the engineroom. ‘dark?

~A. It wasn’t any, ‘too light.. |

Q>: This was in the daytime, ‘wasn’t it? ~~

A. Fee ee 7

Q. The shades. pulled | on the windows, were they?

A. I don’t krow, I didn’t observe arly shades on any

of the windows,

Q. Well; the engineroom was so: dark that in ‘order

for you to make any sort of an examination you used

a flashlight, is that right?

A. It is — to carry a flashlight in a place like

that.

Q. Did you use your flashlight?

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2251

ap I might have uséd~it from habit, yes, sir. onan

Q. You don’t know whether you used ee flashlight

or not?

A. I don’t know whether I turned the ‘than on at

that particular time, or no; but I believe I did. .

Q. - Now isn’t it true a your examination was very

superficial?. . irs i .

A. No, sir

Q You didn’t bok around carefully to see whet was :

in that wo peitant sb did you? ;

A. .I did. I:

Q. _I wonder if you saw ‘the valve here that has been— |

I am referring: now to Libelants’ Exhibit 11, did you see ~

that pair of valves in the engineroom anywhere? :

A. I think—that is the overflow valve; I wouldn't

recognize those valves,’ but I know from what: t have

heard that-those are— => — |

Q. Did you see those valves? ee

A. I can’t remember whether I ‘saw them or no. There

may be others like them, I may have seen other valves,

‘I couldn't tell; I don’t have that -in mind, five years.

Q. I call your attention to Libelants’. Exhibit 13, the

gasoline can; did you see that can in the engineroom? “os

A. - No, sir.

Q. I call your attention to ‘Libelants’ Exhibit 14, the :

top part of ‘a funnel; did you see a funnel—. :

A. I can’t recognize it. I didn’t see any funnel.

Q. You didn’t see anything of the kind. “If the three

objects to which 1 have called your attention, namely, the

pair of valves, the gasoline can and the funnel, or any

_ one of them, were in the engineroom, it didn’t sufficiently

impress you that you have recollection of iti is that

Tight?

A. ‘No, sir, I don’t ‘recollect him,

- Q. You have no recollection of them. Now you have

stated that you examined the switchboard, and that the

. switchboard. was in good condition, is that right?

SSIES . 2252"

Aid didn't say the switchboard; I said the switches.

_ But I said the switchboard and all the conditions were .

‘what would be ‘considered a good switchboard. I didn't

have time to examine the switches. That is just. the

switchboard in general,

-.Q. Well, i made a memorandum, I don’t want to go

back to the testimony, but didn’t you: say in your direct

examination -that you examined the switches and that

they were in good condition? .

_ A. Examined the switchboard and the. connections.

;Q. You didn't examine the. ‘switches then to find out

whether they were in good condition?

A. I didn’t see anything’ the matter with them.

Q. Wait a minute now. Did you examine the switches?

A. Yes, why I.examinéd the switchboard; I didn’t de-

- tail every switch; I made no observation of the condi-

tion of the other ‘switches .on that particular switch-

board.

Q. You just walked up to the ‘switchboard and took

a glance around? .

“A. [went there in a hurry, yes. ooh gin ee gaa

> Glanced around ‘hurriedly? _ — -

. It doesn’t take a man that knows, to know to read

a pelt Pass if it is wrong. -- <

“ Q. Well, you are not here as an. expert, ‘so Lae: know

-* whether: you know or,not. So far as you eneerees. the”

switches were in good condition?

A.. Yes, sir. fs ,

._ - Q. Now when you said that you observed the location ’

of the switchboard and that it was well above the floor,

which is essential,—to use your language. Why is it es-

sential to have. the switchboard well above ‘the level: of -

the floor?

A. .Well, it is precautionary measure, to keep knife.

action or spark cdnditions away from -low places, and

_in the event of an accumulation of vapor or gases that

might be hazardous. | | messy.

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| 2253

_ @Q. Now then where is that blueprint?—I understand

that you examined the bilges very carefully and went

through all parts of them, and made_a particular exam-

ination as to the bilges; is that right? = -

A.- I examined them. When'I examined them why I

examined them, ~ is all; .I don't say, very carefully,

very cafefully, a Drctng Sas

‘ : 55 _ ww a

{At 12:30 o’clock P. M. the iietinis' recessed until |

2:00 o'clock p. m. of ‘the same day, May 19, 1939.) °

“t May 19, 1939, 2:00 P. M. _

Afternoon. Session. ! |

'_“«

”

2832“ ‘Thereupon E. GEORGE BERNARD, a witness’

: produced by the Respondent Phipps, resumed the

_ Stand and was examined and testified ° as Tollows: |

<r e ;

Cross Examination (Cont'd. ).

By Mr. Botts:

Q. Captain, you: recall the little alley way to- the .star-

board of: the engineroom, don't you? i

A. Yes, sir. +

~Q. Now then do you recall “the construction of the .

partition between the alleyway and the engineroom?

A. Do you mean the shape or—-.

Q. Do you recall the material of . which it was con-

structed? '

A. Steel, I believe.

Q. Now I want to ask you if there v were four two-inch

ventilators that passed up and went by that partition} and,

‘up through the deck of the engineroom?~

A. I didn’t see that; sh may Cee Sone but I don't |

know. a,

fos

z , So , (@

, _§

oe F A en

| ae. indacinsids ef aes A

_. SS ene minyte, Let him finish. If your Honor ‘lenee;”

"> -T will-ask you to instruct Mr. Botts not to interrupt the

witriess.. He has offended very seriously in that —

_-and I have been very, _ patie About - it,

be Court: ste aN :

I think the witness s ought i to ‘finish his answer. .

“Mr Botts: | a fo 32 pial Cees ne . | ae

, Certainly: .. ™ let him. fina. aE ae

Way: Underwood: per - oe 2

~ May we haye the answer, read? eS ae a, is

(Thereupon, the desitiag answer was read by: -™ Re- ‘

+ Pere as’ above recorded.) ENS |

The Coutti: 2 Ne Meee Bee *, fas

~ Did. you finish your answer, Mr. Witness? nee wade sf a

athe Witness: .

Bs ae ene? Yes.0 Qo.

"The Court:

All nent ‘proceed.

Mr. Bottsy.

fie Now, do you apologize? -

Me. ‘Underwood: thie SC eee are ; seer.

No, Edo not.. - es a,

| (By-Mr. Botts): | : |

<7 1> Q@, You: went. ‘down. fnto: the blige. did you? ”

A. | was in Sai ‘Blew yes.

- - 5 j : . e /

—*

2255

°c * Now were there four ventilators, ine inch venti-

_ lators, from down below the bilges, in the bilges and along

about’ where, that partition was and running from the

bilges up into and through ‘the deck. of the engineroom? -

| In which bilge space are you referring to? *

Approximately underneath the _engineroom?.

That would be the engineroom bilge space?

Ye. — | ae,

I didn’t see any pipe. a aaa

Were there four more over on.the port. side?

_I believe I have answered that’ question, sir. _

PPOROROPG

Q I asked you on the starboard side. Now I- asked

you if.there were four more on the port side?

A. I didn’t see any pipe. =

Q.. You examined all down ‘there, didn’ t you?

A._T, “examined the bilges in regards to the condition 2

. of! ‘the ‘hull but not: as to the—

tors? Fs ot ot dh RO

A. Idid: sae : -

~Q. You y: 7 did?

A. Yes.

Q: Then if ave had- been ventilators there you i weed

_«,” shave seen them? ‘

Q. Did es examine them with ‘reference. to ventila-

A. They would have been bietty small ventilators if /

’ they were intended to ventilate the bilges—two inch ven-

tilators. “

- Q You saw nothing of. that kind”.

A:\ No. ° *

Q. Now was there : any “ventilation in the tankroom

space? ,

A: Will you name. the tank space? y 2

‘Q The main tank-1oom space aa forward of the en- -~ |

ginéroom? ~~

A.. J can't. remember whether I checked that or not.

/ ”

TS ay

vgs

2256

. Q.- As a matter of fact, Cietatn, an examination for

insurance such as you were making is not a complete —

examination by any manner of means,.is it?

A. In what view is it not complete, , sir?

Q. In any respect’ is it a complete examination?

A. Complete examination? I don’t know what you

_ are drawing the line on as to complete examination. I _

thought wé had that kind of an answer this morning. .

Mr. Botts: \

Read the ee ‘sence Mr. Reporter,

(Preceding question read. by- the Reporter as’ “above

recorded. )

, ia

(By Mr. Botts):

Q. Would you mind answering that ‘mites and then a

make any explanation you desire? ’

A. Our purpose in making sych examination is to try

to. fill out the application to direct the underwriters to

-tiie~ general condition of the vessel, particularly applica- .

tions for ‘insurance:

Q. Is that examination a complete examination or not?

‘A. It was iri so far, as that was-concerned, that typ¢

of examination. ; ve

Q: That type of examination?

A. . Yes. ‘

; Q. It is net a very * thorough examingtion, however

ee oy Captain?

- A.’ Are y6u referring to me personally as to what. a

did or what is required on that /application?

Q. What -you did? a 4 :

‘A. It was the best of my intention to “fill that re-

aysement, >

Q: Did you make a thorough examination. of that

engineroom?

. “ " .

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2257

a” That was in my. tiie te. de and I i date I did.

I did the best I could under such an examination, ‘such:

_a form of examinatiun; I. didn’t strip or open her up, and

I wasn't required to do that. It was a dead-job and

without ‘an engineer; I did the best I could. .

ec: Captain, I don’t want you to misunderstand me: :

am not criticising your examination, but i am tryi

to develop its character: when you examine for insurance

you make a rather casual examination. rather.than a

thorough examination, and isn’t that the ordinary practice

of every surveyor?

A. I am sure I cannot answer that; that is “outside

of my reach. I can't answer for: anybody else, and I

can’t, answer for the rules and regulations of the Under- z

wr ‘iters.

Q.’ As to yourself, Captain, isn’t ‘your examination for

‘insurance rather casual .than thorough? Bo

ye -my position I don’t believe I can accept ‘any Sy

form. Sent out by the Underwriters to be filled out. I

do not criticise that but— — oes

Q. You do, not ‘seem to understand my question. -

(Preceding question read by the Reporter as above .

recorded. )

A. If you Can give’ it to my dines I cay answer it;

if there is any man we can answer it I can.

< Mr. Botts:

Would you 1 mind — my question, Mr. Sines

7 (Question re-read by the Reportey yas above: recorded. a6

A. If I could ibiasions it I weuld be: willing to an-

_ 2258 ies Ra ie

Q. Can’t you answer that, Captain? You seemed. to

answer in detail on your survey. . , :

_A.- I can’t do it because I have no: subject in front

of me to work on. If you will put before me a definite

- subject to,;work: on, I will try to answer you, but you

haven't given me anything to work on. You have asked -

me ‘a question and you don’t. seem to understand: it your-

self.

; " - That is: what-I ami trying. to get you to explain,

so that I will understand it. I will ask you again, Cap-

tain:- When you examine a vessel for insurance do you

, make a thorough and complete examination? -You can

answer that yes or no, and then you can explain it to

your heart’s content.

A. I make an examination to ‘ascertain the facts,

whether there is a claim or where the necessities require

"you .to make it complete in one way or another. Every

. examination is not the same'because each and every par-

ticular ship design is different and’ they have specific

- requirements. We are supplied with a book of rules and

- regulations and. we try to comply with them.

Q. Did you make a complete examination of the

Seminole: for this Zing ~owal

A. When -yqt “Did I make: a: complete examina-

tion”, I would say > at I didn’t open up any machinery -

and parts of this ship, and I wouldn’t consider it a com-

plete examination without I did.

@. When you were down in the bilges did you craw!

cown ‘into that anaes of the bilges below the engine-

room? freee

A. Below. the engineroom?

-— ae. §

A. No: I am too big to-ge-in there.

Q. So you don’t know what was below the | engineroom

floor? 5

A. Yes; I can get my head’ and shou}lers ‘into these

two com@artments or speces, ‘and if hey are clean T can

. ° . . # °

° : 4 > rs

—

. ‘ °

i , 3 . bd a A

- e : i

e .

oo A : Be a iiitnhiennecemnnnmneninnintns temmiubitn

. . ‘ ‘ .

7 .

‘

a (2259

by. such observation as required readily ascertain the con-

ditions.

_.Q When you were “down in the. bilges, then, as 1

- understand it, you looked down under the engineroom

floor but, didn’t crawl down underneath, is that right?

A. I would say ghat I would have if I could, but I

couldn't. :

Q. You looked but you didn’t get down there, is that

true?

A. Yes, that is true. > ;

Q. Now when you were in the engineroom you didn’t

take up the sections of the floor that are said to be re-

movable in order ‘to look down underneath:here?

A. I can’t remember; I ‘can’t remember the type of.

floor it was; whether it h was board ‘or- plating or whatnot,

. but I was able to remove them enough to exnoomae myself

_. that the conditions were right. —

Q. Did you. remove some portions of the

- A. I can't remember, but I know I convinced myself

they were all right;'I would say they were all right.

Q. What did it take to convince you that things were’

all right?s

A. Existing conditions and pa ‘4. could ahnive. ,

Q, Now then did you examine all of the-gasoline pipes —

from the tanks to the engines and’ darburetors? __

A. I believe I answered that question before, sir.

Q. Just humor me by answering it now, will you? . I

haven't. asked it before. © es,

The Coirrt: i fs big Vt

Even at the ae vaiiliie you had better answer

the question “a again,’ Captain.

A. I examined the gasoline 1 ee from the (nin to the

engines and motors.

Q. . Were any portions of those lines that you examined -

underneath the floor? =~ : |

2260

- A: I can’t remember that. I have been on a good ‘

many vessels since that was done. .

Q: In order to know that you had examined these

lines you had to trace them from the tanks to the various

carburetors, didn’t you? ©

A. You. could see them, sir; you er follow them

almost with your eye. while standing in‘one piace.

. * Q.- If they were in the engineroom you couldn’ ?

_ A.’ No.- .

Q I mean if they were under the engineroom age

you ‘couldn’t?

A. No. |

'Q. Did you take up he engineroom oer to examine

those portions that were underneath the engineroom floor?

A. These movements or actions of mine I can’t re-

member exactly but I. ned I convinced myself that they

were all right. ;

Mr. Botts:

'* That is_all,

(By Mr. Matteson): a .

Q. I think you said, Captain, that the Seminole was

not a classified vessel? —

_ A. She is classed but I-would not Say she was a classi-

fied vessel. I would not say she’ was not classified: I

would say ‘she is not a classed vessel. eis

Q. There is no reason why .a vessel like the Seminole

could no} be classed if the owner asked to have her

classed and was willing to undergo the expense of it? —

_ A. That would have. to be determined by-the Con-

mitiee through’ sarvey upon application being made by.

the owner to the Committee of Lloyd's; in other words.

_ she might or might not be able to. meet the. require-

ments. =. : (

° . os: : » ‘

. /

- : /

f ~ /

., . atone

— 2 oa 83 as E Ay

; , :

“

2261

Q, ne am not incidng’ so much - as to whether the.

Seminole could pass such an examination or not, but I

mean with respect to a vessel of the type of the Seminole —

there is nothing to prevent the owner making application,

is there, and if she could pass ‘the examination she would

be classed, is that right?

A. I cannot tell you what would be required by biayd’s

to classify that type of vessel; I really cannot answer that

in an intelligent manner.

Q. Any vessel can be classed if she can is the

examination, is that right? | ;

A. They uld always be classed if they oound afford

to meet the‘expense. It makes a difference whether a.

yacht was. designed originally to be classed, to be a

classed vessel? it makes a difference. as to whether she

was cofistructed with the intention of being classed,| or

whether they were just trying to make a vessel of her,

- without any thought of classing her. Sometimes it is a Ear ;

_Matter of. little difference to the owner. ;

Q. If shé is of such construction that she would not

‘ come up to’ Lloyd's. specifications, then there would be

no use of making application, is that right? .

_- A. Well, they might be able ‘to arrange it by cormppen-

sating for: the beams or girders or stringers or deck plates

or bulkwark plate so as to allow it to come. within the

Classification requirements of the vessel. That would be

a lot of trouble and would entail an abnormal expense, -

_. and it might not warrant. you in spending that. much .

-,money to get. the vessel into -that ‘classification.

Q. Any vessel can be classed if she is sufficiently well

, built to meet the requirements i cual can pass the usual

€xamination, is that right? . “ ~

A. That quéstion..is something like rey situation that.

exists. today with the United Fruit Company; they have

\ three or four of the finest passenger vessels carrying |

_freight,because . the ssaicticra eae of the United States

_—S

2262

Steamship Inspection Bureau cannot be met with; it

“would cost $285,000.00 to meet the requirements of the

United States Steamship Inspection Service to allow pas- .

-sengers to run on that vessel— |

Q: Now, Captain, we seem to ‘be — at. cross sat

poses here.

A. T am trying to ery to you, sir, that the cost

' -is prohibitive; that is -what I am ‘trying to explain.

- ' Q. The’ simple question that I am trying to ask you

is just this: Any vessel can be classified—if she can meet

the requirements, whatever they are, by construction,

alterations or whatever it may be—any vessel can_ be

classed if she can meet the requirements; is that right?

_ Just answer my question yes or

A. The structural feat:res of the vegpel would . not

~ warrant the opening and. eangng to make her meet the

| requirements.

Q.. That is something else, Captain: Now I will ask

you the same question again. I think it is very simple -

and you can answer it yes or hot: Isn’t it a fact that

any vessel ¢can-be classed - she can meet the requirements,

structurally or ‘oth

A. I don’t know, I ae think. that is right because

Lloyd's require, when you make application, ‘a detailed

drawing of your keel, specifications as to the thickness*

of your platé and the frame of the vessel, and the posi-

tion of your bulkheads and so forth, before they would-

be interested in classifying her.

Q. You keep telling me, Captain, ‘about the things - :

‘she would have to have in erder to’ meet. the test. |

A. There are some other things involved, and I don't

think the owner would ‘want to pay for it.

- @:» Anybody: could make application if they. wanted

. to-go to the expense, is that right? :

09 Yes, sir. -

_you. I ca to -know. what you. oe

2263 .

be ' Now, Captain, there- has been quite a bit said here .

about insurance surveys and passenger vessels. and ‘pas-

_ senger insurance. You were employed to make this sur-"

vey ‘by the owner:or owners of the Seminole.

“A. I believe - first word of ‘that—I Yalieve the .

first—

Mr. Matteson: 4

I just want to warn him to. tell us @hat he knows of

his own iene and not what somebody else told him,

Mr. iteieeel” ene . a

I submit that the. question asks for a conclusion. “Ask ya

him, by boca ‘he was employed.

The Court:

He said ‘that he was told by Mr. Hawkins in both |

-. instances. ; Fats ¥ igh

Q. You had’ no.communication with any ‘insurance

-’ company. with respect to this survey, did you?

A. ae

Q. You had no authority - $fom any insurance . company ;

jo pass or not. pass ahy vessel for insurance?

A. ‘No, sir; ‘that uld, not be.

Q. You never had that?

-A. I never had such an order.

Q. So this survey, as I understand it, insofar 3 as it is *

called an insurance survey, was a survey that you made

‘for the owners which they could use. in connection with -

their application for insurance, is that right?/

A. I was going to tell you about that when you in- -

_ terrupted me. - That is what I was bordering” on | when-

you in sgn me. he

QE t want to know anything ‘that somebody told

Gor ere

_ A. I understand the owners’ representative made ap-

plication for the insurance, and. they had to-get a survey

repcrt, and they asked me to make out a survey report,

and that was ‘made out and. delivered; I don’t know

where it was: delivered, whether it was delivered ‘to the

agency in Miami or whether it was delivered te Mr.

Hawkins. I just couldn't tell you ‘that, but they handled

the insurance work on that through a local agency and: .

since then I found out that it went to Chubb & Sohs in

New York.

ake Se

Mr. Matteson: | ,

I move to strike that out, it your enue please:

The Court: —

The motion is granted.

Q. You were paid by ‘the owners of the vessel for

vour survey?

A. I am not sure of that, but I believe I was, sir; I

was paid for it.but I am not certain ‘who it was from.

. Q. Did you observe when you made a survey-of the

~ vessel that the feed line to the small-generator on the port

side of the engineroom was connected to.the bottom to a

trap or. drain like this which has been marked a part

of. Exhibit 17? ane

A. What? -

Q. I asked you did you observe. that the. gasoline feed

line that led to the small generator on the port side of

the enginercom was connected to the bottom” of a trap -

or drain such as the one which is a part of Exhibit 17’

A..I can’t remember that; I can’t rémember a detai! - -

like that: ys ‘

Q. You are familiar with this kind of a drain?

A. It is a strainer body, I take it to be.

2. You cannot tell us whether or not at the time you

observed that feed line it’ “was connected to the bottom -

‘of ® trap like this?

A. No.

Q. If you had noticed that you would have we” it in

your: report?

Mi. Underwood: :

_ I object to that as speculative.

The Court: Me

Sustained. © é : ‘

Q. I show you this’ paper and otk on if that is your .

signature ai the bottom?

. A. Yes; sure that is my signature.

Q. Is that your handwriting on that page, too?

A. ‘Yes.

Q. There are several questions on the page and the -

aeerens constitutes answers to the questions, .is that '

ight? : ‘

| A. I don't remember anything about that, but if some-

_ is there as being said by me I would want it cor-

. That’s an opinion there, isn’t that: an opinion?

“Q Yes, it is. | ie

A. Well, T think it is right, and T haven't said ae

different frem that. ,

Q.- Iam not suggesting that you have, but these are

your answers to these questions, .is that right? .

- A. Yes, sir; I don't recall them but that is my signa-

ture there.

Mr. Matteson:

cei your Honor please, I would like to meke a formal offer

‘of this paper: I realize ‘that under the ruling you made

_ Sometime this morning that probably it will be excluded,

but I ae like to make-the formal offer, and if it can- -

ng .

‘ aN tah) nee V gies - 2266 , if

za) Us : eat be: admitted then I. weed like to have it sanstiod fo

Pea tie er

n The Coust: ae

. eee "All right; let’ it. be identified now. “Out o} the. regular |

<2 > Gider of procedure’ that has bee’ announced, yo you wish to

ee ae | ewe

Mie, Mattes ES Rey Ae

set oe. ee. Sk, !

\ \ = *s ; : : :

eae Use : i

a caerece fe a pene that it calls for an opinion

of an expert and is not proper cross examination, and I

‘have not called him as ‘such saeco

ses ‘Lhave pecfalited cross. enntelanilion peas the ne: in-

..'°, | ‘dicated by question number 1 in this written sheet. Ques-.

. _ tion numbe=z 3, calls for an answer which is contrary to the

ruling I have previously made, :therefore I exclude the".

7 instrument, A psoiad as qention 3 is concerned.

ae : "We appreciate that that is in accordance with your rul-

; i ke ing this cbse ll Sr ea |

|e “% The -Céurt: : ;

_it- speaks for itself besiotnr ‘as r think Question siiabien }

is pertinent, so I think the purport" of the ruling will be

\* eA. carr ied into effect. if 1 deny your we to admit that |

‘idence.

Mr. Matteson:

"aie Yes: eS

| The Const”

ab right.

. * ad .

: és

_ The Court:

| All right.

Ne a ery

“Then may | we have it marked for identification at this

| The Couri ie: oe ie ie ea

'" Yes. - ar eo +

(Thereupon the document ca to wis marked _

Libelants’ Exhibit 120 for cenpasansis ‘ion. )

Mr. Matteson: \ 4

\ Now, if your Honor please, there is one. other thing, and/

4 do not want to elaborate on.or attempt to re-open the

question. that we’ argued this morning, but I would like it

to appear on the record that there are a number of other

questions exactly along the same line that .I would like |.

.to have asked, but which I did | not feel I could do } eed

) your Honor’ s ruling.

_ Mr. Matteson: |

And I. would also like to make it clear that my. position

will ‘be that, inasmuch as Mr. Underwood has objected

». to’ the examining. of this witness as an expert on whom -

he relies, I shall argue that he is not entitled to o rely on him

"as an expert for any purpose at all.

: \

ReDirect Examination. .

Underwood: eke ee

es Bernard, you -have told us about’ a survey

- Yhat you’are making on a boat now, which you described,

I think, as oo survey; is that correct?

A. “Yes. a

2268

: :

co e

Q. You said’ that you didn't. find any engineer on ae

Seminole when you made your examination? °

.A. That. is correct. |.

“@ Did you send for one? .

we No, ‘sir.

".@ Did : you. consider . that. hecessary ‘to your ‘work at oe

‘that time? . - : cea aap “

A. , No, sir. BS

Q.. “As I understand your testimony, when you. gave an-

swers to Mr. Matteson’ S questions, you concluded that

_ there was no electricity on the switchboard solely from ‘the

- fact that you saw no light burning, is that right? :

A.°. Yes.

“ae Do you remember telling me this morning that ‘you:

w all four of the gasoline tank valves poate _ eG:

into the gasoline manifold? .

A. -Yes, I hand-reached them,

Q. Will you tell us-what you mean by that?:

A. By hand-reach I mean ‘so you can. reach with: your -

: hand. Sometimes: they - are put’in a place like off to the

-.. Side but you could put —_ ‘hand in there. and reach, them

“=> all right.

Q. Did you say that each one of: these valves ¥ was hand-

ae _ reached? Rae oA Tes preteen

A. Yes, sir. .

*'Q. I show you Libelants’ Exhibi 9 which, : think it is

fair to say, is a picture taken. aftér the fire on the Seminole, .

"and I call your’ attentior to the aperture in the bulkhead |

marked number-T; which is a: hole through which the gaso-

line' feed line came from number 1 tank; do you: noté that”

A. : Yes.

Q. And the valve was stationed thiere (pointed)?

A. . Yes.

-Q. I call your attention to the tact that the hole through

_- which number 2 tank feed line led is marked number’ 2?

A. - Yes. Pata ic

"és

_« ~» (ee. , — say

. e 2 ‘5

. . ;

i +

. .

“ . ——

: ‘ i

Q@ Do you see that? ‘

A. Yes.. | = ir 5

~Q Do you see the shelf there indicated on. this picture? _

A. I seé some kind. of an. obstruction thete; I can’t

ee say — itis, but I know you had to go unider

it. .

@: -Do you remember a desk on ‘the forward bulkhead?

The Court:

% ra

_ Let: me suggest. that you not lead ies. Mr.. ‘Underwood.

Just ask him does he. remember a desk there.

Q Do you inaheitahiae a desk in ‘the iersen?

A: No.

Q. Do you reniember wint was to the right of this -

_ shelf which was on brackets shown in Exhibit 9?

A. ‘Is this to port or the center line-of the ship. ©

a It is to port. I think it is fair to-tell you that.

_A. You-are asking me about something to starboard.

Q. Yes;. what was next’or starboard—.

A. There is’ something: like a large obstruction there:

If that is shelving it would really have to be for batteries. .

Q. You see this in this: corner (pointing)?

A. Yes, sir. Z

-Q. Do you see in this whe graph, Exhibit: 9, a bracket

whith might be for’ a shelf? ;

A.’ Yeg. : paar a

Q.-* Do you sank r ohiat that was for?” 6. _

A. No; I don’t

Q. I think it is fair to tell you 5 that the evidence shows :

that the batteries were on shelves that were. in that « ‘corner.

~* Al AMP right.

Q. What I am trying to get. at is” iohathee. you re-

member what was between the shelf that the batteries

were on and. the shelves on the ‘brackets shown in Exhibit

9? Sa : 2 «

_ A. IT don’ t remember.

Baa? | 2270. :

\ .

Q:. You did look at the valve wish onian to the mani-

fold from number 2 teak, ‘did you?

A. Yes. -

‘'Q.° And you saw that?

A: Yeu. a8 3

Q. Do you fuentes now wh, -her there was ie’

- between where you stood and that valve on — 2

tank when you saw that valve? .

A.. I can’t visualize what it was; I don’t know; it is too.

var ago to remember that. ;

Was she along side any pier with a shed on it?

No, not that would obstruct any -possible- light—any

light tha’ could come in came.in where it was possible to

come through that side window or overhead:

Q. Nothing obstructed the light from the port window ©

or through the skylight in the top of the engineroom?

A. I am not sure whether“the skylight was opened.

: Q. Light would come through it — it was opened

or not, would it not? . ;

A. Light would come through the side winder, ‘I be-

_ lieve, but i don’t know where else it would come in there.

Q.. Did*you see these two valves between you and the

valve to number 2 tank when you looked at the valve. to

number 2 tank? - ; ,

Rae

Q. Don't you remember a desk immediately to the

right of- the. valve to number 2 tank? .

A. No.

Q. Captain, is your eye-sight good? :

_A. I can compete with anyone.

Q. And you were. using your flashlight?

‘A. Yes.

Q. And your examination was stenected after sun- .

rise?

A, Early A. M., :

Q. Was the Seminole under any shed?

__ A. No, sir

eee a Se

Mr. Matteson: 4 ae ———..'

These questicns are — if your Horjor please. “aero

The Court: 3 | ‘5 .

Gk ie us bok <i a ee eee to Gl :

ruling of the Court. This is re-direct examination and I .

think you are confined to. ereaibnagr ete. oom, Mr. Un-

. .derwood,

Q. Do you remember whether 0 or ‘not you followed the»

manifold to its end?: =

A. Gasoline manifold? e ¥ LO

Q. “iv ; | eet deta :

Mr. Matteson: : | | :

if your Honor Please, I think that is leading, too. = 5 or

_-' The Court:

No, I don’t think that is leading, but I think he has

answered it, if I. Temember correctly.

Asa have answered it, sir.

Mr. Wider woot:

“T will withdraw the question.

Q. How far did you follow that manifold?

A. The manifold proper from the tanks is almost visible

from dne standing place, if you wanted to locate yourself

on either side of the center line of the ship. :

‘What was at the starboard end of that manifold?

_A line leading aft from the motors; main feed line.

You remember just one line? |

Yes; the feed line ran in that direction.

What was at the port end of the manifold?

A. I believe a valve came out of the tank and turned

.- . in the end port tank and went in and form a manifold. Of:

course this is a “_ time back. Roy

>O> a *#

2272

Re-Cioss Examination.

: By “Mr. Satteion:

' Q. Did you see any trays: under -the tanks?

@A. Trays? - ; -

Q. Yes.° fae :

_A. Tas ses: netic niin ‘We snileialeinas Wiis but I

just ‘could not make out what it was, and I made an in-

‘quiry of a young fellow that was there, and I asked him

if he thought there were trays under there. I asked him

if he had been in the engineroom, and he said that he went .

in there sometimes, and-I just referred to him like this, “I.

believe there are trays under those tanks or the tanks are °

sitting in some kind’ of a tray”; I can’t remember whether ©

I said it was a whole one or a divided one. I just didn’t

_ come to’a decision as to that. :

. Q. Did you consult that boy who was there abdut any-"

’ thing else in thé engineroom? - |

- A. No. He was only a. young man and I-met him here —

the other day in the hall; that is the first time I met. —

‘him since that occasion, and he introduced himself.

(By Mr. Botts):

Q. Well, Mr. benidid did you get any information —

) with reference to this boat from anyone or from any ‘source *

other than your own observation? :

~ Mr. Underwood:

I object to that as immaterial, and it .is improper cross

examination. :

_ The Court: :

Do. you mean hy that’did he base his report that he did

make on in ymation other than that which he himself ob-

tained? .

Mr. Botts:

‘That is correct.

”

The Court:

MT thik he con swe that, The bjstion i overaed,—

* No, sir; it is wholly ond solely. on ) may own tind

ings, oe and writings. _.

Mr. Botts: * oe : eas

That is all. s ‘et : :

-... This survey,-as-¥ ‘it, was marked as an exhibit and”

’ received in for the sole purpose of showing that

‘the report was received. 1 think that is clear in the re- .

cord, but if it was offered for any other purpose, hen’ t

would want to cross examine sbout it. .* ” :

~~.

Mr. U! le i: = . e— . ) ®

’ That is correct. There i is no s dinaiveniinat about that. It

was received for the sole purpose of proving that there

was a survey.

. All right” } Pane rae

Mr: - Underwood: .

Now, if your Honor please, I offer in evidence Exhibit

. 3-Q for ‘identification, which Mr. Hawkins identified as a

copy of the policy of insurance which was taken out fol- .

lowing the survey by Mr. Bernard, and I offer it solely ‘for.

the purpose of proving that the vessel was insured at that

time. There is some. writing up here that I will, not read

- to you, and which I know my friends will object -to, so I-

_ do not offer the typewritten “Seminole Boat’ Company"

over to the left in the top of the document.

Mr. ‘ii : ;

' I gbject to it as incompetent, ‘irrelevant and immaterial. .

I do not think that the fact that this seas was insured

case

. | join in that same objection. I think it is illustrative

of no material issue in this case.

The Court ‘Se | | aie -?

. {t remains marked for identification and ruling on it :s

reserved? Pas \ ¢.

That is correct.

_ Mr. Matteson: _ wats | :

- Mr. Bernard had these pamphiets- and he. agreed -

mit us to have photostats made of them, and I

they be marked for identification, and I would like

gest that two numbers be left openi on the record for then,

- All right; leave two numbers open there for them.

(Thereupon the Hearing was Adjourned to 10:00 A. M..

October 9, '1939.) - te

‘that

sug

. &

‘

es Sie ‘WIRTH MUNROE’ wes called as a

‘witness in behalf of the Respondent Phipps, and

lows:

os py eer ae ©

By Mr. Underwood: oe

*Q. Your name is Wirth Muntoe?

A. Yes, sir. |

Q. | W-i-r-t-h M-u-n-r-o-e?- Peet

A.. Yes. ~ : 7 eh. ;

Q. Where do you live? 6

_ A. In Coconut Grove.

Q. How long have you live in Florida? \

A. All my life. |

Q” What is your business? ._ :

A. IT am a yacht designer and. marine surveyor

Q ncsttge: Ayal cd grniginahacaa bow smeel

A. Since 192% for myself. - |

Q. Set oe hae experience with yachts prior. to

A. Well, my father was a yacht designer and I spent—

of coursé-grew up with him—and worked for him, and —

have been in and around boats ever since I was old.enough

: to handle it myself.

~ Q What work did your father do-that you participated

)

A. Well, he was a designee, and I’ participated in that

with him, what work I could do at that age, and also in re-

pairing. We had a smal! marine railway and did a lot of

- f-

ener |

» Ralis Biet daly, evern, wns qeaguined end Sentifien ox fel- :

aav8

rebuilding and installation of motors on both power and

_ sail, and any kind of yacht repairing“

Q Have you worked or did you work with anyone els

prior to going into business for yourself?

A. Yes I was—what you might calli—an apprentice _

-_.with Mr. N: G. Herreshoff, of Bristol, Rhode Island. He

spent all of his winters here for about eight years around

our place, and we did some of his designing here, and |

_ Was an apprentice to him.

Q. How have you been familiar with power yachts

* and had to pa dinar tS ocotrath eo Seuad

* ” She. ts rel hielo any; anoade Tava Noes with ‘

them all of ‘my life; I don’t know just when I started.” :

Q. mer i ged seo

A. _Well, I So er oe

'And-where has that experience been? .

wae bee in ‘Miami; an ao At hmmtanl gram

teen regulary employed by an as a surveyor”

apie PF ve been on call for two insurance com-

panies, and ee

A-

Q.°. You said something about a surveyor; have

A. I'am.

Q. On what type of boats particularly?

- A. Particularly ‘on auxiliaries where there are gasoline

motors; of course today. we are installing Diesels mostly

Q.. Are. you familiaf with the standards of practice

power vessels in. these waters?

A. I ram. - :

boats; tities tall sin Sa UbeRininas todeapieeting

Q.° Are you familiar with gasoline motor installations

on power boats and auxiliary boats in these waters? :

. and. care-followed in the construction and maintenance of . |

hat

—

-t>

@ You have spoken of being # designer: what type of

boats do you design? —

A. . Primarily auxiliaries and power vessels. fasoline

". driven or Diesel driven.

Q. Does that include vessels that have gasoline, motors

and gasoline tanks? ~~. . |

A. An auxiliary, in. my-term, “fd al vessel that is driven: nS

both by sail ahd power, primarily by sail, but they have

gasoline motors or Diesel motors installed for a

power. |

A. IT. have.

Q. .-Have you supervised: the construction of any such

vessels?

Q. About how many?

_ A. About. seven. ats | , :

Q. Does that ia of gasoline tanks

. ahd: feed lines and electrical equipment?

‘A: That includes everything from the time the keel is

. laid. until the trial trip; everything that goes aboard the

_ boat I have to supervise; I supervise. signee every bolt

and nail which is driven. |

Q. Apart from your experience ° in constructing and

surveying vessels that are propelled by gasoline, have you

bpen ‘sheaed ether vessels propelled by gasoline; if so, in

what ni

A. Yes. I se Regn abun a quash tae) veuiels in this

locality. - I have. made it a business to go aboard as many |

boats as I could, because from these boats I always learn

something that I might use in my own construction later

on; so it is always interesting to see what someone else

does ‘and the manner in which they do it. . I have been

sboard, I would say, couple hundred boats of size, and I.

can’t tell you-how many small boats.

' Q By “boats of size” can you tell us what size you -

mean?.

ye From 40 feet up

_~ -

.Q By “amall boat” you have in mind something smal

ler?

A.. More or less open boats and boat cruisers. *

Q. Since the fire on the Seminole have you examined

‘her? .-

A. Yes. | Create

Q: Have: you fapniliertnel yiaweait with the’ layout. of

» her'motors and her gasoline tanks and feed lines, switch-

- board and so forth?

| A. Ichaye made a very. close survey of her construc-

aN tion; I have been aboard her several times. bet

Q. Did you:observe whether or not it was possible to

drain all the gasoline trom: the tanks through" the feed:

line? =

A. No, it is-not yssible to drain every/bit of the gaso-

line from these tanks.

°Q. What is, your'opinion as to the’ propriety of that

condition? '

A. The simount of gasoline that will remain’ in those.

tanks—and if not gasoline,- -some. fluid in the bottom. there.

—-would amount to a yery small amount. I-figure in the |

entire four tanks about sixteén’ ‘Ballons~"We very seldom— —

practically never today—put a draw-off ‘at the bottom of

‘a tank. That is put thefe for preventing any refuse or any

small amount of water that is condensed from getting

into oyr feed line. -In ‘these, particular tanks any small ”

amount of water in the bottom of them would lay in that

'V section around the edge and form a seal against anv

gasoline going through there. Gasoline being lighter than

water, naturally it, Will float on the surface of the water.

Q. In. your opinion were these tanks so constructed

#§ to be a proper installation for a vessel of that class?

I would say that they were quite proper. . .

Have you calculated) ae capacity of — —

Yes; six, .~

—— did your. calculation result in?

‘p rer

A Bech tank contained 491.10 ‘gallons. ihe ‘nay very

-a little bit, but it is very close. The tanks are 42 inches in

diameter and they are practically seven feet “in height.

_ Of course ‘there is no seven Tee capacity there.

Q:, In reaching that figure have you made proper al-

lowance for the concave shape of the bottom?

A. I have, and also for the set-in of the bottoms, where

it is set-in "the side.

: Did you observe the ‘comparative size of the ‘filling

- line and ‘the vent line? .

A. The filling line was a two-inch. pipe: the vent was

> half inch pipe. attiae

Q.:

- What is the purpose of the vent? -

A: Sin venik Oh tr ene AGE Wk Wis Shen the Meats as the

| - fuel is put in. It is also to prevent any sealing when the

fuel runs in, and the air naturally has to ‘come back into

the tank: as the fluid runs out.

‘Q. Is there any reason why the filling pipe should not.

eed times as large. as the vent pipe?

A. . Yes. The filler pipe naturally has to be large to°

accommodate the fléw of fuel or liquid as it goes into the

‘ tank, to prevent any flowing back or any dripping in the

line; and -especially over the*filler pipe; and: the vent

‘ doesn’t necessarily have to be as large as.the filler pipe

because there is only air passing out of the vent line.

7 Q.. Assuming that you are fillipg the, fanks with a full,

Stream of gasoline through the ‘filling line, is there any .

_Teason why half-inch vent line cannot discharge’ the *

air as fastas the gasoline comes in?

». A. Air can be compressed and: will naturally pass

through a smaller pipe at the same rate that fluid -will

run down a two-inch pipe. There- ‘is. another. reason for

_ haying a small vent.

Q. What is that?

ow That is that when a-tank is partly full it Si

what we say—breathe, «due to. the change ‘in pressure. in

the outside of the vessel or the eettireies in. temperature

Teen

2280

‘between: day-time and night-time. ‘The air is forced inor

_ sucked back through this vent, and by keeping it as small ;

‘as possible it prevents any heavy air or moisture-laden

air from being sucked back into the tanks at night and -

pera on. the inside of the tank and getting water

with your gasoline. . .

Q.- Do you mean to say that the ‘smaller the vent. the

less condensation?

A.- The less chance of getting condensation in the’ tank.

. ‘Q. In your--opinion was this installation proper inso-

' far'as the sive. of the filling pipe 2 and the vent pipe .were

concerned? Peeks

A. Yes, Sir; . it was perfectly proper. |

Q. Did you observe any arip pans under the gasoline

tanks” .

A, Yes; fees are drip pans under all four tanks.

Q: Will. you describe how many pase there were and ;

_ their general characteristics?

| A. There are two pans “under. ‘the Mine tanks. there 1s

are two tanks in each pan. |

Q. What are the pans made of?

A. The pans are made of iron sheet steel, the, exact

' thickness I don't know, but it is about three-sixteenths,

#1 believe,. or at least ‘that weight. They are about four

iriches deep and naturally the width, of the tanks; they |

are square on the upper or outer ends of the bompart-

ment, and they have a round end in the center; in other

words, thé number one and number two ‘tanks pre sitting

in one pan and number three and nurhber aie tanks are -

sitting in another pan..

_ Q.- Numbering ther: from the port—- | j

A. . Numbering from the port side. f :

Q. In your opinion were they of rope design . and ~

- properly installed? —.”

_ A. They’ were quite, deaial in —— ad they | were

, properly —

- - 2281

Es 4

ee Have you. bein: able to ascertain otal. or not

these pans had an overboard discharge?

A. No, I: haven't been able to determine where the

drain went to. There were drains in both pans but the

pipes leading from that vent were destroyed. due to the.

fire and wrecking, and I cannot determine Where os

f went to.

— Q. What did you ‘see of the pans that causes you to ‘say

that there was. something; leading from them?

A. There is a pipe connection with a piece of broken -

“pipe in it, or was in the rounded end of each Suaits

_ Q. That. is the inverted—

“ale That would be near the center. .

‘Q. The inverted end “of each tank?

ik Yes.

Q. Where were these fittings with respect to the square ee

opening in’ the engineroom bulkhead?

A. ‘They were directly behind that square “opening.

‘Q. From your -examination could you ascertain what

was attached to these openings prior to the fire?

A. You mean the openings in the pans?

Q. Yes.: i“.

A. No, I couldn't say, except that there ‘wasta pipe . -

screwed into it. - |

-. Q. Were overboard. drains in your opinion necessary

from these pans? . |

A. Well, as long as there was no leak in the tanks there

was no necessity for any drain to drain off any condensa- ° :

tion or water that might possibly comé from the outside

of the tanks, gasoline -having a tendency to keep the tanks

cooler than the atmosphere at times.

- + Q. Did you observe how the, tanks themselves were _

‘secured or held in place in the tank ‘compartment? 3

-- A. Yes. These tanks sat-on a framework: of four by’

- fours in the pans:. There is a four by four going all the

way around the outside edge of the pans, fitting snug into

it, dnd there | is‘a center-piece running en or the

—_

2282

length of. the pan.or the length of the pans, running all

through the ‘middle, and in this was cut a groove fo:

’ the lower edge’ or bottom edge of the tank to sit in.

Q. How deep was the groove? .

- . A. Oh, about half an- inch. e

Q. How did the groove conform in shape to the tanks?

‘A. -Well, it is circular, so that the entire. lower edge

of the ta set right: into the groove. Of course this

framework Wasn't circular so - aes the groove ran across~

the four by fours.

Q. You mean the tank at ‘on. a square base and is

groove was only made in that part of the square. base

where the bottom of te tank came in contact; is that

right? : |

A. ‘That:is what I am trying. ‘to imply.

Q. How. about any other, supports that you observed?

A. Theré were vertical ‘supports between ‘the tanks;

there were three of them, with a spreader running fore and

aft, which was notched out to fit the size of the tank; ‘the

' lower. spreader is about one foot above the pan and the

upper one—I can only assume—was maybe a foot below.

the top, but that upper one has fallen down, -and it was

.badly: chaired, so’ I. couldn’t ‘examine it; it was badly

charred and had fallen down on the lower one. ;

“Q. Have you had some photographs made to show the

conditions of which you have been speaking? :

A. Yes, I had some photographs made.

- Q. You went there with the photographer?,

A. Yes.

Q. That was last May?

| . A. 1 believe it was at the last session; ‘yes, it was in

“May.

Q. Now! show you a » photcer ph and ask you whether ‘*

' or. not that is one that was taken of the Seminole tank

compartment; or a portion of it, at that time? —

A.. Yes, that is a photograph which I had the photo

grapher make of the port end of the tank com \artment.

2283

Q: Will you describe to us from whit point it was taken

‘and in general orient us so we can understand it?

' A. That photograph was. taken looking directly down

into the compartment. .

Q. And what is this white substance at the bottom of

the photograph? : a

A. That isa part of number one tank; that is ie side

of-number one ‘tank. ~

= ‘Just mark on there “number one tank”. ey

(Witness complies.)

- Now what: bulkhead is this on the. right ‘illite the

rivets appear?

A. That is the forward bulkhéad of the tank compart- a

ment..

Q. Will you please write ¢ on there “forward bulkhead”? .

A, (Witness complies. ) ° :

- /Q. Then what is this bulkhead at the - of the photo- -

- graph?

. A. That is the port side of the veabel.

Q. Will you, please write “port ‘side” on that?

A. (Witness complies:) |

_ Q. Then this, of course, at the left margin of the pheto-

graph is the bulkhead between the’ tank compartrhent and

the’ engineroom?

A. Yes. ,

Q. This we see at the bottom is the bottom of the tank's

_ compartment?

. A’ That is the bottom of the tank compartment. There

was still water there; it. wasn’t a out at the time

this photograph was taken.

Q. So there is water at the central portion of the photo- ;

“graph? »

A. Yes.

Q. . Now I call your attention to Seieiits a beam of

. some kind; will you tell us what that is? -

A. This. beam running through the lower center eat

of the photograph is the framework inside of the Pan on -

. which - number one tank sat.

- between the beam that you have marked and the number

one tank?

2284

Q. Will you write the word “beam” on there, please?

A. (Witness cornplies.)

Q. Now what is this article that is in the photograph

below the beam and actually to starboard of the beam,

. A. That is a center veleaee that runs athwartships .

bs through the middle of the pan.

Q. That is also a beam?

A. Yes. :

Q. . Will you write the word “beam” on that?

A. (Witness complies.)

- Q.. You have spoken of a groove in which the tank ae:

Can you indicate that on the photograph?. — ah

’ As Yes. -You can see it finely outlined in there (point-

ing); this is the outside of the groove (pointing), and there

(pointing) is the inside of = ervove. This was all full

of ash and, stuff.

Q.‘ Suppose you draw an arrow at one end of the groove -

and at the end of the arrow, mark the word — :

(Witness complies. )

Mr. alee

_ I offer this in Svante.

Mr. Matteson:

No objection.

The Court:

It will be admitted.

_ (Thereupon the photograph dons: adonead to was

marked eapondent Phipps’ Exhibit. 5-J.)

(By Mr. Underwood):

Q. I show you another photograph. Was that sien

taken of the general part of the tank compartment, with

the camera pointing approximately. straight down? .

2285

A.» This was taken in practically the same position as

' the other one, of the same part-of the vessel. 7 ~S

Q. This is the ——— one tank? a a ee See

A. Yes,

Q.'.Is this the snvind bulkhead?

A. That is the forward bulkhead et the right- hand -

end of the photograph.

Q. Does the groove appear also? .

- A. That groove here is very pronounced, heconsn I had »

it cleaned ‘out; it is shown there coming ‘clear eround

under the forward ‘side of the pan. /.

Q. Wil: you fast-Geaw a Haw wih 6 poh alt -the ‘wey

“ through the groove, starting over here at the cn and

then going to the left, and then mark it “groove

eS: (Witness. complies.)

Mr. Underwood:

T offer wacene

The Court: aie

Let it. be in. ae

ARE See

Sesh

a, en ‘the ahaha whens referred .to was

marked Respondent Phipps’ Exhibit 5-K.)

- (By. Mr. Underwood):

~~ Q. I ‘show you still another plistageeh. Was that

. taken at thesame time? | ay

A. Yes, this. —— was taken at the same time as

the others. .

_ Q. Will you | tell us where or about what partion af the

boat? : :

A. This i of the tank scmeiaeil sion an space

between the number one and number two. tanks and the

after bulkt ie eer

_ 2286

Q. And this bulkhead which aaptecs inthe GOK ee

_ liand corner of the photograph i is the bulkhead: between the —

tanks and the ager seE

A. Yes. : :

Q. You have ‘spoken of wooden members. Do you see

any in that photograph? — . :

_A. This. here in the center, running diagonally | across

the .photograph, is the, remain’ of one of the upright

columns. .

-Q: Was that upright in “the ‘Seminole?

A. , Yes.

Q. - LT will draw an arrow to it and mark it—what is the

proper natne for it? |

A. It is a stanchion.” You-can. also see in this photo-

graph the remains of the lower piece or spreader that

_ went between. these two stanchions running fore and aft —

between the two tanks, to separate the tanks. —

Q. As that installation was made, will you tell 1 me

“whether or not number one tank and number two tank

were both in contact with that Lee that you call the

spreader?

A. Both number one and number two tanks were -

touching that. ae

' * Q. Was that spreader shaped in any way ‘to conform

to the tank shape? :

A. Yes. )

. Q.-I will draw an arrow to that under which. you have

_ indicated as a spreader and write on it “spreader”.

AL All right. :

Mr. Underwood: —_— :

I offer. that photograph in. ev ‘idence.

~ Mr. Miikenie:

No objection.

<0 Cee.

It will .be admitted. aw

2287 ee

3 (Thereupin:. the photograph above referred to was

marked pone Phipps’. Exhibit .5-L.) —

"Q. Now, bearing in mind that. construction, Mr. .Mun-

roe, in yaar opinion 1_ were these tanks properly - and :

A. sie were perfectly secure. I basic of no better -

_ way of holding them in’ there: ‘These stanchions or up- |

: rights were fastened to the base that sat in the:pan and

the tanks were entirely tied together, so they couldn't

upast without all of them upsetting.

‘ Q In your opinion could they move at all with the ~

_ normal vibration-of such a vessel? +

; A. No. The tanks had a very large base’ and the lower

_end of ‘the tank. was set in a groove, and. they couldn't.

shift, so there would be no vibration at all. These tanks .

could have very easily sat there without any vibration

whatsoever, swith the amount of offshore work: ‘that. she

did. as .

a) ‘Was there any ‘eans of ectets fora man into the

tank compartment that you could observe?

. A. - No; only by removing. the center plate in that bulk-

head between the compartment and the engine room.

Q.. Do you know what type of construction was above

\. the tank compartment prior to the fire?

* A. I haven't any way of telling what was above the

tank construction. There might have been hatches above

there, and there may have been space where a man could

have gotten in. |

Q.. Is there any way of positively telling now?”

A. There is no way of telling now what form of con--

struction was over the top of these tanks. .

Q. Assuming that a man could not get into that tank

compartment to inspect these tanks without taking out

that plate with force, in. that part of the engineroom bulk-

~ head, tell us whether or not in your opinion that was a

proper construction.

. x rns

: abs we ae

- 7

. .

4 : «

. “

A. . That was a proper construction. _ Sh

“@ Was there any need for access to the tank compart.

ment to test the tanks?

ne No, because these tanks could have been tested in .

other ways without having to see the actual tanks them-

selves.

Q. How, for example, cowld you test these tanks with-

out getting into the compartment?

A. “You can put a hydrostatic test on them.

Q.- How laborious or troublesome a. job would be?

A. No job at all, All you have got to do is to put a

riser on the'filler pipe and plug the vent pipe; put a riser

on both of them and fill this‘riser. The riser can be the.

height of whichever test you want to put on, according .

to the maximum pressure that you want to put on. — .

Q. Would such a test be an adequate test?

A. Yes. ;

Se ls it custemaitly or trequndliy weed? ren

Q. Could you tell by such test whether a tank leaked

ee ee Sees

The Court: | , .

‘What is a riser?

The Witness:

A vertical Pipe.

. (By Mr. Underwood):

Q. By putting a riser on the filling pipe you. bine in...

mind anotner piete of pipe. connecting to that and going

. up-straight in the air? -

_ A. Yes. That riser would give added pressure to the

bottoms of. the tanks, whatever distance you. want it. You

can get any pressure at the bottom of your tank-that you

desire by merely: increasing the height of the pipe, and

you cou! ld determine just what factor of safety you want

. 2289 «

to use. .You know what. the normal pressure would be on * ~

the tank without any riser, and with a riser you can either

’ double or triple ‘at distance from the top of the tank to

the bottom; you « wuld either double or triple the pressure. .

Q. Have you calculated the pressure ‘at the bottoms of

these tanks, assuming that they are filled with gasoline? _—

A. Yes, sit. The normal pressure at the bottom of.

‘these tanks filled with gasoline would be 2. 22 pounds per.

square inch.’ He

- Q. Assuming that they were filled with, water, what —

would the pressure be? .

Approximately three and one-half pounds.

Q. -Whatis-the-formula for calculating pounds of

pressure per square inch; with water, first? ~ .

A. We used half pound to the foot of rise, or depth...

_ Q. In other. words, a vessel filled with water a foot

high will have a pressure at the bottom of one-half a pound

to the square inch?

' A. Yes. oe

Q. And a vessel filled with water two feet high will

have one pound?

A. Yes.

Q. And so on?

A. Yes.

. Q. The pressure at, the bottom varies : apvuniiiog to the—

A. ‘The pressure on, the bottom varies according to the

density of the liquid Contained in the tank. If you_ put.

mercury in there you would have a great deal more pres-

sure on the bottom than would be the case with gasoline.

Q. These tanks were seven feet high? .— ‘

_ A. Yes, ‘and forty-two..inches in diameter. _

_ Q. In order to subject them to a hydrostatic test, giv-

ing them twice the pressure at the bottom of the tanks as

they would normally have when full, how high a riser

would you have to have?

A. Another seven feet.

Q. By adding seven feet—

2290

A. Wain nie Min eehnienh Ute Wattom id the tank,

irrespective of the diemeter of the. pipe. ES

* @ Just so that we may have some idea of this 2.22 :

pounds per square inch pressufe, can you tell us what”

the ordinary pressure on: gueden Kose in Miami is op-

proximately? :

Mr. Botts:

I object to that—_

A. ‘In other words, from 40 to 50 pounds.

-Mr. Botts:

“I dont think that is material, if your Honor please

{am frank to state that I do not know whether itis ot

not at this time. eae °

Mr. iti sees)

I don’t know how the witness could ‘know untess— \

The Court:

I. will let it remain and will determine later whether I.

should strike it. , Sf -

(By Mr. Urderwood):

Q. Did you ghaarve the ‘concave and convex ends of.

these tanks? _ . é

eS Sr een

Which is properly the bottom of such a tank?

The concaved end. fe

In these tanks was the concave end up or down?

‘Down. :

Why is that .Properly the \bottom of such 3 a tank?

Because a grooved surface as that. was, with.a hea:

on it towards the’ pressure, is ‘the strongest form of sup-

port, the same as a bps

POperorTy

2291

Q, Shan thin atabilting at theta flac olka a ‘port

ot Ge GRC CEG We ceo He Oe

~ bottom?

A. Yes. Sin eeubdirt Seek Walk oak & eee ead of

the tank down and expect the tank to stay there with-

"out considerably more bracing. With a convex end you

have a rim, which is square and forms a perfect brace: .

' Q. You said, “convex end down"; did 7 mean con-

vex or concave? :

A. Concave ead gown.

Mr. Matteson: .\" ,

I don't think his testimony: is arey te din that.

| ate Ween \ | | ;

ee I am just a little bit mixed up in the use of these

two words, ~ 1 know the <.fference, but it is hard -to put .

the right one in the right place. - It depends on whether —

you are looking on the ‘inside or the outside of the- tank :

too. ‘You tight wee the words “ends of the tank”, 1 sup-

‘ia. As the tanks were installed the bottom was the

concave end?

A. That is gmt.” : a

~Q. Fe ae Ss ta ak ad a Wye i

Libelants’ witnesses. Now. with the concave end down it -

is quite obvious that you have a flat bottom? = -

A. You have a rim;/a rim that is perfectly square, and

. You could set it on most any flat surface and it would set

upright without any support whatsoever. ?

S Q. Have you ever seen in any boat a gasoline tank of

"that type installed with the other end up?

A. T never have; I have seen them’ on their sides too,

\ but I have, never seen them with the convex end “down.

L- \Q Did you observe the rivets at the. bottoms of these

' ' tanks? Fr

ae "

* a

Ldid. | ;

Can you tell me whether or not they were welded?

They are apparently not welded. ..

Can you tell me whether-or not they were soldered?

POrea>

from what little bit you ean see—there were places all

ey ee ee ee

still visible. : ae

Q. Where? | : 2

A. On the seams and around the. rivets of the side

seams. -

-Q. Vertical geams?

A. Vertical ‘seams.

Q. What would be the effect of fire on the solder?

' A. Fire would melt: the solder; solder has a very low

melting point. —

Q: How do you account: for the fact that you found.

solder around the bottom seams and not: towards the \UP>

per end of the vertical seams? . .

A. There was ash and stuff around the bottom of the .

tank. for approximately 20. inches. to two feet, and..the.

solder wasn’t melted in’ that section, and up above the ~

heat got to it and the solder was bygnsd a and rar’

down.

_ Q.- As you examined these tanks, will you tell us

whether the rivets in the bottom were soldered? —— .

A. The-rivets in the bottom seam showed an indication |

on the inside of being soldered, that is; inside of the bot-

tom rim.

Q. How sbout the rivets on’ the outside of the bottom:

could. you tell? .

A. There were ‘small Bleces. of solder theres some of it

has flaked off with rust. When. I first examined the tank

it was quite plain.

Q. Im your opinion are the- rivets soldered ‘on the out-

side of the bottom? .

A. Yes.

Around ‘the bottom they /were soldered. I assume _

a. =

2293

Q. ‘How about the vertical seams? : [

- ‘They were soldered’ too. Sit eenaun;. tn f -digteinial,

most of that solder on the outside of the tank has been

flaked off by. rust, but when that tank was first removed

there was no flaking and there was still signs of the origin-

al paint; there were still signs of the red lead paint around

_ then the tank has flaked and the “air” has removed any

* @ hb your ssaaeienal was hasan: panaeaaty on _:

tanks? - i,

"A. Not necessary for. Gat wie

Q. "What is thé purpose of welding?

A. For strength. | : ae

Q. ‘in your qpinion were these tanks’ strong endugh tor

their purposes, -bearing in mind oe pressures mre, e

without welding?

A, Tite abd. piney Sines ened doe thn. ue’ Viet

they were used for, put to; they were strong enough for a

great deal higher pressures than ever applied to them.

* Q. As a matter of fact, was — necessary in your

Opinion for tightness? —

A.: It wasn’t necessary, - abishately necessary, but .it

‘was a good safety factor; it eliminated any posstile enenes .

‘in future of any leaking ‘in the tank. . o

. «° Q Did you observe the relation between the bottom

= edges of the cylindrical sides of the tanks and the bottom .,

edges of the bottom of the ‘tanks? a

A. Yes. See ee Ge Se Ss ee pyepeee Cowes.

below or beyond a flange at the bottom:

Q. By about how much?

A. I would say, roughly one-eighth to three-sixteenths...

Q. That left approximatély a rectangular space?

A. That left a’ small space in between the . two, so_

that the two didn’t come flush.

Q. Was that ‘space filled with anything?

Me es ee 2294

me” se That space was filled entirely ‘with solder; there.

_were.a few places that were not quite filled; there was

some solder that a have come on sorepianin: the fire or *

3 SRB He ert -

- Q. In your opinion was ia space ‘filled with solde:

_ prior fo the time of the fire? noe

A. It was. .

ieee Q.: In your. opinion was it necessary to caulk the seams .

"of these tanks? :

A. Well, it is customary in the building of such. tanks .

- . ° to caulk them if they are going to be put under any pres-.

; sure, but if they were soldered afterwards and they knew

a -they were going to be soldered or ‘going to be galvanized

tal a afterwards, there was no absolutely necessity of caulking.

: "+ Q: What is the purpose of caulking; tightness?

A. To make the seams tight.

-Q. How far apart. were these rivets?

A. These rivets all over the tank, both the vertical

seams and: the bottom, were practically. one inch apart;

one inch, to one and one-sixteenth of an inch. :

Q. Approximately what was the diameter of the Tivet

hole?

A. That is pretty hard to tell. I assume that it-was ap-

.proximnately half inch or a: little less. “They ‘normally

_ would be between rey of an inch to > half an inch

rivets.

-Q. In other words; in your opinion is 5 that — ig

3 ing for rivets for tanks of that type?

eo That is plenty close enough fora ‘tank of that ive.

Q. In your opinion would riveting at that distance

A. I see no reason ice it should not; rT believe it

would. | Ge

: Q: Considering of course the —— habia and

~ tanks of that siz6?.. _

A. The pressure is so little in tanks of that size, tanks -

Seeks that usé.; _& ,

2295 .

Q. As to their strength, were the tanks proper in your

a eg See,

“A. They. were quite proper; more than proper “and

‘more than necessary.

Q. What can you say about the: cylindrical shape of.

the tanks as bearing upon their strength? .

' A. A cylindrical object is about the strongest form of

tank you can make; a sphere would be stronger, and next

to that is the cylindrical tank. .

What is the thickness of the material?

Approximately three-sixteenths of an inch. .

And what material is it?

Steel. pent,

Was it galvanized? ;

It was originally galvanized steel.

. In your opinion is that a proper type of material ind

roles Wbbauaah of material for tanks to be used for gaso-

line in’ such a vessel? -

A. In my experience that is plenty sufficient, quite suf-.

ficient. |

Q. Did you observe that the bottom seams of these’

. tanks were singly riveted?

_4AS They were singly riveted.

Q. Have you ever seen S uch a tank for gasoline double °

riveted at the bottom seam? _ 3

A. Never; I have never seen a gasoline tank ‘or water

tank double riveted. .

Q. What_is the purpose of double riveting? .

A. Double riveting is applied where extreme pressure

are going to be used on a tank...

_Q. Is double riveting for strength or tightness?

A. Double riveting is put in to - more shearing, rivet

shearing surface.

Q. -Is that another way: of saying it is for stength?.

_A. It is for strength, yes.

Q. In your opinion was any additional strength neces-

gary ‘for ;such. tanks with such pressures?

° °

QP OPO>oO

2296

A, There was no need for any additional strengthen

ing.

'Q. Could you tell whether the. rivet. holes. were punched

or drilled? .

A. That I could not do; it doesn’t matter. A rivet hole

_ that is punched and then reamed ig just as’ goodas 2

* drilled hole. We specify in punching\holes that they be~

punched smaller than the diameter of the rivet and ther:

reamed; also reduced to remove any distorted material in

‘punching. Either a drilled or punched note could be

uneven, in pitch or in alignment. —

-. Q. Can you tell anything about the way’ these rivets

line ue or don’t line. up, ‘whether they were conceal or

drill

A. No. As I just stated, hee: a drilled or ‘ile

- hole could be out of line.

Q., Considering the ‘small pressures involved in these :

- tanks, in your opinion doés it make any difference wheth-

er the rivet holes were punched and reamed or drilled? .

A. No, it doesn’ t_make any difference in a tank of that

kind.

i: Now as to the size of the tanks, what can you say

_ about the propriety of having tanks’ of that size? |

A. For 4 vessel of her size a five hundred gallon tank— _

we will cali it five hundred—is-not too large in ny estima- :

tion. 2

Q. You have already expressed the opinion, Lagtieve

that they were amply strong for this use?

Yes, they were amply strong.

Have you made ad test of one of these tanks?

I have.

Which tank was it? -

Number 4. Bae a

When did you make ‘it? é *

_ I made it the later part of May. 3

Where was the tank when you tested it?

DPrOPrOProy

+ 2297

‘

A. The tank was removed from the compartment by a

‘derrick.

Q. Were you there?

: A. I was there.

. Q. Was it done under your supervision?

A. It was.

Q. Where was it place .

A. The tank was taken out and meue on a derrick

barge.

Q. What did it rest on?

A. I had the tank set on two four by fours for the pur-

_ pose of getting the bottom/edge up above the deck of the

barge so that the inspection could be made of the bottom

while the test was being made. - Da aa

*Q. Did the tank stand upright?

“A. Yes, on its own bottom without any bracing. .

- Q. Then what did you: do? is

A. I proceeded to put.a water connection, hose: con-

nection, in the drain-off, which is in the bottom of the

tank, or the bottom of the seat.— Bane

Q. You mean at the place. where the feed line came

out of the tank? -

A Xe...

- Q. ‘What did you put there?.

A. I put a hose connection there, screwed a : hpse con- -

nection into that bushing that was already. there, and |

then in the filler hole at the top I inserted a pipe plug

‘it the two-inch opening. I screwed a pipe plug into that .

and connected the hose from the city line pressure to the

tank and proceeded to fill it with water.

Q. How did you fill it with water?

A. The tank was filled up to the very: top; I had j it

filled so that the water was just even with the vent hole

‘. in the top. I watched that while the thing was being

filled; to see that the tank was absolutely full. —

- -Q. When you filled it- with water, what did you do? ~

2298

A. While this tank. was full of water at that level |

thoroughly examined the bottom edge, the side seams and

underneath it, using a flashlight—by using, a flashlight

I could get’ around all sides of it. I also’ rapped the sides

_ of the tank with-a hammer to: jar any possible corrosion

. loose; in, other words, I tried “" very best to make it leak,

but it-did not leak.

Q. Did you find ‘any leaks?

only two leaks..

fi were they? — :

’ A. One was in - cast iron bushing in the dvain on the

Q. Where \the: feed line: ville was? ;

that crack was put in there when: we

screwed in. “th bushing.

Q. How do you know that?

A. Because as I screwed the thing in I heard it: crack.

Q. Who was screwing it in?

A. My ‘helper. .

Q. Where were you? > 4 Saat

A... I was standing right atin of ‘him, watching him

to see exactly what.he did, and I heard the thing crack

when he tightened up on the fitting; and the other leak

- was.in the plug that was applied to the filler hole in the |

“upper end of the tank, and that was due to the rusty

condition of the threads. e

~ Q. Could you get a tight fitting in? - ae

A. No, we couldn’t without using some shellac, which.

we,didn’t have at the time. We didn’t bother with it be-

cause we knew we could check that.

Q. Did you find tf leaks in any seams or at any rivets

anywhaee? ; |

- A. There were na leaks winteoeles in shes dhe ‘seam or ant

rivet in that part. of that tank.

‘ Q: Then what -did you do after that?

A. After testing it with a normal: supply or quantity of

water ‘in it, I. screwed in .a -half- inch length—a ten-foot

Bae

2299

length of. half-inch pipe—screwed that into the vent hole

in the very center of the’ top, Sieinl end, and then filled

this to-the top with water.

Q. , Did you find any leaks? Se

A. At this point there were still'no leaks. I went over

it the same as I did in the first place; I used a hammer

- and checked every seam. and every. rivet and there call

still no leaks.

* Q. About what pressure was there at ‘the bottoms of

these tanks with that ten-foot riser coming above the vem. |

: filled with water?

_| A. That ten-foot riser would give you: eight and one-

7 half pounds.

' Q. At’the .bottoms -of the tanks?

Bem Hae.

Q. After that. riser test, what did you do?

A. After that test I removed the riser ‘and inserted a

. half-inch plug in place of it, so that there was no air in -

the tank whatsoever. The water was right about flush

with the very outside tank, and in this hole I inserted 3

half-inch pipe plug and ° — I turned on the » complete

city pressure.

Q. Approximately om was that?

A. The-city pressure out Gass is epprecinately 45 to

50 pounds. 3

Q. Did you find’s any leaks?

-A. -I went over the tank in the same manner as before’

and there were still no leaks. After that I got up on top of

the tank and exerted considerable pressure with my heels,

practically kicked the tank with both heels which Li .

the same effect as a hydraulic ram.

_ Q. And you jumped on top of the tank ak :

. As I did more-than jumped; as I came down : kicked

* with both heels. eh

Q. What effect, if any, did that have on the tank?

A: The effect: was the same as a hydraulic ram.

Q. .After that did you find any leaks?

"2300

A. I then examined the entire tank and I could still.

find no leaks, but one-half of the tank had been bulged

due to that excessive pressure.

Q. Before you made that test was the concave shape.

of the bottom of the tank -a fair curve or not?

A. Yes.‘

Q. After ‘you juinped: on the: aac what did ~~ find

had. happened to the bottom?

A. That half ‘of the bottom of the tank was bulged out.

Q. Did you .examine the ‘rivets and seams thereafier

‘to see if they leaked then? ~

A. I-examined every part of that ‘tank, including the

seams and the rivets, and I could find absolutely no evi-

.. dence of a leak in that tank anywhere. a

Q. Excepting of- course the. two leaks that you have

already mentioned? -

A. Yes, which ‘I ‘ecsuan knew about before I even |

Started.

Q. You say that the one near the feed line ouitlet was -

in the bushing?

A. That was a ‘reducer bushing. Seu see, the hole

in the tank had a two-inch fitting which was put. in there

when the tank was originally built, and that was ‘reduced.

I believe, to three-quarters. The hole was two inches

but it had a three-quarter inch reducing bushing on it;

it was made of cast iron.

° <7

Q. You said something about hearing that crack when

it was being set up.

A. As we sezewed the new , fitting, or this. hose con-

nection into the bushing; that pipe threading is not tapered -

‘ down, and if’you exert enough pressure in turning these

_ things up, you can split one of these cast iron bushings.

Q. Did yeu observe whether or not that is what. hap-

‘pened?

A. That i is exactiy: what: happened; because when they.

2301

we know and knew at that. time, that we had to, set the

, thing up. much tighter than we ww would have.

Q: For what reason? : “

A. . Because of the improper threads that Were:in there. >

_ due to rust. —

- Q. What do you mean an by “improper?” threads”? > oases

A. ‘The threads having been used for some time,.the |

threads were naturally pitted and rusted, and they 7

wouldn’t make as perfect a ‘connection as a new, fitting = = -~__

-*Q.> Is that the same, condition--that. ™ found at the - 3

" filler line opening iri the tank?

A. Yes. That was exposed ever since the fire, and.

that was even.in worse shape before the— . ~

Q. Have you examined this valve on exhibit at:

A. . Yes, I have seen that several times. . .

Q. .Will you tell-us whether or not that. valve ‘is a

proper type of valve for such an. installation? | |

A.. That is: a perfectly proper type of valve; it is a

7 standard Globe: vaive. ;

Q. \Can you tell whether or not that valve is tight néw?

A, That valve is tight at the present time.

Q. How do you tell? —

A. By trying to suck through it.

-Q. Have you done that?

_ A. IT have. ;

Q. Have you been able to cai anything through it?

-A: No, sir. | aE

.Q.- What. does that indicate ta you? — . SAD

- It indicates that the plug and the seat ‘in here ‘(in-

dicating) are still in usable condition. | ;

Q. Tight even today?

A. Tight even today.

Q. Now there has been some suggestion of an expan-

sion of the union on: this fitting; are you able to detect

_ any expansion of that union?

A. That’ is pretty hard to say. I could lt as sini of

calipers on it, but even at that it. would not be correct,

”

2302

because this: fitting has been cut; it shows teeth marks of"

a Stilson wrench on it, which would naturally increase

- the diameter and it would bhve @ tendency to swell the

outside. _

— Q. Now assume that it has been expanded; can you

tell whether or not it was tight? —

A. I could tell if I could get it apart; you can tell

whether the thread is tight, whether the pipe is all the way

ip to the shoulder on the inside.

Q.: Now there. are two parts to that, a male part and ;

a female part; is that. correct? .

_. A. That is right. This is the end here eed this -

-is the female end here. You sée, is no shoulder on

_ the inside of that at all. You can. see in this end of it

_ here, the female end; you can.see the threads on the in-

. side of the fitting, indicating that all of ‘the. threads were

_ not used up in setting up the pipe. :

Q. What does that indicate?

& It is possible to set this thing'up further and natur-

ally make it tight. The same thing applies to this one .

* on the male erid, but not as much as on this other one.

Q. Are these tapered threads or not? %

A. All pipe threads are tapered slightly; it is done for.

the purpose of making a tight joint; as you screw the. .

thing in its naturally increases in diameter and forces the

pipe against the other threads.

Q. Does that have a widening effect?

, A: Yes, and that could in time have a ey to

spread these (indicating). ~

Q. What is indicated to you by the fact that the. nial

end is not all the way up to the shoulder of- the female?

_ A. That the pipe was tight; that the joint was tight, ,

that all above the threads was entirely used up. ;

Q. Im your opinion was that a tight Joint on the Sem-

inole before the fire? . °

. A.A perfectly tight joint, if it was made up in that

_ manner; if it was made up in that manner, naturally z..

was tight. . eos

2303

Q. You have ‘seen Libelant’s Exhibit 11, these two

valves, which we call drain valves or draw-off valves—

you have these and examined _, have you: not?

_ A. Yes, sir. ;

. @ Ths pein ‘wndabeteaned What: dere ‘wan’ @ thash trem the

feed manifold. that led athwartships and ended up in

these two valves which were sometimes used for drawing

off gasoline from tanks into a. can?

' A. Yes; that is- what I paurmeenn from testimony given

here.

Q.. From your experience with vessels in these weteek te

will you tell.me whether or not that is a proper condition

on such a vessel as this?

A. It is very common; i tp sohlp basins puialinins

’ boats.of her type; it is quite proper; it is a necessary part

of the vessel.

Q. tos Bice ceer-ctechs tice ak Botta vias bo

~in the engine-room rather than some place ejse?

__A. Well, the drawing off of any quantity of gasoline

should be naturally under the supervision of the engineer,

_ who is the man who is experienced in the handling of |

gasoline, and it should be his. duty to know how much —

gasoline has been removed from his main tanks or from

any other tanks on the vessel, so that it would naturally

be a prudent place to put it in‘ the engineroom where he

‘had supervision of it. Also, in that type of vessel it was _

necessary to prime your miotor with raw ‘gasoline, and the

best place to get that raw gasoline was from some place - -

. in the engineroom

Q. Are there other considerations besides thie fire

' hazard that must be taken into account in. determining

such matters? -

A. Certainly, yes.

Q. Tell us about that; what are aa

A. As I explained, this “motor had to be primed: to

start: even when it was hot it had to be primed.

: e

Mr. Matteson:

If the Court please, I abject to this because this witness,

as I understand it, has never had any experience with the

engines of the Seminole, in attempting to operate them.

He cannot possibly speak of his own knowledge. with re-

spect to them; he.is only drawing some . conclusions here,

ae I move to strike them out.

The Court: =

Well, it is an assumption on his part. I think that the |

testimony ought, to be withheld until he is qualified. _

(By ‘Mr. Underwood):

Q. On what, Mr. Munroe, ‘dn aoe tee ee ent

that these engines had- to be primed even-when hot? —

A. Because of the experience that I have had with—

not necessarily a Winton motor—but with motors of that

same period and— . | :

Q.. Same size and type, you meant

A:. Not necessarily the, horsepower, but motors

of nearly the same size ‘but of different makes, 20th

Century and the old Buffalo— |

Q At that time was it customary to have chokes on

’ motors?

A. When that motor was built of that size they didn't

“ use a choke. |

Q. Do. they use chokes on matete of that size ‘today?

A. No.

Q. In your opinion, from your experience, was it neces-

sary to prime that motor to start it even when it was hot? .

Mr. Matteson:

L object to that, if your” Honor please: I don’t think the

witness is qualified to speak with respect .to ad motors

of the Seminole under the. circumstances.

‘ .

. \

a a4 3\ ‘

° ‘ 8 -

: . : .

The Court: ‘ Ri

may cross examine on this.

“(By Mr. Underwood):

Q. Will-you tell us whether or. not in your thinkin the .

possibility of having to prime these. motors to-start them, . |

even when they are hot, is something that should~be -_

properly considered in determining whetlier these draw-off

valves for:gasoline should be. in the es | or some-

where else? 5

A. In offier to prime the motors, I believe it took in -

the vicinity of a pint—I think that was the testimony that.

was given, or a quart to prime both motors, ° ind that is |

_ considerable gas ‘to be used, and naturally it a. quart

priming can that you- “had about that size, which F

described in the testimony—it only held about one\quart

'. or less, and naturally it had to be refilled as, soon s

motors were primed: ;

Q. Why is it necessary to have a noe supply of g a

line for priming motors; what.are the other considerations \.

that touch upon it besides fire hazards? |

- A. Other hazards due to the failure of the’ motor,

stalling of the motor, where the motor might have to be Ae

started in a hurry in approaching a dock or going through . “\

or under a bridge, or approaching a bridge; you have \

* your hazards on the external part of the vessel; you-might co

strike a dock or run into a shoal or go on a lee shore, and |

‘might have to start your motor hurriedly, and naturally) --— ~~

a metor wil]. start much: quicker when primed than it

_ Would start ordinarily. kee

The Court: : [. Fonte ct

“Mr, Munroe, you spoke of what the testimony was. Did

you hear all ef the testimony dc did you read the testi-

mony? | | -

The Witness: ss

beard all of the technic testimony.

The Court:

| 1 se tele tile Sian: is tin taaln. be. cop. ah ge

testimony; I wish you would refer to it. If you take any

“ part of the testimony as a basis for your answers, I wish .

ee ee

The Witness: _ veh, |

1 will if I can remember it; = 1 can remember who

‘said it.

The .Court: aN

You don't have to stéte who said it; just state the factors -

you take into consideration as a basis for any- expert

- opinion that you may ‘render. I am not asking you to do

that now, but I am merely making this observation for

your guidance in = future. He ;

The Witness:

_ Very well.

(By Mr. Underwood): 7 Ses.

Q. ‘All things considered, can you ‘tell us later or

not in your opinion it was proper to have such an arrange

ment as this in the Seminole? ies

A. If thete was going to be any free gas used in th: :

boat, it was better to have it right where it could be

easily obtained and under the euparvicien of an experi-

enced ‘man.

Q. How many of these valves had to be opened

order to draw off gasoline? . .

_ A... Two besides the ones on the tank.

Q. In such installation as you ua seen before, “hav e

you seen one or .two?

‘A. Fhave never seen but one.

. readd : .

Go . .

—

Q@ Have you examined these two valves that ‘iin

Exhibit 11? ,

i Yes, I have looked at them..

“Q- In your opinion are they proper valves for _—

: use? ° .

A, They are perfectly’ good Globe yelves; it’ is Crane

150; that is the water or steam pressure it can be used

for.

Q Is there any similar marking‘ on the ‘other valve?

A. Om the other valve. is 125; that is the maximum

. amount: of pressure for steam.’ x

Q. .Do I understand that. these figures, 150 and 125 in>

dicate the pressures’ that these valves are supposed to with~

ee ee en

A. That is correct, of steam. ~. | :

Q. What pressure would they be subjected to when

closed or the Seminole, assuming that. the tanks were full?

’ A. Not-over two ahd one-half pounds. ties

Q. " Thaven’t asked you to calculate the margin of safe-

ty, and I won't. What type of wens are these; let’s take

first Crane 150?

A. ‘This is a metal to metal Globe valve.

_Q. ‘Is that what is called a ground-seat valve?

’ A. This is a ground-seat valve on this. No, I will take

_. that back. I have examined it now. That is a -composi-

"tion seat valve, the Crane 150.

Q. The 150 valve is a composition seat valve?

A. “That is correct. |

Q-. Have you been able to tell tiene ' your examination

what kind of composition the seat is made of?

A. No.

Q Do you remember opening that valve —_ oo

Patten? |

A. Yes.

@. Did -you observe the reiiiut of the stuff that came

out?

a eed (2308 * | 2

. ‘,

Joho did, Dut am not a chemist and I couldn’ ‘Mell what

-- the ingredients avas ‘that that stuff was made of, that

that seat was made of. ‘oh

~* s+ Q. sn. your opinionNis*a composition seat valve. a proper

valve for a gasoline line?”

A. Providing the composits

‘ composition is a proper one for Fesisting gasoline.

~Q. Is there such a ee yey? ane

-A: There Mor eg et

Q. Is it made ie a cual: maker. who them? .

1 AL ht is made by Crane and also by. Jenkins. en

gy Is it used for gasoline customarily?

A.~ This is the valve that they recommend for the, use

of gasoline.

ne _ Q There 1s ae special seat made for gasoline? -

As fh A. “Yes, there is a special composition seat made for

— gasoline?: |

.Q.. We have had some iseematon. as to the baditive

‘merits of metal ground seat and composition seat valves;

-, what is your opinion? —

_. A. Either one.in my opinion is good. I think that the ;

- composition seat, if the proper composition is used, makes

about as ‘tight a joint as it is. possible to use.. 1 notice that

Crane always uses the composition ‘seat in his heavier

‘pressure valve. This one is marked 150, and it is a com-

pouttion ve. The ground seat is plenty good enough —

for the Tow pressure. It will take caré of any Sand or grit

that ets in’ there. It would easily. pulverize most any- .

Mee Bay that gets in there except possibly a diamond; and."

ll naturally break that grit'down until it wil] make a’

perfect seat iristead of mov ‘ing up in the joint, in the: ‘com-

.s. . * ~ pound of the composition seat. = | |...

ee Q. In’ your opinion, were these valves; proper valves?

‘s ae A They were perfectly proper, \ |

; ws a : AR oe Assuming, ‘Mr. Munroe, that the-line which: led from Ne

4 i the f ,manifold to these drain valves. led back athwart- J

| 4 whips fre at

the starboard end of ca of i, through the ,

—~2309

sides of a tank which was situated: above the square open- —

ing in, the forward engineroom bulkhead, and was sup- ~

ported by these sides, in your opinion was that adequate

support for such a line rade up as this.line was? -

A. I-would say that it was perfectly adequate; it was a

three-quarter inch line, and the spacing of these supports

was quite. sufficiently close. : , :

The Court: a aeons

We will.take a five minute recess. .. one,

> =

, (Recéss.)

(By Bie. Underwood):

Q. Now, Mr. Munroe, before the recess .we were talking

about supports for the drain line that led to these valves.

‘T want to- get it ‘clear. In. your opinion was that support

from: the sides of the tank adequate suport for a line of

that size and length to insure it against persis sit due to

vibration? :

A... Yes. The paces were aaaiy close enough to- |

gether. Of course, I couldn't tell what the size of the hole

was through there; I assume that it was a neat fit.

‘Q. I will ask you to. assume that it was, Mr. Munroe.

A: All right. .

Q. Something: has been said ‘about the union ieeidss

these two drain valves \that form Exhibit 11, and I think

. there has beer some testimony that it was installed the

-wreng way What have you to say about: that? y

A.. I really can’t say that there is any wrong way; the

customary mariner-of setting up a union of this type is to

make it up against the line; in other words, as the nut is:

.. turned it is turned to the right.to set the nut up. t to the

'. thyead behind it.

Q.. Against the ling that is already in place?

S A. Yes. -

eee

Q. And that has a tendency to tighten up the joints .

that are already in the line to which it is being added?

A. That are already in the line, and that is the way

it-.is made’ up; the metal’ end of this thing is on the main

line.

Q. Assuming that. ieee is a ‘aaliatiain of gasoline in the

pipe, does it make any difference which way the union is’

made up, whether in one direction or the other? 2

. A. After it is tight the pressure on both sides is equal,

so’ that it wouldn't make arly ifference : if the” nut is set -

up tight.

Q. Mave you examined the plug of the ground-seat

pak valve, the valve marked Crane 125?

A. Yes, ¥ have examined this. :

Q. In your opinion is that a proper plug?

A. . This is a proper type of plug and seat.

_Q. Some attention has ‘been called to the condition of

the contact rim. or surface of the plug; what have atch to

.say about that?

_.A. There is a a small ha in this: plug; wisslties it was

present prior to the fire or not cannot’ be determined;

that could easily have. occurred due to corrosion since the “

fire, due ‘to the heat, and even jf it was there prior’to the.

fire it is on the upper end of the plug, above wheré the

plug seats.

Q. Do I understand that you say that the crack in the

contact surface is above the point where the plug comes

in contact’ with the seat? |

A.- That is correct. aes

Q. That being so, could hare be ‘any leak or is it

physically possible to have had any leak in that flaw?

‘A: No possibility. $

Q. Have you tested that wales f see edibew: it ‘is tight

“now? 3 \ ae

- A. No, I haviatt t. It could easily be loose now due to .

- the extreme temperature that was ee to it; the heat

of the fire warping the metal.

2311

Q. Some comment has halen susie ebout the angle be-

tween the plug arid the set of that valve. What is your

opinion as to that?

A. Wéll, ‘this is. quite a sharp angle. I wuld say off-

‘hand, without measuring it, that ‘it is sharper than a 45-

_ degree angle. This is not a straight faced angle; it. is.

rounded. You can get any wheres from 45 to’more of an”

angle. ~

Q. I think the suggestion has been made that ie needle

type: valve is the preferable ype. What is your —

"as t® that?

A. A needle type valve is not a proper valve for a cut

off valve, due to its increased area of contact between the

‘plug and the seat, there being more chance of grit or —

‘foreign matter lodging in there and keeping’ the valve

from seating properly. A, needle type vaive is used only |

for throttling purposes, where you want to. graduate the .

flow of fluid through the valve.

Q: In your opinion is the angle on that valve a proper

angie for this use? . . .

A. It is quite a sufficient angle.

Q. Assuming that there was a glass gauge in the en-

gineréom and that it rari from a T-connection in a manifold

which was packed’ with asbestos packing, will you tell us

whethér or not that, is a proper fitting for an engineroom

of that type of boat? eae

Mr. Botts:

I object on the ground that there: is no \ sien that -

‘there was any asbestos packing.

The Court: ee : Kis

. I.don’t think so. Does the evidence establish that?

| Mr. Underwood:

My recollection is that the witness Schlappi so testified.

2312

The Court: ; .

I will overrule the objection and let the assumption re-.

main in, and if the assumption_is not well-founded, of

_ course the opinion goes out.

Mr. Underwood: :

Does Mr. Botts have any woaiaxea he recollection?

oe =

Mr.-Botts: -

I think he said it was wicking.

A. The use of a plass ty pe gauge in such an’ iistalle-

tion is quite proper;-it is the only correct manner of |

measuring his fuel consumption or the. fuel remaining | in- a

his tanks. A gauge of that type is- used on all steam -

boilers where greater pressures are used, and it is in com- —

‘mon use on g great many vessels, even in gasoline today.

On several boats that I have been on I have seén them in.

use, and I have installed them myself. There is one boat —

‘here in town right now that has,-I believe, four sight

gauges in her fuel line, right in her engineroom. :

_ Q. “Some question has been raised as to the accuracy . ,

- of my recollection as to the nature of the packing in —

the fitting, so I will ask you the same question again, and

ask: you-not to assume anything about . the packing, and

; __+_—willask y you whether or not such a device asa glass gauge

is a proper device to have in an engineroom of a vessel ;

of this type?

A.---#& glass dauge’ is ‘perfectly proper.

'Q. I believe: you have. already given your reasons

in an answer to a previ ious —

A. Yes. -

Q. Is wicking a proper type of pecking?

_. A. That depends on what you. are speaking about. if

you are speaking about cotton wicking, that is one thing:

Wicking is made up.in several forms. There is asbestos

2313. .

Neteicline, cotton wicking and graphite wicking; also flax

. wicking. Wicking is anything that is made up with fibre

or threads. | > é

Q. I take it that your~ opinion is that some. — is

all right and some wicking is not?

‘A. That. is correct. ;

-@ What is the particular. hazard, if there is one, of

_a glass gauge for gasoline?

A. The orily hazard of a glass gauge is that it is easier °

to break, but where this particular gauge was installed

_I can't Say, because there is no indication as to where

it was. If it was up against the wall in back of a panel

and protected on. either side by rods or strips of wood or"

anything which would prevent the accidental striking of it |

human elernent or something swinging—a. gauge of that

_type is usually installed ‘with a a valve at both _

and bottom. —

Q. Do you. know ‘whether this one was?

A.- This one had a cut-off valve at the bottom I am

sure, because I found a part of the lower end of it; I, don't

know what was on the upper end.

Q. You have ‘not seen the upper end?

A. No. That ‘is a standard valve manufactured ‘for

that sole purpose. .

en ee practice is gasoline ordinarily in ‘the gauge?

’, A. No. You open your valve and aliow a column of .

fluid to rise in your tube, and you measure it, and then

after you,are through. with that you can drain it back into

the line and remove all. gasoline or fluid from your gauge.

Q. In your opinion is it necessary and proper equip-’

ment to have cut-off ee in n gasoline feed lines near

the carburetors? .

ae A. That depends a ste deal on the head in the line;

it is not absolutely necessary.-

‘Q. What is the ordinary purpose of having: cut-off

valv es in a gas line near the carburetor? -

2314

rr Only when working on the carburetor and: discon-

". necting the gasoline from the carburetor, to ‘disconnect |

the gasoline’ from the carburetor. | os

Q. Now in-this installation I will ask you to assume : that

there were cut-off valves in the gas line at a point below

the_manifold and at a point below the strainers where the -

feed l

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