# Appendix — Richard v. Indiana

> Briefs, arguments, decisions, and more.

URL: https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40386016_0349%3A2

## Record

- **Collection:** Supreme Court brief
- **Document type:** Appendix
- **Published:** January 1, 2006
- **Citation:** 546 U.S. 1091

## Text

Said items constitute evidence of the commission of

the offense of Possession of Marijuana and Possession

of Paraphernalia.

Affiant believes there is probable cause to search

based upon the following facts
Patty Keim (Riddle School Counselor) contacted me on
today’s date. She stated that she was approached by a student
by the name of [C.R.] and told her she had been in one her
barns on Friday, October 10 after school. While in the barn
she observed what she believed was marijuana. | advised |
would come to the school to speak with the student.
At approximately 1:00PM | went to Riddle Elementary
Schoo! to speak with [C.R.], Mrs. Keim, and Mrs. Johnson
(School Principal). During the interview(C.R.] again stated
she had been in the barn on Friday and found what she
believed was marijuana. She stated she knows what it is
because she has been around it before [C.R.} stated she was
in the barn just to the east of her house with a U-shaped drive.
She houses rabbits in this barn. She stated near her rabbit
cages there are blue tarps and under the tarps is located
several plants drying. She also stated there is a blue tub that

contains camouflage bags with the same type of plant
material. [C.R.] then stated that in the barn near this same

barn was an upper area she gained access to by climbing a
ladder. In this area she located more of the same type of
plants drying

| asked [C.R.} if they had any marijuana in the house. She
stated they always had marijuana in the drawer near the stove.
She stated they kept it in a white case. She then spoke of a
hidden room in the basement area near the furnace room. She
stated this room had bi-fold doors and then remove items
from in front of the panel and then go into the dim room. She

stated she had been in the room before when there were plants
growing. She is not aware if there are any plants in there at
this tyme

Wherefore affiant requests the Court to issue a search warrant
directing the search for and seizure of the above-described

property
Ex. Vol., State’s Ex. 1; Appellant’s App. Pp. | 1-12

The warrant was issued and executed at |:58 p.m. on October
13, 2003. During their search of the Richard property, the officers
found marijuana in a kitchen drawer and master bedroom. In a
“hidden room” in the basement the officers found marijuana, buckets
of dirt, and plant fragments on the floor. In the barns, officers found
camouflaged bags with small quantity of marijuana inside and a barrel
full of marijuana. In a second barn, they discovered a large quantity
of marijuana in the loft. The net weight of the marijuana was 15.35

pounds.
On October 17, 2003, Richard was charged with two counts

of Class C felony dealing in Marijuana,’ Class D felony battery, and

Class A misdemeanor resisting law enforcement. On December 22,
2003, Richard filed a motion to suppress the evidence seized during
the search of his house and barns. The motion was denied and
Richard moved to certify the trial court’s order for interlocutory
appeal. The trial court denied Richard's motion to certify.

On April 6, 2004, Richard pled guilty to battery as a Class
charge. A bench trial commenced on that same day. The trial court

A misdemeanor and the State dismissed the resisting law enforcement

’ The first count alleged that Richard possessed more than ten pounds of
marijuana with the intent to deliver and the second count alleged that Ruchard

manufactured more than ten pounds of maryuana. Appeilant’s App. P. 8

found Richard guilty of both counts of Class C felony dealing in
marijuana. At sentencing, the court withheld entry of judgment on
one count of Class C felony dealing in marijuana and sentenced
Richard to a term of six years executed on the second count of Class
C felony dealing in marijuana. He was also sentenced to time served
on the Class A misdemeanor battery conviction. Richard now
appeals. Additional facts will be provided as necessary.
Discussion and Decision
Richard argues that the trial court abused its discretion when

it admitted the evidence seized during the search of this house and

barns. “The evidentiary rulings of a trial court are afforded great

deference and are reversed on appeal only upon a showing of an
abuse of discretion.” Reynolds vy. State, 797 N.E.2d 864, 867 (Ind.
Ct. App. 2003). An abuxe of discretion occurs if a trial court’s

decision is clearly against the logic and effect of the facts and
circumstances before it. Pickens vy. State, 764 N.E.2d 295,297 (Ind.
Ct. App. 2002), trans, denied.

Richard argues that the search warrant was not supported by probable
cause because the probable cause affidavit did not “contain facts
sufficient enough to establish eight-year-old C.R.’s

credibility and basis of knowledge.” Dr. of Appellants at 7. Richard
also contends that the affidavit did not contain sufficient information
corroborating C.R.’s hearsay statements.

Both the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution
and Article One, Section Eleven of the Indiana Constitution demand
that no search warrant be issued unless it is supported by probable
cause. “Probable cause is a ‘fluid concept incapable of precise
definition. ..{that]} is to be decided based on the facts of each case.”
Creekmore vy. State, 800 N.E.2d 230, 233 (ind. Ct. App. 2003)
(quoting Figert v. State, 686 N.E.2d 827, 830 (Ind. 1997)).

In deciding whether to issue a search warrant, “’[t}he take of

the issuing magistrate is simply to make a practical, common sense

decision whether, given all the circumstances set forth in the
affidavit...there is a fair probability that contraband or evidence of a
crime will be found in a particular place.” Query v. State, 745
N.E.2¢ 769, 771 (ind. 2001) (quoting Illinois v. Gates, 462 U.S. 213,
238 (1983)). The duty of the reviewing cour is te determine whether
the magistrate had a “substantial basis” for concluding that probable

cause existed. Id. A “substantial basis” determination requires the
reviewing court, with significant deference to the magistrate’s
determination, to focus on whether reasonable inferences drawn from
the totality of the evidence support the determination of probable
cause. Houser v. State, 678 N.E.2d 95, 99 (Ind. 1997). A “reviewing
court” for these purposes includes both the trial court ruling on a

motion to suppress and an appellate court reviewing that decision. Id.
At 98. In this review, we consider only the evidence presented to the
issuing magistrate and not post hoc justifications for the search.
Query, 745 N.E.2d at 771.

When a probable cause affidavit is based on hearsay, “the
affidavit must either: (1) contain reliable information establishing the
credibility of the source and of each of the declarants of the hearsay
and establishing that there is a factual basis for the information
furnished; or (2) contain information that established that the totality
of the circumstances corroborates the hearsay.” Ind. Code § 35-33-5-
2(b) (1998) “[T]}he hearsay ‘must exhibit some hallmarks of
reliability.” Leicht vy. State, 798 N.E.2d 204, 207 (Ind. Ct. App.
2003), trans. Denied (quoting Jaggers vy. State, 687 N.E.2d 180, 182
(Ind. 1997))

Our courts have observed that there are tow categories of
informants: Professional informants and cooperative citizens.
Clifford v. State, 474 N.E.2d 963, 969 (Ind. 1985). The test for

determining the reliability of each group of informant is different.’

Id, Cooperative citizens who act as informants
“include victims of crime or persons who personally witness
a crime. These individuals generally come forward with
information out of the spirit of good citizenship and the desire
to assist law enforcement officials in solving crime. They are
usually one-time informants and no basis exists from prior
dealings to determine their reliability. Further, information of
this type usually goes to past completed crimes rather than
future or continuing crimes.
Some jurisdictions have therefore held that informants of this
type are to be considered reliable for the purpose of
determining probable cause unless incriminating
circumstances exist which cast suspicion upon the informant’s
reliability.”
Id. (quoting Pawloski v. State, 269 Ind. 350, 354, 380 N.E.2d 1230,
1232-33 (1978)). See also Frasier v. State, 794 N.E.2d 449, 457 (Ind.
Ct. App. 2003) (“Information gleaned from cooperative citizens who
are either eyewitnesses or victims of a crime may be relied upon in
determining whether probable cause exits for a search where there are
no circumstances which call the informant’s motives into question.”).
However, “the requirement for corroboration is not totally eliminated.
The amount of evidence necessary to satisfy the probable cause test is
largely determined on a case-by-base basis.” Pawlaski, 269 Ind. At
355, 380 N.E.2d at 1233.

* The reliability of hearsay from a confidential informant can be established in a
number of ways, including where: (1) the informant has given correct
information in the past, (2) independent police investigation corroborates the
informant’s statements, (3) some basis for the informant’s knowledge is
demonstrated, or (4) the informant predicts conduct or activities by the suspect
that are not ordinarily easily predicted. Jaggers v. State, 687 N.E.2d 180, 181
(Ind. 1997) (citation omitted)

In this case, C.R. falls into the category of citizen informants
and there are no incriminating circumstances which cast suspicion
upon her reliability. C.R. voluntarily told her school counselor that

there was marijuana on Richard’s property.’ Moreover, her young

age does not render her statements unreliable. Although a child under
the age of ten was formerly presumed to be incompetent, the statute
setting forth that presumption was repealed in 1990. The applicable
rule is now found in Indiana Evidence Rule 601, which provides,
“le}very

person is competent to be a witness except as otherwise provided in

these rules or by act of the Indiana General Assembly.” Ind.
Evidence Rule 601 (2004).

Rule 601’s “failure to presumptively exclude children does
not prohibit special inquiry into their competency prior to
testifying when the issue is raised by defendant.” The rule
“read in conjunction with the repeal of the subdivision
regarding children in the witness competency statute,
abandoned the previous arbitrary lines drawn regarding age,
in favor of the rule which assumes competency until
otherwise demonstrated cy the opponent of the testimony.”
Aldridge v. State, 779 N.E.2d 607, 609 (Ind. Ct. App. 2002), trans.
Denied (Quoting Burrell v. State, 701 N.E.2d 582, 585 (Ind. Ct. App.

1998)).

When a child is called to testify at trial, the trial court has the
discretion to determine if a child witness is competent based on the
court’s observation of the child’s demeanor and responses to A
child’s competency to testify at trial is established by demonstrating
that he or she (1) understands the difference between telling a lie and
the questions posed by counsel and the court. Haycraft v. State, 760
N.E.2d 203, 209 (Ind. Ct. App. 2001), trans. Denied (citing Newsome

’ That Richard and C.R.’s mother were involved in a contentious paternity
dispute over C.R.’s sibling is not an incriminating circumstance which casts

suspicion on C.R.’s reliability or calls C.R.’s motives into question.

v. State, 686 N.E.2d868, 873 (Ind. Ct. App. 1997)). telling the truth,
(2) knows he or she is under a compulsion to tell the truth, and (3)
knows what a true statement actually is. Harrington v. State, 755
N.E.2d 1176, 1180 (Ind. Ct. App. 2001) (citing Newsome, 686
N.E.2d at 872).

However, establishing a child’s competency to testify at trial utilizing

those three factors is required for testimony under the “beyond a
reasonable doubt” standard. The issuing judge or magistrate applies a
lower standard to determine whether probable cause to search exists:
“Whether there is a fair probability that contraband or evidence of a
crime will be found in a particular place.” See Query, 745 N.E.2d at
771 (emphasis added). Moreover, probable cause “may be
established by evidence that would not be admissible at trial.”
Lamagna vy. State, 776 N.E.2d 995, 958 (Ind. Ct. App. 2002).
Therefore, although a determination of a child’s competency utilizing
the test set forth above would assist in our review of probable cause
cases involving child informants, we will not require law enforcement

officers to make such a specific inquiry into a child’s competency for

the purposes of establishing probable cause to issue a search warrant.
Finally, although we have determined that C.R.’s age does not
render her statements unreliable and that there are no incriminating
circumstances that cast suspicion upon C.R.’s reliability, we must sill
consider whether the reasonable inferences drawn from the totality of
the evidence support the determination of probable cause. Officer
Campbell’s affidavit reveals that after voluntarily making a statement
to her school counselor, C.R. told Officer Campbell that she
personally observed what she believed to be marijuana in the bam
where she keeps her rabbits. She then stated that several plants of
what she believed to be marijuana were located under blue tarps near
her rabbit cages. C.R. also told Officer Campbell, “there is a blue tub
that contains camouflage bags with the same type of plant material.”
Appellant’s App. P. 12. C.R. stated that there is marijuana located in

the upper area of a second barn and that she gained access to that area
by climbing a ladder. In addition, C.R. stated that there is always
marijuana in a white case in a drawer near the stove in the house. She
also described a “hidden room” in the basement near the furnace
room where she had seen marijuana plants growing in the past. Id.

Finally, C.R. stated that she knows what marijuana is because she has

been around it before.“ Appellant’s App. P. 11

We conclude that C.R.’s personal observation of the
marijuana, the specificity of her statements with regard to the location
of the marijuana, and her statement that she knew the appearance of
marijuana from being “around it before” formed a substantial basis
upon which the issuing magistrate could determine that there was a
fair probability that evidence of possession of maryuana would be
found in Richard's barns and residence. Accordingly, we conclude
that the search warrant was supported by probable cause, and
therefore, the trial court acted within its discretion when it admitted

the evidence seized during the execution of the search warrant

* The facts of this case are similar to those in State y. Yeomans, 10 S.W.3d 293,
295 (Tenn. Crim. App. 1999), in which a twelve-year-old juvenile informed law
enforcement officials that “marijuana could be found in a black pouch under the
couch of the defendants[‘} home.” She also stated that she had seen the
defendant smoking marijuana and storing marijuana throughout the residence
Id. Finally, the twelve-year-old explained that she knew what maryuana looked
and smelled like from berg around i before. Id. Concluding that the affidavit
was sufficient to establish probable cause, the Tennessee court stated:
[T)he juvenile stated that she was familiar with the appearance and smell of
marijuana. Unfortunately, it is not unreasonable to conclude that a twelve-
year-old would be familiar with marijuana.... Even though the age of the
informant is certainly relevant, the mere fact that the citizen was a juvenile,

age 12, does not preclude a finding of reliability

Affirmed

DARDEN, J., and FRIEDLANDER, J., concur ld. At 296

While we also conclude that C.R.’s age does not preclude a finding of

reliability because is not inconceivable that an eight-year-old would know
what marijuana looks like, had Officer Cambell ased C.R. to describe that
appearance of marijuana, this would be an easier case to resolve. See ¢.2. State
v. Warroll, 22 P3d 182. 183. 185 (mont. 2001) (citing Stave v. Warroll, 976 P.2d
968, 971 (Mont 1999) (An eleven-year-old’s statements that he personally
observed marijuana growing on the defendant's property, that he know what
marijuana looked like from seeing a plaint at his aunt’s house and pictures on
cigarette lighters, and his description of the difference between marijuana and
tomato plants formed a substantial basis for concluding that probable cause

supported the issuance of the search warrant.))

CLERK
SUPREME COURT, COURT OF APPEALS, AND TAX
COURT
STATE OF INDIANA
217 STAE HOUSE, INDIANAPOLIS, IN 46204
317-232-1930 * FAX 317-232-8365

David C. Lewis
Clerk

DALE ALLEN 25A05-0405-CR-00243

Lower Court Number:
5655 BROADWAY 25C010310FC73
MERRILLVILLE, IN 46410

RICHARD, CARL -V- STATE OF INDIANA

You are hereby notified that the SUPREME COURT has on this day
3/31/05

THIS MATTER HAS COME BEFORE THE INDIANA
SUPREME COURT ON A PETITION TO TRANSER
JURISDICTION FOLLOWING THE ISSUANCE OF A
DECISION BY THE COURT OF APPEALS. THE PETITION
WAS FILED PURSUANT TO APPELLATE RULE 57. THE
COURT HAS REVIEWED THAT DECISION OF THE COURT
OF APPEALS. ANY RECORD ON APPEAL THAT WAS
SUBMITTED HAS BEEN MADE AVAILABLE TO THE
COURT FOR REVIEW, ALONG WITH ANY AND ALL
BRIEFS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN FILED IN THE COURT OF
APPEALS AND ALL THE MATERIALS FILED IN
CONNECTIOON WITH THE REQUEST TO TRANSFER
JURISDICTION. EACH PARTICIPATING MEMBER OF THE
COURT HAS VOTED ON THE PETITION. EACH
PARTICIPATING MEMBER HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY

TO VOICE THAT JUSTICE’S VIEW ON THE CASE IN
CONFERENCE WITH THE OTHER JUSTICES

BEING DULY ADVISED, THE COURT NOW DENIES
THE APPELLANT'S PETITION TO TRANSFER OF
JURDICTION

RANDALL T. SHEPART, CHIEF JUSTICE

ALL JUSTICES CONCUR, EXCEPT FOR SULLIVAN AND
RUCKER, J.J. WHO VOTE TO GRANT TRANSFER. KM

WITNESS my name and the seal of said Court
This 14TH day of JANUARY, 2005

Clerk, Supreme Court, Court of

Appeals and Tax Count

2004 14:13:56

CHRONOLOGICAL CASE SUMMARY
CRIMINAL DOCKET, FULTON CIRCUIT COURT

POR CAUSE NO: 25C01-0310-FC-00073
RICHARD, CARL A
THE HONORABLE DOUGLAS B MORTON
DATE FILED 10/17/2003
ORIG PILE DT: 10/17/2003

2920-25 RICHARD A BROWN
815 MAIN ST - ROOM 30)
P © BOK 237
ROCHESTER IN 46975
574-223-4333

252525-25 PROBATION OFFICER
COURTHOUSE
ROCHESTER IN 46975

10485-64 DAL ALLAN
5655 BROADWAY
MERRILLVILLE IN 46410
219-981-3998

23884 -64

MERRILLVILLE IN 46410
219-981-3998

10/17/2003 Notice:

Richard A. Brown files Appearance, information for Dealing in
Marijuana-Count I; Information for Dealing in Marijuana-Count II;

Mon Jun 21 2004 14:13:56

CHRONOLOGICAL CASE SUMMARY
CRIMINAL DOCKET, FULTON CIRCUIT COURT

FOR CAUSE NO: 25C01-0310-PC-00073
RICHARD, CARL A
THE HONORABLE DOUGLAS B MORTON
ACTION DATE FILED: 10/17/2003
ORIG FILZ DT: 10/17/2003

Information for Battery Resulting in Injury to a Law Enforcement
Officer-Count III and Information for Resisting Law Enforcement -Count IV
and Motion to Revoke Bail and also presente Probable Cause Affidavit. It
is noted that an Order was signed for probable cause on October 14, 2003,
but made of record this date.

10/20/2003 Notice: M RJO: Y Vol: 28 By: 142
Initial hearing held ani the Court makes ite Order on Initial Hearing and
issues Discovery Order with pre-trial conference scheduled for November
24, 2003 at 11:00 a.m. and trial date of Pebruary 25, 2004 at 8:30 a.m
(Copy R.Brown and Hirschauer) .

SKE 10-22-03

10/22/2003 Notice: M
Cash and Surety Bond filed

10/28/2003 Wotice: M RIO: WN
Dale Allen files Appearance and Defendant's Motion to Produce Evidence.

10/29/2003 Wotice: M RJO: ¥ Vol: 28 Py: 149

Court enters Order upon defendant's Motion for Discovery.
State files Record of Discovery.

10/30/2003 WNotice: M RO: NW

Defendant files Motion to Set Bail. Pre-trial set for November 24. 2003
at 11:00 a.m.

This cause now scheduled for hearing upon defendant's Motion to be Let for
Bail and State's Motion to Revoke Bail for 1:00 p.m., October 31, 2003.
(Copy R.Brown ard Dale Allen).

SKB 10-30-03

10/31/2003 Notice: M RO: N

Hearing held and evidence and argument presented concerning bail issues.
Cause taken under advisement .

11/03/2003 Notice: M RJO: Y¥ Vol: 28 Pg: 151

The Court makes ite Order upon bail issues. (copy entry and order to
R.Brown, Allen & Probation)
SKE 11-3-03

11/12/2003 Notice:

Mon Jun 2) 2004 14.13:56

CHRONOLOGICAL CASE SUMMARY
CRIMINAL DOCKET, FULTON CIRCUIT COURT

POR CAUSE NO: 25C01-0310-FC-00073
RICHARD, CARL A
THE HONORABLE DOUGLAS B MORTON
ACTION: DATE FILED: 10/17/2003
ORIG PILE OT: 10/17/2003

Recognizance Bond filed. (copy attorneys) SKE 11-21-03
11/21/2003 Notice: M RJO: WN
Court receives fax of Defendants Petition to Modify Bond Order.
11/24/2003 Notice: M RJO: WN

Matthew D. Barrett files Appearance for defendant. It is noted this was ma
iled by certified mail with of November 20, 2003.

Defendant files original Petition to Modify Bond Order.

Defendant appears in person and by counsel. By agreement of the parties r
pretrial conference is reset to 1-12-04 at 11:00 a.m.

11/24/2003 WNotice: M BJO: Y¥ Vol: 28 Py: 164

The Court makes ites Order rescheduling cause to Jarwary 12, 2004 at 11:00
a.m. for pre-trial and modifying bail conditions. (copy entry and order
to R. Brown, Allen and Probation).

SKE 11-25-03

12/26/2003 Notice: A RJO: WN

Defendants file Defendants’ Motion to Suppress Bvidence; Defendants’
Memorandum of Law in Support of Defendants’ Motion to Suppress Evidence
Defendants’ Table of Contents to Their Memorandum of Law In Support of
Defendants’ Motion to Suppress Evidence; Notice of Hearing to Suppress
Bvidence and Deferclants' Exhibits A-E.

It is noted this was mailed by certified mail with postmark of 12-22-03.

01/08/2004 Notice: M RJO: ¥ Vol: 29 Pg: 4

Court enters Notice of Hearing to Suppress Bvidence. Hearing set for
February 10, 2004 at 2:00 p.m. (copy attorneys) SKE 1-12-04

01/12/2004 Notice: M RO: N

Parties appear by counse]. cause now set for hearing on defendant's

motion to suppress on 2-10-04 at 2:00 p.m. (Copy R.Brown and Allen).
SKB 1-12-04

02/09/2004 Notice: M RJO: N

State's Memorandum In Opposition To Defendant's Motion To Suppress filed.
02/10/2004 Notice: M RJO: WN

Motion to Suppress hearing held in conjunction with 25C01-0310-PC-00074.
Issues presented and cause taken under advisement with any further

0100093

Mon Jari 21 2004 14:13:56

CHRONOLOGICAL CASE SUMMARY
CRIMINAL DOCKET, PULTON CIRCUIT COURT

POR CAUSE MD: 25C01-0310-FC. 00073
RICHARD, CARL A
THE WONDRABLE DOUGLAS 8 MORTON
ACTION DATE PILED 10/17/2003
ORIG FILE OT: 10/17/2003

response by counsel to be submitted not later than February 1) at noon
(Copy &. Brown and Allen)
SxR 2-10-04

02/11/2004 Notice: # RX: WwW

The Quurt makes 1. Order concerning trial date, Motion to Suppress
response date, and combining causes for trial. (Copy entry and order to
R Brown and Allen)

SR 2-13-04

02/13/2004 Notice: ™ RO:

Defermiant files Defendant's Verified Motion for Extension of Time to Pile
a Reply to State's Memorandes in Opposition to Defendant's Motion to
Suppress & Jury Trial Contimeance. It is noted thie was received by Express
Mail with date of Pebruary 12, 2004. (copy Allen, 8. Grown and Probation)
SXB 2-13-04

02/18/2004 Notice: M RO: ¥ Vol: 29 Py: 27
Court enters Order. Jury trial consolidated with 250D1-0310-PC-00074 and
eet for jury trial on April 6, 2004 at 6:30 a.m. (copy Allen, R. Bram and
Probation) SKB 2-24-04

02/19/2004 Motice: m RO:
Deferdants file Defemdiants’' Reply in Opposition to State's Memorandum in
Opposition to Defendants’ Motion to Suppress and Defendants’ Table of
Contents to Their Reply in Opposition to State's Memorandum in Opposition

to Defendants’ Motion to Suppress. It ie noted thie was mailed by Boress
Mail with date of 2-18-04

02/20/2004 Wotice: M Ae: 8
State files State's Reply Memorarchn.

02/23/2004 Notice: ™ BJO: WwW

Defendante file Defendants’ Surreply to State's Reply Memorandem. It is
noted thie was received certified eail with a postmark of Pebruary 20,
2004. (copy R. Brown, Allen and Probation) SKE 2-24-04

02/25/2004 Wotice: 4 RIO: Y Vol: 29 Po: 33

Court enters Order. Motion to Suppress is Denied. (copy R. Brown,
Probation and Allen) SKE }-1-04

03/01/2004 Notice: A RIO N

CHRONOLOGICAL CASE SUMMARY
RIMINAL DOCKET, PULTON CIROUIT COURT

POR CAUSE NO: 25C01]1 -0310-PC-00073
RICHARD, CARL A
THE HONORABLE DOUGLAS B “ORTON
DATE FILED: 10/17/2003
ORIG FILE DT: 10/17/2003

Defendant, by counsel, file Defendants’ Motion for Certification of Appeal
of Interlocutory Order and Stay of Proceed’ ngs Pending Appeal. It is
noted this was received by certified mail with postmark of Pebruary 27,
2004

03/03/2004 Notice: HM RIO: Y¥ Vol: 29 Po:

Court enters Order denying Motion for Certification. {copy attorneys) SKE
3-5-04

03/05/2004 Notice: ¥ RJO
State files Motion to Revoke Bail
Court enters Order granting Motion to Revoke Bail (copy R. Brown, Probati
on and Allen) SKE 3-804

03/10/2004 Notice: # RO: WwW

Attorney Dale Allen and Matthew Barrett enter their appearance on behalf
of defendant. Defendant, by coumel, files Defendant's Motion in

~ + to the State's Motion to Revoke Bail. Defendant, by counsel,
pleads not guilty to all charges, requests discovery, waives initial
hearing and reserves right to trial by jury. (Copy Allen ami R. Brow)
SKE 3-19-04

03/23/2004 Wotice: M RJO: WN

Deferxiant files Defendant's Motion in Limine, Defendant's Motion to

Separate Trial Witnesses ani Defendant's Answer to Court's Order for
Di scovery

03/24/2004 Notice; RJO: Y Vol: 29 Py:

The Court makes its Order for hearing on Motion in Limine for April 5,

2004 at 10:30 a.m. (Copy entry and order to R.Browm, Allen and Leon)
SKE 3-26-04

04/01/2004 Notice: M RO: Y

Defendant, by counsel, hereby waives defendant's right to trial by jury
relative to Count I, Dealing in Marijuana and Count II, Dealing in
Marijuana, both class “C* felony offenses.

Defendant further informs thie Court that the State of Indiana has
proffered a plea agreement, conjingent of course, upon this Court's
approval, relative to Counts II] & IV of this cause and the parties shal!
present said plea agreement, in writing, to thie Court on Tuesday, April
6, 2004 at 1:30 a.m. EST

Defendant further informs this Court that the parties are prepared to

000005

Mon Jun 277 2004 14:13:56

CHRONOLOGICAL CASE SUMMARY
CRIMINAL DOCKET, FULTON CIRCUIT COURT

POR CAUSE NO: 25C01-0310-FC-00073
RICHARD, CARL A
THB HONORABLE DOUGLAS 8B MORTON
ACTION DATE PILED: 10/17/2003
ORIG FILE DT: 10/17/2003

present evidence and argument to the benefit on Counts I & IT.
Court enters Order leaving Motion in Limine set for April 5, 2004 at 10:30
a.m. (copy attorneys) SKE 4-2-04

04/02/2004 Notice: M RO: Y

State files Waiver of Jury Trial
Court entere Order withdrawing jury call and setting trial to Court on
Tuesday, April 6, 2004 at 1:30 p.m. {copy attorneys) SKR 4-2-04

04/05/2004 Wotice: M RIO: WN

By agreement of the parties, hearing on Motion in Limine is reset for
4-6-04 at 1:30 p.m. (Copy R.Brow and Allen)
SKE 4-5-04

04/06/2004 Notice: M RJO: Y

At hour appointed for trial, the parties submit proposed Plea Agreement as
to Count III that anticipates dismissal of Count IV, leaving Count I and
II for trial. Change of plea hearing held upon Count III and defendant
gubmits checklist of rights. The Court makes its Order on Misdemeanor
Change of Plea as to Count III. Trial to the Court held and the Cowt
makes its findings of quilt upon both Count I and Count II all by written
Order. Sentencing hearing scheduled for 9:00 a.m., April 26, 2004. (Copy
entry and orders to R.Brown, Allen, and Probation).

SKE 4-86-04

04/21/2004 Notice: M
Presentence Investigation Report filed.

04/28/2004 Notice: M PISPOSED: BT RJO: Y
Sentencing hearing held. Defendant by counsel supplements pre-sentence
report with letters and affidavits which the Court deems added to the
Pre-Sentence Report . Upon sentencing hearing, the Court makes its

Sentencing Order. (Copy entry and order to R.Browm, Allen, ard Sheriff).
SKE 4-30-04

04/30/2004 Notice: M RJO: WN

Defendant files Notice of Appeal from Trial Court. It is noted this was
mailed by certified mail with a postmark of April 29, 2004. (copy
attorneys) SKE 5-3-04

06/07/2004 Notice: M RJO: W

Court Report files Notice of Filing of Transcript

000006

Mon Jun 21 2004

CHRONOLOGICAL CASE SUMMARY
CRIMINAL OOCKET, FULTON CIRCUIT COURT

POR CAUGE NY: 25001 -0310-PC-00073
RICHARD, CARL A
THE HONORABLE DOUGLAS 8 MORTON
DATE PILED 10/17/2003
ORIG PLIZ OT: 10/17/2003

06/10/2004 Notice: # RO N

Clerk files Notice of Completion of Clerk's Record with Court of Appeals
(copy R. Brown and Allen) TL? 6-10-04

06/21/2004 Notice: # RO:

Defendant, by Commel, files Request for Copy Of Appellate Record and
Transcript. Sent Transcript thie date (copy R. Brown amd Allen) Ti?
6-21-04

STATE OF INDIANA }
)SS
COUNTY OF FULTON )

IN THE FULTON CIRCUIT CUURT

CAUSE NO. 25C01-4310-Fc. 73

FILED

OCT 17 2003

ee fs

INFORMATION FOR DEALING IN MARLJUANA
(C- FELONY)

Matthew Campbell beamg first duty sworn upon his oath says that

On or about October 13* 2003 in Fulton County, State of Indiana, Carl A. Richard
Aid tmowng}y pessess manyuana with the intent to deliver w an amount greater than
tend | 0) pounds

All of wtuch is Contrary to the form of the statute in such cases made and

provided ,to wit: LC. 3$-48-4-10(a\(2\Xc) and (>)(2),and against the peace and dignity
of the State of Indiana.

COUNT

INFORMATION FOR DEALING IN MARIJUANA
(C- FELONY)

Kuemew Campbell, being first duly sworn upon his vath says that

On ox abn, ‘Oxtober 13* 2003 in Fulton County, State of Indiana, Cart A. Richard,
did knewing*) anafacture manyuane in an amount greater than tea( 10) pounds

All of whuch 1s Cootrary to the form of the statute un such cases made and

provided to wit: LC. 35-48-4-10(a1) and (b)(2), and against the peace and dignity of
the State of Indiana

000008

FILED

COUNT Ut OCT 17 2003

INFORMATION FOR BATTERY A COURT

INJURY TO A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER
( D- FELONY)

Matthew Campbell, being first duly sworn upon his oath says that:

On or about October 14* 2005 in Fulton County, State of Indiana, Cari A. Richard
did knowingly touch Matthew Campbell, a Law Enforcement Officer, in a rade,
imsolent or angry manner resulung in injury, to wit pain , and while said Officer was
engaged in the execution of bis Official duties

All of which is Contrary to the form of the statute in such cases made and

provided ,to wit: LC. 35-42-2-1(2\2(A) and against the peace and dignity of the
State of indiana

COUNT IV

INFORMATION FOR RESISTING LAW ENFORCEMENT
( A- MISDEMEANOR)

Matthew Campbell, being first duly sworn upon his oath says that:

On of about October 14* 2003 in Fulton County, State of Indiana, Carl A. Richard
did knowing)y resist, obstruct or interfere with the authorized service or execution of
couminal process, to-wit: the execution of an arrest warrant by Matthew Campbell, a
Law Enforcement Officer.

All of which is Contrary to the form of the statute in such cases made and

provided ,to wit: LC. 35-43-3-3(2)(A),and against the peace and dignity of the State
of lodiana.

rl
Subscribed and sworn to before me approved by me this! ? day of CALL 2003

Richard A. Brown -
Prosecuting Attorney

41* Judicial Circuit

Fulton County, Indiana

STATE OF INDIANA ) IN THE FULTON SUPEIOR COURT
) S&S:
COUNTY OF FULTON ) CAUSE NO. 275CDI- +4

AFFIDAVIT FOR SEARCH WARRANT

Matt Campbell, being first duly swom, upon his oath says the following:
1. That he 6s a law enforcement officer with Rochester (ity Police.

That he believes and has good cause to believe that certain
things, namely marquana and items of contraband are concealed in or
upon the following described property in Fulton County, Indiana:

2183 W SOON
Rochester, IN 46975

Including House and Barns and Outbutideags

Said Items constitute evidence of the commission of the offense of
Possession of Marijuana and Possession of Paraphemallia.

Affiart befieves there is probable Cause to search based upon the
folowing facts.

Patty Keim (Riddle School Counselor) contacted me on today's date. She
stated that she wes approached by a student by the name of Callie R.
Richard and told her she had bean in one her barns on Friday, October 10
after school. While in the barn she observed what she believed was
marijuana. | advised Patty | woukd come to the school to speak with the
student

At approximatety 1.00PM | went to Riddle ementary School to speak
with Callie, Mrs. Keim, and Mrs. Johnson (School Principal). During the
interview Cale again stated she had been in the barn on Friday and found
what she believed was marijuana She stated she inows what fi
because she has been around & before. Callie stated she was in the barn
jus. to the east of her house with a U-shaped drive. She houses rabbits in
thts barn. She stated near her rabbit cages there are blue tarps and

0001!

under the tarps is located several plants drying. She also stated there is a
blue tub that contains camouflage bags with the same type of plant
material. Cathe then dated that in the bam near thts same bam was an
upper area she gained access to by Gimbing a ladder. In this area she
located more of the same type of plants drying.

| asked Cathe ¢ they had any marijuana in the house. She stated they
always had marijuana in the drawer near the stove. She stated (hey kept
Rt in a white case. She then spoke of a hiiden room in the basement area
near the furnace room. She stated this room had bi-fold doors and then
remove items from in front of the panel and then go into the dim mom.
She stated she had been in the room before when there were plants
growing. Se 6s not aware if there are any plants in there af ths time.

Wherefore affiant requests the Court to issue a search warrant directing the search for

lbh

and seaure of the above-described property.

| hereby affirm under penalties of perjury that the foregoing affidavit is due.

0 (uphill

Cc

State of indiana ) in The Fulton Owocesw Coun
) Ss

County of Fultoa ) Cause No 2shp1. ‘MC.

SEARCH WARRANT
To Any Indiana Law Enforcement Officer

WHEREAS an affidavit has been filed with me that establrshes probable cause, you are
therefore aathonzed and ordered, in the name of the State of lodiana, with any necessary
and proper assistance, to enter into or upon the following described property, to-wit

PNTZW SOON Rechecter Find Sen Covet Trdronn
Kel wds .

aad to there diligently search for the following described property

acs) seece 2ecepbercalsa BoA oNhac siisga\ Ar ny

_SecYrabasd.

You are further ordered to seaze such property, or any part thereof, found on such search

Duet thin _\3 “day of Oc rhs, wes « / SE e.

we
RETURN ON WARRANT
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wh te Berrilly - 2 Plast gree leat ¢ Seales
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Arekia Pipe

000013

ROCHESTER CITY POLICE
PROPERTY RECORD AND RECEIPT

O lnwe stagating Olfice, f 04 (leg a7 ceo 10-03-V 29

Subeetting Otter
Date 6 Time 7 t ya BS

TW Sealed? See

- —— — : ——— a a --- ==: —-

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ROCHESTER CITY POLICE
PROPERTY RECORD AND RECEIPT

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ORIGINAL

STATE OF INDIANA } iN THE FULTON CIRCUIT COURT
} SS:
COUNTY OF FULTON } 2003 TERM

STATE OF INDIANA

CAUSE NUMBER
25C01-0310-FC-00073

The deposition upon oral examination of
Corporal Marty A. CAMPBELL,

@ witness produced and sworn before me, Gad Maim Armstrong, Notary
Public for the State of inciana, on Friday, December 5, 2003. m the Fulton
County Courthouse, Fulton County Prosecutor's Office, 815 Main Sveet,
Rochester, indiana, 46975, pursuant to the indiana Rules of Trial Procedure
with written notice by the parties as to tame, place and date Ths depos#tion
was taken on behalf of the Defendant in the above captioned cause.

GAIL MALM ARMSTRONG
Court REPORTER
7305 Sourm, Country Roan 55D

LOGANSPORT, INDIANA 4694 001
574/652-2200 Fax o 574869

CO 600 620-43'3

SEP Or TSRs &27ER 4 wr OS

oe 2

Appearances
Ow Benair oF THE STATE OF INDIANA —

RICHARD A. BROWN, ESQUIRE
Prosecuting Attorney for Fulton County ~
Fulton County Courthouse

815 Main Street

Rochester, IN 46975

On Benaur OF Tee Derenpant —
MATTHEW D. BARRETT, ESQUIRE
Aven Law Offices

701 E. Lincolnway
Valparaiso, IN 46383

Contents of Transcript

Owect Examination by Matthew D. Barrett

Defendant's Deposition Exhibh #A
Affidavit for Search Warrant of Corporal Matt A. Campbell

Defendant's Deposition Exhibit #8
Search Warrant dated 10/13/03

Defendant's Deposition Exhibh #C
incident Reoort #203649, Case #10-03-439
by Corpo: « Matt A. Campbell dated

Reporter's Certificate

index of Objections

By Richard A. Brown -

object to the question, “Can you tell me the definition
of probable cause?"

19, 35

34

38

76

12

iD100017

Corporal Mett A. Campbell, the witness here, having been

fwsi duly sworn to testely to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

was examined and tested as follows
THE REPORTER: Raise your right hand please
{THE DEPONENT COMPLIED.|
THE REPORTER: Thank you. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to grve im this cause will be the truth. the whole truth
and nothing but the truth, ©o help you God?
THE DEPONENT. Yes.
THE REPORTER: Thank you
DIRECT EXAMINATION
QUESTIONS BY MATTHEW D. BARRETT: 2:10 p.m.
Q Okay, my name is Matthew Barrett. I'm one of Cari Richard's attorneys in
thus matter. Before we begun, I'd just bike to go over some basic ground rules
with you concerning thys dooosition. First, please try to speak clearly and
avoid any nonverbal responses like the shaking your head. It's sust difficult
for the Court Reporter to get afl that down.
Second, if you would just wait till I'm fished with my question, then

0 allow you to enswer. Again, a lot of times at's like 8 conversation and we

PEP OFTEPS O2°ER OPS CO 890 4864)')

get to talking over each other and it's diffscult for her to get that down, and

finally end 1 you don't understand one of my questions or if you'd like me

*7Ooe~ > mm

to rephrase it or if you think it's too vague, just ask me to do so and I'd be |

glad to hopefully do # in a more understandable form
if you don’t ask me to clarify any of my questions today, then 'm

going to assume thet you understand them and that you're making an

(000018

1 appropriate response. Do you understand all that?
24 A Yes
3§ Q Okay, please state your full legal name for the record
44 A Matt Allen Canpbell.
5 | Q What's your residential address?
6 MR. BROWN: | don’t think that’s necessary, is it?
7 | CONTINUATION OF DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MATTHEW D. BARRETT:
8 | Q What's your business address?
9 A Three-tweive Main Sweet, Rochester, indiana.
10 | O Okay, are you married?
11 A Yes.
12 | Q Do you have any children?
13} A Yes

14] Q How many children do you heave?

: 15) A Three.

16 | Q What's your date of bith?

: 17 | A November 8th, 1969.

; 18 | Q Yow ever given a deposition before?

: 195 A Yes.

, 20 | GQ How many times?

; 21} A Oh, I don’t, ! don’t have a clue.

22 ! Q Okay, what was the substance of the, the general subject matter that you
£

23 | were giving depositions for?
24 A Most of them were narcotics-related.

25 |} QO Okay, are you presently under the influence of any drugs of alcohol today?

| | 00019

ser ORTERS PAPER 6 FO CO 800-626-6313

No.

Have you ever suffered from any mental disease, deflect, or disorder?
No.

Have you ever consumed any types of illegal drugs?

No.

Have you ever had any restraining order, order filed against you?
No.

Where did you ge to high school at?

Pioneer High School.

Did you graduate?

Yes.

What year did you graduate?

Nineteen eighty-eight.

Did you go to college?

Yes.

What was your major?

Criminology.

What year did you graduate?

Nineteen-ninety .

Currently a law enforcement officer?

Yes.

What agency are you employed with?

Rochester City Police
What's your rank?

Corporal.

“EPORTERS PAPER & MFO. CO. 800-626-6313

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Have you ever held any other types of ranks at the Department?
Patrolman

What's the full name and rank of your supervisor?

lmenediate supervisor, | guess, would be Robert R. Daugherty. He’s a
Sergeant

Okay, did you attend the Police Academy, | assume

Yes

When did you attend the Acaderny?

Nineteen ninety three.

Where at?

Pardon?

Where at?

Plainhetd

indiana?

Yes.

Okay, what year did you graduate?

The Academy?

Yes.

Nineteen ninety-thvee.

You work anywhere when you attended the Academy?

Akron Police Department.

I'm going to ask you a series of quesiions regarding your employment
history, and I'd just like to define the term employment so when | use #
we re both on the same page. Al any time when | say the term employment,

you're to assume thet I'm talking about full-time or part-time. The

000021

REPORTERS PAPER A MIG CO 800-6296-63'3

employment also means whether of not your jobs were, you were an

employee or like an independent contractor. Since your graduation from the .

Academy can you tell me the names of all law enforcement departments or |

agencies that you have been employed with?

| beleve Akron obviously and | think | worked part-tume in Kewanna and then
| believe, | beheve Rochester's the only other place.

Have you ever been suspended or disciplined in any of these De partments?
Yes.

Which ones?

Rochester.

What were you suspended for or disciplined at Rochester?

Conduct unbecoming, | believe, is what it was for.

When was this?

| believe the incident occurred in December of last year. |, | beleve my
suspension was actually in, might have been January or possibly February.
I'm not sure.

Two thousan. wo?

Which?

Either ov.

The, the incident would have occurred in 2002

Can you tell me about the incident?

The, the suspension was actually for my outburst regarding the actions of
another officer that | didn't agree with.

What was the name of the other officer?

Jun Hubbard at the time

WR REPORTERS PAPER &MFO CO. 600-676-6913

What was his rank?

He's a Deputy

Okay, what was the nature of your suspension?

| guess | don’t understand the nature. |, | was off for a day.
Yeah, you're off for a day?

Yes.

Did you get paid?

No, it was, it was--our suspensions are unpaid.

Were you ever disciplined for any other matter?

| believe |, | got a letter, a written warning at one ume.
Who was that from?

Who was it from?

What Department?

Rochester.

What was that for?

| can’t remember what the exact term was for. it, i might have also been
conduct unbecoming. I’m not sure.

When was that? Do you recall?

1 don’t recall that one. I’m going to say, I'm going to say probably about ‘96

but I'm not sure.

Any other incidents of discx*ne?

No.

Have you ever had any type of private empicyment since your graduation
from the Academy?

1, 1 did work part-tirse as a Construction worker for a while off and on, |!

00.0023

(BPORTERS PAPER O MFA CO 000-626-6319

FORM C-100 - 148

quess

Where was that at?

Actually | worked for Gates Construction who used to live in, when | lived
in Royal Center, Charlie Gates.

Gates?

Gates, G-a-t-e-s, yes.

Okay.

Then | worked for Danny Melton, Melton and Sons Construction.

Where are they from?

Rochester and then actually | think |, | actually got paid from Dirkus
Construction a few times too.

Where’s Dirkus?

In Rochester.

Okay, you still work there today?

No, it’s kind of a on-again/off-again. It’s when they need help sometimes I'll
help and, you know, it, it just—it’s not that | was either terminated or
anything else, just | guess not enough time on my part and they didn’t need

enough help on their part sometimes.

Okay, do you take continuing law enforcement education classes? -

Yes.

How often?

Every year.

Where do you take ther at?

Just | guess it depends on what class I'm taking where it’s at. Sometimes

I'll go to the Academy. Sometimes |’fl go to the indianapolis — what they call

(0.00024

|
:
!
,

“vem. eo

24

25

>

(2)

the Public Agency Tramung Councd. Sometimes |'8 go to other Departments |
lve been to other states. Just, | guess @ just depends on where where |
takes me - Fort Wayne

Okay, when you say every year, how often throughout the year do you take
them?

Oh, we, we have a minemum of sixteen hours. I'm, I'm usually well, well in
the eighty hours to a hundred hours for traming

What's the subjects that have been covered in the past, subject matter of
your education classes?

I've been to sniper school I've been to undercover narcotics school. I've
been to hostage rescue, MP5 operator —|'m trying to think — less lethal force,
distraction devices, chermcal agents, OC spray.

Okay.

Without having the whole list in front of me, | can't tell you everythung.
That's okay. Okay, have you— are you trained in criminal search and seizure
law?

As far as—

Making arrests, obtaining warrants. Are you tamed in that type of law?
Sure, we get training at the Academy.

How much training do you receive in that area?

| couldn't tell you, whatever the Academy —
A couple weeks?

1, 1 don't know.

Okay

t attended the Academy m 33, over ten years ago. | have no idea how many

1000025

10

REPORTERS ©4782 4 FO CO 600-626-6319

hours w for what

In these continuing law enforcement classes. have you ever had any classes
covering that type of subyect matter?

Oh, when |, | know when |, | used to work a canine also. We had search and

seizure —!'ve been to a few tramung, whether it be classes or seminars or

whatever you want to call them and other than that, without looking at my

résumé, | couldn't tell you when and where I've attended them.
Okay, are you familiar with the term probable cause?

Yes.

Okay, can you tell me the definition of probable cause?

MR. BROWN: You know, I'm going to~— what's the point of that
question even m a discovery deposition?

MR. BARRETT: | want to know if he’s competent in what, knowing
what probable cause is.

MR. BROWN: What difference does it make whether he is or not?

MR. BARRETT: This is a discovery dep. | think | have a—! can
vestigate this.

MR. BROWN: Why don’t you ask him what res judicata means or
anything? | mean, what's the point of the witness knowing? It's —he either
had probable cause or he didn't whether he knows what it is or not.

MR. BARRETT: | think it does matter if he, if he—he’s the one that has
to ascertain what probable cause is and | want to just simply —

MR. BROWN: Well, no, the judge is who ascertains what probable
Cause Is.

MR. BARRETT: I'd just like to know his definition, if he knows what

1000026

1 the definition of probable cause is, what's the —are you objecting?

2 MR. BROWN: | am objecting. |

3 | CONTINUATION OF DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MATTHEW D. BARRETT:
4} Q You can go ahead and answer. He's —

5 | A Pardon?

6 | Q You can answer.

71 A Okay, can you repeat your question?

8 | Q Sure. What is the definition of probable cause?

9 | A_ | guess, | guess in my opinion the way | would put it is having enough

10 whether it be information to give — are you asking me for my probable cause?
1 Like he said, the it's what -- the information | take to a judge. If, if | feel |
12 have enough information to take to a judge to, for him to approve —

13 | Q Sure, Officer, let me, let me clarify. I'm not asking you for—

14 MR. BROWN: You're asking for a legal definition —

: 15 | CONTINUATION OF DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MATTHEW D. BARRETT:

16 | Q_ I'm just asking for your, for your opinion.

17 | A tdon’t have a legal definition.

18 § Q Okay, what is your opinion of probable cause?

: 19 | A_ | was trying to give that to you.

20 | Q Okay, co ahead. |

‘ 21 | A If, if | gather facts and information, | feel probable cause is—in my mind is

22 when | have enough information to take to a judge for him to agree to sign
23 the document that | have.

24 | Q Okay, are you familiar with the requirements necessary to obtain a search

25 warrant then?

000627

12

A REPORTERS PAPER 6 MPO.CO 800-628-63'3

Yes, you have to have probable cause

Okay, can you bund of give me the steps you go through generally speaking |

when you obtamn a search warrant?

| gather mnformation and | put it &: a probable cause affidavit and | take i to |

the judge

Okay, *hen he either approves or desapproves, right?

Correct.

Okay, do you ever consult with the Prosecutor when you re doing ths?

I'd heve to say at tines | probably have at one time or another

Okay, can you describe to me the purpose of the probeble cause affidavit |
that you submutted in support of thes?

The purpose of the, the affidavit would be for the pudge to rewew, | guess
Okay, well, what's, whet's the purpose of t? Why do you submit #7

So he can review ft and either agree to sign a, & search warrant or not,
whether, | guess if X's @ probuble couse for a search warrant, if W's @
probable cause for an arrest of what @ might be.

Okay, what must be contained in the probable cause affidavit when you -
Facts.

Okay, anything else?

| guess | don't understand the other, any other question then.

Well, what do you— when you're generally speaking —

That I'm, that I'm, | guess that I'm a lew enforcement officer, that's usually
in there. Are you talking a search warrant?
Yeah, no, the probable cause affidavit. Let me, let me clarify

For a search werrant.

000028

REPORTERS PAPER bere CO 8G ere 6F1)

Yes, generally speaking —! m not referring to any specific case — when you. |

when you're drafting one oF putting one together, what, what do you
normally put in there? That's af | want, want to find out

Well, we have 2 form that &. @ asks for cur name

Okey

— and, and if we are a law enforcement officer with which agency, asks for
the address and asks for the tems that we'll be lookiny for, then for the
facts of the case or the facts of the, the information, | quess

Okay, now when the facts of the information in the probable cause affidavit
are based on hearsay lskke from an mflormant, okay, are you required to
establish the reliabdity of the informant or to corroborate that information in
some way’

| guess 4 depends on the cwcumstances

All nght, but would you normatly — generally speaking would you make an
attempt to maybe corroborate of establish the reliability?

I've obtained numerous search warrants, whether it be with informants,
working with them undercover o; whether it be with information that just |
obtained from somebody, | guess. | don't understand what you mean by —
Well, | mean -

—establish rehabidity Can you give me some, some guidelines of where

you're talking there?

Sure, sure, if you, if you, if you're ever unsure what I'm saying, just do like
you're doing right now. Ask me. If, if you have an informant like an, a
anonymous person coming with, to a tip with you [sic], do you normally

wwestigate what they re saying to make sure that they re telling the wuth,

000029

14

4 SEPORTERS ©4788 6 @FQ CO 800-696-651)

you know, of lo corroborate it somehow by taking additonal investigative
steps

| guess, | guess —

— generally speaking?

~sometimes if it's possible, we'll do that, yeah

Okay, is it wnportant to establish the credibility of a witness?

| think depending on the circumstances it can be, yes.

Okay, can you just give me a general idea how many times in your career
you ve drafted a probable cause affidavit?

| don't have a clue.

Many umes?

Many.

Okay, has your request for a search warrant ever been rejected?

Not that ! can recall.

So every me you ve ever submitted one, 5 usually — t's beer approved by
the judge or magistrate.

As far as | can recall. | don’t, | don't ever recall one being rejected.

Okay, how often do you interact with children during the course of your
duties as 4 law enforcement officer?

| taught DARE fos six years throughout the grade schools, so a lot

Can you tell me what you, how you taught DARE? | mean, what is—

The DARE program is the Drug Abuse Resistance Education program. |
taught primarity to filth graders from—! think | started in "90, late ‘94 or
maybe early “95. | don’t remember which and like | said, | taught for sx

years and | taught anywhere from—weill, the primarily program was

000038

15

|

REPORTERS ©4°ER 4 PQ CO $00-420-4513

FORw~ COO - &

seventeen weeks long. | taught every fifth grade student that came through
for six years and then | also gave what we calied the secondary programs to
K through— it'd been K through four at the time.

Where did you do this at?

Weill, at the time it was at Columbia and Riddle for a while and then the
school combined as far as we had two separate K through fives and then
they combined, and then we, we actually — when the school’s combined, we,
we dropped the K, one and two and then | just taught third, fourth, and fifth
grade.

Okay, and you still do that today?

No, no, when |, | started working undercover narcotics and | guess we
dropped the DARE program.

Okay, as an officer have you ever assisted — and \'m not talking about this
case too. Have you ever assisted the Welfare Department or Office of Family
and Children of any other agency that works with children concerning
matters?

Yes.

Can you tell me about it?

|, | am the Department's child abuse investigator. So | investigate,
investigate child molesting cases, child abuse cases, | guess, if they happen |
in the city limits particularly and | guess any, anything else for that matter
that —| guess if they feel that it, it takes — well, | guess, | guess if they want
me to investigate a child case in any matter.

can you approximate how many of these types of cases you've

vestigated? 0 0 003 |

SEPORTERS PAPER BPG CO 600-626-6313

FORM C100 - Ut

> oOo F OC

So > 6 ®P oO

ocr Oo °F

Any case involving a child?

Yeah.

| don’t have a clue. |, | don’t know.

Many, a lot?

Many.

Generally speaking do children, say, eight, nine years of age or younger
always tell the truth when you, when you, you know, talk with them about
@ case or something?

| quess generally speaking?

Yeah, generally speaking.

| would say generally speaking most of the time, yes, they do.

Okay, do they ever —have they ever had a tendency to fabricate things when
you've spoke with them? You loter find out or maybe go off on an
imaginated, you know, imaginative story or something like that.

Sure.

How often does that happen?

1, | can’t say—! don't know how often. | mean, it, & happens.

Have you ever been charged, arrested or convicted of any crime, infraction,
ordinance violauon?

No.

Have you ever been named as a plaintiff or a defendant in a civil lawsuit?
To tell you the truth, | don’t remember if my name was actually in the tort
claim that came through the city on that criminal gang deal--do you
remember that—when they picked everybody at the Department basically?

MR. BROWN: | don't know either. 000032

17

PORTERG PAPER 4 VFS CO. 800-680-63'3

FORM C-100 - LASE

24

25

THE DEPONENT: We, we had a—the Department had a tort claim
that—

CONTINUATION OF DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MATTHEW D. BARRETT:

Q Tort claim notice?

A Yeah, that we were being sued by some members of a gang that we had
arrested and to tell you the truth, | don’t— it was, it was bogus enough that
| guess | didn’t, | didn’t even pay any attention if my name was on the list.

Q When was this?

A It'd been 2000 maybe or, or before.

MR. BROWN: Well, whatever you remember.
THE DEPONENT: |, I’m saying maybe, maybe 2000 or, or sometime
before that, not far. |, | don’t know for sure.

CONTINUATION OF DIRECT EXAM-NATION BY MATTHEW D. BARRETT:

Q Just to the best of your memory. Okay, have you ever been accused of using

qussesive force on another law enforcement officer or a civilian?

Excessive force >; another law enforcement officer?

Assault and battery.

On another law enforcement officer?

Yeah.

. 2 ©. 2 2. ete

Okay, have you or any officers under yous -ommand have ever had— have
you ever had any evidence suppressed in a court?

A Any officers under my command? 000033

10

REPORTERS PAPER 6 MFG.CO. 800-620-63:9

FORM C-100 - LA

24

25

Q

A

o Fr obo Fe Oo FF 8B °F?

LQ

You or any officers under your immediate command.
1, | can’t answer for those officers. | don’t know if they have or not. |
haven't been to all thew cases.
All right.
Have |? |, | honestly can’t recall ever losing a suppression hearing right now
if that gives you something to shoot for.
I'm just asking.
Okay.
[AN EXHIBIT WAS MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S DEPOSITION EXHIBIT
#A FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFICATION.)
I'm going to hand you a document marked as Defendant's Exhibit A. I'd just
like you to take a moment and look it over and then just please identify it for
me.
It is the probable sane atte for a search warrant.
Okay, is that your signature on the second page?
Yeah, a Xerox copy, ys.
What do you mean a Xerox copy?
Well, | have a Xerox copy. !t’s not an original.
Right, but what I'm saying is is that your signature though?
Yes, that would be 2 duplicate of my signature.
Okay, the document indicates that you visited Riddle Elementary School to
interview Callie R. Richard; is that correct?
Yes.
Okay, you state in the affidavit that you were responding to a telephone call

from a school counselor, Patty Keim spelled K-e-i-m, regarding Callie; is that

0100034

$n

A REPORTERS PAPER & MPO. CO. 800-426-4313

FORM C-100 -

24

25

> © F> 8B

> 8o 2? §

right?

| don’t believe so. ! don’t see where you see it’s a telephone call,

Well, you were responding —how, how did she contact you then? Let me—
| was at a—| believe either Su. pension or an expulsion hearing for another
student when she gave me this information. She was present during that
expulsion hearing.

Okay, verbally?

Yes,

Where was this at?

That would have been at the Rochester Administrative Building, Rochester
High Schooi Administrative building.

C1 you tell me the substance of that, those conversations?

With, with Patty and |?

Yes.

That she had a student that gave her some information abou! drugs. She
wanted me to come and talk to her.

Okay, so based on what you wrote here in the affidavit, would it be fair to
say that Callie herself did not personally contact you and request your
presence at the school?

Yeah, | guess that would be correct, yes.

Okay, do you recall what time Patty Keim spoke with you regarding this
matter? | don’t think it’s indicated here in the affidavit, Officer.

Well, |, | don't recall. | can’t remember what time | was supposed to been at
the expulsion hearing. It was after we actually ended the expulsion hearing

is when she come up to me afterwards and told me this but | don't recall

(0.00035

20

(RPORTERS PAPER 6 MFO. CO 800-626-6313

FORM C.100 - LAL

24

25

what the actual time was.

What day was that on? Was it the sme date that you did the search? Is that
what it was?

Yes.

Okay, | think it says here in, in the paragraph four, it says you went to the
school at one. So would it be correct to say that or to assume that you
spoke with Patty before one o'clock that day?

Yes.

Okay, okay, now after she contacted you, did you take any type of
investigative steps before you came to the school?

No, |, | didn’t even know the student's name that | was going to talk to, |
don’t believe, at that time.

Okay, should you have taken any type of investigative steps before you
spoke with Callie? .

Well, | had to have some information to go on before | can investigate
anything, | do.

Okay, so this was your first step.

Yes.

Okay, now you arrived at the school at about one p.m. as you indicated,
correct?

Yes.

Okay, and this was on October 13th, 2003, the date of the search?

That | would have beer at the school?

Yes.

| believe that's correct.

1000036

21

RPO PORTERS PAPER AMPO.CO 800-626-6315

FORM C-100 - LA

24

25

All right, now specifically where at in the school did all this questioning take
place?

In the, in—! believe it’s in, in Patty's office. |, I'm not sure if it's—it’s the
counselor's office. I'm assuming it's Patty's.

Okay, do you-without and you can, you can refer to any of these
documents to refresh your me =~ throughout this deposition but try to
recall things independently. Do you independently recall how many other
adults were present with you?

| believe there was one other one that |—at this time | don’t even recall who
that was. | was too focused on talking to Callie at the time.

Okay, | think the affidavit says it was the Principal, Mrs. Johnson.

Mrs. Johnson, probably right, yes.

Okay, okay, that was the other one. Were there any other children present
besides Callie during the questioning? |

No.

Was the door closed during the interview?

i don’t recall. |, I don’t know if it was Closed behind us when we went in or
not.

All right, well, es were you questioning? | mean, was there’a table or ow
you standing or —

She was—| think she was on a couch. | was sitting in—| don’t know if it
would, would have been— it seems to me it was one of ti.”. the smaller, like
the student chairs. It seemed it was pretty small and | believe Callie was
sitting on a—| think it was a couch and Patty and Mrs. Johnson—| believe.

Mrs. Johnson might have been sitting on the same couch. | don’t remember

000037

22

BR REPORTERS PAPER & MFO. CO. 600-626-6353

FORM C-100-

24

25

> o& FF 8

oe FF 8&8 °F

where Patty was seated exactly.

How close were you to Callie?

Close enough | cov'ld hand her a pen and a paper and she could hand it back.
| mean, within arm's reach 1 should say.

How about the other adults? How close were they?

Oh—

You say one was sitting by her?

Fairly close, you know, | guess, you know, close enough to be sitting on the
same couch but—

Now —

~—within arm's reach, all of them I'd say.

Okay, now prior to this particular interview, did you or any other law
enforcement officer ever speak with Callie regarding any of these matters?
Not that I'm aware of. —

Okay.

§ didn’t. | don’t know if—I’d assume nobody else had.

Describe to me what you were wearing when you spoke with Callie during
the interview. By that | mean were you in full uniform?

Oh, no, I, | work as an investigator and | don’t wear a uniform: | wear plain

clothes of whatever type, usually some kind of casual dress. That day,

particular day | don’t, | don’t remember what | was wearing. Well, | take that
back. | do kind of remember because the day we served the search warrant
| had on a good pair of black slacks or pants, | guess. | had on black shoes
and | believe | had on my bright blue button-down shirt with a yellow tie, |

believe. | have no idea about a coat, if | even had one.

(000038

23

2A REPORTERS PAPER EB MPG CO 600-620-4515

Form Cc 100

24

25

8 2? 8 FP BO ®P

Were there any type of identifying marks of the Fulton County Police
Department on your, on your clothes?

| don't work for Fulton County Police Department.

Or wherever you were, you're, you're—

Typically | would have my badge on my belt but | can’t -! don’t know if | did
that day or not. Usually if |, if I'm dressed like that, I'll have a badge or so
that way people know that I'm a police officer.

Did you have a firearm visibly holstered?

Depending if | had my coat on or not. If | had some sort of coat on, | don’t
know. if i had 8 coat on, it would have been covered. If | had my coat off,
it, it would have been holstered and on my side, yes.

Okay, did you bring any written questions with you as a guide to the school

when you were questioning Callie?

Written questions? No.
Okay, you were just doing it off the top of your head when you were |

investigating her? |
Yes.

All right, did you take any notes when you spoke with Callie?
Yes.

Okay, what'd you do with those _ after the interview?

' used them to type up my search warrant affidavit.

Do you still have possession of them?

Yes.

Okay, did you ever give copies to anyone else?

Notes?

000039

24

REPORTERS PAPER 4 HFG CO. 690-626-6313

FORM C-100 -

24

25

co Fr Oo FF DO

Yes

No.

Was any portion of this interview ever taped or video recorded by anyone?
Not that I'm aware of. | don’t—I’m assuming the school wouldn't do that
and | didn’t.

Okay, were you ever informed as to Callie’s age at the time of your
questioning?

| believe | was. |, |, | can’t remember it off the top of my head. | think it was
either eight or, eight or ten. | don’t know for sure.

Okay, the notice of detention says eight. So I’m just running off that.
Okay, that, that, —

That sounds about right?

—that's probably right then, yeah.

Okay, were you ever informed as to what grade level she was in during the
interview?

I'm sure | was but | don’t—| mean, obviously she’s at a school of third,
fourth, and fifth graders. So | knew it had to be one of the three.

Third grade sound right?

I'm sure if that’s what you tell me. ©

Okay, can you describe to me what Callie’s physical appearance is? How tall
is she? How much would you approximate she would weigh?

Oh, gosh, I'd have to probably say just a little under four lest maybe.
Okay.

Weight, | don’t know, maybe, maybe eighty pounds. | don’t know. That's

hard for me to say, | guess. i—

(000040

25

REPORTERS PAPER 6 MFG.CO. 800-626-6353

FORM C-100- LA

24

25

eo > 8 FF OO PP

Sure, could you describe to me hes body frame? Was she—

‘ slender, | mean, she’s not heavyset or big-boned or anything like that.
nay, Can you describe to me in detail the types of questions that you were
asking her during your interview?

In the beginning | would have asked her, you know, how she, she came to
know about some of the things she knew about and she—obviousty she’s,
she talked about living there, having, having access, free access to every
place she had been and that she had been out in the barns. You know, asked
her, you know, what, what was it she found out there and if she knew what
it was exactly and if she knew what that meant. Like if—she, she kept
referring to marijuana and | said, asked her if she knew what that was and
she said yes.

Did you ask her any personel questions about Carl Richard or her mother or
anyone else, any individual person?

| guess | don’t know who you're talking about by Carla.

Cart.

Carl.

Her father.

Yeah, Carl is her father. Charla is her stepmom and Carmen is her mother.
All right, did you ask any questions regarding those people, those specific

people?

Yes, I'm sure | would have.
Okay.
| would have asked her if, if her, if her dad was, had been in the barn, if

Charla had been in the barn. | don’t believe | asked about Carmen because

000041

26

| REPORTERS PAPER & MPG. CO. 800-626-6313

FORM C-100-:

1 didn’t—at this point she had nothing to do with it other than being her
mother.

Okay, did you ever ask her if her, if her father or stepmother ever, you know,
used this, these illegal substances?

1 don't remember if | asked her or if she offered that to me. I can’t remember
at this point during —

Okay.

~ the conversation if | had asked her the question or if she went ahead and
offered it when, when | asked her how she knew what this, what it was.
She, she, she commented that other »eople had come over to the house and
smoked it with Charla und her dad.

Do you recall any other types of questions you were asking her besides
those?

I guess | don’t—other types, no. | mean, it was all related to this pretty mec!
as far as | remember.

Did you ever indicate to Callie what you probably planned to do with the
information that she wee providing you?

1 don’t remember at that point telling her for fear of her getting home before

we had an opportunity to be at the house. ! didn’t want her to go home and,

and be worried about it. | don’t, ! don’t remember telling her what we
intended to do.
Did she ever ask you what you were going to do with that information?
| don’t recall her even asking.
MR. BARRETT: Do you need to change that tape?

THE REPORTER: No, it does it automatically.

(0.00042

27

1 | CONTINUATION OF DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MATTHEW D. BARRETT:

2} Q Okay, did, did Callie ever indicate to you as to why she provided this
3 information to, to Ms. Keim?

4 A Keim?

5 | Q Keim, | keep saying that wrong but | mean Keim.

6 | A Not as far as I’m aware. She didn’t, she didn’t tell me why she was doing
7 it.
8 | Q Did Miss Keim ever tell you maybe why Callie gave this information to her?
9 Did she ever —any conversations with Callie regarding the, you know, why

10 Callie was saying this?

11 | A_ | don’t believe she told me why and she—|, | don’t know that, | don’t know

12 that we ever really knew why for sure. There, there—! believe there were
13 some questions as far as abuse but |, | don’t know that that was—! don’t
14 know that that was a reason why.
: 15 | Q What do you mean by abuse?
16 | A There were some accusations of child abuse.
: 17 | Q Did you—you didn’t include that in your affidavit. Why didn’t you do that
: ' 48 for?
é 19 | A_ I didn’t know that I'd be searching for anything to do with child abuse.
20] Q Okay.
21 | A_ I mean, as far as | was concemed, that didn’t really have anything to do with
22 the search warrant.

23 | Q Did you ever ask Callie as to whether or not she had ever used any marijuana
24 or illegal drugs herself?

25 | A_ |, | don’t actually believe | remember asking Callie that. She's eight.

000043

7A

| REPORTERS PAPER & MFG.CO. 000-626-6915

rum 100-1

Now in paragraph four of the first page of your affidavit, I'll let you find it.

As you referenced before here easter, you state that Callie found what she

believed to be marijuana in the barn and your, you further stated that “she

knows what it is because she had been around it before.” Is that correct?

Yes, that’s what it says.

Now assuming this is in fact what she said, is it possible that she could have

been mistaken regarding the identification of this substance alleged to be

marijuana?

Well, | guess you're saying is it possible. | guess as I’ve said before in other

testimony, anything's possible.

Okay, did you ever investigate as to whether or not, make any other tyre of

investigations to ascertain if she knew what she was talking about?

| guess other than exposing her to marijuana and, and there was no way that

| was going to do that, | guess, and | didn’t feel that exposing her to

marijuana would be a, a way to do that.

Well, the statement says that, “she knows what it is because she’s been

around it before,” but it doesn’t provide any dates or places of her alleged

prior observations. Would you agree?

No, it does not provide any dates or specific incidents.

Did you ever ask her about specific —

When she told me that she'd been around it when, when her father and, and

Charla and them had smoked it before, |, | took that as enough at that point.
yo etna |

Okay, and just getting kind of back where we were speaking about, do you

believe that a young child of her age is, is qualified to make an assessment

like that as to whether or not it is marijuana o1 net? She's eight years old.

000044

29

RPORTERS PAPER & MFO.CO. 600-626-6313

PORM G-100 - LAS

24

25

> Oo F> 8

| think giving her living conditions, | think she was qualified, yes.

What, what do you mean by given her living condition?

When we found marijuana in the house, it was in a kitchen drawer which she
had immediate access to. It was in her stepparents’ or her parents’ dressers
which I'm sure if, as you were a kid, you probably went through your mom's
dresser drawers too and/or dad's. So—

Okay, but that was—!’m sorry. Go ahead.

—that, that was—I guess at her age she probably did the same thing. So
yeah, | think, | think she is, is—for a child of eight years old, | think she is
overly qualified as compared to one that shouldn't be, yes.

Well, that was after the fact but I’m talking about the time that you were
making this assessment right here when you were drafting your probable
cause. Do you think she was qualified at the time to make that assessment
because at the time—

Yes.

~ you didn’t know it.

At the time that she did that, at the time | got the statement from her, | felt
that she was qualified to give this information.

Well, how was she qualified?

You asked me if | feit she was and | felt she was.

Well, what—how do you feel? | mean, what were you relying on?

1 was relying on the history, | guess, of information that had come
from— whether it be numerous rumors or what you want to call it, prior
arrests, information that has come from— whether it be the Richards’ farm

corporation if you want to call it or from the Carl Richard's 45

30

mer OMTERS PAPER a ~Pa CO s00-472069))

"Om oem.

23

24

however you'd like to call «1. | felt that she was qualified m that matter,

that df she's ving there around 1 af the tune, then she d be quatifed to tefl
about it.

So based on rumors and prior arrests. Were these arrests — what were these
arrests?

The — | beheve the Richards were arrested some years ago for — and probably
actually before Callie was born for mariuana and given the, like ! said, from
working undercover narcotics there's, there always seems to be a flow of
information, whether you can follow up on it or not as far as getting an
actual search warrant. There's always a flow of information and, and after
having always that constant flow of information coming from, quote, the
Richards’ area, like | said, with her being a, a resident, figuring her having
been around it constantly.

Can you— what, what are these rumors that you're talking about?

Oh, we, we go out and we do marijuana eradication every year and we
always seem to pick some marijuana off of some, some Richards’ property,
never connected to han or at least never have but we're always cultivating
of not cultivating but | guess harvesting or whatever you'd like to call i,
eradicating maryuana plants from the area out there and it's always thought
to be the Richards’. Like | said, we never connect~d it to them. Earlier in the
year we hed made a, an indoor marijuana grow arrest in which the, the
gentleman we got that from was an employee of the Richards’ farm, and |
guess with all the information comang wn at this time, it seemed that she was

well-qualified to give the information she gave

Q But well, I'm not trying to trip you up here. I'm just trying to find the

000046

31

}

fromm CeO (4

connection. How does rumors, prior arrests, unrelated arrests and just these

ali unconnected matters qualify Cathe? | mean, how does that qualify her?
| mean, you give me— you know what | mean?
She lives in the house.

Okay, well, how does she— | mean—

_ When you lived in your pr ots’ house did you know what your parents were

involved in?

I'm not answering your questions today. I'm just asking you.

And I'm trying to give you an answer. | mean, that, that’s an obvious
answer.

Okay.

if you lived in your house, you know what your parents are involved in. She
lived in her house. She knew what her parents were involved in.

Okay, is it possible that the substance in the barn before you — trying to keep
in mind here that this is before—keep your frame of mind before you made
the search, okay? The substance in the barn, could it have been hay or corn
stalks or some other type of —

There was a barn full of hay, —

—ptant material?

— another barn that was ebbsolutely full of hay, straw, hay, straw. | guess I’m
not a farmer. | don't know a lot about the difference -

Okay.

—and she didn’t tell me that there was bales of hay up in a loft. She, she
knew there was one barn that was absolutely full. Well, she didn’t say full

it had a lot in it and | mean, she didn’t make reference to that being the

a4

REPORTERS PAPER & MFG CO 800-626-6319

FORM C-100- LA

24

25

e®?> @ >;

same substance.
But is it possible it could have been though?

Again, I'm going to say anything's possible.

Okay, and my next question is this stuff that you were talking about that
was found in her home, she said she thought it was marijuana but could it
have been something else? | mean, it was found in the kitchen, right? It
could have been like an oregano or parsley flakes or some type of spice. |
mean, what are we talking about here?

| suppose if you keep that in your—

is it possible?

— bedroom dresser drawer, it might be.

I'm not talking about the bedroom dresser drawer. I'm talking about when
you referenced here in the kitchen.

But if she'd seen it in the kitchen, she also probably would have seen it in
the bedroom. | guess if you keep oregano in the kitchen and in the bedroom,
that would be possible.

I'm not asking you about the bedroom. I’m asking you specifically about the
kitchen. ts it possible it could have been something else?

You're asking me what she, what she—if you, if | felt t was possible she
believed that was oregano because it was found in the kitchen and I'm
saying if, if that was oregano in the kitchen, then it must be oregano in the
bath, bedroom because it was the same substance.

Okay, did, did Miss Keim—am | saying that right again?

Yes.

i keep forgetting her pronunciation —or Principal Johnson had ever asked

000048

33

® REPORTERS PAPER 6 MFG. CO. 800-626-6313

FORM C100 -

24

25

> Oo F> 2

Callie any Questions during this interview?
Oh, |, I'm sure they would have, yeah. | mean, they, they got their — the
welfare of a child involved in this also.
Okay, do you recall the conversations?
No, | don’t, | don’t recall the conversations between them. They was more
focused on her health and welfare more than anything, | believe.
Okay, was Callie ever visibly nervous or shy? Did she appear scared?
Didn't really appear to be, not, not really like I'd thought, thought she should
be.
What made you think that she should be?
Well, | guess if | was turning in my parents for possession of marijuana, I'd
be a little bit scared to go home.
Was she ever crying?
1 don’t even believe she ever cried.
How long did you question Callie at the school?
Fifteen, maybe twenty minutes.
Did you ever speek to her at any time after the meeting at the school
concluded but before you served the search warrant?
No, once | left the school, that was the last contact | had with her.

[AN EXHIBIT WAS MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S DEPOS'TION EXHIBIT

#8 FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFICATION.)
This is Plaintiff's (sic] Exhibit B. Just take a second to look at it. Then
identify i for me please.
This is @ search warrant what—! guess the return or whatever you would like

to call it, the actual search warrant that the judge signed and then the return

000049

34

APCORTERS PAPER BPO CO 800-626-6315

Form C.100- is

24

25

oc Fp 8 >?

on the warrant on the bottom.

Okay, now the search warrant’s dated October 13th, 2002.

Two thousand three?

Three, I'm sorry. | meant that.

Yes.

And at the time of the issuance, i was, | believe, one fifty-eight p.m.; is that
correct?

That's what it says, yes

Okay, now in the affidavit for the search warrant you state that you
interviewed Callie at about one p.m., right?

Correct.

So this was on the same day.

Yes.

Okay, what did you do in between that time when you left the school and
up to, you knuw, before the judge issued this? What were you doing?

| prepared this first document that you handed me which is A.

Okay, now it arpears from your affidavit for the search warrant that you use
the information that Calle supposedly provided you as the sole basis for
applying for this warrant; is that correct?

Yes.

Okay, did you ever take in this time frame here but after you left the school
and up to the, when the judge issued this warrant, did you take any type of
investigative steps to confirm or corroborate any of the things that Callie told

you?

| felt | had enough probable cause to go ahead and file fos the search warrant

; 900059

FORM C10 Lae PORTERS PAPER BMF CO 800-426-63'9

24

25

oc Fr CO PF

>

which | did and which the judge signed.

Okay, could you have— could you have mvestigated further? | know you said
you thought you had enough—

t guess | could have went and done a knock-and-talk like we've done in the
past but this seems to be a much stronger way to go.

Okay, so what Callie told you was— there was nothing else that, that you
submitted to the judge to get this search warrant, correct?

You're—! might, | might have had a picture. | don’t remember if | had a
picture attached, an aerial photo or not of the, the actual property.

Okay.

If anything else was attached, that probably would have been it.

Is it possible that Callie’s mother, Carmen Richard, could have told her to say
something to spite Carl?

1, | don’t live in that house. | don’t know what she tells her.

But is it possible that somebody could —

Well, again, anything's possible.

Okay, that’s what I'm trying to ask you. Did you know that Carl was
divorced from Carmen Richard?

Vou tase, & & (tnew there wese-pctunity ext quing enbetaeen Conmen,
Carl and Charla. So | guess at this point in time | didn’t know whose was
who. So | think | later found out for sure who, you know, Carmen was
actually married to Car at one point but that at that time | wasn’t sure who
was who. So—

Okay.

—1 knew, | knew Carl—! didn’t know Carmen and Carl were ever actually

000051

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FORM C100 - A.

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married, | guess. | knew they had kids together. That's how we have —
Okay.

—Callie, Chioe and maybe Clover, | guess. That's yet to be determined, |
guess.

And is it possible that maybe she was saying something to hurt her father
out of spite because maybe something was going on in this paternity matter?
Back to anything's possible, | guess.

Okay, did you ever advise Callie of any Miranda rights prior to your
questioning?

Callie? No.

Why, why didn’t you advise her of any type of rights?

Well, | didn’t have her in custody and she wasn’t a suspect. She wasn’t
being interrogated. She was a witness.

Why wasn’t she in custody?

Well, she was at school. She wasn’t in my custody. | mean, she was, she
was attending school.

What do you mean “my custody"? Can you give me an idea what you mean?
| didn’t— she didn't, she wasn’t restricted of her freedom by, by my means.
She was, she was attending school and she, she spoke to a counselor and
a counselor called me and we spoke to her voluntarily.

Do you know who summoned her to the interview?

1 don’t—

Did you ever speak to one, anybody concerning how she was, you know,
told to come meet, meet you?

1, |—no.

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Okay, did you ever get permission from any of her parents, either of her
parents to imtermew her
No.
Why not?
Didn't feel it was necessary at that point.
Are you required to obtain permussion from her parents before questioning
her?
Under those circumstances, | don’t believe so at school. Otherwise the, the
Principal and/or counselor would have ¢ ne so.
So you think there’s an exception to getting permission from parents before
questioning their child?
|, | believe give, given the circumstances, yes. It depends on whether you
have to have permission of not.
Okay, are you familiar with what is commonly referred to as indiana’s
juvenile waiver of nghts statute? it’s a generic name.
Are, are you talking about the form that we typically read to a juvenile when
we have them in custody and read them their rights along with thew parents?
| suppose that’s related to it but I’m just asking you are you familiar with the
waiver of rights statute os an officer?
The, the actual statutes? |, | guess I’ve probably looked at them at a time or
another but |, | can’t say that sitting here that | could give you verbatim or
even paraphrase what they might say.

(AN EXHIBIT WAS MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S DEPOSITION EXHIBIT

#C FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFICATION |

Okay, handing you Defendant's Exhibit C. Just take a second and fT

00005

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an

over and identify it for me.

That would be a prepared copy of my narrative and case information.
Concerning the Richard case?

Yeah.

Yes? You can take a second and look —

Yeah, it appears to be the, the, the same.

Okay, now just to the best of your ability, why don’t you take me on a step-
by-step walk-through when you arrived at the residence and conducted the
search up to when it ended. You can refer to this to refresh your memory but
try to do it independently here.

When we arrived, Sheriff Calvert and | approached the door and other
officers were in the process of securing other areas of the property for, for
not knowing who might or might not be around. | believe it was Sergeant
Beaird with the Sheriff's Department informed us that he had located
someone at the point—we didn’t know who—on the west side of the
residence.

1 don’t remember if he summoned to her or if she walked around the
comer or, of what for sure but Charla, who | knew as Charla, eventually
walked around the corner and was congenial, polite, you know. | think she
said, “What's up?" or, you know, something to that effect, and | advised her
at that time of the search warrant for the residence and provided it to her,
ond | ached her if we Could step incide in ender to conduct our business.

Upon going inside she, she took a copy of the search warrart, it was
read to her and told her that we was going to search the residence and the

property, and |, |, | believe at that time her concern wes, was with her kids,

000054

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REPORTERS PAPER 6 PG CO 600-626-691)

formu C-100-U

at least Quentin and Carly Rae. | believe they were sleeping at the time, and
she, she had asked if she could take them to another residence so as to not
be disturbed and interrupted by, by the aciivities and at that time | told her
that yes, she could take the kids and leave if she wanted to and—or | gave
her the option she could let them sleep and we would work around them and
try to be as quiet as possible and she took the option to, to let the kids sleep
and for us to basically search around them, and she was —! don't want— she
wasn't agitated. She was again, very congenial.

She wanted to—she kept wanting to move around the residence and,
and for our safety, we had requested her not to go from room to room
because we had to keep somebody with her all the time for our safety.
Did you not want her to leave the house?
| didn't care if she left the house. | just didn’t want her wandering around the
residence while we were trying to search. | had already told her she was free
to go and take the kids if she wanted to and she chose not to. She then
asked if she could change her clothes and | said, | said we had—I guess for
our terms, cleared a room being the bathroom and what | mean by cleared
is made sure we'd searched it for any contraband and weapons or anything
like that to make sure she didn’t have any access to them, that she could get
some clothes and go in there and change, and |, | believe eventually that
was, that was done.

We cleared—! believe it was the bathroom right next to the, to the
master bedroom and, and she eventually changed into different clothes and
she sat at the—! guess the kitchen table is what you call it, the table there

in the kitchen area and actually spent quite a bit of time on the phone while

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we were conducting our search.

| believe | started my search area at the, the door that actually, the
entry door that goes into the garage and worked my way—! guess if you
was facing the door, worked my way to the right through the kitchen
cabinets and on sround including the refrigerator, in that area until | got to
the, the drawer as indicated by the sink where | found, found the, the
maryuana and/or the, the white container, | believe is what « — white plastic
container | might have called it. | don’t know.

Located it, photographed it, bagged it for evidence, so on and so forth,
and | can’t remember if it was right at thet point right now or if it was after
I'd started searching another area, they had called me back to the bedroom
where they located marquana in the bedroom drawer or a dresser drawer in
the bedroom and then a smoking device was on another, on another dresser.
\ believe that was photographed and bagged.

| believe really fairly close to that point, | don’t—like | said, | don't
remember if it was —| believe it was shortly ofter thet | went out and | had
told the, the Sheriff Roy Calvert—who | believe was sitting with Charla at
the time—that she was going to be placed into custody and, and charged
with the possession of marijuana, and she was advised of her rights and
immediately after she requested to speak with an attorney, and that was —!
think that’s when |, | went outside. | think, | think Trooper Shaver might
have come in and, and said that they requested my assistance outside in
some of the outbuildings outside.

So | went outside, started going through some of the outbuildings

outside, went to, specifically to the, to the locations that Callie told me

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REPORTERS $4°ER 4 PO CO 800-676-4631)

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about which was the same with the kitchen drawer which when she gave
me the information she—in the kitchen drawer by the sink there'd be a
white contaimer and there'd be maryuana im there and low and behold, that’s
what we discovered, and the same thing with the outbuddings

The barn by the rabbit cages, she said there would be, | believe,
camouflage bags or some sort of bags, | believe she told us, that would
have, had marijuana in them that was near rabbit cages, and sure enough
there was maryuana in the, out there in the bags near the rabbit cages in a
box, | believe, is what she — some sort of box or tub or something she told
me, and then she said out in the other barn in the, in what she'd said—!
think she called it the cow lot or | can’t remember exactly her terminology
but | went to, went to the barn and it actually had all the hay in it at first
because trying to stay somewhat systematic so we didn't just start running
every different direction, went through that bam.

it had @ lot of hay and cut across the, the cattle lot because all the
cows were focused on all the other officers who over in the other area
because we were told —! think Charla might have even said that one of the
cows out there wasn't very nice, and so while it was focused in that
direction, | went around to—! don't know if it’s a corn crib of what you
actually officially call them. Like | said, I'm not a farmer.

it kind of had open-air sides, slats | guess. You can —if you look just
right, you can see through the barn basically, and | went into there and | |

went up into the loft of it, the, the top portion over the center and | found

a, large quantities of marijuana stems and, and bags and | guess so on and

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Did you ever test any of the stuff on scene or was it determined later?
Al, at—no, at the residence we, it wasn't tested, no.
Did you test any, any type of drug paraphemalia, you know, any type of
drug substance on the, on the scene?
At, at the residence we tested — when we conducted the rest of our search,
1, |—once we got done outside, | went back into the residence to help finish
inside. In, in conducting the search into the basement and in finding the, the,
quote, secret room, whatever he'd like to call it, bomb shelter or whatever
he may be calling it these days, | don't know.
ts that inside the residence?
Inside the residence behind the panel inside the closet, move the shelves,
open the door, concrete walls, located some, some buc ets with dirt and —
How did you know about that room?
Pardon?
How did you know about that room?
Callie told me about it.
Okay.
And marquana on the floor. Again, collected it, photographed it, same thing,
conducted the rest of the search throughout the rest of the rooms and inside
@ room in—it would have been the — if |—1 don’t, | don’t know that | have
my—it's the last room, the last bedroom in the basement. .

1, | want to say it’s to the east but I’m not sure even with the, how
the house is laid out which way | was facing but | think that’s nght, bedroom
to the east and to the north. Located in the closet in there was a, a black —!

guess I'd call it a gym bag — that had letters written to Char which would be

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Charla at the address of the, the house there, 2183 West, 500 North, |
believe, and also located in there in that bag was numerous items related to
the use of crystal methamphetamine and some small baggies that had a
white powder residue and which we did test for crystal meth and which it
tested positive for crystal meth. So to answer your question if we ever field
tested anything on the scene, yes, and it would have been for crystal meth.
So what happened next after all this?

1—Carl arrived home somewhere in this time period. | don't remember exactly
when it was. | just at one point was told that, “Hey, Carl's here,” and he
was out back on the patio area with, with Carly Rae and | don’t —! think they
still had Charla upstairs at the time, and | went outside and spoke to Carl
about what was going on and again, Carl was congenial and cooperative and
told him what was happening, what was going on and that he needed to see
about finding somebody to watch his children as he was going to be arrested
for possession of marijuana, and that Charla was going to be arrested also
for the possession of marijuana and possession of a Schedule Ii controlled
substance, and he, he—! think he made the comment, something about,
“Well, what'd Charla say about the kids or somebody watching the kids?”
and | said well, | hadn't gotten that far yet to ask her because we just hadn't
made it there yet.

Okay.

| just ran into him first.

What happened next after that?

1, | think Charla might have come downstairs where me, Carl and | were still

talking about it, and they kind of conversed between themselves about who

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was cormng to get the kids and they made arrangements and | believe, |
beleve Tracy Pocock, which would have been Charia’s sister-intaw, came
and got Carly Rae and to tell the truth, | don’t know where Quentin —1 think
Quentin might have went with Tracy at the time also. |’m not, I'm not sure
where Quentin went for sure.

| know they were gone actually before |, before | got to really find out.
| beheve the Sheriff had been talking to them upstaws and | believe —! think
it’s Cacl’s sister, Rita, which would have been Aunt Rita was going to care
for Catiie and Chice, Carts biological children at that point and | knew ail the
children were taken care of and, and at that point we had decided to, it was
best to go ahead and transport Cari and/or Charla to, to the jail and proceed
with paperwork, | guess.
What time was it when you left?
When, when | left actually? | left somewhere between four-thirty and five.
| can’t remember exactly what time & was. it was somewhere in that
neighborhood.
Were there other officers out there when you left that were still —
| believe we all left about the same time.
Okay.
You know, there was, there's still people around. | know there was — they
went ahead and started to transport Charla and Carl. | don’t, | don't think
they rode together but to tell you the truth, | wasn't out there when they put
them in the vehicles to go. So | don’t know who rode with who and so—but
yes, the other supportive officers would have been in the vicinity. | know |

talked to Detective Reichert and made arrangements with him to, to meet

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him at our evidence bay so we could exchange custody of the evidence night

in through the evidence bay together.

Okay, let me back up and just ask you some questions about the search.
When you were conducting a search when you were inside the residence, did
any of the officers ever come inside from the outside and advise you that
they couldn't find anything inside any of the barns or outhouses?

| believe Trooper Shaver come in. | don't remember if it was him or Sergeant
Beaird. | spoke to both of them off and on regularly. One of them advised
that, right off the bat that they had found something and the other one had
said, said that they didn’t find everything that, that | was advised that was
supposed to be there.

Okay, then winat did you do?

And that's, that's—! think that's about the point that they said they, they
want my help outside. So that’s about the point that | went outside and
discovered the things that we had been told exactly where they were.
How long did it take you to discover them?

In the one barn, probably, oh, five or ten minutes. | think the officers were
concentrated on a barn, on the bam, a—there’s kind of two sides to the
bam, | guess, and they were all concentrated on one side of the barn
because | had told them about a, | believe, a, a ladder. So they were in an
area where there was a ladder and just was focused on that and said, "Well,
here's the ladder that we think you're talking about," and | said, “| don’t
think this is the right spot.” So it took me a few minutes to get everything
straight and —

Hu. many barns of outbuildings are there on this property?

a 90006 &

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| think ~1 guess you would consider them three is what | would say.

is there a main barn?

1, | don’t know what they would call the main barn.

Like the large barn?

They're actually two of them that are fairly large and to tell you the truth, |
don’t know—again, to me a barn’s a barn. | don’t know what goes on in, in
any of them.

Okay, can you tell me how you entered the barns? | mean, were they locked
or had you—

No, none of the barns were locked. They either had open access or the only
barn that had anything remotely as a door was the, the corn crib area. |
suppose that was to keep the cows out.

Did you or any other officers ever break any of these barn or outhouse
doors?

Break them?

Break them.

We-—as far as the door, it was just a piece of wood that was kind of laid
over, propped up with another piece of wood. So | wouldn't say we broke
them. Moved them.

Okay, so you—there was no damage to the door structure itself.

No, not that I’m aware of.

Okay, on page three of your report, about the geographic center, you state
that you told or excuse me. Okay, hold on a minute. Okay, about, about the

centes of page three of your report you first indicate that Carl arrived on the

scene as you've already previously indicated today. You state that you told

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him that you wanted to talk to him about the maryuana located in the barn.
Do you see —

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

— see where | am?

Yes.

Okay, there's no indication in your report that you advised him of any type
of Miranda rights at that time; is that correct?

Oh, at that point | hadn't.

Okay, why didn't you advise him of any of those—

|—again, | didn't—he wasn't actually in custody at that point when | went
outside to first talk to him.

Was he — would he have been permitted to leave the, the scene?

Right at that point there? Probably not.

Okay, was that an incriminating question?

Well, | guess it would have been if he would have given me an answer.
Okay, now | think we've already discussed some of this. Towards the
bottom then on, on the lowes half of page three, you, you're describing all
these conversations that you're having with Cari concerning his children and
Charla’s use of meth.

Urn-hmen.

Do you see kind of where | am?

| think so, yes.

It’s kind of that whole general paragraph.

Yeah, where it talked about the freaks?

Right, the freaks.

OO008A

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ASER REPORTERS PAPER 6 MFG CO 000-628-6919

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oclUCh PWC OmUhUCPhC—~C~

a oe

Um-hmn.

Agam, it doesn't appear that he was being uncooperative or resisted arrest.
1 think you earher commented he was congemal and cooperative.
He, he was, yes.

Okay, so did he ever give you any type of trouble on the day of the search?
The day of the search, absolutely not.

Okay.

None.

Now let's, let's shift to the next day on October 14th and | think the next
page kind of starts covering that. The next day you and Erica Baughman— am
| saying that right?

| think you're pretty close, Baughman or Baughman.

All right.

Yeah.
Phonetically—went out to Carl's property to remove the, the Richard
children, correct?

Well, not, not specifically to remove the children. We went out to notify
them of the removal of the children.

Oh. |

We had already — we had figured, obtained custody of the children and place
them in placement. So no, we didn’t go out there to remove the children. All
we went out there, just to deliver the notifications.

Okay, so the children were not going to be taken that day, right? You were
just serving a notice.

They, they were already removed.

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Okay.

The childrer—what we believed at the time, Chioe or not—excuse me
not — well, | guess I'll start with Chloe. Chioe and Callie were with Carmen
from what we understood or assumed would be from school. We had called
the school, made contact with them, made contact with Carmen and, and
Carmen was supposed to get the, those two from school, and Quentin, |
believe, was in custody of his father, Wayne, and Carly Rae—I'm trying to
remember all these names. Carly Rae was in the custody of Carol, | believe
at the time, which is Charla’s mother, and we had made arrangements for
all of those people to maintain that custody. The only question was between
Carol and Tracy Pocock of who was going to keep Carly Rae.

They had custody but | think it's mentioned in here that Carl, when he
showed up, that he had the young one, the one-year old in his arm?

Yes.

Okay.

To, to my surprise.

Why was it to your surprise?

Well, we'd already left Carly Rae with Carol in, in her care and went to his
house to notify him that he, that she was going to remain in, either in her
care or in Tracy's care and then he walked in the door with her. So to—at
that point as far as | was concerned, she was in the custody of Carol and
then when Car! walked in with hes, thet wes something, » bridge that we
was going to have to cross because we'd already, as far as we were
concerned, removed the children from the residence, and that's what we

were wanting to avoid was a confrontation.

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A

So you would have probably ended up removing that child then, that one-
year old.

Why sure. We already had a court order to do so.

Okay, okay, now can you tell me about the conversations that you had with
Erica Baughman before you went out there that day?

Oh, | told her that she didn’t want to go out there by herself to deliver these
notifications.

She worked for the Welfare Department?

Well, Welfare, —

Child—

—Child Protective Services, Fulton —

Right.

—County DFC.

Okay.

You name it.

Okay, go ahead then.

| told her that she—when, when we discussed the removal of the children
because of the—well, | guess not only for the abuse reasons but for the, the
manufacture of drugs on the property by statute and got 8 court order signed
by Judge Morton to remove the children, that | told her she didn’t want to
go out there by herself to remove the children, and | told her | would assist
her in doing that since it was already a part of my case. ,
Before you went out there to the property with her, did you ever advise any
other officer to maybe stand by in case there would be trouble?

1, | didn’t tell them to stand by. | called, | called my station and told them

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where | was going just in case. It’s standard procedure but | quess in this
case | just felt &« was probably a little bit more necessary than, than normal
and then | called, | believe | called Officer Carie Brouyette or Deputy
Brouyette at the County and told him that, “Hey, I'm, I'm going out here
just, just so you know where I'm at,” and that was, and that was about it.
| didn't tell him to come out in the area or stand by or anything. | just
wanted them to know where | was.
When you arrived out there, did you ever see him like parked down the road
or anything like that?
No, as far as | knew, | was the only one in the area.
Okay, have you ever delivered a notice of detention Lelore?
|—may have been early in my career but not, not, | mean, | can’t recall doing
one at this point in time right now, no.
Okay, describe to me again kind of in step by step what happened once you
got out there with Enica, just what the events that occurred.
Well, when |, when | first got out there, we didn’t expect anybody to be
home. We knew there was a warrant —| knew there was a warrant for Charla
for, for arson, and so we, we actually figured she would be avoiding us. So
| didn’t actually expect anybody to answer the door.

| figured Cari was working on the farm, you know. That's pari of his
duties. So | told Erica, just in case, | said, you know, given the day before
| didn't figure they were real happy with us. So | told her to wait in the car
and | would try to make contact with somebody at the residence, and when
we pulled in the drive, | noticed another vehicle sitting kind of up and to the

left on a cement slab area. It was a pickup truck of some sort and | can’t,

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can’t tell you for sure what even color it was, but there was a gentleman in
it. | thought, well, maybe that’s Carl by chance. You know, | didn’t know
why he'd be sitting there but maybe he just pulled in too.

So | pulled in and exited my vehicle and went up to the person in the
truck. | believe he told me his name was Kevin and | said, “Well, okay,
is — have you seen Carl? Is Cart around?” He said, “No,” he said, “I just come
down here myself to check on him." | said, “Okay,” and | said, “Have you
been up to the door yet?" and he said, “Nope, just getting ready to walk up
there.” | said, “I'll walk up there with you.”

So we both went up to the door together and | think at first he
knocked on it. We waited a few minutes and then | knocked on it and waited
2 couple more minutes and Kevin said, “Well,” | think he said, “I'm going to
take off.” | said, “Okay.* Now | actually started to walk away and was going
to go get the papers from Erica and just stick them in the door and | thought
well, I'll rap on it one more time. So | knocked on the door one more time
and waited, you know, a shorter time than | did the first time and started to
walk away towards the car again, and | think as | actually got down off the
first step, the door come open.

Well, | turned around and Charla was standing at the door and
said —| believe her, her words were something to the effect of "What do you
want now?" and | told her that we had some paperwork that we needed to,
to, to give her. At that point | hadn't told her what it was yet, just told her
| had some paperwork for her, and | motioned for Erica to come up from the
car and she did and she brought the paperwork up, and | asked Charla if we

could step in and talk to her to, you know, it was raining and pretty nasty

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out, and she kind of hesitated and | said, “Well,” | said, “I just thought we'd
get in out of the rain and, you know, out of the weather,” and she, she
opened the door and let us come in, and then | asked her if we could turn a
light on because it was fairly dark in there then and — because she had shut
the door back up, and we— she searched around trying to flip on a light and,
and | don’t know for what purpose or reason but none of the lights. would
come on.

So we were kind of, | guess, it wasn’t dark to where you couldn't see
but it was, it was, you know, darker than i'd like normal to read, and | told
her that we had a, a notice for her children and provided her copies of the
paperwork and then | told her that we had a arrest warrant for arson for her
and she began to question me about what | was talking about with the
arson, and | said, “Look, it’s not my case. | don’t know really anything about
it other than there’s another warrant for you and you're going to have to be,
you know, taken back to jail for it,” and she kind of threw some paperwork
around and, and got, | guess, discourteous and was, was becoming agitated
and about the time Carl walked in the door.

Well, actually | guess | seen a truck come in the yard first, one that |
didn’t recognize and at that time | thought, okay, | figured at that point

Carl’s probably home but | didn’t know, have any idea if he drove a car of 4

truck or what, and so @ truck pulled in and a short time later Carl come
through the door carrying Certy Rae, and like | said, that, that was my |
biggest surprise of the day was seeing him come through the door with her,
her.

| thought okay, and he, he immediately handed Carly Rae off to Charla

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YY & 2 @

as She was telling him at the same time, “They're taking our kids,” and he,
he began to question, you know, what was gomg on and, and she explained
to him that we, we were going to take custody of the kids and, and that |
had a another warrant for arson for her and, and he asked, you know, what
that was all about and she, she again said, “I don’t know what, what they’re
talking about,” and he, he then focused on me and handed, like | said,
handed — he finished handing Carty Rae off to Charla and he actually started
coming toward me and calling me a liar and raiving his voice and becoming
more and more violent as, | guess verbally violent at first at one point and
called me a har numerous times and, and said, made the statement like, “You
told me you wasn’t going to charge me with a 8 felony,” | think is what he
said of the, the meth charge of something.

1 don’t remember exactly what i was end | told him that that was a
mistake and, you know, that shoukin’t have happened and tried to explain
it to him and asked him to calm down so we could speak about it, and he
eventually put his hands on me and grabbed a hold of me and, and pushed
me up against the, the door.

What do you mean that he put your hands —

'e grabbed me—

Describe to me what he—

—he grabbed me by the— well, what would be your lapels [indicating] and
kind of held me —

Did you have a coat on that day?

Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, | had a coat, a some—it might have been my yellow

coat that I'm wearing now. | don't remember for sure if | had & on of not, —

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ABPORTERS PAPER 6 MFO. CO. 800-426-6913

Q

a

o FF, ©

Okay.

~ which one | had on but | had, yeah, | had some sort of —no, | remember
which one it was. It was a tan, a brown, tan one, brownish-tan. It was a
lighter coat and he grabbed me by that and had pushed, slammed —! guess
| don’t how you want to describe it—up against the —it was a door but |
think it was kind of like the —it was either off to the side of the door or right
about the door jamb or there, maybe there's a side window to the door.

| don’t even know for sure because it was behind me but | could feel
it, and he kept pushing me against the wall and, and kind of pushing me
against A”, then pulling me out a little bit and pushing me back agaist it and
raised his fist numerous times as if he was going to hit me and, and |, |
figured then that i was, it was getting pretty ugly, and so | again, tried
talking to him, | guess tied, tried talking him, talking him down more than
anything and trying to get him to calm down and understand that there was
@ mistake made and, you know, “You're not being charged with the 8
felony.”

It’s just the possession charge and he, he, like | said, he was focused
on, on the, on—he felt that | was dishonest with him and, and so |, like |
said, | tried to explain to him that that wasn’t the case. There was a mistake
somewhere but | didn’t know where it was made and—
About the charge?

About the charge, yeah, —
Okay.
—and | told him that, you know, |, |, | didn’t know how it haypened or what

happened but it—! agreed that he, he wasn’t supposed to be charged with

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that, and it didn’t seem to matter to him one way or the other what | had to
say. He just kept calling me a liar and, and he eventually pulled his fist back
after doing it numerous times and, and struck me in the chest, about, about
middie of the chest.

How hard?

Hard enough that it hurt. | guess | don’t know how hard the guy can actually
hit physically. I'm guessing pretty difficult.

Did it leave a bruise of any mark?

Didn't leave a bruise, didn’t leave a mark. I'm—! got to be honest. I'm not
the type that bruises or marks very easy but he didn’t leave a bruise or mark
but a substantial amount of pain.

Did you go seek medical attention?

No, | didn’t seek metal, medical attention, no broken bones or anything. So
1 mean—

Just enough —

—if it’s a bruise, it’s going to, it's going to heal. | mean, there's nothing you
can do for a bruise.

So ft was just kind of enough to hurt at the moment.

Enough to hurt at the moment and for a, for a while afterwards. The next
day | was sore. You know, | took an aspirin, you know, that kind of stuff to
make, make any discomfort go away. So it wasn’t anything serious.
Okay, so what happened next?

He, he had done that and he then, like | said, he, he was irate enough that
he just kept yelling for us to get out of his residence at this point. He said,

“Leave my house. Leave my house.” He pulled me away from the wall and

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opened the door and then physically pushed me—turned me around and
pushed me in the back out the door and as he was kind of going out the door
behind me pushing me, he turned back to Erica who was standing near the
door and said, “And get that fat hog out of here,” and she didn’t need to be
told twice and left the residence. She beelwred for the car and which | started
walking toward the car.

Then while he kept—he was behind pushing me in the back on the
way out to the car and | grabbed my—! had my radio, my portable in my
pants pocket —! don’t remember right or left — grabbed my portable and called
in that | needed assistance out at the residence and he, he made the
comment, something about, "Go ahead and call the SWAT team,” or
something to that effect, and | told him, | said, “That's, that’s not the case.
That's not what | was doing,” and | eventually made it to my car and told
Erica—he turned and went back inside at this point and told Erica to stay in
the car and lock the doors and |, | got into the car and actually retrieved a
weapon from my trunk and —

What was the weapon?

The weapon was what's called an Agent K UMP. It’s a forty-caliber hand or
weapon, | guess, and | waited at the rear of my car just, | guess, they, they
went back in the residence and closed the door. | think | advised, | think,
Fulton County —! can’t remember if | called them or Rochester — advised them
that, what had happened, that, that battery on an oltiecs ond tet they had
confined or secluded themselves in the house of something to that effect,
and | waited at the trunk of my car for other officers to show up, and | think

about the time Carie Brouyette pulled into the drive, Deputy, |, | looked over

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eer REPORTERS F47ER OB TO CO 800 488 4819

romeo

the top of my Car and could see Cari and Charla carrying Carly Rae getting
mto the. the same truck that | had seen pull m the yard earher and « was
laced northbound toward the road.

So |— well, there's another gentleman over there too who | didn't
recognize, didn’t know who that was, and so |, | talked to or hollered at
Cane Brouyette because he was, | thank, just getting out of his car or, o had
just gotten out, thinking that he'd be able to get hes car in front of that
vetcte to keep it from leaving and, and he, he wasn't able to respond in time
before they had gotten started. So that s when |, | moved over in front of
the truck in which Carl, Charla and Carly Rae were in— not in a child seat by
the way — but got over there in front of them and ordered them at gunpomt
to stop the vehicle and numerous tunes told hun to get out of the vehicle
and, you know, |, | think | made the comment, “Don't do this. Stop the
vehicie. Get out. Get out of the truck.” Numerous times | ordered him to, to
stop ard get out.

Eventually, | mean, |—it seems like hours but |, | know & was just a
matter of either seconds of a minute or two went by before he exited the
vehicle and | ordered him, once he exited the vehicle, to get down on the
ground and he, he failed to comply with that. He actually went to the bed of
the truck and reached over the side and, and at that pomwt rot knowing for
sure what he was going to pull out, he’s still at gunpoint and ordered hun to
stop and, and get on the ground and didn’t do so, and at one point he
watked toward the front of the truck toward me and kind of put hrs arms out
to the side and he says, “I'm unarmed. I'm unarmed,” and then as I'm still

ordering hwn to lay on the ground, he. he retreated back around to the rear

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of the truck and the whole tine Charia’s sitting in the truck.

He went back around to the rear of the truck and, and toward his
house. | thunk he made the comment, something to the effect of he’s, he's
not laying on the ground because it's ramming of something to that effect of
“it's all wet,” maybe. I'm not sure and he was, he was stopped on the
passenger side of the truck toward the house by Deputy Conley, Walker
Conley, and Walker or Deputy Conley kind of stopped him there and began
to speak with him and, and proceeded to take him into custody from there
and at that time Carie Brouyette was at the truck taking Charla into custody.
And that pretty much ended the whole incident, correct?

Pretty much, yeah. The time when, when he was in truck and | was in front
of it, he, he had @ m gear, actually started rolling at one pomt in gear and,
and then stopped when |, when | come in front of the truck.

How, how soon was it before you recerved your backup assistance —

Nt was — actually —

— from the time you radioed for help?

— it was fairty quickly. | mean, | called for assistance and it was within, I'm
going to say two or three minutes probably. |—

Okay, were they in the area or how did they —

|, Ihave no idea. After the fact, | guess, | found out that they were— Watker
and Carie had actually decided to come out to Charia’s house to see if tnev
could serve the, the arson warrant on her because it was actually Walker's
case but |—

Did you~

~ they weren't, they weren't, | guess they weren't in the area. | think, | think

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| heard Walker say that he had just turned off of 31 onto, onto 450 maybe.
Considering how you'd just been out there the day before and you searched
his whole, you know, his residence and his barns and alll that, do you think
a would have been maybe more, a little more appropriate if another officer
had came out to serve that notice just to keep, you know, the peace?
Weill, you know, your, your other partner, | think he is, made 9 comment
during our bond hearing that —
You're referring to Mr. Allen?
Pardon? |
Are you referring to —
Yes. Mr. Allen, that’s him. That he, he re

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Source: Frix Law Library, https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40386016_0349%3A2. Public record. Not legal advice.