Transcript of Record — Earle & Stoddart, Inc. v. Ellerman's Wilson Line, Ltd.
Supreme Court brief1932
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SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
OCTOBER TERM, 1932
No. 20
EARLE & STODDART, INC., ET AL., OWNERS OF
CARGO ON STEAMSHIP ‘“tALILEO”’, PETI-
TIONERS,
vs.
ELLERMAN’S WILSON LINE, LTD., OWNER OF
STEAMSHIP ‘‘GALILEO’”’
ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES CIRCUIT
COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SECOND CIRCUIT
VOL. IL.
INDEX
Original Print
Testimony ofCharles Barron...........seeeesseseees 331 255
SORE CMI 86s CO Oa aes 874 292
Cle” MEMO Ss ies ER So See's Cease cece 416 328
Sob Th: NOR seis veer it ec cenesceeces 422 334
TRRGUY J; THR. Seki ceca sibcceccscs 447 355
John H. Neale (recalled).............. 457 364
SOM Bi TASC oa ss ei tes 459 366
Rely A SS is NARS 488 388
Robert H. Laverie.............+e00.00- 504 402
Robert S. Haight.................0005- 516 412
Charles EB. Ross... .....ceccccssscscees 519 414
Os Ths PO Sa GR EN teenies 520 415
Fletcher H. Starr............cc.ceeeeee 539 429
William P. Brakenbury................ 566 451
Jupp & Derwerter (INc.), Printers, WasHinaton, D. C., May 12, 1982
ii INDEX.
Original Print
Testimony of Frederick Ellison (recalled)........-.- 601 480
William P. Brakenbury (recalled)...... 602 481
S. W. Parr (recalled) .......-...-++++- 603 482
Horace C. Porter (recalled)........... 627 500
Alfred E. Jordan...........seeeeeeeeee 635 506
John L. Stanley (recailed)...........- 647 515
Fletcher Starr (recalled).............. 640 517
Libellants’ exhibits:
1—Photoprint of lower deck of “Galileo”
between the No. 2 and No, 3 hatches
looking forward, marked in evidence at
POND BBR. SS acs ode ccncccedsccscceede 659 §25
2—Photoprint, same as Exhibit 1 canes that
the view is toward the starboard side,
marked in evidence at folio 285....... 660 526
8—Photoprint, same as Exhibit 1 except that
the view is looking aft on the port side
forward, marked in evidence at folio
ESS ean cb dk sedetseres Cticacaen Oak 527
4—Photoprint, same as Exhibit 1 but show-
ing the compartment containing the sill
piece, marked in evidence at folio 289. . 662 528
5—Photoprint, same as Exhibit 1 but show-
ing the compartment with the caked
coal and grease, marked in evidence at
folio 290..... nec ge Vee dues + Kase tke, oe 529
6—Photoprint, looking down into the vessel
thru the No. 2 hatch, marked in evi-
dence at folio 292..... pekebicsesiiuwes 664 530
7—Photoprint, view of the upper between
deck compartment between No. 2 and
No. 3 hatches, looking aft, marked in
evidence at folio 298............+-++- 665 531
&—Photoprint of the caked coal and grease
in the No. 3 lower between deck,
marked in evidence at folio 295....... 666 532
9—Photoprint, showing first, view of bridge
looking forward, marked in evidence at
folio 206........cereececee ssh Patie'ae Ge 533
9a—Photoprint, view of No. 2 hatchway,
taken from the bridge, marked in
evidence at folio 206........-.-+00+-- 668 534
9b—Photoprint, view of the fore deck, taken
from forward of No. 1 Latch, marked
in evidence at folio 296........+-...+- 669 535
9c—Photoprint, view of the after deck taken
from the stern, marked in evidence at
folio 296....... gies wa Siaceiniieanre th FN Ree 670 536
9a—Photoprint, view of the engine and boiler
room casings on vessel, marked in evi-
dence at folio 296.........seeeeeeeeee 871 537
——
INDEX. ll
Libellants’ exhibits: Original Print
9e—Photoprint, view of the after deck look-
ing aft, marked in evidence at folio
PO ef eu kd pbasisenaeere dsun oth asp. c:0:4 672 538
9f—Photoprint, view of one of the holds
looking down into the hatchway,
marked in evidence at folio 206...... 673 539
10—Photoprint of a sketch of the arrange-
ment of the between decks of the
steamship “Galileo”, marked in evi-
GROG OE Gi cis kncics ceuccss ue wae 674 540
11—Photoprint, sketch, marked in notideia
at folio 305..... FéAe shia ee heh od snk da5 675 541
12—Photoprint, sketch of the deck plan of
the lower between decks and shows the
locations of the No. 2 hateh, No, 3
hatch, the grain feeder, wooden bulk-
head, the ventilators and the passage-
ways, marked in evidence at folios
SOS OU BR ays sees ee aches RS cepaeses CO 542
18—Photoprint, sketch showing where the
coal and cargo was, marked in evidence
OE BIND ee kde caviedk sec e elk iiiwes 677 543
14—Letter, dated pean 20th, 1927, and
photoprints, three sheets, report,
marked for identification at folio 360. 678 544
15—Radio messages, marked in evidence at
SRR ph Se a eee abesseas> C8 547
16—Report made by the chief qugtuner sur-
veyor for Lloyds’ Register of British
and Foreign Shipping, on Spontaneous
Combustion of Coal, dated London,
May, 1912, only pages 16 and 17 of
pamphlet printed, remainder omitted
pursuant to stipulation, marked in evi-
dence at folio 374...... eeed¥cbwacue's 684 548
17—Official instruction issued by British
Board of Trade, dated December,
1922, only pages 1, 2, and 3 up to para-
graph 6 are printed, remainder omitted
pursuant to stipulation, marked in evi-
dence at folio 375................ 689 551
18—Photoprint of plan of the sheumehip
“Galileo”, marked in evidence at folio
412 ee TT Te Te PO en 693 554
19—Pamphlet, called “Fires t Steamship
Bunkers and Cargo Coal”, issued 1923,
omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked
in evidence at folio 597............... 694
20—Stipulation of facts, marked in evidence
GE FG EE Vic icdunctccuiewabasadeednes 555
lv INDEX.
Libellants’ exhibits : Original Print
21—Photoprint, sketch showing the position
of the two pieces of wood which formed
the slot, marked in evidence at folio
GOO 24 acinus Fc EWE ede ee eee ba cabs de'eoe-s 697 557
22—Photoprint, bill of tating covering the
shipment of 8 pieces of plates, signed
by W. J. Chatfield, marked in evidence
at folio 1299. ....... cee eeceereeneeees 698 558
23—Photoprint of invoice of the United States
Steel Products Company, covering 8
pieces of steel, marked in evidence at
folio 1300....... sie Re ee aes owing: 699 559
24—Photoprint, stowage plan, marked in evi-
dence at folio 1358..........seeeeeee 700 560
25—Photoprint, sketch, marked in evidence
at TollO 1484........ cece eeeeereeees 701 561
26—Lioyd’s Calendar, 1926, Fires in Bunkers
and Coal Cargoes, Risks of Spontaneous
Combustion, pages 267-269, remainder
omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked
in evidence at folio 1448............-- 702 562
27—Photoprint of sketch, marked in evidence
at folio 1584........cceeeeee ec eeeeeees 707 566
28—Pamphlet by O. P. Hood on Factors in
Spontaneous Combustion of Coal, 1922,
omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked
for identification at folio 1602 and
marked in evidence at folio 1613...... 708 567
29—Printed herein at page 724 as Respond-
ent’s Exhibit 29.........-eseeeeeeeers 708 567
30—Photoprint, sketch, marked in evidence
at folio 1920.......... ee eeeeeeeeeenes 709 568
Respondent’s exhibits:
A—Photoprints of mate’s log book of
“Galileo” covering period May 15,
~ 1926, to August 22, 1926; page con-
taining August 19 to August 22 photo-
printed, remainder omitted pursuant to
stipulation, marked in evidence at
folios 878 and 976.......--eeeeeeeeee 710 569
B—Photoprints, log bodk, marked in evidence
at folios 889 and 977.......+0-+0++- 711 570
C—Photoprint, cablegram, dated June 23,
1926, marked in evidence at folio 1004. 712 571
D—Photoprint, cablegram, dated August 20,
1926, marked in evidence at folio 1018. 713 572
E—Photoprint, memorandum bearing Ox-
toby’s handwriting, marked in evi-
dence at folio 1143........eeeeeeeees oe 573
—
INDEX.
Respondent’s exhibits: Original
F—Photoprint of report, marked in evidence
at folio 1159...... ein katte Noh eee thw abebel.. Aa
G—Photoprint, copy of letter delivered No-
vemser, 1925, marked in evidence at
folio 1184..... puveees ee neha kcal asien 716
H—Affidavit of Oxtoby re Stanenita story,
omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked
for identification at folio 1241........ 717
I —Photoprint, copy of voyage for June voy-
age, marked in evidence at folio 1284.. 718
J—Manifest of “Galileo” cargo for June,
1926, voyage, omitted pursuant to
stipulation, marked in evidence at folio
SOO Ssivdwadceebs cued ee wleba Wabi «aes 719
K—Photoprint of copy of agent’s report for
voyage 107, marked in evidence at folio
eee cieccaess PSEC SEN tage Penne ee 720
L—Manifest for August voyage, omitted pur-
suant to stipulation, marked in evi-
dence at folio 1291....... vbsaame eas. ae
M—Photoprint of certificate, marked in evi-
dence at folio 1485.............c0000. 722
18b—Photoprint, orig. :al plan, marked in evi-
dence at folio 1708........ bwed vtipesne 723
29—Photoprint, marked in evidence at folio
DONO PE Gd cseerseebe Se Fe a SPY eee pag 724
Stipulation as to notice of claim......... Seie seca arate 725
Memorandum by Coleman, J...... ATS ON aS ee eer 726
Decree ....sesse00. Sida vee ee Latina a ceeeae Sieben Diane, ee
Notice of appeal............. ec cchekeuasees A eWcheveins 747
Assignment of errors....... pe rule ne bee san binekawereat 7
Stipulation as to exhibits..... Ouneseebeewns Speed obese s 780
eee SOD DODNUE is 55 oo.d's Sods iah beeen dbeeberete 783
Clerk’s certificate......... .+...(omitted in printing).. 784
Supplemental transcript of record............... woke bewes 785
Testimony of John J. Chenin. abausé eave bhemada tee 785
Respondent’s Exhibit “A”—Memorandum as to coal. 807
Respondent’s Exhibit “B”’—Plan of S. S. Marengo...... 808
Stipulation as to supplemental record.................. 810
Proceedings in United States circuit court of appeals, second
circuit ....... Pee aknle CCeseben step ecs Jia wha wens ww he des 811
ION, TOW, Si ooh nied 6.6.04 bin bo-4 ced) Rcd alae yhesppesacce Man
NOE Kadiwawes os Engr ob 00h Os5s bhKES EAC HAS CREAN Ew ESE Wace 819
Clerk’s certificate...... ehe Chae OmaA (omitted in printing).. 820
Order allowing certiorari...........scccccccscccsecceseess S821
—————
255
_ A. Where they came down.
Q. And that is the only fastening that you used to make
your covers tight to the bulkhead?
A. Just held it onto the bulkhead; that is all.
Redirect examination.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Mr. Ellison, what became of the scrap logs on this
voyage?
A. The scrap logs?
Q. Yes.
A. When the ship was run on the shore, I said to the
third mate——
Q. Never mind telling me what happened; I am asking
you what was done with it. Was it lost?
. It was lost.
. It was lost?
. Went down, and it was lost.
- These were the only logs what you saved?
. This is all I saved.
Did you save the ship’s articles?
I did.
Did you lose any of your clothes?
. Yes, I did lose my clothes.
Q. Mr. Ellison, while you were on board this ship, did
you ever wash down No. 3 ’tweendecks with a hose?
A. No, sir; oh, no, sir, never did that.
POPOPOPOD
Cuakies Barzon, a witness called on behalf of the re-
spondent, being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Are you a master mariner?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long have you held a master’s license?
A. Since 1895,
Q. How old are you, captain?
A. 58.
[fol. 332] Q. How many years have you been going to sea?
A. 44 years.
Q. Did you start at the bottom and work yourself up to
captain?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was your home, when you started?
A. Hull.
Q. Have you been with the same company all these
years?
A. Sailing on sailing ships, and then when they were
owned by Bailee & Leetham, and then later by the Wilson
line, and then finally with the Ellerman’s Wilson line.
Q. So you have beep with the same interests how many
years—same steamship company or its predecessor in in-
terest, approximately.
A. About 39 years.
By the Court:
Q. Are you still with them?
A. Still with them, sir.
Q. What are you doing now?
A. I am here, sir.
Q. I mean, are you captain of a boat now?
A. Yes, sir, I was until I came here.
Mr. Keating: We had to take him off a ship to bring
him here. :
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Is your master’s license a British Board of Trade
license?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. For what—unlimited?
A. Unlimited.
Q. Unlimited?
A. Unlimited, all seas.
Q. How many years have you actually served as a mas-
ter as distinguished from having had a master’s license?
How many years?
A. 29 years.
{fol. 333] Q. You have been a shipmaster actually in com-
mand 26 years?
—
257
A. 29 years, that is up to now; 26 years up to the time of
the ‘‘Galileo’’.
About how many steamers have you been captain of?
. I would say approximately about twenty.
And how did they vary in tonnage?
From 1000 tons up to 6000 tons.
Were you master of the ‘‘Galileo’’ in August, 1926?
Yes, sir.
How long had you been master of the ‘‘Galileo’’?
. From October, 1925.
You joined her in October, 1925?
. Yes, sir.
As master?
As master.
. Had you served any other steamers of the same line
running between Hull and New York?
A. No.
Q. This was your first?
A. First voyage to America.
Q. First voyage in that trade?
A. In that trade.
Q. Was there a coal strike in England in the Spring
and Summer of 1926?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, prior to June 21, where had you taken your coal
for the round trip prior to June?
A. 1921?
Q. 1926, prior to June, 1926.
A. In Newcastle, and once in Rotterdam, in Holland.
Q. About what is the capacity of the ship’s bunkers, if
you remember, the permanent bunkers?
A. About 740 tons; I could not say exactly.
Q. When you were coaling on the other side for that
round trip prior to June, before the coal strike, did you
fill up your permanent bunkers?
. Yes.
[fol. 334] Q. In Hull?
A. In Newcastle.
? 3 did you carry any extra coal, any surplus coal?
es
Q. Where did you carry that?
A. In No. 3 lower hold.
E opopopepepore
17—809
258
-Q. And when you got to New York, was there always
something done regularly about the coal that was carried
in No. 3 lower hold?
A. Yes; we discharged the coal from the lower hold and
put it in the permanent bunkers.
Q. And used that up?
A. And used it up.
Q. And that process went on up until June, 1926?
A. Until the strike.
Q. Until the strike?
A. Yes.
Q. You arrived here, I think it appears from the chief
officer’s testimony, on or about June 21st, 1926?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you bring over any coal for the round from Eng-
land on that voyage, in No. 3 hold, or was the coal strike
on?
A. No, the coal strike was on.
Q. So you had no coal in No. 3 at that time?
A. No.
Q. In No. 3 lower hold?
A. In No. 3 lower hold, no.
Q. Now, when you were here, did you receive any or-
ders? I don’t want you to tell me what the orders were;
but did you receive any orders with respect to bunkering
in New York for the round voyage?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. From whom did you receive the orders?
A. From Mr. Sanderson.
Q. Who was Mr. Sanderson?
A. The agent for the Wilson Line.
Q. He was corinected with the New York agents of your
owners—is that correct?
A. Wilson, of Hull.
[fol. 335] Q. Where is Mr. Sanderson—do you know?
A. He has died since.
Q. He is dead?
A. Yes.
Q. Will you tell me what your orders were with respect
to coaling, in June, 1926—what orders did you receive?
A. Take sufficient coal for the round voyage, that means
from New York to New York, via Hull to New York again.
—_—
259
Q. I show you a cable, captain, dated June 23, 1926, and
I ask you if you ever saw that cable before. If you did
not see it, say so; if you did, tell me whether you saw it or
not.
A. No.
Q. You never saw that cable?
A. Never saw it.
Q. Now, when you got the order to coal for the round,
what did you do with respect to it?
Mr. Jones: May I see that cable? (Examining same.)
Mr. Keating: I offer this cable in evidence, with Mr.
Jones’ permission.
(Same received in evidence and marked Respondent’s
Exhibit C.)
Q. Now, after you received the order to bunker for the
round voyage, did you take the matter up with the chief
engineer?
A. Certainly.
Q. And what did you and the chief engineer do, together,
if anything, about—first off, of all, did you discuss.the
amount that it would be necessary to take?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And do you remember how much you decided would
be necessary?
A. No.
Q. The chief engineer and you did decide on some
amount; is that correct?
A. We conferred together as to what amount we should
take.
Q. After you had conferred, did you go and make any
[fol. 336] examination of the ship to determine where you
would put the coal?
A. Well, we arranged to put it in the—fill the perma-
nent bunkers up and No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter
decks.
Q. You decided to put the coal in those spaces?
A. Yes. :
Q. Who decided that?
Mr. Jones: I object, if your Honor please, as to who
decided it; it is a conclusion.
Mr. Keating: This is the man in charge of the job.
260
Q. Was it your decision?
A. I decided; it was my decision; we both agreed.
Q. You decided it?
A. I decided it; I made the final decision; there was no
dispute about it.
The Court: Just so that Mr. Jones may be protected, I
overrule the objection and give an exception to him.
Q. You heard the chief officer testified with regard to
the space of No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter deck?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was his testimony accurate?
A. As near as I can say.
Q. I show you these sketches, and just ask you to look
at Exhibits 10, 11 and 12, and ask you whether, approxi-
mately, those sketches are correct as far as you can recol-
lect (handing same to witness).
A. On sketch No. 10——
Q. That is Exhibit No. 10?
A. Exhibit No. 10, the wooden bulkhead which separates
the shelter deck from No. 2 shelter deck, I think is a little
[fol. 337] bit too far forward, according to my recollection.
Q. Other than that, are the sketches all right?
A. Other than that they are; yes.
Q. Before you decided to load this surplus coal into No.
3 shelter deck and No. 3 ’tweendecks, did you actually go
down into those spaces in June, yourself, with the chief
engineer, and do you recollect whether you went down?
A. I don’t recollect.
Q. You don’t recollect?
A. I don’t recollect.
Q. Had you, while you were master of the ship, ever car-
ried any coal—prior to June—in No. 3 ’tweendecks?
A. No.
Q. In June, latter part of June, 1926, it has been testified
that No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter decks were filled
up with coal; is that correct?
A. That is in June?
Q. June.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And was that the first time that any coal had ever
been carried in the ’tweendecks, so far as you know?
A. As far as I know.
—
Q. While you were master?
A. While I was master.
Q. You sailed from New York, I believe it has been testi-
fied, on July 2nd?
A. July 2nd.
Q. In July, I think it was on July the 2nd, or there-
abouts, for Hull?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that you errived in Hull, in June, the 19th, ap-
proximately.
A. Approximately July 19th.
Q. July 19th?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That you carried grain in No. 3 lower hold on that
June voyage; is that right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And was that grain discharged in Hull?
A. Yes, sir.
[fol. 338] Q. In order to get that grain, what had you
done to the coal in No. 3 ’tweendecks and shelter decks?
A. Took that down and shifted it into the permanent
bunkers.
Q. That is, you had taken some of it out?
A. Taken some of it out; approximately 200 tons.
Q. Out of the ’tweendecks?
A. Out of the ’tweendecks and the shelter deck.
Q. And that was shifted into your permanent bunkers?
A. It was shifted into the permanent bunkers.
Q. When you were in Hull, in June, do you know what
was intended to do with your ship when you came back?
A. I heard the ship was, on the next voyage, would be
laying up to get refrigerated—to get her refrigeration
fixed up.
Q. To get her refrigeration fixed up?
A. To get her refrigeration fixed up.
261
Mr. Jones: You said in June; you meant in July?
The Witness: In July.
Q. In other words, when you completed your August
trip, you were to be laid up in Hull?
A. August voyage.
Q. In order to install refrigeration?
A. To put refrigeration in.
a
262
Q. You sailed from Hull, and you eventually arrived in
New York, I believe it was testified it was August the 17th;
am I right about that—about August the 17th?
A. About August the 17th.
Q. When you arrived, do you know about how much coal
you had left in your No. 3 ’tweendecks?
A. About 160 tons.
[fol. 339] Q. That is as near as you can figure?
A. As near as I can tell, to a few tons; it is impossible
to tell to a ton.
Q. Had you expected to take any coal here in August on
your return home, any extra coal?
A. Well, we had to have sufficient to take us back to Hull.
Q. And were you going to coal for the round on that
voyage?
A. No.
Q. After you arrived here, did you receive any orders
about coaling here in New York in August for the round
voyage?
A. Yes, I ordered coal sufficient to coal us back to Hull,
and then about August the 20th or somewhere around there
we received an order to take 850 tons of coal for the ‘‘Fran-
cesco’’, who was taking our place.
Q. In other words, you were not going to take the coal
for the round voyage yourself?
A. No. :
Q. You were to take some extra bunkers for some other
ship?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the name of that ship?
A. I believe the ‘‘Francesco’’.
Q. What were you going to do with those extra bunk-
ers when you got to Hull?
A. Discharge it into the ‘‘Francesco’’.
Q. I show you a cable dated August the 20th, 1926, and
ask you if you ever saw that cable before. If you didn’t see
the cable, tell me (handing same to witness).
A. Never seen it before, sir.
Mr. Jones: I have no objection to this, this is from the
owners in Hull to the Wilson Line here in New York.
Mr. Keating: To the New York agent.
Mr. Jones: No objection.
263
[fol. 340] Mr. Keating: I offer this cable in evidence as
Respondent’s Exhibit D.
(Same received in evidence and marked Respondent’s
Exhibit D.)
Q. Who told you that you were to take this extra coal,
this extra 850 tons, for transference to the ‘‘Francesco’’?
A. Mr. Sanderson.
Q. That is the same Mr. Sanderson that you spoke of a
moment ago, that is now dead?
A. Yes, Mr. Lloyd Sanderson.
Q. After you got those orders to take 850 tons, what did
you do?
A. I told the engineer the orders that we were getting,
and we conferred as to where we should put them.
Q. And what did you decide?
A. Well, after the engineering measuring up the space in
No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter deck, we just about
could get them in there.
Q. And you decided to carry them there; is that it?
A. Decided to carry them there.
Q. In connection with that decision, did you have any
advice from the shore?
A. None whatever.
Q. Did anybody offer you any advice or suggestion as to
where those bunkers should be put?
A. No, sir. :
Q. This matter was decided by you in consultation with
whom?
A. And the engineer.
Q. And he alone, nobody else?
A. I cannot say; probably the chief officer was there; we
usually work with the chief officer; we got to work together.
Q. But nobody was there from the shore?
A. Nobody at all; they had nothing to do with it.
[fol. 341] Q. Does your company maintain a marine en-
gineer or marine superintendent in New York?
A. No.
Q. You have got a superintending engineer in Hull; is
that right?
A. Surely.
264
Q. You make your reports to Hull, do you, or to New
York, in regard to your—in regard to anything you want
to do about the ship?
A. To Hull.
Q. Do you report to New York, to anybody in New York,
about the matters affecting the ship other than the loading
of cargo, and so forth?
A. No, it is not necessary. If we want any repairs done,
we let them know.
Q. And they send over?
A. No, they do not send it; I inform MacMillan that I
want it, and that is left with me.
Q. The matter is entirely in your hands?
A. Entirely in my hands.
Q. When you are in New York?
A. Anything in connection with the ship is entirely in
my hands.
Q. Did you go down into No. 3 ’tweendecks before what
has been called here the new coal was put in? Did you go
down into No. 3 ’tweendecks at any time?
A. Yes, we loaded the lower hold with grain, and then I
was very particular that the coal should not get down to
the grain; I saw the chief officer batten up this hatch, as
near as I can tell, until 5 o’clock, and I left on the 24th of
August, and I went down there specially to warn him that
he should make a good job of this here, and he was down
there and the engineer was also down there.
Q. What did you see the engineer doing?
A. He was looking at the coal, I would say.
Q. Was he walking around?
[fol. 342] A. Yes; he stood talking, I mean to say, and re-
marked upon the coal, that the space would just about get
the new coal in.
Q. Now, did you make any personal inspection of the
coal?
A. When I was there, I saw the coal there, and saw the
way it was stowed.
Q. How was it stowed?
A. Well, it was taken over the hatch coaming, the sides
of the hatch—and trimmed so it sloped towards the hatch.
The Court: From the sides toward what?
The Witness: From the sides of the ship to the hatch
coaming, they were trimming it so that it would slope
_——
265
towards the hatch coaming, in a sloping position, I should
say from two to three feet from the deck, and about 3 feet
from the hatch coaming.
By the Court:
Q. Two or three feet all over the deck?
A. From the top of the deck.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. From where it is up against the bulkhead?
A. From where it is up against the bulkhead, and from
where it was against the ship’s side.
By the Court:
Q. The pile was about two or three feet high on the
deck?
A. The pile was seven feet high.
Q. And two or three feet from what?
A. From the deck head, being seven feet deep.
Q. From the shelter deck?
[fol. 343] A. From the shelter deck, which made a differ-
ence of about three feet at the hatch coaming.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. That is, between it and the hatch coaming?
A. All around the sides of the hatch coaming, had to
clear that out, so as to get the tarpaulin battened down—
nailed down.
Q. Now when would all the coal in No. 3 ’tweendecks
have been taken out of that space after, if you had continued
your voyage?
A. Well, out of the ’tweendecks?
Q. Out of No. 3 ’tweendecks.
A. It would be taken out at the rate of 40 tons a day.
Q. That was the coal that you—you burned that coal up
as your bunkers?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were your permanent bunkers full when you left New
York on your August voyage?
A. Well, I could not say.
266
Q. You had taken them—where had you put the coal for
transference, that you intended to transfer to the ‘‘Fran-
cesco’’—where was that coal?
A. In No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter decks.
Q. When would it have come out of there, and when would
it have been transferred to the ‘‘Francesco’’, on what date?
A. It is all according to what sort of a passage I had
home—immediately I arrived in Hull.
Q. What is your ordinary sailing time from New York?
A. 16 days.
Q. So, what you are saying is, about the 13th or the 14th
of September?
A. Give me a calendar, and I will be able to tell you.
Q. Of course, we can figure that out later; that would
have been about 14 days after you left New York?
A. No, about 16 days.
[fol. 344] Q. About 16 days after you left New York?
A. That would be about the 14th of September.
Q. That coal was in a position to be taken out at that
time; is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just what were you going to do with the steamer in
Hull when you arrived there?
A. After I had discharged her, they were going to lay
her up and put this refrigerating plant into her.
Q. Now, did you see them loading so-called new coal into —
the ship, into the No. 3 ’tweendecks?
A. Yes, from the bridge; I did not inspect it.
Q. You were not there?
A. No, I was not there. :
Q. You just happened to see them, as the stuff came
aboard? mA,
A. As the stuff came aboard; I mean, I saw the lighter
alongside, and I saw them bringing it aboard the ship.
Q. How did they take it off?
A. Put it into hand buckets.
Q. Is that put into hand buckets on the lighter?
A. It is trimmed into buckets on the lighter and then
dumped into barrows.
Q. Wheelbarrows?
A. Wheelbarrows; and dumped into the hatch coaming.
Q. Somebody wheeling the barrow over to the hatch coam-
ing?
—
267
. Yes, sir.
. And then dumped it down into the hatch?
. Yes, sir.
. You saw them doing that, did you?
. Yes, I saw them doing that.
. You did not inspect the coal?
. No; the engineer did it.
. Who is it, on the ‘‘Galileo’’, who had charge of the
coal?
A. The engineer.
Q. And by the ‘‘engineer’’, do you mean the chief engi-
neer?
A. The chief engineer.
[fol. 345] Q. Are you a coal man?
A. No, sir.
Q. Are you a coal chemist?
A. No, sir; they call me a bonehead.
Q. Are you a combustion engineer?
A. No, sir.
Q. Is there anybody else on board the ship that has got
charge of the coal in your steamer?
A. The engineer is the man, the chief engineer; I look
to him, I mean to say, for everything in connection with the
coal.
Q. Whose responsibility is it—he is responsible, is he?
A. The responsibility is his.
Q. Whose duty was it, if anybody’s, to make an inspection
of the so-called old coal in No. 3 ’tweendecks in August,
1926, before any new coal was taken in?
. The engineer’s—chief engineer’s.
Was it anybody else’s duty?
. No, not to make a special examination of it.
You did not make a personal examination?
No, I did not make a personal examination.
Whom did you rely on?
The chief engineer.
Did you see him down there?
. I saw him down there; yes, sir.
Do you know whether he had been down there often?
. I should say he had.
. Had he been—had you seen him in and out of there
on the voyage over, do you know?
OPO Popop
OPOPOPOPOPOD
268
A. Well, no, I could not say.
Q. You could not say?
A. I could not say, I kept no track.
Q. How many times did you see the chief engineer that
you can recall now, if you can recall seeing him, that you do
remember seeing him down there—once?
A. I remember seeing him down there the day before.
[fol. 346] Q. Is that the second occasion?
A. That is the second occasion; he was down there be-
cause——
Q. What was he down there for the second occasion for?
A. I could not say; making an inspection of the coal, |
presume.
Mr. Jones: I move to strike out whatever the witness
presumes.
The Court: It may be struck out.
Q. Now, who had charge of receiving that coal on board
the ship?
A. The chief engineer.
Q. And who had supervision over its stowage on board?
A. The chief engineer.
Q. Now, did they eventually fill this space with coal, No.
3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter decks?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, had you ever seen the wooden bulkhead which is
in the fore part of No. 3 ’tweendecks between No. 2 ’tween-
decks and No. 3 *tweendecks—had you ever seen that bulk-
head?
A. Yes.
Q. Was that bulkhead—was that a temporary wooden
bulkhead?
A. No; what you call a permanent bulkhead.
Q. Was it there when you joined the ship?
A. Yes.
Q. You don’t know, do you, how long it was there?
A. No.
Q. It was there during the entire time you were on the
ship?
A. The entire time I was there.
Q. Whose job is it on the ship, to inspect the bulkhead?
A. I trusted the chief officer with this duty.
ng
Q. You trusted the chief officer to do that?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever, personally, inspect the bulkhead closely?
A. I am accustomed to go down in the holds every day.
{fol. 347] Q. For a look around?
A. For a general look around when they are loading
cargo.
Q. When you got to Hull following what I would call the
June voyage, but which really began in July, did you have
any damage to the cargo in No. 2 ’tweendecks from the coal
that you carried on that voyage?
A. None whatever; if there had been any, I would have
been the first to know about it.
Q. All those complaints immediately come to you?
A. All those complaints are made to me as soon as the
cargo is discharged, or soon after. I am very particular
about this coal getting mixed up with this cargo; that is the
reason—one reason why I went down in the ’tweendecks, to
see the chief officer battening up the holes and cracks, to
make sure it was done to my satisfaction.
Q. You wanted to see that the coal dust did not get into
any of the cargo?
A. I wanted to see that the coal dust did not get into any
of the cargo.
Q. That is the reason you went down there?
A. That is the reason I went down there.
Q. Captain, are you able to form any opinion, from hav-
ing seen that bulkhead, whether it would be possible for any
amount—any considerable amount of air to go through it,
assuming there was coal filled in on one side and cargo on
the other?
A. Yes, I mean to say there would be very little.
Mr. Jones: He asked you whether you can form an
opinion on that.
Q. Can you form an opinion on that?
A. This is what we call a dust-proof——
[fol. 348] Mr. Jones: I move that that be struck out.
The Court: Strike it out.
A. Yes.
Q. He says yes. That is, you have an opinion, you
answer ‘‘ Yes’’ to that?
270
A. May I have the question read over to me again?
Q. Yes, surely.
A. I was not quite clear on it.
Q. Just repeat it to him.
(Question repeated by the reporter as follows :)
‘‘Captain, are you able to form any opinion, from having
seen that bulkhead, whether it would be possible for any
amount—any considerable amount of air to go through it,
assuming there was coal filled in on one side and cargo on
the other?’’)
In other words, can you form an opinion in your mind; in
other words, what opinion have you, if you have an opinion?
A. I would think that no air would get through that bulk-
head.
Q. No; I want to know whether or not you have any
opinion, whether it might or might not; that is something
that I am going to ask you about afterwards; I want to
know whether you have something in your head, an opinion.
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Now, captain, could, in your opinion, assuming that
coal was on one side of that bulkhead, which you saw, and
cargo on the other, would it have been physically possible,
in your opinion, for any considerable amount of air to pass
through the bulkhead?
A. It could not.
Mr. Jones: I object to that, if your Honor please. In the
[fol. 349] first place, I don’t think the witness is qualified,
has shown any qualifications to answer the question. My
main objection is that the coal on one side and cargo on the
other, and it seems to me that the question does not state
the facts which he should state. I assume what my friend
means is whether it is possible through the cargo and
through the bulkhead, and then through that coal, and that
I think is quite irrelevant to the inquiry. I think it is vague,
and does not help us very much. I would like to have the
captain describe to us the bulkhead so we may know some-
thing about it.
Mr. Keating: You can cross examine on that; he is a
master mariner in charge of the ship; he can describe it.
The Court: I sustain the objection on the ground of in-
competency, with an exception to you. I will specify that I
—
271
mean it is incompetent in form, and in addition to that I
think it is a matter of common knowledge, and not a proper
subject for expert testimony ; and furthermore, the witness
himself has not been proved competent on the question of
whether or not air would pass through. I, don’t know that
he knows any more about that than I. If it is a proper sub-
ject for expert testimony, you have got. to qualify this man
on his ability to determine when a partition is air-tight. I
don’t think it is a proper subject for expert testimony.
Seems to me it would be a matter of common knowledge
from the construction of that bulkhead.
Mr. Keating: I should think so too. I imagine that you
[fol. 350] and I and all of us know what that bulkhead is,
and can form our own opinions; but I think I am entitled to
ask the question. Perhaps if I go along a little you will see
whether I can ask him any competent question.
The Court: The only ground upon which I would con-
sider admitting it would be, not on the question of whether
or not the bulkhead was air-tight, but whether it was a
proper degree of care that he was exercising. I am afraid
it is incompetent on that also. The one question here is
whether or not he was negligent himself, and his own ideas
on the subject, I suppose, might be relevant, the ideas in
his head at the time that he ordered this thing done, may
be relevant upon the question of whether or not he was
exercising due diligence.
Mr. Jones: I would like for him to tell how the bulkhead
was made, so we can form our own opinion as to whether
the thing was air-tight or not.
The Court: All right, go ahead, and note an exception
for the respondent.
(Long discussion off the record.)
Q. Now, Captain, did you have a full crew on board, on
the August voyage?
. Yes.
Did you have enough food on board?
Yes, sir.
And may I assume that you had enough coal on board?
. Yes, sir.
Did you have any leaks in the ship?
. None whatever.
Had you been in any accident?
O>Oorore>
272
A. No, sir.
~ — Q. Anything about the ship needing repairs?
. No.
Q. That you know about?
A. No, not on that voyage.
Q. Was the ‘‘Galileo’’—do you know whether the ‘‘Gali-
leo’? was classed in any classification society—was she
rated by anybody on the August voyage?
A. A-1 at Lloyds.
Q. Subsequently it was discovered, after you left New
York, that there was a fire, and you turned around and
eventually your ship foundered, having been filled with
water by the Fire Department?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the ship was a total loss?
A. The ship was a total loss.
By the Court:
Q. Has it ever been put into service again?
A. No, sir.
Mr. Keating: I am informed, sir, she was raised to get
her out of blocking the fairway out here, and subsequently
sold for scrap in Baltimore and broken up. She was sub-
merged for over a year. These pictures were taken im-
mediately after she was raised, these photographs (indi-
cating). :
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Captain, had anybody connected with the New York
agents given you any instructions where to stow this coal?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you get any instructions at all about the coal,
other than to take it?
A. None whatever; they left it entirely in my hands.
[fol. 352] Q. Did Mr. Sanderson or anybody in the New
York office, ever come aboard your ship while you were
loading?
A. Yes, occasionally.
Q. Do you know whether they did on this voyage or not?
A. I presume they did; every voyage they come aboard
one day, probably the day we arrive or the day we sailed.
_ ——
273
Cross-examination.
By Mr. Jones:
Q. Captain, I believe you stated that on your June voy-
age, you carried grain in your lower No. 3?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you had your lower No. 3 permanently fitted up
for carrying grain, didn’t you?
A. Yes; I don’t quite understand what you mean by
‘permanently fitted up’. _
Q. You had a grain feeder running from the shelter deck
down into the lower hold?
A. That is so.
Q. Isn’t it a fact, that in your August voyage, your
agents here had booked grain for your lower No. 3?
A. Yes.
Q. So you could not carry the coal in lower No. 3, could
you, because the agents—your agents—had booked grain
for the lower No. 3?
. No, they had not.
You did not book the grain, did you?
. No; they booked it.
Oh, they had booked it?
By the Court:
Who booked it—the agents?
. The agents would book it.
Sanderson?
. Sanderson.
[fol. 353] By Mr. Jones:
Q. And Sanderson was in charge of the owner’s busi-
ness here in New York, wasn’t he?
A. Represented them.
Q. He had sole charge, didn’t he?
A. No.
Q. Who else had charge, any charge?
A. I am in charge.
Q. Outside of yourself, Sanderson was the one who had
the whole charge?
A. Well, he represented the owners.
OPop
PO >oO
18—809
en meen ENGR + ORE ee anne nee
274
Q. You did not book any cargo for the ship, did you?
A. No.
Q. You had nothing to do with booking cargo?
A. No.
Q. And isn’t it a fact that there was a full cargo booked
for this ship?
A. No.
Q. Were not you informed by Mr. Sanderson, when you
came to New York, that he had booked a full cargo for
your ship?
A. No.
Q. Did you make up this stowage plan?
A. No.
Q. Where was this stowage plan made up?
A. That was made up——
Q. I am showing you now Exhibit 13.
A. What am I to look at?
Q. Read him the question.
(Question repeated by the reporter.)
A. Made up on the pier.
By the Court:
Q. Who made it up?
A. One of the clerks on the pier.
Q. One of the clerks on the pier?
A. Yes.
Q. Sanderson’s clerk?
A. Sanderson’s clerk; yes, sir, that was made up when
the ship was loaded.
[fol. 354] By Mr. Jones:
Q. When the ship was loaded?
A. Yes.
Q. And didn’t you know that there was no other place
on the ship where you could have put this additional quan-
tity of coal?
A. Yes, there was.
Q. One minute—which you were carrying for this
‘“Francesco’’, other than the places which you already did
put it in?
A. T could have put it anywhere.
—
Q. Where could you have put it?
A. In No. 1 hold.
Q. No. 1 hold?
A. No. 2 hold or No. 3 hold.
Q. Wouldn’t you have carried the wheat that they had
booked for these holds?
A. Probably shut it out.
Q. You would not have carried it at all?
A. No.
Q. Be frank with me, Captain, isn’t this a fact, that you,
if you had carried this coal in compartments marked ‘‘A’”’
and ‘‘B’’ on this stowage plan, you would have to shut it
out, and not carried it at all?
Mr. Keating: Show him the plan.
Q. There is the plan; look at it and see and tell me if
what I say is not so.
A. You mean to infer that no other place that I could
have put the coal in down there?
Q. Exactly so; I say, it is a fact?
A. It could be put in other places.
Q. Where else would you have put it?
A. I could have put it in the shelter deck and No. 2.
Q. What would you have done with the cargo in the
[fol. 355] shelter deck of No. 2?
A. There was none in it.
The Court: Let us see the plan.
Q. You mean to say that you could have carried this
additional quantity in the shelter deck of No. 2, the whole
additional quantity?
A. Yes.
The Court: Where—right here is it (indicating) ?
Mr. Keating: It is marked No. 2, with some sort of a
letter.
275
Q. You are showing us the space that you say you could
have carried it in?
A. Down here (indicating).
Q. Mark that space with an ‘‘A’’—that is already
marked with ‘‘A’’.
A. That is No. 2, I presume (indicating). No. 2 shelter
deck.
276
By the Court:
Q. You mean put it on the upper deck?
A. What we call the lower, or the ’tweendecks, or shel-
ter deck.
(Discussion off the record between Court and counsel
and witness.)
Mr. Keating: This space that you are talking about is
marked with an ‘‘F’’?
Mr. Jones: The space he is talking about is marked ‘‘F’’.
Q. Now, the space you have marked ‘‘F’’, Captain, shows
from the plan that you had steel plates in there, and that
[fol. 356] those steel plates were 60 feet long. Look at the
plan and tell me if that is not so.
A. I cannot say, I cannot say that.
Mr. Keating: Have you got your glasses, Captain?
Q. All right; ask him the question over again. Read it
to him,
(Question repeated by the revorter.)
A. How many plates?
Q. I didn’t ask you how many; I am not asking you that
question; I am asking you——
A. Steel plates?
Q. —the one question and only question is, now, does not
the plan show that you had steel plates in what you call
No. 2 shelter deck, and the steel plates were 60 feet long?
. How many of them?
I have not asked you that question.
. Yes, sir.
. It does show that, doesn’t it?
Yes.
And shows that the steel plates were 60 feet long?
. It says so here.
Doesn’t it show that there on the plan?
. There is 8 steel plates, looks to me like it.
It says on this ‘‘8 steel plates 60 feet’’?
. This may be inches.
You know what you mean by inches, you put two
A
Q.
A
Q
A.
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q.
A
Q.
siets
dashes for inches, and one for a foot, don’t you? Am I
not right about that, Captain?
A. Yes.
Q. The mate testified that this space which is marked
‘‘B”’ on this plan was 33 feet long; you agree with him on
that, don’t you?
A. Yes.
Q. And will you explain to me whether it would be pos.
sible to put steel plates 60 feet long in a space 33 feet long?
A. Won’t you repeat that question.
[fol. 357] Q. I. won’t ask you that question; it is argu-
mentative, and I should not have asked it; anybody would
know as well as you do that it could not be done. But I
will ask you this question: Isn’t it a fact that if you had
placed coal in No. 2 shelter deck, you would have had to
place the coal on top of these steel plates?
A. I cannot recall where these steel plates were put.
Q. Isn’t it obvious, Captain, that you could not have
carried the coal in that compartment without putting the
coal on top of the steel plates?
A. I may have put it in the forepart.
Q. How long a space was that space?
A. I could not say.
Q. You don’t know? I can find out from your plan and
demonstrate that without asking you about it. Now, Cap-
tain, your orders directed you to carry these bunkers,
didn’t they?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And they, if they directed you to carry it as bunkers,
you knew that they wished you to carry it in this space or
these spaces ‘‘A’’ and ‘‘B’’, didn’t you?
A. Carry what?
Q. You knew that they wished you to carry it there in
the permanent or temporary bunker space of this ship?
A. They did not say where I was to carry it.
Q. Didn’t you know, that if you carried that coal in No.
2 shelter deck, you would have to carry it as cargo?
A. No. It is-carried as cargo wherever you put it.
Q. Captain, you carried the coal in No. 2 ’tweendecks
on a previous voyage?
A. No, we did not.
Q. No. 3 ’tweendecks, on a previous voyage, I beg your
277
278
pardon; and when you got to Hull, didn’t your owners come
aboard?
A. A representative of the stevedores.
[fol. 358] Q. A man in charge of the owner of the ship,
at Hull, came aboard, didn’t he?
A. Yes.
Q. A marine superintendent?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The highest man who has anything to do with the
physical operation of your ships, came aboard, didn’t he?
A. I could not say.
Q. Well, didn’t he come aboard every voyage?
A. Yes, sir, no doubt he does.
Q. And he went all over the ship, didn’t he?
A. I could not say.
Q. Doesn’t he always go all over the ship?
A. Not necessarily.
Q. Isn’t it a part of the routine for him to go all over
the ship?
A. I don’t know.
Q. Do you mean to say that you have been a master of
a ship—how many years?
A. 29 years.
Q. 29 years, and you don’t know that when you come to
your home port, your marine superintendent does not go
all over the ship? .
A. It is not necessary to go all over the ship.
Q. Is not that a part of the routine of ship operation?
A. No, unless he had something to go for.
Q. Didn’t you tell him, as a matter of fact, that you car-
ried this coal in your ’tweendecks?
A. No.
Q. Did you not make a report to him as to the amount of
coal you took?
A. He knows that already.
Q. From whom?
A. The engineer.
Q. The engineer makes a report to him?
A. No.
Q. How does he learn, if he does not learn it from the
engineer?
A. He makes his report to the engineer superintendent.
—————— nae
279
Q. To the engineer superintendent?
A. Yes.
[fol. 359] Q. And is he the man in charge of that part of
the owners’ business?
A. The bunkers, yes.
Q. He came aboard, did he?
A. I could not say.
Q. Is not that man, that permanent engineer superin-
tendent, in your own employ?
A. Yes.
Q. And the permanent marine superintendent in your
own employ?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And every time you come to Hull, this man comes
aboard, these men that I have just mentioned, come aboard,
don’t they?
A. I don’t know; if it is necessary, they would come.
Q. What?
A. If it is necessary, they would come on board.
Q. Do you mean to say that the practice in your line is
for a marine superintendent, and an engineer superintend-
ent, to come on board only in case of accidents?
A. Oh, no; they come on board and go all over the ship.
Q. Don’t they inspect the ship?
A. They inspect the ship occasionally.
Q. How often do they inspect the ship?
A. Well, I could not say; when necessary.
Q. When do you say that it is necessary?
A. If there is anything happens, or there is a request
to come aboard.
Q. Do you mean to say that they only inspect the ship,
only when you have an engineer’s request made to inspect
the ship?
A. No; it may be inspected.
Q. How often do they inspect the ship?
A. I could not say; depends upon the nature and how
thorough an inspection is needed.
Q. Be frank with me, captain——
Mr. Keating: I object to this characterization of the wit-
ness’ testimony.
(fol. 360] Mr. Jones: I think the witness’ evasion of my
questions justifies it.
280
Mr. Keating: I do not agree with that.
A. (Interrupting.) I am not evading.
The Court: No, Mr. Keating, I will allow it; I think it is
a just criticism of the witness.
Q. Now, isn’t it a fact, that every time you come to Hull,
that the marine superintendent and the engineer superin-
tendent come aboard your ship and inspect your ship?
A. I could not say.
By the Court:
Q. Captain, cannot you enlighten us a little on the prac-
tice? In sitting here, in this Admiralty Part, month after
month, I have found, and I have gotten the impression, that
that was the general practice in all steamship companies, to
have someone come on board the steamship at the end of
every voyage. It has been testified to before me in many
cases. Is yours a different practice tlan that?
A. The assistant superintendent comes on board the ship
every time.
Q. Somebody in authority?
A. Yes, certainly.
Q. Someone comes with authority to see and inspect the
ship, doesn’t he?
A. Yes, sir; certainly.
Q. And you say it is always the assistant superintend-
ent?
A. No; sometimes the superintendent.
Q. The superintendent or assistant to the superintend-
ent?
A. That is so, sir.
Q. Invariably comes aboard and makes a more or less
thorough inspection of the ship altogether?
A. Yes, they do.
[fol. 361] By Mr. Jones:
Q. And it would be obvious to him that you had carried
coal in these ’tweendeck compartments?
A. They would know that. You are speaking now of the
June voyage?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes.
= aan
Q. And it is obvious, too, captain, from this stowage
plan, that the only place that you could have carried that
coal was in No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter deck and
not placed the coal on top of the steel in No. 2 shelter deck?
A. I don’t know exactly where I would place it; say in
No. 2 shelter deck; there might have been some room;
and there might have been room in there apart from the
steel plates.
Q. I tell you, captain, that in No. 2 shelter deck is about
60 feet long. That that is about its dimensions. Under
those circumstances, the steel plates would take up the main
part of No. 2 shelter deck, considering the length of it;
isn’t that so?
A. I don’t know how they are going to get the 60-foot
plates down the hatchway.
281
he Court: Are you sure that those plates are 60 feet?
Isn’t that the indication on the drawing, that it is 60 feet?
Mr. Jones: All I am going by is the plan, your Honor;
it says there, as your Honor will see there, 60 with a dash,
which usually indicates 60 feet.
A, (Interrupting.) It is a physical impossibility to get
the plates down there.
Q. Captain, did you ever hear of any ship being loaded
other than filling up the spaces in the lower part of the
ship before filling the spaces in the top part of the ship?
A. No.
[fol. 362] Q. Nobody else ever did?
A. No.
Q. And you would have put this coal in the *tweendeck
space rather than put it up higher in No. 2?
A. But the lower part of the ship was full.
Q. And everybody knew you were going to put the coal
in that place, didn’t they?
A. I don’t know what you mean by ‘‘everybody’’. The
engineer and the chief officer all knew it.
Q. Mr. Sanderson knew it too, didn’t he?
A. I don’t know whether Mr. Sanderson did or not.
Q. When you were presented with the plan, he must
have known about it; isn’t that so?
A. I arranged the plan, presumably.
Q. You drew up this plan?
SEPP e rs
eR 2 eesti ss eee Se Se
ee
282
A. I arranged the material.
Q. You reported it to Mr. Sanderson in his office, the
plan was prepared by Mr. Sanderson’s office?
A. After the cargo was in.
Q. Before you sailed?
A. Before we sailed, I suppose so.
By the Court:
Q. Who determined where the cargo was to be placed?
A. Me, sir.
Q. Sanderson had nothing to do about determining about
what part of the boat should carry any particular material,
do you say?
A. It was left entirely to me where to put the cargo.
By Mr. Jones:
Q. He did not leave it to you as to whether you were to
carry this grain or to carry the coal, did he?
A. I mean to say, he gives me a list of the cargo; he
knows the capacity of the ship, and it is left to me where
to place the cargo.
[fol. 363] Q. And he told you you had to carry the grain?
A. He did not; I had the grain already.
Q. You knew you had to carry it in your lower hold, and
he knew it too, didn’t he? :
A. That is the place were they put grain.
Q. That is the place that they carry grain?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Everybody knows that, don’t they?
A. Certainly.
The Court: I think we might shorten this: Dio you con-
tend that the owners are not responsible for placing the coal
in these holds.
Mr. Keating: Absolutely; that is entirely up to the
officers of the ship. Our contention is that it is a good place,
and that the officers selected a good place to put the coal,
and that the shipowners had nothing to do with it at all.
Mr. Jones: Our contention is obviously, that when they
ordered this additional coal, that the owners must have
known from their own plan of the ship, that the owners
must have known that they would put it there.
283
The Court: That was made up for cargo use, was it?
Mr. Keating: Yes.
A. (Interrupting.) It is physically impossible to get
these 60-foot plates down the hatch into a 60-foot deck, or
any other number of plates of that length in there; I am
sure there was no 60-foot plates there.
| Q. Very well; you have told us that several times already.
[fol. 364] A. Stiil you insist on it that there was these 60-
foot plates there.
Q. You report, do you not, to your office here, the quan-
tity of coal you have when you arrive?
A. Yes, I believe I did.
Q. And you report the bunkers and the places in the ship
where the coal is, don’t you?
A. No, sir.
Q. Don’t you report, or your chief engineer report, the
quantity of coal that is on hanc, the bunkers, when you
arrive?
A. No, sir.
Q. Don’t you have forms which you make out stating the
exact quantity that you have got in each bunker?
A. No.
Q. You have nothing to do with employing the stevedore?
A. No.
Q. And the stevedore does all the stowing of the cargo?
A. Under my directions and my instructions, under my
supervision and the chief officer.
Q. Isn’t it a fact that when you arrived here, you found
this cargo all booked for your vessel?
A. That I could not say.
Q. You don’t remember?
A. I don’t remember.
Q. But you had nothing to do with the booking of it?
A. I did not book the cargo.
Q. Did you have anything to do with the purchasing of
the coal that was put in these two compartments?
A. No, sir.
Q. That is, the shelter deck and the ’tweendeck.
A. No.
Q. The coal was purchased by Sanderson?
A. I don’t know if by Sanderson & Son or the Ellerman’s
Wilson.
a,
Q. Purchased by a representative of the Ellerman’s Wil-
son Line; that is right, isn’t it?
A. I don’t know.
[fol. 365] Q. At any rate, you had nothing to do with the
purchase of it?
No.
Who delivered the coal to you?
. Well, they gave me lighters.
Did you know where they came from?
No.
. Do you know by whom it was brought to you?
. Lordered it to be sent down alongside the ship.
. Mr. Sanderson told you the coal] had been ordered,
n’t he?
A. I told Mr. Sanderson to order it.
Q. You told Mr. Sanderson to order it?
A. Yes, after I got orders from Hull to take it.
Q. From whom did you get the orders—direct from Hull
by cable?
A. No; from Mr. Sanderson,
Q. Do you mean to say that you told Mr. Sanderson to
buy this coal?
A. No; I told him to order it alongside.
Q. As a matter of fact, what happened was that Mr. San-
derson told you to take the coal, didn’t he?
. He told me he received instructions from Hull.
. He told you you were to take the coal?
. To take the coal; and it was passed on to me.
. Who actually loaded the coal on board?
. The coal gang.
. Did you employ the stevedores who did the loading?
No.
. Who employed them?
. I presume it is Mr. Sanderson employed these men.
. Now, as I understood you, this coal was hoisted from
lighters in buckets? A. Yes.
Q. And the buckets were emptied into barrows?
A. Yes.
[fol. 366] Q. And the barrows were wheeled across the
deck?
A. Yes.
Q. And dumped over the hatch coaming into the hatch-
OPOoperep
di
Q.
OPOProrPoror>
285
way and the coal fell over the weather deck down to the
*tweendecks ?
A. Yes, as near as I can recollect.
Q. Was there any trimming done to the coal after it
came down to the ’tween decks?
. There would be.
. Who did that?
. Trimmers.
. Stevedores?
. Trimmers.
Trimmers, employed by whom?
. By Mr. Sanderson.
I show you Exhibit No. 16, and ask you if this book
was ever called to your attention?
A. I have never seen that book.
Q. No one has ever called that book to your attention,
has there?
A. No.
Q. I show you Exhibit No. 17 for Identification, and ask
you if that pamphlet has ever been called to your attention.
A. Well, I have seen something similar to it.
Q. You have seen something similar to that?
A. Yes.
Q. You know it is an official publication of the Board of
Trade, don’t you, by looking at it?
OPoOroro>
Mr. Keating: I object to that your Honor; how can the
man tell that?
A. May I look at it again? I see it is by the Board of
Trade.
The Court: Sustained.
Mr. Jones: Exception.
(fol. 367] Q. I ask you whether or not the following cir-
cular of the Board of Trade was ever called to your at-
tention by your owners:
‘*Masters and officers of ships loading coal at ports in
the United Kingdom, are warned that accidents have fre-
quently oceurred through the ignition of coal gas. All
hatchways should therefore be left open, both before and
for some time after cargo is shipped, and as the gas may
find its way into forecastles and cabins, owing to the bulk-
286
head not being gas-tight, a free circulation of air should be
provided for in holds and other spaces below deck. In
order to secure adequate surface ventilation, at least two
ventilators should be provided for each hold or compart-
ment in which coal is stowed; these ventilators should be
of wrought iron or wrought steel, fitted with cowls and
placed at opposite ends of the compartment, or as far apart
as circumstances will permit. In the event of adequate
ventilation not being provided, the vessel will be liable to
be detained. Any further information required on the sub-
ject of ventilation, may be obtained on application to the
offices of the Board of Trade.”’
Was that ever called to your attention?
A. I know the ship is constructed according to Lloyd’s
rules.
Q. I didn’t ask you that.
A. No, it was not.
Q. This was never called to your attention?
A. No.
Q. You have said that Exhibit No. 17 was never called
[fol. 368] to your attention?
A. It never was called to my attention.
Q. Then was the following notice ever called to your at-
tention?
‘Tn the official notices for 1912, issued in Great Britain,
Notice 11 coal cargoes, was as follows: The attention of the
master is directed to the following recommendations of the
Royal Commission appointed to inquire into the causes of
spontaneous combustion of coal on board ship; that the
breakage of coal in its transport from the pit to the ship’s
hold, the shipment of pyritic coal in a wet condition, and
especially ventilation through the body of coal cargoes,
conduce to spontaneous combustion, even though the coal
may not be unfit for conveyance on long voyages; that
when coal is being carried on long voyages, the temper-
atures in the various portion of the cargo should be tested
periodically by thermometers and registered in the log;
that with a view to guarding against explosion, free and
continuous egress to the open air independently of the
hatchways, should be provided for the explosive gases by
means of a system of surface ventilation which would be
—— CLACTON LENT TN
287
effective in all circumstances of weather; in the event of
an- inquiry into any casualty arising on board this ship
from spontaneous combustion or explosion, neglect on the
part of the master or officers of these recommendations, will
be brought to the notice of the court. The master is also
[fol. 369] warned that in the event of his vessel being
found to be in a state dangerous to human life, either from
through ventilation which is conductive to spontaneous
combustion of the coal, or from not having sufficient sur-
face ventilation to carry off explosive gas, he will render
the ship liable to detention for unseaworthiness and him-
self and the owners liable for prosecution for taking a
vessel to sea in an unseaworthy condition. Masters and
owners of ships carrying coal are also warned that gas
from the hold or ’tweendecks may find its way into the
forecastle and cabins if the bulkheads are not gas-tight.
Persons in charge of coal laden ships should bear in mind
the dangers resulting therefrom the consequent impropri-
ety of introducing naked lights in these places.’’
Was that circular called to your attention?
A. Or a similar one that came from or issued by the
Board of Trade; it is a notice to mariners of those things.
I cannot recall that one.
Q. You cannot recall that one?
A. I cannot recall that that especial one was; but others
similar to that.
Mr. Keating: You mean similar ones were received?
The Witness: Notices to mariners.
Q. Did your owners ever call your attention to this?
A. I cannot say that they did; I do not recall it; but
similar ones have been; I mean to say, about the dangers
of coal and the ventilation of coal.
[fol. 370] Q. What days did you receive those?
A. I could not tell you.
Q. Did you take any precaution at all to prevent air
going through this coal?
A. There is two ventilators on the deck.
Q. How does that prevent air going through the coal?
A. No air could go through the coal. It is stowed in
what is called dust-tight bulkheads which is as near air-
tight as possible to make it.
288
Q. You know a dust-tight bulkhead is not an air-tight
bulkhead, isn’t it?
A. It is as near air-tight as it is possible to make it.
Q. You know it is not air-tight, I didn’t ask you the
other question, you know it is not air-tight, don’t you,
Captain?
A. Well, I don’t suppose any wooden bulkhead is per-
fectly air-tight; but what little air gets through that would
not affect that.
Q. You don’t know a thing about that, do you, whether
it would or would not affect it?
A. I don’t know anything much about coal; but I know
that I know very little about coal.
Q. Can you recall any specific time when your owners
ealled to your attention, the danger of carrying coal?
A. No.
Q. And what is to be guarded against in carrying coal?
A. No, because we never carried it, but just bunkers.
Q. Never carried it?
A. No.
Q. Do you know whether or not there is a gentleman
named Mr. Thomas Nevins, who worked for your owners
here in New York?
A. Never heard of him.
Q. Whom, if anybody, is the superintending engineer of
your owners here in New York?
A. Haven’t got one.
[fol. 371] Q. Who has charge of the physical condition
of the ships of your owners here in New York?
Do you know a gentleman named Capt. Isbester?
Yes.
What is his job?
. Just an official of the other lines.
. He had nothing to do with your ship?
. Unless he is called in.
. Who ealls him in?
A. If it is necessary I would get him to come down on
board.
Q. If he has no connection with your owners, why do
you call him in?
OPoporo
289
A. He is superintendent for the combine—he is one of
the combines.
Q. As a matter of fact, was not he aboard your ship in
August and June, 1926?
A. I cannot recall it.
Q. What do you mean by the ‘‘combine’’?
A. I mean to say, there is the Ellerman’s Wilson Line
and there is the Ellerman Bouker Hull Line, and there is
the City Line.
Q. You would say one management runs the whole out-
fit?
A. I think the Wilson Line is under a separate manage-
ment; I don’t know much about it.
Q. You made out a manifest before you sailed from New
York?
A. No.
Q. Somebody had to make it out before you sailed.
Yes.
. Who made out the manifest?
. I could not say.
. Made out by the office?
. Made out by the office.
Didn’t you have to swear to it?
No.
You didn’t swear to it?
No.
[fol.372] Q. In order to get clearance, didn’t you know
and don’t you know, that your manifest had to be filed?
A. I suppose so; yes.
Q. You had to get clearance yourself, didn’t you?
A. No, I go with someone appointed from the office to
the customs house to get clearance.
Q. Don’t you have to get clearance under your own name
as master of the ship?
A. Yes.
Q. You have to file the manifest to get the clearance?
A. I don’t know what they file.
Q. Now, Captain, don’t you know as the master of the
ship, that you have to go and make an oath?
A. That is so.
Q. And have to make an oath as to the correctness of
your manifest?
19—809
©
bPOPOoPOp>
ay
A. That is correct.
Q. What did you mean by telling me that you didn’t
know that the manifest was filed? Do you mean to say
that you make an oath to a manifest as being correct when
you didn’t know it is so?
A. I know the manifest is made up and has to be correct;
you’ve got to trust to one of the offices to do that, because
I cannot identify every item on the manifest.
Q. The manifest is made up by the office and you go
and swear to it because the office says, ‘*Captain, here is
your manifest’’?
A. No, I weuld not do that way.
Q. What do ‘ou do?
A. I got to swear to the manifest, that it is correct.
Q. Without reading it over?
A. IT have seen some of the things.
By the Court:
Q. Whom do you say makes it out—the office, or one of
the officers? I am not sure I heard you right?
A. The office.
[fol. 373] Q. The office?
A. Yes.
Q. That is, Sanderson’s office?
A. Sanderson’s office.
By Mr. Jones:
Q. Then you swear to it without reading it over?
A. I read it over—I mean to say, I look at it.
Q. What do you mean to say, by telling me just now,
that you didn’t know anything about a manifest?
A. I didn’t say I didn’t know anything about it.
Q. I understood you to say so.
A. I didn’t mean that.
Q. You didn’t mean a number of things that you testified
to here today, did you, Captain? You didn’t mean that
you had to stow the coal between No. 3 ’tweendecks because
that is the only place you had to stow it?
A. I didn’t say I had to stow it.
Q. You knew that is a fact, though?
A. It is not the fact; I have told you there is other places
to stow it.
291
Q. Put it on top of these steel plates?
-A. There is plenty of room apart from putting it on
top of the steel plates.
Q. Where else would you put it?
A. Put it in the shelter decks.
Q. Where the steel plates were?
A. Yes, perhaps by the side of where the steel plates
were.
Q. In the shelter deck, according to the stowage plan,
shows——
A. You say 60 feet long, and you cannot get a 60-foot
long plate down there.
Q. Don’t you know 850 tons of bunkers is shown on your
manifest? Were not they shown as being bunkers, on your
manifest?
A. 850 tons?
Q. Yes.
A. In the shelter deck.
[fol. 374] Q. You have 850 tons of coal?
A. Yes.
Q. Which you carried pursuant to orders from your
owners?
A. Yes.
Q. You had to make some notation in your manifest re-
specting that 850 tons of coal, didn’t you?
A. Yes.
Q. What notation did you make in your manifest re-
specting the 850 tons of coal?
A. I cannot recollect.
Q. You cannot?
A. No.
Mr. Jones: Have you got the manifest?
Mr. Keating: No; but we will get it for you if you want
it; do you want it?
Mr Jones: I should.
Mr. Keating: It is filed in the custom house.
Mr. Jones: And I will send a subpoena down there for it.
(Adjourned to Monday, November 11, 1929 at 10:30
o’clock A. M.)
292
New York, November 11, 1929.
' (Met pursuant to adjournment at 10:30 A. M., present
as before.)
Mr. Keating: May I proceed, sir?
The Court: Yes, certainly.
Joun Oxrosy, being duly sworn and examined as a wit-
ness for respondent, testifies :
Direct examination.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Mr. Oxtoby, do you hold a chief engineer’s license?
A. Yes, sir.
[fol. 375] ©. How long have you held that license?
A. Since 1902.
Q. And before that did you hold any other license?
A. Yes, sir, second engineer’s license.
Q. How many years have you been going to sea as a
chief engineer?
. As chief engineer, 14 years.
. Although you held your license longer than that?
. Yes sir.
. But your actual service has been 14 years?
. From—yes, from 1915.
And how many years going to sea as an engineer?
. Well, since I was 21—33 or 34 years.
You have practically served all your manhood as an
engineer on ships?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Coal burners?
A. All coal burners.
Q. And from whom did you get your chief engineer’s
license?
A. Board of Trade.
Q. British Board of Trade?
A. British Board of Trade.
Q. How many years have you been wholly employed by
the Ellerman’s Wilson Line, Ltd.?
A. About 29 years, sir.
Q. You are still in their employ?
OPoOPopop
— ees oe
. Yes, sir.
Are you married?
. Yes, sir.
Where is your home?
. 53 Claremont Avenue, Beverly Road, Hull.
Have you any children?
Yes—six.
When did you join the ‘‘Galileo’’?
November—on or about November, 1924.
1924 or 1925?
1924.
1924?
1924.
And how long did you serve on her?
. That is since I was chief, I was appointed chief over
here i in 1924, but I was second engineer of her before that.
[fol. 376] Q. When did you join her as second engineer?
A. 1908.
Q. How long, all told, have you served on the ‘‘Galileo’’?
A. About 9 years altogether.
Q. Are you sure that it was November, 1924, when you
joined the ‘‘Galileo’’ as chief engineer?
A. Yes, yes, yes.
Q. Where was she at that time?
A. She was in Hull.
Q. Had she been undergoing any repairs, or anything
of that sort?
A. Not in 1924, no.
Q. Where did she go during the year 1924?
A. She went on her usual runs.
Q. Which were they?
A. Hull, Boston, New York, Newcastle; they varied; that
was about her usual run.
Q. Her usual run was New York, Boston and Hull, New-
castle, is that right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, prior to June, 1926, where used you to coal for
the round, if you did coal for the round?
A. Well, either in Hull or in Newcastle.
Q. What is the capacity of your permanent bunkers?
A. 740 tons.
Q. Where did you carry, prior to June, 1926—where did
you carry your surplus coal?
293
POPOPOPOoPoperer
oa
294
A. In the No. 3 lower hold.
Q. Was that the usual practice?
A. Coming out it is, yes.
Q. That is, if you were coming from Hull to New York
you carried surplus coal in No. 3 lower hold?
A. No. 3 lower hold, yes.
Q. When you got to New York what was done with that
coal?
A. Well, it was taken out of there and put in the per-
manent bunkers.
Q. And then you would sail back with that coal in your
bunkers?
A. Yes, sir.
(fol. 377] Q. And go through the same process again, is
that right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Sort of.a circle?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, in the Spring and Summer of 1926 was there
any difficulty with coal in England?
A. Yes, sir, there was a coal strike on.
Q. And during that period were you able to get any coal
in England?
A. No, no, no, not able to get any coal.
Q. Now, when you arrived here in June, I think it was
the 21st of June, according to the libel, did you have any
coal in No. 3 lower hold at that time?
A. No, no.
Q. Now, did you have on any surplus bunkers in New
York on that trip?
A. On that trip, yes.
Q. Was that the first time you had done that?
A. The first time we had taken for the round, yes.
Q. Where did you put that extra coal?
A. In the No. 3 lower between decks and in the No. 3
shelter deck.
Q. And approximately how much did you put in each
space?
A. No. 3 between deck about 350 to 360 ton.
Q. That approximately filled that space, did it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how much did you put in the No. 3 shelter deck?
—
A. About the same quantity, similar to 350 tons.
_Q. Has No. 3 shelter deck got a wooden bulkhead at the
forward end?
A. A wooden bulkhead at the forward end, yes, sir.
Q. And what kind of a wooden bulkhead is that as re-
lated to the No. 1 in No. 3 shelter deck forward?
A. Well, practically the same, I mean it is a wooden
bulkhead.
[fol. 378] Q. What kind of a bulkhead is there at the
after end of No. 3 shelter deck?
A. Well, steel; a steel. .
Q. In the way of the hatch?
A. In the way of the hatch, and wood at each side.
Q. How does that compare with the bulkhead in the deck
below, that is, in the No. 3 between deck?
A. The same thing applies.
Q. Now, aft of the after bulkhead, that is, this steel
bulkhead with wood in the wings in No. 3 shelter deck and
No. 3 between decks, what do you carry?
A. Carry coal.
Q. Is that space immediately aft of those bulkheads part
of the permanent bulkhead?
A. Part of the permanent bulkhead.
Mr. Jones: I move to strike it out.
The Court: I will let it stand.
Mr. Keating: I am sorry; Mr. Jones’ point is well taken.
By the Court:
Q. The rear of the permanent bulkhead is a steel bulk-
head, is it?
A. The rear of the bulkhead, yes, sir.
Q. Steel all the way across?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. In both the between decks and the shelter deck?
A. We are talking of the rear bulkhead are we?
Q. Yes.
A. In the shelter deck, no, sir.
By the Court:
Q. Your permanent bunkers don’t go up to the shelter
[fol. 379] deck, do they?
295
296 |
A. No, sir; no, they go just up to the shelter deck.
Q. But no part of the shelter deck space is included in
the permanent bunkers?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Now, Prior to June, 1926, had you ever carried coal
in No. 3 shelter deck?
A. Oh, yes, we carried it in the No. 3 shelter deck.
Q. Had you any difficulty with the coal that you carried
there?
A. None whatever.
By the Court:
Q. Why would you carry it in the shelter deck? You told
me you carried the surplus in the lower hold of No. 3?
A. Yes, and so much of it in the shelter deck.
Q. It wouldn’t fit in the lower hold?
A. No, and we carried it in the shelter deck.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Prior to June, 1926, while you were aboard this
steamer had you ever carried any coal in No. 3 between
decks ?
A. No, sir, no.
Q. When was the first time you put coal in No. 3 between
decks?
A. On that occasion in June. 2
Q. Do you know what they put down in the lower hold in
June, 1926, No. 3 lower hold?
A. Yes, grain.
By the Court:
Q. Why did you make the change from the lower hold to
the between deck in June?
[fol. 380] A. Well, we just carried the coal coming out
for stability of the ship, but we had grain in the No. 3
lower hold.
Q. You toid me the practice had been to carry coal for
the return trip in the No. 3 lower hold?
A. Yes sir.
NE AE RSET NS REIMER
| 297
Q. And then in June you changed that practice and
started to carry coal in the No. 3 between decks?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And put grain in the lower hold?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I was interested to know why you changed.
A. I don’t know any particular reason, sir, because the
coal was just as handy for me in the No. 3 between decks
as in the lower hold; in fact, it was handier for me to work
with.
Q. What kind of bulkheads did you have in the lower
hold?
A. Wood and steel.
Q. Wood forward?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The same sort as in the between decks?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. You said something to his Honor about stability.
Did you have any grain to carry from Hull to New York?
A. From Hull to New York.
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Explain your statement about stability.
A. Well, coming out the ships are usually light as to
their cargoes, and there was very little cargo, so the coal
was usually put down there so the ship would be in trim
coming out.
Q. You mean to say you would get some weight in the
bottom?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, leaving New York how did you get some weight
[fol. 381] in the No. 3 lower hold?
A. By the grain.
Q. Now tell the Court how it was decided, and by whom,
to put some of the coal in No. 3 between decks in June,
1926?
A. Well, the captain told me that we were going to carry
coal, and suggested to me that the between decks would be
the best place to put it, and I said yes.
Q. And that was the occasion of its being put in?
A. Yes, sir.
298
Q. Now, prior to putting any coal in No. 3 between decks
was there anything else in there at that time, any commod-
ity of any kind?
A. When we put the coal in?
Q. Yes.
A. No, sir.
Q. Before you left on the June trip did you make a
memorandum in writing of the coal you had on board on
arrival, the coal that was loaded while you were here, the
coal shifted, the coal consumed, and th2 coal on board
while leaving?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I show you a memorandum and ask you if that is
your signature attached to that memorandum?
A. Yes, sir, it is.
Mr. Keating: I ask that it be marked in evidence.
(It is marked Exhibit E of this date.)
Q. Mr. Oxtoby, will you look at Exhibit E and tell me
which parts are in your handwriting and which parts are
in someone else’s handwriting?
A. Well, the figures are in my handwriting, but the
other writing is of course made out by a clerk or somebody,
I don’t know who would make it out really.
[fol. 382] Q. That is the usual form that is given you, is
it? -
A. Yes sir.
Q. What do you do with this after you fill it out?
A. T hand it to the clerk usually just a bit before sailing.
Q. Just before you leave?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, Exhibit E shows the coal situation on board
your vessel as far as quantities are concerned when you
left here in June, 19267
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, after you left here in June, 1926, where did
you go?
A. We went to Hull.
Q. And what did you do in Hull with respect to any coal?
A. Well, in the No. 3 between decks they had so much
of it to move so that the grain could be worked from the
lower hold.
a
Q. Do you know bow much they took out?
A. Well, I sould say about 160 tons.
Q. Now, what did they take out of the shelter deck? Did
they take some out of there too, No. 3 shelter deck?
A. No, they didn’t take any out of there.
Q. On the way over to Hull did you use any of that coal?
A. Yes, I used as much as I could get away with; I think
we used 30 or 40 ton over.
Q. And where did that come from?
A. Out of No. 3 between decks.
Q. Now, how did you get. down through the grain to the
coal that was in No. 3 shelter deck or hold? Did you take
any out of there?
A. Oh, yes, yes.
Q. How much did you take out of the shelter deck?
A. No, no, that wasn’t necessary, out of the shelter deck,
that wasn’t necessary.
Q. You didn’t take any out?
A. No.
[fol. 383] Q. How did you get down through the grain in
No. 3 shelter deck to get coal in the hold?
A. We must have worked that coal away ourselves to get
at the hatch on the passage home.
Q. So some sufficient coal came out of No. 3 between
decks and No. 3 shelter decks to get at the grain?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was the only way to get at the grain, wasn’t it?
A. That is right, sir.
Q. Did you take any coal in Hull when you finished what
I call the June trip?
A. No, we did not.
Q. Did you do any shifting of coal in Hull?
A. No, there was only that bit moved that I say they
had to clear that hatch, that was the only movement of the
coal.
Q. Now, you came back to New York, I think it has been
testified that you arrived here on August 17, 1926. Now,
at that time was thre any coal left in No. 3 shelter deck?
A. Yes, sir, there was some left in the shelter deck.
Q. How much, do you know?
A. About 100 tons.
Q. And was there some coal left in No. 3 between decks?
A. Yes, sir.
300
Q. Do you know about how much?
A. About 160.
Q. Now, on the voyage out, which ended here on August
17, 1926, did you go in either of those places, that is, No.
3 between decks and No. 3 shelter deck?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Which one did you go in?
A. I went in both.
Q. What for?
A. To see the quality of the coal and to see the condi-
tions and to see how much coal I wanted.
[fol. 384] Q. Did you use any of that coal out of either
space on the voyage from Hull to New York, ending here
in August?
A. No.
Q. How many times over were you in those spaces, No.
3 between decks and No. 3 shelter deck?
A. Well, it is difficult to recollect all this time ago but
I was certainly down there on three or four occasions.
Q. What did you do when you went in those spaces?
A. Felt the coal to see that it was all in order.
Q. Did you go into any of the other bunker spaces on the
ship?
A. Always; that is my regular duty, go around, what-
ever coal there is.
Q. Why do you go in there to look at the coal?
A. To see the condition of it.
Q. What condition do you mean, whether it is still coal?
A. No, whether it is in good condition or whether it is
heating, or anything of that sort.
Q. Has the chief engineer got any regular duty in con-
nection with that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was part of his job, was it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you expecting to take coal here in New York
in August for the round voyage?
A. No.
Q. Why not? Was the coal strike over?
A. No, because we were going to lay up that voyage to
fix up the refrigerating apparatus.
Q. Now, did you take extra coal here in August, 19267
A. Yes, sir.
301
Q. How did the matter come to your attention that you
were going to take extra coal?
' A. The master told me.
Q. What did he say?
A. He told me we were going to take extra coal here
for our other ships.
[fol. 385] Q. Now, following that conversation, what did
you do, if anything, about taking on extra coal? Did you
do anything?
A. I looked at my space in No. 3 between decks and
shelter deck and told them what we could take in there.
Q. Did you estimate how much was there?
A. Beg pardon? 7
Q. (Repeated.) Did you estimate how much was there?
A. Yes, sir, and how much we could take.
Q. When did you first go into those spaces in New York
with reference to the time you loaded the new coul?
A. On the previous evening to when they were going to
start the coal.
Q. About what time was that?
A. Well, it would be after the grain was finished in the
lower hold, I suppose between 4 and 5 o’clock on that day.
Q. Now, your visit was the afternoon before the day
they started to load the new coal?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you go into No. 3 shelter deck at that time?
= 24 on
Q. Did you go into No. 3 between deck?
A Yes, sir.
Q. What did you do and what did you see at that time?
A. I felt the coal and to my mind it was quite all right
to put the new supply on it.
Q. Did you put your hand on it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did it feel?
A. It felt just about the same as it would feel for that
time of year, I thought.
Q. Now designate the coal as cool, warm or hot; which
would you say it was?
A. I should say it was warm.
[fol. 386] By the Court:
Q. Was it warmer than the parts of the ship?
nny EY eget cn pane
—
A. No, sir, I don’t think so. Of course, it was in August,
that time of year, and everything is a bit warm, though I
didn’t think it was any more than normal.
Q. Do you mean about the temperature of the air also?
A. Well, it may have felt a little warmer than that, sir,
but nothing dangerous.
Mr. Jones: I move to strike out the latter part of his
answer.
The Court: I will allow it to stand, with exception.
Q. What parts did you feel?
A. All round the surface coal, sir, all round the forward
and the two sides.
Q. All on the same level with your shoulder, about?
A. No, in the middle way, and I had a good feel all over
it.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Why did you feel the coal, chief ?
A. Well, it was my duty to do so.
Q. And what was your purpose in putting your hand on
the coal?
A. To make sure that it would be quite all right to put
the other coal on top of it.
Q. Is it part of your duty to inspect the coal?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it part of your duty to make a proper inspection?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, when you left here in August, 1928—
A. 1926, sir.
[fol. 387] Q. I mean 1926; did you make any report sim-
ilar to the ones that you made of the June voyage, which
is marked Exhibit E? (Showing witness paper.)
A. Yes, that is a similar report I made on that voyage.
Q. This is the August voyage on which you were lost?
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Keating: I ask that it be marked in evidence.
(It is marked Exhibit F of this date.)
By the Court:
Q. You didn’t do other than just feel the surface of the
coal?
A. I put my hand into it.
Q. Put your hand into it?
- A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far in?
A Well, to beyond the wrist.
Q. What was it, powdered, finely divided coal?
A. Usually the American coal is very fine.
Q. How did you get your hand in?
A. Well, by working it; you could work your hand in the
coal.
Q. Did it feel warmer inside than on the surface?
A. No, not to me, sir. Well, I might qualify that and
say that it would be a little warmer than it was on the
surface; nothing detrimental to that, though.
Q. I understand you to say that the coal felt warmer
than the air?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you mean that it also felt warmer than, well, the
woodwork or the iron work on the ship down in the between
deck? Just consider the temporary bunker, Did you hap-
pen to feel that at the same time?
A. The wood or anything like that?
[fol. 388] Q. Yes.
A. No, sir, I didn’t, no. It may have felt slightly warmer
than that.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Mr. Oxtoby, tell me which part of Exhibit F is in
your handwriting.
A. The figures, and also the signature.
Q. The remainder is the writing of a clerk, is it?
A Yes, sir.
Q. And what did you do with Exhibit F when you filled
it out?
A. Handed it back to the clerk.
Q. One of the agent’s clerks?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. On the pier?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long before sailing?
A. Just a few hours, generally the last day it comes.
Q. That is the last thing you do?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have to put on it, do you not, the amount of coal
consumed in port?
A. Yes; I can’t make it up generally until the last thing,
for you have to make it up with the quantity of coal con-
sumed in port.
Q. Did you see anyone else down there in No. 3 between
decks while you were there in August?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who else did you see?
A. The chief officer was down there.
Q. What was he doing?
A. Looking after his hatch to see that everything was in
good order.
Q. That is the hatch over the grain?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he physically doing some work himself?
A. No, I can’t say that he was physically doing it, but
he was looking over to see that it was battened down and
all in good order.
Q. Did you see anyone else there?
A. Yes, the master came Gown too.
[fol. 389] Q. What was he doing?
A. He was having a look at his part of the place to see
that the mate had carried out his part battening all the
holds to keep the coal dust away, and so on.
Q. And whose duty was it on the ‘‘Galileo’’ to look after
the coal?
A. Mine.
Q. Was there anybody el
do with it?
A. No.
Q. Whose duty on the
whether the coal was cool
gerous?
A. Mine.
Q. Was it anybody else’s duty?
A. No.
_ Did the owners have a Marine Superintendent in
New York?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Have they got a Superinten
York?
A. Not to my knowledge.
se on board had anything to
‘¢Galileo’’ was it to determine
or warm or hot or safe or dan-
dent Engineer in New
305
Q. Did you ever meet him?
_ A. No.
Q. Anybody of that character on the ship in August?
A. No.
Q. Anybody fom the shore, the agent or anybody of that
character, give you any orders about that coal in August,
1926?
A. No.
Q. Before you put any coal in No. 3 between decks in
August how much coal did you say was left from the pre-
vious trip?
A. About 160 tons.
Q. And when had that 160 been put in there?
A. In June previous, the June voyage.
Q. That was on June 30th, wasn’t it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you describe to his Honor the coal pile, the form
that that 160 tons took?
A. Yes, say it was a space like this room, there will be
coal going down the sides and also at the forward end, and
the hatch would be here (indicating), probably where the
desk is, and the coal would run down to the hatch about
4 feet clear of the hatch.
[fol. 390] Q. That is the forward end of the hatch?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What is the coal against forward of the hatch?
A. Against the wood bulkhead.
Q. And how high up—how far down did the pile come
that was against the wooden bulkhead from the next deck?
A. I should say 3 or 4 feet.
Q. With reference to your inspection of the coal did you
go in that space again yourself before they loaded the
coal?
A. No, not that day.
Q. Prior to loading coal in No. 3 between decks what was
the last time you personally went into No. 3 between decks?
A. On the evening previous.
Q. Previous to what?
A. Previous to the day we started loading.
Q. You started loading the next morning?
A. Yes, sir.
20—809
306
Q. I think the logbook shows it was August 25th.
A. Am I right about that, Mr. J ones?
Mr. Jones: I think so.
Q. I think it shows August 25th. Were you there while
the coal was being loaded?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were you?
A. On deck.
Q. Which deck?
A. On the main deck, where we were taking the coal in.
Q. The weather deck?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did they take the coal from?
A. From the lighter.
Q. Where was the lighter?
A. Alongside of the ship.
Q. And how did they get it out of the lighter into the
hold?
A. By buckets.
[fol. 391] Q. Well, how did they get it in the buckets?
Just describe the operation from the time——
A. Well, there would be men on the lighter filling these
buckets, and when each bucket was filled it would be swung
over and the contents of the bucket put into a wheelbarrow
and wheeled over the hatch and dumped into the hatch.
Q. Before that operation téok place had they trimmed
any of what they called the old coal?
A. No, they hadn’t trimmed any.
Q. Who was in charge of the coal trimmers, do you know?
A. Well, I don’t know the man by name, but he was the
man that had been there on several—well, pretty well all
the time I have been chief, the same man.
Q. He was the foreman of the coal trimmers?
A. He was the foreman of the coal trimmers, yes, sir.
Q. How long did they continue to dump this coal into the
No. 3 between decks before anything happened?
A. Well, they would get it up into a pile and send the
trimmers in.
Q. Did you see the trimmers go down?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What does a trimmer do?
307
A. He removes the coal from the heap and throws it as
far back as he can until they fill the space up.
' Q, The trimmers were down there that OTHING, were
they?
A. They were down there, yes, sir.
Q. And the process of trimming that new coal would put
the new coal where, with reference to the old coal pile?
A. Well, it would fill the space up which had been worked
out and it would come on to the old coal, of course.
Q. Would there be any new coal in the after end of the
No. 3 between decks?
A. Oh, yes, there would be new coal there.
[fol. 392] Q. Would there be any new coal in the forward
end?
A. Not right forward, no.
Q. That would be on account of the shape of the pile?
A. Yes, sir, the slant, you see, would come down and
the coal would pass that.
Q. Mr. Oxtoby, something happened that morning, didn’t
it, with respect to the condition of the coal?
A. Well, the foreman came to me——
Q. What foreman are you talking about?
A. The foreman of the coal trimmers, and he said that
the coal was hot.
Q. Is that all he said?
A. No, he said it was burning the men’s boots.
By the Court: E
Q. Which coal was that?
A. He said the coal.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Did you ask him which coal, or do you recall?
A. I do not recall.
Q. What did you say to him?
Mr. Jones: Objected to, what this witness said to the
foreman.
- Mr. Keating: I think it is very important that your
Honor should have this story.
The Court: I think it is part of the res geste and admis-
sible. I overrule the objection, with exception.
aoa et
a eta ee et
aeewy
<3
308
Q. What did you say, Mr. Oxtoby?
A. Well, I said, as near as I can recollect, I said the coal
would be all right and carry on with it.
Q. How long did that conversation take?
A. Not over two minutes. «
[fol. 393] Q. Did you go down in the No. 3 between decks
then?
A. Not just at that time, no.
Q. Did you go down later?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you report at the time it happened your conversa-
tion with the foreman of the coal trimmers to the captain?
A. No, sir.
Q. To whom did you report it?
A. Nobody.
Q. Why not?
A. Because I thought the coal was quite all right. I had
no reason to report to anybody.
Q. When did you expect that all the coal in No. 3 be-
tween decks would come out?
A. In about 15 days’ time.
Q. You took a chance, didn’t you, then?
A. I took a chance—a chance in my opinion the coal was
all right and it was quite all right to go home with.
Q. Now, Mr. Oxtoby, do you make a report in writing at
the end of each voyage in Hull?
A report goes in every voyage.
. For each voyage?
. For each voyage.
Made out by you?
. Made out by myself.
And to whom does that report go?
. To the Superintending Engineer.
Who was that?
. Mr. Brackenbury.
And that is done for each voyage?
. That is done for each voyage.
. Did you hand in a report for the June voyage?
. Yes, sir.
Mr. Keating: Now, if the Court please, those reports are
arriving tomorrow on the ‘‘Majestic’’, and I will furnish
them to Mr. Jones. I am sorry they are not here now, but
rOrPOrPOPOPOPE D>
309
the chief will be here and Mr. Jones will have an opportunity
to see them and question this witness about them.
- The Court: All right.
[fol. 394] Q. Did you see Mr. Brackenbury on the ship
following the June voyage in Hull?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he there several times?
A. He was there several times, yes, sir.
Q. Do you remember what the occasion was of his com-
ing aboard?
A. He was getting plans for the refrigerating repairs
that I am talking about.
Q. He was there a good deal?
A. Oh, yes, he was there on two or three occasions.
Q. Now, Mr. Oxtoby, who is it in the company, the Eller-
man’s Wilson Line, this English corporation, who is it to
whom you, as chief engineer, make your reports?
A. Mr. Brackenbury.
Q. Has he charge of all the engineers?
A. He has charge of all the engineers, of the engineering
office.
Q. And you make a report to him how often?
A. At the end of every voyage.
Q. Do you make any report in New York?
A. Yes, I sometimes send a letter home to him from New
York.
Q. Do you make a report to anybody in New York?
A. Oh, no. .
Q. But you sometimes write him?
A. I think it is a duty of the engineers to write him, and
the letter gets home and he knows what work we have had
to do, see.
Q. Mr. Oxtoby, at any time while you were chief engi-
neer of this vessel did you receive instructions in writing
from Mr. Brackenbury about coal?
A. Yes——
Q. Don’t tell us what it is. Have you got the papers that
were given to you by Mr. Brackenbury?
A. No, I haven’t.
Q. What became of them?
A. They were lost with the ship.
[fol. 395] Q. In New York Harbor?
A. Yes, sir.
310
Q. I show you, Mr, Oxtoby, a document, and ask you what
that is? (Showing witness paper.)
. That is a letter which I received, sir.
" You mean it is a copy of a letter?
_ It is a copy of a letter that I received.
From Mr. Brackenbury?
From Mr. Brackenbury.
How did you receive it, through the mail?
No, he gave it into my hand.
When?
In Hull.
When?
. November, 1925.
Do you recognize that as a copy?
Exactly.
The original you say—what happened to it?
. That was lost with the ship.
. Did you lose anything else?
. My books and my clothes, everything, practically.
Mr. Keating: I ask that it be marked in evidence.
(It is marked Exhibit G of this date.)
Q. Did you read these instructions?
A. Absolutely, yes.
Q. You had them on board at the time the ‘‘Galileo’’ was
lost? ;
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I call your attention, Mr. Oxtoby, to the concluding
paragraph. First of all, this is dated October 19, 1925. ‘At
the end of each year and each succeeding year please send
in a statement as to the longest time any coal has been on
board at the time of loading and also the amount;’’ did you
do that?
A. No, I didn’t do that.
Q. Why not?
A. Because soon after receiving that letter we went up to
[fol. 396] Newcastle and we went into the drydock there,
and the bunkers were thoroughly repaired and painted and
all the coal was moved out of them.
Q. When did that operation finish?
A. That finished in December of the same year, 1925.
rPOPOPOPOPOePePoPer
311
Q. And when did you leave on your first trip after those
repairs?
' A. I think the middle of December that year, after com-
pleting those repairs.
Q. And why didn’t you send a report in compliance with
that?
A. Because I knew that the officer knew, and Mr. Bracken-
bury knew, that everything had been cleaned out of the
bunkers.
Q. Was eveiything cleaned out of the ship then?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did they do?
They repaired them where required and painted them
A.
up.
Q. And did other repairs to the ship?
A. And did other repairs to the ship, yes, sir.
By the Court:
Q. In New York in August, 1926, was any of the new sup-
ply of coal put into the permanent bunkers?
A. Oh, yes, sir; yes, sir.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Do you know how much coal was loaded in the per-
manent bunkers here in New York in August, 1926, approx-
imately?
A. Well, if you would give me a little piece of paper I
could soon make it out.
(Witness is handed a piece of paper.)
Q. Do you want these exhibits too?
A. No, sir. I think there would be about 470 tons go into
the permanent bunkers.
(fol. 397] Q. In August, 1926?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any other part of the ship, in August, 1926,
that you could have removed the 160 tons that remained in
the No. 3 between decks to?
A. Was there any other place in the ship?
Q. Yes.
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Where could you have put it?
312
A. In the shelter deck.
Q. What shelter deck?
A. No. 2 shelter deck.
Q. And where else could you have put it?
A. Well, I don’t know; I have nothing to do with cargo
or anything like that, but I know that place was clear of any
cargo.
Q. Was there anything to stop you putting it in the per-
manent bunkers?
A. It wouldn’t have gone in the permanent bunkers.
Q. I beg pardon?
A. All that coal wouldn’t have gone into the permanent
bunkers.
Q. I am talking about the old coal.
A. Oh, I beg your pardon; it could have gone into the
permanent bunkers.
Q. Why didn’t you put it there?
A. I didn’t see any necessity for shifting it.
Q. There is a space on these reports for shifting, isn’t
there, Exhibits E and F?
A. Yes; if I had wanted the coal moved I could have got
it moved.
Q. How would you have gone about that?
A. Seen the captain and told him I wanted labor to move
the coal.
Q. Have you done that i in the past?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Who was there in New York either on the ship or any-
wheres else, in August, 1926, that had anything to say about
{fol. 398] your bunkers besides you yourself?
A. Nobody, nobody.
Q. How much coal do you burn a day at sea?
A. About 42 ton.
Q. And how long is the ordinary passage from Hull to
New York?
A. Well, you can average it, say 15 to 16 days.
Q. Each way?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you burn any coal in port?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. At each end?
A. Yes.
Q. How much coal does your steamer consume in a round
voyage?
' 313
A. Well, about 1400; between 1400 and 1500 tons.’
Q. Now, I observe that on leaving New York on July 2,
1926, according to Exhibit E, you had 1810 tons of bunker
coal on board, is that right? ( Showing witness paper.)
A. Oh, yes, that is right.
Q. Now, how long would it take you—how many voyages
—to completely exhaust that coal if no other coal was taken
on board?
A. Well, according to that you see it would take about a
little over a voyage, wouldn’t it, say burning 1500 ton, a
little over a voyage.
Q. Now, when did you expect that all the bunkers in No. 3
between decks would be removed from that space?
A. In the No. 3 between decks?
Q. Yes.
A. We left on the 28th of August, I expected that they
would be out before the end of September, in a fortnight’s
time.
By the Court:
Q. You didn’t expect to burn that on the ‘*Galileo’’, did
you?
A. No, sir.
(fol. 399] Cross-examination.
By Mr. Jones:
Q. By whom are you employed now?
A. Beg pardon, sir?
Q. Who are you working for?
A. The Wilson Line.
Q. The same people you were working for at the time this
fire occurred?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you got home did you tell anybody about this
matter of what the stevedores told you here in New York?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever tell anybody before you told us today
about it?
A. Beg pardon?
Q. Who was the first person you ever told about it?
: A. About—— |
314
Q. About what the stevedores told you about their feet
being hot when they got on this coal; who was the first per-
son you ever mentioned that to?
A. Mr. Brackenbury.
Q. Who is he?
A. The superintending engineer.
Q. When did you mention it to him?
A. On the voyage over.
Q. What voyage over?
A. From England.
Q. Well, now—is that the same as that Mr. Brackenbury
that you have told us about?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You mentioned it to Mr. Brackenbury on the voyage
over?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he on the ship with you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What ship?
A. The ‘‘Sythia’’.
Q. The ‘‘Sythia’’?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was shortly after this disaster that you told Mr.
Brackenbury about it?
A. No, sir.
Q. I thought you just told me that?
Mr. Keating: No, he said on tlie voyage to America.
[fol. 400] Q. You never told him about it until this time?
A. No.
Q. You kept that as a deep secret in your own breast up
to that time?
A. Yes, sir, I did.
. And you felt very guilty about it, didn’t you?
No.
You feel guilty about it now, don’t you?
No.
. You don’t feel that you were grossly negligent?
No.
. You don’t think that had anything to do with the fire?
. I didn’t think that the coal would have got on fire.
Q. Do you think now that your paying no heed to the fact
that the coal was hot had anything to do with the fire?
>POPOPOPO
315
A. No; in my estimation the coal was perfectly all right.
_ Q. And you don’t think today that that had anything to
do with the fire, do you?
A. Well, I don’t know.
Q. Mr. Brackenbury fired you when you told him about
this, did he?
A. No,
Q. He has still got you in his employ?
A. Beg pardon?
Q. (Repeated.) He has still got you in his employ?
A. Yes. :
Q. And you never mentioned that fact to a soul until you
mentioned it to Mr. Brackenbury while you were coming
over from England on the ‘‘Sythia’’ to come here to testify
in this case?
A. No.
Q. Do you know that that would be an interesting subject
to anybody interested in this case?
A. I hardly get that question.
Q. Did you know that that would be an interesting subject
to anybody who has anything to do with this case?
A. Oh, yes, sir.
[fol. 401] Q. And notwithstanding that fact, you kept it
secret for three years?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And never mentioned it to a soul?
A. No.
Q. Didn’t you know that it was your duty to report the
facts to the people who had a right to know about them?
A. No, I didn’t think it was my duty to report anything
like that.
Q. What makes you think it was your duty to report it
to Mr. Brackenbury on your way over her- to testify in
this case?
A. Well, I should have to testify that Magarelli had
spoken of it, so I must speak the truth.
Q. Didn’t you know that Mr. Brackenbury would want
to know what the facts were immediately the thing oc-
curred?
A. Well, certainly, I should have told him.
Q. Why didn’t you tell him?
A. Because I thought the coal was all right, and that it
was perfectly all right for me to leave New York with it.
316
Q. Well, you knew that the stevedores didn’t agree with
you in that opinion?
A. The stevedores?
Q. Yes.
A. I only had two minutes’ conversation with him; I
didn’t know whether he agreed with me or not.
Q. Who were the people that talked to you? Wasn’t it
trimmers or stevedores, or what?
A. The foreman of the stevedores.
Q. What was his name?
A. Magarelli.
Q. He came to you and told 3 you that the coal was hot to
his feet, and you brushed him aside and told him to go
about his business, ‘‘I have no time to pay attention to
you,”’ is that what happened?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you kept that secret for a period of three years,
[fol. 402] never told Mr. Brackenbury about it, and never
told Mr. Keating about it, and never told anyone about it
until you got on the steamer to come over here to testify
in this case, and you made a confession to Mr. Bracken-
bury, is that what happened?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, Mr. Oxtoby, I want to be quite certain that I
fully understand your position. What you say today is
that the heating of the coal didn’t have anything to do with
the fire?
A. I didn’t know what caused the fire.
Q. You don’t say anything one way or the other about it?
A. No, I don’t know anything about what caused the fire.
Q. But you did think when you came over on the steamer
that it was time for you to make a confession to Mr. Brack-
enbury about what this foreman told you?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And you had never made any such confession until
that time?
A. No.
Q. Now, you have spoken of this American coal as being
fine. It has been stipulated in this case between Mr. Keat-
ing and myself that it was what we call run of the mine
ocal?
A. Yes.
317
Q. You know run of the mine coal consists of fines and
large lumps?
A. Yes.
Q. And this coal did consist of fines and large lumps?
A. Yes, there were some lumps.
Q. There were quite considerable large lumps?
A. No.
Q. Did you make any complaint about its being all fines?
A. No, never.
Q. And do you know when you get coal, as a chief engi-
neer, that is all fines, you always make complaints about
it, don’t you?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know what causes heating of coal?
A. Well, the oxygen getting into it.
[fol. 403] Q. Do you know anything about the form of
ventilation you should give to coal?
A. Yes.
Q. What?
A. You should give it surface ventilation.
Q. Give it surface ventilation?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you know that Lloyds requires that you should
have two ventilators, one in the forward part of the com-
partment and one in the after part of the compartment, to
properly ventilate coal, don’t you?
A. I know there should be two ventilators.
Q. Was it never called to your attention by Mr. Brack-
enbury?
A. No.
Q. The Board of Trade circular issued in March, 1907,
page 44 of Mr. Stoek’s pamphlet, Exhibit 19 in this case,
states—I am reading from page 44: “In order to secure
adequate surface ventilation at least two ventilators should
be provided for each hold or compartment in which coal is
stowed. These ventilators should be of wrought iron or
wrought steel fitted with cowls and placed at opposite ends
of the compartment, or as far apart as circumstances will
permit.’’ Do you know of that requirement?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know anything about that regulation of the
Board of Trade?
A. Yes, sir, I have read it.
318
Q. And you knew that the compartment in which you had
to place this coal, which was part of the permanent bunkers
of the ship, supplied you by the owners, had no such venti-
lation?
A. I said they had two ventilators; they had two ven-
tilators.
Q. Are they at opposite ends of the compartment?
A. Opposite ends of the compartment?
Q. Yes.
A. No, they are not.
[fol. 404] Q. And you knew then that the permanent
bunker space of this ship was not ventilated—you told Mr.
Keating that this was a permanent bunker space?
A. No, sir; no, sir.
Q. I have it in my notes and I took it down very care-
fully and I will refer to the notes when they are written
out. I will put that aside for the moment. We will come
back to it later when we get the notes. Mr. Brackenbury
knew that you used this compartment for the carriage of
coal, didn’t he, for he came aboard your ship when you
were in Hull?
A. Yes.
Q. He went all over your ship?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You made reports to him?
A. Yes, but not about the bunker coal.
Q. He saw the places where you carried the coal, didn’t
he?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And this compartment did not have ventilation as re-
quired by the rules of the Board of Trade, did it?
A. Well, it had two ventilators, but they were not op-
posite to one another—they were opposite to each other.
Q. But they were not at opposite ends of the compart-
ment, were they?
A. No.
By the Court:
Q. How far were they from the ends?
A. Well, I think 23 feet from the forward end.
Q. What do you mean by the end?
A. The forward bulkhead.
319
Q. How far were they from the side of the ship?
A. About 8 feet, as near as I can say, from the sides of
the ship.
Mr. Keating: The ship was 50 feet wide, sir.
[fol.405] The Court: Is it your contention that onds
mean forward and aft?
Mr. Jones: Yes, sir.
The Court: Not forward of aft?
Mr. Jones: Yes, sir.
Mr. Keating: There is nothing in that, for +he compart-
ment was wider than it was long; it was 33 feet long by 50
feet wide, and Mr. Jones is reading from a pamphlet which
has been supplemented by the pamphlet of the Board of
Trade in 1917.
Mr. Jones: You refused to let me put it in.
Mr. Keating: We are prepared to let this go into evi-
dence.
Mr. Jones: I offer Exhibit 17 for Identification in evi-
dence.
(It is marked Exhibit 17 of this date.)
By Mr. Jones:
Q. The only thing that you ever had called to your atten-
tion with respect to the ventilation of coal is that there
should be adequate surface ventilation?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You never had anything else called to your attention?
A. That the air should not have to go through the coal.
Q. You had nothing whatever to do with the bulkhead in
that ship?
A. No, sir, not making it.
Q. And you had nothing to do with whether it was air-
tight or not—the chief mate, it is his business?
A. He said it was air-tight.
Q. But that is his business?
A. Yes, sir.
(fol. 406] Q. And you have nothing whatever to do with
making them air-tight or not making them air-tight, or any-
thing about it, have you?
A. No, I have not.
Q. But you do know that they should be made air-tight?
_A. As air-tight as a bulkhead can possibly be made air-
t.
Q. And you know they should be absolutely air-tight,
don’t you?
A. They couldn’t be.
Q. You can caulk a bulkhead?
A. Oh, yes, you could caulk a wood bulkhead, but I don’t
think you could make it absolutely air-tight.
Q. You don’t know?
A. I don’t think so.
Q. You don’t know, do you?
A. No.
Q. Now, you said the wooden bulkhead in the shelter deck
was practically the same as in the between decks; that is
correct, isn’t it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I show you Exhibit 7 and ask you if the planking
shown on that exhibit isn’t similar to the planking which
was used in the between decks, on the bulkhead that was in
the between decks?
A. Have you got the exhibit for the between deck bulk-
head?
Q. All I have got is—it was burned away—there is only
one plank left in one of these pictures, that is all I can show
you. ‘
A. Well, the planks were the same, as far as I can re-
member, the bulkheads were the same.
Q. The planks were similar to those as shown in that
picture; I am showing you now Exhibit No. 7?
A. My. recollection isn’t clear as to what kind the bulk-
heads were, but I think they were the same.
Q. As shown in the picture No. 7?
A. Yes.
Q. Now I have written down here and I endeavored to
take what you said, as nearly as I could get it, and I have
[fol. 407] written here, the space aft of wooden bulkhead,
part of the permanent bunkers of the ship—do you say that
is not so?
The Court: You are mistaken about that, Mr. Jones, I
am quite sure. If I am not mistaken, it was when I was
asking him.
321
Mr. Jones: Yes, sir.
The Court: I got the impression from him that the per-
‘manent bunkers of the ship were to the rear of this space
in the No. 3 between decks, that is my distinct impression;
it confirmed my previous impression, and I didn’t have the
slightest idea that he intended to tell me that the No. 3 be-
tween decks was a part of the permanent bunker, that he
was distinguishing between that space and that space in the
rear.
Mr. Jones: As long as we are all agreed that that isn’t
so, I can’t press it for the moment, but I was very much
surprised when I made that note. But we want to look at
his testimony and clear up that point, for I think that he
agreed that the space in the between decks where the coal
was placed was not a part of the permanent bunkers of the
ship.
The Witness: No, it was not.
Q. You said you had been on this ship since 1908?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Had that bulkhead been in that ship ever since you
had been on the ship?
A. The after bulkhead had, yes, sir.
(fol. 408] Q. I mean the wooden bulkhead at the forward
end of No. 3 between decks?
A. No, I can’t tell you that.
Q. You don’t know when it was put there?
A. No, I can’t tell you.
Q. You don’t know?
A. No.
Q. But it had been there for a long time?
A. Possibly, for cargo purposes, or something of that
kind, I don’t know.
Q. Now, you usually carried grain in your lower hold,
didn’t you?
A. Yes.
Q. That was the regular trade that your ship was in, to
carry grain in these lower holds?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. So any bulkheads which you had in your lower holds
were grain-tight?
A. Yes, sir.
21—809
322
Q. And built in accordance with the regulation for bulk-
heads for carrying grain?
A. Well, that isn’t my part of the play, I don’t know it.
Q. But you assume it?
A. I assume it.
Q. How do you discharge grain at Hull?
A. Well, it is taken over by bags, the bags are filled, and
it is over on the top deck and dumped over the side.
Q. You have no suction elevators?
A. There are some, but it is not usually discharged by
them.
Q. You have no lighters that come alongside that are
equipped with suction apparatus?
A. No.
Q. In Hull you use the old-fashioned system of hoisting
it out of the hold with bags or baskets or some other ap-
pliance?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you hoist it out through the feeder or through the
square of the hatch?
A. Well, you are asking me something really that I am
[fol. 409] not conversant with, because I don’t know exactly
how it is discharged, but it comes out of the hold through
the hatch, I take it.
Q. You have been on the ship for almost 8 years?
A. Yes.
Q. The ship carried grain probably every time she went
out of this port, didn’t she?
A. She carried a lot of grain.
Q. She was one of the grain carriers?
A. Yes.
Q. And there was not a voyage that she made during
those years that she hadn’t grain on her?
A. A few.
Q. It would be probably a few voyages that she didn’t
have grain?
A. Very few.
Q. And you never paid any attention to how they dis-
charged that grain?
A. Only through the hatchways.
Q. Isn’t it a fact that you used no coal out of the between
decks or the shelter deck on any of your voyages either
in June or in August, 1926?
323
A. We used the coal out of the shelter deck, so much of
it, and so much out of the between decks in J une, 1926.
; Which voyage?
A. After we left here in June.
Q. Now, will you just tell us what is the practical
method you used in firing your ship? You have what you
call side bunkers, haven’t you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you have stokers?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you have coal passers?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Tell us what happens. Does the coal passer go
through the bunker to get coal and pass it to the stoker,
and the stoker passes it into the furnace?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where does he get it from?
A. At whatever hold we are working from.
[fol.410] Q. If it is in the shelter deck does the coal
passer go up to the shelter deck and fill a wheelbarrow full
of coal and wheel it to some hatch and dump it down?
A. Yes.
Q. Notwithstanding he has coal in the side pocket just
by his hand?
A. Whichever bunker we are working from he dumps it
from that into the nearest place he can come to the stoke-
hole.
Q. Don’t you know that you work your side bunkers
first?
- No, not always.
. Didn’t you on this June voyage?
. Didn’t we work the side bunkers?
Yes,
. We worked the shelter deck too.
When did you work the shelter deck?
. That I can’t say; some part of the voyage.
Have you logbook?
No, I haven’t.
What became of your logbook?
. It was lost with the ship.
Your smooth log as well as your rough log?
Everything.
POPOPOPOpPOpDOSD
324
Q. Your logbook would show which bunkers you worked,
wouldn’t it?
A. Well, I don’t think it would, not particularly, which
we are working; no, it wouldn’t.
2. ena you put down which bunkers you are working?
. No.
Q. How could you get the coal from the shelter deck to
the fire room without going through the permanent
bunkers?
A. Well, there was a hatch situated right over the chute
and the chute was in the athwartship bunker and it would
drop through the chute right into the stokehole.
Q. On the floor of the stokehole?
A. Yes.
Q. In front of where the men were working?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Right in front of the boilers?
A. Yes, sir, on the stokehole place.
[fol.411] Q. What is the distance between the fire room
bulkhead and the boilers?
A. I should think 8 feet.
Q. And you say you dumped the coal right down that 8
feet?
A. No, the chute came level with the bulkhead and you
would fill the chute up and it would gradually run down
as the fireman wanted it to go.
Q. Where was that chute? ~
A. In the athwartship bulkhead, lower bulkhead.
Q. Athwartship lower bulkhead?
A. Athwartship lower bulkhead.
Q. So I am right in saying that the chute emptied itself
into the bunker?
A. It was entirely separate from the bunker, was the
chute, a built casing inside the athwartship bulkhead.
Q. It was inside the athwartship bunker?
A. Yes.
Q. And that bunker is down in the bottom of the ship?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. So I am right in saying that in order to get the coal
from the shelter deck to the fire room you have to dump it
into the chute, which empties it into the fire room?
A. Yes, sir. The between deck bunkers, you have to let
325
it go so far down and the top of the chute will be bare, and
you can put the coal down. ~
Q. I show you Exhibit No. 17 and ask you if that paper
was ever called to your attention by Mr. Brackenbury?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, you told I think either the Court or Mr. Keat-
ing, that you expected the coal would be out of the between
decks in a fortnight, that is the coal that you took away in
August?
A. Yes.
Q. You knew that that coal wag being taken over for the
[fol. 412] use of one of the other steamers, didn’t you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you knew that wouldn’t be used by the ‘‘Galileo”’
at all?
A. No, we shouldn’t use that coal.
Q. And that all of the coal that was in the No. 3 between
decks and in the No. 3 shelter decks, which was on the
“‘Galileo’’ when she left New York August 28, 1926, was
there not for use on the ‘‘Galileo”’ at all, that is right?
A. I understood so; there was plenty of other coal.
Q. And that coal was for the use of another steamship?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you never intended to use it, nor did anyone on
your ship intend to use it?
No, sir.
Q. That was pursvant to instructions which you received
from your owners?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The coal which was supplied you here you knew was
supplied by your shore agents?
A. Yes, sir, the Morrisdale Coal Company.
Q. And it was ordered by Ellerman’s Wilson Line, Inc.,
New York?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And if you thought that that was improper coal, the
second lot you got, you would certainly have reported it
to somebody?
A. I hardly get you.
Q. If you thought that that coal was poor coal which
your Ellerman’s Wilson, Inc. had bought——
A. Yes.
Q. And the people who supplied it were cheating your
owner, you would have said something about it, wouldn’t
you?
A. That was my duty, yes, sir.
[fol. 413] Direct examination.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Mr. Oxtoby, when did you first confess to me that the
story about Magarelli was true?
A. When I arrived in New York.
Q. You had previously denied to me that it was true,
hadn’t you?
A. That is right.
Q. And I told you that you had to come into court and
tell the truth, didn’t I?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I took an affidavit when you were in my office?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, what else did you tell me? You told me this
was on your conscience, didn’t you?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many times prior to October, 1929, when you
made this affidavit which I am going to ask to have marked
in evidence, had you told me the Magarelli story was false?
A. I couldn’t tell you.
Q. Many times, wasn’t it?
A. Several times, yes, sir.
Q. And you came into my office on October 29th with Mr.
Brackenbury?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you told me that you had lied to me?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I told you you would have to come before this
Court and tell the truth, didn’t I?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And before your God, Mr. Oxtoby, is this story about
Magarelli true or is it not true?
A. It is true.
Mr. Keating: I ask to have the affidavit made to me on
October 29th marked as an exhibit in this case.
327
Mr. Jones : I object to that, if your Honor please; we have
this man’s testimony. .
(fol.414] Mr. Keating: I want it very clear what this
story is.
The Court: How do you justify this offer?
Mr. Keating: Mr. Jones has suggested perhaps that this
story about Magarelli is made up. It is a painful thing for
me to state what happened, but the first I knew about the |
story was on August 29th, before the trial
Mr. Jones: You know me too well to think that I could
suggest any such thing about you, Mr. Keating.
The Court: I don’t see how this affidavit could in any
way verify Mr. Jones’ contention in reference to anyone
other than yourself, and he makes no such suggestion as
to you.
Mr. Jones: No, I never made any such suggestion.
The Court: I sustain the objection with exception.
It may be marked for identification.
(The affidavit is marked for Identification, Exhibit H
of this date.)
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Had Mr. Brackenbury in England asked you whether
this story of Magarelli was true?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what did you say to him?
A. I said it was not true.
Q. When did you first admit, Mr. Oxtoby, that the story
was true?
A. As I have testified, when we were coming across from
England.
[fol. 415] Q. How did you come to make the confession
then, after lying about it all these years?
A. Well, I knew something would have to come out.
Q. You knew you had to go on this stand under oath?
A. That is right.
Q. That is what was on your mind, wasn’t it?
A. Yes.
Recross-examination.
By Mr. Jones:
Q. When did Mr. Brackenbury first ask you about this
story?
ee “
A. He didn’t ask me about it; I told him about it.
Q. Well, as I understood you when I was questioning you,
you told me that the first time you told him anything about
it was when you were coming over here to testify in this
case?
A. I confessed then that Magarelli had made the state-
ment, but previous to that he had asked me on several oc-
casions whether Magarelli’s story was true.
Q. When did he first ask you in Hull, whether Magarelli’s
statement was true?
A. I can’t tell you.
Q. Was it shortly after this disaster?
A. No. I can’t remember when he asked me.
Q. And you haven’t been fired by Mr. Brackenbury to-
day, after you have confessed today to a lie and what you no
doubt will concede was gross negligence—you haven’t been
fired by Mr. Brackenbury yet?
A. Well, we are on the case. I don’t know what will hap-
pen to me afterwards.
Q. And because you are a witness in the case he is not
firing you?
A. I can’t tell you.
[fol. 416] Gus Macareu, being duly sworn and examined
as a witness for the respondent, testifies :
Direct examination.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Mr. Magarelli, what is your business?
A. Longshoreman.
Q. A little louder.
A. Longshoreman.
Q. How long have you been a longshoreman?
A. 17 years.
Q. For whom do you work?
A. F. Jarka & Company.
Q. And are they contracting stevedores?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you a laborer or a foreman?
A. A foreman.
nama
Q. How long have you been a foreman?
A. For 7 years.
Q. And are you a foreman of some particular kind of
stevedores?
A. I got only the coal end of it.
Q. You are a foreman of coal trimmers?
A. The coal trimmers.
Q. Mr. Magarelli, do you remember a ship called the
‘*Galileo’’?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you recall having been aboard of her in August,
1926?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What were you doing on board at that time?
A. Unload the coal in the ship.
Q. Do you remember the coal that was put in No. 3 be-
tween decks and No. 3 shelter deck?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you there when that was being done?
A. I was there, yes, sir.
Q. Did your men trim any of the coal in the No. 3 between
decks?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many men did you send down into that space?
A. Eight.
[fol.417] Q. And was that in the morning or in the after-
noon?
A. That was in the morning.
Q. Did you go down with them at first?
A. No.
Q. Now, in the course of the morning something hap-
pened?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was it?
A. There was a man that trimmed the coal—eight men, I
have, that trimmed the coal in the between decks, and so
they started to kick and holler, it was too warm down there,
and so one of the head men on that gang come up on deck
and told me, he says, ‘Those men down below they can’t
work no more, one of my men fell out, he get sick.’’
Q. Did he say anything else?
A. He says, ‘‘The coal, it is too warm.”’
ee
—- s.r,” ror rrr rr
t did you do then?
I went down in the hatch m ,
” And where did you go when you went down?
. In the between decks.
0. 3?
o. 3, yes.
what did you do when you got down there?
en I got down there I felt the coal.
ill you describe what the coal felt like? Did you
;
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A. Well, I came down myself and I see it was so warm
below and I felt the coal, and when I felt the coal the coal
was warm.
Q. How warm was it?
A. I can’t say how warm it was, but it was warm so that
all the men could stay there only 10 or 15 minutes to work.
Q. Why couldn’t they stay longer?
A. Because the coal was too warm.
Q. What did you do?
[fol. 418] A. Well, I told my men to work 10 or 15 min-
utes each, 4 and 4, 15 minutes to work and 15 minutes to
stay in the air.
Q. Did you come up on deck?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see anybody on deck?
A. I saw the chief engineer.
Q. That is the man who has just testified?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have any conversation with him?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you say to him?
A. I says, ‘‘Chief, my men be kicking there down below,
it is warm, and they can’t stay down below.’’ He says,
‘‘What is the matter?” I says, ‘“The coal is very hot.’’
Q. And what did he say?
A. Well, he don’t pay no attention to me, just said the
coal was all right.
Q. He said the coal he used was all right?
A. Yes.
Q. How long did that conversation take?
A. About two minutes.
Q. And then they went on loading the coal?
A. Yes.
Q. Did the chief stand around there when they were load-
ing?
A. He would stay there for a while and then he would go
away.
Q. And when did he first tell you that story, Mr. Maga-
relli?
A. I can’t remember, about a year ago, something like
that.
Cross-examination.
By Mr. Jones:
Q. When you were speaking about the hold being warm,
which lot of coal are you talking about, the coal that was
already there or the coal that you were going to put in?
A. The coal that were in.
[fol. 419] Q. You mean the coal that was there before?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any smoke you could see or gas you could
smell?
A. I could smell the gas over the side, there was gas come
on the coal boat.
Q. Now, on which side of No. 3 between decks was the
coal, the hoister, could you form any opinion?
A. Well, that was about the middle of the hatch, it was on
my right, my right side.
Q. Your right side. If you were standing looking for-
ward toward the bow of the ship your right side would be
the bow of the ship?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. If you were standing looking back tuward the stern
of the ship your right side would be the stern of the ship.
Which way were you looking, toward the bow or the stern
when you say your right side?
A. The bow.
Q. So when you say on the right side, you mean on the
starboard side of the ship as well as your right side?
A. That is right.
Q. Now, was this heated coal in the forward or the after
end of the compartment?
332
A. Was it what?
Q. (Repeated.) Was this heated coal in the forward or
the after end of the compartment?
. Well, it was right in the middle.
You are employed by a man named Jarka?
Yes.
And he is employed by whom to do this work?
By Ellerman’s Wilson Line.
Did you make any report to Mr. Jarka about this?
No, sir.
. Did you make any report to anybody on the dock
about it?
A. Nobody but the chief engineer.
Q. You never said anything to the captain about it?
A. No.
[fol. 420] Q. How soon after this ship got afire and came
back here and was beached in the Hudson River, and every-
body saw it in the Hudson River, and there were pictures
in the paper, and everybody was talking about it, there was
quite a commotion——
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How soon after that did you tell anybody about the
coal being hot?
A. The first time that I went to the law office when he
called me.
Q. How soon after the occurrence did you tell anybody
about it? P
A. I can’t remember certainly the month or the day of
the year.
Q. Was it a year after the disaster?
A. No, two or three months afterwards.
Q. Two or three months afterwards was the first time
you said anything to anybody about it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. To whom did you mention it?
A. I don’t know.
Q. Did you go over to the Ellerman’s Wilson Line and
tell anybody about it?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Jarka?
A. He called me and asked me if I knew anything about
the coal, and I told him, he called me to the office.
CPOPOPop
a
Q. Which office?
—. The law office.
Q. When did you first mention it to Mr. Jarka?
A. When he seen me.
Q. When did you tell him that?
A. After two or three months.
Q. What was the first time you mentioned it to anybody,
two or three months?
A. Yes, sir; he took me——
Q. Took you to Ellerman’s Wilson Line’s office two or
three months after that? -
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then you told them all about it?
A. Then I told them all about it.
[fol. 421] Q. Who was there in the Ellerman’s Wilson
Line’s office when Mr. Jarka took you there on the first oc-
casion that you talked about this coal, who was there?
What gentleman was there that you talked to?
A. There were two or three fellows there in the main
office, that Mr. Georgie.
Q. Mr. Georgie?
A. Yes, that is all the name I know.
Q. You don’t know his last name?
A. I know Mr. Georgie very good, but I don’t know any-
body else.
Q. Is that his first name or his last name?
A. I don’t know.
Q. But everybody knew Mr. Georgie?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you describe him to us? What was his appear-
ance?
A. He was one of the head men in the office.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. And they brought you over to my office, did they, Mr.
Magarelli?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Jones:
Q. Now you tell me and tell Mr. Keating that it was a
year ago when you first went over to Mr. Keating?
A. Well, I don’t know which day or which year, because
I don’t take care of this business.
Q. I only want to know what the actual facts are, that
is the reason I am asking you these questions. You told
me that two months after this catastrophe——
A. Two or three months.
Q. Well, give it as much latitude as you wish, two or
[fol. 422] three months after the catastrophe, you went and
told Mr. Jarka——
A. He came to see me on the pier and asked me the
story of how they put the coal in.
Q. So Mr. Jarka came to see you?
A. Yes.
Q. And you and Mr. Jarka went to see Mr. Georgie, who
is in Ellerman’s Wilson Line’s office here in New York?
A. Yes.
Q. That was two or three months after the fire?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, I understood you to say that you first told Mr.
Keating about it and that you told me the same thing, about
a year ago, and now you say you went over to see Mr. Keat-
ing at the time you went to the Ellerman’s Wilson Line
office?
A. At the same time, yes.
———_
Joun H. Neate, being duly sworn and examined as a
witness for the respondent, testifies:
Direct examination.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Mr. Neale, what is your position in life?
A. Vice-President and Director of Ellerman’s Wilson
Line of New York, Inc.
Q. How many years have you been employed by the
Ellerman’s Wilson Line of New York, Inc.?
A. Since it was in session, April 21, 1921.
Q. Are they incorporated under any law of one of our
states?
A. Yes, sir, Maryland.
—
335
Q. It is a Maryland corporation?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And what is their relation to the Ellerman’s Wilson
Line of Hull?
A. New York agent, attending to the vending of cargoes,
the collection of freights, supplying stores, and so forth.
[fol. 423] Q. Who owns the stock of Ellerman’s Wilson
Line of New York, Inc.?
A. Ellerman’s Wilson Line, Ltd., of Hull.
Q. You are their New York agent?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know a concern called the Ellerman-Buckner
Steamship Company, Ltd.?
A. I know there is a concern of that name, yes, sir.
Q. Has Ellerman’s Wilson Line, New York, Inc., any con-
nection with that company?
A. No, sir, none whatsoever.
Q. Do you know who the agents are in New York of
Ellerman & Buckner Company?
A. Norton Lilly & Company.
Q. Have you any connection with Norton Lilly & Com-
pany?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have they any connection with you?
A. No, sir.
Q. Has Ellerman & Buckner Company anything to do
with the Ellerman’s Wilson Line, New York, Inc.?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you anything to do with the Ellerman & Buck-
ner Steamship Company?
A. No, sir.
Q. Will you describe, Mr. Neale, just what the duties of
the Ellerman’s Wilson Line, New York, Inc., are with ref-
erence to your agency?
A. Well, we get a cable that a steamship has sailed, and
we make preparation for the berthing of the steamer and
advertising in the papers, and endeavor to book all the
cargo we can for her and get it alongside of the steamer.
Q. You engage the freight?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you engage the freight?
A. Yes, sir.
336
Q. Who issues the bills of lading?
A. We do.
Q. Who makes up the manifest?
A. We do.
Q. They are made up in the New York office?
A. In the New York office.
[fol. 424] Q. Who orders the ordinary ship’s stores?
A. The chief steward orders them.
Q. Do you have anything to do with that?
A. All we do is to check the bills against the signature of
the chief steward and the master, and pay the bills.
Q. You don’t actually order the stores yourself?
A. No.
Q. Now, prior to June, 1926, what were your duties with
respect to bunkers for the steamers?
A. Prior to June, 1921?
Q. If the steamer required any coal in New York did you
have any duties with respect to that?
A. Oh, we measure the space and see if he had coal
enough, and if he hadn’t, he would report to the captain
that he needed so many tons of coal, and those orders would
be transmitted to us by telephone, and we would com-
municate with the coal people and they would put it along-
side of the ship.
Q. Was it any part of your duty to tell how many tons
of coal was required?
A. No, sir, not for the ordinary run.
Q. Did you have anything to do where the captain and
the chief engineer put the coal on board the ship?
A. No, sir.
Q. Now, Mr. Neale, I show you Exhibits C and D, and
ask you to tell me whose initials are on those two cables?
A. E. L. 8. Sanderson.
Q. What was Mr. Sanderson’s connection with the Eller-
man’s Wilson Line, New York, Inc.?
A. He was the president.
Q. Is Mr. Sanderson alive?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know when he died?
A. He died September 9, 1927.
Q. Now, you were ordered to take this extra coal for
[fol. 425] transfer according to this cable for the ‘‘ Fran-
cisea’’?
; 337
ee
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It has been testified that Mr. Sanderson dealt with
that with the captain; you know nothing about it yourself,
do you?
A. No, sir.
Q. Does your New York office have anything to do with
the shipping of coal when it is required?
A. No, sir, except pay the bill of the stevedore when it
is rendered.
Q. Who decides that?
A. The chief engineer, —
Q. He has authority to require the shipping?
A. No; he reports to the captain that he requires so much
coal to be shipped, and they arrange that the stevedores
shall do the job.
Q. Does the New York office give any instructions on the
matter?
A. No, sir.
Q. Now suppose some repairs are required on the
steamer at this port, how is that matter dealt with?
A. If it is hull repairs, the captain, upon his arrival,
reports to the pier superintendent that he requires a man
to come down and see him, and if it is engine room repairs,
the engineer asks the captain to arrange that the man will
come down who takes care of the engine repairs.
Q. Does the New York office have anything to do with
the engine repairs?
A. No, sir. -
Q. What do you do in that case?
A. We simply pay the bill against their signature.
Q. Do the owners of the ‘‘Galileo’’—have they a marine
superintendent in New York?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have they a superintending engineer in New York?
A. No, sir.
Q. Who is in charge of the pier?
A. Their superintendent.
Q. What is his name?
A. H. J. Hicks.
Q. Has he any authority over the officers of the various
ships?
A. None whatsoever.
22—809
——
[fol. 426] Q. He lays out the cargo for these vessels, you
engage it?
A. We engage the freight and make up a list showing
what cargo is engaged, and that is sent over to the pier
superintendent, and upon receipt by him, he goes on board
the ship and consults with the master and chief officer as
to where the cargo should be loaded.
Q. Mr. Hicks is employed by the New York agency?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Has he any authority to order the master or chief
engineer to put some particular cargo in a particular place
on the ship?
A. No, sir.
Q. Is there a cargo plan prepared for the cargo that goes
aboard a ship?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was done for the ‘‘Galileo’’?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who prepares that plan?
A. A clerk on the pier. '
Q. Do you know his name?
A. Muller.
Q. Do you know a man—there was some suggestion here
the other day about a man named Isbister; do you know a
man by that name?
A. Yes, I know Captain Isbister.
Q. Has he any connection with your company?
A. No.
Q. Has he any connection with Ellerman’s Wilson Line,
Ltd., of Hull?
A. No.
Q. Do you know a man named Nevins?
A. I know a man named Nevins.
Q. Is he connected with your company in any way?
A. No, sir.
Q. Is he connected with the Ellerman’s Wilson Line,
Ltd., Hull?
A. No.
Q. Has he anything to do with your ships?
A. Nothing.
Q. Have you ever been a ship master?
A. No, sir.
339
[fol.427] Q. Marine engineer?
_ A, No, sir.
Q. Has Mr. Georgie ever been a ship master or ship
engineer?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you any technical people in the New York office?
A. No.
Q. What do you know about coal?
A. Nothing, except that it is needed for a ship.
Q. You are not a coal expert?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know whether the late Mr. Sanderson was a
technical man?
. He was not.
. He was a business man, was he not?
. Yes, sir.
- Now, do you make a report to Hull on each voyage?
. Yes, sir.
. Do you make an agent’s report?
. An agent’s report.
- Tell us what that report consists of?
. It gives the arrival of the steamer at the pier.
. It is a written report?
- A written report showing all particulars as to the
arrival of the ship here, and we sent it to Hull, and it shows
the gross earnings of the voyage.
Q. Now, besides that agent’s report what else do you
send?
A. We send a complete manifest, a stowage plan, and
dock sheets.
By the Court:
Q. From what information is the stowage plan made
out?
A. The cargo sheets which are made up on the pier.
As each shipment is delivered it is delivered with a dock
receipt, and the dock clerk gives the number and writes it
on the dock sheet and the measurement is estimated what
each particular consignment amounts to, both as to weight
and measurement.
(fol. 428] Q. Well, who fixes the place in the ship that a
certain shipment will occupy?
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>
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A. All the stowage is arranged by the captain and chief
officer with the assistance of Mr. Hicks, who shows them
what cargo is engaged.
Q. He shows what cargo is engaged?
A. Yes, sir, he gets a new list every day.
Q. And they determine where they will put it and tell
him?
A. That is it.
By Mr. Keating:
Q. Now, Mr. Neale, I show you what appears to be a
copy of the agent’s report for voyage 106, which is the
voyage from New York of July 2, 1926, which I have been
ealling the June voyage.
Mr. Keating: I would like to say to Mr. Jones in this
connection that the original of this report, which I think
Mr. Jones is entitled to, is on the way here and will be here
. = a
before the trial is ended; I had a cable this morning to —
that effect. I would like to have this go in temporarily,
with the understanding that the other actual original as
signed will be produced.
Q. As far as you know, is that a copy of the voyage re-
port which was made for what I call the June voyage?
(Handing witness paper.)
A. Yes, sir. a
Q. The original of that will be signed by whom?
A. By the president.
Q. By Mr. Sanderson?
A. Yes.
Mr. Keating: I ask that this be marked in evidence.
(It is marked Exhibit I of this date.)
[fol. 429] Q. Now, this agent’s report for June, Exhibit I,
was mailed when?
A. It was mailed the first mail after the steamer sailed.
Q. Do you send it with an accompanying letter?
A. No, sir.
Q. Just send the report?
A. It is shown on here that it is for Hull, and it is sent
with our stamp.
Q. And together with this you send the cargo plan?
A. One or some.
‘
Do you send one or some?
. Three copies.
Of the cargo plan?
. Yes, sir.
It went with this report?
In the same mail.
. Did you send a copy of the manifest?
. A copy of the manifest is always sent in the first
mail after the steamer sails.
Q. Is this a copy of what I would call the June voyage
manifest?
A. Yes, sir, the final copy.
Mr. Keating: I ask that it be marked.
(It is marked Exhibit J of this date.)
Q. Now, in addition to the manifest do you also send
what you have described as the pier sheets?
A. Yes, sir, the cargo sheets; they are given to the chief
officer,
Q. They are not sent to the owners?
A. No, he takes them with him together with a copy of
the stowage plan.
Q. On board the ship?
A. On board the ship.
Q. And those are what?
A. The cargo sheets—dock sheets.
Q. Now, I observe in looking at the June manifest that
[fol. 430] there is nothing said thereon about bunker coal.
Do you include bunker coal in the ship’s manifest?
A. No, sir.
Q. How is that carried?
A. Bunker coal is reported on the ship’s stores when
the vessel clears in the Custom House.
Q. It doesn’t appear on the regular, the ship’s manifest?
It appears as ship’s stores?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Ship’s stores is the technical name?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, I show you what purports to be a copy of the
agent’s report for voyage 107, ‘ ‘Galileo”’, leaving New
York August 28, 1926, and ask you whether, as far as you
know, that is a copy of the agent’s report for that voyage?
Or>Ooporpo
>
342
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Keating: I ask that it be marked in evidence.
(It is marked Exhibit K of this date.)
Q. Is there any accompanying letter with Exhibit K?
A. No, sir.
Q. You just send them the report?
A. That is all.
Q. Now, together with that report did you also send them
a copy of the ship’s manifest for the August voyage?
A. I don’t think that they were sent out.
Q. You don’t believe that you-sent that one?
A. No.
Q. Why was that?
A. Because the steamer returned and it was lost, the
papers would be required here by the cargo adjusters.
Q. The average adjusters?
A. The average adjusters.
[fol. 431] Mr. Keating: I ask that this manifest be placed
in evidence.
(It is marked Exhibit L of this date.)
Recess until 2:15 P. M.
Met pursuant to adjournment.at 2:15 P. M.
Present: As before.
Joun H. Neate resumed the stand.
Direct examination.
By Mr. Keating (continued) :
Q. Mr. Neale, I show you Exhibit K, which is the agent’s
report for the ‘‘Galileo’’ August voyage. Was that report
sent to Hull to the owners before or after the ship sailed?
A. These reports are always sent by the first mail
steamer after the steamer sails; they cannot be completed
until the steamer’s manifests are completed, for they
haven’t the earnings for the east voyage.
Q. You haven’t the coal either, have you?
A. No.
'
~-—4—
343
Q. I show you Exhibits E and F, which are the chief
engineer’s coal reports. Do those come into the New York
~ office?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When do they come in, before or after the steamer
sails?
A. After the steamer has sailed.
Q. Is that the first time you see them?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you get any other report than that for the coal?
A. No, sir.
Q. What do you keep them for, what do you do with
them?
A. We use them for checking purposes on the coal bills,
[fol. 432] and filling in these reports.
Q. For any other purpose?
A. That is about all.
Cross-examination.
By Mr. Jones:
Q. Mr. Neale, I assume from your answer to one of the
questions put to you by Mr. Keating that the Ellerman’s
Wilson Line, New York, Inc., was a corporation whose
stock was owned altogether by Ellerman’s Wilson Line,
Ltd., Hull. That is right, is it?
A. That is right.
Q. In other words, Ellerman’s Wilson Line, New York,
inc., is a corporation which is simply a subsidiary of the
Ellerman’s Wilson Line, Ltd., Hull; that is correct, is it?
A. Yes, I think it is.
Q. Now, you stated, as I remember it, that you booked
cargoes for the ships of the Ellerman’s Wilson Line?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I assume you followed the usual practice in booking
cargo for a named vessel?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And that cargo is booked to a certain considerable
extent before the ship arrives, for you have order for a
ship coming in, you book cargo for that ship before she
gets here?
A. That is right.
344
Q. And in doing that you of course keep in mind the
capacity of the ship and how much she can carry; that
is true, isn’t it?
A. That is right.
Q. So you book them as full as you can get them, for
you want to get as much freight on your ships as you can?
A. That is correct.
Q. And you did that for the ‘‘Galileo’’, didn’t you?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have someone in your organization who goes
[fol. 433] over the ship’s plan with a view to ascertaining
how much you can carry too, don’t you?
A. That is right.
Q. And you fill in every available space you can with
cargo?
A. That is right. |
Q. And in booking your cargo you keep in mind that
you must have a certain amount of heavy cargo and a cer-
tain amount of light cargo if you are going to fill her up,
don’t you?
A. Well, we have to take what we can get.
Q. But you have that in mind, what we call both weight
and measurement cargo?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, with the ‘‘Galileo’’ had you booked this cargo
_ before she arrived?
A. I wouldn’t say all of it.
Q. But most of it?
A. A good portion of it, probably, the grain undoubtedly.
Q. I show you a bill of lading and ask you if you can
tell me what that bill of lading is?
A. Yes, it is a bill of lading covering the shipment of 8
pieces of plates.
Q. On the ‘‘Galileo’’?
A. On the ‘‘Galileo’’. {
Q. And by whom is it signed?
A. The bill of lading clerk, W. J. Chatfield.
Q. Signed pursuant to instructions given him by Eller-
man’s Wilson Line, New York, Inc.?
A. Yes.
Q. As agent for the Ellerman’s Wilson Line, Ltd., Hull?
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jones: I offer it in evidence.
(It is marked Exhibit 22 of this date.)
Mr. Jones: I also offer in evidence on the consent of Mr.
Keating an invoice of the United States Steel Products
Company, covering 8 pieces of steel mentioned in the bill
[fol. 434] of lading, and the steel is described as 8 pieces
tank steel plate, 8 inches by 1%, 59 feet 3 inches long.
(It is marked Exhibit No. 23 of this date.)
The Court. Were these only 8 pieces of steel 8 inches
wide in the whole of the shelter deck No. 2?
Mr. Keating: Yes, so far as I know.
The Court: It would take up a very small space.
Mr. Keating: Very; they were only 8 inches by 1%
inches.
The Court: Long steel rods?
Mr. Jones: They call them tank steel plates.
The Court: Have you got any information as to there
being other cargo in the No. 2?
Mr. Jones: All I have, if your Honor please, is the stow-
age plan; that all appears on the stowage plan.
Mr. Keating: The report of the agent shows that there
were 103,000 cubic feet of vacant space on this steamer
when she left New York, sir.
The Court: Well, that isn’t very big; this shelter deck
space must have been much larger than that.
Q. Who hired Jarka, the stevedore?
A. When there is any work about that the bids are given
out by contracts.
Q. Who gives out the bids?
A. We do, and the one who submits the most attractive
[fol. 435] bid gets the contract.
Q. Who buys the coal for Ellerman’s Wilson Line ships?
A. We pay for it.
Q. Who orders it?
A. I usually do.
Q. Do you put that out to bids too?
A. At that time we were using Morrisdale coal; we had
been using it for years, and I suppose——
Q. So you determine the kind of coal?
A. Oh, no, we don’t determine the kind of coal.
346
Q. Who dete~mines it?
A. The contractor.
Q. Who made the contract?
A. Mr. Sanderson.
Q. That is Ellerman’s Wilson Line?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And those contracts you have approved by your
Ellerman’s Wilson Line at Hull, before you finally enter
into them, don’t you?
A. I believe they do, yes.
Q. Now, isn’t it true also that with respect to the ‘‘Gali-
leo’’ on the August voyage that you ordered the coal pur-
suant to instructions which you received from Hull by
cable?
A. Yes.
Q. That is Exhibits C and D in this case?
A. The additional coal.
Q. You ordered that pursuant to direct instructions from
the owner?
A. That is right, notifying the captain of the cable.
Q. Now, when it becomes necessary to repair ships of
the Ellerman’s Wilson Line at New York who, in your or-
ganization, has anything to do with those repairs?
A. Nobody in the organization. The captain is the one
who decides whether he requires something to be repaired.
Q. Do you mean to say that you have no one outside of
the ship’s company whose duty it is to look over your
ships to ascertain whether or not they need repairs?
[fol. 436] A. No, sir, and I can tell you why. The ships
are traveling back and forth from the home port, and they
are home every few weeks, and we don’t require anyone on
our side, for that reason.
Q. When it does become necessary to repair them here,
do you ever have anyone from the outside to look at them?
A. No, sir.
Q. No independent surveyor at all?
A. No, sir.
Q. Suppose you have what we call a damage case, do you
have anyone outside to look at it then?
A. Then we would call the company in which the steamer
is insured; it would be Lloyds or whoever it might be.
Q. Don’t you have anyone but the surveyor to look at
the ship?
347
A. I can’t say that we do.
Q. Do you call anyone representing your company to
look at the ship?
A. If a master requires a repair we consider he knows
what the ship needs and we leave it to his jurisdiction.
Q. And you don’t have anyone to look at the situation?
A. No, sir.
Q. Or to check up on the engineer?
A. No, sir, we take their signatures on the bill.
Q. Do you know whether or not Mr. Sanderson was
aboard the ‘‘Galileo’’ before she sailed in August, 19261
A. No, sir, I couldn’t tell you.
Q. You don’t know?
A. I don’t know.
Q. Are you president or vice-president or secretary or
treasurer of the Ellerman’s Wilson Line, New York, Inc.?
A. At the present time?
Q. Yes.
A. I am vice-president.
Q. What was your position with the same line at the time
of the disaster?
A. A departmental head.
Q. What is the capital of Kllerman’s Wilson Line, New
[fol. 437] York, Inc.?
A. I think it is a hundred thousand dollars.
Q. And all of the shares of the stock are owned by Eller-
man’s Wilson Line, Ltd., Hull?
. That is right.
Who was the president in August, 1926?
. Mr. Sanderson, E. Lloyd Sanderson.
And who was the vice-president?
. Mr. Charles H. Georgi.
. How do you spell it?
. G-e-o-r-g-i.
. And who was the secretary?
. I think I was in—1926—no, I think I am giving you
wrong information, I think in 1926 the president was E.
Lloyd Sanderson, that was in November, and the secretary
was Charles H. Georgi.
Q. And who was the tveasurer?
A. Edmund A. Collins.
Q. And who were the directors?
>bOoPOorPOP>OD
—
348
A. Lloyd Bowen Sanderson, EK. Lloyd Sanderson, Charles
H. Georgi, Everett Masten, and Frank A. Bull.
Q. How was Ellerman’s Wilson Line, New York, Inc.
paid for their service?
A. Why, sve received a commission on the manifest, a
percentage, 4 per cent outward and 20 per cent inward.
Q. What arrangement did they have for office space?
A. Well, we had offices at 26 Broadway.
Q. And did the Ellerman’s Wilson Line, New York, Inc.
pay the rent for those offices?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did they occupy the offices with Sanderson & Son?
A. No, sir.
Q. It was a separate and distinct corporation?
A. It was a separate and distinct corporation.
Q. And they had separate and distinct offices for which
they paid rent?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you have a corps of bookkeepers and accountants
in your office?
A. Yes, sir.
[fol. 438] Q. Which Ellerman’s Wilson Line, New York,
Inc. paid?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have correspondence either by letter or by
cable with Ellerman’s Wilson Line, Ltd., Hull, with re-
spect to booking cargo for the various ships?
A. We had what we call a general letter which we wrote
every voyage in which we have a resume of what happens
during the week and what the prospects are; it is all prob-
lematical.
Q. It is a matter of routine?
A. It is a matter of routine.
Q. And have you any letters in your file with respect to
the ‘‘Galileo’’ on the June or August voyages?
A. I should say yes.
Q. Will you be good enough to produce those letters?
The Court: Have you got them here?
The Witness: No.
The Court: He hasn’t thei here.
Mr. Keating: We will have them here in the morning;
we have all the correspondence.
349
By the Court:
Q. Was this Mr. Sanderson the well-known Sanderson
in the shipping world? Isn’t there a well-known name of
Sanderson?
A. L. B. Sanderson, it is Sanderson & Son, who was act-
ing for our line at one time.
Q. Did he act for other iines?
A. He acted also for the Royal Mail, Lloyd Bowen
Sanderson was president of Sanderson & Son, acting in the
capacity of agent for the Atlantic Transport Steam Navi-
gation Company, Lamport & Holt, and Nelson Line.
[fol. 439] By Mr. Jones:
Q. They were agents for the ‘‘Vestris’’ when she went
out on her fatal voyage?
A. Sanderson & Son, yes, sir.
By Mr. Keating:
Is Mr. Bowen Sanderson dead?
. Yes, sir,
. He wasn’t the active head of your company?
. No, sir.
. Who was the active head?
. E. Lloyd Sanderson was the active head.
Mr. Keating: May it appear on the record that I have
produced certai
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