# Transcript of Record — Anderson v. Mt. Clemens Pottery Co. > Briefs, arguments, decisions, and more. URL: https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40386450_0122%3A02 ## Record - **Collection:** Supreme Court brief - **Document type:** Transcript of Record - **Published:** January 1, 1946 - **Citation:** 328 U.S. 680 ## Text RENAY ofae ee See tage Sayers a ‘ : : 1 J ‘e ; : ~ 3 Pa 4 | Supreme Court of the ted Stats oa. Saat United States of America - IN THE , United States Circuit Court it one FOR THE SIXTH CIRCUIT. ‘MT. CLEMENS POTTERY COMPANY. Appellant, "ops. ; / Bs STEVE ANDERSON, EARL TROMBLEY, LILLIAN SOCIA, ALBERT WATKINS, ARTHUR SIBBE, NEL- SON LUCHTMAN, RITA SCHULTE, individually, for and in behalf of themselves and others similarly situated ; and ‘LOCAL 1083, UNITED POTTERY WORKERS OF AMERICA, Affiliated with the Congress of Industrial es nets Mt. Clemens, Michigan, macicinaacile - Appeal From the District Court of the United States for the _ _ Eastern District of Michigan, Southern Division. oe - + Civil Action No. 2582 ; — "TRAN SCRIPT OF RECORD {VOL. I] ~—Index and Pages 529 to 1056, Inclusive) FRANK E. sie -lith Floor, Ford Building. Detroit 26, Michigan; | ~ BERT V. NUNNELEY, Mt. Clemens Savings Bank Building, Mt: Clemens, Michigan ; BEAUMONT. SMITH & HARRIS. : Of Counsel, Attorneys for Appellant. EDWARD LAMB, LOWELL GOERLICH, : : =~ 3 1014 Edison Building, - Toledo, Ohio, Attorneys: for Appellees. & ' GENERAL INDEX Index of Exhibits |. - * ‘The exhibits, including those which were net designated for inclusion athe printed record, are listed numerically with a concise description s f each exhibit and with references to transcript and record pages in tlie concluding volume of the record. To conserve space, this Index of Exhibits has not been reproduced in. the General Index. ral Index of Pleadings Revcurd ih Page Tablé of Calendar Entries . eet 1 ~ * aes - " : : 7 }* PROCEEDINGS IN UNI STATES CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS—SIXTH CIRCUIT. - . ° . | PAGE. Ps Entry ause Argued and Submitted. LT: NN oe eT ) Onition’*. 7.2): nae i 9 Clerk’s* Certificate. ee ie teeta he oe ee. ; | ae 5 4 > / ; ‘ ~S iiekdtien. of Arthur Baxter, et, al 36 Designation of Ruth: Gottschalk, et ‘al Syageeensenenbansnn - 37 Designation ‘ot Arthur Sibbe, et ee eo 39 Designation of H. Wilson, et al... ... 41 eg ERTIES rt ten neo RELI IE rae _ 42 g —— ee eee . . | } \\ Motion to strike or fot further particulars * ‘Supplemental Order denying plaintiff’ & request for Judegnent ii . Judgment for Plaintiffs in $2, as. 74, attornsy ‘fees $2,000.00 and”. Costs to be Taxed TP" LA Pa 297 Petition for Fixing of Bond and Providing for Stay op Giving of Bond ... ....... . a ee 306 Order fixing Amount of Supersedear and Appeal Bond and Pre. 307 viding for- ‘Btay on Giving of — tw iv , fi eae : “Pose Petition for Order Dispensing with Reproduction of Phy. sical | Exhibits in Printed Record 20000... BOE Order Dispensing with Reproduction of Exhibits in Printed Record 31: Notice ‘of Appeal to Cireuit ( ourt of’ “Appeals Under -Rule 73 RY Supersedeas and Appeal Bond ..-,........... saesangionseansslih opis emsesn soiaiicct a Proof of Mailing Notice of Appeal ., Se ee Designation of Record on Appeal by Defendant-A Appellant: oe 216 Concise: Statement of Points on which Defendant- Appellant Mit. | - Clemens Pottery Company Intends to Rely. ...... 364 Affidavit of Service ia snicdceitaim laced casts ag isc tne pean acne Aap waestbn: 37% Order Extending Time to File Record on Appeal. PPro 158 . Stipulation ‘As to. Transcript and Exhibits............ arr Ree ero: 1582 Order allowing eettiorari - = cant a 154 /_ . . ‘9 ‘ 6 a } ey INDEX OF WITNESSES '] sae 5 i , Witnesses Called by the Plaintiffs . : - ‘ Record Teenacript derson, Steve — oa | he a Direct Examination by Mr. Re ey ieee 405 rey) Direct Examination: (Resumed), by Mr. Lamb. 52]: « O02 ‘Cross Examination by Mr. Cooper | “323 308 Redirect Examjnation by Mr. Lamb | Hog SBI Recross Kxamination by Mr. Cooper 6UG. + $90 ~ Recross Examination (Recalled) by Mr. Cooper. 98H 2000 - Redirect Examination (Recalled) by Mr. Lamb 14733 $500 Recross ‘Examination by Mr. Nunneley 1470 - 3025 acko, Nicholas ; ; . 8 Direct Examination by Mr. Lamb ved SUT 1974 > Cross Examination by Mr. Cooper. — . dicta, SO 1998 Cross ‘Examination (Resumed) by Mr. Cooper 916 2040 « _ Cross’ Examivation (Resumed) by Mr. Cooper. S48 2107 Redirect Examination by Mr. Lamb. 959 2183 Recross Examination hy Mr. Cooper — . 960. 218d Redirect Examination by Mr.Lamb |. - | O61, 21% . e e i . ° ‘ loll, Charles B., Sr.— . mee, Examitiation, by Mr. Lamb"... 0 Ter LAO Cross Examination by Mr. Cooper ORG SSO "reddle, Eva— ere me + Direct Examination by Mr. Lamb ... BAD L784 Cross Examination by Mr. Nunneley 2... 850 1813 Redirect Examination by Mr. Lamb ., =. g91 L848 _’Recross Examination by Mr. Nunneley 2 805 A974 . o Larimer, Karl William— Direct p Cross Ex Metz, John A.— Direct Examination by Mr. Cross’ Examination hy Mr. Lamb - . Nunneley, hel i) Pearl, 1 Floyd K.— Direct Exa Cross Exami ‘Redirect .Examination by on by Mr. Nunneley .. Reifin, itis A.— | _ Direet Examination by Mr. Lamb Cross Examination by Mr. Nunneley . F P 6 Socia, Lillian— 7 -Direct Examination -by Mr. Cross Examination by Mr. Cooper ... 4 Teombley. Earl R.— . Direct Examination. ho Mr. Lamb - ‘ross .Eixaminatior: by Mr. Nunneley_ Redirect Becatastitee by Mr. Lamb..... _Recross Examination by Mr. Nunneley.. Wishart, Jeunes H. — Direct Examination by Mr. Lamb . Cross Examination by Mr. a TLCS Examination by Mr. Goerlich mination by Mr. Nynneley ‘...... ination by Mr. Lamb. . : Goerlich |... Mr. Lamb scurd O91 701 ... 1449 1462 Tranecrip: a 112] 6) o vii Witnesses Called by the Defendant . : : : Record tranecript ent, Paul C.— , Direct Examination by Mr. Cooper. © TT a Fie Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb O74. | Bye: Cross Examination by Mr. Boos . a7" wh Reeross Examination by Mr. Lamb . Q81' °°. 22as.. Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper 8 alc wll, Charles &., Jr.— Direct Examination by Mr. Nuurieley me “1200 27 oR Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb 1227 2780 Redirect Examination by, Mr. Nunneley 1 1235 280%) Redirect Examination (Recalled) by Mr. Cooper — 1571 3251 . Redirect Examination (Recalled) by Mr. Nunneley 1472 - 3902 Recross Kxanpination by Mr. Lamb 1472 BO voit, Charles K., Sr.-- a ae : Previons Examination by Mr. Cooper 1USG 248 Direct Examigation by Mr. Cooper 3 1275 2930) Cross Exami¥mation by Mr. Lamb 1284 29755 Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper ..1294 3024 Redirect Examination (Recalled) by Mr. Cooper. 1456 - 3401 Recross Examination by Mr. Lamb 1439 = 3404 Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper. . , 1440 3407 Redirect Examination (Resumed) by Mr. Cooper 1466 - 3486 Redirect Examination (Recalled) by Mr: Nunneley 1490 3058 Doll, James R.— Direct Examination by Mr. Cooper. 4 13035 SoA) ‘ Fitton, Robert AW . Direct Examination by Mr. Nunneley ‘8 982 2256 Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb. * ".. 995 2276 Redirect Examination by Mr. Nunneley g9k 2284 ? viii 9 Record ‘Transecri Fitton, Robert A.—-(Continued) pci! aire Cross Examination by Mr. Boos ....0000000................ 999 2 Recross Examination by Mr. Lamb . 1000 299 Redirect Examination hy Mr. Pannier eae: 1000. :229 ' "Pox, Joseph D.-- ' er Direct Examination by Mr. Couper .0.0000000........1234 2M (‘ross Examination by Mr. Lamb oer acer 1254 ORT Harms, Ernest A.— : = Direct Examination by Mr. Cooper... eee See Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb |... 1189 271 Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper 22.....0.....5..1207 275 Starner, Carl— ° Direct Examination by Mr. Nunneley ..... ..... uss AOOG* ~~ Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb .......................1064 - 24 Redirect Examination by Mr. Nunneley ................. 1077 247 . . Reeross Examination by Mr. Lamb- ............. eee 247 « Redirect Examination by Mr. Nunneley ..>.-......... 1084 248 Recross Examination- by’ Mr. Lamb... ....1085 24k Stief, Willard ('.— - Direct Examination by Mr. Cooper .......... aces 1301: 320i _Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb |... 2... 1308 20 Trabue, Macon Charles— | - Direct Examination by Mr. Cooper ............0.............. 1396 | 3 Cross Examination by Mr. ee Aion 334 Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper ........... .....1430 337 Recross Examination by Mr. Lamb... cnet 334 Wright, Pierce E— : ie : Direct Examination by Mr. iii Pa ee tee tr hasan 1339.3 Cross Examination by Mr. Lamb ................. ..1362 32 Redirect Examination by Mr. Cooper _ pec dameeies 1368 324 Steve Anderson: - 929 ° A. No, they didn’t. eee Q. They could walk as much.as two abreast! A. I know they could. I havegseen them do it. . . Q. It would be a tight squeeze, wouldn’t it? ~~ ee. ae De Q.. After you got to the-end_of that aisle, wotld you- walk over a bridge across the belt.?: | ee, A. Yes. Q. How wide was that bridge? we « A. About four feet. *’ ts : Q. About four feet wide. That was about the same width.as the aisle, was it? . : : - A. No, it wasn’t as wide as the aisle. Q. Then after you got over that bridge, then would. ~ you walk along another aisle alongside of the glost load- ‘ing department? Yes, for about ten feet, I guess. * That must have beén about ten feet. . That was about ten feet wide. And how far would you walk along that aisle? ae, a0 _A.. Oh, it is according. to where I was working. If I was working on the mangle, I would just walk 10, 15 feet, and if I.was working on cups, we would just go down through the trucks-and walk over to where I was work- ing. ; = -Q. How far to the cups? ae i A. About 100 fect, I imagine. ees) . Q. After you got down. to the end of that aisle, you . would ordinarily have to make another turn to get back to your place in the dipping room, would you not, Mr. Anderson? ; A. Well, yes, there would be another turn. Q. There would be another turn? A. °Yes, just over to the left. ing’ in hetween machinery?’ 4 — A. ‘ Q.-. That was a wider aisle? A. Yes. . 7 ote | | Q. How wide do you say that was? 8 ns A. : Q ‘. No. _ 330 ee Steve Anderson Q. ee walked ‘dict down the aisle. A. Yes. Q. Well, did you have a-number of work “places it in the | ___-dipping-{ department? How was it set up, was it a line or a number of workers spread through a certain work- ing.area, or what? A. ¥es, there were workers wea on different ma- chines, you might as well call it, then on other days |. worked in a different department dipping. Q. It might be that when you got right to your dip- ping department then you would have to pick your way through the spaces‘ between the different machines until you got to the particular machine you were working on? A... You could work right over to them. Q. Between the other machines; in other words, not- all the machines were right on the aisle, i is that right? A. What do you mean, the machines? Q. You spoke of there being work places in thé dip- ping room, as I understood you, which you said could be called ‘‘machines*”? A. Oh, hell, we work all ov er the dipping room, ‘-some- times we work on tubs out in the middle of the floor. Q. If you are working. on a tub out in the middle of the floor, that would mean that, there would be other men in the dipping department, who would be more or less on all sides of you, is that. correct? A. No, it would mean there would. be a * Naa empty space around you. . What would be beyond the empty space? A. Probably: girls brushing, chipping ware. Q. Is that also in the dipping department?’ - A. Yes; well, it is the dipping a they eal it the brushing department. Q. After you got to the.end of the aisle, you would walk by these girls who were doing the brushing work, until you got over to the particular place where you were going to work that morning, is- that right? ” A. No, you didn’t necessarily have to do that; the parmsestltreccimfm > _ Steve Anderson. | | | 531 brushing. girls were working on the left-hand side of the - department mostly. - | Q. .1 think it would be clearer on the record if you would call that north or south? Aé Well, it would be the south. Q. On the south side? : A.. Then on the north side, you say then, is where the mangles were and the cup machines. : What was in between there? A... Well, there was aisles. — eas -.Q. Yon say on the north side there were mangles, is ‘that right? =, ‘A. Yes. te ; Q. And on the south side the girls in the brushing de- partment. ay . A. Yes. , . ~ Q. Well, in between the mangles and the girls in the brushing department, were there other machines or other operations carried on? * * * A. ‘ No. ' "4 °Q. (By Mr. Cooper): 1 don’t want to mislead you, Mr. ‘Anderson. You mean that the only thing that there: was in the dipping department was the mangles and the girls doing the brushing work? “A. That is up until about, 1 couldn't say pow long ago, a couple of years ago, T- guess, they got their spray machines in. | ar ast Port Q. Where were the spray machines, were they in be- tween the mangles and the girls doing the brushing? A. Well, the first one was over there on the south side.of the dipping house, that is where the first one was put wp,.and they put a second one up on the south side of the dipping house that is where -the girls were brushing, and then later on they put’ one on the—let’s see, where did they put the next one—I don’t: know; you have got it there (indicating map); could you tell me where the next one_was put: in—anyhow., it didn*t-interferé with our go- ing in to work. a — 032 ; + Steve Anderson > Q About how much space did the eiiatibain take up in the plant; was it a space as large as this room? A. | imaginé it is about—it is kind of L-shaped. Take on the east end itis about 120 feet wide, then it- goes’ down, runs west, I guess, east and west, it goes down about 100 feet, about the same width, and then it goes out L-shaped towards the—oh, I don’t know the directions, south, oh, about, maybe sixty feet—no, ‘it wouldn’t be that much, about twenty feet, then over, there is another wall here, about fifty feet; I can draw a picture of it, I can’t explain it. oo Q. ‘It was a fairly large areat ; A. Yes. ‘ Q. And when you got to the dipping department, you - would walk over to the particular part of ,t where your operations were going to be carried on tht day, is that right? A. Yes, wheré 1 was supposed to work/that day. Q. Going back to this particular day that I refer to, Mr. Anderson, let me ask you, it might make the record a little clearer, can yoy say whether or not the numeral 27 stamped on the time clock card at the extreme left- hand’ side indicates that that was the 27th day of March, 1941? A. Yes, I believe it was—it was April, wasn’t it, . ending April—no, it would be March. 27th, that is right. ee e- 8 Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Do you remember on that par- ticular day whether you drove down or rode down. with one of the other workers, Mr. Anderson? . A. Yes, I couldn’t say. Q. You don’t remember what time you arrived at the front gate that morning? A. No. 7 Q. I presume you~ don’t even remember what time you punched the time clock except as itis indicated on this card, is that right? A. That is right. Q. Was there a line of workers at that south time clock that particular morning? — Steve Anderson 4 033 A. I couldn’t say. i: Q. You don’t know whether there was or not? A. No. fae eee : Q. What time did the dipping department go to work that morning? ! A. I couldn’t say unless I looked at it. And, I couldn’t tell what time they went.to work by looking at the time card. ° ; ese : Q. Was there a number of departments that started - work at seveno’clock. | ‘ * A. I don’t know of any that started at seven. Q. Do you: know what the usual starting time was, as . you claim it, for morning shifts? : “A: Oh, there were different times. Tf we had plenty of ware we would probably go in at—he would tell us to come in at fourteen to, and if. we didn’t have a lot of ware, if we were short of ware for the -glost belt, he - would tell us to come in at 6:31. ‘ Q. As you stated, the card this morning indicates you punched. in at 6:49 on March 27. What time would you say from that-your department started that morning? A. I imagine we started at 6:46. - Do you know what_.time the glost belt department started that morning? ; “s A. No, I don’t. Q. By the way, do the people working in the glost - belt department use the same time clock? ee Yes. aah ee - _ Q. Do you know what time the decorating department started that morning? . ‘ A. No, I don’t. | -*Q. Did: the people in the decorating department use that same time clock? oe oo A. Yes, they did. . Q. Were there other departments, as a matter of fact, that used that same time clock? , A. No. T-don’t know. T believe, oh, the maintenance, I think they used it. a Q. As a matter of fact, weren’t there about six bhun- dred employees who used the time clock at that time? « fee. 534 aes Steve Anderson (A. They ee have but they didn’t. all. punch in: y : oncg They were different. | Q. -And, you don’t know what departments may have ; started at particular times that morning? ; i A. No, I didn’t. Q. . You: don’t remember whether there. was a line-up fiat 1 morning or-nét in front of the time clock? A. No, I dop’t. Q. * You were working in the shipping department that » particular: day, March oitht A. Yes. , Q.. Do you remember eal your operation was that particular day ? A. .No, I don’t know whether I way’. working on cups or flat ware, or colored ware, or what. I don’t know. Q. As a matter of fact, there. was usually a line-up waiting to punch. the time clock, was there not; a line-up at the time clock? A. At different times, yes, ‘hats was. " -Q. There were very: likely a number of workers punch- ing the time clock at “just about the time. you punched it that morning, and then walking over to their various de- |. partments, were there not? ; -A° T imagine there was. Q.\ And a good many of them followéed this same path that you described that you followed to get over to the dipping department. A. No. The decorators went right straight through. Q. Oh, the decorators did start work at the same time, then? , A: I don’t know ‘what time they started work. I just know which way they went to work. Q. Do you remember whether, when you walked down this aisle you described, you were by vourself or were there other workers walking.-there, too? A. I don’t remember what happened when: I punched that clock that morning, whether I was around or riding . a bicycle or what. Q. Yon think you. mav have heen riding a bieyelet ® @s Steve Anderson ~ © .. 030 A. I may have been. Q. In the plant. You some times would, after you punched the time clock, get on a bicycle and ride pver to. the department on the bicycle? | | A. No. Bias _Q. .You always walk from the time clock over to the ° dipping department? ee ean A. Yes. . ‘ Q. And other'employees after they punched the same time, clock would be walking over to their own depart ments, would they, not? : ' A. Yes, sir. > fe Q. As a matter of fact, there was a regular proces- sion of workers from that time clock going over to their « respective departments, were there not? A. There was at different times, yes. _ Q. -And they just’ walked along and: vou walked along with the line, is that right? ae A. Just what do yoy-mean by that? , Q. Yites you punched the time clock did you aim to’ outstrip all the others, or would you just walk along with “the other workers as you walked over fo the dipping de. - partment? ae 7 A. Wewalked along, but we didn’t saunter along. You | had to get in there. I imagine I probably had to run in there that morning. - : . -Q. Did you say ‘‘Good morning,’” or pass thestime of day with anybody else? A. No. , Q.. As you walked in? A. No. Q.. You don’t mean to say, Mr. Anderson, that after punching the time clock, you never spoke to the other workers as you walked along in this procession? A. -No, you didn’t have time to stop ‘and-discuss the time of day or anything. If you said, anything you would ‘sav ‘*Hi’’ like that, and keep right on going. | Q. You want.me to understand that you didn’t have time as you walked along—you say you might be walking t ' punched, and your sr, 036 | . . Steve Anderson two abreast through this aisle; is ‘that right? A. Yes. —& Q. Wouldn’t you have time to talk to the fellow along: side of,you. » — A. Oh, yes, you would ‘to him. . Q. ‘Suppose you saw somebedy a little ways behind you that you wanted to talk to do you mean’ to say you couldn’t ask.them a question, if you wanted to? oe A. No, you didn’t dare to stop or anything like that? Q. Your. claim, then, is that you walked right over to the department? ‘A. Yes. Q. As a matter of fact, you don’t baie a6 you,” whether you talked to anybody that morniug between the | time you punched the time clock and the time you got to the department, do you?. eaey No, I imagine I had to. hurry right vd ‘and — in there. ‘ f -Q. Youi imagine that A. Yes. : Q. Is there a wash room between the time clock you - A. No. : 3. my Q: You are sure e about that? } don’t want to mislead a There is one on the other “side. ; Do you remember whether you stopped in that washroom that morning? No. big don’t remember? - No, I never stopped that morning. Yeu never did? No, sir. & -Do you wear overalls or an apron? I used to wear an apron, rubber apron. When did you put that on? In the morning. ; Would you ever turn on any lights after you ret. to the dipping a ore Aes ete Steve Andérson . 837 A. Oh, sometimes. ._” - Q. Sometimes open “windows? A. Yes. aaa The Master: In connection with this apron, when did — you put it on, after you punched the time clock, or before. A. Yes, after.J punched the time clock. - When I got to work, yes- oe a a ce eae ). (By Mr. Cooper): Did you change your shoes, too, - Mr. Anderson? . ne et A. No,:sir. ; . Q. Did you wear any finger cgts or ‘other protective devices “on your fingers? ay preres ‘A. Well, when my fingers got sore, 1 used to put a finger cot on. . ag : When. did you put that on? A. Oh, after a couple hours. | . Q- You never. put them on before vou started work- ing? Hes Uh? . Det ey A. No—oh, ] wouldn't say I didn’t. no. I probably did. put one on before | started. | e. -Q. As a matter of fact, you very frequently did, did you not? ; ° 7 -" &. No. We got .orders one-time not ‘to wear finger cots, We couldn't feel the bard and soft pieces of ware. That wax Mr. Doll’s orders. That was what Ted Roth . told us. - i ; - . Can you fix the time and place of that? A. Oh. that was about three years ago. — 7 F Q. But after that you continued to put on finger cots? A. We put them on, yes. When our fingers got bleed ing, we would have to. 3. ; Q.. As a matter of fact, vou put on a.finger cot to make | sure your fingers wouldn’t get sore, did you not? e° A. No, we didn’t. - Q. But if it did get sore,‘you would put on a finger cot? : A. Sure. © Q. Did you ever smear vaseline on your arms? A. No, never used it. . - 2 wee 538 * eet Steve Anderson - ° Q. By the way, do you use a pail’of water sometimes in connection with your dipping operations? «+ A. Yes,.use quite abit of water. ek: Q. Would you’ get your own pail filled with water, pr did somebody else do it for you? - A. We would use the water we took. off the, top of the. . glaze in the morning, getting it ready. Q. After you got over to the departmet, you spent _ Some time getting the glaze ready? _ ih Fe. - Q. You might take a = of water off the top of the glaze? A. Sometimes three’ or four pails. Q. Did you ever walk over to the faucet to get this pail of water. A. No, we never had to. - Q. Some of the other employees 5 did, did they not? » A. Some of the girls, ves. ‘te Q. But you never did?’ hes Eup Fe A. ft wouldn’t say T never did, no. In fact, I went Over during’ the dav. and got water. has Q. Asa matter of fact, in the morning, there was --, voftem a group of people standing around the faucet 7 ting their pails of water, was there not? 2 A. Yes, that is. right. °Q. Isn’t it true that if there Would be a group wait- ing to get their pails of water, people waiting to get their whter would pass the tine of day and say “Hello” to each other? . A. They might, J don’t know what they’ said, Q. That would take a little tinie, too, wouldn t it? A. . It might. ; a Q. Going back to this pértionlar morning, how long did‘it take you after you punched the time clock, to walk over to the dipping department, if you-can remember? A. Oh, I imagine it .wouldn’t take a minate. Q. You think you could walk through these aisleways that vou described, and through the doors and over the bridge, in legs than a minute? sa :Steve Anderson ; 539 . i. i . «" _& Ye. * Si tly Oe Q. You don’t mean: to say you did it in less than a minute every day do you? eR _ A. About a minute. — Poa: -Y% How long would it. take you to put on your apron and finger ‘cots on this particular day? A. Well, my aprorf it had a snap on it. All I would do is just stick my arms in it and snap it in the back and _ it was on. n ; ; . . - The Master: Where did you get your upron from? ° A. I bought it uptown. . _ The Master® 1 mean, when you went in the dipping de- partment, where was your apron? : A. Oh, it was hatiging on the poSt where | worked. ° ; @. (By Mr. Cooper): As a matter of fact, you can’t remember exactly how. long it took you on this particular morning, can you, Mr. Anderson? You don’t know exactly what time you first staried dipping ware into glaze that - morning, do you? . Pas aot ve A. What. morning?® ~ ns March 27th. A. No, I couldn’t swear to it. _ Q. Anything that you would try to tell me in fixing the tinig would just represent, your best guess, wouldgit not. eh, : A. Yes. . . iin Q. Now, as a matter of fact, the dipping department - didn’t really get functioning until your group was all there, ready to go, did it? - A. Well, I don’t. know whether I worked with the group: I might have just worked with one girl. , - Q. Suppose the girl wasn’t there, you wouldn’t real- ly get going until she was there, would you? | A. Oh, no,-I have to get niy glaze réaily. That takes as high as a half hour. - | ae caine Q. You wanted to ‘get there in time to have pF ogg - stirred up.so that you could start production as arly as ‘ possible; I presume? ea ' A, T presume so, ves. 540 . - Steve Anderson r Q. Because the more pieces you got dipped, . the greater your earnings were, isn’t that right? Mr. Lamb: Objection. IT think it is eaaiidaiiin oe Mr. Cooper: TI think it is proper cross examination. + The Master: I think it is all right on ‘cross examina- tion. — ° A. Well, that is one thing I nevér-could find out. I put out as high as 2,000 dozen cups 1 day, and we were sup- posed to get paid, I think a dollar a hundred dozen, and the best I ever drawed was $10 a day.-* *.* > Q. (By Mr.-Cooper) Do you mean to say, Mr. An! _ derson—strike that, please. Suppose you were dipping cups, how many.cups were yéu supposed to dip ina morning? *A. Well, to time myself, I dipped a thousand dozen. +. Q. A thousand dozen? A. Yes: , Q. ‘Well,, suppose that on a particular morning vou only dipped a hundred dozen,-you wouldn’t earn as much for dipping a hundred dozen as for dipping a thousand dozen, would you? A. No, I don’t believe it, no. The Master: Didn’t anybody ever tell you when you were there what your rate of pay was based on? A. I heard it was a gang rate. How they figured it i a couldn’t tell you. The Master: Did you ever ask he’ foreman what the basis of your pay was? A. Yes, but he didn’t know. * * * The Master: You worked there tén years without knowing what your rate of pay was? A.. I couldn’t tell within $10 what I was going to draw on pay day. The Mastér: Not what you were going to draw, but they didn’t tell you how much you were going to get for . & cup turned out, or. some other basis of pay that you were supposed to be getting? ‘ A. No. T have heard a dozen different rumors. I heard © * "+ Steg, Anderson 41 they used to get $1, and then $1.35; and then I heard we got 98 cents. I never knew. ; . The*Master: 98 cents, and $1, and $1.35 for what? A. For the same ware. Three different versions. * ° ° Q. (By Mr. Cooper, continuing) You say, Mr. An- ders6n, when you first started to work there was a cer- tain deduction from the regular base rate? . . | A. Yes. ; ‘ Q. “That was when you were-learning the trade, was it not? : z - A. Yes. ete Q. And there. were meetings held from time to time of employees of the company, were there not? A. Yes. 24h Oe ar a a Q. Mr. Doll, Senior, would frequently be at the meet. ings? . st . or . A. Once in a whilhe would be there. “ww @ He would quite frequently walk out through -the . plant, would he not? A. Yes. . — Q. Almost Kory day or so, would he not? -A. Yes, sir, I would see him around there pretty near ‘every day.- " , ' . ‘ -Q. And he would talk to the employees? A. He never talked to me. 7 -Q. Did you see him talking to ‘any of the others? A. He ‘would say hello to me,-yes. oat Q. He would say ‘‘Hello’’. to you. Now, at these meet ings there was disenssion about conditions in the shop, . was there not? , * tions or complaints, to come right into the superintendent and make them? .« © : , _ A. Yes, we were told that. NESE Ae *Q. As a matter of fact, you-nevér asked any question as to the rate at which you were being paid, of the super- intendent? ees Q. Isn’t it a fact you were told if you had any ques-° * . | x X. 542 _ Steve Anderson A. No. * 2©¢-e8 ; Q. (By Mr. pee tae never asked’ Mr. Doll whies your rate was, either? Q. As a matter of fact, when you were doing sie jobs you were paid at a gang rate and on other jobs you were paid according to what you yourself had done, -isn't that right? A. I don’t know. : Q. How did-the company .determine how many pieces you made in figuring out how much your earnings would bet Mr. Lamb: Objection. A. That is samething I never could find out. f\N Q. (By Mr. Gpoper) Isn’t it true, as a matter of fact, / that they took your eoint as to how many pieces you had made? A. They obviously did. The Master: They took your own count? A. Yes. } . Q. (By Mr. Cooper) And you were paid on the basis of your own count as to how much work you: had done, ae that right? 7 “T don't know how they did, how they paid us. The Master: Did you submit an account every week to the company ofthe amount of pieces you turned ‘out? No, every day the girls would turn it in. That is on-eups. Then on flat work I used to keep track myself of how many dozens I dipped. -_ - The Master: And the company took les word on that? . A. Yes eee Q. (By Mr. Cooper) And in the case of cups; “the ‘ company took the girls’ count? - . A. Yes. . Q. Fmean that in certain types of dipping operations, you were paid on the basis of a so-called gang rate, and * OR ‘other dipping operations you were paid on the> basis of your own individual production, ware you not? A. Tf don’t’ know whether I was or not. z Q. And you-'want the Court to believe that you worked ~for The Mt. Clemens Pottery Company for ten years and ‘did not at any time know the rate at which you were being paid? : i A. That is right... , - Q. And you never asked either the superintendent or Mr. Doll as t6 what that rate was? » "A, No. ‘ * ; Q. And it was always just a surprise to you when you got your pay check, to see’ what it might be? . A. .Yes, it was. In fact, it was a surprise to all of us. Q. You didn’t know whether you. were being paid .on an hourly rate or on a piece rate? — | 6 A. We had no way-of telling, — , ae -Q. And you didn’t-know how many hours you had worked? ; woe . ~“ A. That is right . | a - Q. And you just took whatever was given to you? A. We had to take whatever was given to us. Q? Do. you smoke, Mr. Anderson? — ar A. ' Yes. ; Q a were you not? the toilet; ves. * * *. est -Q. (By*Mr. Cooper) In any event, if you did leave your work place for a few minutes during- the morning, you wouldn’t punch out, would you? A. No, sir, that is when we went to the toilet. Q. What time did you quit work at noon? A. Oh, different times, sometimes we would quit at five and then other times we would work until after 12. off your aprons, I presume? ’ A. Yes. 3 7 'Q. Take off, your finger cots? . Steve Andersons |. 543 _ As a mattér of fact, you were free to leave your . ‘work place during the morning any time you wanted to, : ‘ 7 : ® ‘ A.- What do vou, mean, smoke? We were free to go to- minutes to 12, we Would runpalong' like that for a while, Q. And when you stopped work, you would then take ot?" oo ~ Stete Anderson. A. Yes, take off the cots and run for the elock. Q. Would you wash up right there? A. Stick your hands. in the water. ° . Would the whole dipping department quit work at the same time?. A. Well, lots of ‘times they would send thie ee - girls out ahead of us; T don’t’ sa¥ alk the time. _Q. Sometimes the whole de partment stopped at once! - A. Yes. Q. And you would all walk over toward the time clock? A. We used to rin; we pretty near knocked Mr. Doll down one day. — Q. You were in a hurry to get out. Some days other departments would be stopping the same time at the noon *. recess, would they not? A. No,.as a rule, we got through say before 12 the. belt would work after 12, that would be so there wouldn't be a. congestion at the clock. Q. As a matter of fact, isn’t it true when the whistle o blew everybody would start right aff for the clock and there would be a line-up at the clock again? A. -No, our. foreman even put a bell up in. our depart. — ment so we wouldn’t quit until he rang the bell; when he rang the bell. we would go. i Q. There would be a line-up at the clock as von were going out? ° : ‘ A.. No, he would ring the bell so thete wouldn’t be a line-up, he would stand there with his watch. ’ Q. You mean there was never a line-up? A. I wouldn’t say ‘‘never.’’ Q. Sometimes there was? A. Oh, yes. ; : Q. Going back to’ Mareh 27, you wouldn’t remember whether there was on that day or net? © A. I think on March 27, if you look ‘at it close, | “punched out at 11 something. The Master: Would you remember whether there was - a line-up, was the question. Steve Anderson . 545 A. No, I couldn't say. i F . (By Mr. Cooper) After you ate lunch you would come back.to the dipping department again for, the after- noon’s work,-is that right? ; “A. No, we would get our lunch and then smoke a ‘cigaret in the dressing-room there, and whatever time the foreman told us to.go in we would go to the clock and __ punch in. : > Q., Yow weren't in any particular hurry, you had time to eat your lunch and have a smoke and talk a while? A. ‘Oh, yes. , -Q. And then you would ring in and follow the same path back to, the dipping department that you had followed -in the morning? | ; ; A. Yes. i. ; °Q. And again you wouldn't know exactly how long that might take you? a A. Ne, I wouldn't. Q. And there would be— “A. (Interposing). What do you mean, how loug it would take wwe to what, get in? Q. You don’t know exactly how long it wouldbe from .the time you punched the time clock on March 27 after lunch until the time you were dipping cups again? . A. Well, right offhand J couldn't, say without looking at the card, I don’t believe I worked in the afternoon, did I? | The Master: Exhibit ‘‘LL,’’ I believe. Mr. Cooper: I had. it. ; ‘ Q. (By Mr. Cooper) The time. clock card indiéates- you punched in‘at 12:34 that afternoon, does it. not? - A, Yaa *.°°¢ See . i 5 Q. (By*Mr. Cooper) . Showing you again, Mr. Ander- son, Exhibit 1-LL, and directing your attention to the figures appearing in the column on the extreme right- hand site, you have seen those figures before, have you not? A. Yes. j = ] . 346 s Steve Anderson As a matter of fact, every day when you as the time clock the figure for the preceding day would ® written in there, would ‘it not? A. Yes. Q.—You know what that represented, do you not? A. Well, it represents the hours the company claims | worked, but not the hours shown on the time clock.- Q. In other words, it “doesn’t represent the elapsed time between the time you punched in in the morning and punched out after. work, but it indicates the hours worked? ° Mr. Lamb: Just a second. I. believe— The Master: He is asking the witness a question. Mr. Cooper: Just another attempt at telling the wit: | ness what his answer should be. Mr. Lamb: What are you trying to tell the aces in * the question. He says ‘‘in other words it indicatés the time, you worked.’’ The .Master:. That is a question the witness can answer. any way he sees fit. Read the question. . ‘(Questicn read by the reporter.) Mr. Lamb: It is the company’s computation, The Master: That is a proptr question and the witness can answer it. Neer Mr. Lamb: All right, there is an objection to it. The Master: I will overrule the objection. Will vou ariswer the question? Do you want it read again? | A. Yes. (The question was repeated by the reporter.) A. No, it doesn’t indicate the hours worked. - Mr. Nunnelev: Mr. Lamb has testified. The Master: I frankly think that objection was in * the nature of testimony. ° eve Q. (By Mr. -Cooper, continuing): You state, then, Mr. -Anderson, that this figure over here was only the com- pany’s compnfation as to the number of hours you worked? A. . Yes. Q. How many hours do you claim you actually. worked on March 27 ? Steve Anderson 547 A. May I have a pencil? The Master: What did you say? A. May.I have a pencil? | The Master: Yes. (Handing pencil to the witness.) A. (Figuring on paper):. About 8%4 hours. Maybe ! made a mistake; I don’t know. Just a minute, here—yes, that is right. ; ‘ Q. (By Mr. Cooper) : Is it your claim, in,other words, Mr. Anderson, that you start to.work the minute you punch the time cloek? | _ A.- Yes, that is what I think. . a Q. You claim you were working, in other words, when you were walking along the aisles between the time clock and the dipping department? ‘ A. Yes. . . Q. And that if you stopped to say hello to somebody as you were walking over there, you were working then? - A. I don’t think T-stopped to say hello to anybody. Q. You don’t remember whether you did that day or’ not? A. No, I don’t think IT did. ne! °Q. You don’t remember whether you did that day or not? se * # e : A. I never made it a practice of talking to anybody -when I went to work. ’ - Q.. But, on that day you are just guessing, aren *t you, - whether you did or whether you-didn’t? - . No. T am pretty sure I didn’t.’ How can you remember that particular day? Well, I can remember as a rule. _ . Do vou remember what the weather was like that - Orop day? . A. No. : .. Remember what you were dipping that morning, whether it was cups or flat ware? A. No. ° ; e i Q. But, you remember you didn’t stop to say hello to anybody as you were walking over there? A. T can’t remember that I didn’t. I just say as a rule > ~ 548 Steve Anderson I did not. We just went about our business going to work. J. You can’t: remember that you didn’t that particu- lar morning? A. Well, I am pretty sure I didn’t. Q: You figure that you were working if you spent a little time opening windows, or turning on lights? » Yes, I did. Putting on»your ie Yes. Mixing: up your glost? . Yes. - Taking water off it? Yes. If you went over to get a pail of water ‘il waited at the faucet, you figured you were working? . A. That was my work. ‘Tf the company ‘did not hiave a big enough faucet for the people to get at, and get bach, tbat was their hard luck. | Q. And you figured you were working if you sialon dipping and took off your. apron’ and xe your, hands in the department there? A. I never washed my hands, j just gave thee a rinsé., Q.. You figured you were working when you were rins-, * “ing off your hands? — A. In fact, I rinse off my hands quite a few times dur- ing the day, and my face. Q.:. Well, you figure you were e working when vou rinsed your hands there? : erererer sd A. Yes. -~"~Q. And when you were ae back out to’ the time es & clock? aes Q. Asa nftter of fact, you don’t know just how long any of those operations took, do ‘you? A. Just what do you mean? Wash my hands and face? Q. Walking over. A. ‘I washed my face robiaaty every 15 minutes. / Q. I say, you ¢ don ’t know just how much time‘you spent | that day walking over from the time clock to your de- partment over the ‘route you described, and putting on . = Steve Anderson | | 049 your finger cots, putting on your work apron, turning on lights if you turned them on; speaking: to other workers if you spoke to them. : A. No, I haven’t figured it out. * * ° Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Now, Mr. Anderson, when you __-were engaged in dipping cups, you worked in teams con- sisting of a man and three girls helping him; did you not? iv. xA. Yea. : | Q And suppose that you stopped to wash your tace or left your place of operations during’ the morning, that would slow up the work of the girls somewhat, would it | not? - tf : - ; A.. Well, the girls most generally went with us. Well, — they didn’t go with us, but they went at the same time. Q. And it they came back a little later, operations would be pretty slow until the whole gang was back ready to start, isn’t that right?. : A. Yes. : - Q° The same thing would be true in the morning, would it not, that you couldn’t get going good until your group was there? + ee es. A. Weil, our group was always there by the time we -got ready to go. \ : | 7 Q. You wouldn’t be- ready to start operations until your group was there, is that right? ; | / A. What do you mean, until the girls were all there, you'mean dip? 3 Q. Going back, I think I asked you whether it was not a fact that if, say, two of the girls didn’t. show up some morning, production in your particular group would be very slow until those two’ girls either arrived or were weplaced with somebody else, isn’t that true? A... Well, they would send two girls over right away if _ they didn’t show up. - : mo Q. If they could find them, they.would send two girls to replace the two that didn’t show up’ es A.” They always had girls to spare, And if we were short, we washed ware. : \ Q.. If one of the girls that morning did not punch in .« | until 6:59, probably operations would be held up & little | bit until she was there? . 900 ©. Steve Anderson y Most likely I ‘would be washing’ ‘wear until they. gt im. . Q. You. might be washing wear? A. Yes. ; 5 Sag fou Q. But so far as dipping goes, you probably’ really wouldn't get started dipping until that gir! got over, there, would you? A. No, but I would be working just the same. Q. Now, I have asked you a number of questions re. lating to just “what you did on Mareh 27, 1941. Wouldn't it be true that if I took, say, the next day, and asked you those same questions about just what vou did after you punched the time clock, your answers would be the same for the next day as for that particular day? A. Yes, I imagine it ‘would be. ; Q. In other words, you can’t distinguish between, days. but you are Just av eraging’ things up and giving us your hest guess? . A, Yes. Q. Do you eemember how. much: money you waren .dur- ing the year 1938, Mr. Anderson? , ‘A. No. Q. Showing you Exhibit 2, pointing out a you a figure . written in pencil, at the bottom of this column headed: ‘*Social Security Deductions,’’ the figure being $2,282.23," does that refresh your recollection as to what your. annual earnings were. . A. I imagine | made about that much. Q. (By Mr. Cooper) : And would vou say, Mr. Ander-. son, that in the vear 1939 vour annual earnings were ap- proximately $2, 400? A. Yes, I imagine so. Q. Would you say for the year 1940 your actrfal ear- ings were approximately two thousand three hundred and some-odd dollars? A. This is it here ( indicating) ? Yes. _ .Q. You think that is about what you earned during the year? Steve Anderson 51 A.. That must be it because it is on there. 1 wouldn’t — say-it wasn’t. 1 wouldn't swear it was. se Q. As a matter of fact, your average rate of earn- ings were a dollar an hour or better during all hat tume, weren’t they? — ; . ~A.° Yes, T imagine so: It went as high as $1.40, 1 be- Relea _ | | ) .Q. (By Mr. Cooper): .How frequent were your pey- days, Mr. Anderson? - 3 A. ‘Every other Friday. Q. Each pay would cover a two-week period, is that right? a A. Vou : ‘ : , Q. ‘Does Exhibit 2-A refresh. your recollection on the question as te whether or rot’in the year 1939 you had a pay ending August 8? 7 aoe A. 1 ecouldn’t say for sures} imagine I did. e Q. And another pay ending two weeks later, on Au. gust 22? A. Yes, ] imagine so. ~ ty ~ Q. And.apparéntiy on that pay you received $102.451 A. Yes. ihe ile Q. And then again on September 9, 1939, you had an- - other pay? A . ; A. -I] guess so, yes.” a, Q. In between those two, and on August 25, 1939, you also received money aggregating $43.89, did vou not? A. Yes, I guess so. +: Q. Now, that didn’t represent payment ‘for work per- formed between August 22 and August 95,.did it? °° ° A> Three days—I don’t know; say, maybe that was our share inthe earnings they told us so much about. Q. Yes, as a matter of fact you got that as extra com: pensation, didn’t you? | Mr. Lamb: Just a second, an objection. A. I wouldn’t know. ones ar © The Master: You are speaking ‘‘you got a share in the * 7 552 i | Steve Anderson earnings as extra compensation, ”’ or that particular amount, compensation? . at A. Was that when I was on my vacation? The Master: Did you-get a share in the earnings from time to time? A. That is what Mr. Doll said it was; he didn’ ; wait to call it ‘“‘bonus.”’ - * The Master: It was a rawr thiat” was ik addition to “your regular pay checks? “ea 7 Yee CO ‘i he-.Master : tee time? A.: Yes:. The Masters P Steve Anderson — * 553 “February 19, 1942 ._.™ ST EVE“ANDERSON, thovensen resumed the staid as “witness hereim, and having , been previously duly sworn, tebitfied partner: as follows: . - ra The Master: All right, go dient, Mr. Cooper. ‘3 Before we proceed I would like ‘to ask two or three questions here to get this testimony straight. Did I understand you to say ‘when you came in the ‘morning to the plant there was usually a- _— -up in front of the time clock? : The Witness: -Oh, I never matieed when I came to the plant. You see, the time clocks are down from the dress- ing room. ‘The Master: Weil, when you got baters the time clock, in the morning to check im, was there usually a line- up? The Witness: No. There were probably three or four waiting, Of course, if | came in ‘what they call late, there would be. a line-up. | | The Mastef: I beg your aan The Witness: Sometimes when I would be late there would be. another shift. : The Master: How was that worked? What time was the time clock open if the shift staried according | to the company at 7 o’clock? — The Witness: The time clock was never locked or any- thing: it was always open. The Master: Was there a forenran standing ‘there in frint of it, or some watchman? The Witness: There used to be a watchman .over there, tut he was never there at any specified -time. The Master: Could you go through at any time you came? - ‘ ih hy rd s - 554 a Steve Anderson - The Witness: Oh, you didn’t want to get caught going: through at any, time you game. The Master: If the company said that the shift is to . begin at 7 on a particular niorning, could you get there at 6:30 and punch the time clock at that time? oe The Witness: No. ° : ies The. Master: When could you first punch it? The Witness : If they said to, be anes at 7—they never told us— The Master (Interposing) : If. de shift, according tu the company’s idea of what a‘shift ig started at 7, what- time could vou be theres What time mnuld you punch the~ time clock then? ' The Witness: You couldn’t wisi it until they told you to. The Master: Well, what time did shifts normally start there in the morning? ' The Witness: They started from about 6: 31. on.. If .. they told you to puneh i in at 6:31 andyyou punched in at 6 30, the foreman would be right over ‘there to raise the devil. ‘The Master: Did the foreman tell you from ‘day to day when to. punch in the next day? The Witness: As a rule, ves. He would come along and sometimes we would run .probably a week or so—he would say punch‘in at 14 to until I give you further no- tice. The Master: Well, then, suppose Se said to ieaih in® at 14 to. Suppose you came at 15 to; what would happen! - The Witness: What do you mean, 15 to? They would raise the very devil. They would likely give you the week off. The Master: Would you be ‘able to punch the ‘dock at’ that time, 15 minutes to the hour, if you were to come at 14 to? ai The Witness: No. The -Master: Was there somebody ee to prevent von from doing it? . + s m . ' - ; Ne , e Steve Anderson . __ = 555 . The Witness : No, there was nobody there. The Master: It was just-you-knew you weren't sup- posed to do it, and didn’t® ~. ° ; The Witness; Yes. . The; Master: Did your whole* department punch the _time clock as a unit at one time? Be : The. Witnggp No. Sometimes we did and then most. generally the ishing. department would be behind on wear so they would go in ahead of sus. They would go in probably 15 minutes before we did. is ‘The Master: When your department would go in, did you all go in together? Was that the custom? | The Witness: Yes. y. The Master: And separately from tife other depart- ments? Mm =e: The Witness: Yes. ¢ The Master:. Well, how many were there in your de- . partment altogether? p ~The Witness: Oh, I should a about 75, 1 imagine. | he Master: Now, when 75 men, got there, men and women got there 14 minutes/to 7:00, how long would it take you to get through the time clock and all of you get punched in? . The. Witness: Oh, I imagine it wouldn’t take over at the -most a couple of minutes. | > . The.Master: Do you know, after your departme went in, as to whether there was another departmenr w iting there to go in? . +The Witness: Oh, yes. ; - The Master: Immediately after you got through? The Witness: The packing shed used fo go in after we did. What time they punched in, T don’t know. £ ~The Master: It took you about two. minutes: to punch in, and then you stated the other day as to how long it took. you from the time—that is, T should say it would take 2 minutes for the whole department, you estimate, to punch in, and how long did you say you thought it would take to walk from the clock after you pad punched in to your particular aay at } ® » | 556 | ~ Steve Anderson The Witness: It would be less than a minute, Ti imagine. The Master: What was this department that _ hed in after you did? | > The Witness: The packing shed. & One Xi The Master: The packing meat . i The Witness: Yes. The Master:- Do you inaie if any other departments punched in after they did? : . *. ~ . "The Witness: 1 couidn’t tell you. . . = The Master: Go ahead, Mt. Cooper. | Cross Egamination .(Continued) By Mr. Cooper : Ai. Q. I presume you knew most of thespeople who worked in: the Shipping department? _ A. Well, yes, 1 knew quite a few of them. *Q. You were good friends with a lot of them, weren't . you? Ay Yes. ; Q. . And as you told me‘ the other day, you would fre- . quently get down to the pam before quarter to seven in the morning? A. Yes. : Q. And you would sit around and spend the time of day ta ing? A Dee Q. I suppose you would teondantty sit around with people you knew in the Dipping department, and sperd the time of day talking? . A. I would sit around with a few of them; yes.” Q. And after the time clocks were opened, you would go through and punch the time clock? A. What do you mean, after they were opened? Q. Well, suppose that you got there at 20. minutes to ° 7:00, could you have. gone through the time clock at that time? ‘ 7 P se 4 A. No, we cBuldn’t. ies * 2 No. . Not unless. we were teld to. 1 ° & a vw, . ag ey \ . Steve Anderson | Sl Aa Q. It wasn’t yntil the scien opened the clocks, so to speak, that you could go through, was a A. I don’t, know what you mean by that, opening the- clocks. - . Q. Where would the watchman stand up-until 14 min- utes to 7:00? » A. Qh, he might be ddwn by the clocks and he might be some place else. - Q.. As a matter of fact, ‘Hie was posted there mostly to keep order, was he not? A. Yes, I guess he was. Q. It wasn’t the foreman of your department, was it? A. Well, the ‘foreman of our department, he was standing around there quite a bit. Quite a few ‘of the other foremen were standing around there sometimes. Sometimes they would be in their departments, toot ‘AY Yes. _ Q He was ordinarily, was he not, a sort.of a wateb- man who would be standing near the time clock? ‘A. Yes, I guess there was. Q. You knew you -couldn’t ring in at the time check any earlier than 14 minutes to 7: 001 ; A. * That is right. Q. When it came time ‘to ring in at a time clock, you would go and pick your time elock card ‘out of the ‘rack, would you not? : A. Yes. Q. -It would be in a numbered slot, would it? - A. Yes. ~Q. You would find it that way? 2 Q. And. there would be, -I suppose, about 20. people getting’ out their clock cards at about the same time, would there not?- ; on . A. There. might be, yes. © ? Q. Tf your’ claim is that all your ener’ went in . at once? A: If they all went in at once, yes. Q. Or didn’t ‘they necessarily all go jn at once? A. No, ma didn te ar ‘ 558 | | Steve Anderson | Q. They would be more or less: strung out over a period of ints’ A. I guess so, yes. . As a matter of fact, sometimes people working in the glost ‘belt department would be punching in at that «same time clock, just about the same time the boys in your department were going in, would they? _A. Sometimes they would, yes. -Q. In other words, sometimes they could punch in at’ i4 ininutes to 7:00 as well as your department coulil’ A. heanstines, as ‘a rule, yes. They would let the men | punch in and make us punch in according to where our: ware was. Q. And sometimes the glost warehouse would be per. mitted to punch in at that 14 minutes to 7:00, too, would they not? e A. The glost warehouse? Q. Yes, don’t you have | a department there by that — name ? ae A. No, I don’t know of a glost warehouse. ot Q. Maybe’ I.can get a. better name for it. Would the term ‘‘glost ware room’ ’ straighten it out; do you know . what the glost ware room wast A. I don’t remember a name lite ‘that. Q. Do you know af the chippers? ” A. Yes. Q. The chippers sometimes would start going in at . 14 min tes to 7:00, would they not? Pe A. I wouldn't say they did; I imagine they did some- times. Q. Do you have any idea how many employees there . were working along this glost belt? A. No. Q. Don’t know whether there were 50 or 100? A. No, IT don’t. Q. Have no idea at all? A. No, -° Q. Do you have any idea. how many: chippera there Steve Anderson 559 ‘\ AY No, I don’t have an idea of that, either. | All you would know wou!d bé on these certain morn. ings there would be more persons than the persons in your dipping department taking out their time clock cards and ringing in? | A. IT never noticed what was behind me, or anything like that. | Q. You never noticed what? A.. What was behind mé. 5 ‘Q.. Well, did you notice who was ahead. of yout A. Yes. Q. Would there be people working ihgthese other de- partments just ahead of you at the time ‘Net sometimes ? A. Yes, when .I came in supposedly late [suppose there was. f Q. But’ you usually didn't’ come in later than 6:46, did you?. a A. ‘Sometimes | came inat 7:01.- ‘ Q. Sometimes vou came in just at 7:00, didn't yyut A. ‘Sometimes, yes: I wouldn't say just at 7:00. Q. You wouldn't say you didn’t? A. No, f inight have been late, pr something like that. — Q. You don’t really know then how many employees may have been punching in at this time clock between 14 minutes to 7:00 and. 7:00 then? A. No, the only thing IT knew is I would say ‘*what | time did you punch in,’’ aid somebody would say ‘s7 31,” ér “6:14,"" or something like that. Q. As a matter of fact, there may have been 4s many as-two or three hundred in the glos{ belt dipping denart- ment, the decorators, and the other departments, all going through that same time clock then beween 14 minutes to, 7:00 and’ 7:00, wouldn’t there. i A. I don’t think eo. Q. Do you think that employees working along the glost belt department go in between 14 to 7:00 and 7:00? A. T couldn’t say. . Q. You just said a little while ‘ago, if I understood you correctly, sometimes they did? | , 560 Steve Anderson . A. Which morning do- you meant Q. I am not. talking about any particular morning; were there some mornings when they did? ~ ' A. I don’t just know what you mean by that; I imagine there were mornnigs when they came in at 14 to, yes. Q. You imagine there were mornings when they came - in at 14 tof A. Yes. ‘Q. It might have been on the same mornings that vou came in at 14 to, is that right?. A. Well, it might have been. Q. Of course when you say ‘‘came in at 14 to," vou don’ mean that you rang the time clock at exactly 14 minutes to 7:00, do you? A. No, you couldn't punch at exactly 14 to, no. Q. You couldn't all punch at the same time? A. No. Q. As a matter of fact, if you had a group. of em- ployees picking out their time clock eards and then in- serting them in;the time clock, what would you do, pul! a lever after vou had your card in? A. This watehman vou are talking ro is standing there pushing the lever; all we do is drop the ecard in and he would push a lever and sa¥, ‘‘Come on, come on, come on;’’ I think iT you look at some of those cards you will see my time clock card was ‘way down before it was punched. Q. And then you would pull the card out of the elec again? ; A. Yes. Q. And then weet you put it back in the sanie rack? -A. No, keep right on going and the, Tack is. on the other side of the clock. Q. You would go over on the work side of the’ clock. so to speak, and would vou just throw the card down or would there be a particular card slot? ‘A. No. Just a slot you put it in. Q. And I suppose: the greater number of employees « who were coming in on anv particular morning. hetween . me ~ Steve Anderson -t 361 14 minutes to ‘7:00 and 7:00, the more time they would . take before they could all get through the time clock there, isn’t that right? ; : A. The company generally arranges so that. they weren’t there all at once. >Q. Well, you just said, as IT understood it, you didn't know what time any of these other departments did come? A. I know what time the glost belt used to come. Q. ‘You do know what time the glost helt used to come ; what time did it come? * * * A. Well, some mornings the, wonld pass before. we did, and other mornings they would pass after we did. ** @ (There was an intermission taken while the Mas- ter and Counsel tor the parties were conferring with Judge Picard.) soy | The, Master: I ‘think I had better state on the record, what has transpired here“The parties can make any cor- rections they wish, objections, or any other’ statement. they | ; : _ This case was referred. to me by Judge Picard, and the question arose as to the method of my compensation. I work strictly on a fee basis and must pay office expenses , and have something left over for myself in cases on an average in‘order to subsist. And, I took the question of fees up with the attorneys at the outset, with a view to getting in a practical arrangement, and if possible, getting compensated on account from time to time during the course of the trial. . ; . Tt looked as though it might get into a very long trial, the way it was proceeding, if we proceeded in accordance with, at least, the. way the defendant believes is the prop- er method of proceeding and I: believe the trial would run. into. months. oe has heen able to put up an amount of, Money equal to. T understand, $300, to defrav their 50 per cent of the compensation of the Master, each side | paving 50 per cent in.the first instance. I have stated to the parties that T think in a case of this type I ought oe ® . % 362 - . Steve Anderson — rq to get compensated at the rate of approximately $40 each full working day. A large part of that goes to office ex. -penses, and I often'do a great deal of work in a case that I do not directly charge for. ‘That is just by way of background to explain what has come up. a I have taken the matfer up with Judge Picard as to the length of time the trial is likely to take, and whether any’ measure’ could be taken’ to short-cut it, and the parties have been. participating in one or two conferences with Judge Picard on that question: one, in particular, whic’: just ended. Judge Picard heliev®s that the. trial can be very greatly shortened and has in fact stated that he doesn’t see why it should take over a week to try the issues in this case. “i * es The Master: Then we have those four issues. Are there any others? That is, ‘the 56 minutes per day, or some such amount, extra time worked, as shown by the time clocks, which was not computed by the defendant in paying the men. Second, charity work.. Third, the payment of the s0- ‘called invisible man. And, fourth, unauthomzed deduce. . tions for equipment that the employee had to buy from the: employer. Mr. Lamb: That is right. * * * Q. Steven, I show you Exhibit 1-J, for identification, same appearing to be your time clock card for the pay ending October 29, 1940. Looking at that, can you | state what time your department began to work that week (handing exhibit to witness) ? A. I siarted work at 6:51; 6:51. Q. Can yuu answer the- question, what time did your department start to work that week?. A. No, I couldn’t. of Q. -You don’t know when your department started to ; work?, : A. No. QQ It certainly didn’t start to work at 6: :46, did itt. ° ‘2 + 2 - Steve Anderson _. 563 Well,. I didn’t. You didn’t? ‘ No, not if I punched i in at 6:51, | didn’t. . . ’ You don’t have any idea from that, whether your » department was supposed to have started at 6:31 that morning or a quarter to 7 or 7 319, or when it was sup- ‘posed to start? . A. I imagine it started at 6 46. Q. “You think your Poe cdcneed as ut 6 46 that - week? | : A. Yks. Q: In-other words, you could,punch in as early as 6:46 ip the morning? =~ Yes, sure. : : You know Rita Schulte? ; ' No. I don’t know her personally. I have seen her. Would you recognize her? Yes. I would recognize her. What department does she work in? You got me. I don’t know. Does she » work near Earl Trombley in the glost Bzerer ; BS borererierercrers —. I. don’t know cise she does or not. Do you know Ear! Trombley! - Yes, I know Earl. ' Do you know where he, worked?” He worked on the glost belt. _ Did you hear him testify that Rita Schulte worked right close to him? A. I heard him say she worked on the belt, but I don't ‘know whether she does or not. I imagine she does. Q. You imagine.she does. She probably is in the glost _ belt department herself, thes ? A. I imagine she is. If he said sbi is, she probably is. Q. Showing: you Exhibit 5-HH, what. time would that indicate that the glost belt department started operating for the pay ending October 29, 1940 —— exhibit to witness) ? A. Well, it indicates on the card 6:46. ‘ a 564 Steve Anderson Q. In other words, the same thing as the dipping de- partment? \ A. Yes. . \ Q. Do you ‘know Kar! Trombley? A. Yes. | Q. What maine did he work int A. In the glost. . ; Q. Showing you. ‘Exhibit 3-HH, to rues your recol lection, what time. would you say the glost department started that morning, that-week (handing exhibit to wit. ness)? A. Well, I don't know: what time they started. He punched in at 7:12 atid 6:46 and 6:31. [ couldn’t tell by that what time they started. Q. He was working in the same department as “Rita Schulte you said? A. Yes. - Q. Well, if he was working in the same deperimg and the department started at 6:46 for Rita Schulte, _ probably started at 6:46 for Earl .Trombley? . A. No, I don’t think it is fair to mean that. Q. In other’ words, the fact. that the time clock wa: open at 6:46, didn’t mean that everybody. in the depart. ment would be getting in there? No, it doesn’t mean that. Do you know Mrs. Lillian Socia? Yes. : What department does she work int ' She works in the dipping house. Weill, then, inasmuch as the dipping department started work at 6:46 the week ending October 29, 1940, according to your ‘testimony, that was presumably the time ° . she was supposed to be there that week? A’» I think I testified we didn’t all go in at once; I think ¥ testified the girls would éome in sometimes fifteen minutes garlier than we did, and other times J would go into a different department, I wouldn’t go into the dipping ’ FOrorep ‘ Steve Anderson a . “» §& | house. They had tubs over in where the liner work was, the decorators work, and T would work over these on blue . ware. ee | As, vou testified—well, do you say now that you don’t know from looking at your elock ‘ecard and. Lillian Secia’s clock card what -time the .dipping department opened up that week? : a A. I could guess at it, yes. Q. But you wouldn't know? | . A. No, I wouldn’t know. ~ ale Q. What would your guess be? A. What time the rest went in? IT would say 6:46 on this. ecard here (indicating). | - —Q. Well, what would you say in &xhibit 71 A.. Well, that is 6:32. Mr. Lamb: Exhibit 7? Mr. Cooper :. Exhibit 7. . a. A. 6:33, 6:35,1 would say they started here 6:31. Q. (By MrCooper) . Do you mean that Lillian Socia came in at 6:31 that day? eA ; _ A. No, you will have to ask her what time she came in; _ I don’t know. | : Q. You don’t know what time yo either, do you? ana “A: Well, I imagine I came in at the time the card says there, yes. mea ae Q. And as far as you know the dipping department that week started, as vou say, at 6:46? A™ Well, as faras I can get it from the card, yes. _Q. And the same thing was true that week. of the glost belt department? A. Which card is that? Let me see them again. No, this one probably came in at a different time, ft don’t know what time the belt came. He came in at different times after 7—6:31, 6:49, 6:31, I don’t know what— Q. You don’t know what time he started? A. No. ; u’came in that day / a * 1+ « Steve Anderson ce, "From Rita | Schulte’ s card, Exhibit 5-HH, showing punches in at 6:46 and 6:47 on various mornings, you ‘would say that that week—would you say in that week the girls on the glost belt were coming in at-the period he- tween 6:46 and 7? A. I wouldn’t: say the girls, I would. say Lillian, she: ‘.was; I don’t know if the other girls were. Q. You don’t. know whether the ee had a ‘regular opening time or not? - A. What do you mean? | Q. .1 say you don’t know now whether’ there was a ‘time when the people in the glost department were. sup- posed to come in, or whether they weren’t? -A. As I said before, they came in at different: times. . '.Q. You mean anyone could come in any time any day, or was there a time when that- department was supposed. to start; that is what vou said a while ago? A. No, I don’t think I said when they were or to start. Q. Now: vou say they weren t aneipueed to atart at : any particular time, do you? —No, tort say that. Lamb: You are getting it all tangled up. A.’ T said they came in at various times. Q. (By Mr. Cooper) _ Various departments came in at various times? ; A. Yes. -Q. And you said the weex ending October 29, 1940, your dipping department sta ted at 6:46? 7 ~ A. Let me see the card. again. a ‘(Handing card. to the witness). _ A. (After examining eard.) Ti imagine it was supposed to, yes. ’ -Q.° And as. far as ‘you can. tell trots Exhibit 5-HH, Rita Schulte’s eard, ‘the girls in the: glost ware depart- ment could punch in that week at any. time between 6:46 and 4 is that. right? ; 7 ‘Steve Anderson S . 567 7 A. “All I know is what that card says; I don’t know, | about the other girls.“ : Q. Can you answer the question? * * * 1 guess they could, she did. ae (By Mr. Cooper) Do you know Leo Stafford! Yes. ““ ? ‘m. lileve Anderson . A. No; I don’t imagine you could. Q. Steve, showing you Exhibit 1-D, your time ard for + ‘the pay ending December. 31st, 1939, that indicates, does ‘ it not, that yoy worked on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday “and Saturday in that week (handing exhibit to. witness)! -A. ‘Yes, I guess it does. * * °) Q. (By Mr. Cooper, continuing) In other words, those were the only four days you worked during that two-week pay period? ' A. December? Q. Does Exhibit 1-D indicate ta you that those four dats were. the only days you worked - ‘during ‘that pay ‘period? A, Yes, | imagine it does.’ tials Q. (By Mr. Cooper) Showing you Kaxhibit 2A, does" that refresh your recollection as to whether on December _ 26th, 1939, you received a pay of $831 ‘A Not for four days’ work. Q: No, this was going back to December 26th, that would cover the preceding two weeks? A. Yes. Q. And then on December 31, 1939, you got another pay of $36.697 A. Yes. . Q. Covering, according to the company’s Tecords, 30}. . hours work? a A. Yes. - a Q. Between December 26th and —— 31st? a Tea. * . Q. On this same day, December 31, 1939, gente also re ceived a check for $47.80 A. Yes; a-bonus check, yes. ¢ Q. Showing you Exhibit 2 2-A, does ‘that indicate to you that for the two weeks’ pay ending, August 8th, 1939, you © earned $99.42? . A. Yes. Q. And that then for the next two weeks ending August 22, 1939, you earned $102.45? . A. Yes. Steve Audetecn ie . 569 | “9, * iad were credited with having worked’ 8654 bonis . during that two weeks? A. Yes. Q. And then on August 25, 1939, that nub be. just. three days lattr, wouldn't it?. A. Yes. “ia Q. You were, = $43.89 7 A Yes. . Q. And that wasn’t pay: for work done between August 2nd and August 25th, so far-as you can tell, was. it? A. It Was a vacation check, I guess. Q. As a matter of fact, you didn’t do any work be- tween. that pertod of August 22nd dnd August 25tht et ria , . 2 Februa ry 20, 1942. y , ‘ §8TEVE AN DERSON, thereupon cia the stand as a witness on behalf of the Plaintiffs, and being previously ‘duly sworn, testified futher as follows: r s . Cross Booniaction (Continued) By Mr..Cooper : Q. I show you, , witness, Exhibit 1-JJ. That is your ,time card for the pay efding February 25, 1941, is it not "(handing exhibit to witness)? | \ A. — Q. Now, the first morning in that pay period the dip- ping department started at 6 46, is that .right? A. I imagine so, yes. ' Q. And the second morning, was that a morning when the department started at 6:46, too? * * * A. T imagine’ so. Q. And the next morning a 6461 A. I imagine so, ves. i 370 : Steve Anderson cs Q. And then .on Monday was: 6 46 again the starting time? A. I imagine so. ast ) Q. And the next day what was the starting time of the dipping department? - A. - F imagine 6:32. . aes -Q. And the nextday— * . > i ~ A. (Interrupting) Or 6:31. Q. (Continuing) What was. the starting time of the . dipping department? ‘ -A. 1 come in at 8:39. I don’t know what time. Q. You don't know what time the department started _ that day? : ¥ - A. No. Q. On this day you punched in at 8:39 the department might have started at 6:31 or 6 46, ‘is ‘that right? A. It could be possible. — Q. You think the department might have started at 8:45 that morning? ; *A. No; I could have had the day off that day and they came and got me. Q. As to that day, fou just don’t know? ; A. That happened quite frequently when I had a ro off they would rome and get me. Some of the other dip- pers. would be sick. Q. And, as to that day, you don 't know ere what the starting time waa for the dipping department? A. No, I wouldn’t know... Q: Now, the next day, what was thé starting time for thé dipping department? A. I imagine 6:46. Q. You say you imagine 6:46? . A. Yes. From what I can make out on the eard there. T couldn't swear by looking at a card two-or three years ago what time the ‘department started that morning. | Q. Well, it’ wasn't the time when the department started at-7:01, was it? A. I wouldn’t know that. Steve nw 3 . ' 871 / oe - Well, | think you testified yesterday - “that you * couldn't punch in before starting time? A. Some mornings I was ordered in ahead of the rest of the depar tment. .When | would be working on the colored ware, and we would be a little short on ware there, | would go in 15 minutés before the rest of our depart- ment would go in. Qs, Well, do you mean to say now that the department didn’t have an established starting time? A.. Well, for the majority they did, but on occasions such, as I just told you about. Q. If you punched i in at 6:46, or shagiliy thereafter, that would mean that the starting time for the major ity of that department that day was 6:46, would it not? - | A. It might be 6:46, but if this was one of the times when the foreman told me to come in earlier, the depart- ment might start at, say, 7:01, 15 minutes later. . Q. In other words, you say now the department didn’t come in as a group? A. No, sometimes, ds I said, they would have some of _us come in-earlier and some of the times the brushing girls - would come in 15 or gometimes as high as half an hour earlier, than the dippers. Q. Well then, on any of the aden shown on this Exhibit. 1-JJ, you didn’t observe, as far aS you can recall now, * when the other people in the dipping department did come 2 int, P - A. No, I couldn’t recall now, no. ; Q. You wouldn’t know when they came ir & Be, . Q. Yor’ do ei though, that they didn t all. come. in at 6:467. A. I couldn’t swear to that,’ either: Q. You know at least that you didn’t? ‘A. That I didn’t. ~Q. Come in at 6:46 every day shown on the clock card, * Exhibit 1-JJ? °° . : om Steve Anderson A. No, not every day, Q. As a matter of fact, it is true that there is only one. day on there when you did come if at 6:461 A. Yes, that is right. Q. But you think so far as you can recall that on those days when you punched in at 6:46 or 6:52 or 6:48 or 6:45, that the majority of the department wax permitted to come in at 6:46 on that day? - A. Yes, as far as 1 know, yes. ‘ Q. Showing you Exhibit 1- H, your time cloek card ford: the week ending Navember 26, 1940; as far as you can’. tell, what was the time the Sere department started in it morping? . T_can tell what. time tiated | . ° You can tell what time sou punched } your time clock by looking: at it? A.g Yes ae Q ' Base that indicate to you that. unless it was an exceptional day and you came in before the. others,’ that the department came in between 6:46 and 7:00? -A. Will you state that again, please? *Q. Does that indicate that unless -this was an excep: tional day when you came in ahead of the rest of your de-’ partment, that on that day the department mia in be- tween 6:46 and 7:00? A. I-don't know; you asked that question | so long ! forget the first part of it.by the time you get to 580 ° | Steve Anderson wae : -a P * Q. And Clarence Schwartz? — ¥. A. 6:19. Q. And Mary. Sawickit | A. 10:46. Q. And Louis Thurmant — A. 6:51. Q. And William Wendt? - A. 6:56; Let ‘me take them cards and explain that. wilk you? : *» Q. You will have a sisinns to do that; | want to ask you a few-more questions. Now, on the second day shown on that same time clock card, you punched’in at 6:55? » A.- 6:55. ahi Q. And there again Arthur manne cae in at 6:3] on ‘that day? | Yes. ~ , And Clarence ,Burgess at 6. ae . Yes. . : : And Nelson Luchtman at 6:55? Yes. Joroperaroborerererer a . day Bi And Katherine May at'6:327° . Yes, that is right. . And Louellfa Rohrbeck at 6:52? Yes. ae And George Schroeder didn’t work that day? . No. _And° Clarence Schwartz at 6:217 . a Yes. . _ And Mary Sawicki at 10:477 . That is right. ’ -And Louis Thurman at 6 255? | 3 Yes. And Willjam | Wendt at 6 417 Yes. Going ‘over now to Exhibit 1-JJ again, the second on that pay period you Punched in at 6:52? - ‘6 :52,_-ves. t ~ \ Tah : | Steve Anderson * © 3 , 381 Q. And Arthur Baxter cancun in at 6:51 . A. Yes. Q. And Clarence Burgess sinanelin dein at 6:51 . LA. ie... Q. And Nelson Luc -htman commas in at 6:51! A. Yes. ; Q. And Katherine May at 6 31% -. toes ae ee -ve Q. And Louella, Rohrbeck at 6:53? A. That is right. ” Q. And Clarence Schwartz at 6:18? — a Q. And Mary Sawicki at-10:477 [a ee ‘Q. id Louis Thurman at 6 524 A. That-is right. Q. -And William. Wendt at 6:51? A. Yes. Q. There was nobody punched i in at 6:46 that i>, ap- parently? A. No, not on those cards. Q. You wouldn’t know, | presume, whether anybody else in the department might have punched ip at 6:46 that day or not? é A. Well, if* you will get the rest of the cards, | “think you will find that they did. Q. But you don’t know. You guess that some of them might have punched in.at 6:46? A. Yes. Q Asa matter of fact— A: (Interrupting) I am pretty. surk they poe in at 6:46. Q. As far as you can tell, apparently different people working in the dipping departmerit punched in at. quite a, variety of times that day, didn't theyt a Yes. ee Q. (By Mr. Cooper) Taking the next day riow, being “OPORODOPOPOPoPOPOpE DE (582 Micive Anderson. the third day appearing on. Exhibit 1-JJ, you punehed = time clock at 6:52 ~_ morning? Yes. Arthur Baxter came in at 6:52 likewise? | Yes. Clarence Burgéss at. 6: eat Yes. Nelson Luchtman at 6: 519 Yes. Katherine May at 6:31? Yes. Louella Rohrbeck at 6 53? That is right. / : Clarence Schwartz at 6:222 That is right. Mary Sawicki at 10: — Yes. . Louis Thurman at 6 529 Yes. William Wendt at 6 51T Ves. * ¢ @ a And you can’t remember wine time you punched i in . any “particular day? A. No. Q. Exdept as you look at the time clock card? A. That is right. Q. You can’t remember what time you ‘arrived at the plant at any particular day? A. No. Q. You’ can’t remember ‘whether the time clock cards show how many Saturdays, if ani, you worked during that period? A.- Ne, I couldn't. °-°.° — Q.. (By Mr. Cooper): Now let’s take Thursday, the second Thursday on this Exhibit 1-H. being your time clock card for. November 26, 1940; on that morning you punched in at 6:52; is that right? A. Right here (indicating), yes. - @: :381 A. Q. A Q. A Q. A Q. A Q. A Q A Q. A. Q. A. Q. A Q. A Q. A Q. A Q. A Q. A ‘9. A Q. A Q. A Q "And Louella Rohrbeck at 6:52? ". Louella Rohrbeck at 7:06? Steve Anderson ; . 583 And William Wendt | on that day punched in. at Fs Yes. ‘And Louis Thurman » punched i in at 6:51 ' Yes. And Mary Sawicki at 6:521 Yes. And Clarence Schwartz, at 6:51? Yes. es Yes. - Catherine May at 6 31? "ee, | Nelson ‘Luchtman at 6:16% — Yes. | ; Clarence Burgess at 6 311 > Yes. And Arthur Baxter at 6 311° Yes. | And the next day 3 you punched in at. 7:06? — Yes.. _And William Wendt punched in at 7: 06 too? . Yes. Also Lovis Thurman? Yes. Mary heitins at 6:32? Yes. Clarence Schwartz at 7 062 He punched in earlier, didn’t he—yes. Clarence Schwartz at 7:06? Yes. Pe Yes. Catherine May at 6:327. . Yes. Nelson Luchtman at 6:19? Yes. : Clarence Burgess, 6:31? 584 Steve Anderson | _ A. , Yes. 3 Q. Arthur. Baxter, 6: :31? A. Yes. Q. You would say then, would you not, with reference to these two particular weeks that these employees in ” the dipping department punched in at the more or less scattered timés‘as shown on ‘the cards, some of which 1 have asked you about specifically? A. Yes, those particular employes, yes. * * * Q. Do you know a dipper by the name of Bextert— A. Art Baxter, yes. Q. He worked pretty close te you in the department there, did he not?- A. No, not always. Q. He did at times? He was in the 4 same © department anyhow? ‘ A. At times, yes. Q: He was in the same department about a year ago, was’ he? . _A. Yes. ' Q. You don’t baer just what time his working jis started on any particular day, then, do you? A. . Some days he would come in, when he was working _ on cups, he would come in fifteen minutes to a half hour before we did, when they were short on cups. - Q.- I think you said you are president of Local 1083 of the United Pottery Workers of America? A. That is right. Q. You’are plaintiff in the suit, of course? A. Yes. ; Q. Steve, did you start this suit because. the union was starting it? . ' Mr. Lamb: (Objection. : Mr. Yooper : T think ‘it is a i questioii Motiva- tion is an issue. * * * The Master (Interposing) : I will: take the question un- . der advisement and not ‘permit the question to be an-. swered until T am more satisfied of the Propriety of the question. * * * ’ > va Steve Anderson — | » 585 Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Steve, did you talk to anyone about starting this suit before starting it? Mr. Lamb: Objection. * * * The. Master: I will let him answer the question. * ° * A. Yes. , . od Nee Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Did you talk about it at union meetings? A. Yes, I did. | Q. - As a matter of. fact, the seven or eight AE ase ar ‘named as plaintiffs are all members of the union too? oe ~~ Q. (By Mr. Cooper) : After the suit was started, .did ‘you talk with anybody about the progress of the suit? A. Yes, I did. * * Q. . (By Mr. Cooper): As a’matter of fact you so- licited former employees to sign these desiguations, did you not? * ° ° ; . A. No, I .didn’t. 3 Q. Did you ask anybody to sign the designation? A. No, they volunteered to sign. Q. So far as any signatures that you secured, you say they came in just voluntarily? 738 . k Zen. * 5:9 | Soa a Q. (By Mr. Cooper). You had one or more of, these ° designations with you at various times, did you, 80 that if anybody wanted to sign it they could come, up and sign it? Did you tell: anybody that they » were up there? - No, I don’t think—well, I told them.ip.the hall that | I was starting a suit of my own, and, naturally, well, they wanted to get in on it too. They would tell us what they had to do under the Wage and Hour, just whether they had to come in at 14 minutes to, or whether they charged A. No, sir, I never had one of those with me. Q. You never had oné of these at any time? A.” No, sir; they were in the hall. Q. You had it in the hall? A. Yes. Q.- In the hall of what building? A. Our Union hall. - 8 Q. A. . 586 . Steve Andersom °o them for sponges, and different things like that, and they would sign that, whatever you call it that, designation. : Q. As a matter of fact, didn’t you tell them all. they had to do was to sign up and they would get a lot of. money? A. No. ees | : Q. Never said any thing like that? A. No, sir. Q. Never told them chutes there was going to he a recovery of a large sum of money? — * No, I didn’t know how much money they would re-. cover. They would get just what they had coming under the. Wage and Hour Law. * * * Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Isn’t it a fact that you. told some of these-people whase names are signed here, that ‘it wouldn’t cost them anything to sign - and be = sented? A. No, I don’t think I did. Q. Would you say that you didn t? A. Yes, I would. : . Q. None of these people before they signed e ever asked you whether some expense was involved to them? A. No, I'don’t think they did. In becoming represented here? No, I don’t think they did. - You don’t think that was ever mentioned? No. 4 2 You do think no one ever. signed it except persons who walkéd into the Union hall and signed it there, is that right? : \ , A. That is right. aed . Serorte hs he Q. As far as you know, these weren’t circulated around aie at all among the employees or former-employees? A. As far as I know, yes. No, they wasn’t. Q. By the way, who is: paying the expense ‘of this suit? ° Mr. Lamb: Objection. PS ; The Master: TI will take that whole question undér ad- visement until some authority i is produced on it. Go ahead. ane Anderson . ; | 587. Q. (By Mr. Cuiguay Witness, I show you Exhibit 1-LL, your: time card {gr the period ending April 8th, 1941. I ask you whether there is a single morning on that ~ time clock card when you punched in at 6:461 A. No. Q. Is there any when you punched in at 7:017. A. No. Q. Or at 6:31? A. No, there isn’t. What. is the sastivat: you punched in any morning during that 2 weeks? pat ze A. 6:48. Q. And what is the latest? a. oo *."™ ‘Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Showing you now' *your time : clotk card for the iia _ March 25, Exhibit 1- KK. Q. — there any. days in that pay period when ig punched in at 6 461 A. No. : Q. Or 6:317 . A. No. . _A. No, hive isn’t. - .Q. What ‘is the earliest you punched in daring | that two weeks? . A. .6:48: _Q. And what'is the latest A. 10:46. Q. Was it about a’ year ago that you referred. to when’, - you said you were required to continue at work until .five minutes to 12 and then go out and punch the time clock before 122. \ .A. 597 Mr. Cooper: It seems a curious thing that counsel for the plaintiffs and the witness seem so reluctant’ to admit what the-Master has characterized as an obvious thing. | would like to have them admit if, though, on the record. The Master: :Isn’t it obvious that, as an average proposition, in a-35-hour, week, if he were being paid ona piece work basis, he would make less money in a 35-hour” week than a 40-hour week?) — ’ Sa 7 Mr. Lamb: If the conditions were the same, if there were no stoppages and so on. : eee The Master:. That is why | put in the statement about the average week. | Mr. Lamb: There is no question about it, that is obvious. \. abs The Master: Will the witness agree to that? - . a ae. . pts iy | Mr. Lamb: If*the conditions are comparable. + A.- Yes. 1 believe so, yes. ae . Q. (By Mr. .Cooper): And you have agreed, as | ‘understand, it, Steve, that if that, 40 hours was figured “starting from the .time you punched in in the merning,- _going:up to the-time you punched out at night, you would | be spending less than 40 hours during that week at your _ work in the dipping room! , A., Yes,in the dipping room. =, ——g° ae Q. In other words, the adoption of that system would mean that you would be, under normal conditions, earn ~ "ing less money, in a 40-hour week? A tes SNe Mr. Lamb: Object. * * * > ‘ Mr. Cooper: Suppose we excuse the witness. ; ~The Master: All right, I will excuse you ‘from the room while he is arguing.- = as ‘ (The witness was thereupon excused from Yee “coyrtroom.) ° * ° mee. '+* (The witness resumes the witness stand.) Q. (By Mr. Cooper): Getting back .to this again, if * your time was figured on the so-called time‘ clock card basis, you would be spending less {ime every day in the ‘dipping department? : The Master: Spending less time in the. what? 7 “a 598 ’ Steve Anderson _Mr. Cooper: Less time every day in the dipping de- partment. | Mr. Lamb: Less time than what? The Master: You haveea comparative question and you don’t state the alternative. You say if your time was figured by this method you would be spending. less time, — Mr. Cooper: ‘I,will re-phras question. -Q:—{By Mr. Cooper): You are familiar, Steve; with "two methods of computing here, one what. we might call - the company method; by that 1 mean are you familiar with the method of computation hy which, ‘for example, on - Exhibit 1-X, the company figures: that»>vou worked eight « _ and one-quarter hours that certain day? A. Yes. Q. Let’s call that the company method of combputiog hours worked. A. Yes. Q. Now, you claim that there is another way of com- puting hours worked, is that right? A. Yes. Q. And that would be by simply subtracting one ‘time item: from the next on the time clock card, is that right! A. Yes. xi Q.' (By Mr. Lamb) Now, when you refer to the clay * shop, will vou tell us of ‘what vou speak when you call it the clay shop? ‘3 A. Well,. the clay shop‘is the department where the ‘ware is actually made, that is, forming the ware. It is divided up into three different departments, clay flat, clay’cups and ¢lay cast ware. like a sugar bowl] or cream pitcher, or something like that, that would he cast ware, ‘something that they can’t jigger hy ‘hand. or tool, they | i ie _ Q. (By Mr. Lamb): ‘Are the’ jigger men in that de- partment? ; bit aw A. Yes, sir: T was one of them. ‘ 608 John Alvin Metz QQ, I see, you are silk as a jigger man? AS Yes. ~ Q. Now, will you tell the Master ‘what the operations € pectewnaall ‘byedigger ‘men are? ; A. Well, you have got a.man working with you and a- girl. The girl is-classified as a finisher, and’ the man is a batter-out. And, the hatter-out: puts the clay on the mold, and shoves ‘it up to the jigger man and the jigger man takes the mold and puts it in a revolving head and it has ‘ ‘gotga tool like a handle that fou pull down and you bring ‘the tool down on that and form. the baek. By using water on the back you make it nice and smooth, and. vou have u scraper in one hand and you serape the edges down so* they are even all the way around the mold: : Ths Master: Then when you ‘get through with that process, is the clay in a soft condition or is it hardened | im some way? 2% A. Well, ‘the Clay is in a ‘workable condition, you know, it’ is not running, or anything, but molds can go through the mangle that,.we work ‘on, they are kind of warm, and as the clay hits it it more or less keeps -it in the same condition you can put water in the back and the wateris just an actron of keeping the tool from drag. ging on the clay and making it rough, and after you take your mold out of the ring you put it-up in the mangle, up on-the shelf that is going all the time and you are ready .for another one. That ts. what a jigger man does. Q. (By Mr. Lamb): AsT understand it, the mangle is the dryer? ' | A. That is the dryer, yes. Do you want me to explain itt | ao © The Master: Yes, go ahead. A. They have got two types there. They have got a steam and a hot-air. The hot-air ‘mangles has 67, 68 shelves in, on a continuous chain, and the jigger head runs with the mapgle. The ‘head is set at a certain speed and SQ ; the mangle. And on certain types of ware, small ware, there is some small. wares that they put up , John Alvin Metz : 609 7 and 8 molds to a shelf, and what we figure, there’ is two compartments to a shelf, there is 68 double compart- a ments to a round. ; . | The Master: Then when if is put in the mangle, isy, . that just -at room temperature, is it dried at room tem- perature, or is heat supplied? — a A. There is heat supplied to it. On the steam mangles, ‘t comes from the boiler room. And this is going all the time. As it goes around, it simply takes it off the ‘other side. =) ay a The Master: I see. * aoe. XN. . And finishes the edges. . .Q.. (By Mr. Lamb): How many ‘mem are in the clay departnient, Mr. Metz, approximately? A. You mean the whole clay shop or just flat? Q. Yes. in the first Mace, the whole clay shop. A. The whole clay shep? Oh, T don't know; about 125. a o eee (A blue-print was then marked Exhibit 30.) . ' (By Mr. Lamb): Which entrance, then would you use, Mr. Metz. . ; ned A. This north side, this clock right here (indicating). Q. Marked ‘‘A‘’? aa The Master: Would vou go difectly ing the time .clock?: A. No. 1 would have to come in there where he has his finger.“ . Mr. Lamb: At the employees’ entrance. — + A. Right,here. oP . The Master: Which is indicated the employees’ ef- trance? oc ; The Master: Then you would go along this long aisle until you got to the time clock? - A. ‘'Bhrough the dressing toom. That is, our-dressing - room down there. and cloak room, whatever you -want fo . call it. - AL. Mr. Lamb: Where it ig marked M, a d toilet; cloak . A. Yes. a oe 610 John Alvin Metz Q (By Mr. Lamb): Do youvdeposit your coat there? | A. 1 do, and my lunch there. QY. And your lunch pail. Then proceed to the time clock marked ‘A? A. Yes. Sometimes we sit in there and talk and. smoke until it is time to punch in. | Y. I see. Now, Where i is the clay shop part of it which you work in? * ve. A. I worked all over that departmeiit. That is along the lines marked -‘mangiles. * ° * Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Did -you tell us how many em | ployees are in theclay shop; that is, the entire clay shop! A. I told you how many. men employees in the clay shop. Y. And that was how. many men? _ : A. About 125. That is just a guess. Q. Are there women in.the clay shopt A. Yes, there is. . .Q. What typeof work do they do? ~\, are Mostly . finishing. rel. now, that mostly. They finish, they handlé stock, and then there i is emptier’, what 7 they call emptiers, inspectors. Q. And then these 120 men'on your shift in the clay shop, what elagsifications o of men employees aye there be- sides jigger men? A. Well, there is jigger mens, batter-outs and then the fellows that operate .the automatic driers, and there is truckers, and fellows that. makes the castors. Castors they call .them. Q. After you puiched the time clock, then, did vou | proceed directly to vour - in the clay shop? A.. I did. Q. Arid’ was that true of the. other employees | in the clay shop, too? Mr. Cooper: Objection. No foundation. A. As far as IT know. * * ° . * Q. (By Mr. Lamb): How long would it take you to get to your post in your department? _ A. Oh, between a minute and two minutes. It all de- pends on which end of the clay shop I worked. _ Q. In other words, some ae would work on one ws e ‘ * John Alvin Metz . 611 \end of the clay shop and other ‘days you 1 mighte work on nother? A. Yes; ‘that applies to weeks, too, sometimes, it is: a week at a time and a month at a tite. , The Master:° Did you time yourself on that, or is that your estimate? . oe eae ‘A. That is just a guess, knowing what time | started to work lots of morning. Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Did you advise us whether, there -were different shifts in the clay shop? ‘A. There was. Q. Did you work different shifts? a&. = L. did. ’ ‘ Q. And the time when you werk and the shifts you, work will be indicated in the time clock cards which sai been handed to us by the defendant ? A. They will. * ee (The time clock cards. were Roreugun marked Exhibits 31, 31-A to 51- Z, and 31-AA to 31- LE.) Mr. Lamb: We offer the exhibits. ® Mr. Cooper: In the first place, they have not been identified, but assuming that the witness will identify them as being his time clock card, I object to their ad- mission on the ground that they are not relevant. orate The Master: I would like to look it over at my leisure, - but on the question of the admissibility in evidence, | am , quite clear in my mind that these are admissible in evr- dence. The’ plaintiffs have a theory,of the case. You dis- pute ‘theire theory. But it is. one of the things in issue | here, and I will overryle the objection. ° uses Q. (By Mr. Lamb): | would like to: have you tell us, Mr. Metz, the names of other employees krfown to you w ho work in the clay shop and were similarly situated and: did — work to that w hich you performed? SUMMARIZE PROM LINE 21, PAGE 866, THROU GH LINE 4. PAGE 869, as follows: . “Walter Selk, Alfred Erke, Robert Daniele, Carl Schoof, Ray Wiley, Paul Frazo. Jovee Brousseau was a finisher on - ware. Wells Clay. was a bat- . 7 ? : 612 Seng : John Alvin Mete ~~ en ' ter-out. Albert Schiappavasse: was anothtr Jigger man. ** °. QQ. Will you tell the Master the approximate time of the day that your shift worked? Was it mornine ard afternoon, or afternoon and. evening or what! ¢ A. Well, all four of them. In the clay shop. on flat ware and the cups, they run two shifts. ‘The morning shift would start to work most of the time at a quarter to 6 or 14 a to 6, and the aftertioon shift) would unch im at 12:32 and work until 11-0 ‘clock ar, 10 0" Glock” or sometimes quarter to 12. It all depends how bad they needed the ware. And we changed shifts every week. One week we would work days and the next week we would work nights. That is the way we called if. Q. So, a group usually works in. the clay shop, or do _ you work individually on piece work usually? A. A crew is considered three people. You have. your jigger man and batter-out and finisher. You are inde pendent as far as running vour own job from the other - jobs, the other mangles. Q. Have .vou always worked on piece’ work, or have there been occasions when you did day rate work! A. A few océasions; not very many. > -Q. And on those few occasions, what type of work did: you do when you were getting a day rate? A. Worked for Herman Miller out on the dock, or out on cars. ‘Unloading cars. Q. ‘Unloading cars? ~ A. Yes. I would get'a day off and ‘* would ask me if I wanted to work out there, or téll me to go out there. Q. Did you ever attend the meetings of the employees called by the management? A. Wehad meetings every week. Q. And-were vou advised to appear.at those meetings! Mr. Nunneley: Same objection we made before, your ‘Honor. , A., T was. ° * ° : . , . The Master: I didn’t rule on the other employee. |: Ls é John Alvin Metz —— 613 thought while he was here in view of the f fact the charges came up and | didn't have much time to think about it, I would get his testimony in on it, but it does seem to me this is outside the scope of the pieadings and if you want to bring it in you should ask for leave to amend the pleadings. .. | believe ] will make that ruling. per stick to it. ~ Mr. Lamb: 1 would like to make a proffer of proof. - The Master: All right, go “ahead. ; Mr..Lamb: Ff this witness were permitted to testify, | he would answer that he and all other employees of the Mount Clemens— Potters Company, including those rep- resented by this phaintatf,- were required to, and did, at tend a meeting once a week since the effeetiye date of _ the Wage and Hour Law; and if this witness were per ” mitted to answer he will testify that said meetings lasted from 15 minutes to a half hoyy each week, and .were ad. dressed by foremen or other supervising officials of. the Mount Clemens Pottery - ‘Company who advised them as to methods te increase their Production and efficiency, and 80 forth. | : Further, that these meetings stgipred on company property and that the semployees were required to, and did, punch their tie clock cards out and then attend the meetings during Junch hours, and returned from the meetings, punched their time clocks and proceeded to | work.: . , . @ (By Mr. Luamby)::. Mr. “Metz- = Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Can you advise me whether ‘or not you were ever required to or did, return to the em- . ployer’ s premises and grease or oil molds? . A. IT would like. to have that read again: Q. Did you ever return after working. hours or after you punched the time clocks, in pursuance to the em- ° plover’ s instructions, and oil or change molds? . A. IT have. ; Q. Will vou advise us the oceasion or occasions when that procedure occurred? , . 614 John Alvin Metz A. 1 couldn't tell you the exact date. Y. Will you tell us apgecamantely when it occurred — and what you did? A. I would say a year end a half ago is the best I can. give you. I don't know. I have dope it different times, Q. IL see. What did you do? . The Master: What did you do! A. Went back, in the shop aid finished changing molds vr finished oiling molds after | punched out the clock. The Master: Was this in the afternoon after you had punched out? : | A. Afternoon, yes.. The Master: Any particular day! - . a : A. Oy, sometimes if 1 was working on no night shift, | might come in early before punching my clock card in — and come back and do work and then puneh the clock. The Master: Any particular day of the week when this was done regularly? A. Well, the molds which used to come through—they have changed that. That isn't always—vyou used to come ‘ in on a Thursday, I think, and *hen Friday, and they had a regular mold change chart: that come-out of the office when a certain job was to change molds or something like that, and-on oiling we oil every week. We,oil the molds every week. , Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Did that oecur after vou had punched the time clock card! _ -A. Sometimes, not always. i The Master: How was .it determined—in the first plaee, how did you happen to come back to do this work! A. Thev would tell me to, finish up the job. to get it ready for the next morning. . ‘ The Master: From the foreman? ; A: You... eee. 7 Q. (By Mr. Lamb): What is his name? A. Robert Fittin. * * ° The Master: Was he vour foreman ‘throughout the period vou worked in this department? z A. Well. not throughout the whole period; Carl Ster- ~ John Alem Metz... 615 ner Was my foreman for a° while; ‘| worked .under Joe Cornish. | ints ‘The Master: Qid you do this extra work while you were there all the Mae when working under the different foremen, or just When Arthur Fittin was foreman? A. That was a habit ever since [ have been working there, up to last, oh, | would say last year that they done that ; done that lots of times. The Master: . Now, you say that on some occasions you punch your time ‘clock out and then came back and did- the work and other wecasions you did this work before you punched your time clock out? A. That is right, that was to keep my hours down so they didn't run over 40; 42, 44, -whatever it- happened to be. The Master: Was that the determining factor? A. So | could make. more money at the same time, so ~ it wouldn't show too much time on my ‘clock ecard, to keep my rdte up. The Master: How would you know on a ‘given. day you were to do this work before punching it out or after? A. Jf we weren't done at 2:30, when we were supposed to stop the job and go out, sometimes he would come around and tel] is and sometimes we would go and ask him what we should do. The Master: In other words. if vou wi done in ad- _vance of the time that -vour shift was supposed to end you would do the work before checking out? ‘A. Yes. The Master: And if 3 you weren’t. done with your regu: lar work until the shift ended, vou would go out and punch vour elock out and then come back? A. Sometimes, and sometimes they would let it carry over. If. you worked on a double job, all jobs weren’t - double, if you- -worked on a double job the guy that worked on the next shift to von would come in and finish vp for vou. otherwise he had to do part. of it anyway, if you worked on a double job. , The Court: Well, what I would like ‘to know is how eo : a o- > ~duam 616 John Alem Metz \ you knew whether you were supposed to go out, on a _ particular day how would you know whether you were supposed to go out and punch your time clock out before | doing this work, or whether you were supposed to do the work and afterwards punch the time clock out;’you say sometimes you did one and sometimes the other. How could you tell which you were supposed to do? A. Sometimes he would tell us to do it. The Master: The foreman would teil you on & given - day what you were supposed to do?. A. He would just about’ know how many hours each | one of us ‘had in, just about. The Court: Were there times then when you made up your own® mind about it without awaiting instructions from your foreman? A. Well, | don’t know, I don’t remember of any. Sometimes we would go and ask and see what we were . ‘supposed to do. Q. (By Mr. Lamly): Can you give us an | estimate of the number of times, for instance in the vear. 1940, ‘tha you came back and changed or oiled molds after punching | the time clock? “Mr. Cooper: I object to any estimate, your Honor. ‘A. I couldn't, anyhow. The Master: Just a minute; vou ‘couldn't estimate? A. I don’t think I could, no, The, Master: I will ov ertale the obdettion : the answer is that he couldn’t estimate. [ will ask you how often, “was it that you oiled and cleaned the mold? _A.. We oiled the mold- once a week. The Master: How oftendid you clean them? A. Well, you mea change them? The Master: Or, change them. A. Well, that depended on the jok& Sometimes it might be once a week, sometimes every two weeks, or sometimes you might run a whole set of molds without changing them once; there was no set period of time. The Master: There was no regularity on. that? »v John Alvin Meta OG ad A. No. ‘The Master: But there was a-regularity as to the time of viling them? , : ; A. Yes. Q. (By Mr. Lamb)’ Can you advise me as to what arrangement was made relative to down time, or when machines had broken down? Shy A- On our particular job there wouldn't. be no ar- rangement, you would just.sit around until it got fixed, it it took two hours or three hours, whatev er it was. -Q. You just sat there?’ A: Sat there. - Q. Were you. required to go. out and punch your time ; _ elock while waiting, or did you just sit there? A. Well, it depended ou hov close to the noon hour, or something like that, it was. If it was maybe within a half hour of: the noon hour and he had -an idea how long it was going to take to fix a job, or anything, he would tell. us to. go*out and punch out and come back in, you know, . after’-we ate, or something like that. That didn’t happen too often, not on my particular job. ~The Master! What. was the usual-practice » then if the _ down time wasn’t at. the noon hour? A. We just stayed 7 there, right in the shop. Q. (By Mr. Lamh):. Can you advise us what. if, any deductions were made from your pay for sponges used | : on the-job? A. Yes, there was; ‘the finisher’ used the sponges and . we paid for them. Q. You didn’t use the sponges in your job? A. Well, she used them on the job, but T didn’t use — them, she used them. The Master: You mean,the girl that was working with. yout” Q A. Yes. The Master: Would use the sponge? A. Yes. “618, John Alvin Metz The Master: Ww as a deduction aad from her pay “as well as yours, if you know? ) A. No, it all fell on the jigger mau, The jigger. man . paid for the sponges. _ ~ QQ. (By Mr..Lamb): The jigger man, including your- ‘self, paid for the sponges used by the girls? eae A. Yes. ~ The Master: Your answer is “*Yoes"’? A. Yes. The Master: Speak your answer ~How -much did they charge for these sponges? A. 30 and 35 cents, I think. I am not too sure about that, somewhere around there; I think that was the price of them. The finisher would go to the foreman and ask for'a sponge order and she would take the order, artd |” don’t know, whether he put her name down or my name . down, she would take it to the store-room and get the sponge; I don t even know if thie price was marked on the sponge: . .Fhe Master: How mariy of thene spangre, would be _ used in an average w eek? A. Well, it all depends on wiles kind of ware you had; some. ware would use more sponges than others. Certain types you would use three sponges a week, atid there | were some you would “ use three.a pay or two week period. Q. (By Mr. Lamb) : That .is on the computation sheet, your Honor. The Master: Yes, but I. am just irying to get. a rough idea.: Q. (By Mr. Lem): Can you advise me whether any deductions from your pay were made for any other articlés used on or about the job? - A. (No response.) Q. Gloves or anything else! A. For pails, We had to pay for our own pails that the finisher vased to put the water in. We had to pay for - them. when’ ‘we — them. _ John Alvin Metz . 619 AQ. You mean that you, as the jigger man, had deduc- ‘fions made from your pay for. the pails used by the finish- ers? eet : A. That is right. so . ‘Q.. Now, can you tell the Master how ‘much vou were charged for those. pails? | 3 ‘A. I think: it’ was 27, 28 cents. pe Q.. And can you tell us how frequently those charges were made or deductions made from your pay? A. It all depends how long you could hang on to them, if somebody else didn’t get them away from you. There is no way of keeping them locked-up or anything. We tried to put names on them or put your number on, _but they would disappear, use them over on the auto- matic machine, turn up at the other end of the shop some . place. : Q.. Can yon tell us whether or not you were advised. . by the management through an invoice or payroll deduc- tion slip ‘or otherwise, of these deductions? A. No, sir. |. i rice . The Master: How did you find out about. them, then? A. Well, sponges, why, it simply would -tell 1s once in a while that she got a sponge today or something like — that, and-when we gat the pails, we would have to get.an. . order from the foreman to get a pail, to go to the stock room to get it. eet eh Nosh Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Did you ever discuss this with the foreman, the matter of making deductions for sponges, for instance, from vour pay check? * A. Oh. we diseussed -that at the meetings that we would have after we-was done work or before we went ‘into work. The Master: Were-these meetings of your department or meetings of the entire plant? * A. No, of the department; department meetings.. Q. (By Mr. Lamb): ‘Did you ever make known your objection to these deductions from your pay check, to the foreman? v 620 - John Alvin Mete aah oe -A. Well, we all didn’t like it. I imagine 4 made. it known. They finally stopped making the jigger man pay for it arid made the finisher pay for it.I don’t know why they did it. -Q. Can you advise us about what time that — 0- \. curred, what year? 4 think it: was around January in 1941. . \,Q. January, 19417 : ‘A. Yes. : 4 ry Q”.. Can. you advise us of any other daductions made from a.jiggerman’s pay check for equipment or property used oj1.0¢ about the job of anyone? A. Welljthey, used to deduct so much, I don’t know how much, off of our wages for. bisque grinding, something that they did in ‘another department. -Q. They would deduct. from | your wages? - * That i is right. ke Q* In the clay shop, as a Jigger ari | A. That is right.” - ba Q:. The cost of bisquae— ~~ A. (Interrupting): - Bisque hs we ‘ Q. (Continuing) :—grinding, which was “Gage 1 ina dif- ferent department? _ vanes het A. That is right. | Q. Can you advise us of the dejartment the tleaw Gunite was done in? A. It was done down around the dipping department me place, brushing department or some place down in there.» o The Master: Pardon me, let me. interrupt. How were you paid? What was the method by which you were paid?’ A. It was piece-work: go much per hundred dozen. . The Master: Per hundged dozen? suas sagt A. Pieces: ie 2 (By Mr. Lamb) : Of what? Well, whatever I was doing. Maybe Sinch fruits, or pment 6-inch fruits, 7-inch plates, 9-inch plates, salads. It all depends what job we was on. > . John Alvm Metz «© 621 The Master.: , Who kept track of what job you were on?,. , : A. The finisher kept track and. she put it up on the chart: in the office. I don’t know when they started’ put- ‘ting the tickets in the truck, that we had a duplicate, each A truck had so many boards. Small ware was 20 beards to the truck and large ware or center ware was 15: boards to the truck. And we yot paid according to: the number of trucks that was loaded on the disque belt for a two- week period. Q. (By Mr. Lamb): Are you able.to tell us how neh was deducted frum your pay ‘check for this bisque grind- ing that oecurred in other, departments? A. Well, I have heard-—I couldn't state exactly ; :“h asked one time, or-a couple. times I went—if I would be short on my pay, what I: figured up .per- hundred dozen, if | was too shoxt, | would ask, what they iarged me for, and if I remember right, it was 70 cents one pay. 1 don , know. | couldn't say for sure. The Master: Did you figure up your pay every mare what you thought you avere entitled to? ‘ A. Just about every week, Not every week; every two weeks; every pay. The Master: ‘Did you keep any _Tecords of how you computed it? | A. 1 used to. 1 used to keep it day by day. Q. (By Mr. Lamb) : That appears on the computa. tion sheets of the company? A. It should. Then there was another’ charge. The Master: What was that? - A. -For inspection. If they held up a-truck of ware. And there was a charge for crooked ware. And we would have to go. down to the office. and figd the cost of that if we wanted to know. It wasn’t brought to us or wasn’t shown on our pay, check voucher. ‘The Master: “Was that a deduction that was made every week, or every two weeks period when you were paid? va 7 622° | John Alvin Metz - ‘ ” A. . Well, crooked ware was, if you worked .on any type of ware that went crooked, it may or. may not be your . faulf if the ware was crooked, but I think they deducted fifteen minutes a day.‘tor crooked ware; if you worked on . a job that the ware would go crooked as it was drying, or something like that. ° ‘The Master: Was that a uniform didianitank the same amount: every week, or did. that depend on how much crooked ware theres was! - A. Well, they had to look it ovet and ins deducted tha# at once whether there Was ; any crooked on it, or whether there was a whole lot. If they picked out any crooked you had to replace that ware they put on there. The Master! Would they have’ to scrap, the crooked ‘ pieces? Do you know what ‘they did, with the crooked pieces? ; , A. I think they pore them away. . The Master: Then you were paid so much per hundred. ‘ pieces} but sif some of them ‘turned out to 2 crooked and unusable, they deducted those pieces and you were only. paid on the good ones, is that the idea? A. We replated the ones that they took off, and the same went for finishing. A small wearing? 5-inch -fruits, _ would have 15 and five or six dozen on a, board, and 24 boards to-a truck. If they found—it all depends in what humor the boss is in. If they found seven or eight pieces of bad ware out of a hoar@ they would hold the trucker. The Master: "What ‘« caused the ware to -hecome ergoked? = . * . : A. On crooked ware maybe it would be the clay, the texture, or something about that, and it. may be cansed by the molds. The* Master: Would it depend on the skill of the operator? ' - A. Some of it sometimes, and sometimes it was on the jigger itself, the machine that you worked .on, or the two. ° ° ® s : ~ t . ; 4 at 7 John Alvin Metz 623 WN ‘ . Mebruary 24, 1942 ‘ Min. s JOHN ALVIN METZ, was thereupon recalled as a wit- ness, and being préviously duly sworn, testified fur- ther as follows: . ag . Direct Eraininal ion (Continued) 8 ea z an : Mr. Cooper: * With reference to tggtestimony Mr. Metz gave the last part day, if your Hon lease, I desire to present at this time two motions to strike. The first one T can‘state very briefly. I move to strikeout of this wit- ness’ testimony,-because it has not been connected up with the claim of any‘of the plaintiffs in the case. The second motion is that at least that part of the testimony should be stricken having to do with the general topic of deduc- tions from‘piece workers’ earnings. °° a . The Master: 1 will dverrule that motion and your: other motion to strike pertaining to these deductions from pay. 1 have been wondering a little bit just what the plaintiff's theory ix oy,that, but the matter is in issue under the pleadings. It is part of, the issues referred to me, J am going to take the: testifnony or-it, and let that be argued afterwards as to whether it constitutes a viola- tion of the Wage and Hour Act in any.way. * ° * Cross Examination By Mr. Nunneley: , ° : Z Q. Mr. Metz, how long did you say you have worked” at the plant, the pottery? A: It is 10 years4ast December 26th. Q: .10 years last. December 26th? \L- 624 John Alvin Metz. A. I| am pretty suré it was 10 years ‘December 26th, The day ger Christmas. Q. Durfhg that period what has been your employ- ment? What has been your job? Have you~been a Jigeer man all that time? A. No. I started out there as baller- out on cups. Q. You were what? A. Baller-out on éups. _ Q. How long were you at that? A. About a year and a half. Q. Then what did you dot. © &. Then I was transferred over, on batting out flat | ware. Batung out far ware. You have heen at that how: ' long? > A. Well, I don't know. I have been jiggering a little, bit better than five years. I don't know for stire. Q. Little hit better than five vears., And, during ‘that period some time in there did you hecome a jigeer man? A. Yes. , Q. When did yon get ’to be a Jjigger man? _A. Well, 1 could get niy day ‘out when T first started to jigger. é Q. When did you get the. job of being a jigger- inant That is a different. job than batting out? A. That is better than-five vears ago. Q. That is better than five years ago? A. Yes. : ‘Q. And the jigger man, ‘since that time-is that all you have done, is worked as a jiggeh. man? A. Well, about the last’vear we had what they eall a | split job; two jigger men worked together. * ° . 2 You live over towards U tica? ry a far was that (row. the init A. T think Utica is nine miles from Mt. Clemens. *. | Q. How far is it from your home? . A. T live about three miles west of. Utica. About twelve and a half miles drive. \ : ; 7 8 John Alvin Mets a 625 You travel back and forth by automobile? ~- That is right. F , Alone? -° | ca. No; not all the time. Who. traveled with yout * There were times | had three or four or. five girls ride with me. ~ Q. Workers in the nett é A. @hat is right. - | 8 Q. o rode with*you? a POP OPO SUMMARIZE FROM LINE 5, PAGE 905 to LINE 25, * PAGE 905, AS FOLLOWS: “Lucille Sabo, . Luc ile Pretzer. The Savarino girls also rode .with me. There were three of them. — There was another girl; I can’t remember her name o now.’’ They were people who liv ed out that way, too? That is right. | ‘They lived on your st et? Two of them lived on my street and the other two I went out of my road to. pick them up. . -Q. During how long a period did they -ride with. you? A. Oh, I don’t .ktow. The last two riding with me, _ they were riding. with me, I guess, since the other strike, - the other walk- -out, up until this ‘strike. Q. Which two ‘is that? A. The-two Lucilles there, Pretzer and Sabo. Q. Did they ride with you = the first walk-out or strike? “A. Well, Lucille Sista rode about a week or two before : the other strike, the other walk. out. I. think so; I don’t know. : - Q.. Who rodeé with you before that strike? A. There is another girl there. I ean’t tell you her name right now. . ‘ Q. These people \you have named, did any of ‘them ride with you =i John Alvin Metz 627 work with him in December, 1940, and I was still working with him when the strike was called in’ April, 1941. I worked with Marvin Goldenbogen in the fall or early winter of 1940. I worked with Art» Dagno for about a yekr, probably back in 1939." eee : A. That is all I can recall. QQ. Now, the same time while you were doing all this work you had some finishers working with you, didn't you? A. Yes. Q. Who were they? SUMMARIZE FROM LINE a, "AGE 913, TO L INE %, ~ PAGE'915, AS FOLLOWS ‘Bleanor’ Bahorski was the last girl I worked with in there. She was working with me before the first strike. She worked in my gronp about a year. ‘At various times Jean Tewksbury worked in our ” « group. Maude Raleigh and Martha Raleigh worked — in our group. Three or four different periods in 1939 and 1940. That is all T ean remember now. Q. That is all yoy can remember. Now, can you tell us who your crew was right at the time of the first strike? A. .Wallie Selk, and myself, and I dof’t know if Eleanor was working then with us or Jean Tewksbury, or Martha. I can’t tell you.-the finisher’s name for sure. * * ° Q. (By Mr. Nunneley, continuing) Could you tell us who your entire crew was during any period or any of the last year prior to the strike for one vear, whoswas your entire vrew, the three of them? A. This last year? [| couldn’t name three because I: have had more than that. The Master : You mean [Text truncated at 120,000 characters. The full text is on the page linked above.] --- Source: Frix Law Library, https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40386450_0122%3A02. Public record. Not legal advice.