# Appendix — O'Connor v. Donaldson > Briefs, arguments, decisions, and more. URL: https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40386414_0445%3A01 ## Record - **Collection:** Supreme Court brief - **Document type:** Appendix - **Published:** January 1, 1974 - **Citation:** 419 U.S. 991 ## Text om | EY DEC 17 197 : COURT, U. B . APPENDIX MICHAEL RODAK, JR.. IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES NO. 74-8 “ J. B. O'CONNOR, M. D., Petitioner, -V- KENNETH DONALDSON, Respondent. ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT Petition for Certiorari filed July 25, 1974 @ertiorari Granted October 21, 1974 % 2 4 oA 4 ca APPENDIX IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES NO. 74-8 Js B. O'CONNOR, M. D., Petitioner, -V— KENNETH DONALDSON, Respondent. ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FIFTH CIRCUIT Petition for Certiorari filed July 25, 1974 Certiorari Granted October 21, 1974 NJ INDEX Page Chronological List of Relevant Docket Ent rieBecccccscccecsccccacce Lid Transcript of Proceedings: Testimony of Dr. Walter Fox, Witness on Behalf of Plaintiff- Direct Examination......ccsecccees 1 CROOGG TAMEDECIOR..cccccccccccccsese Li Recross Examination......-+e-eeee-2-- 30 Testimony of Kenneth Donaldson, Plaintiff- . Direct Beemhination...cccccccscoeces 31 Crees: Methimation.cccccccsccscccccee§ 54 Recross Examination.......eeeee2e+-- 58 Testimony of Dr. Raymond D. Fowler, Witness on Behalf of Plaintiff- Direct Examination......ceeeeeeee- 61 Testimony of Dr. John Gumanis, Witness on Behalf of Plaintiff- Direct Examination.........e.e+-+2- 75 Cro@e Mramination. .cccccccccccccee 122 Reading of Interrogatories to DS. SGC 66 wee cee ecandeccevecesesse 127 Motion for Directed Verdict........ 140 eeeaae of Dr. F. G. Walls, Witness on Behalf of Defendants- Cross Exateination...cccccccccerece 141 Testimony of Dr. Clark Adair, Witness oh Behalf of Defendants- Direct Examination.......eeeeeeee- 145 Testimony of Dr. W. D. Rogers, Witness on Behalf of Defendants-) Direct Examinati@n...cccccccccccee 147 Testimony of Dr. Jesus S. Rodriguez, Witness on Behalf of Defendants- DiTeGt EMOMINSCLOR <5 66004068 seee0% 252 Reading of Deposition of Dr. O'Connor on written interrogatories......... Oral Charge® tO Jury..cccccccccccccce PAMSMELES’S BOIELS. WO. Laocccccvsces \Defendants' Exhibit No. 4........... Sections394.21, 394.22, Florida PERE TASS) 6 nove ce eh 0s eens ee cns Opinion of the Court of Appeals..... Judgment of the Court of Appeals.... 153 173 187 242 243 257 304 CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF RELEVANT DOCKET ENTRIES February 26, 1971--Complaint seeking injunctive relief for violation of constitutional rights and petition for writ of habeas corpus. March 10, 1971--Order denying petition for writ of habeas corpus. July 26, 1971--Respondents Motion to Strike. July 26, 1971--Defendants Motion to Set Aside Order, July 27, 1971--Defendants Motion to Dismiss July 29, 1971--Plaintiff's Motion for default judgment in the habeas corpus petition and complaint; or in the alternative, order defendants to answer complaint, permitting inspection of hospital record, for substitution of party defendant; to proceed as class action in habeas corpus petition and postpone deposing plaintiff. August 2, 1971--Defendant's Motion to Dismiss. os : August 16, 1971--Order (1) denying defendants' motion to set aside and vacate Court's Order of April 26, 1971 (2) granting motion of defendant Peter Ivory to Gismiss complaint and petition (3) granting defendants motion to strike aliegations with reference to action as a class suit and giving plaintiff 10 days to amend his complaint (4) denying defendants' motion to strike damage aspect of petition-complaint (5) granting defendants motion to dismiss petition- complaint to the extent that no cause of action has been properly alleged for recovery of damages and petitioners complaint is dismissed without prejudice * iii ( to plaintiff to amend complaint is dis- misse< without prejudice to plaintiff to amend within 10 days (6) granting motion to dismiss insofar as petition-complaint seeks declaratory and injunctive relief w/o prejudice to plaintiff to file a new and separate complaint seeking relief pursuant to 28 USC 2281 and denying all other aspects dof the motion (7) granting motion of J. B. O'Connor for protective order and said defendant shall not be required to submit to oral deposition until he regains his health (8) denying plaintiffs' request for permission to interview incarcerees at the Florida State Hospital at Chattahoochee, August 30, 1971--Plaintiff's First amended complaint. . ‘September 9, 1971--Filed Defendants : Emmett S. Roberts and Milton J. Hirschberg's Motion to Dismiss the action in their private and official capacities. September 9, 1971--Filed Defendants Motion to Dismiss the complaint and amended complaint. September 28, 1971--Motion of defendant, Virgil D. Smith, M. D., to Dismiss. September 28, 1971--Defendant's, J. O. Norton, Motion to Dismiss.. November 8, 1971--Filed Plaintiff's Memorandum of Law in Reply to Defendants' Motions to Dismiss. _ November 8, 1971--Motion of plaintiff for issuance of order making Milton J. -Hirschberg, Emmett S. Roberts, J. O. Norton and Virgil D. Smith parties defendant her and directing the issuance “und service of process upon them, nunc) pro tun ; : : : se, ; i November 19, 1971--Order pursuant to hearing on motions (1) denying motion of defendants Hirschberg and Roberts to dismiss the complaint for improper joinder. of additional parties (2) taking under advisement plaintiff's application for 3 judge court etc. (3) dismissing complaint as to White and Jones (4) deny motions of defts Smith and Norton to dismiss cause and taking under advise other aspects of motions (5) denying motions Of defendants O'Connor, Hirschberg, Roberts to dismiss them in their official state capacities and individual (6) dismissing amended complaint insofar as habeas corpus relief pursuant 28 U.S.C. 2241 et seq. (7) denying any other remaining pending motions (8) discovery shall be completed by Jan. 1, 1972 except that upon leaving court parties will be allowed to make such furthez discovery as becomes. necessary (9) motion ore tenus of de- fendant Norton for the taking of deposition of plaintiff is denied until court has affirmatively determined whether defts Smith and Norton should remain parties to this suit. January 5, 1972--J. B. O'Connor, M. D. Answer to Interrogatories. January 10, 1972--Defendants O'Connor and Walls Opjection to Interrogatories and Request for Admission. February 8, 1972--Answer of Defendants J. B. O'Connor, M. D., individually and as former Superintendent of Florida State Hospital, Milton J. Hirschberg, M. D., individually and as Superintendent of Florida State Hospital, Francis G. Walls, M. D., individually and as former Acting Superintendent of Florida State Hospital and Emmett S. Roberts Vv February 9, 1972--Amendment Of Complaint. April 20, 1972--Order (1) granting plaintiff's motion to add John Gumanis, M. D., as an additional party defendant and directing plaintiff to have service of process on this party issued forthwith (2) granting motion of defendants Roberts, Hirshberg, O'Connor and Walls for order compelling discovery and directing plaintiff to comply with defendant's motion to produce and to furnish requested items for copying and inspection within 10 days and failing this, Court will impose such sanctions as are just and necessary (3) granting plaintiff's motion of 3/22/72 for order compelling defendants to answer interrogatories and requests for admission and defendants are directed to make discovery as requested by plaintiff and to answer in 10 days or as soon thereafter as possible; failing this the court will impose such sanctions as are just and necessary (4) taking under advisement motion of defendant Smith for entry of final judgment pending disposit of all issues. June 1, 1972--Answer of Defendant John Gumanis, M. D. June 26, 1972--Filed answer to Supplemental Interrogatories to Defendant O'Connor. June 26, 1972--Response to Request for Defendant O'Connor to Admit. August 7, 1972--Deposition of J. B. O'Connor, M. D., on Written Interrogatories. October 5, 1972--Order granting motion for summary judgment and directed to Clerk to judgment in favor of defendants, Virgil D. Smith, M. D., and J. O. Norton. vi + October 5, 1972--Judgment on Decision by the Court in favor of defendants, Virgil D. Smith, M. D., and J. O. Norton, M. D.: November 7, 1972--Amended Responses to Interrogatories to Dr. O'Connor dated Oct. 13, 1972, in Reply to Telephone Request of Eugene Dubose on October 30, 1972. November 7,’ 1972--Amendment to Answer. November 16, 1972--Amendment to Deposition of J. B. O'Connor, M. D. on Written Interrogatories. November 17, 1972--Deposition of Dr. J. B. O'Connor on Written Interrogatories taken November 16, 1972. November 21, 1972--CASE CAME ON FOR TRIAL BY JURY of 6. November 28, 1972--FILED in open court Jury verdict in favor of Defendant Francis G. Walls and against plaintiff Kenneth Donaldson. November 29, 1972--FILED in open court jury verdict in favor of plaintiff and against the defendant J. B. O'Connor for punitive damages in the sume of $5,000. November 29, 1972--FILED in open court jury verdict in favor of plaintiff and against the defendant J. B. O'Connor for compensatory damages in the sum of $17,000.00. November 29, 1972--FILED in open court jury verdict in favor of plaintiff and against the defendant John Gumanis for punitive damages in the sum of $5,000. November 29, 1972--FILED in open court jury verdict in favor of plaintiff and against the defendant John Gumanis for compensatory damages in the sum of $11,5000. November 29, 1972--FILED Judgment in favor of defendant Francis G. Walls against Plaintiff.. vii November 29, 1972--FILED Judgment in favor of plaintiff and against defendant O'Connor in the total sum of $22,000.00. November 29, 1972--FILED Judgment in favor of plaintiff and against defendant Gumanis in the total sum of $16,500.00. December 8, 1972--FILED Motion for Judgment in Accordance with Motion for Directed Verdict. December 8, 1972--FILED Motion, for New Trial. ‘December 11, 1972--FILED Qmaindnient to Motion for New Trial. December 20, 1972--Notice of Appeal with Certificate of Service thereon to counsel of record. January 29, 1973--Filed Notice of Appeal from final judgment of 11/29/72 by defendant Gumanis. April 26, 1974--Opinion of Court of Appeals. TRANSCRIPT OF TESTIMONY 11/21/72 A. l TESTIMONY OF DR. WALTER FOX--DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ENNIS: Q Dr. Fox, have you had occasion in your experience to examine hospital records of mental patients? A Yes, sir, Q Approximately how many? A It would be in the hundreds, sir. [65] Q Has it been part of your responsibility to examine those records to determine whether or not they were adequate records? A Yes, sir, this is a big part of the hospital surveys that I do as a consultant for the National Institute of Mental Health. Q Has it been part of your experience to examine those records to determine whether or not the patients described in those records were receiving adequate treatment? A Yes, sir, that is the purpose of the examination. Q Now, I will ask you, Dr. Fox, have you had occasion to examine the hospital records of Mr. Kenneth Donaldson, the Plaintiff in this case? A Yes, sir, I have. Ax 2 Q Dr. Fox, based upon your professional Opinion after your review of that record, I would like to ask you for the period 1957 through 1967, is there evidence in that record that Mr. Donaldson received psychiatric treatment? . A No. In my opinion there is not_evidence that he received psychiatric treatment. ; There are a number of progress notes , which are generally brief and which make no reference to a treatment plan which frequently refer to continue custodial care or words to that effect, which I “es = [66] interpret to mean provide food, clothing and shelter, and that is not psychiatric treatment. Q Again, for that period of time, Dr. Fox, is there any evidence in the record that Mr. Donaldson received any form of care or treatment that he could not have received in a prison? A No, sir. Q I am sorry. A No. “R. MAHORNER: Wait. . \ BY MR. ENNIS: \ A. 3 [69] to document evidence of schizophrenia if that is the diagnosis that has been given to a patient? A Yes, sir. Q Is there evidence in the record that Mr. Donaldson was physically dangerous to himself or to others? -A I could find no evidence anywhere to that effect, that he ever hit anyone or ever even threatened anyone verbally. There is one incident report that shows that another patient ran at him and he stepped aside. Now, I believe there is one unsupported statement in a staff conference about 1964 attributed to Dr. O'Connor saying that this patient was incompetent and should be considered dangerous to others. Now, this was a conclusion, but as to the basis of that conclusion, I couldn't find anything in the record. Q Dr. Fox, is it standard practice in mental hospitals to document in the patient's record every incident of dangerous or violent behavior? A Yes, sir. Q And you found no such incidents in this record? A No, sir. A. 4 Q Dr. Fox, was there evidence in this record that Mr. Donaldson received an individualized treatment plan? } A No, sir, there was no evidence of that in those first ten years. [70] Q Was there evidence in the record that the hospital staff ever assessed Mr. Donaldson's strengths? A No, there -- at least, let me again say for the first ten years, there was no evidence of this, and, of course, the major goal of a hospital is to get people out, and in order to do that you must build on their strengths, so this is a very important -- Q And why is that, Dr.? A Well, you never get anyone out of a hospital if you concentrate on their deficiencies, on their problems. Q Now, Dr., assuming the evidence in this case will indicate that for the first ten years at Florida State Hospital the Plaintiff was confined to a locked building and a locked ward and had no grounds privileges, would that be consistent with a psychiatric treatment plan for him? A No, it would not. Q Why is that? A Well, there was nothing in his past history to indicate that he was likely to be dangerous to other people. There was nothing in his past history that showed that he wasn't a generally self- sustaining if frequent moving individual. Everything would point to the fact that here was an individval who had made it pretty well, who was responsible, who did have regard for his fellow human beings, _S* % [71] and right off you look at this guy as somebody to get out of the hospital very soon, and one of the ways you would do that is by giving him as much freedom as possible as soon as possible. Certainly confinement never improves psychiatric symptoms. It makes a suspicious person more suspicious, a depressed person more depressed, and another thing about being in confinement, by and large you are made dependant on the routine of the hospital. You make no decisions about when to get up, what to eat, what to do next, when to go to bed, sometimes even such things as when to shower have been decided, and this will gradually rob a person of their independence. A. 6 Did that happen in this particular case? No, surprisingly, it didn't. oOo Yr O And what does that indicate to you? A That Mr. Donaldson had a great more, great more internal strength than most of the people that would find themselves in that sort of total institution for that period of time. Q Dr. Fox, in your professional opinion how reliable are psychiatric predictions of dangerous behavior? A I used to think I could do it a lot better than I do now. Generally speaking, my experience over the years shows that we score poorly on predicting future [72] dangerous behavior, and by and large in hospital psychiatry we tend to see more danger than future events show to be true. Q Dr. Fox, what is your professional opinion from reading the record concerning the hospital's efforts to discharge Mr. Donaldson? A Well, it appears to me that for the first few years there was an almost indifference to discharge. It was almost as if this was not one of the hospital's goals, it just wasn't spoken to too much, : # ram - and then, let's say from 1957 to 1963 that seemed to bear out, then in 1963 I would have to say ‘that there is some evidence that thefe was actual resistance to the discharge of Mr. Donaldson. For instance, in June of 1963 an agency called Helping Hands wrote to Dr. O'Connor and explained their services. They said they were a halfway house, and that they helped thousands of people like Mr. Donaldson, former transition back into the community, that they had been in correspondence with Mr. Donaldson and that they would like the opportunity to accept him into their program, and they received a letter back saying that by and large, as I recall the letter, this man needed a great deal of super- vision, which, of course, a halfway house is prepared to give, that released -- it should be back to his parents, eee [73] and bear in mind, now, these people are in their 80's, I think, at this point, and that under the circumstances a discharge to a third party at this point seemed ill advised. Now, that seems like more than just indifference. It was an indication that Dr. O'Connor felt that this person should not be out. A. 8 On another occasion when a friend from New York State offered to come and get Mr. Donaldson and help him get back on his feet outside of the hospital, this man was actually discouraged. He was told he would have to get permission from the parents, which I believe he got, and then he had to get, tell, you know, more about himself, which he did, and then I ‘believe it was a note written sometime in 1964 by Dr. O'Connor to, I think, the attending physician, to the effect that “anyone who would want to take Mr. — Donaldson into their home must not be too well, himself. Q Let me ask you, Dr. Fox, on this, you . mentioned the halfway house. Would you _.please briefly explain to the Jury what a halfway eet is? A “eli, it is just really what the name . implies. It is a passageway between, or a stepping stone, perhaps,’ between, let's ‘say, a total institution where a person has spent twenty-four hours, and an independent living situation’. ‘There are many more stepping stones that one could use, but, and let's just give as an example, that a [74] person would go from twenty-four hour care in a mental hospital to a halfway house where they would be able to sleep at night and maybe have some help \ t 4 A. 9 but what I would like for the doctor to talk about is the date of the letter and then how long thereafter he was discharged, which is now evident from the face of the letter. THE COURT: Which is not what? MR. ENNIS: Evident from the face of the letter. a [77] THE COURT: Well, there is evidence, though, as to when the man was discharged and will come out, is there not? MR. ENNIS: Yes, sir, Your Honor. THE COURT: I think an answer to that question would be objectionable. BY MR. ENNIS: Q All right, Your Honor, I will withdraw the question, then. Dr. Fox, you testified you had examined hundreds of hospital records of mental ¥ A. 10 patients. Would it be one hundred, two hundred, nine hundred? Can you give a closer estimate? A Oh, five hundred. You see, when we make these surveys, we usually examine about thirty records right there, so within the last two and a half years, I guess I have made fifteen of those surveys, so you can calculate that at maybe four hundred or five hundred records that we have surveyed within the last -- Q Within the last two years? A Yes, sir. Q Now, in your professional opinion was Mr. Donaldson's hospital record an adequate hospital record? [78] A No, sir. : ~ Q Could you just tell the Jury, if you would, some of the deficiencies? A Well, basically there was at no time except for perhaps two months in 1967 evidence of a treatment plan. Now, a treatment plan is basic to discharging a person. A treatment plan is where you list some of the problems to you goal of getting a person out of the hospital. You list A. ll the assets, the strengths, the things that can be built on, and you indicate who is going to be responsible for trying to develop some of these assets, and overcome some of these problems. You may have some short term goals, like a person is sleepless, trying to get over that, some long term goals, like resolving a family conflict or a job situation, or something like that, but it really is basic to have a treatment plan, have a group of people working together to a goal, and then to have progress notes that speak to that treatment plan, you know, how is it coming, if it is coming well, fine, if it is not, then we change it. So the lack of a treatment plan, the nature of the progress notes, the long intervals sometimes between the progress notes, I think in the first ten years there were fifty progress notes, which works out to about two and a half months each, but these would be as Close together as a week sometimes and as far apart as fourteen months and [79] six months at other times. Q Now, Dr. Fox, is it standard practice in mental hospitals for a psychiatrist or physician or psychologist to enter a note in the hospital record everytime he has a significant contact with the patient. A Yes, sir. Q Did the report indicate how long Mr. Donaldson had been at the hospital before he was first presented to a staff conference? A Yes, sir, it did. He arrived in 1957. As I recall, the first staff conference was in 1962. I may be incorrect in that, but it was a considerable period of time. Q Now, Dr. Fox, assume that the evidence will show that Florida State Hospital had low staff and had limited financial resources, given those limitations, could something positive, nevertheless, have been done for Mr. Donaldson? A Yes, I think so, and I think the vital thing would have been for the admitting person, admitting physician to have spotted this man from his history as a person to stay in the hospital, but a short period of time to have communicated to the rest of the staff working with Mr. Donaldson, and to have immediately embarked on a program which would have emphasized continuation of the community ties, in this case, with his parents who were not too far [80] away, or if he didn't want that, to change it and start building ties perhaps to a job situation somewhere. A. 13 Q How could that have been a help? A Well, by reading the want ads for one thing. If he, as this man said, I believe at one time that he wanted to move to someplace, establish himself in a town in the north, one of the methods of help- ing out with that, particularly with this man's ability to find jobs, would be to provide him with a paper from one of those areas. Q What do you mean when you talk about this man's ability to find jobs? Would you elaborate on that, please? A Well, yes, something that I saw in the record many times was that he was a floater, that he was always leaving jobs. Well, that is the opposite side of the coin. The other side of the coin is that he was always finding jobs and that he was not a welfare case. Q Dr. Fox, given an institution with limited resources, would it still have been possible to give Mr. Donaldson grounds privileges? A Of course. Q How about weekend passes? A Yes. Q Or trial visits for a week or month or two? A Surely. A. 14 [81] Q And would that be the standard psy- chiatric practice? A Yes. Q Given -- A In the case of Mr. Donaldson. Q Given the limited resources of the -hospital, would it have been possible to assign him to an occupational therapy department? A This would have been excellent. Q It would have been what? A This would have been excellent because in some of the social history given by his parents there is an indication of a musical interest and artistic interest and here would have been a way to let him express himself, gain self-esteem, and so forth, and so on. Ten years after his admisstion he was assigned and he did some pretty good painting apparently because there is some indication in the chart there that he was able to sell some of his paintings, so this would be -- Q Now, could you please describe to > the Jury the function of the’ meaningful work program in an institution with limited resources? A. 15 A With limited resources, by that, do you mean no ability to perform a vocational rehabilitation function? Q No, let me rephrase the question. What I am [82] asking you is were there any types of jobs or work at Florida State Hospital that Mr. Donaldson could have been assigned to that would have been a positive benefit to him? A Well, he listed his means of liveli- hood as painting and carpentry, and perhaps if the hospital had a master carpenter, he could have not only maintained that skill, but learned some more, things like that are good, just so long as you don't exploit the patient in the process. , Q Now, Dr. Fox, I believe you testified that it was ten years before he was assigned to an occupational therapy program. Is there any evidence in the record that during that first ten years he was refused permission to go to an occupational therapy program? A I must confess I don't know. I read somewhere on one occasion that he was refused, but I don't remember whether it was within the first ten years or not. A. 16 Q All right, now, Dr. Fox, given the positive steps that could have been taken to treat Mr. Donaldson even in an ins‘*i- tution with limited resources, how long do you think it would have been necessary to confine him? A Oh, I would guess possibly two months. Q No longer? A I shouldn't think so. I might say here that a guess of two or three months is presuming that the hospital employs a staff meeting involving several physicians to make [83] a simple decision like discharge on the average patient. I don't think that that should have been necessary in the case Of Mr. Donaldson. It wasn't that complicated a case. Q Let me see if I understand your testimony. Are you testifying that if a staff of doctors had to make the decision to release him -- A It might take two or three months. Q This would take two or three months, but if only one physician was responsible for that, how long would you say? A. 17 A It probably would take less. It should take less. MR. ENNIS: I have no further questions. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. MAHORNER: Q Dr., I have to ask you a few questions, if you don't mind. When did you first see the Defendant? Excuse me. When did you first see Mr. Donaldson? A Last night when I got off the plane. Q When did you first receive the hospital record? A I received the hospital record approximately two weeks ago, sir. [84] Q Now, did you treat any patients yesterday? A No, sir. Q How about the day before? A No, sir. Q Have you treated any patients in the last week. A. 18 MR MAHORNER: I apologize. I assure you it is unintended. THE COURT: I am sure you are not doing it intentionally because it tends to show | that you don't know the difference. MR. MAHORNER: -I understand. Right. THE COURT: All right. BY MR. MAHORNER: Q When did you first receive a psy- chological record? A They came at the same time as the rest of the records. Q As a separate package? A As I recall, there was several pages, ‘but the psychologicals were not separate. They were a part of, you know, one package, one of two or three packages. Q But you never received a separate package of A. 19 [90] psychological records? A Not a separate package of them, no. I saw the psychological reports which were all pretty much in sequence, as I recall. Q You saw the ones that are in the hospital records now? A Yes sir. Q Did you see anything in the record as to any test being done by an outside psychologist not associated with the institution? A I saw a reference to that. I don't recall seeing the results of his test. Q Did you see any instrument stating his findings or opinions? A If I recall correctly, and I sure could be wrong on this, there was re- ference that an outside psychologist had found evidence that he might be dangerous, or it was some negative remark. Q But you found no instrument that purported to be from that psychologist himself in the record? A No, sir. Q Did you see any evidence that Rorschach tests were made? A. 20 A Yes, sir, a number of the psychclogical reports indicated what tests were made. [91] Q Did you see the tests, themselves? A No, sir. Q Now, you stated the man had done pretty well. Do you know if he was ever in the service? A I don't believe he was, sir. Q Do you know if he was turned down for any reason of any incapacity? A I don't recall from the record that that was mentioned one way or the other, but I will leave it at that. Q Did you see anything that indicated who committed him? A Yes. His parents requested his commitment, and two physicians whose names I don't recall signed the form. Q Okay, do those physicians appear to be unattached to the institution? A Yes, they did. Q Was there a diagnosis in the form? A Yes. As I recall, it was paranoid schizophrenia. A. 21 Q Was there any reference to a prior incarceration in the record -- excuse me. I‘will correct that, a prior hospitalization? A I don't remember whether there was in the commitment papers, but there certainly was in the hospital / [92] record. It was mentioned a number of times and there was even a letter from -- I think it was the Marcy Hospital detailing his hospitalization there for about three months in 1943, I believe. Q Was the term dementia praecox or schizophrenia used? A Yes, dementia praecox was. Q Was that term used back then which has the same meaning as paranoid schizophrenia? A Yes. Well, it has been the same meaning as schizophrenia. Q Do you know anything about the job record of the Defendant prior to hospitalization? A Only that he changed jobs frequently. To the best of my knowledge, he was never on welfare. At one time he ran a little business of his own, I’ believe with his father, and that he listed carpentry and painting as two of the things that he did, carpentry and painting. / A. 22 I think there was some mention that at times he would help build the parents house or fix it up. There was frequent mention that he was moving, moving, moving, but not too much as to the specific nature of the jobs he’ held or for where or for ‘how long. Q Was there any indication that he moved because he felt his coworkers were | against him? / ! [93] A Yes. Q Was there any indication as to who initiated the proceedings for Marcy? A I think it was his wife. Q Do you know if the marriage continued? A It did not. She divorced him in 1949, according to the record. Q Do you know as to whether there was any type of semi-traumatic academic experience early in, approximately when the Plaintiff was 21 or so? | A No, sir, I don't. I know that he started college and that he-did not finish college.. The record in various places says one and a half years and in other places it says two years, and it also says that he stopped college and . lived around the house for a while. , A. 23 Q Do you have any knowledge as to the behavior pattern or other reasons which may have caused the wife and/or the mother and father the other time to initiate this type of proceeding? A I really don't know why the wife did. Mr. Donaldson says something to the effect that he couldn't blame her, you know, she didn't know what she was doing or didn't understand, and I might imply from that that she was advised to do it. Now, as far as the other imstances are [94] concerned, the parents said that he thought somebody was poisoning his food, to the best of my recollection, and that apparently alarmed them enough that they proceeded. Q Do you know whether or not he was treated in Philadelphia or went to a hospital there? A I missed that if it was in the record, I recall his going to Travelers Aid or something, some mention of that in Philadelphia. Q Was that concerning a mental condition? A I am not clear on that. Q Does the judgment as to whether a person A. 24 is to be released from a mental institution involve factors that have to be considered both as to release and as to against release? In other words, is there a way when you start to make this decision as to the interest of the public and the interest of the patient, or is it just a matter that you feel the patient's interest can best be served by release and then you make the decision? A Well, I think your obligation is to your patient, but I cannot foresee of urging release of the patient that would be to the detriment of the public because that would come right back to haunt your patient. THE COURT: I don’t want to rush you, Mr. Mahorner, but you are taking too much time... Let's ; move along. [95] BY MR. MAHORNER: Q In 1957 what was the best medical treatment plan that could have been given for the man? A In 1957 I would have proceeded as I mentioned earlier, pegging him for an early discharge, letting the folks on the ward know that, giving him as much freedom in the meantime, keeping those ties with the community as strong as A. 25 possible, and if things went well, that is what I would have done. Q Did you see any indication in the record that he refused treatment? A I saw an indication in Dr. Adair's admission note that he didn't want to have electroshock treatment and I think Dr. Adair added that he didn't think it would do much good anyway. There was one other or perhaps more than one other place where Mr. Donaldson mentioned a feeling towards Christian Science and a wish not to receive medication. This is a wish that in 1957 for a while, if things went well, I would have certainly have respected. There might have come a time when I would have and hopefully after trust: had been built up where the man could. have been persuaded to take the drugs. Ten years later this was tried briefly, which I think is perfectly indicated, except that probably he [96] should have -- Q Now, if drugs had been received by him initially this would have been a form that you would not generally receive in prison, is that correct? A If the druas had been received ori- ginally, no, I wouldn't go that far. A. 26 assault, I know that. Perhaps it was that they were calling him homosexual. I remember the reference to homosexual on two or three occasions. Q Now, on the question of standard practice put in the hospital record, if you were in an institution wherein there was like one physician, say, for 180 or 200 patients, in general each contact of the patient, whether or not it could be in the hospital record, or would [100] | it be a matter that they might emphasize the treatment ot contacts in the record by itself? A Particularly when you have a very low physician to patient ratio, the hospital bylaws should allow other people to contribute to the progress notes and the hospital bylaws should also indicate an outside limit or the intervals of these progress notes, so, no, in answer to your question, but every single contact would be recorded, but every month or at least and more frequently is something unusual occurred, one of the members of the treatment team would undertake to summarize what had taken place in the form of a progress note and he would relate it to the treatment going to that patient. Q Is there any recognized physical laboratory test for schizophrenia? A Wo, sir. Are there theories in that area? Q A Yes, sir, a number of them. Q How was the diagnosis generally established absent physical tests? A The diagnosis is established on the basis of a thorough going history of the person's past life, sort of a longitudinal history of things and then a cross sectional history, namely, how the person is today, what does he look like, what does he talk about, how does he feel, what is his [101] judgment like, how does he perceive reality, and in addition to that there are psy- chological tests that can be used, and in a twenty-four hour setting you can add a lot of other things, such as how this individual relates to a social group, at a dance, or what he does in the occupational therapy department may reveal him. ve Q Are there frequent disagreements as to diagnosis among the staff themselves? Can I change that question, Dr.? Dr., would disagreement be extremely rare or would it happen fairly often? A Well, is this a general question or does it relate to this specific -- A. 28 Q Yes, sir. It does not relate to speci- fics, a general question. A I would say generally it would not be infrequent for people to hold different opinions, particularly early in their § experience with an individual. Q Did you look at the staffing of Mr. Donaldson in 1964? A Yes, sir. Q Were there doctors in excess of the two or three on that staff? A Yes. Q Did they all conclude that at that time he was mentally ill or a paranoid schizo- phrenic? [102] A They all concluded he was mentally ill, and the diagnosis I cannot recollect. If I was to guess I would say yes, paranoid schizophrenia. MR. MAHORNER: I would like to have a minute, Your Honor. THE COURT: Yes, sir. is that correct? A Yes, sir, except I think he was referring to a hypothetical person rather than Mr. Donaldson. Q Let's assume if we change the hypo- thetical and that there is no evidence that he was ever rejected from military service, and that there is no evidence that he was ever in a mental hospital in Philadelphia, would it then be consistent with your understanding to assume an even shorter period of hospitalization? A It would weigh in that direction, yes. Q Now, Mr. Mahorner asked you some questions [106] about a thing called schizophrenia. Is one of the major symptoms or indications of schizophrenic an inability to communicate with other people? A I guess frequently it is. * Q And did you see any evidence in this record of that symptom from Mr. Donaldson? A I certainly did not. Q I believe you testified that you saw no A. 30 | | evidence in the record that would support a diagnosis of schizophrenia. Let's assume for the minute that the hospital's diagnosis of schizophrenia was correct. Let's assume that a minute, although I know I don't find any evidence to support that, even if that diagnosis of schizophrenia was correct, do you see any evidence in the record that would justify confining him to Florida State Hospital for fifteen years? A No.- MR.. ENNIS: No further questions, Your Honor. MR. MAHORNER: I have a couple of recross. RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. MAHORNER: Q I will ask you to look in the record. That [107] is a 1964 discharge -- excuse me, 1964 staffing. How many doctors do you see on that staff? four, five, six. A One, two, three, A. 31 TESTIMONY OF KENNETH DONALDSON - Direct Examination Q Now, what happened at the end of that ten day observation period? A I thought I was going home. I had seen a doctor one time near the end of the ten days, talked to this ~ [175] ~e doctor for a few minutes, and the doctor didn't say one way or the other, but . the fellow patient said, well you will be going home tomorrow. I thought I°was going home, back with my family and back to work. Q But did you go home? A I did not. , Q Where were you taken? A I was put in van with some other people and taken/to the state hospital nearby at Ma R ‘« Q How do you spell that? A M-A-R-C-Y. It is near Rome, New York. ~ Q At that point you were an involuntary patient? A That is right. I objected. Q You objected to that? A I objected. Q Now, Mr. Donaldson, during the three months you were at Marcy State Hospital, what type of treatment was given to you? A In the first place, the second day I was there I was put in an open ward and I had the privilege of the grounds all of the time I was there. Q Yes. A The doctor came through the ward everyday. He didn't have time to stop to talk to us, but a couple of [176] days I would walk along beside of him and ask him about going home. Do you want me to tell everything that -- Q Well, let me just ask you this. Did you ever receive electroshock therapy? A Yes, sir, f° did. Q That is also referred to as electro- convulsive therapy? A That is right. Q Now, did you go yourself to those electroconvulsive therapy sessions or ™ A. 33 were you taken there? A I went voluntarily. Q And for how many of those did you go? A Twenty. Q And those were given over a period of approximately three months? A They were given two a week, and the last week, the week of the last one I went home from the hospital. I drove the car home from the hospital. Q Now, Mr. Donaldson, after you were discharged from Marcy State Hospital in early summer of 1943, were you ever again a patient in a mental hospital between that time and the time you were admitted to Florida State Hospital? A No. Q Now, with the exception of those two [177] hospitalizations, the Marcy State and Florida State, at anytime in your whole life have you ever been hospitalized as a mental patient? A No. Q Mr. Donaldson, would you please explain briefly to the Jury what you did with your sr eeeeeeeeeeeeeereeeeeeeenenneineeeeeeeen A. 34 My home was where I hung hat. paid my bills, never asked cHarity, aes caused any trouble, and I [179] thought it was my privilege as an American citizen to go anyplace in this country and work at any job that I cared to. Q Let me ask you this question, Mr. Donaldson. You said you never caused any trouble. Let's be more specific. i 4 Have you ever been convicted of any crime? A No. Q Have you ever in your entire life injured or threatened to injury yourself? A No. Q Or any other person? A No. : Q You are absolutely sure of that? A I am positive of that. Q Now,.Mr. Donaldson, where were you living in late 1953 and early 1954? A Los Angeles. Q Were you employed at the time? Yes. Where did you work? r Oo PY Northrup Aircraft. Q What kind of work did you do there? A .-I was working in the warehouse in Lynnwood; later moved over to one of the towns on the border, on the coast. [180] I was rated as a crater and packer. My job was to cut the wood for the crates from the blueprints and the other man made the crates and packed the airplane parts. Q Now, Mr. Donaldson, while you were in Los Angeles in late 1953 and early 1954, did there come a time when you experienced any particular difficulty? A Yes. Q What was the nature of that difficulty? A They were’ of a physical nature, being in very good health most of my life when ‘I experienced something that seemed a little bit unusual, I decided to do something about it. Q What did you do about it? TRANSCRIPT OF TESTIMONY 11/22/72 A. 36 TESTIMONY OF KENNETH DONALDSON - Direct Examination would pull out his 3 x 5 file card and ask me what ward are you on, and I would tell him, and he would ask, are you taking any medication, and I would tell him no. Are you working anyplace, and my answer was no, and then that was all. One time when I came back after the escape, which was a particularly out- standing interview for me, he called me down. When I came back I took a shower, T scratched myself pretty badly in my legs going through brambles and the attendants reported the scratches and so I was called down. He came to the office and Gumanis said drop your pants. I did. Several years later when I complained about not getting any psychiatric consultations he pulled [242] out his 3 x 5 card and he read off all of the dates that he had seen me, including that date when he told me to drop my pants. He said those were psychiatric interviews, psychiatric treatment. Q Mr. Donaldson, during the nine years that Dr. Gumanis was your attending psychiatrist, what was the total amount of time you epant talking with him? A I would say it couldn't have been over two to four hours. I would say it would be closer to two hours. I have RL OEE Et A A. 37 no way of estimating it accurately. Q Now, during your entire period of hospitalization, did Dr. O'Connor or Dr. Gumanis ever ask you what you considered your strengths to be, your strong points? A No. Q Pardon. Me? A No. No, sir. Q Did either Dr. O'Connor or Dr. Gumanis ever tell you what they considered the short range goals for you to be? A No. Q Did they ever tell you what they had in mind as the long range goals for you? A No. Q Did Dr. O'Connor ever discuss group therapy with you? [243] ( Q When was the group therapy first made available to patients in your department? A No. A I don't remember the year, exactly, but it could have been around 1964 or 1965. : A. 38 Q Did you go? A No. Q Did Dr. Gumanis ever explain to you what group therapy would do to improve your condition? A No, Q Did Dr. Gumanis ever tell you who would run the group therapy sessions? A No. Q All right, let me ask you this ques- tion, Mr. Donaldson. Did Dr. O'Connor or Dr. Gumanis ever refuse to see you when you requested permission to speak to them? A Many times. Q One of them or both of them? A I beg your pardon? Q Was it just Dr. O'Connor who refused to see you? A Both Dr. O'Connor and Dr. Gumanis, from a period -- it was late or sometime in May of 1957, which would have been the third. month I was on the general ward. [244] A. 39 Neither Dr. Gumanis nor Dr. O'Connor ever say me at my request from that time until the time I left the hospital. After the first few years, I stopped asking, but they never Say me for all of those years at my request, and during those years there were a few things that I wanted to discuss with them. Q All right, now, did there ever come a time later on when you did talk with Dr. Gumanis, though not at your request? He called you down to the office? A Yes, when he called me down to the office, yes. Q Let me ask you this. Did you ever discuss with Dr. Gumanis his refusal to see you on those occasions when you re- quested to see him? A Yes, Q What did he say? A He said he talked only to the patients that he wanted to. Q And that was the substance of that discussion? A I beg your pardon? Q And that was essentially the substance of that discussion? A That's right. A. 40 Q I would like to talk for a little while, [245] Mr. Donaldson, about the living conditions at Florida State Hospital. A About which? Q The living conditions. A All right. How many patients were there in Depart- ment A while you were there? A When I went there in 1957 there were about 1,300. When I left ten years later it was 1,000 or less. Q How many psychiatrists were there for that department? A There was just one so called psychia- trist when I went there, and for a period of six months or so during the ten years there was at one time three, I believe. Generally, there was just one. Q Now, in the buildings you lived in Department A, were those buildings locked? A Yes, sir. Q Were the wards you lived on locked? A Yes. EE A, $1 Q Were there metal enclosures on the windows? A Yes, padlocks on each window. P Q Approximately how many beds were there in the rooms where you slept? A Sixty some beds. [246] Q How close together were they? A Some of the beds were touching, the sides touched, and others there was room enough to put a straight chair if we had had a chair. Q Did you have chairs in the dormitory areas? A There wasn't a chair in the room I was in. ' Q All right,.was there an outside exercise yard for your department? A Yes, there was a Space outside the building,,a good sized Space enclosed with a cyclone fence topped with barbwire. Q Did you go out to that exercise yard? A I went out from time to time when the other patients went out. Q Was there ever a period of time when A. 42 you did not go out to the exercise yard? A .Yes, there was one period in particular ; when nobody went out for two years. \ @~ Now, Mr. Donaldson, you were civilly committed. You had not been charged with any crime, is that right? A That is right. Q Were there criminal patients on your ward? A There were criminal patients on the ward. Q Approximately what percent of the population on your ward were criminals? [247] A Looking back, roughly, I would say a third. I do not know the figures for the whole Sepee eet. Q Let's just talk about your ward. A Okay. I would’ say the wards I was PAs om ec Beat | Q Now, did you sleep in he same rooms as the criminal patients? =~ : Nhe eae A Yes.— ei a Rei Is: Q Did you get up at the same time? Yes. ‘ Did you eat the same food? Yes. \ In the same dining room? ‘ Yes. + Did you wear the same clothes? te te ee a oe me Yes. The entire operation of the wards I was on was geared to the criminal patients. Q Let me ask you, were you treated any differently from the criminal patients? A I.was treated worse than the criminal patients. Q In what sense were you treated worse? A The criminal patients got the atten- tion of the doctors. Generally a doctor makes a report to the court every month. Q For the criminal? A On the criminal patients, and that would be ~ [248] a pretty heavy case load. It didn't give them time to see the ones who weren't criminal patients. A. 44 Q Was there a place on the ward you had access to for keeping personal possessions? A No, not at that time. Q What did you do with your personal possessions? A I kept mine in a cedar box under the mattress of my bed. : Q Was there a place in the wards where you could get some privacy? A No, not anytime in all of the years I was locked up. Q Were you able to get a good nights sleep? : | A No. Q Why not? A. On all of the wards: there was the same mixture of patients. © ' OW some patients who had fits during the night. There were some patients who would torment: other Et poietic ‘seréaming A. 45 [249] about employment or jobs you had at Florida State Hospital. Now, when you first were transferred to the general wards, did you volunteer to work? A I volunteered to work. Q Why did you do that? A I was told that was a way to get out, to show that you were willing to cooperate. Q Now, were you assigned to a job? A I was assigned to a job in the kitchen, the general kitchen. Q Who assigned you to that job? A Dr. O'Connor. Q Did he talk to you about that particu- lar assignment? A No. Q Did he talk to you afterwards about that particular assignment? A No. Q What were your duties in the kitchen? A The first week I was there I took care of several tables. I cleaned them after A. 46 the meals, Gumped the garbage and then we mopped the floors. After I had been there about a week, I was put in charge of one of the steam tables. There are two steam tables. [250] It was my job to see that the steam tables were set up with the proper food and then I helped serve the food. Would you like to know about the food that we had? \ Q Sure. Tell the Jury. A Generally, because I had some intelli- gence I was put in charge of dishing out the meat. The specialty of the house was bone stew. Sometimes we had it twice a day. . We never had a day without it, and when that was hot in the steam table you couldn't stand the stench. I had to stand like this to serve it. That -is what the people had to eat. Another thing that I saw about the food was the man who served the butter. We didn't have butter everyday. It was called for two meals a dav. This one man -- Q Was he a vatient? A. 47 He cut the butter, it was in.-- Was he a patient or employee? / He was a patient. Do F 8 @- All right. A And shortly after I worked at this time, I worked in the kitchen, he went to the T. B. Hospital. He was the type. of person that never washed his hands. Another thing about the food at this time, [251] there were circles of green mold like that on the bread. The meat was rancid. Some of the food was good, but most of it was unpalatable. Q Did you have any responsibility for checking the menus? A Yes. Q All right. A The menu for every meal was posted on the bulletin board in the kitchen and a copy was sent here to be put on file in Tallahassee. My job when I started on the steam table, I was instructed to check the menu posted and what was sent to the steamtable. The first day I said we have not got such and such. We probably got -- we had bone stew that meal, for instance, instead of roast beef or something like that. me I reported that to the lady in 1 charge. She said that is all right. The next meal we didn't get the butter that we were supposed to, and I told her, and she said that is all right. One more meal they switched the vegetables, we probably had blackeyed peas instead of a fresh vegetable, and I told her that, and she said that is all right. I never told her I know -- [252] What were your working hours. on that Job? A From 6:00 o'clock in the morning to .7:00 o'clock that night. I didn't work all of that time, but we were locked in the kitchen all of that time. Q How many days a week? A Seven days a week. Q Were you paid anything? A No. A. 49 Q How long did you work that job? A Until the middle of the first year there. Q And then what did you do? A Then I wanted to work outside. I had never worked, been confined. I wanted to get outside on the grounds, so to be transferred to a job I had to- quit this one. They wouldn't transfer you while you were on a job, so I quit the job and stayed out in the yard one day, and sent a request to the doctor and I was put on outside detail. Q Now, did any doctor discuss that job with you before you were assigned to it? A He... Q Did any doctor discuss how that job would relate to your treatment plan? A No. [253] Q What were your duties on that job? A We did everything that somebody else didn't do. We planted flowers, and strawberries that I told you about. We trimmed trees. I did carpentry, dug ditches, made plumbing repairs and A. 50 painting, and so forth, and watered the lawns. Q How many hours a day did you work at that job? A We were on the job three hours in the morning and three in the afternoon. Q Did you get paid? A No. Q How long did you hold that job? A Until I-escaped in late December, early December. Q All right, now, when you came back they kept you in a locked ward from then on, is that correct? A That is right. They put me on the so called back yard. Q What is the back yard? A The back yard consisted of a building of four wards, two which contained the patients who were the furthest gone. There are some people who are entirely out of their minds. They were there and they were also used as punishment wards. I was put back there. [254] Le) » 0 A oo | oe ° What did you do? And I volunteered as a house man. What did you do as a house man? Made beds, scrubbed the floors, washed the walls and assisted the retarded people to take showers and things like that. Q Did you get any pay for that? A No. Q Did any doctor talk to you about that job assignment. A No. Q How long did you perform that job? A There and after I was transferred to. the front yard until the middle of the following year. Q Now, did there’ come a time when you quit working? A RES ee A Yes. Approximately when was that? That was in the summer of 1958. Why did you quit work? I looked around, observed my fellow patients and the ones who seemed to get the most respect from the attendants “A. 52 Q Did Dr. O'Connor ever tell you what he thought the medication would do to improve your condition? A No. Q Did Dr. Gumanis? A No. Q Did Dr. O'Connor ever try to persuade you to take medication? { A No. Dr. O'Connor respected my belief in Christian Science. He told me as long as I did not cause any trouble on the wards I wouldn't have to take medication. Q All right, did Dr. Gumanis ever try to persuade you to take medication? Ute A One time. Q Describe that, please. A I was called down to Dr. Gumanis' ‘office to [258] ze have a conference with him, and Dr. Rich, the Clinical Director. . I went over certain parts of my case. Dr. Rich turned to me and said you will have to take medication, and he said I will promise you this, if you will take medication for six months and then wait A. 53 another six months, I will release you from the hospital. He said I will guarantee this, and Dr. Gumanis at that time said go .on, Kenneth, he says, take it, you have tried other things, go on, try the medication. Q Okay. I would like to ask you a few questions, Mr. Donaldson, about staff hearings or staff conferences. What is a staff Conference? A A certain number of the doctors at the hospital, the times I were there, I would say about eighteen doctors sat around a long table. The doctor who was presenting the patient sits at the end of the table with the patient. Q Are those staff hearings regularly scheduled for patients? A They are regularly held, yes, probably every week. I imagine every week for each department. Q I am not asking you if the hearings were every week. I am asking you does a patient get a staff conference at regular intervals automatically? [259] A No. Q Was tiat up to his attending doctor? A. 54 TESTIMONY OF KENNETH DONALDSON - Cross Examination _ Could you give us a page reference, please? MR. MAHORNER: No, sir, I am sorry. When you said hospital record, it is in the Marcy: State Hospital record. MR. DEAN: What page of that, sir? BY MR. MAHORNER: Q It is the first page, sir. Do you recognize [294] « your handwriting there? A Yes, six, that is my handwriting. Q I will ask you to read the third ._paragraph of that letter, sir. A I maintain that the misuse of political powers was the sole reason that I was given the course of electroshock treat- ment, not misuse on my part, naturally, as I never had any powers, but at the direction of someone in the General Electric Company or in the state govern- ment at the time or in the national government at the time. Q Now, that letter was written many a 3S years after you left Marcy; wasn't it, or what year was it written? A That was written in 1954. Q Do you recall that paragraph? A... B-@e. Q What type of political power was involved in your incarceration at Marcy, sir? A Again, I will ask you, do you want | my belief or do you want a statement of fact? Q I am willing for you to give your belief. A My belief. I believed that someone objected to remarks I had made about the conduct of the war. I have no exact memory of what happened at that time. I have no way of knowing how much of my memory returned after I got the electro- shock treatments. I maintained that statement as a : [295] belief at that time. I had no facts. Q Would you look at this letter showing the signature, Kenneth McCullough, sir, which is the second letter in that record? A. 56 months in a New York State Hospital. [317] New York Hospitals were at that time infested with Communists and in a generally disorganized condition similar to the one . prevailing in Chattahoochee up to this year. Iwas subjected there to some psychiat- ric horseplay which left me a mental partial cripple for about ten years. Q Go ahead, please, sir. A Before I was completely cured I was introduced to Christian Science which I give full credit for my excellent health today. Q Did you go on to say that politics was entirely responsible? A I beg your pardon? Q Did you go on to say that politics was entirely responsible? A In the following years I began the reading of law in my spare time and took an interest in politics. Because of the latter I was subjected to -- I was sub- jected to ridicule when the report of my former hospitalization became broadcast. Q Go ahead, if you will. A. 57 cp hospital that worked for him would do it. Q Did you write to Mr. O'Connor express- ing the gratitude that you were not forced to take drugs due to your Christian Science study? A Did I write him about that? Oo You, wits A No, sir, there was \no occasion to write him about it. Q If you would turn to page 186, to the report in front of you. A 186? Q Yes, sir, to see if that record refreshes your memory. I believe 186 would have to be the first records. There is so much that happened that I cannot recall all of the letters. A I wrote that. That is an honest statement. Do you want me to read it? Q No, sir. I just want to get you to confirm it. Did you receive a letter from Travelers Aid telling you that they could no longer handle you and the doc- tors could best help you? A Yes, sir. Q If you would, turn to page 312 of the record, sir, wherein you wrote to Dr. Rogers. Do you recall that letter? I think we paper clipped everything. 315 A. 58 TESTIMONY OF KENNETH DONALDSON--ReCross Examination Q August 9, 1965? A Yes. Q Now, are you aware that Mr. Davis had actually examined Mr. Donaldson over a year before the date he finally wrote the letter, that is, -- A Do you mean Dr. Calhoun? Q Dr. Calhoun had actually examined Mr. Donaldson [371] over a year and a half before he wrote that letter, that is, say, in February of 1964? Are you aware of that? A No, I wasn't ‘aware of her. Q But he didn't send in any ~ ee at that time that you | are aware - A Not that I am aware of, no. Q Now, you testified that Mr. ‘Donaldson’ 8 mental condition did not change very much during the time he was in Plorida State Hospital, is that correct? A Yes, the changes that were noted are recorded in my report. > Q Is there something called the MMPI? A Yes, sir. fp nike See — A. 59 Q Is there a test called the MMPI? A Yes, sir. Q Did you give that to Mr. Donaldson in approximately 1958? A I believe so. Q Did you give it to him very shortly before he was discharged? A I believe so. Q And is there any significant variation in the test scores? A I don't think so. Q So Mr. Donaldson was basically, his mental [372] copdition was basically the same man the day he was discharged as he was in 1958, is that fair to say? A On the basis of that test. Q All right, now, let me ask you this. You were reading from some book which indicated that it is not at all uncommon for a person diagnosed as being paranoid schizophrenic to be quite intelligent, that is true, but that is not the same thing as saying, is it, that if you are an intelligent person you are more likely A. 60 & to be schizophrenic\than if you are a stupid person, is it? A I want to be sure\I get this right. Q Let's just put it \this way. If you happen to be an intelligent person is there going to be a greater risk you are going to turn out to be schizophrenic? A No. MR. ENNIS: I have no further questions. THE COURT: You can step down, sir. Is there any further need of this witness? MR. ENNIS: No, Your Honor. He is \excused. THE COURS: es! You are excused, sir. \ MR. ENNIS: [373] Thank you, Mr. Davis. (Witness excused.) THE COURT: A A. 61 ; TESTIMONY OF DR. RAYMOND D. FOWLER--Direct Examination the paranoid reaction category, specif- ically, paranoid state, not paranoid schizophrenic. I don't see any evidence from any of the case material or test material that I have read that he is paranoid schizo- phrenic, and I would not in any analyz- ing any of the test results that I have seen here, I would never be inclined to put a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenic on this patient. I don't see either blind interpreta- tion of the test which I did, or blind interpretation putting together with all of the case information which was voluminous in this case, I simply cannot see anything to indicate that he is the furthest end of the continuing paranoid schizophrenic, therefore, I would say paranoid state. Q Dr., how much testing was done on Mr. Donaldson? ' A In the hospital he was first tested a little less than two years after he came into the hospital, and he was given test batteries. That was in 1958. He was given one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight test batteries or eight testing periods during the hospi- talization. [393] He was seen by tke psychologist more A. 62 than that, but on some occasions he was not tested. He declined to test, to be tested onsome occasions, but generally conversed with the psychologist,’ so that was written up, but no tests were given, | , Then in addition to that eight, we have Dr. Calhoun’ s evaluation which took place about midway in this stream of tests. It would be -- it is the fifth of the times that he was tested, and he was tested a total of eight times, so that includes Dr. Calhoun's test. / Q When was the latest? A The latest testing appears to have been the last report in 1970. I am sorry, 1971. Let me correct this. The summarization here does not include the final test which took place in 1971, so that would make it nine. It is eight without Dr. Calhcun's evaluation. Q Dr., over this period of time did the personality profile of Mr. Donaldson change in any significant degree from the firet test +9 the last test? : A No, I would say by and large the test results were very much the same over that period of time. Specifically, the one that you can most point to as a sort of. an objective measure, the MMPI looks .almost the same fourteen years later as ' it did previously. | Q Dr., when an MMPI is done the figures, ! A. 61 TESTIMONY OF DR. RAYMOND D. FOWLER--Direct Examination the paranoid reaction category, specif- ically, paranoid state, not paranoid schizophrenic. I don't see any evidence from any of the case material or test material that I have read that he is paranoid schizo- phrenic, and I would not in any analyz- ing any of the test results that I have seen here, I would never be inclined to put a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenic on this patient. I don't see either blind interpreta- tion of the test which I did, or blind interpretation putting together with all of the case information which was voluminous in this case, I simply cannot see anything to indicate that he is the furthest end of the continuing paranoid schizophrenic, therefore, I would say paranoid state. Q Dr., how much testing was done on Mr. Donaldson? A In the hospital he was first tested a little less than two years after he came into the hospital, and he was given test batteries. That was in 1958. He was given one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight test batteries or eight testing periods during the hospi- talization. [393] He™was seen by the psychologist more A. 62 than that, but on some occasions he was pot tested. He declined to test, to be tested onsome occasions, but generally conversed with the psychologist, so thet was written up, but no tests were given. Then in addition to that eight, we have Dr. Calhoun's evaluation which took place about midway in this strean of tests. It would be -- it is the fifth of the times that he was tested, and he was tested a total of eight times, so that includes Dr. Calhoun's test. Q When was the latest? A The latest testing appears to have been the last report in 1970. I am sorry, 1971. Let me correct this. The summarization -here does not include the final test which took place in 1971, so that would make it nine. It is eight without Dr. Calhoun's evaluation. - Q Dr., over this period of time did the personality profile of Mr. Donaldson change in any significant degree from the first test to the last test? A No, I would say by and large the test results were very much the same over that period of time. Specifically, the one that you can most point to as a sort of an objective measure, the MMPI looks almost the same fourteen years later as it did previously. PLEDREDT CABAL INS: OIE A PO a Q Dr., when an MMPI is done the figures ——— > i : re 63 are [394] taken in graft, are they not? A That is right. Q And a graft remains or is charted out? A Right. Q Do each of those grafts appear to be the same? A Very close. The primary graft charac- teristics are the same in 1958 and in 1971. The interpretation would be equivalent in those two cases, I would Say. Q Would you expect that graft to change from someone whe had been committed against his wil’? over a fifteen year period? A I am not sure I can answer that. It would just depend. I would expect some people to deteriorate very markedly over that period of time and to show a much deteriorated response. Q The fact that Mr. Donaldson did not deteriorate, does that say anything for him psychologically? A In the sense that paranoid schizophrenia | A. 64 is likely to be associated with a pro- gressive deterioration with age, I would say that that would slightly tend you away from a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. Q Dr., can we turn to the diagnosis of dangerous to himself or to others for a moment. ' Do you find anything in that record ro that would lead you to conclude, all of \ the testing, all of the data \ [395] that you have before you, that Mr. Donaldson was at anytime dangerous to himself or to others? MR. MAHORNER: : | Before you answer, I respectfully request that that record be defined so as to change that you are not referring to the hospital record, but the psycho- logical record if that is the case. MR. DEAN: Refer to the hospital records also. MR. MAHORNER: He has seen the hospital record. THE COURT: A. 65 Are ycu asking about the hospital record orly, the testing? MR. DEAN: All of his reports and all of the . testing md all of the hospital records and everything he has read. Have you seen anything in those records that would lead you to any con- clusion cr to a conclusion that he was dangerous to himself or to others at any pericd? A I would say the overwhelming impression of the test results and the hospital record was of non-violent behavior and non-probaility of any kind of acting out behavior, and I saw no evidence that he actually had acted out in any way, and I see no clear indication from the tests [396] that would indicate that he would have been predicted to. In fact, he didn't. Q Well, what is the best measure of dangerous, Dr.? A The behvior of the patient. Q Dr., I believe from the date you examined in Exhibit No., Plaintiff's Exhibit N>. 11, which is the date supplied you from Dr. Calhoun, what three tests wer? given by Dr. Calhoun to Mr. . . Donaldson? A Dr. Calhoun gave first an interview of approximately an hour and a half, and then in the remaining time, about one hour, administered a brief version of the Draw a Person Test, the Thematic Apperception Test and the Rorschach. Q Would you explain those three tests to the Jury? A All right. The Thematic Apperception Test consists of a series Of pictures about this size. Each one of the pictures is sufficiently vague so that different people might come to different conclu- sions as to what is going on in the pic- ture. The pictures are drawn somewhat sketchedly so that two different people looking at it might conclude that the person was in one case doing one thing and in another case doing another thing. [397] There is a whole long series and ordinarily we draw out a sample of those pictures thet seem to be most likely to be relevant to this patient's problems. . The Draw a Person Test simply requires that the individual draw a person. He is first told to draw a person and when he finisheaxthat he says, now, draw a person of the other sex, so that whichever A, 67 one he drew before, he draws in the Opposite sex. Then ordinarily a lengthy inquiry is given on this picture to ask, you know, what kind of person is this, what would you imagine this person does, what would he do in various circumstances. This inquiry was not done in this case. There is no indication that an inquiry was given and I don't believe that it was done. The Rorschach, again, is a series of plates, roughly this size, a little bit smaller, that are the familiar ink blot. They are er would happen if we dropped a blob of inN on ,jere, folded it over and then turned it back, so it is an abstract design, but by looking closely at it just as if you look closely at the clouds or trees, you can see things that sort of resembles and looks like and the patient is asked in each case to tell what the card reminds him of, makes him think of, what it looks like to him. You record his responses and then after you [398] have done that you go through and find out in detail on each one why he saw that particular thing and then there is a rather elaborate scoring system so that then you ‘add up the scores and rate A. 68 him with respect to certain character- istics. Now, again, on this rather brief test- ing, the testing period I gather was something in the vicinity of an hour to an hour an a half, which is about the time that is often giwen for one of the tests, so he did abbreviated testing in all three times because of the limited time. He did not do an inquiry as I can tell on the Rorschach and he did not score on the Rorschach. He scored a few of the responses, but he did not score to have it tabulate. Q Dr., in layman's language, would you tell the Jury the validity and the reliability of these three tests that Dr. Calhoun gave, say, in comparison to the MMPI? - — A Well, in my opinion it is difficult to evaluate either the validity or the reliability of the Rorschach because each individual who administers it tends to question the patient differently, tends to assign scores somewhat differently, so that if you take the same record administered by one person and give it to five psychologists, the scores are very likely to be the same for all of the psychologists scoring. There would be some general agreement as to A. 69 [399] the kind of scores, but this means there is an unreliability in the scoring of the MMPI as far as the validity of the test, in my opinion the belief in the validity of the test. Q Dr., may I interrupt you. I believe you said reliability. Unreliability in the MMPI, and you were talking about the Rorschach, were you not? A Yes. Q The unreliability is in Rorschach? A- Yes. Q Okay. A Thank you. In the Rorschach, no two people are likely to agree precisely . point for point, én the scoring, so you have an unreliability built in right at the very beginning on the Rorschach. Simularly, on the TAT, bearly can you score that at all. On ali three of these tests it is difficult to evaluate relia- bility because there is no systematic scoring system for two of the tests and only a general scoring system for the other one, so you have :to consider it in terms of scoring unreliable. In terms of the validity, it depends entirely on the sort of clinical skill of the interpreter. There is no 70 A. statistical reliability to the test. The research literature in recent years has been increasingly critical of the Rorschach as a usable test. Some of the recent reviews [400] have recommended that the Rorschach be discontinued as a clinical instrument and many universities have ceased to teach courses in Rorschach at all. Those that continue to or some of those that continue to teach courses in it do so primarily because some of the job ' placements require that the person know | how to do the Rorschach, and some of : the expectations for licensing laws still retain that, but I would say in general it is considered sort of an outmoded instrument by those people who are research oriented and who are keeping up with research. Q Does the same thing apply to the other two tests, Dr., generally? A Yes, the TAT and the Rorschach and the Draw a Person. Q Dr., which psychological tests are least reliable in predicting violence or proneness for violence? A I don't have any figures on that. I would say that most psychological tests. are not very good at predicting proneness As: 7h to violence. When you are trying to predict behavior of that sort, the actual behavior of the person is sO overwhelm- ingly important in comparison with test results that I would say observation would be your critical issue. Q Dr., assuming that you had received a call [401] and accepted employment to do psychologi- cal testing on someone in a mental hospi- tal who was seeking his release from the hospital,.what in your opinion would you do and what would be professionally proper, which test should be given? A I would certainly include at least one objective personality test if I did also administer the projective test, which I might very well do, but I would insist: on at least one objective personality test. My own preference is the MMPI. There are other objective personality tests, but I would insist on at least the MMPI results or some equivalent of some other objective type tests to get a positive scoring. I think I would, assuming the situation permitted it, I would want a long enough time available to administer all of the tests that I administered fully from beginning to end, and I would certainly A. 72 score and interpret the tests and prepare a report that gave the conclusions on it. I would assume that would be expected. Q Dr., in your opinion and from your examination of these records that we spoke of, would you have ever recommended hospitalization for Mr. Donaldson? A Let me -- are you talking about all of the records from the hospital and all? Q Let's say in 1957 and not Mar A On the basis of the test results doubt it. [402] On the basis of the description that came from the Pinellas County, I would certainly want to do a follow up and find out the accuracy of those statements. I would be inclined to not consider this person hospitalizable in general on the basis of certain psychological tests. Q Have you ever considered -- have you ever committed anyone or recommended anyone with this personality profile? A No. Q Dr., do any of these tests relate to his ability to organize his thought, his conduct? A Well, he did have some intelligence A. 73 tests which measure his intellectual functioning and whether he can organize his thinking to that extent, the TAT requires him to respond to a pretty unstructured stimulus and to develop a story sort of from beginning to end and as quickly, if somebody has disorganized thinking process because the story has no logical beginning, no logical end, so I would say those tests Clearly indicate the organization of behavior. Q And what was his organization of behavior from those tests? A Quite well organized. Q Dr., have you tested Many college students? A Oh, yes. Q Approximately how many? [403] A Directly, probably several hundred. Indirectly through supervision of my students, several thousand, I suppose. Q Are you familiar with their profiles on the MMPI testing? A Yes. Q Would you compare for the Jury, please, Mr. Donaldson with a college student, average college student, average profile? a6. A Well, Mr. Donaldson's MMPI profile is considerably more deviant than the average college student, although a sizable number of college students would have profiles as deviant or more deviant than he. | If you push to a percentage, I would say at least 10 percent and probably more. Q You have testified concerning Dr. Calhoun. You testified that he spent, I believe, an hour and a half with Mr. Donaldson and he spent approximately an hour in testing Mr. Donaldson, is that correct, sir? A I believe that is correct, approximately that. Q I would like for you to assume, if. you would, Dr. Calhoun also spent one and half minutes with the staff, and I would also like for you to assume that he did not read the hospital record and from that I would like for you to professionally critique his examination of Mr. Donaldson, [404] if you would. MR. MAHORNER : Your Honor, if it please, I would like that word, that question reworded. The witness is not in a position to critique the examination. What he is critiquing is the records made of the examination. i eee goiter aes ww . A. 75 TESTIMONY OF DR. JOHN GUMANIS--Direct Examination Erie, Pennsylvania. Let's move along to the substance of this case. BY MR. DUBOSE: Q Now, could you read to me the opinion of Dr. Ojeda? A Yes, sir. "I agree with the examiner." In other words, he agreed that the patient should remain in the [443] ° hospital. "I am of the opinion that efforts should be made in order to tréat this patient with some intensive treat- ment and medication.” Q Did you treat that patient with some intensive treatment and medication? A Mr. Donaldson at all times and all interviews refused medication. How about intensive treatment? Sir? How about -- Intensive treatment means medication. oo FF OUR. U6 It says intensive treatment. A Intensive treatment includes medica- _ tion and electroconvulsive treatments. Dr. Adair who was his doctor at receiving A. 76 service received permission for electro- convulsive treatments, but he did not receive any because he though: he did not require any. The only medication we could give him was either oral medication like Phenothiazine, like Thorazineé or Mellarii or other type medication or give him an I. M. medication. Q Could you explain the term I. M.? A I. M. medication means intermuscular . medication, giving it by needle, by ) fe injections, and if -- Q That was what the doctor meant by intensive : [444] ] treatment? A That is correct. Q He meant no -- A Either that cr electroconvulsive treatments, one or the two. Q Those were the only two things he meant? A Including occupational therapy, music therapy, religious therapy and all of the others. A. 77 Q We will get into that. Could you turn to the staff of 1964? A Yes, sir. That is on page -- I have it page 32. Q Page 32, yes, sir. Yes, sir. What is the date of that staff? “January 9, 1964. Why was that staff held? , fF 8 It could be that another letter was —— by Mr. Donaldson or we just rought him up for evaluation. Q Could you turn to pages 504, 505 and 506? A Yes, sir. I have 504. Q Do you see that letter? A From Mr. Stallings who was a State Representative from Duval County at that time. Q And he was interested in Mr. Donald- son's case? [445] A Mr. Stallings at that particular time was interested in his case. } renin ee A. 78 Q He made a visit to the hospital and He sure did. At the end of December? ° At the end of December? A Q A Sir? Q A Yes, sir, he came to the hospital to visit Mr. Donaldson. Q About a week before Mr. Donaldson went to staff, would you say that? A If you want to place it that way, yes, sir. Q So it is quite probable, then, that Mr. Stallings influence brought about this second staff? \ A If it is in your opinion that you think that Mr. -- he asked for the patient to go. : Q He asked? A He did. Q And you -- A I remember once we did, yes, sir. It could have been that. Q Did Mr. Donaldson ever ask to go to staff himself? A. 79 A Mr. Donaldson didn't have to go to staff. He could have been released from ths hospital if he was not [446] mentally sick by discharge. He could have got an out of state discharge. Q And that didn't require going to staff? A No, sir. Sometimes it doesn't’ require it. It was up to the superintendent's pleasure, the superintendent and the clinical director. Q Could you turn to No's. 526 and 527? A 526, yes, sir. Q Is that a letter or a carbon of a letter from Dr. O'Connor to Representa- tive Stallings? A Yes. Q And does that report the results of the staff of January 9? A It reports -- what was your last question, sir? Q Is that a report to Representative Stallings of the staff conference held on that day? A On 524, here it says, it gives the A. 80 date that Mr. Donaldson will come to the hospital. é Q* 526 and 527, excuse me. ae A 526, all right, 526, yes, sir. Q So Dr. O'Connor certainly felt that Representative Stallings wanted an immediate report on the staff? A If you want to take it that way, yes, sir. Q Now, let's turn back to the staff, itself. Just a minute. 2% [447] A In 1964? Q In 1964. A That is 34, isn't it? Q Turn to page 33, the last doctor. A 33? Q Yes. A Q - Yes, would you read the quotation from Dr. O'Connor? A-"Dr. O'Connor: No question about me agreeing. The consensus of opinion is A. 81 to hold him in the hospital; that he is % incompetent and considered to be dangerous to others; and that he should be held in the hospital until further improvement." Q Now, at that staff conference none » Of the other doctors are recorded as having said Mr. Donaldson was dangerous, are they? A No, it is not here. They felt that he was paranoid and incompetent, so even if he is paranoid and incompetent, he still stays in the hospital, even with those two characterizations. Q Okay, but I am interested in Dr. O'Connor's characterization of dangerous. Do you -- A That was his personal opinion. Q Was there any evidence at the staff, presented [448] to the staff meeting in your recollection that would have given a foundation for that conclusion? A I don't remember if this was the particular time Mr. Donaldson and Dr. Dunin had a run-in together in 1964, but, and this is the thing that may -- I think they both were banging the table, so it could have been from that. A. 82 Q Do you remember the name John Lembcke? A Yes, sir. Q Who is John Lembcke? “~ [455] A John Lembcke was an accouptant from New York, Binghamton, New York, or Utica, New York, with whom Mr. Donaldson corresponded and was trying to discharge him in his care. Q Would you turn to 540, please? A 540, yes, sir. Q Now, is this a request for Mr. Lembcke to have Mr. Donaldson released in his care? A Yes, sir. Q Now, when you received that letter was there a note attached onto it? I believe it is No. 538. A When I received this letter? Q Yes. A Or just this little clipping here? Q Right, and is that note in Dr. O'Connor's handwriting? A Yes, this is in O'Connor's handwriting. % Se ene A. 83 a Q@ Could you read it? I am going to pass it among the Jury, but handwriting is sometimes difficult to people who aren't familiar with it. A Oh, what Dr. O'Connor said, yes, let me see. I guess he is referring to Mr. Lembcke and I remember about this. This man -- Q Just read from the beginning. _A The note is addressed from Dr. O'Connor to [456] Dr. Gumanis, and he says, "This man, himself, must not be well to want to get involved with someone like this patient, who even the recent visiting psychological considered dangerous." Q Did you dictate this letter? It is No. 541. A Yes, my initials are on there. I dictated it. Q Could you just explain to the Jury the significance of the initials below? A The initials? Q Below the signature block. A Well, the letters were signed by the Clinical director. Q Right. A But the letter was composed by the physician. Q And those, the initials J. G. below mean that you dictated the letter? A Right. Q Now, did you dictate that letter in response to Dr. O'Connor's note? A Sir? Q Did you touts that letter in response to Dr. O'Connor's note? A No. As to the condition of Mr. Donald- son, I thought the man was still sick at this time, because this is July of 1964 and he had recently gone to staff. [457] Q Let's turn back to - O'Connor's note. A Yes, sir. Q I don't think you read this small section down there in the lower left hand corner. Would you please read that? A “Recommend --" I don't -- Q What does it say? A. 85 A “Recommend turn it down." a Q "Recommend turn it down", so it was A Dr. O'Connor was the one that was going to sign the release if this patient was discharged. Q So it was his recommendation not to release Mr. Donaldson to Mr. Lembcke? A I gave Mr. Lembcke a resume of the patient's mental condition and then I later on put in the wishes of Dr. O'Connor, that the, and we gave him the -- we gave him the condition how he was, a picture of his condition. Q Now, did you speak -- A Because, excuse me, because if this patient was released to Mr. Lembcke in .New York, in Binghamton, New York, Dr. O'Connor was the one that would sign the discharge. Q So that -- A With the Clinical Director together. \. Q So that Dr. O'Connor was the one who, if he disapproved of it, you might as well forget about it, is that [458] right? } A. 86 A That is correct. That is what it comes down to, to any superintendent | of any hospital, and it is the same in any state. Q Did you speak to the Plaintiff before you wrote the letter to Mr. Lembcke? QA I think I did. I don't recall offhand. I probably did. When did he go to staff in 1964? Q He went to staff a good deal before that, I believe, in January of 1964. A Because I knew Mr. Donaldson's. January of 1964, that is correct, but I interviewed him later on, too. Q What did you know about Mr. Lembcke’ at the time you wrote that letter? A What did I know about Mr. Lembcke? He just asked for some information about the patient. Q Didn't he ask to have the patient released in his care? A Yes, sir, Q And you sent him a letter rejecting that request, did you not? A Well, if the superintendent told us that he will not sign any papers dis- charging him, I could not do anything else. I could --. Q Co you know if -- A. 87 [459] x= could not discharge him. Q Do you know if Dr. O'Connor knew any- thing about Mr. Lembcke? A I wouldn't know. I don't think so, because Mr. Lembcke, I think, didn't come down to Tallahassee until 1966. Q So he had never been down here, nobody at the hospital had ever seen him, right? A Yes, sir. Q Now, did you think that Mr. Lembcke, and I will pull the note, must not be well to want to get involved with the Plaintiff? A No, I cannot say that. - ~g Q In your interrogatory -- never mind, Now, did you communicate to Dr. O'Connoz that you didn't agree with him? A I didn't say that I didn't agree with him. I thought the patient was still mentally sick. Q Oh, you did? ,Well, I am talking about Mr. Lembcke. A Oh, no, I didn't say anything. That was his personal opinion. I didn't dis- cuss that. A. 88 Q You didn't agree with that? A I didn't discuss that. Q The question -- [460] A How could I agree when I didn't know Mr. Lembcke at that time? Q Did you tell Dr. O'Connor that? A I didn't tell him anything. He probably sent me this note. Q Was he the kind of a man that you couldn't tell things to? A Oh, yes, we talked with Dr. O'Connor, could talk to him. Q But you went along with his decision that Mr. Lembcke was not -- A You have to go with the decision of the superintendent most of the time. MR. MAHORNER: Your Honor, we object to the statement as being unfair because the decision was to keep the man in the hospital. The reasons for it may vary, but when he states a question this way, he went along with his decision, and then ties it in to that note, it is unfair to the witness. THE COURT: Well, the question was, as I understand it, did you agree with Dr. O'Connor that Mr. Lembcke was not a proper person for this man to be released. THE WITNESS: We only had seven -- [461] THE COURT: Well, wasn't that the intent of your question? ’ BY MR. DUBOSE: Q Yes, sir. A There was only seven lines in this letter. I couldn't form an opinion of what Mr. Lembcke was except that he was a certified public accountant. That is all I know about him. THE COURT: Did you or did you not agree with Dr. O'Connor? THE WITNESS: I had to agree with Dr. O'Connor. THE COURT: A. 90 years and I don't see it in here. Q Is there any indication in the record that you can see that such an investiga- tion was ordered? A If it was it was not in here or in my notes’ That was in July of 1964. Q I believe your letter was dated July 2, 1964. . Sir? A Q I believe your letter was dated July 7, 1964. A The only thing I have in here on July 7, 1964, is that Mr. Donaldson resides on ward, shows no particular changes mentally. He is still delusional and his judgement [466] is poor. States he will live in Syracuse, New York, and receives Social Security of $100.00, $101.00, and Mr. Lembcke, a public accountant, wishes to sponsor him in New York. However, Dr. O'Connor does ‘ not agree with this man. That is all I wrote. Q Would you turn to 553, please? A Sir? Page 553 im the record. A Yes, sir. Q Have you seen that letter before? A I presume I have. This is the first time I have seen it. I,have seen a lot of correspondence of Mr. Lembcke. Q When you received that was No. 554 attached to it? That is the small card stapled to the front. A Well, as I said before, Dr. O'Connor was the one that should release this patient and he gave us directions as to what to do. Q But this note was attached to it when you got it? A Yes. Q Again, would you read the note to the Jury, please? A The note, I believe must have parents consent, number one. Dr. Gumanis, I believe must have parents consent. [467] Number two, patient will not stay with party mentioned. Number three, we don't know anything about party, etc. O'Connor, please answer in negative. Q And in response to that note, did you write No. 555? A. 92 A I sure did. Q Dr. O'Connor gave a number of reasons this time why he was turning down Mr. Lembcke, didn't he? A I gave -- he might have given that reason, but I had my reasons, too. I thought Mr. Donaldson was ill. Q You wouldn't have released him, either? A I wouldn't have released him, either, no, except if they made special arrange- ments like have the patient follow up with psychiatric care and everything else. Q Any other special arrangements that you would have required? A Just about that. Q Why didn't you mention them in your letter to Mr. Lembcke? A Sir? Q Why didn't you mention those require- ments to Mr. Lembcke? A I listed the requirements that Dr. O'Connor had in his note, because he was the one that was to release the patient. [468] Q Why didn't you mention his requirements A. 93 to Mr. Lembcke? A He told me to put it in a negative manner and that is exactly what I done. Q If Dr. O'Connor said no, you didn't think it was worthwhile letting Mr. Lembcke know what his reasons were because Dr. O'Connor's no was a solid, firm no? A I couldn't do anything because I could not release the patient. Dr. -- as I said before, Dr. O'Connor was the one that had to sign his release with the Clinical Director. They were the two — that were responsible for release to another state. Q Is there any indication in the record that Dr. O'Connor made any effort to find out anything about Mr. Lembcke or to communicate with him the reasons why he > thought Mr. Lembcke would be an unsatis- factory patron of Mr. Donaldson? A I don't recall them. Q Just take a look. at the progress notes if you want and see if you can find anything. A Do you mean my progress notes? Q Yes. A I don't recall any. I don't see any- thing in here, Q But didn't Mr. Lembcke, in his letter, say [469] | that he would be willing to give any information that the hospital desired? A Well, if Dr. O'Connor wanted a negative answer, we couldn't go ahead and investi- gate Mr. Lembcke, as you say. Q Now, did Mr. Lembcke ever visit the Florida State Hospital? X A I think he visited the Florida State Hospital during 1966. Q And did you meet him during that visit? A He came down to my office, I remember, I think. I recall it. Q What was your opinion of Mr. Lembcke? \ A He looked all right to me. Q After you took Mr. Lembcke, where did he go. . A I escorted him over to Dr. O'Connor's office. Q and Dr. -- N A As far as I could recollect, now. I don't remember, but I think I did, because I could not give Mr. \Lembcke an answer. Q Excuse me. I didn't hear your answer.: A I could not give him an answer as to A. 95 the release. I talked to him about the patient's condition, what we thought about it, but I couldn't give him an answer as to release plans. He had to see Dr. O'Connor. Q But as far as you could tell, Mr. Lembcke [470] would have been adequate to manage Mr. Donaldson? A As far as I could tell. I didn't see anything wrong with Mr. Lembcke. He talked all right to me, Q Was there anything that Florida State Hospital provided for Mr. Donaldson that Mr. Lembcke couldn't have provided? A I don't know what Mr. Lembcke could provide for the patient. Q Well, what did the Florida State Hospital provide? A Well, we tried to give the patient medication. He refused that on the basis of his religious belief. Q So that wasn't something you provided? A No, it was not. Q What else did you provide for Mr. Donaldson? A. 96 A We tried to make him as comfortable as we could. Q Could Mr. Lembcke have done that? A It could be. |__Q Anything else? A Well, he had, shall we say, milieu therapy which included religious therapy, recreational therapy. He didn't receive much occupational therapy in our depart- ment, and other forms. Q Let's go through those things. Religious [471] therapy. He could have gone to a church? A Yes. Q With Mr. Lembcke, couldn't he? A Right. Q And he could have gotten a job, couldn't he? A Could the patient have had a job? Q I mean he could have gotten a job when he was living with Mr. Lembcke? A It is possible, yes, sir. , : : es eestor A. 97 Q So that was about the same thing as occupational therapy, right? A Is that about the same thing as occupational therapy? Q Occupational therapy, wouldn't it serve, the same purposes? A Well, I would say so, yes, sir. Q And he could have amused himself any way he wanted, could he not, and that would be about the same as recreational therapy, wouldn't it? A Yes. Q So really there was nothing that Mr. Donaldson received at Florida State Hospital that Mr. Lembcke couldn't have given him, isn't t»=t true? A Well, I don't know if Mr. Lembcke could have provided him with supervision that the patient had at [472] Florida State Hospital. Q What kind of supervision did he have? A He wasn't free to go out and express his various delusions. Q Oh, Mr. Lembcke probably couldn't have kept him locked up, is that right? TRANSCRIPT OF TESTIMONY 11/27/72 A. 98 PROCEED‘INGS November 27, 1972 _ [4] THE COURT: ‘ Good morning. Be seated, please. Would Counsel _—— the bench, please. (Whereupon, the Attorneys approached the bench.) MR. DUBOSE: We are continuing with the testimony of John Gumanis, please. WHEREUPON — ; JOHN GUMANIS ' the witness on the stand at the time of the recess, resumed to the stand and testified further: DIRECT EXAMINATION MR. DUBOSE: i Q The last time we were discussing the | t t ee A. 99 possibility of release for mr. Donaldson I am afraid we may have confused the Jury a bit. Could you explain to the Jury the different types of releases which were possible at the Florida State Hospital? A There were three different releases. . First was furlough, which was signed by the attending Psychiatrist and the Superintendent. The second release was an out of State discharge which was signed by the Physical Director andthe Super- intendent, and the third release was a competency discharge which was signed by various Doctors, the Super- intendent and the Clinical Director. [5] Q Now comes the competency discharge, when someone received that, then all of their rights were restored. Is that xight? A They usually go to the Courts and have their rights restored. They could do it within thirty days, I believe. Q That doesn't happen automatically in the other types of discharge, does it? A. 100 A No, sir. Q In those types of discharge the patient could still be mentally ill could he not? Se ee A Could be, yes, sir, especially on a furlough. We--may I explain some- thing? We give the furlough because it is easier for the patients. A furlough is good for one year and the relatives could return the patient back to the hospital. Q So you have, yourself, furloughed patients who were still mentally ill? A I have furloughed patients, yes, sir. ae Q So the fact that Mr. Donaldson was mentally ill when Mr. Lembcke wrote into the hospital to release him did not itself bar xelgase of Mr. Donaldson, did it? A May I get that question again, please? Pecan AB hip 20 Cte th be A nah i & Q Well, you said before that when Mr. Lembcke wrote in for Mr. Donaldson's ; release Mr. Donaldson was mentally ill still, but--that alone wouldn't have been enough reason to bar? A No, sir. SEE EE « A. 101 (6] Q For a competency discharge you had to go before a Staff, is that correct? A Yes, sir. Q You didn't for the other two? A No, sir. Q What kind of power did you alone have to release Mr. Donaldson? A The only power I had was to 6n a furlough, but on this particular case Doctor O'Connor knew the case for two and a half years and I had to ask Doctor O'Connor if this patient to even would have released on a furlough. Q But normally you could have released him on furlough by yourself? A Sometimes, yes, sir, on very diffi- cult cases we consulted the Clinical Director or the Superintendent. Q But in this particular case Doctor O'Connor had made it clear to you that he wanted to have the final Say on release? A He had not made it clear to me. We knew the specific cases, some specific cases that were complicated. We had to receive the permission either of the Clinical Director or the A. 102 Superintendent. Other cases that were ordinary cases went home, we just went ahead and furloughed him ourselves and Doctor O'Connor also signed, the Superintendent signed the furlough papers. Q But you know that Doctor O'Connor ‘in this particular case would want to approve it himself? , (7] A Well, I knew the case was compli- cated. . Q Now, how come the Plaintiff was eventually discharged from the hospital? A Well, the patient was - Mr. Donaldson was transferred from my department in 1967 and I know that he was finally discharged by three doctors that saw him, Doctor Rodriguez, Doctor Pinell, who is in Texas now, and who was a Clinical Director at that time and from Doctor O'Connor, and Doctor i Hirshberg. Q And he didn't go before Staff then, did he? A I don't know if he went before Staff but I would not know that for he was never in my department. SSAct Oe ee A. 103 has personal knowledge of it, which he has already stated he didn't, dis- cuss this letter with the Jury, but if you wish to read the letter to the Jury, read it. It is already in evidence, [9] MR. DUBOSE: Q It is already in evidence. 1 just wanted to bring a conjunction. Now, you say that Doctor O'Connor knew of Mr. Donaldson's case? A He knew of Mr. Donaldson's case because he was the attending Psy- Chiatrist from December 1957 until October of 1959. He was not Assistant Clinical Director or Clinical Director Or Superintendent. His position at the hospital was Staff Psychiatrist of Department "A", Q So he was Staff Psychiatrist up until 1959 and where was he located in the department? A Department "A." Q That was the department that you are now on? A Yes. Q And you were on then? A. 104 A I was there with him, his associate, yes, sir. Q And Doctor O'Connor was in charge of the department? A Yes. Q And he was also Plaintiff's attending Psychiatrist? A That is right. Q After that period you were the attending Psychiatrist? A After that period I was, and about, at least five other Psychiatrists. Q Who were the other Psychiatrists? A The other Psychiatrists were Doctor Shaw, [10] Doctor Chacon, Doctor Haneson and Doctor Rodriguez. Q Well, let us say that up until 1967 when he had left Department "A," what other Psychiatrists had contact with Mr. Donaldson? A Doctor Shaw and Doctor Chacon. Q But you had most of the contact? A. 105 Q How long was Doctor Shaw in Depart- ment "A?" A I believe two or three years. [11] Q And Doctor Chacon? A I mean Doctor Chacon, I didn't re- member Doctor Shaw. It was about a year, I presume. Q A very short period? A I don't recall. Q How come there are no progress notes from Doctor O'Connor in the record. Do you know why that is? A Well, Doctor O'Connor usually did not make any notes. The only notes were when he had, when he interviewed the patient and when he had letters, the letters from 1957 to 1960 are all from the parents, from Kenneth, Mr, Donaldson, were all answered by Doctor O'Connor. Q After that all the letters up until 1967 were answered by you, is that true? A Right, yes, sir, Q Even though Doctor Shaw and Doctor Chacon occasionally came into the A. 106 picture, they never corresponded with the outside parties? A No, sir. Q Now, if you could turn to the. progress notes of March. A What page is that on, please? Q It is Page 66, March 5, 1964. That is at the bottom of the page. A Yes, sir. . Q It states that Mr. Donaldson wanted $100.00 sent to his daughter in order to facilitate his discharge to the Half-Way House in Minnesota? [12] A Yes. Q There is a parenthetical note here, after consultation with Doctor O'Connor it was decided that it would not be sent until arrangements for ~ the patients release were made. A Usually if a patient asks for a large amount of money over $30.00 or $40.00 it was up to the Super- intendent or the Clinical Director to decide on that. Q And why did Doctor O'Connor decide - ‘ not to send money? : A. 107 [13] past, myself, without consulting Doctor O'Connor. If Mr. Donaldson wanted to go to his parents, that is either Kenneth refused, saying that he didn't want to go, or that he would tell me consult my lawyer, or in 1964 he brought Mr. Stallings into the picture. Q Well, in April of 1964 you were | willing to let him go to his parents. Why weren't you willing to let him go to Mr. Lembcke in July of 1964? A I told you before that wasn't my decision. It was up to the Super- intendent to decide if Mr. Donaldson was to be released to Mr. Lembcke. It was an out of State discharge and I could not sign anything like that. It was up to Doctor O'Connor and the Clinical Director. Q And you had no opinions one way or the other in the matter? A I could not do anything, no sir. Q Now, if you will turn to Document No. 495, please. A Yes. Q We looked at the last time period was a letter to Helping Hands turning down their request to Mr. Donaldson? 495? 495, yes, sir. >» O » Yes, sir. Q Now, you said you wrote this and your initials are in the lower left hand corner? A Correct. {14] Q Doctor O'Connor's initials are also there? A Correct. Q In what roll did he have in composing that, letter? A I told you the other day, I presume, in my deposition I said that I was of the opinion the patient would be helped from Helping Hands. I still think the patient could have been helped by Helping Hands. Q So it was primarily Doctor O'Connor's opinion that Mr. Donaldson should not be released to Helping Hands? A It was in Minnesota, so, I had nothing to do with it. Q I am just trying to locate where the decision was made, not to send -- | A. 109 A The decision was made by Doctor O'Connor, the Superintendent, yes, sir. . Q oO. K. A And it was still made at the hospital, the policy for out of State discharges, . OY anything else, still in this State are made by the Superintendent or the Clinical Director. Q Did you ever refuse to see Mr. Donaldson? A I don't recall. Q Did you ever refuse to see any patient at Florida State Hospital? A Sometimes if we have meetings in the afternoon I would tell them to see me another time. [15] Q Did you ever refuse to see a patient that was brought to you on a stretcher because he wasn't on your list? A We treat all emergencies at once. Q Is that a yes or no, or did you ever refuse to see a patient? A. 110 A I have never refused to see a patient on a stretcher. Q Does the name Joe Lewis Simmons recall any particular incident to your mind? A Simmons? Q Simmons, Joe Lewis Simmons? A No, sir, but I remember the name, but I don't recall the patient. Q And you do not recall refusing to see him when he was brought to you on a stretcher? A I do not recall it, no sir. MR. MAHORNER: Your Honor , the question was worded as a statement that the man was brought and I object on that basis. THE COURT: The objection is over-ruled. MR. DUBOSE: Q Now, we have been talking about release to Mr. Donaldson's parents, and the release that required the consent of his parents? A Yes, sir. A. 111 Q And we discussed the age of his parents. [16] Would you ‘open to Document No. 496? A Yes, sir, Q That is a letter from’ Mr. Donaldson's parents, is it not? A Yes. Q And you answered that letter, didn't you? . a =. @id. Q Doesn't the letter state that Mr. Donaldson's age, that is, the Senior Mr. Donaldson's age was 85? A Yes, sir. Q And you received this letter the day after you wrote to Helping Hands, didn't you, Saying that he would only be released to his parents? A In Helping Hands, this letter was written at this time, yes, sir. Q Right. Now, when you wrote back to his parents on July 25 or June 25, Why didn't you mention that Helping Hands had requested to have Mr. Donaldson Ul | , ' released? A There is. correspondence here that I could not--there is a correspondence further down--that there was corres- pondence going between the Superintendent. There is a letter to Doctor Stallings, Mr. Stallings, in Jacksonville, here. At the same time in 1963 there was correspondence being carried by the Superintendent and a Helping Hands to have the patient released. | / Q I am asking you’ why on June 25 you didn't tell the parents that this was being done if parental permission was going to eventually be required? [17] /A I don't think it was my position to do that. The permission, if it was to be requested in the final decision, on that would have been the Super- intendent. Q You didn't think it was worth mentioning to the parents? A I thought that it could have been worth mentioning, yes, sir, but I was not the one to.make the decision on it. Q But the parents would have to make a decision about releasing Mr. Donaldson, wouldnt they? Seen ae A. 113 A I presume he did. Q That showed he was pretty competent, didn't it? ° A He was pretty -- Q Competent. He could do things with his hands? A Well, manual things, I presume ke could have. Q So he probably could have earned a living if he had gone cut of the hospital? A I guess so, yes, sir. [38] Q What is custodial care? A Custodial care is when the patient mostiy does not receive medication and he receives other types and forms of therapy, but usually it is not when he does not receive any treatment at ‘all. Q Now, will custodial care help a paranoid schizophrenic? A Sir? Q Wiil custodial care help a paranoid schizophrenic? TT | A. 114 rat nt ngs 1h ETL GEM A No, sir. Paranoid schizophrenics require medication. Q Then why -- A And other forms of therapy. Q Then why did you order that Mr. i Donaldson in a number of progress : notes you say continue custodial care? A Out of the 53 notes it is written in there into the chart, custodial care is mentioned into the first note because, and I put that in there because the patient was not receiving any medication at that time. He refused medication and the other two times I usually place this custodial : care is because of the patient refused medication. Q Well, all I wanted to know is why did you order custodial care if you knew it wouldn't do any good? THE COURT: [39] He just got through telling you twice . 4 How many times are you going to ask him the question? Move on. A. 115 MR. DUBOSE: Q What therapy did Mr. Donaldson receive? A Mr. Donaldson, because he refused his medication and he also refused a few times individual and group therapy, his treatment was mostly milieu therapy which included recrea- tional therapy, religious therapy, music therapy and other activities that the hospital could provide. Q What does recreational therapy consist of? A Dancing, Playing instruments. Q Hobbies? A Sir? Q Hobbies, amusements, a movie occavionally? A A movie, yes, sir. Q What did musical therapy consist of? A Well, they went to the dances and I think some of the patients were occupied in learning how to Play instru- ments or play with the band. They had their own band. Q What did religious therapy consist of? ee eessenssteseeenstessssserenensesses ee A. 116 A Activities in church and the pastor and the preacher visited them at the hospital. Q In other words, the therapy he received was to be able to go to movies, to be able to go to dances and to be rateecel 8 [40] able to go to church? ; A That is what the hospital records -- Q He could have received those on the outside, couldn't he? ! A He could but he could also receive other forms of therapy on the outside, too. Q To turn back to these progress notes for a moment, weren't most of these progress notes, which record contact you have with the plaintiff, weren't most of those of an administrative nature? A No, sir. Q Then most of them were of a therapeutic nature? A Therapeutic and diagnostic nature. Q I turn to your deposition, page 5l, lines five through eight. % ee A. 117 A He escaped. They had him in the agri- cultural department as far as I can remember and he escaped from them and then he returned back and then he was assigned to the dining room area, I believe. Q But did he after that work on the ward, itself? He was on a closed ward, was he not? A He did at times, Kenneth helped elderly patients, yes, sir. Q And I think at one point stopped doing any work on the wards? A As far as I could recall, he did. Q And did you talk to him about that? A No, sir, but I don't recall. Q Well, wouldn't that have been an important point to talk to him? ~ Didn't the fact that he had stopped working [42] Signify that he was giving up? A We usually do not try to force the patients to work that I know it would have been of therapeutic value to him if he continued working, but on the other hand, we do not try to force A. 118 the patients to work. Q But you didn't talk to him to find out why he had quit? A No, sir, I did not talk to him but I don't recall talking to him but I don't recall. Q Now, while Mr. Donaldson was in Department A he never had grounds privileges, did he? A Correct. Q Why not? A He didn't have the grounds privileges because I consulted the superintendent and he advised me not to give any and there was a history that he ran away once. Q Now, in the progress note -- A What page is that on? Q 11/62. A What page? The very bottom of page 65.:° It says asked for privilege grounds and request denied. A Correct that I consulted Doctor O'Connor and we decided not to give him one. A.- 119 Q Why did you decide not to give him one? [43] A Let me read my notes first. That note is.on the bottom of the page. Q The very bottom of page 65? A Oh, 65? Is that 1962? What is the date on the note? Q That is the very bottom, 7/11/62. A 7/11/62? Q Let me read it to you in its entirety if you cannot find it. Patient states that other patients called him a homo and called his family bad names, asked for pri- vilege care, request denied. A Yes. Q Why did you deny that card? A I thought that Mr. Donaldson at that particular time in 1962 Mr. Donaldson, between 1962 and 1963, was really upset. Q He was really upset? | A Yes, sir. Q And it was necessary to keep him on a locked ward? A. 120 A That is correct. Q And this was a decision you reached on your own without consulting Doctor O'Connor? A I probably did, yes, sir. Q And you thougtt this was of therapeutic value? [44] : A It wasn't a matter of therapeutic value, but it was a matter that the patient was delusional at that parti- cular time. He wrote numerous letters at that particular time to various persons expressing that he was poisoned, chemicals were placed in his body and other -- Q And because he wrote the letter he had to stay on the ward? A Psychotic patients do stay on the ward, yes, sir, but we try to keep them on until a remission is produced to release him or put to them on the out- side. Q While Mr. Donaldson was on the ward, did you ever observe him to be in any way physically dangerous, violent, agressive? A 6G. e42. A. 121 Q So he wasn't a dangerous person? A I wouldn't say he was dangerous. I cannot say what he would have done on theoutside but whilehe was in the hospital he never showed any homicidal tendencies. Q And is there anything into the hospital record that indicated on the outside that he was -- A Well, the commitment papers state that the patient was potentially dangerous, if I am not mistaken, because of his delusions. Q But that is the only evidence that you have? A As far as I could remember. [45] MR. DUBOSE: May I have a moment, Your Honor? THE COURT: Yes, sir. MR. DUBOSE: Now, what good did you think further hospitalization would do for the plaintiff? A. 122 TESTIMONY OF DR. JOHN GUMANIS--Cross Examination [61] Q When was the last time that you acted as attending physician to Mr. Donaldson? A March of 1967. Q Did you see him in a medical capacity after that as to staff or anything? A I saw him at the staff during 1968. Q O.K., then after 1967 was 1968 that one time in staff in 1968 the only time that you saw him in a medical capacity? A Yes, sir. Q Did the defendant ever refuse to go to a trial visit in your presence or decline to take a trial visit? A He declined a few times, yes sir. ,THE COURT: Are you talking about Mr. Donaldson? MR. MAHORNER: Q I apologize to the Court and the jury. Mr. Donaldson. A Mr. Donaldson refused numerous times saying he either didn't want to, he couldn't get along with his parents, or that he will consult and his lawyer and later on it was that he wanted to consult Mr. Stallings. A.: 123 danger, but who needed treatment? A Correct. Q What is the primary method of treating a disorder [66] of the nature that Mr. Donaldson had suffered under? A Well, in the past it was electro- convulsive treatments which he received at the Marcy State Hospital, but later On with the medication it was milieu therapy, medication, group therapy and psychotherapy. Q Why wasn't Mr. Donaldson given medication? A He wasn't given medication because during my first interview he told me that he belonged to the Christian Science group, and that he told me not to force medication on him, so I respected his religious beliefs. Q Did Mr. Donaldson ever speak to you as to the Representative Stallings? A Did he speak to me about Mr. Stallings? Q Yes. A Yes, sir, he éid. A. 124 What did he state to you at any time specifically as to whether Mr. Stallings represented him as his lawyer, or do you recall? A I think he told me once that he was his lawyer. Q Now, as to -- it has been brought out, Mr. Donaldson has three children. A Four. Q Are you married? A Yes, sir. Q Do you have any children? A I have two children, ages 4 and 2. MR. MAHORNER: I have no further questions. REDIRECT EXAMINATION 7 MR. DUBOSE: Q Just a couple short redirect questions. When did Mr. Donaldson refuse to go on trial A. 125 [65] visits? A He refused to go on trial visits as the told me again he, couldn't get along with his parents. THE COURT: The question was when. MR. DUBOSE: | Q The question was when. When did he refuse? A When? Q Yes, sir. A I think it was about 1964. Q Did you record that in his progress notes? A I don't recall, but I think there is a letter somewhere. I don't remember. Q Did you communicate at all with his parents concerning the trial visits? Ato, sis. No, sir. Q When did Mr. Donaldson refuse vocational rehabilitation? / A In 1967. ,Q Did you record that in the progress notes? A I don't recall. It is five years now, but it might be in the record, but I don't recall. Q Would you just take a look? It is’ right’ in front of you, page 67, I believe, or pag [Text truncated at 120,000 characters. The full text is on the page linked above.] --- Source: Frix Law Library, https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40386414_0445%3A01. Public record. Not legal advice.