Appendix — Bailey v. Dixon

Supreme Court brief1972

Ask Donna

What actually matters in this document.

Text

_ &

- International as follows:

That an election’ of of fi-

cers of the Local was held

in January ‘of this, year

under the auspices of the

International. —

“That intimidation,

threats and other coercion

= ae on the member-

Ship of the said Local

which unduly influenced

the outcome of the said

election;

"That ‘the contract

negotiated by the repre-

Sentatives of this Local

and Local 1833 was sub-

mitted to the membership

of both Locals. A ref-

erendum election conducted

on February 22, 1969,

Port Allen, Louisiana:

: _ "That the contract

was rejected at the said

referendum by virtue of

intimidation, threats ‘and

other coercion exerted —

. upon the membership of

Local i830 by the newly’

elected officers and .

Board of the said Local;

and |

"That the actions of

the said newly elected

officers of Local 1830

have been such as to ?

cause a complete break-

down of the collective —

es. ae

bargaining system at the

Part of Greater Baton

- Royge, causing hardship _—

and misery to be inflicted

upon the membership of —

this Local; and, s

““That the president, .

Alton J. Bailey, did on _

the 17th day of March,

1969, fail and refuse to

hold special called meet-.

ing petitioned for by the

members under the terms

of the Local constitution;

and:

“That on the 17th

day of March, 1969, while

personnel who worked for

Cargo Carriers and at the

Burnside Terminal were

employed President Alton

J. Bailey did allow those

. persons to.vote~on the

deep sea contract for the

Port of Baton Rouge: ani

; “WHEREAS, President

Alton J. Bailey has con-

*.Stantly refused to hear

legitimate complaints of

‘the members of the Local;

' “WHEREAS, President

Alton J. Bailey has re-

fused to attempt to bar-

gain in good faith with

Sister Local 1833 and

with the management of

the Port of Greater Batm

Rouige: and

“WHEREAS, President

Alton J. Bailey has

handled certain check off:

funds belonging to the

Local, District and Inter-

national for an extended

period of time but has to

date failed to file with

the Local a bond and has

-indeed subverted certain

' funds fron the checking

account of the said Local

and placed same ina

checking account of the

Said Local ‘and placed

Same in a checking ‘account

in the First National Bank

of Port Allen which re-.

qeires only his signature,

all in violation of the

Local and International -

Constitution and the laws.

of the United States; .

and

“WHEREAS, on Monday,

June 16, 1969, President .

Alton J.-Bailey, aided and.

assisted by certain other

members of the Local, who

purported to act as offi-

cers of the Local, did,

in violation of the Con-

-Stitution of International

and in violation of the

Constitution of the Local,

introduce, read and pass

certain legislation

which amended the Consti-

tution of the Local with-

out notice to the member-

ship, without due reading |

aS required by the Loéal

Constitution and with-

out due reading at two

Successive meetings, all

in vielation of the Con- |

_ Stitution of Local 1830

and the International

Constitution; and

“WHEREAS, the duly

elected financial secre-

tary and the duly elected

recording secretary have

been excluded from the

union hall, their minutes

and other documents

required for the perfor-

mance of their duties

having been taken into

the exclusive custody of

President Alton J. Bailey;

and, .

“WHEREAS, it is the

desire of the undersigned .

membership that the Inter-

national Longshoremen’s

Association assume the

responsibility of repre-

senting the. membership

of this ‘Local until such

time as an orderly demo- |

cratic society can be

restored,

“NOW, THEREFORE, the

undersigned .membership

of this Association do

petition the Honorable

President and Executive

Committee of the Inter-

national Longshoremen’s

_, Association to institute

a trusteeship of the said

Local under the terms and

conditions outlined in

the International Consti- |

cution and National Labor-

Management Reporting and

Disclosure Act, which:

trusteeship should con-

tinue, until such time as

the-International can

determine that stable and

responsible leadership is

restored to the Local ~

making it possible for the

membership to engage in

collective bargaining with

the Baton Rouge Manage-

ment and govern their

own affairs.

"THUS DONE AND SIGNED

at Port Allen, Louisiana,

this 26th day of June,

1969.” Signed by a group

of members. That’s the

charges. Now we will

ask the witnesses --

MR. JONES: Would you mind

naming the members who

Signed that to see how

many signed?

THE CHAIR: On the last one,

Mr. Jones, 1, 2, 3, 4,

9, 6, 7, 8 -9,:10, 11,

kSp S29, 24s

MR. JONES: Will you name

them for the record’s

sake, Bill? |

THE.CHAIR: Yes. ‘Louis Harden,

Youlon Young -- some of -

these are kind of blurred

out.

MR. COLE: Mr. Chairman.

_ THE CHAIR: Yes, Mr. Cole.

MR. COLE: If it is agreeable

with counsel and to the

members of the committee,

I would suggest and °

recommend that a.copy of

the petition with the

affixed thereto be enter-

ed into the record and --

MR. MELLER: It will be made

part of the record.

MR. COLE: -=- perhaps it would

Satisfy counsel and

answer the problen. -

MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Chairman, at

this time since you have

read the ch

Joseph A. Gladney, as

counsel for the local

union 1830 of I.L.A. and

as counsel for Alton J..

Bailey, make a statement?

. THE.CHAIR: Yes.

MR. GLADNEY: the first

place I-want to thank Mr.

Chittenden for his very

kind remarks that he made

a few minutes ago in

stating to us that this

10.

matter will be a real

fair hearing, everybody

will be heard thoroughly

and a complete record

will be made of the facts

resulting from this hear-

ing. We thank you and

we appreciate that. I

want to thank Mr. Hopkins

and Mr. Miller for -- at

my request for having

continued this hearing

from July 29 till today

because I had previous

plans to attend a lawyers’

meeting at Denver, Colo-

rado, which I was permit- |

ted and allowed to do and

at the same time be at _

this hearing today, and

I do appreciate that con--

Sideration given me by :

the committee and by the

president. On behalf of

Mr. Alton J. Bailey, the

president of Local 1830,

and the officers‘of the

union which I represent,

we want. to go on record

as pledging to the Honor-

_able Thomas W. Gleason,

president of I.L.A., com- _

plete support of his

policies, his organiza-

tion, and state that in

no way do the officers ;

of this local union desire

to,centravene or oppose

the policies established

Mr. Thomas W. Gleason

as| president of I.L.A.,

a we only oppose --

THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney.

MR. GLADNEY: -- the hearing

at this time -- .

THE CHAIR: . Mr. Gladney..

MR. GLADNEY: - Yes.

THE CHAIR: I don’t mean to

cut you off, but Mr.

Ralph Massey is the

president of the South

Atlantic and Gulf Coast -

District, and this comes. .

under his jurisdiction;

so I just want to let

you know he’s in the:

building here.

MR. GLADNEY: Right. Thank

you, Sir. And we also

pledge our support to Mr.

Massey. I believe he is

the district. president.

And absolutely Mr. Bailey

as president and the offi-

cers will carry out the

' wishes of both Mr. Massey

and Mr. Gleason, both the

district president and

the international presi-

dent. Now, at the begin-

‘- ning we would like to

file -- — |

MR. CHITTENDEN: Mr. Gladney,

before you get into that

. we would like to make one

correction to your state-

ment. Mr. Miller:is not

a member of this particu-

_ lar board. Mr. Clarence

Henry, international

vice president, is him-

self a member. Mr.

Hopkins is chairman: and

Mr. Henry and myself but

not Mr. Miller.

MR. GLADNEY: Thank you. |

Thank you for that infor-

mation as to who is on

the committee. I had

Spoken to Mr. Miller in

regard to having & con-

tinuance as well as I

had spoken to other mem-

bers of the committee,

and they were all very

kind to me and did obtain

through Mr. Gleason per-

mission to continue this,

and I want to thank al]

- Of you for that considera-

tion. At this time, with ..

permission from the chair- _

man, Mr. Hopkins, I would

like to file with the com- _

mittee what we term as

an opposition to placing

Local No. 1830 of the -

International Longshore-

men’s Association in |

trusteeship. "Now comes

Local Union No. 1830 of

the International Long-.-

shoremen’s Association at

‘Port Allen, Louisiana,

represented herein by its

duly elected president,

Alton J. Bailey,” and we

would file the original

opposition on behalf of.

id:

the local union, and at

this time we would like

to read this opposition--

let’s see, did I -- did

everyone get the same

_ thing?

MR. COLE: Mr. Chairman, the |

gentleman is here from

The Morning -- the report-

er is here from The

Morning ‘Advocate and

State Times. As members

of the committee may

know this: -- undoubtedly

-know, this matter or

related matters have been

before the court from

-time to time -- Federal

District Court from time

to time, and due to cer-

tain pleadings which were

filed they were aware of -

this meeting. And-a

gentleman is present in

the meeting hall, and I

felt obliged to call this

point to the attention

of the committee. He

would like to remain and

report on this hearing,

but that’s a matter for.

this committee to consicer.

MR. HENRY: Mr. Cole, --—

| MR. COLE:: Yes, sir.

MR. HENRY: -- we appreciate

' the interest of the press

‘and we realize that there

probably have been some

stories in the past, but

- 14

this is not a public °

hearing. We certainly

wouldn’t want anything

that would get in the .

newspapers before the

executive council or

this committee make any

determination whatsoever.

For that reason ‘-- ‘that’s |

the only reason that we

will object to the press.

being here.

MR. COLE: That’s the reason

that I wanted to call it

‘to the committee’s

attention that the press

was here. I had already.

cautioned him that this

waS an administrative

hearing and --

MR. CHITTENDEN: Because

. Otherwise it -- not only

that, it would be pre--

prejudiced, because if

it hits the newspaper ‘at

a time before we have a

chance to express our

position or even discuss

it amongst ourselves it

_ Seems like he’s being

publicly tried for some-

thing that is our Own |

personal business.

MR. COLE: That is correct.

MR. CHITTENDEN: We’re not

; trying to make Scapegoats

out of anybody; we’re

just looking ‘to try to

find out the truth and —

what is the best -- ~-

MR. COLE: That’s the reason

when the gentleman pre-

sented himself..I wanted

to be certain that the

committee was aware he

was in the room.

MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Chairman,

may I now proceed with

my statement?

THE CHAIR: You mean the

opposition to the hearirg?

MR. GLADNEY: Yes,

THE |

CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, why

can’t we to expedite

.time introduce that in

evidence? If we continue

reading all these long

documents all day we are

‘going to be here until --

I think we can enter it

in evidence and we wil]

accept it.

MR. .GLADNEY: Yes, sir. Well,

we offer this opposition

on behalf of the Local

Union No. 1830 of the

International Longshore-

‘men’s Association and ask

that. it be made part of

the record in evidence

as the pleading for the

union itself, briefly

Stating that the purposes

of the union as stated

“16

in both the International

Constitution and the

Local Constitution are

repeated herein at this -

time, which the local

wants to carry on in the

future and has as far as

I know been catrving on

in the past.. And we do.

not think that the evi-

dence today will show

any- basis or valid legal

reason for placing the

union in trusteeship.

And with that statement

on behalf of the union I

would like to --

THE CHAIR: May I ask you, Mr.

Gladney, before you enter

that in evidence, is that

' Opposition by the union

or by a few members?

MR. GLADNEY: This opposition °

is on behalf of the --

THE CHAIR: Who is it on

behalf of, Mr. Bailey or

the union? .

MR. GLADNEY: It’s on behalf --

I represent the Local :

Union No. 1830, Interna-

tional Longshoremen, rep-

resented by Alton J.

Bailey, and it’s on.

behalf of Mr. Bailey and

the hundred and twenty

odd members of the union

who have signed a petition

attached to Mr. Bailey’s

opposition which states

this, that, “We, the

undersigned members of -

Local #1830 I.L.A., Port_

Allen, La., do hereby

express our complete —

faith and confidence in

Alton J. Bailey, duly

elected President of said.

Local #1830, and do’

hereby further express

our complete approval of

the manner in which he

has conducted and is con-

ducting the affairs of

this organization, and do

hereby declare that thee

are no conditions exist-

ing within this organiza-

tion <--” -- ,

THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, I --

MR. GLADNEY: May I finish, |

Sir? I’m just almost

through here.

THE CHAIR: -All right.

MR. GLADNEY: -- "existing -

within this organization

under which a valid

trusteeship could be

established and there-

fore we do hereby call

upon the officials of

the I.L.A. to discon-. -

tinue their efforts to

establish an invalid

trusteeship over this

organization based upon

unfounded charges filed

THE

by a handful of. dissident

members. This done and

Signed this 2lst day of

July, 1969.” And it’s

Signed by approximately

120 members of -- in good

Standing of Local and

Which is attached to the

next pleading which I

want to offer and make in

the record, which is the .

opposition to the hearing

on behalf of Alton J.

Bailey as a member and

president of Local Union

1830, I.L.A., hereinafter

referred to as ILA, asks

permission of this trial]

committee to file this,

his statement opposing

the authority of this

trial committee to hold

this hearing on charges

brought by members of

the Local Union No. 183

of ILA requesting *hat

the Local be placed i

trusteeship and in oppo-

Sition to said petition

alleges: 1. That the

charges served on -- -

CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, I

ask that that not be

read but be put in evi-

dence. But what I want

to get straight, Mr.

Gladney, I understand

that we’ve got two law-

yers representing Local

1830. Mr. Cole says

that he’s representing

1830, and you indicate

that you’re representing

them. . .

MR. GLADNEY: _ Yes, sir.

THE CHAIR: So we would like

to get it Straight who.

is representing who. -

MR. GLADNEY: Well, I repre-

sent Local 1830 because

of this petition Signed

by a hundred and eighty

attached to the opposi-

tion signed and filed --.

which I intend to file

on behalf of Mr. Alton

-J. Bailey as president

of the I.L.A. and as

officers of it. Now,’

first, this is a legal

basis -- a legal argument

that we need to make

before the committee.

Mr. Chairman, I would

appreciate permission to

permit us to continue our

Statement in a legal argu-

ment in that the charges

fail to state a cause of

action. The charges

served on Alton -J. Bailey

on or about July 15

"failed to state any

wrongdoing on the part of

Alton J. Bailey and/or

any officers of Local

Union No. 1830 of ILA

which appear to be in

violation of the Consti-.

tution of ILA or of Local

Union No. 1830 of ILA.

"2. The members

who sighed the petition

provoking this matter are

in the minority and do not

represent the consensus

of the membership of

_ Local 1830 of ILA, repre-

senting less than ten

(10%) per cent of the

membership of the union,

as shown by a petition

attached hereto and made

a part hereof, signed by .

members of Local 1830 of

ILA, being over two-thirds

(2/3) of the membership

of said Local: and, con-

sequently said charges

should be dismissed --”

-- aS a matter of law --

“eeas. being invalid and

without merit in view of

Section 3 of Article XVI

of the Constitution and

‘By-Laws of the General

Longshore Workers Inter-

national Longshoremen’s —

Association, Local Union

No. 1830, Port Allen,

Louisiana, the oriainal

of which is attached -

hereto and made a part:

héereof.”. And that’s the

original petition signed

by over two-thirds of the

members of the local,

which we are about to file

and the petition attached

thereto and made a part

thereof. In the local

constitution in that

section it provides that

if there. charges had

been presented to the

local secretary, they

would then have to be

referred to a meeting

and before they would be

referred to for hearing

-- before they would be

referred to for hearing

if two -- they would not

be referred for a hearing

if two-thirds of the mem-

bership voted or agreed

not to have such a hear-

‘ing. If this procedure

is brought under the Con-

stitution for disciplinary

action as set out by the

Constitutim -- Article

XVI says, “Charges and

complaints subjecting the

accused to forfeiture of

office, expulsion, sus-.

pension --"which in effect

this would have to sus-

pend him from office --”

or to a fine of more than

ten dollars for the first.

offense, shall be made in

writing; shall be dated

and signed by the person

or persons making the

accusation: shall specify

the act or acts, or

failure to act, complained

of, with the approximate

date thereof; and shall

be filed with the Record-

ing Secretary.

, 22

"The Recording

Secretary shall- immedi-

ately deliver or mail a

copy of the complaint to

each of the accused, and

Shall present and read

the original complaint

to the Association at its

first regular meeting »

after receiving same.’

THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, if we

are going to continue,

this is a hearing of the

_I.L-A. Of course, we

know that if either Side

don’t like what’s happen-

ing they are always going

to the courts. You: know

as well as we do and cer-

tainly federal, state and

city courts will accept a

charge filed by any parti-

cular one individual per-

sm. It doesn’t have to

be ten percent or twenty

or thirty percent. Also

the International Consti-

tution which this charge

_is presented under -- you

can skip any one of any

portions of the bodies.

They ccn skip the locals,

they-can skip the coun-

cils, they can skip the

locals, international

vice president; they can.

skip the district vice

president; they can skip —

the district president; >

they can skip the dis-

trict convention: they

can skip the district

executive board and go

into the convention. So

any one of the actions

they, can do. This was

presented to the Inter-

national; so any one per-.

Son on either side can

bring this up. | So, it’s

a long drawn out affair,

but the International

constitution supersedes

that one. '

' MR. GLADNEY: I appreciate

your comments, Gentlemen, .

but the next section is

the one I referred to.

“At the same meeting at

which received ---” when

this charge was received

by the Local, “all written

complaints shall be |

referred to the Grievance

Committee, unless two-

thirds of the membership

present at said meeting

vote to refuse to enter-

tain any one or more such

complaints.” It is our

position in filing this

opposition that over two-

thirds of the membership

of this union have had

the opportunity to read

the charges and are oppa ed

to I.L.A. International

through the executive

council or the president

in placing the union in

trusteeship and at this

time we would like to

file this opposition to

the hearing’on behalf of

Alton J. Bailey. He

further takes the posi-

tion that, “This trial

committee is without

jurisdiction---” This is

a legal argument we’d >

like to make to Your

Honors, that “This trial

committee is without ju-.

risdiction to hear any

disciplinary charges

brought against Alton J.

Bailey, as president or

- a member of Local 1830,

because the charges were

not. preferred. or initiated

by filing written charges

with the Recording Secre-

tary of Local 1830 of ILA

as required by Section 3

of Article XVIII of the

Constitution and Rules of

Order---” of the Inter-

national organization,

AFL-CIO, and it fails to

comply with Sections l,

2, and 3 of Article XVI

of the Constitution and

By-Laws. of the Local _—_

Union 1830. And there-

fore, in view of the pro-

cedure taken if the com-

mittee continues to hear

this without going through

and complying with both

constitutions, we take

the position that such a

procedure here would be

in violation.of the Con-.

Stitution of ILA-- of

295

Logal 1830 of ILA to |

place Local 1830 in -

trusteeship, this trial

committee and the offi-

cers of ILA are in vio-

lation of the court order

and: judgment granting a

preliminary injunction

Signed June 27, 1969, by

Honorable E. Gordon West,

in which he enjoins the

International from Pplac-

ing the Local in trustee-.

ship, unless it does

comply with the Interna-

tional constitution which

Your Honor has at hand.

His opposition is that

the charges as presented

to Alton Bailey did not

follow the International

Constitution and, there-/

fore, you would be in :

violation of the injunc-

tion that we -- was.

obtained in the case that

you gentlemen are familiar

with. The charging

Parties here are parties

of conflicting interest,

one or more of whom are —

officers of Local 1830,.

and the officers are

interested in -- may I

Point out the section

that I referred to in the

International Constitu-

tion? The charges are

invalid under the Consti-

tution and Rules of Order,

I.L.A., and Order’ grant-

ing preliminary injunctian

in the judicial proceed-

ing entitled Alton Bailey,

et_ al. versus George

Dixon, et al., Civil

Action Number 69-109 of

the docket of the United

States District Court for

.the Eastern DAstrict of

Louisiana. e charges

are invalid because they

- are contrary to the appli-

cable provisions of the

National Labor-Management

Reporting and Disclosure

Act of 1959 as amended.

The charging parties are

attempting to replace the

officers of the Local

1830 without a constitu-

tional election and con-

trary to democratic pro-

cesses. The petition of

specific charges‘is too

vague, indefinite and so

weak -- pt

THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, at

the hearing with Judge

E. Gordon West you stated

everything you said, but

he advised the Interna-

tional to come back and-

give a fair hearing, and

that’s what we are here

to do today --

MR. GLADNEY: Right.

THE CHAIR: =-- regardless of

what you Say.

MR. GLADNEY: Right, Sir.

THE CHAIR: We are here to

Give a fair hearing. And

we asked you, to start

off with, to expedite

time if you have those

charges and things to put

- them in evidence and we

‘ would accept them so

could go ahead on with

the hearing. Now, if we

Sat here and let you read

all day we never would’ get

through with this hearing.

‘MR. GLADNEY: ‘Well, I’m just

almost through.

THE CHAIR: Well, you told me

that 30 minutes ago you~’

were almost through. |

MR. GLADNEY: Yes, sir, but --

MR. CHITTENDEN: Mr. Gladney,.

you keep saying you’re

almost through and you

just keep reading the

record, and you are just

ignoring us on it.

THE CHAIR: Yes, so we’re just |

asking if ---

MR. CHITTENDEN: The question

number one, we want to

correct a difference of

opinion. The constitu-

tion and order of the

International Longshore-

* men’s Association, AFL/CIO

this was adopted July ©

17-21, 1967, in Miami

Beach, Florida; this is

the last one. Article

XX, Trusteeship, which is

page 44, Section 3, and

_I might read: “Whenever

charges which allege a

violation by a Local Union

District Council or Dis-

trigt organization, and/a

its officers, within the

meaning of Section 1 of

this Article, have been

filed with the Executive

Council, or whenever it

has assumed jurisdiction

over such charges filed

with a Local Union, Dis-

trict Conneil, or Dis-

trict organization, the

Executive Council shall

have the following powers,

which it —y | exercise

prior to a hearing or de-

cision on such charges:

--" -«-which gives us the

full power and authority

to hear these charges,

which gives us the right

at this particular time

to be in here and hear

these particular charces,

and this is what we say--

WR. GLADNEY: Well, I under-

Stand that’s your posi-

tion, Mr. Chittenden,

and in all due respect

you may be correct and

we may be correct as a

matter of law that these

charges should have

29...

initiated with the local

union. The way I inter-

pret your constitution

they should have been

initiated --

THE CHAIR: Well, Mr. Gladney,

again I am going to have

to call your attention to

_the fact that Mr. Bailey

has been given the chaross

the secretary of the

local has been given then

“= given the charges, and

we're here to try the

case today.

MR. GLADNEY: 0.K. All right,

sir.

THE CHAIR: We are asking ee

to refrain from all that

long reading so we can

Proceed with the trial.

MR. GLADNEY: All right, sir.

I’a almost’ through; I’ve

got one other thing --

THE CHAIR: You told me that

minutes ago you were

‘ almost through. ,

MR. GLADNEY: I know that. I

have another point to

make, which is --

THE CHAIR: Well, now, wait,

wait. We ask you to

enter that into the

record, Mr. Gladney, ;

because we’re not going

sit here and let you

take due advantage of us

' by reading all that stuff

in the record before we

can proceed with this

hearing.

MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Chariman, I

; want to say to you that

I have no intention of

taking advantage of you --

THE CHAIR: You have just read

hy -- you have taken the

position that this trial

committee --

MR. GLADNEY: I have no in-

tentions of taking

advantage of anybody.

THE CHAIR: You have just put

it in the record that this

trial committee had no

authority to have this

hearing. Wow, we know

we do have authority and

we are going to proceed

with the hearing whether

you think so_or not.

MR. GLADNEY: All right, sir.

Well, I’m not -- I’m not

trying to oppose you.

THE CHAIR: Well, it’s the

last time I will ask you

to enter that in the

record.

MR. GLADNEY: I just want to

make our legal point,

which I think you should

allow us to in order to

have a fair hearing. You

have to -- | |

THE CHAIR: We’re going to give

_ you a fair hearing, Mr.

Gladney. : :

MR. MILLER: Mr. Gladney, May

I state something. You

have all this documented

in black and white. The

chairman has said that

‘you may enter it all into

the record. After this

hearing there will be an

entire record made of the

hearing. The committee

will take the record and

make a recommendation to

the executive council

based on the entire

record, which will

include whatever you have

been reading into the

record.

MR. GLADNEY: Yes, sir. At

this time we would like

to enter this original

f opposition to the hearing

on behalf of Alton J.

Bailey as a member and

president of Local Union

1830, I.L.A. I°11 give

each one of you a copy

of. it. Now, since the

- Opposition pleading has

been filed in the record,

the next point that we

make in regard to the

_charges is that they are

- too vague to have us -

legally respond to them

in a legal and sound

fashion, which is also a

point of law, Mr. Chair-

man, and which we think

-is a sound point of law.

"The ‘Petition of Speci-

fication of Charges’ is

too vague, indefinite and

so latent with ambiguity

to be sufficient to serve

notice of --" <-- on

Alton Bailey or’ the unig,

against opponents who

must answer same. We

point out the ambiguity

‘in regard to the first

paragraph. They say --

MR. MILLER: Mr. Gladney,

before you proceed may I

state, the committee will

not act on the basis of

the charges. The commit-

tee will act on the basis

of what is presented in

the record today, and the

executive council will

act on the basis of the

record today. So I don’t

think -- I think you’re a

‘little premature in mak-

ing your application at

this time as to the

vagueness of the charges.

Because the charges are

just the basis for hold- .

ing the hearing.

MR. GLADNEY: I see. Well,

"Mr. Miller -- in response

to that, Mr. Chairman,

we would like to state

that we are going to

object to any evidence

getting into the record

that is not pointed out

or pled in the charges.

We don’t think that a

hearing would be fair and

legal if you just allowed

a lot of general evidence

that came out that was

not presented by specific

allegations of fact in

the charges themselves.

And we not only will make

objections now, but we’

will object as the hear-

ing goes along to any

evidence that the plead-

ings have not alleged to

cover same. And we insist

on our plea of. vagueness

for the paragraphs that

are vague. n Article 2

it Says --

THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, we

are going to ask that you

enter that stuff in evi-

dence. Mr. Miller has

just explained to you

that this committee is —

not going to rule on

these things. The entire

executive council will

rule on it. We are in

here to get evidence for

the entire council, and

we ask you to enter that

in evidence.

MR. GLADNEY: I have entered

my pleading in the record, -

but so far as arguing my

point, you-don’t allow me .

to be legal counsel for

my clients unless you let

me make my point of law, .

because the point of law

is that when you make a

charge “that intimidation,

threats and other coer-

cion was used on the mem-

bership of said local --”

THE CHAIR: That will be brought

out in the hearing, Mr.

Gladney.

MR. GLADNEY: --"which unduly

influenced the outcome

of said election,” if it

deesn’t show or allege

who made the intimidation,

threats and it does not

allege when and where they

were made, we think that

such a pleading is inade-

quate in law and, there-

fore, would not be the

basis for a fair and

legal hearing, which Judge

West was talking to you

gentlemen about when we

had the hearing in the

federal court. And since

you all --

THE CHAIR: Judge West was

talking -- when he had

_ the hearing in court,

the only thing Judge

West said was that the

proceeding hadn’t been

going too correctly. He

- didn’t go into the facts

as to why: he’ just said

based on the plea that

the proper notifications

hadn’t been out. And

that’s the only way --

reason that he ruled

against us. I’m asking

you to produce this stuff

in evidence so we can go

ahead and proceed with

the hearing.

MR..GLADNEY: Yes, sir. Well,

we have filed our plead-

ing in the record, Mr.

Chairman, which we thank

you for that privilege.

But I would like to state

as a matter of law, I

can’t be a lawyer for my

clients unless I point

out to you -- which would

go in the record for the

benefit of the executive

council and for the bene-

fit of the court. And we

do not waive our rights

insofar as the charges

not specifying facts that

can be answered clearly,

Such as the date, time

and place and who -- who

did the things that are

charged here. In para-

graph 4 it says that

“the contract was rejected

at the said referendum

by virtue of intimidation,

threats and-other coercion _

exerted upon the member-

‘ship of Local’1830_ by

the ‘new elected officers .

and Board of the said

Local” without specifying

which officer, without

specifying the date, time

and place. And we should

be as a matter of law ©

allowed to know exactly

the time, date and place

and who is being charged

with doing these acts of -

intimidation, threats

and coercion by the men-

bership. And the same is

true in several other

articles which I: would

_ like to have the privilege

»f pointing out to you.

THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, let’s

cut some of this out.

The charges here that we

have, which Mr. Bailey has

a copy of and you have a

copy of it and I think the

committee has a copy of a

it, it states facts and

time that you’ve just said

and I don’t see any use

in worrying with all that

stuff that you’ve got.

On these charges it states

on every occasion here

most of the dates and time

and place that it occurred.

MR. GLADNEY: Well, Mr. Chair-

man, I’m going to have to

submit to your ruling.

along with your ruling

but only after making my

exception to same. In

other words, I think as.

a matter of law I have

the right to point out to

the trial committee, which

is like a-court, wherein °

the charges are defective

and fail to state a cause

of action against my |

client. And if you order

me.not to do that I am

going to go along with

your orders but I am

going to except to it and

let the record show that.

I object and except to

the ruling of this trial

committee. ,

MR. HENRY: Mr. Chairman. Mr.

Chairman, you have just

“ told Mr. Gladney that if

he submitted and it will

become a part of the record

at the proper time when

we have finished the hear-

ing the executive council

and this committee will

review what you put in

the records. We will also

be able to review what

the witnesses -- whether

it’s going to be witnesses

for Mr. Bailey or wit-

nesses opposed to Mr.

Bailey, and on that we

will determine just

whther there were any

merits to the charge or

not. But ve ad

38 -

reading a lot here and I

think you realize that

this hearing is not what

you consider like you

would be down in a court

where you were referring

to Judge West. So I

think you have read quite

a bit of evidence for

your client or opposed to

whatever the charges said,

but we haven’t heard any-

thing yet, merits on

either side. That’s what

we want to hear now, and

if you have any more

papers that you would

want to put into the

record: or any statement

that you have written”

down there give it to the

court reporter here and

she will make that a par{

of the record.

_ MR. GLADNEY: All right, thark

you. |

MR. HENRY: Whether you do it ~

orally or whether you do

it then it’s going to be

in the record --

MR. GLADNEY: All right, thank

you.

MR. HENRY: -- and to facili-

tate ‘time we ask you now .

to submit any, briefs that

you have or any written

statement that you have,

put it in the record.—

: ya

MR. GLADNEY: Thank you, Mr..

Henry. I do appreciate

you all wanting to give

me every leéway and any-

thing, but I want to point

- out in detail where the

charges are vague. I’m

going to accept the court’s

ruling that I can’t do it

and then enter an excep-

tion to the court’s

ruling and then continue

frem there.

MR. MILLER: All right, You’ve

made your point, and I

think we should cet on

with the hearing. Every-

thing is part of the

record.

MR. GLADNEY: Next, Mr. Chair-

; man, I would like permis-

Sion of the entire com-:

mittee to file some

pleadings on behalf of |

four officers of Local

1830 of I.L.A., and this ~-

is -- we would like to

make it part of the record.

It speaks for itself; I;

have nothing further to

Say about it. At this :

time we are filing a

pleading which in essence

is an intervention of the

officers of Local Union

1830, International. Long-

shoremen’s Association, :

Specificially, Leroy Smith

aS -- excuse me a second,

let me read these off --

Leroy Smith as vice

president, Alvin Mont-

as committeeman,

and Ernest Davis as one

of the finance committeé-

men, and Freddie Borris.

Thank you sir. The :

Pleading as far as the

wording of it eres for

wR. peng rae wi May I ask you

question on this one

that fer just turned in,

+ Gladney? The last

. met A first page, you

quote in there besides

violating the I.L.A. con-

stitution it also violates

“the judgment of the United

States District Court as

entered by the Honorable

E. Gordon West.” Wow, if

I remember correctly, I

was sittinc there, the

Honorable Gordon West told

us to ze out and do it

properly and if anythi

was to come back it would

certainly be brought back

to either him or some other

federal judge but to go

out and do it properly.

This is not in violation;

this hearing is under the

constitution and pot vio-

lating-- in other words,

what I want to state is

that we are not violating

the Honorable Judge Wests

decree. So we're only

going back and redoing

what he instructed us

to do.

MR. GLADNEY: Yes, sir. I

appreciate, itr. Chitten-

den, that you are in —

. good faith and be-

lieve exactly t you

say. It is my position

on the constitution, in-

terpreting it and the

law, that the committee

has failed to comply with

* the I.-L.A. constitution,

but that is a matter of

legal argument which you

may disagree with me and

Judge West may disacree

with me but again he

might agree with me.

Now, at this time, we

would like to file on

behalf of Alton Bailey,

et al., aS respondents in

this matter an answer.

To the answer we have

certain attachments which

include copies of a reso-

- lution that was passed at

. the membership meeting

and a copy of the court -

order entered by Judge

West. And we ask that

this answer be filed, Mr.

Chairman. Mr. Chairman,

Since the charges were

read into the record at

the request of counsel] or

S in the room --

THE CHAIR: Nobody instructed

anybody. We read it --

we were bound to read

the cha to the brothers

to let know what they

were charged with.

MR. GLADNEY: Yes, sir.

THE CHAIR: It wasn’t that

- anybody recuested it.

It was our responsibility

to do so.

MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Chairman,

since the charges were

read according to you

all’s rules and all

are running the ring,

we would like the same

privilege of reading to

the committee our answer

to the charces.

MR. COLE: Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIR: Mr. Cole.

MR. COLE: There has been no

determination, as far as

I know, as to representa-

tion of the various par-

ties in connection with

this hearing. But assunm-

ing that my position in

this hearing is counsel

for the charging parties

and that I have no other

ition in this hearinc,

would not object to the

andwer being made a part

of the record. However,

in order to conduct 4s we

are indeed conducting 4

trial under the rules of

procedure as they apply

to the United States

District Court, the

answer filed today does

not give to the charging

parties, having not seen

it before this date, any

time to see any of the

pleadings of fact that I

note to be in here or to

prepare any defense to

any of these pleadings of

fact. And I would on

behalf of the charging

parties object to a

lengthy recitation of this

answer, adopting the posi-

tion that the charges

were properly filed with

the body to whom they were

addressed, that is, the

International committee,

and that the International

committee is holding a

hearing which it has con-

vened itself to hear the

testimony. It was not my

understanding that this

constituted a judicial

trial or was a judicial

Proceeding. I believe

that the trial committee

has so ruled on a number

of occasions. As I said,

I have no objection to

any documents that need

to go into the record

going into the record,

but if we’re going to .

hold a trial we’re coing

to have to apply all of

the rules of pleading

which would fall under

United States District

Court. And if that is

‘the case then, of course,

this committee is serving

no useful function what-

soever and we micht as

well have filed this matter

in the United States

District Court for Judge

West to have taken the

evidence on it.

MR. CHITTENDEN: For your in-

formation and for all the

lawyers here, certainly

Mr. Hopkins is the chair

and he rules on it, and

we are the committee and

we either back up or -

object to the procedures.

Being laymen -- certainly

neither one of the three

of us are lawyers, but

we are intelligent men.

It is the first time we

are allowing lawyers to

come into these meetings

and certainly you’ve

changed it. And, first,

I’ve noticed a petition

that is turned in by Mr.

Gladney constantly states

that the local is going

to be placed under trust-

eeship before Mr. Bailey

or his people have a

chance to discuss their

problems or the opponents

who signed charges against

him have a chance to

discuss their position.

We are trying to decide

whether we will bring —

back a certain bona fide

legitimate report to the

international executive

officers and thereby make

their decision if either

person is guilty or not

epg thereby turning

this here hearing into a’

federal issue. there-

by it puts us, the three

men who are now sitting

here as so-what judges of

this particular hearing --

and it’s not a trial; but

you’ve turned it into a

federal issue. And cer-

tainly it becomes a

federal issue. I think

that most of us are in-

telligent enough to know

that all these records

being presented are cer-

tainly going to go back

into the federal court if.

it doesn’t come out either

Side that likes these

points. We in the past

have come in for the In-

ternational and have gone

into our own people, in

our own family -- which .

certainly Mr. Bailey is a

portion of it as the 7

President of this loca] --.

and always tried the hear-

ings under proceedings of

the International Consti-

tution. If a person then

was guilty he was told by

the International we were

putting them under trust-

eeship temporarily. Then

these men, all men of

officers or locals have

recourse many ways. First,

they have their local dis-

trict council: secondly,

they have their district

officers: they have the

district executive board

which is under President

Massey; they have Presi-

dent Massey himself; they

have the district, South

Atlantic Gulf Coast Dis-

trict, I.L.A.; they have

the International Consti-

tution by itself under the

international executive

board, the international

president and the Inter-

national. Then we have

the courts on this thing.

So we say, gentlemen, to<

you lawyers here, let’s

get on and get this thing

_ Gown to where we-can try

to see what these men have

to say. -Certainly I have

no prejudiced opinion now

of this particular case

until-I hear Mr, Bailey’s

Side, Mr. Bailey’s offi-

cers, and certainly until

I hear these other people

I don’t think we can

cast an honest decision

on this thing and then

bring it back to the In-

ternational. But all

through this thing you

all are prejudging what

our intentions are or

what we are going to do.

se certainly, gentlemen,

Say this that you gentle-

men being trained skilled

professional men certainly

could_have Mr. Hopkins,

Mr. Henry and myself at

a disadvantage, and cer-

tainly we are Saying now

that maybe we ought to

. dispense with so much

legality on your side and

get into what is the just

case here because in the

end it may not be either

Side’s opinion of what is

going to happen here.

So, gentlemen, I would

like to request that the ¢

chair instruct you cgentle-

men let’s not constantly

Say law, law, law, be-

cause that is for the

federal judge to decide

if it so goes back into

this court. And the

Honorable Gordon West or

Some other honorable

federal judce will decide

it because he is trained =

for it. I would like to

ask you gentlemen through

the chair to constantly

refrain from Saying points

of law, because with us

we are going to have many

hours here, and I think

if that’s the case that’s

going to be decided, I

think Mr. Bailey on his

side should have his

counsels or counsel] and o

on our opponent’s side to

have their counsel, go

back to court, and Mr.

Hopkins and Mr. Henry and

myself and the Interna- ~

tional would not sit in

judgment of this, thing.

Because, after all, we

would have to rule as lay-

men against.trained pro-

fessional men. So I think

that let’s try. to get into

the facts of the case, the

honest and just sincerity

of it, without so much ~

legality because we are

not trained for that

position.

MR. JONES: Mr. Chairman, I

am sure that everyone

here is interested in

seeing that Mr. Bailey

and all concerned have a

fair and impartial demo-

cratic hearing. I appre-

ciate that point along

with Mr. Gladney that

that is what is being

done. But in order to

help you as laymen to see

that these rules are

followed in order that a

fair and impartial demo-

cratic hearing be held

that is the reason why

that we are here to

assist Mr. Bailey and I’m

sure that’s the reason

why Mr. Cole and Mr.

Miller are there to

assist the-other side.

We are here to see that

the rules of the game --

or try to -- that they

are followed and that

they are carried out.

And I think that that is

the only job or duty that

we have here today. The

judgment of this case

definitely rests with you

all, Mr. Chairman and the

associate chairmen of .

this trial committee, to

see that fair judgment

-is rendered in this case.

We are here refereeing

this game so to speak in

a way, but you are the

jury. You are the umpire.

You are the one that is

going to call the plays

after the game is over.

You’re going to call each

' play as it comes along.

And right now we are at

the bat. We are present-

ing certain papers. And

you have to call those

papers, and we are here

and want it called accord-

ing to the rules. Now, —

you know that we have

now presented an answer —

before this court. It

comes today. If we were

Playing the rule as it

Stands there would be a

certain time in which our

answer should have been

filed. We had no notice

as to what time our

answer should have been

filed after Mr. Bailey

had received the com-

plaint -- the charges

against him. So, there-

fore, we choose, not hav-

ing any particular rule

laid down as to the time

limit to file the answer

after charges received by

Mr. Bailey, we choose to

do it today. And if you

feel or deem that you

need more time in order

to read and to analyze

what is here in the answer

we are certainly willing

to give you that time.

If counsel needs more

“time, if Mr. Miller ---

MR. MILLER: Mr. Jones, may I

say something? First,

let me correct the record

that Mr. Miller is not

here to represent or to

assist either side: he is

here to represent and.

assist the committee only.

Now, this is not 4 legal

proceeding. There was no —

need for an answer .but

you put one in; it’s in

the record. Nothing is

going to be decided, Il

said before, on the basis

of the charges. Every-

thing will be decided by

_t¢the committee and the

executive council on the

basis of what goes into

the record from the

testimony of witnesses

and the evidence at this

hearing. All these docu- ~*

ments that are in the. :

record, that will not

change what will happen

at this hearing. After

the hearing is concluded

the complete record will

;—be put together by the

reporter here, the com-

mittee will each get a

copy of it, they will

analyze the record and

make a report to the

executive council based

only on the record, not

an answer that you have

prepared to answer these

charges. Because that

was not necessary. Every-

thing will be done at

this hearing. i, FX.

MR. JONES: Thank you kindly,

Mr. Miller, but we cer-

tainly do not want any-

thing in evidence or any

evidence put on that -

would go beyond the plead-

ing, beyond the charges --

MR. MILLER: ‘You are being |

premature. When you have

a chance to object, you’ll

object and the chair will

rule. é

MR. GLADNEY: Thank you, Mr.

Miller. :;

THE CHAIR: Now, Mr. Gladney,

‘before you proceed, .

based on the fact that

we did not get a chance

to get these answers and

analyze them I’m going

to sustain Mr. Cole’s

objection.

MR. GEADNEY: .O.K. Mr. Miller,

I think you put a state-

ment to the effect that

- the proceedings, a copy

- of which will be furnished

to each member -of the |

trial committee.- -At this

time I’d like to inquire

of the committee will Mr.

Bailey also be furnished ~

a copy of the sam—s=

ceedings--exact copy of

what the committee - iY

receives, ‘Mr. Bailey?

THE CHAIR: Yes, he wi Tk Got

a copy. |

WR. GLADNEY: Thank you, sir.

Mr. Chairman, in due

- respect to what Counsel

said and to which Your

Honor -just -ruled, the

only purpose in an .

answer, particularly in

this case,would be-to

.state Mr.. Bailey’s posi-

tion as to what he intends

to prove to help simplify.

the question before the

trial committee.

THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, you .

are being premature. We

are going into this

thing, and we are not

basing our findings on

all of this crap you’ve

_got here. We are going

into the case and base ©

_ our findings on the merits

of the hearing.

MR. GLADNEY:* All right. We |

don’t want any member of

the committee to presup-

pose that we assume that

you all have already

decided the case.

“THE CHAIR: - That's the way it |

looks. - ae ay

_ MR. GLADNEY: Our pleadings’

i are based on the charges

that were made in asking

_ you and the executive

council and the president -

to place the union in .

trusteeship, and we gare

, Opposing that. We want

you to clearly understand

that we-- our position °

_ against the union being

Placed in trusteeship,

and because you have been

requested== you and the -

executive council and the -

president have been. re-

quested to place it in

trusteeship--

MR. HENRY: Mr. Chairman, 1-

would just like to Say

wR:

— eae =

MR.. HENRY:

. copy? |

MR. GLADNEY:

copy f

' He rec

mail:

Copy,

MR. HENRY:

receiv

this t

everyo

o Mr. Gladuey and

ne else here, that

the three of us here, we

don’t have any sides, and

every

the I

the I.

receiv

member

'- Bailey.

and th

financial member of

.L.A. is a part of

L.A., and we have

ed complaints from

s who charge Mr.

with certain things

ey will have the

opportunity to prove.

‘those

as wit

will h

to mak

ments

charges. .Mr. Bailey

or whoever else who appears -

nesses on his behalf

ave an opportunity

e whatever state-

they have that will

either-- deny these charges ,

as jou

here.

‘ve pointed out

I would ltke to

ask you, did you get a

copy o

Mr. Gl

f these charges,

adney?

“"GLADNEY: Mr. Henry, I

o tell you this--

Did you get a

I received a

rom Mr. Bailey.

eived it in the-

he furnished me a

yes,,Sir.

Mr. Bailey

ed a copy and he

also furnished you--

. GLADNEY:

Yes, absolutely.

55 3

MR. HENRY: -- a. copy?

MR. GLADNEY: We have admitted.

that in our answer to

you. .

MR. HENRY: I would like to

ask another question.

You gave a ‘list of the

nameS, you Said a hundred

‘and a few, who pointed

out or-whdo deniied these

allegations. Did these

hundred and a few men

have an opportunity to

see what Mr. Bailey was

charged with?

MR. GLADNEY: I think--.]

: didn’t Personally go

around and present the

charges to every member,

MR. BAILEY: May T- answer that

: question. The charges

- were read at a membership

meeting to all members.

MR: GLADNEY: That answers it |

| as far as I know. .

MR. HENRY: And these. men,

“who: you said a hundred

and some of them were -

present at that meeting,

Mr. Bailey? ,

MR. BAILEY: We had a quorum

7 at the meeting: we had

members present.

MR. GLADNEY: I feel-- without

knowirig as to my knowledg,

’ Mr. Henry, I feel certain

that all of the members

who signed the petition

opposing trusteeship are

substantially familiar

with the charges that have.

been made against-- by the

‘petition-- this was passed

- around, and not only read

at the meeting, but 1 .

think they all are familiar

with it if not verbatin,

’ substantially: with what

the charges are.

MR. HENRY: All right.

MR. CHITTENDEN :~ Mr. Gladney,

MR.

WR.

while we are staying on

this thing, certainly

you know, according to

legal] action, if we were

legal men, we certainly

would call your hand on

‘that, because you are

giving hearsay evidence.

You don’t know for sure

that your statement is

the fact-- ©

GLADNEY: No, no--

CHITTENDEN: --and things

‘like this. These are

the things we are saying;

so actually we’d like to

hear from the membership--

. GLADNEY: Right.

MR.

5 5

CHITTENDEN: --and we'd

like to hear from Mr.

Bailey, because on his

Statement the testimony

these people or he’s

Given, because we could

spend all day long-- in

fact, we could put, you .

four lawyers out in the

+ room, go out there and

waste all day long and

come up with all kinds of

legal actions, and cer-

tainly either side has

‘the right to put their

- briefs into court and cer-

tainly on legal points

the judge will decide it.

Certainly, on what these

men Say here today is

what we are going to turn

back to the International

President. So certainly,

- all of these legal docu-

ments you have here, may-

be I understand it, maybe

I.don’t. I’m not telling

you whether I do or don’t.

. GLADNEY: I know you-do.

. CHITTENDEN: Maybe I do.

- GLADNEY: I’m sure you do.

. CHITTENDEN: Maybe you -

think I do. But the case

is this, I think what the

men state is what we’re

going to try to--

- GLADNEY: Right:

MR.

MR..

MR.

CHITTENDEN : 7-do tor.

that organization.

GLADNEY: Well, I wasn’t

trying to influence you

but he had directed the

question to me of how I -

‘could answer it correctly

knowing that I had never

been to any of the meet-

ingS. — ae a 3

CHITTENDEN: Yes, sir.

. GLADNEY: And I wasn’t

‘trying to give him any

_ information that he--

_ CHITTENDEN: Well; we

would like to get all of

your documents and put

‘them in the record as

eyhibits on this thing

and then--

. GLADNEY: We have filed--

_ CHITTENDEN: --clear the -

witnesses.so that we can

start with the witnesses

- and-hear what. they have

_ GLADNEY: All right. -

Thank vou, Mr. Chittenden.

We have filed our docu-

ments. That concludes

our documents.- Thank

you.

CHITTENDEN: .All right.

THE

MR. ©

THE

MR.

MR. -

59°

CHAIR: We are asking all.

the witnesses to step —

outside.

COLE: . The witnesses for

the charging parties.

are-~ ae

CHAIR: We would like to

get the names of the wit-

nesses for both ‘sides.

COLE: I will be glad to

furnish the names of the

witnesses for the charg-

ing parties... They are:

Mark Young

-Edisen Jones

Louis Harden .

Elmo Smith

Roosevelt Green

Henry Gray

and ~-

7 Emrick Portree

GLADNEY: Mr, Chairman,

point of order. You just:

stated all the witnesses

would be excused and I

"ask as a matter of what

1S usual in court proce-

- dure that the parties

charged, not only Alton

Bailey, but officers of.

the union have been listed

in these charges, and I- .

ask permission for the -

_ officers to Stay in as

well-as Alton Bailey, the

other officers. 7 ,

*60

THE CHAIR: Are they.

witnesses?

MR. GLADNEY: They may -or may

not be

‘HENRY: We want the names ©

of the witnesses who are

going. to ace iits

THE CHAIR: If they are going

MR.

to testify, we don’t .

want them in here.

HENRY: If they are not

going to testify, they.

are welcome to: stay’ and

there’s no question about

it. Are those men you've.

called, Mr. Cole, are

' they going to testify?

. COLE: Each and. every one

of them intends to testi-

fy. .

. HENRY: We will ask those

' persons whose names you

called to step Taeea omy

please.

. CHITTENDEN: Justa minute

there. Let’s get the

names for:Mr. Bailey, who

his witnesses are going

to be...

.. GLADNEY:: We ask that--

- all the members of the >

‘union are our witnesses.

We have no-- all of them-

but we would like to obje

ve:

THE CHAIR: Well, they

a 3

to if the trial court

has ruled that officers

‘can’t stay in here like

_Leroy Smith and Alton

Bailey and any officers

who are of the union, be-

. cause all of them are

affected by these charges

brought by the charging -

parties asking that the

union be put in trustee-

Ship. All of them will

be suspended, and I think

thate-- -

_MR. COLE: Mr. Chairman--

THE CHAIR: Mr. Cole. |

MR. COLE: «=. you will excuse

me, please. -At least. .

three of the witnesses who

have just excused them=

Selves from the room are

officers of this local.

Certainly each and every

member of this local is

‘going to be affected by

the decision of this

trial committee here to--

day, and such an argument--

have no objection to -

anybody staying that wants

to stay, but if the com-.

mittee is going to excuse

the witnesses then I would:

adopt the position that.

all of the witnesses need

to be excused. _ :

are \.¢

going to be excused,

MR. HENRY: All except Mr.

Bailey. Se ge

~ MR. COLE: ‘I would -except Mr.

Bailey, of course. .

MR. JONES: We take the posi=-.

tion that all of the

officers of the local -—

fall in the same category

‘ relative to these proce-

dures as Mr. Bailey does;

‘they all are respondents;

they all are charged--

all of the officers are

charged; they are parties

to this suit, and all ;

parties have the right to

remain. :

MR. HENRY: Mr. Jones, I know

that you and your asso-

ciate, Mr. Gladney, are

3° very familiar with proce-

- dures. Now, we ask the.

charging party witnesses

. who are to testify to

step outside. We cer-

tainly -couldn’t give the

advantage that tHey are

going to sit in here and

listen to every one of

‘these witnesses come in

and then come up and try

to say something. -If

they are going to testify -~

they would not have heard

what the other witnesses

said whatsoever. Their

testimony would not |

depend upon what the

witness said. Their

, a ~ :

‘testimony is to come in

‘here and tell us what

they know about these

_Gharges whether they are |

. Yight or whether -they-are. a

wrong. Now, you’ve been .

in court many, many days.

You know they put witnesses

out. They don’t let one ‘

witness sit in here and |

hear what the other fellow

SayS and have his answer

all set when the man gets

through and calls him.

MR. JONES: I appreciate your

position, Mr. Henry. [I

know: exactly what you are

Saying.. But what we main-

-* Bailey is in. They are

all parties and-in court

whenever there is a hear-

ing the parties +o the

_ Suit have the right to.

remain in the court.

MR. CHITTENDEN: On a point

Le there, Mr. Jones, you

' - know as well as we do and

- certainly you make an

issue--

MR. JONES: Yas.

MR. CHITTENDEN: --then it

. becomes a question, a

Fe moot. case. -How does a

member sue his Parent

» £©rganization if it also

- inethe end, the ultimate end,

he affects himself because he’ >

a portion of it too? It’s a

fact on this thing The Chair has

ruled certainly every.member on

both sides, certainly the mem-

bers on-Mr. Bailey’s side, cer-.

tainly the members on these ©

‘other people’s side, whoever the

people may be, certainly they

are affected also.

To be fair and impartial then.

the intelligent thing to do is

to exclude everybody who is go-

ing to be a witness, and we want y

the names-of the witnesses. ‘We

are not going to accept the

whole organization as a witness

for the simple reason if the

whole organization becomes a

‘witness for your side, then how

do you go about saying that the

opponents of yours are going to

be a witness for your side too

- because they are members of the

organization? So we are saying

to you, we want you to name your

witnesses ahd those who are going

to be witnesses will be excused

except Mr. Bailey.

. JONES: Mr. Chittenden, what

“I'm saying is that we are not

using the words “affected by.”

We are distinguishing the words

“affected by” from parties to

this hearing. All of. them surely

will be affected by this hearing *

-_but they all are not parties to

this hearing, and that’s the

distinction that we are raising.

Now, all officers are parties to

this hearing by virtue of the

pleadings, by the charges.

- MILLER: May I point’ out to you,

Mr. Jones, that although they do

in the charges state officers the

only one against whom the charges

have been recognized is Mr.

Bailey. As you will ncte from

' the correspondence back and forth,

Mr. Bailey is the one to whom the

charges were sent personally.

The executive council has not

recognized charges against any

other officer at this time.

- GLADNEY: I’d like to-- in ré-

Sponse to Mr. Miller’s statement

as counsel for the committee,

the trial committee, I’d like to

State that a further reason for .

this hearing being illegal and

invalid is because the purpose .

of it, as I understand, is only —

to determine whether or not the

union would be placed in trust-

eeship and one of the--

- MILLER: May I correct you

there? There are two alterna-

tives here. There are charges

. Personally against Mr. Bailey

and a request for’a trusteeship. ©

Now, the committee may take

either side and act. on the charges

acainst Mr. Bailey personally and

take action against Mr. Bailey

if that is the decision or it

may make a recommendation that

the entire loca] may be placed

into trusteeship. There are two

NR.

MR.

alternatives for this committee

and I think that the correspon-

dence will indicate that.

. JONES: That is true, Mr.

Miller, that there are two alter-

natives, perhaps, but if that is

true this is a hearing on both

at the same time. .

- MILLER: That is correct.

. JONES: ‘This hearing is common

to both.

. MILLER: That is correct. —

- JONES: Since this hearing is

common to both, then both-- all

parties to this hearing have a

right to remain in.

-GLADNEY: O.K. May I make one

point of order, Mr. Miller?

MILLER, Yes, sir.

GLADNEY: Assuming-- you may be

j Miller, but according’ —

to the charges as I read then,

they conclude with this:

"NOW, THEREFORE, the under-

signed. membership of this

Association do petition the

Honorable President and Execu-

tive Committee of the Inter-

national Longshoreman’s Asso-

ciation to institute a trust-

eeship of the said Local under

the terms and_conditions out- ‘

lined in the International

Constitution and the National

Labor~Mariagement Reporting

and Disclosure Act, which

trusteeship Should continue

-until Such time as the Inter-

national can determine that

stable. and responsible leader-.

ship -is restored to the Local

- making it possible for the

‘membership to engage in col-

lective bargaining with the

‘Baton Rouge Management and

govern their own affairs.”

Now, the way I read these charges

they do not say that this ‘is for

the. purpose of charging Mr.

Bailey with wrongdoing and for

the purpose of Placing the local

in trusteeship. As I read all

of the whereases and the conclu-

Sion of the charges are simply

pointed at one Purpose, whether

or not this trial committee will

recommend to the international

President or the executive coun-

cil to place the local union in

trusteeship. . Now, I may be

wrong but that’s the way I inter-

@ charges.

MR. MILLER: You see, Mr. Gladney,

you are interpreting this as an

attorney. As Mr. Chittenden

pointed out to you, under the

rules of the I.L.A. or any other

union for that matter any person

68.

take the formality of a com-

plaint. It can be a letter to.

an officer of the union stating

_ that so and so did this at this

time, et cetera. This is all

that is necessary to institute a

hearing. This is what was done

today. Now, what will develop

here wil] determine what the

report will be to the executive

council--

MR. GLADNEY: All right, sir, but--

MR. MILLER: --and what action will

be taken thereon.-

MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Miller, I under-

stand what you say, and if what

you say is correct then Alton

Gailey is personally being &

charged with the violation of ©

some provision of the constitu-

tion which is not specified in

these charges and we object to

‘the hearing insofar as being

personal charges against him for

‘that. reason also because we think

that if these are personal charges

against him other than just plac-

ing the union in trusteeship he

should not only be told what pro-

vision of the constitution he

violated and also what acts of

facts that he did wrong and

which violated the specific pro-

vision of the constitution. .

MR. MILLER: I think the charges

spell out what he is being

charged with but I think it'will-

be developed here as I said.

This is not-- it is not necessary

‘here .to have a formal complaint

spelling everything out. That ’s

the purpose of the hearing. |

Everything will be spelled out

Sta, PREPARE Be uBR BER oa,

parties to substantiate whatever

they have charged in their peti-

tion.

- CHITTENDEN: | Gentlemen, I keep

stating on this- thing I think

“you're prejudging Mr. Bailey and

his people on this thing, but

here’s the thing -- the members |

have made these charges -- we are.

here as a hearing. If these -

people give us enough to warrant

any particular thing, we cer-

tainly. would tell Mr. Bailey. .

Supposing by the same virtue they

have’ not convinced this commit-

tee, then we will rule that there

was insufficient. evidence for

any type of charge. Now this is

a hearing. We are not here

charging to Say we are against.

Bailey or the local or for or

against these other people. This

is what we are Saying. We want

to hear. what these people have

to say. If they say Mr. Bailey

did this, we want to hear them

Say it and we want to have Mr.

- Bailey’s counter offer of what

-he did. Then it’s up to this

committee to rule whether they

have enough to prefer these type

of charges. But the case is this.

You people -are constantly trying

him as a guilty matter before he

THE

get a chance to a

. GLADNEY: No--

CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, we are not going to

sit here and listen to all of this kind

_of argument. We are-asking you to give us

THE

the names of your witnesses --

_ GLADNEY: On that point is what I am stand-

ing for, Mr. Chairman. You made the state-

ment that you wanted us to give the names

of the witnesses--

CHAIR: Right.

; GLADNEY: --and it’s impossible to know

which witnesses are involved because the

charges in the-- the written charges are

indefinite as to who is involved and who:

can be present who knows about it. Not

until we hear the evidence from. the charges

are we going to know what witnesses we, can

use. So it’s impossible for us to give

you the names in advance of-who we may--

CHAIR: Well, we are going to have to have

them. A ae

. GLADNEY: We. will give them to you as we

call then.

CHAIR: Well, they all have to go out

then. You can call them as you want then.

Put them all out. 3 by

. GLADNEY: - Well; the only thing, Mr. Chair:

man--

CHAIR: Put them all out.

. HENRY: Put them all out.

THE

MR.

“THE

MR.

CHAIR: - All of them go out but Mr. Bailey. ©

GLADNEY: All out but Mr. Bailey? |

CHAIR: Right..— 2

GLADNEY: That’s your ruling. We except

to the ruling so far as the officers are

concerned, but we understand that’s your

ruling and we will comply with it. Every-

body goes out but Mr. Bailey. |

- COLE: It is my understanding then that

all of the membership of Local 1830 is

excluded from ‘this hearing.

CHAIR: Well, what he said, Mr. Cole, he

may call either one of then.

- GLADNEY: That’s right.

= CHAIR: Unless ‘he would give us names, we

don’t know who they are.

«COLE: | Well, I just wanted to be sure

. that--—

CHAIR: I mean we don’t want to do that.

» COLE: «J understood the ruling.

CHAIR: We don’t want to do that, Mr.

Cole, but he might actually call one of

the fellows we leave in here--

- COLE: _¥ee.|-

CHAIR: --and inasmuch as he won’t give

'us the names, let them all go out.

- CHITTENDEN: In that particular case, then

that witness definitely would not be

gg |

.° er

acceptable testimony to us.

THE CHAIR: .If he wants to leave somebody in

here, then he can’t.call them asa witness.

MR. CHITTENDEN: If anyone stays in here from

' the membership of that local, be it thor-

oughly understood that -he cannot be called .

as a witness for either side because we

will not allow him to testify on either

side, for or against. — SO |

MR. COLE: Bearing that ruling in mind, then I.

would request that the chairman also

exclude Mr. J. Harvey Netter, who-is pre-

sent in this-room. I ask that he be ex-

cluded because ‘it may very well be that he

will be called as a witness in this matter.

THE CHAIR: To the attorneys-- inasmuch as

this is not a court hearing, it’s a hear-

ing instituted by the International Presi-

dent, this committee is requesting. that

everybody but the accused be eliminated

from the’ room ard: we’ll call the witnesses

as we need then.

MR. GLADNEY: In view of this ruling by the

trial court we-want the record to show.

that we will except to the trial.commit-

tee’s ruling insofar as it requires the

officers of the union who filed the inter-

vention in this matter to leave the hearing °

room. -Everybody leave the room. .

MR. CHITTENDEN: Then we’d also like.to state

that-- let the record show that there are

officers on both sides, for and against,

being excused from the room. All members

of Local 1830 will be excused because the —

attorneys from either side may call them

as witnesses. , ie

——“{THE WITNESSES LEFT THE HEARING ROOM. )

THE CHAIR: Mr. Cole.

MR. COLE: The charging parties would like for °

the committee to call first Mark Young,

_the- financial Secretary of Local 1830.

THE WITNESS, MARK YOUNG, HAVING BEEN SWORN TO

“TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING:

BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP HIM GOD, ‘TESTIFIED AS

FOLLOWS:

* MR. COLE: In connection with the witness’

testimony three documents will be intro-

duced. I will furnish them to the witness

"and once his testimony is concluded we’]]

‘ ask that they be made a part of- the record. .

‘

DIRECT EXAMINATION . f

BY MR. COLE: |

Q. Mr. Young, what is your position with I.L.A.

Local 1830?. = he

A. Secretary-treasurer.

0. When were y.ou elected to this office?

A. Inthe last election..

Q. When was that held, please?

" It was held in -- in the first of the veer,

- And you’ve been sworn in as the secretary-

treasurer? |

Ay Yes, sir.

PRs Have you been acting as the treasurer of

' the local? Ab eX. |

A. Yes, sir.

.Q. Now, you have in your hands two documents

which enumerate certain checks. One is

headed “Southeastern Terrinals”; the

other one is “Paid to Local 1830 by Burn-

._ side Terminal,” is that correct? .

A. Yes.

9. Where did you get ‘those lists, please?

A. These lists came from these particular

companies.

'Q. And who got them; did you get them your-

self from the representatives of the

companies?

A. I beg your pardon?

Q. Did you get them yourself from the repre-

sentatives of the companies, the lists?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. And --

MR. GLADNEY: May I see them?

(THE WITNESS TENDERED SAME TO MR. GLADNEY. )

BY MR. COLE: —

Q. <-- generally in connection with those

lists what do they purport to show, the

checks issued or what?

WR. GLADNEY: We object to any testimony from

this witness as to what these documents

purport to show unless the witness himsel!

prepared these lists.

.. MR.

.CHITTENDEN: Well, gentlemen, if we are

going to --

THE CHAIR: Objection overruled. He doesn’t

prepare lists for the companies. Go ahead,

Mr. Cole. “s

(The witness did not reply.)

BY MR. COLE:

In connection with those two lists that

were furnished you, -- a

JONES: “Before you-go amy further, Mr.

Cole, would you mind telling the witness

what you are attempting or intend to

establish by thoses, please, sir.

- COLE: I don’t have any -- I don’t think

there’s any Secret of what we are trying

to establish by these lists. These are

the lists of checks that have been made

Payable to Local I.L.A. 1830. This man

testified that he is the financial secre- —

tary; that is the Ssecretary-treasurer of

the local. We intend to establish that he

has not received these checks and they have

not been deposited to the account of the

local over a: period of Some four months.

THE CHAIR: Go ahead, Mr. Cole:

MR. GLADNEY: Can we depose the trial commit-

tee as to what portion of the charges is

this evidence Supposed to be in support

of?

COLE: Does the committee require an answer

from me and if so --

THE

CHAIR: Go ahead and conclude your case

and then if there are any questions on it,

Mr. Cole, we’ll --

“JONES: We wish to interpose an objection

right at this point because the --

CHAIR: You can raise the objection. Let

“him conclude his case and then you can pose

your objection.

JONES: We want to interpose an objection

at this point. If there -- if he intends

+o establish anything by those lists that

are not alleged or set out in this -- in.

the charges here then we are objecting to

it. Now, we are asking that he show us

in these charges where he alleged anything

that these lists intend to prove or to

establish or to substantiate that he use

- these lists.

COLE: Well, on the second page of the

charges, if it please the trial committee,-

CHITTENDEN: ~ Gentlemen, I’d like to reques:

* The Chair -- if we’re going to have and oo

‘and decide what was

to legal points, and you all know each sié

is going to constantly propose objections

to everything and we expect you to do it,

so we are going to say that maybe The.

Chair will rule that we’ll grant both side

a standing objection like they do in court,

but they are going to be prac ically over-

ruled so we can hear the testimony of the

witness so therefore, @ an we come out

whether it was wrong or whether these

people have any merit to bringing these

particular charges against the officers

if both sides the attorneys are going to

come out there and keep throwing legal

a |

: =f

points of law at the three men who are sit-

ting here and judging these things, so if

we can’t hear what the men have to say then

all we are going to have to hear is the .

objections and legality from the lawyers.

So maybe we should forego this hearing and .

send it back over to the federal court.

_ So I’d like to request The Chair to under-

stand that there are:going to be legal

objections on both sides, and it will be.

Standing so we’]] accept all: your objec-

tions so you’ll have a legal right to

object. .

. JONES: Mr.’ Chairman, -- I appreciate your

remark, but if this list is reaching a --

or trying to establish something that’s

not set forth in here then we are ob ject-

ing to it on that basis, and all we are

asking is for him to show us where in.

these charges that this -- this list or

- these lists are trying to -- what they are

trying to establish. That’s all that we

are asking. -

of the case because the I.L:A. Constitu-.

tion hadn’t been followed, and I would like

to read a copy of the I.L.A. Constitution --

I mean an article in the I.L.A. Constitu-

tion which we might prohibit any attorney

from sitting in on this hearing.

- COLE: Yes, sir.

- CHITTENDEN: We never have before and we

can do it in this case.

THE CHAIR: And this is a part- of the I.L.A.

' Constitution, Mr. Gladney, and you specif-

ically reouested that Judge E. Gordon West

follow the mandate of the constitution.

MR. GLADNEY: Right.

‘THE CHAIR: On Section 40 -- I mean on page

, 40, Section 4, “Hearings on charges shall

-be held by the Executive Board of the

Local Union, by. the District Council, by

the District organization or its Executive —

Board, or by’ the Executive*Council, as the

case may be, or by a committee appointed

by such.Board or Council, to hear and

report the evidence to it, provided that

all decisions. shall be made by such Board

or Council. The accused shall be afforded

a full and fair hearing and shall have the

- right to appear at such hearing, produce

and cross-examine witnesses, file state-

ments, and be represented by any member of

the I.L.A. --" --

‘MR. GLADNEY: Right. Now, that’s -- may I --

THE CHAIR: Wait just a minute.

MR. GLADNEY: All right.

THE charr: -- "-- in good standing designated

by, him for that purpose. Decisions shall

be rendered after the close of the hearing

and shall be in writing. A.copy thereof

shall be served by the Secretary of the

body involved upon the accused or the

accuser--" --

MR. GLADNEY: Right.

THE CHAIR: So now we may take the necessary

THE

steps to bar the attorneys for both sides

out of this hearing if we don’t proceed.

with the thing.

- GLADNEY: -Mr. Chairman, I just want to

make a statement in line with what -- Mr.

Chittenden, one of the members, made a

Suggestion that we make a general objection

general objection at this time to any evi-

dence that might be-heard by the committee

which is not substantiated by the charges

So we won’t have to do that on everything

coming up.

CHAIR: That’s all right. We want to pro-

ceed with the hearing and go through with

it. I’m not going to sit up here all day

hearing a lot of --

- GLADNEY: Well, Mr. Chairman, the informa-

-tion is fundamental in all hearings where

you are going to have a fair hearing that

charges,

CHAIR: Well, the matter Mr. Cole has just

brought up is alleged in the charges.

- GLADNEY: But by making this general ob-

jection it preserves our rights in the

record so that we don’t waive that and we

won’t have to be getting uv here and

objecting to everything.

THE CHAIR: AY right. ° Proceed, --

MR. GLADNEY: Thank you. |

THE CHAIR: -- Mr. Cole. -

BY MR. COLE: |

Mr. Young, I believe you’ve identified

these lists as being lists that you re-

ceived from the companies as the lists are

- headed--

Yes.

-- of checks that they have given or sent

to Local 1830, is that correct?

Yes, sir.

How are the checks from these two companies

generally received by Local 1830?

Southeastern Stevedore, Ramsay Scarlett &

Company, and Cargo Carriers, better known

as Cargill, they mail their checks, but

Rogers Terminal,. Baton Rouge Marine, and

Ryan Stevedore, and in some cases Louisiana

Stevedore, the business agent and myself

we pick them up, and when we pick them w,

it requires a double signature. |

Now, do you have access ‘to the post office

box --

No.

== of Local 1830?

No, sir.

Have you received these checks enumerated; .

as the financial Secretary of 1830, have

you received these checks?

No, I haven’t received these checks.

What is the earliest date of a check on

either of those two lists?

You mean the latest date?

No, the earliest one, the first one.

This one here was mailed 4/10/69, and from

Southeastern 4/16/69.

What is the latest date on those checks?

7/8/69 from Southeastern Terminal, 7/17/69

from Ramsay-- from Burnside Terminal.

I see. Now, who has charge of the bank

account of Local 1830 inthe Bank of West

Baton Rouge ? sre |

‘Secretary-treasurer.

Is that you?

bank account: of Local 1830 in the Bank. of

West Baton Rouge?

Not to my knowledge.

Do you have any knowledge of any other

account for this local?

I heard over in district court that we had

@ new bank account, and I went over to the

First National Bank in Port Allen and I

asked -- I inquired there and they told

me that Local 1830 did have one.

Are you authorized to sign checks on that

account in First National Bank?

- No.

Do you have any knowledge of how much.

money is deposited in that account?

No.’ |

Do you have any knowledge of what funds

may have been withdrawn from that account?

No.

Have you ever signed any check on that

account? |

From the First National Bank?

Yes.

No.

What is the total amount of the checks

from these two companies that -- from eaci

of these companies; have you totaled then

or are they totaled? i

Yes, they are totaled individually. Sout!:

eastern Terminal, $2,160.91: Burnside

Terminal, $4,453.13. And it has -- that’s

all these -- and they have sone other _

checks, Southeastern Terminal, $7.05 and

$216.42, $54.81: and Ramsay Scarlett,

$152.18: this is three lists.

Now, my understanding of your testimony i

ve ‘i

ise

. 83

that you do not have those check -- have

not had them? |

To my knowledge I do not ‘have them.

Now, on June 16, 1969, were you present at

the meeting held at the union hall? _

Yes, Sir.

Was a resolution read and purportedly

adopted at that meeting to cut the initia-

tion fee for joining the union?

Yes, sir.

Had that resolution ever come before the

body before?

Yes, sir: not that particular resolution .

but a motion had come before the house

before. !

Before the entire body?

Before the entire body, and I think Mr.

Boudreaux read Something; I don’t know if

it was a resolution or not ; because: I didn’t

See it, but he read Something to cut the

dues and while the membership has it posted

on them -- posted on it so they had a good

cuorum there that night and they wouldn’t+

entertain it.

Did that matter of cutting the dues ever

come before the executive board of which

you are a member?

Yes.

What was the result when it came before

the executive board?

They voted it down.

Now, on the night of June 16, 1969, was

the resolution carried?

Yes: it was read and adopted. and carried

Was any objection made that this didn’t

\comply with the local constitution? .

Yes. We asked that the minutes reflect

the opposition.

Have you ever seen the minutes of that

meetina?

~ No.

Since the adoption of that resolution, have

you as the financial secretary received any

application money for membership? |

I would have to check dates, because at

one period I received $355 for applicatfen

fee. |

Who was that application fee for?

And this was on August 3rd.

Were you informed or did you give anyone 4

receipt for this application fee? ‘

I always make“a receipt in the office for

the monies or where the money belongs,

whether it’s attributed to dues or appli-

cation or check-off or what is pertains to

Now, who gave you this money?

~The office secretary.

Q. The office secretary?

‘AA. Yes. §

Q. Now, Mr. Young, isn’t. it your duty as the

to collect all monies owed the) association

by officers, members and others and issue”.

-@ receipt for all monies received?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And it’s your testimony that vo did not

do it in connection with this $355?

best as J could, and under the Circumstances

I have done that. I make out checks in my

living room on a table, on our living room

table. And I’m restrained and I’ do not

have a combination for the Safe, I do not

have-access to anything, and I don’t go

around there rocking the board. ' Now,

these lists I acquired from the company to

Protect myself, This -- these are the

Q. Outside of this one time that you were

Given $355 in application fees, you have

received no other application fee from

anybody?

A. No, I haven't.’

al @

What did you do with this $955? °

I deposited it in the Bank of West Baton

Rouce.. | |

That is as far as you know the account of

Local 1830?

When I deposit money I leave a photostatic

copy of the check and a photostatic copy

of the deposit slip, the check itemized on ,

it, in the office. ;

Now, during the course of the problems

which have plagued this local this spri

and summer when you’ve been the financia

Secretary-treasurer of the organization,

have you refused to sign any checks to pay

the bills of the organization?

No.

Have you ever refused to sign any checks?

No, sir.

- You did refuse, didn’t ry By one time to

Sign a check to President Bailey?

It == at -- when the International first

came in and they purportedly established

this trusteeship an! I was cast in the role

of administrator, and it was a conflict

between my weg | and the salary I had had.

When I-got back from the convention in.

Florida, I came in that Friday and I went

over to the hall <- Mr. Bailey was there --

and the locks had been cha » and he

was sitting in the lobby. when I came

over to -- I camdirect: I said, "Mr.

Bailey,” I said, “I’d like to have a key

to the locks that you’ve changed -and a

—

p. “ez 2 gt he ~

MR.

THE

combination.to the safe and I’m ready to

go to work.” And he told me if he decided.

I needed one -- he Said, “You don’t come

in here hollering at me in that tone of

voice.” He said, “If I decide you need

one I’1l let you have one.” And we had a

few words, and after things got to the

point we went to federal court and we got

this hearing, I thought it was best to let

this thing go and —s with it as best I.

could, and that’s what I’ve done.

But that was no bill --

Well, isn’t it «-

_=* owed to any third person outside the

local?

But the biil you have in-- the bill

speak of, it was a check between --

didn’t get Pay, Louis Harden didn’t get

his and Mr. iley didn’t get his, but

‘other than that the bills were taken care

of, and after we left federal court I came

over and I made out his check. But as far

as other bills that was paid. Now, if it

was ry A I didn’t pay I couldn’t know

ause I do not receive the mail,

and when I get the mail, it’s handed to me.

Now, if I receive them -- if I had a mail-

bor and bills came in the mail and I didn’t

pay them, that would be Something else

but I do not receive the mail; -the mail is

handed to me.

That’s all the questions I have.

COLE: Does the committee have any

questions?

CHAIR: I have one question I’d like to

£8

~ask Mr. Youna.

BY THE CHAIR:

Q. Mr. Young, at the hearing over in Judge E.

Gordon West’s court, he instructed you to

Sign all checks for Loca] --

That’s right.

Q. oe 1830..

A. Yes, sir.

Q- Has any checks been drawn on the account

to the best of your knowledge in the First

National Bank?

Mr. Chairman, I do not know anything about

that.

OQ. You don’t know whether any checks have

been drawn on that bank?

A. Wo, I do not know. :

Q- That’s all I have. You haven’t refused to

Sign any checks that were drawn on the

_Pirst National Bank, wrote «-

No, I «- —

Q- -- on the First National Bank, have you?

A. Wo, I «+ officially I haven’t been told

anything about these checks.

Q. No Some have been tendered to you to

sign ye

A. WNo. I haven’t -- ] haven’t even saw a

bank book from the First National Bank.

Q. Thank you. |

MR. HENRY: Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask

Brother Mark a question.

BY MR. HENRY:

“a You said you don’t get the mail. You have

a post office boy: who is it that goes to

the box to get the mail? ft

A. The president gets it. I don’t -- I do not

have the combination.

‘Q. You said in one of the banks that the

local =- that you do business by you and

the president sign the checks together for

that bank? | ;

A. At -- at the old established original

account we countersign that. |

~+ Do you recall what the local constitution

Says who should sign checks; what does the -

constitution say?

A.. It says the financial secretary-treasurer

with the president make and Sign all checks.

- COLE: In connection with the question, if

the trial committee approves, would offer

the local const tution and tender it as

part of the record so that the trial com-

mittee will have it. .

GLADNEY: . We have no objection to him

' Offering the constitution and we join in

the offering and ask that it be made part

of the record. |

THE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Gladney. One more

question of Mr. Young.

MR. COLE: I. have -no further questions. |

THE CHAIR: I have one more.

BY THE CHAIR:

Mr. Young, in the account in the First

National Bank in West’ Baton Rouge who holds

the checkbook and who writes the checks on

it?

I haven’t seen them. I do not do anything.

My signature is not on this thing.

I have no further questions.

MR. COLE: In connection -- I’m sorry. I do

have one other question.

BY MR. COLE:

Q. The third document which you hold in your

‘ hand, would you identify it, please?

A. This is the document here that was made up

by the office secretary, “TO WHOM IT MAY

CONCERN: These are the following items

that was removed from the safe on May 31,

1969.”

Well, now, who removed those items from

the safe? ; ,

That was when Mr. Dixon was there.

Q. Who actually made this list -- that’s what

was in the safe?

A. Yes.

0: vou socempanied Mr. Dixon and opened the | f

A. Yes.

Q. And that was made for the purpose of pre-

. Serving a record of what the contents of

the safe were at that time?

A. Yes.

-Q. For no other purpose? |

A. That’s right.

BY THE CHAIR:

Q. Mr. Young, do you have the checkbook of

Local 1180 -- 1380? ‘

A. For Local 1830?

Q. Yes- do you have the checkbook in your

possession?

A. I have one, yes, sir. It’s <«-

Q. The one that’s being used now?

A. Yes, for the old established account.

Q. Yes.

A. It’s downstairs.

Q- Would you get it up here to us?

A. Yes. a .

Q. Not now; I mean when you get through with

this.

, 7 |

92 . 4

_ MR. GLADNEY:. One minute, Mr. Chairman. In

regard to the offerings that he just made,

we object to the offerings on the: ground.

that they haven’t been identified by the

person who actually made the documents and,

therefore, they are not properly admissible

in any court record or this hearing either.

BY THE CHAIR:

Q. Mr. Young, do you have any copiés of the

Previous documents where checks were

issued to 1830?. You know, where the com-

pany has issued checks, Cargo Carriers --

do you have any old documents where they --

A. No, they -- they would be over at the office-

p in the file, but I have some -- some copies

of the ones from the company where I’ve

collected: namely, Baton Rouge Marine,

Rogers Terminal, Ryan Stevedore.

Q- Would you furnish us with those copies

after this, Mr. -Young?

_A. Yes.

MR. COLE: In connection with the objection

and the question I would like to offer by

way of explanation to the trial committee --

MR. CHITTENDEN: Before you offer an-explana-

tion, how about -- you are offering this

and we accept it in evidence. Would you

number it what you’d care to put on it so

we can know what it is?

MR. COLE: I would mark them then “Charging

Party 1, 2 and 3.” -

MR. CHITTENDEN: Any way you want on the side

. SO we'll know exactly what came from

MR.

either side.

- COLE: All right. I’ve marked the items

“Charging Party I through 4.” By way of

explanation I would like to point out that

when Mr. Young inquired about the checks

from the companies, the companies told him.

that the checks were available --

- JONES: Now, wait a minute, Mr. Cole. You

are not --

. COLE: == but that --

- JONES: Wait; hold it.

. COLE: -«- they would. not surrender them

without a subpoena.

- JONES: Mr. Cole is not to testify; let

Mr. Young testify. \N

- COLE: I would ask that the trial commit-

tee hear this explanation/simply because

it involves --

- JONES: Do you want to take the chair?

We’ll put you underoath.

. COLE: You have heard testimony this

morning from every lawyer in this house

but me.

CHITTENDEN: Just a minute, gentlemen. We

are going to say this. You heard what Mr. ..

.Dixon said a few seconds ago. Now, if we

are going to have constan+ly on this thing--

we Said we are going to give both Sides a

Standing objection to everything there

because we want to get it in and we’re

certainly going to -- every phase that’s

being objected. But if we can’t hear all

the witnesses, and we’re certainly going

to let you gentlemen conduct the hearing,

then we want to hear both sides and what

they are going to ‘say, so we are going to

allow you all the same leeway that we

allowed Mr. Cole on his time. So we are

going to accept these -- his testimony, and

certainly as I was*sitting there you heard

The Honorable Gordon West accept and say

he was. going to even listen to hearsay evi-

dence also and allowed it to participate

in, and so we are going to say the same

thing. So we are giving you a standing

objection. We understand what we’re doing.

JONES: Mr. Chittenden, we are not object-

ing to hearsay evidence as such. We are ©

not objecting to Mr. Cole testifying but

we want him to do it under oath.

CHAIR: Mr. Cole isn’t testifying. Mr.

Cole is just -- . .

JONES: And-he is certainly welcome to

Give evidence even if --

CHAIR: Mr. Jones, Mr. Cole isn’t testify-

ing. He’s only giving the information why

he’s introducing this in evidence.

COLE: If I may continue then, the com-

panies prefer not to turn over their records

without a subpoena, and when it was ex-

plained to them that this was a triél com-

mittee of the International and it was not

a court of law and has no subpoena power

to compel Stevedore to turn over-their

records, they kindly consented to maké the

list and furnish to Mr. -- we offer it for

that purpose only. I have no ironclad way

of knowing, and I’m sure Mark doesn’t,

whether this is all the checks they have.

written or not. This is merely the list

they gave us -- to him.

THE CHAIR: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Cole.

MR. COLE: --when he asked for it.

MR. CHITTENDEN: I’d like to ask Mr. Young a

- couple of questions. |

BY MR. CHITTENDEN:

Q. Question number one, Mr. Young, you said

there are two bank accounts: the old bank

account, what bank was that in?

A. Bank of West Baton Rouge.

Q. West Baton Rouge. And -that’s where you

cosion checks? °°

ome

A. Yes. - ;

Q. Do you have that bank book?

A. Yes, I have it right here.

Q. Yes. All right. Now, do you have the.

deposit receipts that went into that parti-

cular bank when you deposited: do you have

those receipts? ;

A. Yes, sir. Some-are at the office and I

have some -- I have some photostats down-

town, but the main copies are at the of fice. °

I have some photostats in my brief case,

_ but they are kept in the file over in the

office,

Q. Now, do you have the checkbook that you

write checks on? |

- Yes.

You have that: do you have the canceled

checks from West Baton Rouge --

No.

-- of the old bank account? Do you have

the canceled checks on the old bank account?

It. should be there in the office.

In the office. Okay. Now, according to

the International constitution the secre-

tary-treasurer. should cosign checks with

the president. Under this new bank account,

which they stated is the First National

Bank, do you cosign those checks?

No. ?

You don’t see the checkbook -- : ~

I've never seen any checkbook. All I hear--

I heard it brought out in federal court,

and I went back over to the bank because I

was -- I was behind on everything, and I |

went. over there and inquired and they told

me they had an account there.

Now, one other question, You stated in

the beginnino that you and Mr. Dixon were

there when certain documents were taken

out of the safe. Who. else was with you and

Mr. Dixon when that safe was opened?

Elmo Smith and they -- and they had one

_deputy. I don’t know who he was, but I

know Elmo Smith was there. . He has a dupli-

DoD > com > oO)

A. Yes, sir.

cate list and there were several other

people. .

Who opened the safe?

This fellow from A-1 Safe ‘Company.

Oh: you had a Safe man come to open it?

Yes, sir. |

That answers the question. I wanted to

know because they said that they didn’t

have the\combination. I wanted to check

and see who opened the safe.

> ae

One other question. The bank box that you

used to have, what was the number of that

bank box?

The bank box?

The safety deposit -- when you get your

mail, is the mail delivered te you --

You mean the post office box?

_7- or to the post office box?

197.

197. Under this new bank -- |

No, that’s the post office box.

The post office, that’s what I say: now,

in this case here now, you still receive

your mail to your knowledge under that

one -- by post office box 197?

QO.

To my knowledge, 197.

That will be all.

.. WR. CHITTRIDAI: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. GLADNEY:

Oh, Mr. Gladne

Mr. Mark Younc, —.

Yes, sir.

-- you were elected financial secretary the

first of the. year I believe is your testi-

mony.

Yes, sir, the last election.

The les electica. Did you support Harvey

Netter for president at that time?

Yes, si Te \

And you’ve | an officer of the union

atong with Harvey Netter as president for

the past how y years?

; I think it dates back to

1956: the local‘was about one year old.

And the people who voted for Harvey Netter

also supported you for office, did they

noi? )

Not necessarily; not necessarily.

A good many of them? .

Not necessarily. You’ll find one count

_ where one winner had 87 and one had 130.

——e

Qo.

“0.

-Q

So that isn’t indicative of solid support

right down the line.

And who ran against Harvey Netter for

president?

Mr. Bailey.

And who else ran against him?

Mr. Boudreaux, Mr. Antoine’ Boudreaux. :

Who ran against Harvey Netter for president

besides Mr. Bailey?

Mr. Beudreaux.

In that election did you support Harvey

Netter?

Yes, sir, I supported Mr. Netter.

And you’ve been opposed to Alton Bailey in

the election as president?

Mr. Gladney, if I’m with Mr. Netter I

couldn’t support the rest of them. I --

And who - elected president at that

election ;

The first election there was 4 run-off.

Mr. Netter -- in the first election Mr.

Netter was the hich man, Mr. Bailey was

second and Mr. Boudreaux was eliminated.

And in the second run-off did you support

Marvey Netter?

I won my election.

And did you support Harvey Netter for

100

president in the. run-off?

Yes, I won with him: the first go around I

won: naturally I’d stick with him the

second time.

And were you at the meeting when Alton .

Bailey was installed as president?

Well, they had two goinc om. Which one

you have reference to? ‘

Well, explain both of then.

We had one took place on -- on one Sunday,

and the other one took place when Mr.

Chittenden came down.

Which one did you attend?

I attended the last one.

Now, can you give us your reason for not

attending the first installation?

Becapse I had read a telecram that was sent

from the district president, Mr. Ralph A.

Massey, and he said that <- he sent the

telegram and he said in order to have a

smooth and orderly transaction,” he said,

“March llth is the date for installation.”

And he said, “Best wishes to the incoming

president and the outgoing,” and I thought

that telecram made it official, and that .

was why I didn’t attend the installation.

Okay. But after you read that telecran

you did attend the installation of Mr.

. \ Chittenden?

Yes: I was informed that it was moved up,

101

the date was moved up.

Now, at the time the election was held

when you were elected and when Harvey

Netter, Boudreaux and Bailey ran for presi-

dent, who supervised that election?

The International office supervised that.

Now, what date were you installed as

financial secretary this last time?

It was the latter part of February, either

' the 27th, 28th, something like that; it |

was the latter part of February.

Was that the same date that Bailey was

ins*alled as president? 4

Yes, sir.

Now, since his installation as president,

have you cooperated with Bailey and per-

formed your duties every day?

Mr. Gladney, the word cooperation is a

two-way street.

Did you cooperate with Mr. Bailey since

he was elected president?

I did my duty «es I saw it and as it was

limited to me.

Did you come to the meeting hall every

day?

I beg your pardon?

Did you come to the meeting hall every

day?

102

A. First to clear the record, Mr. Gladney, I

works for my living. I’m paid secretary-

treasyrer salary part time. I’m not blessed

‘to h -- I do not get vacation, welfare

and -- and I do not get vacation, welfare

and pension like the full time people. I

have to go down and scratch for my living;

and then I come back because no one has

seen --. se@fit why the secretary-treasurer

should be accorded this, but yet these are

burdens heaped upon him. When I come in

at nicht someone buzz and say he got to

have some checks made. I have to go and

make that or somebody has to get up at

10:30 in the morninc, and I spoke to the

new administration about this, and I was

told that as long as I take the stand I

take I wouldn’t receive it. That’s

cooperation for you.

Q. Let me ask you, Mark, prior to February

' 27, 1969, when you were financial secre-

tary under Harvey Netter, how long did

you serve under him as financial Secretary?

A. Since 1953.

-Q. And this last year, 1968, as financial

secretary, describe your activities as to

how you performed your duties as financial

secretary in 1968?

MR. COLE: Mr. Chairman, --

BY MR. GLADNEY:

Q. We want to compare that for what you did

this year.

THE CHAIR: Mr. Cole.

WR. COLE: Mr. Chairman, I have no idea what

102

the point of this lengthy examination of.

the witness is. I haven’t heard one ques-

tion directed to the evidence which the

witness has testified to in his hearing.

I don’t wish to raise an objection, but --

THE CHAIR: Mr. Cole, --

MR. CHITTENDEN: We are not going to allow you

to raise the objection. We’ve given you

the same privilege as we have the others. .

We certainly are not going to cut Mr.

Gladney off. We don’t know what he is

driving at either, but --

MR. COLE: I admit that but I would like for

the record to show this.

MR. CHITTENDEN: -- we are going to give you

the same privilege, a standing objection.

MR. COLE: Fine.

WR. CHITTENDEN: Let Mr. Gladney continue with

his questioning.

MR. COLE: Thank you.

A. (The witness did not reply.)

BY MR. GLADNEY:”

Q- In carrying out your duties as financial

Secretary in 1968, tell the committee what

you actually would do over any one month?

What did you do, what did you --

THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, might I ask a

cuestion? ~

MR. GLADNEY: Yes, sir.

104

THE CHAIR: What are you trying to prove?

MR. GLADNEY: We intend to prove that since he

has been financial secretary under Alton

Bailey that he has not performed the duties

the manner in which he did under Harvey

Netter, that he has not come around the

hall, he has not shown up to either sign

the checks or take deposits to the banks

on mumerous occasions, and because of his

not doing his duty after Alton Bailey was

elected president, the membership committee

passed a resolution which reads, “Whereas,

The Financial Secretary-Treasurer Bro.

Mark L. Young has failed to perform the

duties of his office as required by the

Constitution and By-Laws of Local #1830

1.L.A. by refusing to comply with the pro-

visions of section (d) Article VIII of

said Constitution and By-Laws, and

“Be it Therefore Resolved, That the men-

bers of this organization do hereby go on —

record as censuring Bro. Mark L. Young for

his failure to perform the duties referred

to above, and anil

“Be it further Resolved, That the mem-—

bers of Local #1830, I.L.A. do hereby

demand that Bro. Mark L. Young cease and

desist in his refusal to perform the

duties of this office when ordered to do

so by the President, and

“Be it also further Resolved, That the

provisions of section (d) Article VIII of

the Constitution and By-Laws of Local

#1830, B.A. requiring the Financial

Secretary-Treasurer to sign all checks and

other instruments for the payment of money

be suspended and that the President be

authorized to Sign all checks for current

“Se as ————

THE.

; GLADNEY: The date of this resolution?

THE

- BAILEY: June 23, I believe.

105

expense alone, until such time as the

Financial Secretary-Treasurer agrees to

perform his duties or is removed from

office for failure to do so.” -That’s

what -<

CHAIR: When was that dated?

CHAIR: Yes, sir, what was the date of the

resolution?

GLADNEY: 1/11 give it to you in just a

minute, Mr. Chairman.

. BAILEY: June 16th.

CHAIR: What was the date of the trial in

Judge West’s court?

CHAIR: I would consider that resolution

moot because Judge E. Gordon West gave Mr.

Young a mandate to cooperate with Mr.

Bailey and to sign any documents or checks

that were brought before him. I think

Since that time Mr. Young has stated under

oath that anything that’s been tendered to

him by Mr. Bailey has been Signed, and I

don’t think the question is relevant to

this case. . :

A. Mr. Gladney, that resolution you have

there was never read in meetina.

BY THE CHAIR:

That’s all right, Mark. You don’t have to

argue about that.

ee ee o sme in * * 4 P — — a — 7

106 .

A. Yes, sir. .

THE CHAIR: He is reading something there

that’s prior to the trial.

MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Chairman, you asked me what

I intended to prove. I intend to prove --

THE CHAIR: I know, but that resolution was

prior to the time that the case was heard

in Judge West’s court. You are coming up

with something old. Since that time Judae

West has given Mr. Young a. mandate to

cooperate and from both sides the statement ~

that Mr. Young has cooperated and signed

checks. \

MR. JONES: Mr. Chairman, the point of the

First National Bank bank account is one

that came into existence -- 74

THE CHAIR: Mr. Jones, we are not discussing--

-MR. JONES: -- prior --

THE CHAIR:. -- we are not discussing the First.

National Bank. Mr. Gladney was trying to

bring in a question of whether Mr. Young

has cooperated. We are not talking. about

the First National Bank now: ll ont to

that.

MR. JONES: What we are talking about, though,

Mr. Chairman, we’re talking about the fact

that the list that was presented in evi-

dence, "2, 3 & 4, Charging Party,” --

THE CHAIR: We told you, Mr. Jones, if you had

any objection to that you can bring it up

later. Let him get through with his

questioning. a

- 107

NN MR. JONES: What he is Saying now is that the

16th and opening of the bank account which

you say that Mr.’ -- the charging party is

charging Mr. Bailey with, the fact that he

had a bank account -- . :

THE CHAIR: That isn’t the question that Mr.

_.Gladney is asking Mr. Young.

MR. JONES: No, we are not talking about the

question. We are talking about --

THE CHAIR: I want Mr. Gladney to finish the

auestion he was oasking.

MR.. JONES: We are talking about -- .

THE CHAIR: I don’t want. the man confused. L

MR. JONES: -- so far as the --

THE CHAIR: Look, Mr. Chittenden told you once

before we -- we are not going to -- we are

not going to let your legal minds confuse

us. Mr. Gladney in the form of a question

: asked whether Mr. Young was cooperating

with the present .administration and in the

& First National -- the money in the First

National Bank has no bearing on what Mr.

' Gladney is asking. So let Mr. Gladney

finish his question.

MR. JONES: He related to the order; he

related --

THE CHAIR: Will you let Mr. Gladney finish

his question, Mr. Jones. ; .

MR. HENRY: One at a time.

108

BY MR. —*

I ask you at this time, deberibe for the —

committee, the trial committee what you

did in carrying out your duties while you.

were financial secretary under Harvey

Netter.

Well, number one, Mr. Gladney, that’s two

different administrations. And number two,

Mr. Netter lived on the premises: he lived

on the premises: he lived upstairs. And

as I evyplained to you, I have to work for

my living. — I leave home in the morning at

6 o’clock and I’d come down to Mr. Netter

‘+ and get the bills and stuff and make it out’

and leave it -- and leave it at the office

or either I -- and now and then I had

access to the office: I could’ come in and

go any time’ I wanted. I got off at 6

o’clock in the evenino: I could go to the

office, unlock it, go in and make out the

checks and leave there, and then Mr. Netter

understood-- Mr. Nett-r understood some

things and all. Mr. Bailey had a court

with him that was very antagonistic: he had

a court that followed him around that was

very antagonistic. And -- and when you

speak about cooperation, I did the best I

could under the circumstances. All salaries

was taised in that organization. Where *

have you seen a president raise his salary

twice in vroportion to none for the -- for

the recording -- for the secretary-treasur-

er? His salary was raised twice against

mine none. His back pay has been paid: I

haven’t gotten any -up to today. His vice-

‘ president gets $25 a week for smoking

cigars’ all he do is walk around. Then you

Speak of cooperation.

And did you refirse to come around the hall

because you think that you could --

(

109

No, sir. I did not refuse to come around.

I admit the president is a busy man, but

- he have a secretary there. I =- I go over

there and I say, “What we got here?” She

say,. “Nothing.” She’s out there: what I

might do, call her in, I say, “What you

got?” Nothing.” I don’t ever see Bailey

until in the evening, and that’s now and

then. Bailey comes over in the evening

around 3:00, 3:30, or something like that;

I doén*t ever see him. How -- what am I

supposed to do, go look for him?

‘Come to the union hall; you wouldn’t see

Mr. Bailey -- I guess you were ‘supposed to

see him at the union hall. Did you see --

‘Well, why should I see him if they got a

mail box? Why don’t they give me the com-

binataon? I don’t need to see hin.

I see. : ; , Q

What I'm going to see him for afd the mail

coming in there?. .

You didn’t try to see him or find out. from

his what had‘to be done?

~What -- what -- what do you expect for

half salary? What do you expect for half

Salary? at I’m supposed to do, hang

around the building and wait until he

comes? : !

The question is, since February 27, 1969,

after Mr. Bailey was installed as president

and you installed as his financial secre- -

tary, did you come'to the union hall and

See what bills had to be paid, what checks

had to be paid, what monies had to be °—

| 110° as ee

deposited, -- coh eae -

aaa “Yes:

-- po did you discuss these matters with |

Alton Bailey every week since that time?

- Mr. Gladney, Bailey’s job’as president

- shall not abridge. my.-job as secretary-

treasurer. My latest depeosit-- you can

‘. look at-my deposit sTIips and see how. they

are set up. -I: have a photostatic copy

downstairs. You can see the order: you .

was made on Aucust 6th, a photostatic copy

| left Tight there in the office-- right

there-in the office, and I do-not work by.

. myself... I carry the business agent with

me to pick up money, and the three of: us,

. the office secretary and the business

. What office had?

agent and I, we-make out photostatic ‘copies

of the checks each individually and we

. keave one in the office: a photostatic

- .copy of -the deposit slip, that’s left in

_ the office, and that’s done in the mornina.

Remember, the bank’ close at ‘2 o’clock.

Ask Mr. Bailey when do he ever get to bon

hall before 12:00.

‘Isn’t it a fact that you did not cooperate

with Mr. Bailey, and that you did not sign

. the eheeks as needéd to be,’ that you did

not take. the money to’the bank, and that

you did not function-as a a secretary--

Did not take what mbriey _ to the bank?

Any money that the office had and --~

The office for the local, money --

11]

I pickup the money’ and deposit it. , peas

told you I don’t know anything about his --

about his -- his -- about the other

account he has. He can’t pan this off on

me. He’s trying to switch the buck. I

know what he’s trying to do. He'want to

have it said he had to go down there and.

make out -- I made out every check that -.

, Organization had to have. I have the

record; I even paid you for the court when

we first had its I tend to all that. He’s

and got that list because I figured this .

.would come up.

Did you attend a meeting on June 16, 1969,

when a motion and resolution was read to

censure you for not carrying.-out your

duties? ‘ we

When was it, when was it, when they had

it?.- Mr. Gladney, for your information --

June 16, 1969.

CHAIR: Mr. Gladrey, I’m going to call your

attention acain, I’m going to-call your --

we don’t want that in the record; I want

it stricken from the record because I cal]

your attention to it again, that- was on

June 16th, and Mr. Young admitted before

. Judge E. Gordon West at the time he. was _

not cooperating and Judge West gave him:

an order- not only that, he Served him

with a petition on June 23rd that he must

do that, and he’s doing it now, so that’s

immaterial what you.are talking about now.

That. was Prior.to the time that he wasn’t

cooperating.

MR.

112

, GLADNEY: -Mr. Chairman, we are not trying

to go into anything that --

CHAIR: Yes, but you ‘accused the man of

insubordination there prior to the time

that Judce West gave the order.

- GLADNEY:, The man is under. cross examina-

-.tion,- and. as cw'.sel for Alton Bailey and

the officers, I should be given the leeway

to evamine him, and because <--

CHAIR: I: don’t think you Should go back

into something that’s moot in time now

because he had been cooperating since he

get the-mandate. - | aR

CHITTENDEN: Mr. Gladney, isn’t, it also--.

af course,'it’s to my knowledae also, the

£ J ’ :

point that you-constantly keep raising

here against Mr. Young, this point has

nevér been brought out-in The Honorable

Gordon West’s court on this thing, not to

my: knowledge, and J] was sitting thére.

‘. It seem if it had been a pertinent ques-.

tion that you would have brought this out

had this been in your possession prior te

at the court, I think you would have

brought tnat out, and now suddenly you

come up here with a resolution. We don’t

‘Mind you questioning Mr. Young, but Mr.

Young is not on trial; he is a witness

here, and we are trying to find out the

truth of the story. We’re letting you ail

have all the leeway in the world even .

though we’ve given both Sides the right’

for coistant. objection but, you know, ask

the questions and just don’t rile the

witness to get it. If he cives you one —

answer to it, just constantly--don’t con-

Stantly refer back to it because we could

w 8

MR.

113

be here a month, and certainly we want to

hear everybody, and both sides have. lots.

of witnesses. And in this case he Said he

deposited the checks and he also told you,

too, that he works for a living, and I

think you’ve got the answer to that.

GLADNEY: May it please the committee, one

- of the charges against Bailey is the way

-that “Alton J. Bailey has ‘handled certain

check off funds belonging to Local, District

and International for an extended period .

of time but has to date failed to file with

the Local a bond. and has indeed subverted

certain funds from. the checking account of

the said Local and has ‘placed same ina

checking account .in the First National ~

Bank of Port Allen which requires only his

Signature, all in violation of the Local ~°

- and International Constitution and the laws

of the United States; ...” In part of the ;

explanation for the statement and his testi-

mony about it is the very heart of this

Stuff that we intend to prove by him, that

he did not cooperate --

CHITTENDEN: What was the date, Mr. Gladney,

you are speaking about? The: Chairman.

_ aSked you several times for the date, yet

you have not given a date. You talk about

reading the minutes; we are just asking you

a date. | =

- GLADNEY: We gave the date, June 16th, 1969.

. CHITTENDEN: All rights Now, didn’é the

judge tell Mr. Young as of that date effec-

tive to go out and Sign all bona fide bills °

and checks and pay off what was brought to .

him? Now,. the judge ordered that, and I’m.

Sure he’s taken that as an order... That

Still does not require that the second bank

114°

account be honored, and to me nik the

judge ordered him -- now, if he is not

performing on what the judge ordered,-then

THE

that’s a case for the judge in that parti-

‘cular court. So the judce crdered him-to

do a specific item and we also instructed

him-.as International, and certainly the |

district president was there,’ and so in

this case I’m sure he’s carrying out the -

JONES: Mr. Chittenden, that allegation

from the specifications and charges should

be st ricken, we Should strike it from the’

charges, because it’s moot and, therefore,

no evidenée is dye on it because it’s

something that Fas already gone before the

court. :

CHAIR: We didn’ t bring it up, Mr. Jones.

I tried to -- - |

CHITTENDEN: Your colleague brought it up.

CHAIR: Your colleague --

CHITTENDEN: Your colleague brought it ‘up.

JONES: -It’s .a part of the specifications

and charges here now, and if that same

thing has happened before the court and

the court has ruled that it was proper for

Mr. Bailey to open the First Naticnal

acccunt -- First National, Bank account in:

order to. ‘carry on the business and. --

CHAIR: m, no. No.

CHITTENDEN: Just a minute. In all due

respect to the judge, Mr. Jones, now on

one case you Say you asked him that cer-

tain documents and things: be: stricken and

1D «

115

certain portions of this record be stricken .

THE

. JONES: ‘Then the question comes, has Mr.

and your colleague put it in there. On.

the other hand, you say that the judae in-

structed -- the judge did not: he instructed

Mr. Young to go out and perferm his duties

and sign all the necessary checks and per-

form the duties of secretary-treasurer of

that organization, but he did not go beyond

that. He instructed him to perform his

duties.

Bailey opened up an additional account

Since the hearing in the federal court?

CHAIR: That isn’t the question or rather

the ouestion here is whether or not--the

question is now whether cr not since Judge

West’s mandate, and Mr. Bailey stated in

the court as to why he put this money in

. the First National Bank in West Baton

MR.

Rouge was because he did not get the co-

operation out of Mr.Young, but since the

judge’s mandate’ that. Mr. Young signed any

‘checks. that Mr. Bailey produced. The

question is now, since Mr. Young is co- .

operating and signing checks, whether this

money in the First National Bank has been

transferred back to the union’s account.

: AS -

JONES: The question should be to Mr.

Young is whether or not that any deposit

_had been made to the First National |

THE ©

“oR.

THE

-account-- Ms

CHAIR: Mr. Young wouldn’t know because he.

never made any.

JONES: -- First National Bank account

Since the hearifg at the federal court.

CHAIR: Mr. Jones, Mr. Young Stated -- and

116- :

T think you understand the English langu

._ Mr. Young stated specifically that he kn

‘THE

nothing about the First National ‘Bank tr

action other ‘than there was an account

there.. ;

JONES: Then will The Chairman-- will Th

Chairman concur with me in this line of

thinking? That if no deposits have beer

made in the First National Bank since tt

federal court hearina, then that allega-

tion of the, specifications and. charges 1

“moot.

CHAIR: No, no. Let me ask you one ques

¢tion-since you rose the question. We

_weren’t intending to -- has there been’s

‘checks wrote ‘on the -First National Bank

. since Judge E. Gordon West’sS x- |

MR.

GLADNEY: Weare going to put Mr. Baile,

on the stand. ° 3 |

CHAIR: We are going to put him on; don’

> WOrry.

; GLADNEY: _I understand it’s his testimos

that the answer:is no, but we are going

’ put him on there to put that in the rec

’ OHITTENDEN: We'd like to recommend -- 1

are also stating that. we want Mr. Mark

Young to bring his bank book, bank state

ments, bank receipts and canceled check:

from the bank that he has signed and co:

signed checks, which is the West Baton

"Rouge bank.

Mr. Chariman, I do not have the cancele

checks thatvyreturned. I do not know

where-- I do not have access to them, a!

eee S

I’m going to say this because something .

may ‘be expected of me in an effort --

BY MR. CHITTENDEN:

MR.

-\@ question on-that.

BY MR. HENRY:

If you don’t have. them, Mr. Young, say you

are not in possession of those particular

items, which you don’t have them: just

-State that you are not in possession of

‘those items, that’s all, but bring what

‘HENRY: “Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask .

You are the secretary-treasurer.

- Yes, Sir.

You don’t get the cancéled checks back; —

‘they don’t come to you? . 2

Mr. Chair -- I mean, Mr. Henry, what I

want to say here is now we -+ it’s just --

we are between the president, there’s

something conflicting there, one officer

abridging the other. I:-do not have that.

These -- these things are locked in the

Safe and I don’t have that.

‘BY MR. CHITTENDEN:

Just say you don’t have them; they are not .

in your possession.

No. . I’ imagine they are somewhere but . I

don’t have that, Mr. Chittenden. ta

BY MR. HENRY:

Since you went to court and the judge

ordered you to cooperate with the presi-

dent and sicn checks paying bills and

whatnot, has that account of any -- from

. the First National Bank been turned ‘over

No you as secretary-treasurer so that you

would know what was in the other account’

I left that -- I-Teft the judge’s court «

June 23rd, and just as much as I heard

about my being uncooperative today‘since

I’ve been here, and that’s:a lot of time

left, nobody handed over any account to z

_ nobody told me anything. Brother Bailey

. THE

MR.

sees ‘me around there'‘periodically. He

never told me anything, I’m restrained, I

didn’t tell him anything. -I went on and

made out these accounts because I didn’t

want to get in trouble with that judge

there, and I wrote these checks out. Now

that’s since -- since the 23rd of June an

the whole of July passed; nobody said’ any

thing to me; nobody turned over any money

or any checks to me. .

CHAIR: Do you all‘have any more question

Any. more questions?

GLADNEY: Yes, I’ve got some more questio

BY MR. GLADNEY:’

‘ >.

4 A.

Then in answer to my prior questions is

it -- neither you. have been cooperating

with Mr. Bailey and you think he hasn’t

been cooperating with you in regard-to th

two offices, financial secretary and

oresident 7

Mr. Gladney, I ran ona ticket with Mr.

“Netter and somehow that done got to be a

sin, -but just actually you.can support wh

‘the

who

119

you want and when you want. ‘And every

time I come up here, oh; Mr. Netter is at

it again. If somebody stomps their foot,

- Mr. Netter done it. Mr. Netter got as

much right to run ‘for president as anybody

in the world, :and I ran on Mr. Netter’s

ticket, and I emerged, and out of that ;

election some lost, some won, but I emerged |

as the highest position on the ticket, so

it’s only natural that all this that’s

never ending would’ settle on me.- And

what -- and what’s the rext move? Process

of elimination, we’ve got to get him out:

we’ve got to move Him. And that’s a com-

mon term on the dock board, "Yes, that

fark, let’s get. him out; we got to move |

him.” And what I’m trying to say here ---

BY MR. HENRY: |

Q» Mr. Young, will you cease your remarks,

please? We are not interested in any poli-

tics within the union whatsoever. T think

if we ask you a question in order to get

the prover information you should answer

it, but as far as politics in the union

this committee is not interested in it

whatsoever.

Think youe I knew what the question ‘meant.

BY MR. GLADNEY:

I’ show you.a document marked ‘Charging Party

#1” and ask you who you. received it From

and when?.

’

- This came from Southeastern Terminal.

+ _Who is the person that you received it

- from? .* . |

- ,

120

Well, it came from their aduinistrative

department’. :

You can ‘t name the person you talked to?

Well, it came from their administrati've

department. I. imagine it’s somebody over

there: the general manager is Mr. ‘Richard

Daniel.. ;

Yes, but who is the,perSon,’ the mah or’

woman who handed you this document?:

This was 2 Calenhane onversation.

who the subsidiaries are over there,

not know.

Now, __

I do.

Who did you talk to on the phone?

I talked with the general manager, and I

-asked him if: he could.prepare me a list of

the checks he had mailed to Local 1830 over

a certain. period.

tection. :

This was for my pro-

Who. prepared the list for you?

I.do not now who prepared it.

How did you receive it, by mail?

it came by nail. |

And ite ‘did you receive it? ~

I don’t know the date on

I’d have to get it and look °

Sincting after:

the envelope.

L at it. ss

“And what period of time did you ask the

a ——E

manager for a record on the checks issued?

* 4

it bring it up current.”

. Who did you request it from?

=); oo

-I told him I’d like to have it for the end’

of the suarter, and this was after-the

cuarter had.vassed. -I asked him would he

_go back ‘to the end of the ‘quarter and get

it for me, and I1 said, While you are at

" When.iscthe end of the: quarter?

June 30th; and I asked him to. bring it -up

current and-so he brought it on through--.

You made the request’ for this document after _

July lst? ' Tey as ne ee E

Now, I have another one I made a request

from Cargo Carriers; it hasn’t got here

yet. | sass,

. ° a

The general manager. .

What is his name?

Mr.. Best as far as I know, Mr. Tom Best--

that’s Cargo Carriers.

CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, it’s &@ general proce- «

dure, not-only-in Lecal 1830 but—all the ———

I.L.A. .loéals, for. their own protection to.

call the company’s payroll department and

recuest a copy of the last part of the

payroll to see whether. they are being

treated richt. Mr. Young has done no more

than anybody else in the I.L.A.; that’s-

the general procedure. And a lot of times

you don’t know who in the heck you are

talking to. You talk to somebody in the

payroll department, let them know you:

represent the local, what local you are

representing, and you request that

(122

information, and thie are forced to give

it to you under our contract.

; GLADNEY: I’m only trying to establish,

_Mr. Chairman, who prepa» sed this document.

CHAIR: He eeu *t know? he. doesn’t know

who prepared it. All he -- he requested

them to prepare it. It doesn’t make any

‘difference because ‘somebody in the company

prepared it. He-don’t go down there and

‘put his finger on who write-- who sends it.

. GLADNEY: | Well, that’s what I’m trying to

establish. ;

CHAIR: He couldn’t tell ‘you that because

I couldn’t, and nobody else could tell you

that.

. GLADNEY: He doesn’t know -- really know

that somebody in the company prepared it;

he doesn’t know who prepared it, --

BY MR. GLADNEY:

—

-*.** do you: you don’t know who prepared

this document, do you?

“I beg your pardon? -

You do not know who prepared the document

marked "Charging Party #1”?

- Weil, whoever prepared it they had asked

us for these canceled -- for these checks -

here that they had mailed out prior and a

few of them coincide, these checks richt

here. Whoever prepared them had these and

these had been mailed prior, so evidentlv

it was somebody that knew what they were

doing, checked the number of those that we

123

wanted to check on. Whoever it was knew

what they were doing.

. Okay. Now, I show you-a document marked

"Charging Party #2” and ask you who you

“received it from and when?

That came from Ramsay Scarlett and Cargo

- Carriers: Ramsay Scarlett is more or less

the parent company, and Southeastern Ter-

minal is an offspring, but it more or less

come out the same book work department so

these came in the same invoice. :

Both of them came from the same company?

But I think these people will identify

themselves with that. :

Well, I’m asking you, though, who you got

it from? Nal

I got it in the mail.

And who did you talk to on the phone when

you renuested:it?. 3 ;

- CHITTENDEN: Mr. Gladney, you are wasting--

CHITTENDEN: You are wasting our time now.

We are going to stop this thing. We are °

going to call your hand on all of these

thinas because you are going to constantly

come down -- he’s told you' about 25 times--

you are aggravating the committee: he has

told you about 25 times he don’t,know.

Now, I’m sure that Mr.. Netter and Mr.

Bailey don’t: know: I don’t know and you

Jheard the Chairman say that he don’t know

how they prepared it and if he don’t know

he told yon that. Now; after all, once he

124

that he don’t know. You don’t have to

constantly press the question because

there’s nothing he can do, mainly because

we are going to call his hand if he does

Say it, because --— Do

MR. GLADNEY:~ Thank you.

THE CHAIR: i are wasting time because I was

going to just=-- :

MR. CHITTENDEN: ixi-+ht now let me say this.

We aiso have anocher federal court in New &

Orleans tomorrow, so if we go right now

you are just prepared to stay here until

midnight tonight, and this is not going to

be adjourned andi come back tomorrow or the

nevt day. You just might as well make your-

self recognize the fact that if you are

goinc to prolong it, constantly prolong it,

we, are going to start shortening your time

because we can’t -- we’ve got a. federal —

court in Judoe Christenberry’s tomorrow

and we’ ve gct to be there so we are going

to start shortering you down by this com-

mittee. SESS

A. (The witness did not reply.)

BY MP. GLADNEY: |

Q. I show you a document marked “Charging

Party #3” and ask you who prepared that

document ?

THE CHAIR: You are asking the same question,

Mr. Gladney. He don’t know who prepared ~

it.

MR. COLE: I think he does know who prepared

this one-- |

125

THE CHAIR: He does?

MR. COLE: --may it please the trial committee.

“s

That was --‘that was prepared by the office

secretary. . . te |

BY MR. GLADNEY:

The office secretary. Now, you testified

about the executive committee of Local 1830

‘having a meeting at which time a motion or

resolution was made to the executive com-

mittee in regard to decreasing the initia-

_. tion fee for the local union. Can you tell

us when this executive committee meeting

was supposed to have been held and where?

I beg your pardon?

You’ve testified that. it was presented to

the executive committee of your Local 1830

a motion to reduce the initiation fee for

your local.

Yes, sir.

‘When did that meet ing take place? .

I don’t know the date but it took Place at.

the hall, and anyway the executive board

voted it down. '

Well, who was present at that meeting when

it was voted down? ’ °

Oh, Mr. Gladney, that’s a ‘job. You see,

we have sixteen officers in the local.

They got. somewhere around 18 or 20 appoint-

ed, something like that. Now, everybody

wasn’t there, but it was ‘enough for the

confusion, you see, to help. confuse it.

‘THE

ets, 126

Who took the minutes of that- executive

committee?

Oh; I imagine the recording secretary.

Who is that?

Jones.

Can you tell us “eleuat when it was; was it

after Mr. Dixon came and attempted to place

the union in trusteéship or was it. before

that?

I -- I don’t know.

Was Mr. --

CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, have you act very

many more questions?

. GLADNEY: Yes.

CHAIR: Have you got very many more ques-

tions of this witness?

GLADNEY: Just a few re on things that

CHAIR: How lona -- I mean how many more

ouestions?

‘“GLADNEY: T-can’t tell you exactly.

CHAIR: We are going to adjourn this ‘meet-_

ing until 3 o’clock. at

. GLADNEY: Okay. We’1ll be back at 3:00.

CHAIR: We want to instruct Mr. Bailey to

brino the records, the checkbooks and the

a Sa checks from the: First National

ank.

THE

PSAP CELE IA HE MCI ORE IE

127

. BAILEY: I don’t have those.

CHAIR: Who has them, Mr. Bailey?

I: 1 Nave thee.

CHAIR: I beg your pardon?

BAILEY: I have then.

CHAIR: You have them?: Will you bring

them back? |

. BAILEY; Can I bring them back?.

CHAIR: Yes.

. BAILEY: I have to go to Port Allen to-do

that -- in-order to do that.

CHAIR: You don’t have time to go. get |

them? We are going to have to have then.:

- BAILEY:. Well, I mean I would like to eat

the same as anybody else -- 3

CHAIR: Just cross ‘the bridge and --

- BAILEY: =- in one hour

CHAIR: We are going to have to have then.

Get somebody to go get them; Mr. Bailey.

‘The committee is instructing you to bring

THE

them back.

- COLE: I would ask the committee to instruct

also that the.canceled checks which are in

the safe apparently in the office on the

First -- on the Bank of West Baton Rouge

also be brought back, too.

CHAIR: Right.

ey Capes

yo NS S28

(RECESSED FOR LUNCH AT 1:55P.M.)

BY MR. JONES:

‘O.

° Rs

_ THE

- MR.

THE

2 A.

Mr. Young, --.

Yes, sir.

-- how long have you been the financial

secretary of the organization?

CHAIR: Mr. Jones, --

- JONES: Yes, sir.

CHAIR: -- I don’t think we should keep

repeating it. ~Mr. Gladney has gone through

. that procedure asking Mr. Young how long

he has been sécretary and all, and I think

your-- '

JONES: That’s the only question --

CHAIR: -- question --

: JONES: That ’s the only question, may it

please the committee, that I’m going to

ask.

.CHAIR: All right, please.

MR. JONES: Yes, sir:

Since from the latter part of ’63.

BY MR. JONES: |

_Q. Now, at the time that you opened the safe

when you took thi’s organization over in

trusteeship, was Mr. Bailey present?

‘As

I beg ‘your pardon?

THE |

. JONES: At the time that Mr. Dixon and Mr.

THE

129

Was Mr. Bailey present at the time you all

got a locksmith to open the safe?

Was he present?

Yes..

CHAIR: What was the question?

Young had a locksmith to open the safe and

take things from the safe. I want to know

whether -or not --

They -- he had been over there arguing. I

don‘t recall --

CHAIR: Excuse me. I don’t think that Mr.

Young should answer that question. Mr.

Dixon is the man that ordered that safe

opened, and I don’t think Mr. -Young should

have to answer it. ‘

- JONES: And the reason why I’m asking the

question, Mr. Chairman, is that at the

time that the safe -was opened and things

were being taken from it that Mr. Bailey

or a. representative of Mr. Bailey should

have been there in order to witness what

was being taken out of it in order to know

whether or not that everything was accounted

for on the check-out list. : ae

CHAIR: Well, at the same time Mr. Dixon

ordered the safe opened and Mr. Dixon had

had conversation with Mr. Bailey, and I

don’t think Mr. Young -- it’s going to be

only hearsay what Mr. Young says and I

think there shouldn’t be any hearsay.

- JONES: He was there; he should remember.

130

THE CHAIR: He -- I‘don’t think he. was with

Mr. Dixon ‘gen times.

“BY-MR. JONES:

; A.

Were you there at the time that the lock-

smith was there? | a

I was somewhere in the.vicinity. They had

an officer or some deputy sherNf was . there

too, when that thing was opened, and that’s

not the only copy. The office secretary

itemized the things a ie had access

to the safe and she itemized those things

and listed them on there. Mr. Dixon didn’t

prepare that list. . |

Q. I understand. But Mr. Bailey wasn’t there?

-A., I don’t know if he was there or not. He

- had -- he had been around that morning

earlier but I don’t know if he was there.

-Q. Was he in jail?

A. I don’t know.

—Q. Had: you all had him arrested at that time?

THE-CHAIR: Again Mr.—Younc’ did-not- have -Mr.

Bailey arrested. |

MR. JONES: Okay. I'll leave that alone, sir.

A. (The witness did not reply.)

BY MR. JONES:

Q. Now, I give you -- let me show you these

“Charging Party 1,” “Charging Party 2,”

re?

131.

FF oO Fr DO s

THE

you see those?

- Yes, Sir.

You are familiar with them?

I’ve looked -- I’ve looked over them.

Have you read them?

Yes, I’ve looked over them. Some of the

checks in here are listed on third items.

Some of the checks they have notations

“behind them: some of the checks here are

listed on third items.

Now, did any of these checks here, did

you -- did they come into your possession?

. . Did-they ‘come into my possession?

. Yes. Did you ever have them in your hand:

did you receive these checks?

CHAIR: Mr. Jones, what are you trying to

prove? ,

- JONES: I’m asking now as tojwhether or not

he received any of. these chetks because

the charge is that he hasn’t been able to

perform his. duties, and that. his duty was

to handle these checks and take them to

the bank and make deposits as well as to

. Sign‘and countersign checks.

THE

CHAIR: What date are the checks you are

talking about? | our

- JONES: Well, he has the lists here, which

is "Charging Party 1” and “Charging Party -

2 Oa

’

132

THE CHAIR: Yes.

THE

whether or not.any of these checks have

come into his possession in the line -of

his duties as financial secretary. He has

testified that that is part of his duties,

to handle the checks, and take them and

make deposits with them and to countersigi

checks.

CHAIR: * Mr. Jones, Mr. Young is not ‘on .

trial --

| JONES:. No, he’s not ontrial. - +

CHAIR: <-- and I don’t think you --

JONES: He’s on cross examination.

or not -- if you can’t furnish the date of

the checks as to when--

JONES: Well, he has the dates.

CHAIR: What are the dates? I asked you.

What are the dates?

JONES: March 23rd, --

CHAIR: Mr. Jones, that is the time that

Mr. Younc admitted: before Judge E. Gordon

West that there wasn’t any cooperation

and since that time he’s been handling the

records, so anything prior to -- anythinc

prior -- :

MR. JONES: Mr. Chairman, -- .

THE

CHAIR: -- anything prior to June 23rd or

the 16th I don’t think we should question

133

! _ Mr. Young about. Mr. Young admitted before

Judce Gordon West what had been transpiring

before that date. What we are trying to

find out is what happened after that date

since Mr. Bailey became president.

MR. JONES: Mr. Chairman, we'did not put this

in evidence; the charging party put this

in evidence. 7

MR. HENRY: . Mr. Chairman, could I ask a ques-

tion, please?

THE CHAIR: Yes.

BY MR. HENRY:

-Q. Mr. Young, on that list that you have

there, whether it’s 1 or 2, some-of the °

checks if I could recall -- you did re- —

ceive some of those checks 4nd deposited

in the other bank, is that correct?

A. No. fhese checks in here I think that Mr.

Jones has reference to, when I was secre-

tary-treasurer and was working under Mr.

Bailey, Mr. Bailey called me at my office

one day and told'me not to deposit these

check-off checks. He’s sitting here and

waiting. He told me not so the chécks you

see in here that were left in the safe was.

check-off checks, and that was his order

as president to me as secretary not to

deposit them and I left them in there and

he had them, and I have never deposited

these checks into a bank. Now, whether

they went into another bank account I do

not know.

BY MR. JONES: ©

_Q+ The question is did they ever come into

134

your possession?

These checks?

Q. Yes.

A. -As secretary-treasurer?

Q. Yes.

A. No.

Q. Did any of these checks listed -- enumerat:

‘in “Charging Party Exhibit 1” ever come

into your possession?

x. -As secretary-treasurer to the best of my

a knowledge, no. “ |

Q.- You never deposited any of them?

A. To the best of my knowledge, no.

Q. You’ve never seen any of those checks?

That third list there that had some of

those -- some of those checks listed on

there as coming out of the safe and I —

think they were check-off checks.

BY MR. HENRY: | \

Q. Mr. Younc, so we can get the record

straight, you had some check-off checks

ani Mr. Bailey told you not to deposit

them, is that correct? ~

A. Right. That’s right.

Q. Where are those checks now?

These checks were in the safe:

135

checks were locked in the safe. When I

went to Florida and came back, Mr. Bailey

had took ower the safe, had had it opened,

and that’s the last time I looked in.the

inside of it.

Q. What checks that are enumerated, listed

here, that are now in thesfe? -

- 7

A. I’d have to see the ones; I’d have to see

the ones. I don’t know what’s in the

ratelta” safe now.

Q. Which ones listed here that you see are

in the safe?

s A. All these checks have numbers. Numbers

get confusing if I look at them over a

period of time. I don’t know what’s in

the safe now. You are taking advantage of

me. JI don’t know what’s in the safe now.

I haven’t looked in the safe since when “

I -- when I was appointed administrator.

BY MR. JONES:

OQ. Did you make a record of the checks that

you deposited in the bank?

Ae It’s -- it’s over there in the file.

w- Where, in Port Allen?

A. Yes, it’s in the. secretary-treasurer--

it’s in the file.

Q- You didn’t. bring it back with you?

- What? _

A .

Q. The checks that you deposited: the list of

checks that you deposited. ees

136

A. Thev musi be in the safe; I don’t have yi

access to anything in there.

BY MR. COLE:

Q. Don’t you have photostatic copies of the

deposits that you’ve made?

A. The ones I’ve made since?

Q. Yes. ;

BY MR. JONES:

Q. Since when? |

A. He’s got them in there. The checks 1°

Aeposited, they have a.copy of them; there

they are right over there.

. Oo Cet those checks and show which ones on

here that you deposited or did not deposit.

A. Well; there -- there they are.

Q. You get them. I’m not familiar with the

records.

A. Well,--

Q. You oe familiar with your records.

‘Ae You have checks over there I haven’t seen.

MR. HENRY: er, Jones, -- |

MR. JONES: Yes, sir.

MR. HENRY: The Chairman asked Mr. — -

bring certain records tahim. Now, I

don’t know any legal terms, but if he

srough.t any records that you want to

137

-. clarify I think you should ask the Chair-.

THE

MR.

man, and then The Chairman in turn could

tell Mr. Young to go ahead on and verify

what you are talking about.

. JONES: The checks received from South-

eastern Terminals, Division of Baltimore

Stevedoring Co., Inc., paid to Local 1830

from 4/16/69 through 7/25/69.

CHAIR: Mr. Jones, again you are going

back prior to the date of Judge West’s

order. We are not interested in that. He

doesn’t have to answer these questions.

GLADNEY: Well, Mr. Chairman, you say you

. are not interested prior to Judge West’s

THE

MR.

order, but these charges are not restricted

to Judge West’s order, date prior to since.

These charges are what we are interested

in and what the trial committee should be

interested in and you --

CHAIR: But I think -- I think that Mr.

Young stated to you, and-I don’t think we

are going to keep repeating it, that prior

to that time there was no cooperation and

he doesn’t know what happened.

- JONES: Mr. Chairman, --

CHAIR: Wait just a minute. I’m not going

to sit up here and let you intimidate the

witness and try to force the answer from

him: he doesn’t know what is happening.

GLADNEY: Nobody is intimidating your

witness, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIR: Well, you keep cross examining

him, Mr. Jones keeps cross examining him

“and asking the same questions.

MR.

THE

138

JONES: Mr. Chairman, that is exactly what

we are driving at. Now, the point of no

cooperation on the part of Mr. Bailey and

Mr. Young depends upon whether or not Mr.

Young performed his duties and whether or

not he refused to perform his duties..

CHAIR: It would depend upon. if Young did

not -- Mr. Young couldn’t get the coopera-

tion: he couldn’t perform his duties.

JONES: Now, we -- now, this is exact ly

what we intend --

CHITTENDEN: Mr. Chairman, wouldn’t it be

more expeditious if we’d come out there.

and let the records themselves speak for

themselves? Here we are going down there,

we wasted all morning, .we’ve had one wit-

ness: we’re ready to waste all evening with

the same witness going over the same ques-

tions and each of those records would _

speak for themselves.- If Mr. Young would

have deposited those checks in the bank he

certainly would have deposit slips for

them and they would show that they were

deposited in the bank.

JONES: And that’s all we want. him to pro-

duce those deposit slips.

CHITTENDEN: If he can’t, then all right.

But the case is this, we’re saying we’re .

and then the committee here will ascertain

whether or not who devosited what on this

thing. You keep asking the man there; he

does not have the records. I’m sure if

-you asked the same question to Mr. Bailey

what he did without’ havino knowledge or

having the records in his hands he wouldn't

be abl- to tell you.

MR.

THE

139

JONES: We asked him that. He is supposed

to have brought them back.

CHAIR: Again I think Mr.. Young. stated to

you that the records are in the safe, he

does Hot have access to the safe, he

couldn’t get them. Now, if you want the

records brought back during that time, ask

Mr. Bailey to go get them.. Mr. Young said

he doesn’t have then. ‘ | :

- JONES: He said he has a photostatic copy

of the ase :

CHAIR: No, we want the original record.

Why don’t you ask your client to bring

the original record?

- JONES: ---.a xerox copy of then.

CHAIR: We don’t want no Xerox copy. Get

your client to bring the regular record.

back: he’s got a combination to the safe.

- JONES: From that list s- from that list

of whatever he has, the record that he

has, what he’s got --

CHAIR: Mr. Jones, if you want the records

-- if you want the legitimate records, ask

Mr. Bailey to go over there and open the

safe and bring them here.

BY MR. JONES:

Do you know any of these checks that you

put in the bank: do you have a list of

' them?

I have a list in this record of checks

I’ve deposited since this -- Mr. Jones,

the thing I’ve been telling you all

140

morning is that Southeastern Terminals,

Cargo Carriers and Ramsay Scarlett is mail

order checks, and I do not get the mail

order checks: I only get checks I pick up.

I told you that this morning.. Now, here |

are the checks I’ve picked up, sir. These

are deposit slips, these photostatic copies.

These are Rogers Terminal, this is Baton

Rouge Marine; these are checks -- none of

these -- -these are Rogers Terminal, Baton

Rouge Marine.

Now, just hold that there. Did you deposit

the check from Southeastern Terminals

according to your records there on March

' 23rd -- March 30, 1969, check, number 2189,

date of check, April 16, ‘69: that’s for.

' $19.24: does the record show that?

He has my deposit record.

- COLE: No, these are only photéstats since

June.

This is the only -- this is the only depos-

it slip that I have is what I.did on

August 6th. Now, sometime ago -- when

Bailey first got in office I used to get

those checks but sometime ago, I don’t

remember when, I ceased to get them. . I

used to go and find them in my drawer:

they’d be stuck down-- they’d be in my

file or either the office secretary would

give them to me., That was when the --

after -- for thel first month or so or

. Maybe a month and a half after he got in

office I say that, but after it ceased to

be like that, and then I haven’t seen no

checks.

BY MR. JONES:

]

Oo }-* HO Bw

14]

. Did you sign my checks prior to June 16,

1969? ©

Did I sign any checks?

Yes. |

Mr. Jones, all the checks that were made

available to me I deposited then.

I mean did you sign any to Pay out --

eypenditure checks? .

Before when?

_ Before June 16, 1969.

I’ve been signing them since I’ve been

there; since I’ve been Ssecretary-treasurer

I’ve been signing them.

How did you sign them: how did you manage

to sign them? .

You mean checks for -- payable at --

Yes. | |

-~ Bank of West Baton Rouge?

Yes, uh buh.

I make them out.

You made them out?

Yes. |

Mr. Bailey let you have accéss to the

records and the checkbook to make them out

and siqn them?

142

‘Mr. Bailey let me have what?

Let you have access to the checkbook to

make the checks out and Sign them?

The checkbook is not the sole operation of

the secretary-treasurer.

I mean you did do that?

What?

Sign the checks?

Yes.

Have you sigred any checks Since June 16th

1969?

I signed’ the last payroll.

Have you signed any checks since Jure

23rd, 1969?

I told you I Signed the last reer

Did you Sign any seeks hkinsien June 16th-

and June 23rd, 1969?

I wouldn’t know because I don’t sign

checks. every day. I don’t sign checks

every day. I usually Sign a group at a

time. I don’t sign checks every day so

I wouldn’t know..

Have you made any deposits in the West

Baton. Rouge Bank between the dates of June

16th and June 23rd, 1969?

What is so particular about them seven

days? Sometime we don’t make them for

'two weeks.

“

Have you made any deposit in the bank

Since June 16th, 1969, to this date?

Since June 16th to this date?

Yes.

I made one in August. a |

Have you paid’ off anybody since Sui heth,

1969, up until this date?

I made out the payroll: I told you that.

During the period that this aa

or the local was purportedly in trustée-

ship, you were their administrator, were

you not? ;

I-was agent for Mr. Dixon, yes. 3 .

I see. Did you receive a salary for that

period? aw

Yes, Sire

What was your Salary? ss] |

The same thing as --“

I beg your pardon?

The same thing the president was.

. What was that? -

For that period he got $208.

$208 for what, a month or ‘two years?

CHAIR: Let’s don’ t be funny. You be 0

what it is. pine |

WR.

—?

fs THE CHAIR:

Q-

VR.

144

jJOits: I don’t’ know; I don’t know. I

don’t know, Judge. Let the record show--

(The witness did not reply.)

‘Did yousmake $208 a week?

JONES: -- Mr. Chairman, I don’t know.

(The witness did not rely.)

BY MR. CHITTENDEN:

Mr. Young, at

Yes, sir. |

-- state your answer. How much -- was

it for --

CHITTENDEN: Now, both «- look, both --

Let -= let -- let --

CHITTENDEN: No, wait a minute. Look, I

think both of you are oeeee hostile and

he is intimidating him and I’ve gone alon

far enough on this thing.

BY WR. CHITTENDEN :

Now, we want you to answer the question

honest and sincere dnd we are telling hin

now to stop --y wy Now, the

case is this, the $208, t was it for,

one week’s work? :

Mr. Jones came over there the day all thi:

happened. Mr. Jones knows very well that

period lasted one week.

145

_ Just answer my question.

It lasted one week.

Was the $208 for that week?

$208 for one week.

That answers that.

BY.MR. JONES:

-Now, did that include your expense account?

I beg your pardon?

The $208 a week, did it include your

expense account ?

No. No, it didn’t.

It did not?

No, it didn’t.

How much is your weekly expense account?

‘Under those circumstances expense account

normally provides $35 and whatever the

Situation demands.

And what would be the extenuating circun-

Stances that would make the weekly expenee

account be more than the normal $35?

THE CHAIR: Mr. Jones, ee

The --

‘THE CHAIR: Wait a minute. Mr. Young -- that’s

not relevant to this case, Mr. Jones. We

are going to have to ask you to refrain

146

from it, and let’s get down to the business

of cuestioning Mr. Young based on the’

allegations here. |

MR. JONES: All right.

THE CHAIR: You are met doing so --

MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Chairman, --

THE CHAIR: Let me get through with this

gentleman here. And we are going to ask

you to stick to the questioning and let’s

_ get through with it, but I’m going to tell

THE

MR.

THE

MR.

you another thing, we are going to ask you

to put on -- let’s get to the witnesses

that’s pertinent to this case because we >

are not going to sit here all night. And

if you are going to continue to question

the witnesses on the basis that you ques-

tioned Mr.- Y , well, we’ll be here until

Christmas, and let’s stick to the point

and let’s get through with these witnesses.

GLADNEY: Okay. Mr. Chairman, when we

came here this morning you promised us a

fair and impartial hearing.

CHAIR: You are going to get it but now

you are not being fair.

GLADNEY: We are being fair.

CHAIR: Wo, you are not.

GLADNEY: Let me tell you something.

Alton Bailey has been charced here with

certain things that are -- erroneously by

this witness, and Alton Bailey is not the

guilty one. It’s the witness on the stand

here, Mark Young, --

147 \

2Ss THE CHAIR: You are wrong there, Mr. Gladney.

WR. COLE: He hasn’t been charged by anybody

THE CHAIR: We called the witness to testify--

MR. GLADNEY: And we are entitled -to show that ~

this witness who is put on the stand

against.Alton Bailey is himself the one

that’s causing all of this trouble in this

union, and if he is the one, then you.

S should permit us -- if you are going to .

ll have a fair hearing here, permit us to show

ou that Mark Young is the one member of this

| union who has been doing wrong and causing

all the trouble.

MR. CHITTENDEN: Gentlemen, lock, you are cross

evamining, and you are whispering and the

til secretaries can’t cet it. And lawyers, as

far as this commiftee is concerned, as far

es. as I’m concerned, if there’s any charges

this local against Mr. Young, certainly

the local can prefer charges, send them to

either Mr. Massey or Mr. leason, and we’ll

be down or someone ‘else will be down to

hear these charges if so. But the way it

is right now at this particular time Mr.

Young is not on trial: we are trying to

come out here and have a hearing to find

out what the members have said against Mr.

Bailey, if there’s any grounds for founda-

tion for these charges and, if so, then

they’1l be broucht back to the Interna-

tional. But the way it is right now you

are getting everybody on trial and this is

a hearing. So up until right now every-

body including the four attorneys is on

trial and this is a hearing: this is not

this particular type of trial that you

| dis

148

agticipate and you gentlemen here are ccn-

Stantly making mockery of it by coming out

with the law portion of it and constantly

throwing federal statutes at us. And we

think this way, and if you’ve got a ques-

tion we’ll allow the the utmost leeway to

gw ahead and question him, but please

refrain from intimidating the witness and

asking ouestions that he answered no.

BY MR. CHITTENDEN:

And, Mr. Young, if you don’t know it, just

say “I don’t know,” and let it go at that.

And constantly don’t try to answer all the

cuestions: we don’t need your opinions...

If you know it, tell the truth. If you

don’t know it, say "I don’t know,” and let

it cc at that, and we don’t need any added

explanations.

JONES: Mr. Chittenden, one of the charges

‘in the specifications and charges is that

Mr. Bailey did not let Mr. Young perform

his duty e+ financial secretary. Now, its

my appreciation -- and I’m sure it’s the

‘appreciation of all of us here, and it’s

the constitutional duty to handle the bank

account, to take the money to the bank,

make the deposit and to write checks.

Now, all we are trying to determine here

is whether or not that money came into his ES

possession, and if it did came into his

possession, did he take it to the bank and

make -- ¢.d he deposit it. Now, all he

has to do is to say yes, and if he did not

make the deposit as shown on charce one,

evyhibit -r2 of the charging party and

evhibit % of charging party, all he has to

ao is to say, “I did not make these

deposits: this money did not come into my

possession.” Now, on the other hand if it

149

did come into his possession: -- and he put

these into evidence: we did not -- all he

has to do is say that, “I did receive it

and I did make these deposits.” And then

on the other hand I understand that one of

the duties that’s incident to being finan-

cial secretary is to sign checks, and we

are asking him whether or not he Signed

any checks during that period. Now, from

the time that Mr. Bailey became president,

was installed into office as president up

until this present date, because the speci-

fications and charges are not leveled at

Mr. Bailey just from June 23rd until now,

but they are leveled at Mr. Bailey all the

way back from the day of his installation--

in fact, before he was even installed --

up until now, and that’s what we are really

trying -- that’s what we are really driv-

ing at. Now, we want to find out whether

or not he has been able to perform his

duties as financial secretary inasmuch as

this is one of the specifications-- one of

the allegations in the Specifications and

charges.

- CHITTENDEN: Mr. Jones, you are constantly

asking a question. If he don’t know, the

records will establish itself-as the best

basis for facts. If he did it, the records

will prove that he did it. If he didn’t

do it, then the records also--

- JONES: But the records are Slient and we

won’t =< we would not know because we

would not have -- you would ‘have the

record and the entire committee wil] have

that record and you would take -- we --

that record is not accessibl- to us now.

It would be accessible to you after you

are gone, but we want to know--

150

CHITTENDEN: But, Mr. Jones, you’ve got

some charges here --

JONES: -- we want to know --

CHITTENDEN: Now, all right.

JONES: -- we want to know --

CHITTENDEN: That’s true, but here’s what.

you are doing. You all --

JONES: --Mr. Chittenden, everything that

is in the way of evidence.

CHITTENDEN: Mr. Jones, just a minute.

You all -- we just might as well stop the

mockery here right now because after all,

look, the International constitution, Mr.

Divon -- Mr. Hopkins read it to you. Now,

this man is entitled to counsel, and cer-

tainly Mr. Bailey can pick any man in the

I.L.A. to represent him and bring it in

here. He don’t have -- he does not have

to have an official lawyer of any particu-

lar nature in here. This is what we’re

doing. Now, we allowed you all to come in

‘here. You are making this -- instead ofa.

hearing you are going into the whole trial,

putting all of these things in hoping that

when it goes to federal court, if it shoul,

that all these thinos are going to have

bases of facts in the federal court. Now,

this is what is all wrong to begin with.

How are we ever going to get at the truth

of what’s done or what is right in this

case that’s here? Now, this is not a

federal case. We just might as well say

okay, fine: the International throw the

book and let the thing along and it will

go richt back to the federal court.

MR.

/151

JONES: Mr. Chittenden, do you not agree

with me that Mr. Bailey is Supposed to

know what evidence is going in ‘the record

against him? : :

- CHITTENDEN: The case is this.

JONES: We’re here oo Wes

. CHITTENDEN: You all are bringing these

records out. We are trying to see whether

‘these people have any just cause in this

hearing, whether they are right or wrong

against Mr. Bailey, then the charges will

be accepted.

JONES: We want to kriow what checks that

Mr. Young did not receive as financial

“Secretary.

- CHITTENDEN: You know as well as I do that

those checks are immaterial and you are

not-- you are just picking up on a point

because you think. you are going to confuse

the witness on this particular --

JONES: I’m.not trying t

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