# Transcript of Record — Maty v. Grasselli Chemical Co.

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## Record

- **Collection:** Supreme Court brief
- **Document type:** Transcript of Record
- **Published:** January 1, 1938
- **Citation:** 303 U.S. 197

## Text

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' fendant that Mr.

The objections to counsel’s questions will be noted by

° the respective counsel and passed upon by the Court at the
{fol. 3] trial of the cause. f

' Mr. Turtur: I object to the presence of Mr.. High here. -

Mr. Rudner: Mr. High is” Assistafit Superintendent . of
the Grasselli Chemical Company and is here to assist me
in the examination of the plaintiff.

‘The Commissioner: This question falls in the same c&te-

gory as that of the admission or rejection of evidence and
‘shall be noted on the Tecord for consideration. by the Court
at the trial.

Mr. Turtur: Its
as been the assistant superintend-
ent of the Grasselli Cheriical Company plant ‘for the past
fifteen years. 7

It is rioted for the record that the examination of George
Maty by the respective counsel is being made while hei is
lying in bed at his home.

[fol. 4] GEORGE Mary, the plaintiff, ied first duly sworn
according to law, on his — deposes and says:

Direet Peer ee Se

By Mr. Turtur:

- (The following examination was conducted i in the English
language: )

\ \

ee co
Except fhat in the summer you perspired more? —
. Sure, in the summer you take every five minutes your
shirt gets like water.
Q. Besides being the furnace man and cleaning these

‘POPOPOPOE

furnaces two or three times a wéek, did you do anything.

else?

A. No, just on. the anne, and dean the flues, that was
my job.

Q. During the time that you were working from 1928 on, ©

what «was the condition of the ener Were there -=
chemicals flying» around?

[fol.10] . Mr. Rudner: I object to that as leading. I think

- counsel should ask the witness what he saw without sug- -

gesting. ———_——
“Mr. Turtur: I will withdraw the question.

_ By Mr. Turtur:

Q. What were your working conditions around the fac-
tory, around that plant where you were working? Was it
clear? What was the atmosphere, if: you understand ?

By the Coniiniasenee: :

Q. Do you understand the question ?
A. I can’t understand it.

~ By Mr. Tartar:

Q. What was the condition of the air in the factory?

A. It was dust all the time.

Q. What kind of dust?

A. Soda ash.
_ Q. What was the product that you were » making at these
furnaces? What was the chemical that you were ne, at
these furnaces?

A. I was making silicate, glass or silicate.

Q. You say it was dusty?
A. Yes. :
Q. Was there a litle dust ora lot of dust? .

A. A lot of dust.

Q. Will you describe. it and tell us what you mean by a
lot of dust?

A. Because the tunnel upstairs what they carry soda ash
for me, it is all holes.

_ [fol.11] Q. The tunnel over and dines the furnace where
you ‘were working was all holes? |

A. And the chutes is holes, and when the soda ash stops
in the chute, we have to hit that chute and that soda is
dropped down and fall in every hole, and you have to run
away outside.

Q. The soda ash dropped ‘down? Would it drop down
where you were working?

A. Sure.

Q. Would that make a little dust or a lot of dust?

A. That makes a lot of dust because when it is dropped
down it is fall like water, one wheelbarrow or two fills up.
_.Q. From these holes? :

A. From these holes, yes.

Q. Is that where you were working?

A. Sure. |

Q. When this one wheelbarrow or two wheelbarrows of
dust would come. down, is this soda ash that you are talk-
ing about that was coming down on yout

A. Seda ash and sand.

Q. Was thgre anything in the ine by way of a fan

or exhaust‘ or anything to take out that dust?
A. There was nothing at.all; there is no fan, there is
nothing, just the factory with all holes, that’s all.
Q. Were there any windows around the plant? ©
A. There was only two windows, three windows on my
' gide, and we open. it, but that: dust comes back. and it slides
[fol. 12] like that.
Q. When the windows were open, the dust comes back to
where you were working? .
‘A. Sure, the wind turn it like this (indicating).
_ Q. How many hours a day did you work in that ash
department?
A. Eight hours. ~
_- Q. And during the eight hours was this dust present all
the time?

>

8

A. Sure, that is the same thing. .

Q. All-day long?

A. All day long, all day and night when they work, all
the day there is dust there.

, Q. Did-the company give you anything to put to inieed |

mouth so as not to breathe in this“dust?

A. No. ?

Q. Did they give you anything, or did po say anything
to you about being» careful about yourself? |

‘A. ‘No.

Q. Did anybody tell you that a dust was bad for you?

A No.
*Q. Are you sure of that?
A. Sure. . :

Q. From 1928 on how many months or years did you work
there before anything happened to you? r
A. Over two years. :
Q. Over two years?

A. Yes.

-—~t +

Q. Before we come to that, were there fan belts around ©

_near where you were working around furnace number one
and two?

. [fol.13] A. There was no fan.

Q: I mean these belts. ; .

A. Sure, we have a lot of belts, pulley and belts.

Q. Pulleys and belts?

“A, Yes.

Q. Were these pulleys and belts wide or narrow?

A. All kinds, wide like this and like this, all kinds, wide
_ (indicating).

Q. Was there a hole in the wall from where, {hese pulleys
were coming?

A. From the mixing room there was holes.

Q. How many holes were through the wall from. where

these pulleys were ve
A. Four pulleys.

Q. When these belts would go around, would that be the |

whole eight hours a day?

A. Sure, thase belts work all the time.

_ Q. When these belts go around and work all the time, did
that throw off any chemical of any kind?

. A. That is soda ash, all. dust all the time,

9

Q. Would that throw any. soda ash-6n ~~ towards where
you were working? :

A. Sure.

Q. Did you ever complain about that condition to any-
body ?

A. What do you mean? pats

Q: Did you ever complain about the condition of the
holes in the conveyors that threw this chemical on you and
[fol. 14] this dust coming off the pulleys that would be
thrown towards where you were working?

A. I can’t understand that.

(The question was- 4 by the interpreter in Slav-
ish.)

The Witness: I can’t aa that.
- (Im English.)

By Mr. Turtur:

Q. I mean did you tell anybody? .
_ A. I told the foreman.

Q. What was the foreman’s name?
._ A. Mike Benkovitch.

+ Q. Did you tell anybody else? .

A. The boss knows it, but I didn’t tell the boss ; I told only

the foreman, and the foreman told the boss.

Mr. Rudner: I move that that be stricken out as to what
the foreman told him.

_ Mr. Turtur: I insist that-the question be answered.on the.
_ ground that the foreman is'a boss within the meaning of
the cases, and that he is not a working man.

. Mr. Rudner: The witness has stated that ‘‘I told the
foreman’’, and I ask that everything beyond that be
(fol. 15] stricken out on the ground that it is hearsay, that

it is not proper to inquire or te have this witness state
what the foreman may or may not have told someone else.

. By.Mr. Turtur: ~~. | =

Q. Did you see anybody else besides Mr. Mike Suiie- ;
vitch? Do you remember Mr. Davis? ©
A. (The witness shook his head.)

.. Mr. Rudner : His answer was that he shook his ina as no.
The Witness: Us three boys comes one morning, and

-10°
we tell ea that these pulleys make a lot of dust, and

we have three or four inches every morning. on this side of
the wall. He say he cover up. those ‘pulleys, and he did;
he cover up and he put boxes on them but anfway there
was dust coming out.

By Mr. Turtur:.

._A.,Were there any doors or openings bétween the mix-—

ing room and the room. where you were wogking? .

A. There was a door opening when the man was working
shifting glass from here to stock or fromm st to water,
[fol. 16] these doors have to be open all the time

- Q. Those doors were open all the time?

_A. And the mixer.

Q. From the mixing room .was there any wind or draft

that came in from there? :
A. Sure, all soda ash so you could not see it sometimes.
Q. It was so heavy that you could not see it sometimes!
A. Yes, sure. —
' Q.- From 1928 to 1930 did they start to siemialintiaais any

_ other kind of a chemical within the department where -you ©
. were working, or if I am wrong about ~ eaten, will you. |
‘tell me as to years? - » |

A. We was working on old furnaces to 1930.

Q. By the old furnaces, you mean what number furnaces?

A. Number one and number two. In 1930 1 in March we
started to work on the new furnace.

Q. What was the number of the new fuimacet
- A. Number three.. |

Q. Was that near or far away from furnaces” numbers
one and two? © 2

A. About fifteen or twenty feet, not more.

Q. Was furnace number three also on a platform? |

A. That was higher than those furnaces.

Q. That was higher yet?

A. Yes. : 1

Q. Was it nearer to the ceiling of the tator? ‘near the
[fol. 17] roof of the factory?

A. Sare.

Q. When you started fo work in furnace number three
in 19 hundred and what?

A. 1930. ot

'Q. Was there any other. diam started to be mannu-

factured in that department?

satel PRET toe cers en wine oe entane STE REAR NOH SANDS RE TERRE NOUN SINT EN GIRONA e

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~~

ear ; 11

A. Not yet, just soda ash just the same.

Q. When you went to work there at furnace number three,
what was the condition as to the air‘where you were work-
ingt,

_A. It was dust just the same, sometimes more than num-
ber one and two.

Q. It was sometimes more than from furnaces numbers

one and two?

- A. Yes.

_ Q. Did that dust fall downward upon you or did it go out? —

A. It fall down from the tunnel and chute and holes. |

_ Q. Referring to the tunnel and the chute that you talk
about, is that the conveyor over and above the furnaces?

A. Yes, the conveyors and the chute:
Q. You said that there were hgjes in there?

Mr. Rudner: I object to any testimony with respect to
holes. It goes. beyond the scope of the pleading. There is
no suggestion in the complaint or in the bill of particulars
furnished with regard to any defeetive appliances or any
[fol. 18] holes or defects of any kind.

Mr. Turtur: In the complaint I said that there were de-
fective appliances, and that is part of the pleading, and
further than that, paragraph number five of the complaint
states that the negligence of the defendant consisted in this:
(a) in failing to provide the plaintiff with a safe place to
work; (b) in failing to provide the plaintiff with adequate
or sufficient protection or appliances or safeguards in the
said work; (c) ‘in failing to provide a proper ventilating

_. system in the plant.

Do you still make the objection? °

Mr. Rudner: Yes, I certainly object.

Mr. Turtur: Answer number three of thedill of particu-
lars is as follows:

‘Plaintiff was exposed and forced to inhale and breathe

the said metallic mineral, gas and or other injurious sub- -
st..aces as mentioned in numtber one during his employment —
[fol. 19] while performing the @perations in conformity to-

his duties.’’

Mr. Rudner: I press my objection on the ground that any
fhestions having as their object to show any defects are

not within the scope of the pleading or the bill of tpcreraa
f

12

By Mr. -Turturs 4

Q. Were there any holes in the conveyor over furnace
number three? .
A: It was in the chute and under the bottom.
| Q, Did the dust fall on you just the same?
ae A. Yes, fall ‘down and make all over smoke.

Q. What'kind of dust was this? | \
A. Soda ash and sand.
; Q° Did they give you any vetgeveten to work with in fur-

Trace number three ?*
> A. No, they just come over and they said “‘It is no good”’,.

and they fix that. — {
a : ~Mr. Rudner: I object ‘to that on the ground that4 it does .
not say specifically who said _ sat )
‘By Mr. Tartur: sre
Q. Who fixed that? - , oe
A. The man fixed that; I don’t know it was.
ed Q. .Who came over and looked at it anti said, “‘It is no .
. [fol. 20] good’: and had it fixed?
: _ A. Mr. Davis. _¢ fo
. Q. What was Mr. Davis’s job and what was his position?
A.,He had four plants under him; he was like a super-
_. ™ intendent.. . R
° Q. He was like a sdperintendent?

~—«@ A. Yes.
| Q. He-was higher than a foreman? —
A. Sure, higher than the boss. -
“% ; Q. And he had four departments under him?
fe Ve
Q. Was he -also the boss of the department where you
were working? ;
r). 8 A. Yes.
“. Q. Did Mr. Davis or anybody of the companiy come over
7 | and tell you that this dust, this chemical dust.of soda ash |
and sand, was bad for you or tell you to be careful in any

*. way? 7
7 pg Se
Q. Did you at any time know that this dust, the chemical -
« . dust, was bad for yout .
a A. No.
. ' Q. In 1930 you were sent over to work i in furnace number
on is that sof
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. A. Sure. “g a
Q. And you say that the condition of the cherhical dust *
was the same? : ae %
A. The same. . ,
Q. And you'said it was sometimes worse over there!
_ A. Yes. ‘ |
"Q. Were there any windows arouda furnace number 4
three?

. A. A lot of windows. | 2
(fol. 21] Q. Were they open or closed while yeas were work-
_ ing there? . %
A. Closed, no open. j
_ -Q. How many windows were _ Were they all open |
or just some?
A. Just some because some we cduld not reach to open.
Q. How many windows would you say, were open around 3
furnace number three? Were they near the furnace or far o
away from the furnace? :
A. Only two windows, so:we can open those. _
Q. Were-they near the furnace 0 or far away from the fur-
nace?
A. About fifteen feet.
Q. When those windows were open, would that take- put
the dust?
A. It only turn around in there (indicating).

Mr. Turtur: The witness indicates a ns condition.
~& - By Mr. Turtur: ted ie:

Q. Referring to this whirling condition that you. just: in- © |
dicated, was that around néar where you were working?

A. Sure, it was high there, and it turned around and come
from the bottom sometimes when it fails from the chute, and
on the chutes was no hammer.

Q. There were no hammers on the chutes at-that time?

A. No, not when we tart. :

(fol. 22]. Q. The chutes that you speak of aré the chutes ,
that go into the furnace?

A. It-goes in the feeders. "

Q. Were the hammers put on these chutes?-

A. About half a year when I start working. That will

‘take maybe around September or — 1931, they Pat -
_ the hammers on.

4 a to ne, oi

- Q. Before they put the hammers on in September and
October, 1931, did anybody have to hit those chutes with
the hammer?

A. We have to hit that with: a hammer. )

Q. And every time that you hit that ‘with the hammer,

A. It drops down, and the féeders are wider like the

: what would happen, if ee

x

chutes, and that soda,ash falls‘over me and then falls on
the floor and from the floor it goes way down the bottom

of the floor and comes up again all. over, everybody has
to run away. A lot of times those high men in there, the

superintendent, I don’t know what his name is, he used to

run away from there, too. When it falls everybody has
ta,run away, but I could not, because sometimes right that «=

-minute I change the firé, and T have to shut the fire on one

side and go on the other side, and I have to stay there.

.. Q. You have to stay there?

A, Sure, I could not leave.

Q. Were there any fans or exhausts of any kind to take
[fol. 23] out these chemical fumes? -

-A. No - | e os

Q. And this dust? conn el

A. No. |

QJ ust the ans

A. dust the windows.

.Q. How. were you up to 1930 when you started to work
on furnace number three? I mean how did you feel? Were

' ‘you all right or were you sick? | °

A. Well, I-feel a little bit sweet in my mouth, but every-

body says that everybody there is like that.

Mr. Rudner: I object to any statement ‘ani by snyesly

. else, and I move that it be stricken out.

Mt. Turtur; I consent to that. © , e

~ ‘By Mr..Turtur:

Q. George, you must not tell us what say buidy else said.

‘How did you feel? All right?

A. I feel all right. - =. .
“e
. ~ - ‘
SPOT, ICT EE ER PIS AIR OES CET AEN ER Nha eR pee eS ee ty mee eth . ~ ee eee Eee aod or Lae - =
- :

21

They’ gave us the order, and in that way we mixed it, and

then we make the order. That is called all kinds of silicate,
number forty and C. & P., all kinds of silicate, we call it .
mixed.

©

By Mr. Turtur:

Q. What were these caustics that they put into it? What
is the name of the caustic chemical that they put into it? —
[fol. 33] A. That is caustic. We don *t use all of it; just
when they want us.

Q. When you were mixing this, was that dusty, too,
around there?

A. There was no dust, just steam is hot, but in the factory.
it is all the time dusty when the factory was working.

Q. It is all the time dusty when the — was working?

A. Yes.

Q. You worked outside for three weeks anid then came and
worked on furnace number three again, and the same con- . jai
dition was there as to this dust 7 you spoke about?

A. Yes. a \y

Q. And it fell through the chute on yout et

A. Yes. ‘f

- Q. And this other dust came over from the silicate de-
partment on you?

A. The silicate came all the time because it is higher ove
there.
Q. Did that stuff go up or did it come down? |

A. That stuff is flying. They have a draft, and they put
a draft and it flies and goes out, and when it gets a little bit
warm the metasilicate gets heavy and it falls down.

Q. It falls down toward where you were working?

A. All th

.Q. How lon did you work there before anything else .
-happened to you?
- A. I don’t remember how many months.
-+[fol. 34] Q. Try to think. Don’t be in a hurry with your —
answer, but think. When you came back the second time,
‘ do you remember you said you were out for;twelve weeks?

A. Yes.

Q. Then you worked outside for three weeks until that pas.
carbuncle was pretty well healed, and they sent you back wee
to work in the soda ash department where they made silicate i. :
and soda ash at furnace number three? | 13a .

eon
>=s

“a é

7 >)

A. Yes.
Q. Is that so?
A.

Yes. —

Q. How long did you work there? F

A. Maybe about five oraix weeks, une that, y don *t remem-
ber, five or. six weeks.

Q. And then what happened? ore

A. It Was smoking at that time. : a.

Q. What do you mean smoking? 7 10

A. That dust all the time comes out.

Q. Why did you use the word smoke?

A. -I only: see the smoke because sometimes when it is.
foggy outside, everything stays in the shop, and you-cannot
see-from one end to the other end; it is all smoke. —

Q. The dust was so*heavy that you could not see——

Mr. ‘Rudner: -I object to counsel interpreting what he
says.

[fol. 35] By Mr. Turtur:

Q. Tell us what you mean by that.

' A. Well, those ‘times, the foggy days, the dust don’t go
out, so just everything is mixed in there, and it stays in
there, and it falls right on the ground and on you where you
are.

-Q.° What happened to you? You said you worked there
for maybe five or six — _ then what happened after
that?

A. Well, it started to itch iny hands.

Q. It started to itch your hands?

' A. Hands and ‘all over. the face. ©
Q. Were you perspiring around: that job, toot

©

going to do that?’ Eat

.Q. Do what? oa: :

A. ‘‘When are-you going to stop that sinless so it don’t
go away here? I don’t know what is the matter with my
hands, something itch me and‘I have to scrape myself and
everything, and my neck.”’

Q. You just indicated scratching, is that what you mean? |
_ A. Yes, spots come out, and I have to, scratch ‘myself. :

a" Q. What did he say?

‘A. He says, ‘‘Well, that’s right, it has got to be finished.”’
Q. -What mae te be finished?

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Pad
3

3

7
“A. Yes, and I told Mr. Davis again, whee: are yoy

—

A. Hy going to put the door and exhaust fans to make
it stop the hole so it would not be no dust nowhere. He
[fol. 36] said, ‘‘I am going to stop the mixer room, too.’” :
Q. What about the mixing room?
A. The soda ash come from mixing room all the time.
Q. Do you mean through these doors that were open?
A. ae these doors when they open, and if they shut
it, anyway the dust comes out on the sides or in the holes
where these boxes are on-the pulleys. .
Q. The dust came out from where the pulleys were?
A. Sure, because they can’t put that box on sheet iron,
because the sheet iron is one place lower and another place
high, and they just put the boxes up there, and the dust
comes out, and it flies all over.
Q. When was that? Do you remember what year?
A. That was 1931 when I come from the hospital.
Q. You said you were out until October, 19311
A. Yes. | S
_Q.°Then you worked for three weeks? .
A. Outside. :
Q; And after the three weeks you came back again?
A. Yes, but I don’t remember how many weeks, I guess
five or six, maybe more or less, ro as
Q. Within five or six weeks after October, 1931, you say
you got this itch, and you had this other conversation with
Mr. Davis? ‘_«
A. Yes. ; , PS Rica
Q. And then when you got this itch, what else happened ia *
{fol. 37] to you, if anything? f ‘,"
A. I got sick; I got cough, cold, fever, and cold sweats, oy
and I am sweating and cold. -s '
Q. You are sweating and coldt . _ |
A. Yes, and then at night time, if I was working at any -
time, and when I was sleeping, I get fever, and I get it in ©
my mouth, and I have to wash it out, and sometimes my

wife— at
Q. You are indicating what? Why did you wash your - ee"
mouth? , os |
A. It is sweet and sour, all kinds of taste in the mouth, ae

and I was coughing: : | 78
Q. You were coughing?.
A. Yes, a little bit I got all the time, and I think ‘‘ What

is the matter with met’? Sometimes I got no breath, I

can’t breathe. : ;

Q. You are short.of breath?

A. Yes.
. Q. You could not breathe?

A. No.

Q. Was there anything else tat you felt?

A. Sure, I lost weight.

Q. You started to lose weight? 3 :

A. Yes, I started to lose weight, and I lose my strength.
and I was weak and I get weaker all the time.

Q. That was during the time that ‘you had this itch?

A. Yes.

Q. According to what you said, that would be about No-
vember or December, 1931?

A. Yes, I told once the doctor. _. :

Q. What doctor? ~o
- A. Doctor Ward.
(fol. 38] Q. Is that the plant doctor?

‘A. The plant doctor. I told him everything about that,
and Mrs. Ludwig, they look at it.

Q. Who is Mrs. Ludwig? | |

A. The nurse, and they says, “George, you are sick because
you got that skin all over with the itch, and that is why you
are sick. You look like you are just thinking you are sick.’’
Well, I don’t think so, because I can’t eat, and I lose weight.

; Well, that is all there was on that, and I went back to work:

Q. Did you tell them of those other things that you felt?
Did you tell the doctor?

A. I don’t tell that doctor no more beckuse he said I am
just thinking about the sickness from that iteh, and that i is

why I am like that.

Q. You felt all those things that you said ‘Melons
A. Yes, and I went back to work in 32.

Q. Where?
A. In the plant. They was tréating me for seven or eight
months; and they see they co ot-cure me.

Q. You had this itch for how long ee you went back
to work? 7
A. I had that itch for at least two or three years, two .

years, it never get clear.

Q. You said that you got this itch sometime in November

(fol. 39] or December, 1931, and you started to cough? :

A. Yes.
Q. And you said that you started to get short of breath
and all th 4 -things that you spoke about?

ete pee Ee Ce ne

A. Yes. wees ee te

Q. When you went back to Doctor Ward at the plant, and
you told him these things, and he said that you just think. oy
about this because you got the itch, how long was ‘that be- Y.
fore you went back to work, if you camyemember? Do you _ :
understand me?

( The interpreter repeated the (aéstion in Slavish. )

The Witness, (in English): Aboyt seven weeks.
By Mr. Turtar:
Q. Then when did you go dack to work?
A~ After seven weeks I went to the doctor.
Q. What doctor? .
A.. To the company doctor.
2 You mean to the yame Doctor Ward at the plant?

A. Sure, and Mr. High es over down the hospital and ;
he says, ‘‘George,. co ‘on-and work, we going to give

you a job not over there.’’ I says, ‘‘I can’t, because I ain’t- ¥
‘got no skin around here yet ( — Pr &
. [fol.40] Q. Around where? — .
A. Under my arms. . . eee.

Q. What was the matter with you? What did you have -o

under your arms? ~
A. There was no ‘skin, just sore and thick swelling up, and

the water was coming out. » ,

The water was coming out of your skin? 2 tee la tn

Yes, yellow water. )

Do you know what that was?

No.

Did it smell good or bad?

. It didn’t smell. — . _-
Did it smell no good? hs ; yc ee

No smell. ais
Q. Mr. High said to you, “Come on, George, you go to

work?’’ ct
A. No. -_ > “ety
' Q. What did he say?’ . . fa
*A. I says, ‘‘I can’t.’’ He says, “Well, come onin the ~~ ©)

bathroom and shpw me how it is.’’ I went to the bathroom

with the doctor and Mr. High, and I show them, and the

doctor says to Mr. High, ‘‘Let him alone with the doctor

until he _— a little bit skin yet, and then he come back to: ~

OPOPOoPpore’

were

26 :
Q. Then what did Mr. High do and what did he say? |
A. Nothing.
Q. Did he leave you alone?

A. He leave me alone; I was home yet for. a week.

Q. Do you remember what month that was in 1932? Did
you get compensation then?

A. I-got my own insurance first, and rae Mr. High called
[fol. 41] me up about my compensation, and I have to give |
him money to pay my own insurance. ;

Q. You say you got a proposition or compensation 1

Mr. Rudner: I object to that sort of testimony as irrele-.
vant, incompetent and immaterial with respect.to the issues
in this case. All we are interested in are the facts respect-
ing this man’s working conditions inthe plant, and anything
in regard to the question of compensation is incompetent,
irrelevant and immaterial.

Mr. Turtur: I press the question | on the veil that it
shows a corroborating element that he received workmen’s
compensation under-the Workmen’s Compensation Act for
this skin ailment, which will be proved by the records of the
Department af Labor.

_ : Mr. Rudner: I make a bitten objection that itis incom-
_ petent, irrelevant and immaterial and that it-is a. subject
matter which was taken care of by the Compensation Laws
[fol. 42] of the State. of New J ersey, and it cannot be in-
volved in this proceeding, which is at common law. In other
‘ words, if Mr. Maty‘had an ailment or injury which was com-
pensable at that time by the Workmen’s Compensation Act,
it is not something which can be the subject matter of this .
case, which is predicated _— —_ under common
law. e

| Mr. Turtur: I press the aueuliies on the further ey to’
_ Show the condition of the plaintiff’s skin at the time and to
show that he, did not work or uld not work and to further -
_ show that by reason of the condition from which he was suf-
fering, the conversation just referred to by Mr. Maty as be- —

tween Mr. High, the Assistant Superintendent, and the plant
physician, i is very relevant and ' very —— to this‘ ‘issue.

_ [fol. 43] - By Mr. Tartur: ogee,
‘yea Q. After this conversation with Mr. igh th plant —
; doctor, what did you do? roge | ras

4 time?.

Or OPOPeror

27

' A. I was working half time because the itch was itch-

ing me.

Q. Where did you —_" when you worked only ‘half

_A. In the silicate department I was sweeping | outside and
I was picking up papets, and I was sweeping upstairs.

_Q. When you were’sweeping upstairs and in the silicate
department, was there any dust there, too?

'A.-There is dust.

~ Q. Did they give you any respirator ?

A. No. -

Q. _ anybody tell you to be careful about that dust?

A. No.

Q. What kind of: dust was that in the silicate depart-
ment? .- . 4
It is metasilicate. ‘
Anything else?

And sodaash. —..

Did you breathe that in?

Sure, if you work there. .
-You worked, at that eight hours a day? °
. I was working that time ten hours a day.
Do you remember when that was?
. That was seven weeks after I got it.
. Just listen/ George, and maybe I can help you. You
said you went back to work ‘about ne, 1931? Do -”

remember saying that?

A. Yes. -
[fol. 44] Q. Then you went back.to ak, you say, ary you
started to work outside, and then you came back to work
after three weeks working outside, and you were put back
on the furnace, and then you worked on the furnace for

‘how long? Do you remember?

‘A. That’s what I don’t remember.
Q. You said at least five or six weeks?
_A. Five or six weeks.
Q. ‘That would be around November or December, 1931?
‘A. Yes.
Q. That is, the time you said you got the itch?
. ee
Q. And then. you started to feel all those things which
yousaid before, is that right?
A. Yes."

ORION I sa oot,

0 te gr ae.

eB |
_ Q. You told that. to the doctor, and the doctor told
you that it is because you got the itch, that is why you
think you are sick, is that right?

- A. Yes.

Q: Does that make you remember about when that was
as to the time of the year in 1932?

A. No. ee
3 6. You don’t remember the exact time of the year?

A. No, I don’t remember exactly.

Q. As to that timet 7

A. HO. -

Q. How long were you out with this itch? ie

A. That’s what I say, sometime I was working, and

sometime I was not wogking, I could not tell you because

_[fol. 45] I ain’t got the time on paper how many times

I have to stay home and how many times I could go to
work. They was treating me seven or eight months, and
they see they could not treat me, and they put me on the
skin specialist doctor.

Q. For seven or eight months they could not treat you
at the plant?

A. Yes.

Q. So they put you under the skin specialist, is that
right?

A. Yes. .

Q. Who was this skin specialist? Do you know?

A. Oleynick, from Elizabeth.
. Doctor Oleynick treated you?
. Yes.
Do you remember when that was?
. That was in the winter time.
In the winter of what year?
. I think it was in 1932.
In the winter of 1932?
: Yes.
. For how long did Doctor Oleynick treat you and for
what?

A. He treat me for x skin and my itch, and that is

OPOoPopPopOop-.

‘nine weeks.

‘Q. How was your cough by this time, and how was
your breathing, and your weight, and your appetite, and

-how was your sleep and your chills and fevers?

A. All the time worser, all the time it comes worser and
[fol. 46] worser; I think it was from that itch.

- ied eee 2 aEsity = pest - is

fe me | 33

{fol. 52] Q. It was the last of October or the first of No- .

vember of 1933? -

A. 1933. The first thing he takes a big pump and he
tried to take my blapd, and he could not take no blood out.
-Then he let me fm the room where the nurse is, I don’t
- know what he got there,.a box, and he come back and says,
‘‘Well, George, I am going to look you all dver, something
- the matter with you.’’ and he was looking me all over.

.Mr. Rudner: I object to any conversation he hdd with °

- the doctor. ;

Mr. Turtur: This is the doctor hired by the company for
the purpose of giving him a physical examination and the
statements that were made to him at the time of the examin-

tion. -

i Mr. Rudner: I jet on the ground that. the statement
_ should be made by the physician himself. The witness can-
not attempt to testify regarding. the examination by the
physician. The only person who can testify particularly
to that fact is. the physician himself.

[fol. 53] Mr. Turtur: I disagree with my learned adver-
. sary in that the physician was not one that was hired by
us but was hired by the respondent company who was mak-
ing a physical examination of the plaintiff, and amy con-

versation between the plaintiff and the physician is admis- |

sible evidence on the ground that the physician was not our

agent but rather the authorized agent of the defendant.

company.

Mr. Rudner: I further object on the ground that the
‘question to be decided in this case is the alleged negligence

with respect to the operation of the plant, and that it has
no- relation to any treatment given by any physician to
Mr. Maty, and that any conversation or statement made
by the physician would only go to the condition of health of
Mr. Maty, and that can be. testified to only by the physician
himself.
{fol.54] Mr. Turtur: This i is not a question of treatment
as given by the physician at the plant, but it goes to the
question of what the physician did and what he said as the
result of the examination.

Mr. Rudner: I still object further on the ground that it
is not competent and that it is beyond the issues in this
-case, that it does not come within the scope of the —

3378

_, counsel has already objected. |

. 6

v

and that this is not a matter which could be offered to this
particular witness, and further, that it cannot be binding
on the defendant company. iis

.Mr. Turtur: I say that. it is binding on the defendant

company in that this was a physician not hired by us, but

hired by the respondent company, and anything that he
did or said is binding on the company as being within the
purview of his authority as a physician. :

By Mr. Turtur: Se
Q. What did he say and what did he do?

[fol. 55] Mr. Rudner: I want mm objection as heretofore -

noted with respect to the previous question to carry over
to the very question now propounded, ‘‘What did he say.”’

Mr. Turtur: The questioy now propounded is not in-
tended to be another question than the one before to which

an
&

By Mr. Turtur: : | ene
Q. What did he do, and what did he say? ~~ ;

A. He was looking all over me and he put the fingers here ©
_° (indicating), and he says to cough.: Bos ;
Q. You_are now indicating the private region, the groin? .

A./ He says, ‘‘Cough, George,’’ and he says, “‘George,
you better watch out, you got two rings on your side. Is
it sore?”’ I said, ‘‘I don’t feel sore because my whole-skin

swelled with that itch, I don’t feel it.” He said, ‘“You

watch yourself, don’t lift’so much because you will get a

hernia.’’ Then he hit me in the back like that and he say%,
_ ‘*You are all over all right, you look like a good man.”’ I

says, ‘‘Mr. Doctor, I ain’t all right, E told you everything
[fol. 56] about it. What is the matter with me?’’:
‘ Q. What did yon tell the dector? ?

Mr. Rudner: I make the same objection to that question

_ just propounded that.I made before with respect to ‘the
- previous question on the samé grounds that I heretofore

urged in my previous objection.

Mr. Turtur: I urge thé same reason for propounding the
question as heretofore made in’ the ‘previous question for

_. propounding the same. -

+ \
: LZ

34 | | |

|

?
. By Mr. Turtur: | | a ;
Q. Do you want a little rest? —
A. No. . | tase Pa.
Q. What did you tell this doctor? Tell us everything.
A. J told the doctor I am sick, and he says, ‘‘ What is the
matter? You don’t look like sick man.’’ I says, ‘‘I got a
cold and sweating in the night times, and I can’t sleep be-~
_ eause I got fever at night, and around my mouth some-
thing comes out bad, but I don’t taste; I don’t know how
it tastes, sweet and sour, and all kinds of taste.’’ ‘He says,
‘“What else?”’ I says, ‘‘Well,-I lose some weight, I lose
(fol. 57] my strength and getting weak because I can’t
eat. I ain’t got no appetite.’’ He just looked at me and
says, ‘‘ What elsef’’ I says, ‘‘I told you I got fevers again,
night fevers, and if I lay down in the bed, I start -to get
fevers and get cold and it shakes me up, and I got ‘short
breath.”’ ;
Q. You got a shortness of your breath? = ,
A. Yes, and over here it hurts me all the time (indicat-
ing). Sometimes it pains me over there (indieating). oe ae
Q. You are indicating the right side of the chest and the ;
right side of the back in the upper region? :
_ A. Yes, and neck. Then he says, “*What else?’’ I says,
‘“Well, the cough all the time getting worser and I am los- ~
ing weight all the time and getting weaker, and sometimes,
a lot pf times, I get weaker, and a jot of times,—I don’t
know how to say it—it is coming cold and comes like pim-
ples on me ‘and shake me, but it is hot.’’ He says, ‘* All:
right, is that all?’’ I says, ‘‘No, not yet, something comes
up and [ sneeze all the time like that.’’ He says, ‘‘Is ‘that:
all?’ I says, *‘Yes.’? He says, ‘‘You are erazy. What
do you think, George, do you think you have some of that
[fol. 58] chemical stuff in yourself ?’’
, Q. The doctor said, ‘‘George, what do you think——”’ .

Mr. Rudner: I object to that statement and to that ques- ~ . /
tion on the same ground heretofore urged with respect to
the previous questions. :
Mr. Turtur: I urge the same re-son for my question as
- now propounded as heretofore made wherein Mr. Rudner
objects to the question. . Nt Boban
; By Mr. Turtur: ° Taree. Megs e.
Q. The doctor said what?

»

36

Fe ree eee a meen eatin
.
td . .

A. The doctor said, ‘‘Do you think you have some of that

_ chemical stuff in yourself?’’ I says, ‘‘I think maybe I have,

maybe, I don’t know, but I am sick, that’s what I told you,

‘and that is right, and you can see I am getting lower all the

time.’’ He says, ‘‘George,. you are crazy. If you had some .
of that chemical stuff in you some place in your chest or
some place else or in your stomach, you will be dead, you
will die right away.’’ That was all.

Q. Then you continued to work?

A. Then I went to work and continued by it.
[fol.59] Q. You continued to have the itch?

A. Yes, but I could not walk with the itch around here
(indicating), and I went to the doctor and shew him.

Q. You are indicating where? You had the itch where?

A. In the middle of the legs and all over the balls, and I
could not walk. They I went to the doctor, and I says——

Mr. Rudner: I object. . -&

The Witness (Continuing): To that new one, raf | ‘calf
work no more, pfit me where you want, put me on the spe-
cialist ‘again.”’

By Mr. Turtur: .

. Q. Before we come to that, be? pre you : could not work
anymore, when this doctor said sornething about chemicals,

did you take a sample of any of the chemicals? :

A. Sure.

Q. When did you take the samples?.

A. When I went back to work and I was working on the
dump cars, and I was thinking ——

Mr. Rudner: I object to that.

‘By Mr. Turtur: -

Q. You took some chemical samples?

A. Samples, same that day. |

Q. Did you take samples from every place wherd you
worked?

A. No, I didn’t take no samples from the phosphate be-
[fol. 60] cause I didn’t get sick in the —

Q. Yon did not take any phosphate?

A. No. a

Q. I show you some samples and ask you if those are
the samples that you took? ~

ee)

37

A. Yes. : “nee

Q. Did you take this white powder in this package?

A. Sure, there is more.

Q. Wait a minute, please. Did you. -take this greenish
rock formation?

v

A. Sure.
Q. It is in this brown bag? ,
A. Yes. -
Q. Do you know what this is (indicating}? |
A. That is glass, they make silicate from this. | |
Q. You make silicate from this? — | ape el
A. That makes water. { ‘.
Q.- This white powder is ar er I showed you first? ———-_______ ;
A. I gave you two powders. = aes
- Q. What is this (indicating)? eas, : =
A. This must be metasilicate. : mene:
Q. Did you take this (indicating) ?
A. That is silicate from that glass. x

- Q. This is silicate from that glass as shown you in the
second one? :
A. Yes.
Q. Did you take this (indicating) ? |
- A. That is silicate.

nary a a are 2 ye
y read ag

NL
3

40 4

Q. Is-that when you gave me the rest of the samples that
are marked ini evidence? | :

A. All.samples.

Q. Do you want a little rest, George?

A. No. od ‘

Q. You said you stopped working in November, the latter
part of November, 1933, is that right?

‘A. Yes. . |

Q. How did you feel when you were working?

The Commissioner: We will take a recess at this time.

(A brief recess was had.)

_By Mr. Turtur:

Q. George, I show you a picture apd ask you if that repre-
ol. 65] sents you in that photograph. Is that you?

A. Sure, that’s me. . é

Q. Whemwas that picture taken? . é

A. Chriétmas, 1928.

Q. Were you working for the Grasselli Chemical Com-

“pany then? °

Q. Who else is on that picture

A. My wife. |

Mr. Rudner: I object to that as highly improper.

Mr. Turtur, I offer the picture in evidence. ul

Mr. Ryder: I object to it on the ground that it contains
pergefis other than the plaintiff. It contains persons whom
the witness himself could not testify about in this particular
case. The picture of the plaintiff himself would not be ob-
jectionable, but the picture in its. present form is objec-
tionable. aE ¥: ahs.

Mr. Turtur: I offer the-picture to show the condition of
the plaintiff as of December, 1928, and it is immaterial as
to who the rest of the people are. However, to satisfy the
objection of my adversary as to the rest of the people, I

A. I was working already. le
ith you?

. [fol. 66] will now ask the plaintiff who the rest of the people

are in the said picture so as to have them properly identified. ©

Mr. Rudner: I object to that question and the previous
question. I do not object to Mr. Maty’s picture by itself
being offered inevidence, but I do object to a group picture
under the circumstances of the case of persons other than
the plaintiff, particularly with regard-to the persons who

do appear in that picture.

Mr. Turtur: I press my offer.

The Commissioner: I think it would be better to offer the
picture for identification and to let thda/Judge rule.

Mr. Turtur: As I understand it, my adversary does not
object to the picture as to Mr. Maty himself. I offer it in
evidence, and I understand you have no objection.to the
offer, if it will only show the picture of Mr. Maty.

Mr. Rudner: If a paper is pasted over every one of these.
[fol. 67] people except Mr. Maty I won’t object to’ it, but.

until that is done, I object to the offer.

Mr. Turtur: I consent, and I promise my adversary that
before the same will be shown to the Court or jury, a paper
will be pasted over the other persons in the photograph other
than Mr. Maty.:

The Commissioner: Mark it for identification, and you
can renew your offer at the trial.

Mr. Turtur: There is no objection to the evidence as to
Mr. Maty, and I consent now to overcome his objection.

(The photograph referred to .was marked ‘‘Plaintiff’s
— 8 for identification’’. ). 7

By Mr. Turtur : \ | ¥

_ Q. In the latter part of hivusiein, 1933, when you stopped
working at the Grasselli Chemical Company, how weve you
feeling? Why did you stop working? « ;

. A. I was feeling sick, and I stopped work from my itch, so

I could not walk. -

[fol. 68] Q. You could not walk or you could not work?
A. Not work, and not walk; inside of the house | could

not walk.

Q. How did you feel with reference to your other things
that you testified about?

A. I was sick-all over, everything is bad, getting weaker,

and ‘that’s why I left the job.

Q. Do you know how much you weahiti in 1928 when you |

started to work for the Grasselli Chemical Company?

A. .I weighed 152 or 154.

Q. How much did you weighs in November, ‘1933, when
you could not work anymore?

A. I guess 139, 141, like that.

Q. To whom did’ you talk in November, the latter part of
1933, when you say you could not work anymore because
you were feeling sick all over? ,

a

Nore

42

‘. The company doctor.
~ Q. You remember the company doctor’s name?
A. I don’t know his fame; he is not here now. He is in

‘

. the plant now.

Q. You think he is in the plant yet? -
A. Yes, I think he is in the plant. ;

Q. You have not been — since November, 1933, have

you?

A. I was not. :
[fol. 69] Q. Then you hon a know etiwihes the company,
doctor is still there, do you?

A. No. : |

Q. Did you speak to anybody else?

A. No, because the”doctor called Mr. High, ‘“What

we going to do with George Maty?’’ ‘‘We have to put him
under special doctor.’’

Q. Was that conversation in your presence? Did he talk
to Mr. High over the telephone?

“A. Over the telephone to the office.

Q. Did you hear the doctor talk? )

A. He talk, but I don’t know what he said.

Q. I mean, did you hear the doctor talk?

A. Sure.

.
: 4
~
'

Q. What did the doctor say to this other person at the

other end? —

A. Well, that is all what I know, what he telepho to
Mr. High, ‘‘George Maty come over here and he says
ain’t going to work no more, he can’t go to*work. What
are we going to do with him?’’ That is all what I know.

Q. What happened after that?

A. They put me under the special doctor.

Q. What special doctor?

A. Mr. Oleynick again.

Q. You mean Doctor Oleynick? .

A. Yes. ©
Q. ‘For how long were you under the care. of the doctor?
‘A. To 28th of January.

[fol. 70] Q. To 1934?

A. 1934. ne .

Q. What happened on the 28th of January, 1934?

A. They sent me back to the company.

Q. He sent you back to the company?

_ A. Yes.
Q. Who sent you back? — -

43

A. Mr. Oleynick. He says, “You can go to work now.”’

Q. Before Doctor Oleynick said that you could go to
work now, why did you take those samples of chemicals
. in. November, 19331 _

Mr. Rudner: I object to that as incompetent, irrelevant
and immaterial other than the fact that he took these
samples. Anything beyond that is a mental state of mind
and involves mental processes which are not allowed in
this particular case. We deal with facts and not “with

thoughts.
Mr. Turtur: I will withdraw the question.
By Mr. Tartar: _

Q. In January, 1934, you said you spoke to Mr. High and
‘that the doctor sent -you back to Doctor Oleynick’ and he
said you could work?

A. He said I could work.

Q. How did you feel in January, 1934?

A. I don’t feel good, but he says, ‘‘You going to get
better’’, and he gave me prescription, and I buy this salve

- [fol. 71] right here in Linden, and the company give me the

money back for it. °

Q. The company gave you the money back for it?

A. Yes. '

Q. How did you feel! Tell us how you felt when you
went back? oy eee

A. Sick all the time.

Q. What were some of ihe ‘things that were wrong
with ‘you?
_ A. The most ‘was I was coughing all the time, I can’t

eat, getting weaker. I don’t know what is the matter with
me. I was sick all over. Everything was the matter.

Q. Did you feel any of those things that you testified
you told Doctor Ward?

A. What do you mean? —

Q. I mean all those things that you said before.

_A. Sure, I feel them worse..

Q. You feel all those = worse?

A. Worser.: |

” Q. The doctor said “Jou can go i. work an", and he
gave you a — and you filled it? —

A. Yes.-

Q. Did you go to the — then? JC

a RS eee sermon: -
.

44

A. I went to the company hospital to see the doctor,
and the doctor says, ‘‘ Weil, George, I ain’t got nothing-
to do for you; go and see Mr. High.’’

- Q. Did you go to see Mr. High? :

_ A. I went up in the office and see Mr. High.

[fol. 72] . Mr. High is that gentleman sitting in this
room now, the Assistant Superintendent (indicating) ?

A. Sure. | j

Q. What did Mr. High do or say when you went to
see him? What did pm say to him and what did he
say to you?

‘A. I went in there, Good morning’’. ‘*Hello, George.

_ Mr. Oleynick says——

Q. Do you mean Doctor Oleynick? _ 5
_A. Yes. ‘‘He says you are well, and here is the money
for your hand, compensation, and that’s all, we are

_ through.’’ I says, ‘‘How am I well? Look, here is a pre-

scription. You.have give me the money what I got just for
the salve.’’ He said, ‘‘You are well?’’ I said, ‘‘No, I
don’t want no money; you get me ail well, and then I take
my money and I go to work:’’ He says, “Well, it is up to
you.”’ I said, ‘*You give me new compensation?”? . ‘*“No,
you won’t get no compensation now; if you take for the

hand, then I will give you compensation.

Q. "What was the matter with sel hand?
A. It was twisted. —
Q. Did you make any demand for money for that twist-

ing of the hand? — ( |

[fol.73] A. He give me $115.

Q. When you indicated before, you indicated the wriat -

of your left hand, is that so?

A. Yes.

Q. What else was said by Mr. Hight What did he do
about your job? Did he want to give you work?

A. He says he won’t give me no work. I says, ‘‘Mr:
High, if I take this. money, I am well, I want to cure my-
self. It looks like I got a hernia. What am I going to
do?. He said, ‘‘ Well, you can get operation. You go up to
Mr. —’’ some little fellow with:a little moustache——

Q. What job did he have? A. He was doctor at the
plant, but he was in the plant for a little while, Doctor

Franklin.
Q. He told you to go to Doctor: Franklin? Mr. High

told you to go to Doctor Franklin?

| ; ; . i pis

A. ‘Go to. Doctor Franklin, and he will make you oper-
ation.cheap and he send you now to General Hospital.’’

Q. Did you say anything further to Mr. High about your ©
|. job and did he say anything further to you when you
talked to him?

A. No, he. didn’t say nothing: he just says, “You ain't. _
got no job here in the summer because the itch going to

tch you.’’

— he say from what the itch was going to catch

re Worse and worse, the itch going’ to catch me.

[fol. 74] Q. Did he say from what the itch was going to
catch you worse and worse?

A. Around the chemicals i in the summer, and I itch when
it comes on.

Q. He said that around the ou your itch is going
to get worse? ,

A. Yes.

Q. What else was said by you and by him? :

A. Then I didn’t say nothing; I didn’t: take no money, -
and I went home.

Q. When you came home, that. was in J anuary, 1934?

A. I came home in January 29, and I was in his =
about the first of February.

Q. Iam not talking about 29, I am talking about January,
1934.

A. 34, yes.

Q. Do you mean January 29th, 1934? :
| .A. Yes, and then maybe the first of February I was down _
in the office.

Q. Did Mr. High promise you that he would give you
a job later on?
on I din’t take no money until the 18th of April, and
eo went in there because I didn’t have no money, and
was, curing myself.

»
a

Mr. Rudner: I object to that and ask that it be stricken
- out, that he had no money. That is improper and irrevelant
and incompetent in this case, and it is not a statement as
| [fol. 75] between him and——
Mr. Turtur: I think that ought to be stricken as to

having no money.

“The Witness: I went after money for my hand, and
Mr. High says, ‘‘well, George——”’ ac ee

46 | :
| By Mr.-Turtur:

—6Q. ‘aVhen was that? When did you go for the money?

A. 18th April, I know the date.

Q. 19347 |

A. 1934; I took the money, and i: was sitting on one
side of the table, and Mr. High was sitting on the other
side of the table, and he said, ‘‘Well, George, when you
get well and you get your abscess out, come around in the
winter-time, and we will give you a job. »? I don’t say I
want a job or nothing, just I went home. Then I went to
Newark to ‘the state doctors, and I told Mr. Leggett (7),
and they don’t want to cure me, they give me nothing. Some
fellow from Delaware, he went to the state doctor in
Elizabeth, and he.says—

Mr. Rudner: ‘I object to that. |

‘By Mr. Turtur

Q. You went to the state doctor in Elizabeth? He said
what? Who are you speaking about?

A. The doctor and Mr. High.

_ [fol. 76] Q. -Was*Mr. High there when the , doetor spoke
to you?

A. Sure, and that fellow from Delaware. |

_Q. Whom did the fellow froni Delaware represent?

A. I don’t know; Mr. ‘High says he is same fellow like
him. - |

Q. You don’t — who this other gentleman was!

A. No.

Q. Who told you that thjg gentleman was from Dela-

ware?
| A. The doctor was askin? who is that fellow, and Mr.

igh says, ‘‘He is same fellow as me from Delaware”.
‘That is all what I hear.

Q. As a result of the conversation ‘with the doctor on
the 18th. of April, what happened between you and Mr.
High?

A. Well, nothing, because I wanted the ae to, cure
/ ‘me dnd give me.compensation. - .

' Q. From there on did you get better or worse?

A. [ was'treating myself and the itch was. getting badder
and around here getting worse (indicating)...

Q. You mean around your testicles?

a 7 gang - ——

47

A. Around my testicles and my body and hernia getting
weaker and weaker. |

Q. You mean yourhernia? 4

’ A. Yes.

Q. What else was getting weaker ond weaker?

[fol. 764%] A. I was myself getting weaker and weaker be-
cause I could not eat, nig not breathe, I could not °

do nothing.
Q. How about your cough?

A. Coughing all the time, worser; all the time hgevy
breathing comes out shorter.

Q. When did your hernia finally come out?

A. When I was under Doctor Oleynick.

Q. That was in January, 1934? »

A. January, 1934, yes.

Q. You say that your hernia came out in January, 19341

A. I am worser.

Q.:in January, 1934, where did you go 9 and what for?

A. I was treating myself for the itch, and my skin was
thick all around here, and I am sick from that and from
my rupture, and I am going to get it out anyway, and
I have to get it out, I am not going to live with that, and
then I went to the hospital, and he gave me operation.

Q. To what hospital did you go?.

A. The Alexian Brother’s Hospital in Elizabeth.

Q. And they operated on you there for what?

A. On the rupture.

Q. For.the hernia?

A. Yes.

Q. How long were you in the s hospital

A. I was in there for seve days and I come back.
[fol:77] Q. When you went 16th the hospital were you still
feeling the same way that you spoke about, this condition of
coughing, weakened condition, sleeplessness and everything
else that you spoke about before? Did you have the cough
when you went to the hospital?

A. Sure, same way.

Q. Are you sure of that?

A. Sure.

_ Q. How long did you remain in the hospital?

‘A: I was in there seventeen days.

Q. Then what did you do? )

.A. I come home, and I was home for three days sitting
outside, and somé fellows over here and my wife was

48 | | |
. sitting by me and just something I started to cough, and

something come out and down and up and down and up
and I started to throw up a lot of bad things.

_ Q. Do you mean spitt. _ -

A. Spit, the first time ¥e]low stuff went out, and then.
went out white stuff, and just the same come out all

. the time.” ;

Q. That was twenty days after’ you were operated that.

this stuff started to come out from yout

A. Yes.

Q. And ever since the twenty days after you were ad-
mitted to the hospital in Jane, 1934, have you been spit-
ting this stuff? —

A. Every day, every half hour. ;

Q. And how much of that stuff do you spit a day?
[fol. 78]. A. About a pint every |

Q. One pint a day? —

A. Yes.

Q. Did you go back to the hospital?

A. I was because I don’t know what is the matter, I
started to throw that out, and on Monday I went back

- to the hospital, and they took a picture of me.

Q. You mean x-rays?

A. Yes, x-rays.

Q. How many x-rays did they take?

A. They only take one first. ,

Q. After that did they take some more x-rays?

A. Sure. -

Q. When? @ .

A. They took shout. six, Dr. Schilling took pictures of
me because I was under Doctor Schilling about five days.
Now this year when-I went to doctor he took six of me
now.

Q: Doctor Schilling is the man that treated you at your

. home?

A. Yes. . ,

Q. How | did Doctor Schilling treat you?

A. First time he treat me three weeks and Dates Steel
from Linden. Wy

Q. And then Doctor Schilling treated you for fourteen
months?

A.. Yes.

bes _ day or — week?

]

Pe 49

oe

A. Every week he come to the house and give me.medi-
cine—not medicine, but he gives me prescription.

[fol 79] Q. Do you know how much ch you paid Doctor

Schilling?
A. Sure, I know how many weeks because when I was in

Q.

A. I know.

Q.
A.

Q.

- the hospital, I don’t count that.

How much did you pay for the —

How much?
In New York——___-
Not in New York, but I mean the Abeiies Brother’ s

Hospital in Elizabeth? . e
A. $69.

Q.

That is for the operation and the hernia?

A. Yes.

Q.
A.

Q.

Do you know how much it was for your x-rays?
That is the picture, no, for one x-ray in that time.
Was it the Memorial Hospital i in New York that you ©

went to after a while?

A.
v4

Q.

perprers|

rPOrOPOoPOopY

-19 hundred and what?
. 35.

Yes, it was fifteen days.

And that was. $69. .

A.. $67 in the Memorial Hospital.

‘Do you know how much it was at the Alexian Broth-

er’s Hospital?

. $69. I don’t pay all yet. That i is only for one x-ray.
Do you know how mae you = Doctor Schilling? |

. I kfiow. , | P
How much?

Fifty-seven weeks, that makes——
How much a week? - :

. $3 a week and five pictures.

Five x-rays?

. Yes, he was Jooking at me and he charged me $5.
. [fol. 80] Q. There were five x-rays, and it was how much
for one x-ray?

Five dollars. ‘ .
(fol. 81] Q.- You never got up since last September?
A. No. .
Q. Did you go to the hospital again?

. A. I was in the hospital; it was too heavy on me and
Doctor Schilling took m€ for operation. He took me in .-
hospital for operation. .

Q. How long did you stay at the hospital? =~

. Three months and a half.’ rans 7

What hospital was that?, CJ

. Alexian Brother’s. |

Did they take some more x- rays?

. Yes.

Are you sure about the number of x- -rays they took?

I don’t know the number:

. So that if there are more x-ray- then what you have

al ready stated, you may be mistaken?

A. Maybe more. . ; .
Q.- How much did you pay to Doctor Steel? of N
A. $15 for three injections for three weeks.
Q. Did you pay him any more? —

A. No.

%
.
‘.

soPopbpors

a - . . 51 -

Q. Do you know how much your bill was for ee
tion for the three and a half months?

A. I don’t know, beéause I was in two rooms.

© Q. Do you know when.it was that you were three and a
half ‘months in the hospital?

A. From October 1st, 1935, to the 16th of January, oat
‘is three months.

Q. 1936?

A. 308.”

(fol. 82] Q. Then from January, 1936, you have been at
home in bed all the time? +

A. Yes.

Q. Reo you feet better or do you feel worse?

A. Worse, all the time worse.

Q. How about this spit? Do you get the same amount of
a pint a day or more? .

A. Same, same thing.

2 One pint a day? ©

A. Yes, if you don’t get it in. the daytime, you get it in
“night.

“Q. Do you sleep well? - ¢

A. No.

Q. Do you eat well?

A. No, I only drink milk for the morning and eggs.”

Q. Do you know how much you weigh-now? ‘

A. No. —

Q. When you started to cough in the latter part of 1931
did the company doctor do anything for yout

A. No.

Q. Did you tell them about it? F V-~

A. I told them, and they tell me that I am only thitiking
I am sick, and I am coughing. :

Q. To your knowledge did the company have any venti-
ating system at all other than the windows which- you
talked about while you were working there? Did they have
any exhaust fans or machines to take out these fumes and
odors and powder and chemicals? ~*~ ~

A. There was none, nothing at all.

. [fol. 83] Mi. Rudner: L object to.tpat. There is no proof
that the rooms or any.part of them @ntained any powder,
chemicals, or anything. The only testimony is that there

was dust. ;

“s

° e
SKS - aS .
ore :
° i .
. 2 ~~
—

’ . .

4

.By Mr. Turtur: ~~

.Q. Referring to this. dust that you spoke about before .
where you were working, what kind of dust. was it?
A. The first time only soda ash for two years to 1931.
o And in 1931?
A. They started to nial Anetasilicate and they mix i.

gether, ™S
Q. What was this dust?
A. Powder.
Q. What powder? Salicate ant what else?
A. Laundry powder or metasilicate.
Q. What else? -
.. A. That’s all.
Q. Didn’t ‘you say something about soda ‘ash?
A. Soda ash, that is why I said that there was silicate

and: soda ash. |

Q. Referrfng to this dust that you spoke about, which ©
was as heavy as you explained, was that chemicals that you
just spoke about now?
_ A. I don’t understand.

‘Q“I want to know what this dust was, what kind of
chemical this dust was.

A. No, only that dust from metasilicate and from the
[fol..84] soda ash.

Q. How about that. iia when = worked in the aul
phate department? ' ;

A. That is dust. ie

Q. What kind of dust was there?

“A. That is only from the rock, sdialtae's rock.

Q. What kind of dust was it that you spoke about when
you said something about caustics?

A. Caustic? They mix metasilicate with caustic, some
powder. s

Q. During all this time that+you worked there and had
this dust condition that you spoke about, did the company
have any kind of machinery or fans that would take out this
dust as soon as it et in, or would it stay there all day
long?

A. There was no machine and né fans, no nothing.

Q. During the eight hours work that you worked there,
was this chemical dust condition present every day, or
were there some days when it was worse and some days

_ better?

: rr 53 e

A. When it is foggy I could not see you from the other
end and when it stays foggy in the winter time and rains,

_ but when it is clear like this you can see the man a little a Vs
bit closer, but it lays anywhere, and as s@on as you go in
there, you get it When itis running. __,

Q. Was it running all the time? Was the setnibitheate de-
partment and the soda ash of this — rugning all. the
[fol. 85] time? ~

A. Soda ash department running all “the time, but meta-
-silicate I hear now——

Q. Don’t tell us what you hear. Just tell us how they |
ran when you were there until November, 1933. |

A. They run all the time.

Q. How often would it run?

A. They maké one hundred barrels or how much they
need, and they stop, and _. sell Ram, and they start ~
again.

Q. How long a time would expire, one week or two
_weeks? |
A. Sometimes three days, sometimes one week, some-

times two weeks.

Q. Would there be any of this. hemsien) dust—that is
what you mean, chemical dust? a

A. Yes. NS

Q. Would there be any. chemical dust coming from the
conveyors when they dumped this various material into
the hoppers?

A. Sure, from ™ glass it comes like powder and same
_ dust.

; Q. What do you mean by diass? ‘

A. Silicate glass, when we dump it in the chute, that is
what makes dust. Z .

Q. Lots of dust? |

A. Lots.of dust.

Q. Did they have anything over in the silicate depart-
ment to,cool off. that material?

A. They have what they make the silicate powder, laun-
dry powder, they have a little fan in there to pool that stuff
[fol. 86] that is thrown out.
| Q. When. they used that fan to cool the stuff that it
throws out, did that make any chemical dust?

A. That don ’t make the dust, just pushed the dust more
over.

‘

°o

.
.
. ° -
-

amy

More? “© a
. More near the place, and it goes all over.
. From what. department?
From the silicate department. , |
To what department? °
To our department. .
Where you were working?
. Yes.
Q. When this was done did they tell you that 1 this was
bad for you?
A. No.
Q. When this was done, did they give you any inathee’
A. No. 4
Q. Did they tell you to be careful?
— . A. No.

Q. Were the windows open all the tne or shut most
of the time?

A. We only shut the windows when bie: rain comes. |

Q. Were all the windows open or shut?

A. No, not all the way, about-half. .

Q. I am talking about all the windows. Were “ae open?
Were some of them open and some closed or were they _
all open? .

A. Some-they shut:
wo & So you conld not move them?
ae They was all the time open—I mean they was all the
time shut so you could not touch it.
(fol. 87] Q.. Where were these windows open in-the fac-
tory, up above or down below? ,
' A. Down below and up above the tines would be open.

Prererere

es (J.. When these windows would be opm, would that take
. out all this stuff? 7

A. No, it makes whirl around me, and on the floor.

Q. Did you ever complain to your foreman or stiperin-
tendent or anybody in charge ‘regarding the cause, and if
you did, did they say anything?

A. I don’t see no bosses.

Q. You are sure of what you stated before, that Se no
time did _ know that these chemicals were aeerens to yout
Is tha
yy re know nothing about them.

Q. When did-you find out the first time?

® caA. ; 1931. i, )

55
Q. No, I am talking ¢ about when you found, out for the

- first time about these chemicals?

_ A. Oh, when the doctor examined me.. +
-3@ That is the time?

_ A. That is the only time.

2. That is when he mentioned the word chemical?

A. Yes, he says, “Tf you. ned those chemicals, you would

die, from them.’’

Q. If it comes in your head?

A. He’ say that is bad.

Q. But nobody ever told you to watch -out for iat

chemicals nor didsyou ever know that these were harmful

to yout
[fol. 88]. A. Ugh, ugh.

Q. What did you mean when you said Ugh, ugh? —

A. He say the chemicals is bad for me. ~ -

Q. That is the first time that you found out, when this
doctor examined you in the latter of part of October or
November, 1933, is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. When you cleaned these gas partitions, how often
did gou clean them? Do you. know?

--A. Sometimes two times a week, sometimes three times _

“a week. .

Q. When you cleaned them, did any odors of any cort
come out?

A. Sure.

Q. What kind of odors was it? Do you know?

A

. From the coal, that stuff what you have in the chim-

ney.

Coal gas,

Yes.

Is ‘that what that is?

. Black stuff, from the chimney. ©
Soot?

. I don’t know. -

Did you get any respirator for that?
No, we don’t use respira r.

OPOPororos

and steps where you were working around the furnaces?
A. All over chemical dust, all over the plant when we
work.

. Was there any chemical dust around tines platiorms.

Q. How about the floors of the plantt Were they clean —
[fol. 89] all the ~~ or were they full of chemical _ too?
* t aes =

Set

Pees Te
Weeckee geeky Sparse nk care *
fa een ar. .

A. The clean it. when it is dry. That stuff when it is
warm, gets melted ‘down. .

Q.. How about this side door of the silieaks ilieniliadin'
Does that remain closed or open most of the time?

A. Which door? Outside? | |

Q: Yes, between ‘the silicate department and furnace
number one?

A. There is-no door, only from where they make the
Dretesiibeate, that is the Only door.

Q. Is there another door over on the other aide from
where they make the metasilicate? 7 ,

A. Yes. fa

Q. Why did you say no? Please be careful how you
answer.

A. I don’t understand.

Q. If you don’t understand any of my questions, “tense
say so and don’t answer if you don’t understand. Is there
a side door, that one outside the building, where they store
any barrels in the silicate department? - there a big
wide door there?

A. Yes. .

Q. You remember that now?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that closed or open most of the time when they
were making metasilicate? "3

A: Those doors, they used day time and open all the time.

Q. While were warning! ne

A. Yes. oo ;

[fol. 90] Q. Did any draft come y ars there? —

A, Sure.” .

Q. When they were making silicate and this door was
open and this draft was there, did that bring the chemical
dust more around you?

A. Thet draft comes in and then throws it on my place.

*

Q. -Where you were working? — —/
A. Where I was working and carry everything, all dust,
upstairs. ¥
__ Q. Do you mean where the tunnel or conveyor was, is
that so? r Le
A. Yes. . . | =a

Q. Regarding this conveyor, above the furnace number
one and number two and also number three, you said that.
there were some holes there, and that when.this soda ash ae
and other chemicals are going through there, they would

5

57.

fall through the holes and come right on top of you, is
that right?
A.. Yes.

Q. Were there many holes there at that time?

Mr. Rudner: I object to thgt. There is nothing in the
scope of the pleadings or bill of particulars about any ,
fects in any equipment.

- Mr.”-Turtur: I press the question for the same senaehe
before “as being very material and relevant to show the
‘improper working conditions of the plant.

[fol. 91] Mr. Rudner: It is also — irrele?ant
and immaterial to the issue fn this ta

By Mr. Turtur: ~

Q. Were there many holes?

A. There were so many ‘hgles, a whole lot of holes all
ovér. On this new one they hfve holes, but not like on the
old ones.

Q. You said the ol
a tunnel was it?

so many holes, what kind of

A. From the sheet ifon. —

Q. And you say there were many holes?

A. Yes.

Q. When was this present tunnel put up there?

A. 1930.

Q. And up to two years before that there were holes?

A. They were in the old tunnel.

Q. You say that there were lots of holes in the oid tun-
nel?»

A. Yes.

Q. When this chemical used to come through there, was

’ that the stuff that came down upon you while you were

working there? .
A. Come down and dropped like rain. .
Q. When this new tunne! was put up, you said that there

were not so many holes there as there were in the others,

is that so?

A. Yes. Ps
Q. But after this new tunnel was put up in 1930, was
'. [fol. 92] there still this chemical dust flying around from
this tunnel there and other places where yon were working?
A, Yes, and from the mixer and from the chu
Q. And from the pulleys, did you say before?

4 it i
A. Sure, they have a a couple of pulleys, I ne ‘t know how >
many.

y ; Q. How many pulleys were there? |
A. I don’t know.

[2 Q. Were there a lot?

A.*It was not such a lot like on the old ones, but they
started to fix them up.

Q. What kind of treatment dia they give you at this
hospital?

| A. In the hospital?
;

Q. What did they do for you! |
A. They only examined me in the’hospital every second -
A day. They take me and look all over me every second day,

7. and when I come back in the xe they give me light.

treatment.
Q. Which hospital is that? The Alexian Brothers?

a A. Alexian Brothers. They it sunlight and put elec-
1 tric machines on me to keep warm.
| 2, Q. Do you know what else they did for you?
| A. Nothing else.
! Q. How often was it that this dust was so thick, ‘like
4 ‘ smoke, as you say, that you could not see the fellow before
you, this chemical dust?
. A. When it was foggy.
| ; Q. How many days a month or a “week?
i

A. It is what kind of weather was outside. I don’t
_ remember.

in [fol.93] Q. It depended upon the weather?

48 A. Yes.
' Ly Q. Was there a heary amount of dust there every day
regardless of the weather?

: (The interpreter repeated the _ in Slavish).
Fo (In English.)

The Witness: Yes, it was dust every day no > matter
Ee kind of nice day.

a By Mr. Tartur:

Q. Was it heavy dust or a little dust?

A. Heavy dust and from the metasilicate d soda ash
it is the same

Q. When this dust would get ® above, you say it would
come down towards you?

Mr. Tartar: Cross-examine. :

a
. : -
4 . .
’
- .
- ~~

‘Croés-examination. |
By Mr. Rudner : ae ae

Q. You worked in the Perth Amboy Copper Works for
about seventeen years until the commer, July, 1928, is that
right? ;

A. Right.

Q. During that period of time you went a the ocean
to go te war, is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you start working at the copper er e.

A. 1910. >
[fol. 94] Q. When did you leave the copper works to go
to war?

A. I leave the sopper works to go to war in 1913 in Christ-
mas.

Q. Christmas of 19131

‘A. Yes, I went on vacation, not to war.

Q. You went on vacation?

A. Yes. \

Q. And then you ‘stayed there and : went to war?
A. Yes.
Five years. | 5 ~
. Five years. *
Were you actually in the battle front fighting
Yes. , t
When did you come back to this country? mr
. 1922.
You sta tayed across until 19221

Ate
Pe ae

OP
5

Q. You left this ‘country i in December, 19133 r,

A. Yes. f- . |

Q. And you stayed away until 18081 sp nt )

A. Yes.

Q.. Then you stayed in ae after ‘the war for a few
years? ‘¥° |

- Q. How old were you when | you came to this country the
first time? . ;
A. About sixteen.
Q. When you were a child did you have the measles!
A. I don’t remember. i . ,
Q. Did you have any chest colds as a child? i, % : a
A. I don’t remember. . ye .

i

a Seay

Q. Do you remember if you had. colds? rt
- A. No, I don’t remember.
(fol. 95] Q. Do you remember?
- A. No. . .
Q. Do you remem m7 oi
\ were a child?
| A. No, have no sickness. . My mother said
, Never mind that. What do you know about it?

So ,;

4
y sicknesses you had white ‘you

' A. That is all _— I know, what I remember, I never was
sick. .

Q. Did you ine chicken-pox or smallpox? ms

A. No. °

Q. You started to work for Grasselli in Cikebes, 1928?

A. Yes.

Q. That was after returning from Europe from vacation?

A. Yes.

Q. And from the very start you started to work in the
" silicate secede: : :

A. Yes. ic

Q..And when you started working you were assistant to .

the furnace man? .. , | : |
_ A. Yes. . ‘ Le ,
Q. You were a ieee. :
A. For two weeks I was a helper.
Q. You were a helper to a furnace man?
‘. Yes.
Q. And at that time théy had: only sig number one and
the number two furnace?
. Yes.
. The¥ did not have number threet
. No.
. After these two weeks you became a furnace. man?
.. Yes, put me on the furnace. .
. How many men worked on the furnace?
. One on-the two furnaces, and I had a helper. on the
[fol. 96] other side to clean the chutes.

Q. How many men worked in the whole furnace room?

A..Do you mean the whole plant?

Q. The whole furnace room?

» A. I had two men on the producers partitions, and alter
that 1 had another clay man, and when I want to pull
that-stuff up,.I had a place to put that

.. -Q. That was another man?
- A. A helper. I had four men

Epo POPO b>

a Aideemnin duties ind et ~ A eh ee HT 6 ct a pura ee ee ae eee Eee Oe titan
\ 73 pf S
ee PsN ’ ¢ j . + ry
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Q. That i is, four men besides yourself ?
2: Yes. ©

_ Q. That was the addins the whole time - that you
were thére? y
That was the whole TH gh -
Those furnaces are oil burnierg? | ,
First when I started to work it was gas. .
And then oil? | ;
Then we put in 1930... -- N
The number three furnace i is oil burning’ 49
Yes. e
. How long did you work. in the: silicate depextinnet
all told from 1938? When were you transferred?

. A. To 1933, May or April they transfér me.
Q. To where?

crererer i

A. To“that soda—I mean phosphate hiiiilaiin. ae
- Q¢So that from October, 1928, when you say you started,
until :-May, 1933-—— v

A. Yes

Q. (Continued ) —you wor rked i in the wrens cnene

Aa Yes.

[fol. 97]. Q. And from there on you eeted in " the phos-
phate department?

A. Yes. -

Q. That was in a different Perens

A 2a 2 =
" Q. Under a different foreman? -

A. @ifferent bosses. 3
_ Q. How far away from the silicate department was the
——_ department?

- A. Maybe five hundred feet, maybe four ‘ction feet.

Q. It is quite a : ai away?

A. Yes.

Q. A different building?
~ A; Yes.

Q.. After you ° were esheets to ‘the phosphate de- y
partment, you never. went back te- the, silicate department ae.
to work, did you? . : ft

A. No. = :

Q. It that correct?

“i ee

Q.-That was a ‘cetnplate-icaniter- from the silicate de-
partment to the. phosphate dgpartment?
AL Yea. - é oe |

62

‘atall? _

A. No.

Q. That was in May, 1933?

A. Yes, May or April, I don’t know.

Q. The furnace room is a big room, isn’t it? It is a very
. big, long room?
A. The 6ld one? The whole business? a
2. Yes. a
. That is not so Jong; how many feet I don’t know if
| \ you gn there two hundred feet long. . {

Q. ‘You had nothing to do with the silicate sles

[fol. 98] Q. Do you think it is about two anrene feet long?
A. I would say over two hundred feet long.
Q. How wide is this.furnace room?
A. It may be about eighty feet or ninety feet, like that.
Q Highty feet or r ninety feet wide and over two hundred
feet long?
. Yes, I think so.
And it is a very high building?
. One is high and the other. one is low..
The number three furnace is high?
. Yes:
And the other one is low?
. Yes.
And there are lots of windows in that soni’ vee
. In the new one, yes. f
You mean around the- number three furnace? f
Yes. e
How many doors are there in that furnace room!
One.
. I mean how many doors were in the furnace room when
you were there?
A. One door from outside, that’s all.
j Q. Where was that Goort
) 7 _ A. On the side.
: *Q. Near where? : |
A. Near the furnace.
Q. Which furnace? . a aet e e
' A. Number three. — : | i /
Q. Weren’t there some doors -on the other side leading
into the mixing room? ,
a ' A, Yes, there was one door. ,
' Q. And there is another door leading to the metasilicate '
room?

sOrerererererer

63

A. There is a door. |
[fol.99] Q. This metasilicate rom is a different room from
the furnace room?

5A. Yes. ’

Q. Different walls? ae 89

A. It has.

Q. Do you understand my question? . How many rooms
are there next to the furnace?

A. There is one room wkere they call the warehouse, and
you go in, and then the next room is where that machine is
where they make the. metasilicate, and the third room is
where they have the machine where they make the silicate
from water.

Q. Water?

A. Yes. -

@- They mix something with water? . It i is wet?

»__ A. They put the silicate in and we cook it and take the

Water from the silicate out. That is three rooms.

Is that the room near the furnace room?

. Maybe about thirty feet or twenty-five.

It was a different room?

That is a different room.

The furnace room is a room by itself ?

Yes.

. Did you work all the time:in the furnace room while
you were in the silicate department?

A. Yes. |

Q. You worked in po other reome? o-

A. I was working in this cooking room where we cooked
the silicate in.-

Q. How long did yoy work there? | : °

A. For a month and a half, I know when they fixed the
furnace, I was working in there.

, (fol. 100] Q. When was that? :

A. 1931, I don’t know what month.

Q. Outside of working for a month and a half i in that room
where they mixed that soda, or whatever they mixed, you
worked- all the time in the furnace room while you were
working in the silicate department? _ as

A. Yes. Jie

- Q. That would keep you in this furnace room all the time?

A. Yes, I was working—— —

Mr. Turtur: I object on the groynd that it tends to show
that there i is an enclosure about the department where the |

. ‘ .
ee
.
™
-

fopepepes

64”

furnace was, and there-is no enclosure, as a matter of fact.
There is no room within the meaning of the word room. It
is a large area.

By Mr. Rudner:

Bis Q. When'I say room, I. mean the tour walls and the fur-
pi nace, a greabbig space with the furnace. You worked in that
place, is that right?

A. Yes.

Q. While you were working on the furnaces, did you —
in one position all the time, or did you go to various parts
of the furnace room? | aie

A. Ihave to govall over. I have to look after everything.
[fol.101] Q. You would not be oo in front of the fur-
. nace all the time? .

° -A. Ra

Q. What would you o What work did you do in the -
| ' furnace room?
i A. Weil, I have to watch the fires, for one thing, re an-
peleo:. °° other thing, I filled those furnace with soda ash and sand —
ae ‘and melt that, and I melt that and that water, and I go on n the.
= other side and letit out. ©

ee Q. Wher you say that you filled the furnace with soda ash
that ig all enclosed in pipes, isn’t it?

A. It comes down in chutes and you feed it from the
chutes. . , &

Q. It comes down from the chutes into the feeder, which
is part of the furnace?

A. Yes. | |

rn The feeder is part of the furnace?

A. Yes.

a Mr. Turtur: I don’t think he enibenitendie the question,
: because he is answering yes to something that is not so.

By Mr. Rudner :

Q. This soda ash and sand came through the pipes?
A. No, they come from the chutes.
Q. The chutes are pipes, aren’t they?
_ A. No, they are - pipes, they are too big. It is in a the
bottom. |
Q. Are the chutes round? —
A’ No .- -
Q.-Are they square?

an —sentvoerese tinbedaseitondpehiachoe i> ands cis
ve"

oa

65

A. Square. . _—
' Q. They are all enclosed?
A. That cannot be closed because the chutes goes in the
-[fol. 102] feeder. The chute is on the side.
Q. This mixture comes through the chutes and it goes into
| the furnace?
A. Yes.
Q. And in the furnace it is melted?
A. Yes.
Q. And on the other side it comes out like fire, molten
ae -

A. Like wate:.

Q. A fire color?

A. Yes.

Q. It flows out?

A. Yes. . .

Q. And then is cooled in squares?

. "A. Yes, all the furnace was running in the water in a big
renovator, and on the other side it was come out in the cars
glass.

Q. There was water being poured over the glass?

A. That water was cooling it all the time.

Q. And then the glass is carried away?

A. They make silicate from that glass.

Q. Did you have to go to another part of the building in
connection with your work in the furnace room?

A. I have to go afpstairs because they are supposed to-
dump the car8. ~~

ae During the course of your eight hours a day you would
be going all over this factory?

A. Yes.
Q. It is a big furnace room?
. A. Yes. a
[fol. 103] Q. You wonld go ‘from one place to ‘inten

place?
AL Yes. os ?
os Q. That wotld be eit all the » dayt .
| ‘ A. Yes, I was watching.the furnace and watching the

water, arid when I want water, I have to go in another room.
Q. Did you have to push buggiest 7
A. -Yes..
Q. And empty the buggies!

5—378

66

ef A. Yes, I empty the buggies into the chutes.

BE Q. Did the other men help you do that?

7 e A. Yea, I had helper. I had two furnaces, and I had a.
helper.

Q. During the whole time you worked in the silicate de-
partment, you worked as a furnace man in the furnace room
except for a month and a half while you worked with the

1 | metasilicate? _ ;

. ‘A. Yes; only one month,

‘Q. That is the metasilicate room? ae

_ , A. Beside the metasilicate room, because that is another
room. They have two machines.

Q. What did they de with those machines? _ |

‘ A. That make the water white. They put silicate in that
machine, and I have to take and cook that, so I take the water
out of the silicate.

Q. It is pretty hot around the furnaces while the furnace -
Pre

oA. Yes.
- Q. That is from the heat — through the nDaNer
[fol. 104] A. Yes.
Q. And that made you perspire quite ‘a lot?
A. Yes, it made me sweat all the time.
. ‘Q. Of course, you know that when you get near heat you:
have to sweat? You knew that?

\

a

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os

a Oren tee ape See a te oe ea
Py ‘

ea gi
ee A

A. Yes.
Q. And-in the summer time you oe sweat-even though
you did not work near the furnacet “8 |

Mr. Turtur: I object to that as calling for a different kind |
of perspiration. One is from toil, and ™ other is from the
natural heat ‘of the sun. :

By Mr. Rudner:

Q. What I am asking you is this: While you worked at
Grasselli and during the summer time when you were not
; working’on the furnaces, you also had to sweat and perspire?

Mr. Turtur: I object to that is immaterial, jrrelevant and
incompetent as to this issue.

The Witness: Sure, around the furnaces you got to sweat
all the time, you work or just walk around, you got to sweat.

“FR a a lee ae renee OA elias Rial eee Muon ae deer fae

67
By Mr. ‘Rudner:

Q. I,mean when you were not working on the furnaces i in
[fol. 105] the summer time, when you were around the street
outside, did you also sweat in the summer time?

A. If it was hot, sometimes you got to sweat.

Q. Thete were quite a lot of windows in-this room with
the furnaces? ;

A. Not in the old one. -

Q. I mean around the number three furnace.

A. A lot of windows. ~ ,

Q.-Were the windows downstairs?

A. Downstairs and upstairs, three story windows.

Q. Theye were windows all around the number ait

® furnace? |
A. Yes. .
Q. How about on the roof ? Were there open ventilators
. or circulators? Is there an opening on the roof?

A. Do you mean these round things? There is only one,

I think. I don’t know whether it is open or not.

Mr. Turtur: When? ) cn.

By Mr. Rudner:

Q. While you were wants there, were these round things ,
_ on the roof opening outside of the roof?

‘A. No.

. 9. Did you see that opening in 1 the roof?
_ A. No, I never saw it was open. — .
Q. You mentioned the word one. What were you talking

about? : ;
A. IL only see one round thing. ‘
Q. You did see that one round thing?

[fol. 106] A. Yes. .

Q. That was while you were working as a furnace man?
A. That is under the chute, under the conveyor, way up; .

you cannot see if it is open or not.
Q. That is in the ceiling or the roof?
A. Yes.
Q:-You say that the tunnel over number, one and two fur-

naces was full of holes?
A. It was full of holes.
Q. When did you first find out about the holes in the’

tunnel? — é e

QO

A. When I start to work it is coming down all thetime.
BY oF Q. Did that keep on ne down every day?
+ Fee. _ A. Every day.
; Q. So long as you worked on number one and number two
furnaces? ie
A. Yes. -
Q. But you kept right on working. nevertheless?
Bs A. Yes. ;
a at Q. How about when you went to nuinber thr and you
ae had new tunnels?
i A. I had new tunnels. ‘
a. ____.Q. Did they stop work on the number one y and number two

14 furnace?
*) A.’ They stopped working, and they start number three.
ae | Q. Did you start on number three furnace when they

opened the furnace? The first time that they opened the
number three furnace, did you start it? |
A. I start it, I make it hot. Sekar ee
[fol 107] Q. You were the first man to work on it.
A. Yes. |
" Q. And thereafter you kept working on the number three
iS furnace? __
ae A. Yes. :
* Q. You never again worked on the number one or ‘num-
hoy ber — } ; ; |
Number three was a brand 1 new furnace? -
. Yes. 9
And brand new conveyors?
Yes.
Everything was new?
Yes. —
The tunnel was new? "
Yes. f
All the pipes were new!
Yes. |
. After you started working on the number three fur- 4
_ mace did you ever work. again on: the number one: » and |
number two furnace?
A. No.
Q. Were these gas producers on the number one and
. number two furnaces only?
4 | A. ¥es.
bat Q. Not on the ‘number three furnace?

coe erereree sy

eo . : 69
A. No, there is oil.
Q: So you had no cleaning to os on the gas producers
- after the number three furnace was opened?
A. They didn’t clean them, not the new ones.
> Q. That is because they operated on oil? ~ ” Seige
A. Yes.
’Q. Can you tell what time of the year they opened that
number three furnace?
A. 1930 in March.
Q. In March, 1930? . °
A. Yes, I dort know which day. |
Q. What did you say about the dust condition after
they opened the number three furnace?
[fol 108] .A. A lot of dust. :
-Q. The same amount of dust as Before?
’ A. Yes, the dust shoots down the hole. The tunnel was
all holes yet because they don’t fix it yet good, and the
* soda ash and the soot get hot because the chute was -too
low by the fire and it don’t want to drop down all the
time; you have to go and hit it.
Q. Did the number three furnace have all new chutes?
A. Yes.
Q. When the number three furnace was open, there were
all new chutes?
A. Yes,.and there were holes when iron comes on to >
iron.
_ Q. That was from the very start?
A. Sure.
- -Q. Fhey were new pipes and new tunnels}
A. There was no pipes.
Q. New conveyors? .
A. Yes.
Q. New tunnels?
A. Yes. ®
Q. And you say you still had dust? —
A. ~~ , still dust. ee ee ee
of black stuff.
Q. And seeing this dust, as you say you saw, you still
- kept working i in the dust, is that right?
° Yes.
cates | Sen cal conde ech odes ta Be wietie vemm
: ‘and. furnace.room. There were some pulleys somewhere?
_-. ‘[fol/109] A. Pulleys all the time and dust come from
there. eae ,

Pit Ta hth Al ER
- ee +s
.

Q. Where did the batiews come from? | . r A
A. The pulleys on the other side of the furnace right

beside. number one furnace, and the mixing room is on

the other side of the wall.

Q. So the pulleys. ran from the mixing room ‘into the
furnace room?

A. Yes. .

Q: And you say that dust came from that?

‘A. Yes.

Q. When did you say that ‘Mr. Davis closed up the
openings around the pnileys? _
. A: I don’t know which sedate but I know ig see them. |

_ told Mr. Clark. |: vA

the pulleys? :
A. They put boxes.
“Y. Wi en. boxes?
‘A. Y *.
Q. Those wooden boxes were built around the ‘lies

s.

. Q. When.was that? ~ | ak |
A. That was in 1929. ; ,
Q. And after you told him, they put Nae around

Pe bx =

AL Yes, but they don’t fit on the sheet iron because .

- the sheet iron, one’ p was lower.
_Q. Did those boxes stay there?
. A. They stay there and the dirt fall down irom ‘the
pulleys and knock the box down.
1 Q. And they put the box back? -
A. Sometimes they have to make new boxes up.
Q. That was done promptly?
._ _ A. Maybe they keep sometimes a month.
- ‘ [fol.110] Q. Before it was we Ah ‘
A. Yes.

“

Q. And after the boxes were put up, did you tell Mr. ~~

Davis or anybody else - the boxes were not right —

; A. I tell him, too, that this box is-no good, too much
@ os |

‘

Q: Tell us when you did your kaat - soak in the silicate

aa ; department. . — i.
bs A. 1932, but: I don’t remember a month. It was in |

fe - . May or April.
,Q. In the spring of 1932?—~
A. Yes, they changed me to the phospI te. ;
; Q. And_thereafter you never came back to the silicate
sq _ department? ~- “ os
"A. No.

ade In the _—— department” who was 8 your foreniant 4

The foreman was——
Mr. Hammond? iets ,
: Mr.:Hammond, yes. :
Mr. Thompson? ;
Thompson was all over.
. What was the first work you did in the phosphate de- .
partment? .
A. Started to dump rocks. ai .
— Q. Was that outside? .. ae
_ A. Outside three days, and ‘dep put me on the Dorr -
plant for operator and dry that out from the liquid what
they make the liquid two days. I was like bfeakér man.
Q. You worked out doors on the tocks for three days?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you do outside? —
. Dump rocks in the chutes what we have.
114] Q. What kind of rock is that?
Phosphate rock.
Is it like pebbles or was it big pieces?
It was small pieces, like powder it comes.
How would you dump that, by Shovelling it off? |
From the bag into the chute. \ ; i
Did you have to weigh it? ne
. Yes, we have to weigh it, push it on the sition and
weigh it, and push it on, the chute and dump it down. ‘e
. That was all done outside?
A. Yes. .
. Q. Was that near ie waterfront?
A. From the river? | Yes, about. fifty feet from the -
river. >

é

opopor

[f

prererertre

> © &e

Q. It is all open there? ee tie
A. Yes. . oS tee
-Q. You did that for three aes Pere Oe | baie

A. Yes.

Q. Then what ma you do? You went inside?

A. Two days. , | | ,

Q. With the liquid?

PS Nee Ba dss : :

Q. You worked with the liquid two days? hie

_A. Yes, in one week two days. ae

Q. That is wet, the liquid? —

_A. Sure, it is water, sulphuri¢ acid.

Q. It is like water? Is it water or sulphuric acid? . |
A. It is mixed with sulphuric acid, and Cer call it liquid. Soe

~

74 pt Psa

Q. It is not dry or sand? :
A. No, it is not sand, it is wet: ~ | \

_ Q. Where did you go then after those two days? —

[fol. 115] | oe
ER . Yes. ; | iar me

A 2
| . Q. Did you cough much? 7 oe
4 A. I — a little ; it comes up more, all the time it comes
he up. Sy
| Q. Did you cough all through 19321 es
A. All through 1932 and 1933, coughing all the time..
X Q. Alt through 1932 and all through: 1933 igh eget
. A. Yes. aod
- Q. And you are still coughing? The soda, dry soda, that dust comes bal when you
hit it.
Q. What did you mean when you used the word: smoke?
What did you mean by that?
‘ A. That dust is like smoke.
Q. It is as heavy as smoke?.
_ A. Yes, sure. y
Q. You had to inhale that dust, is that so?
A. Sure, I have to.
.' Q. Was there anything to take out that dust from whese
you were working?

r

84

A. You aih’t allowed to take that dust because——
Q. F didn’t ask you that. I asked you if there was any-
thing to take out that dust. |
A..No, no. -.
Q. Where there any motor driven fans. of any kind to

pen that out? : 3

A. No.
~Q. When these windows were opep; did that ike out all

_ that dust?

A. From the bin, you ain’t allowed’ to ss windows in
the bin.

Q. Did you work in the bin?’

A. I was working four or five times in the bin.

Q. What do you mean by four or five times?
[fol.131] Five days.

Q. Altogether five days?

A. In the bin, maybe more, all what 1 now straight
five days. ‘
Q. So that the last time that you were ‘working for th
Grasselli Chemical Company at the end of November, "1933,

_ what was the chemical that you were working around?

A. Soda ash, and there is some caustic, too, but the-caus-

’ tie comes soda ‘ash, and they mix with liquid and caustic.

Q. What: liquid are you talking about? What is that?
A. Water and acid and some of that. | °

_ Q. Water and a¢id?

A. Yes.

Q. What kind of atiat
A. Sulphuric acid.

Q.. Did tlt throw off any fumes, any smells?
A. Sure,. you know what acid do. ;

Q. You said that there was _— ash and sulphuric acid :

and what else there?
- A. What kind of anja thay hey want.”

Mr. Rudner: I object on, the ground that that i8 not re- ”

» direct examination, not — based. upon any crogs-exam-

ination.
-Mr. Turtur: This is ‘eeed upon shomndnaitnalins ieee

he. was not in contact with any. of the,chemicals, other than |
silicate way back in 1932, and it is also clarification of the ~

[fol. 132] testimony..
. The Witness: And 7. ‘rock.

Sd

sgt ae =

‘By Mr. Turtur: |

Q. What rock?

_A. They call it phosphate rock. —
Q. Was there any of that phosphate oer there?
Q. They make the powder from that thing.

|
Zo

Q. In the department where you were working they also

made the phosphate of soda powder?

A. -Phosphate soda powder, duo powder, and all kinds.
. Q. Were you working 3 in that oe

A. Sure. .

Q. What kind of ‘powder?

A. All kinds of powder.»

Q. Give us the name of the powder, if you can.

A. First they make the phosphate soda. That is all kinds
I have there, and there is common dry soda, and then they
make soda’ what they mix duo. soda, and one soda I don’t
know how they call it, they use‘another rock.
_ Q. What kind of rock?
A. Stones, and they melt them and make liquid, I don’t
know what that is.

Q. Do I ‘understand ron you. were’ in this department-

where they made the phosphate of soda?
~ Be mee }

Q. And you worked in the bint

A. Yes.

Q. And there was this soda ash there?
oA. Yes.

[fol. 133] Q. And it was ‘mixed with sduteaste acid?
A. All mixed with liquid with sulphuric acid.

. Q. It was mixed with sulphuric acid, and also the phos-
phate and phosphate rock?
A. Yes.

" Q. You were hotties in ee department?
_ A. Yes.

Q. What was ‘the last sivaieioal that you came in con- :
tact with in November, 1933, when you said you worked |

a there? ; -o

A. On the Dorr plant for operator and dumping rocks. Be

Q. What were the chemicals? Is that what you ‘explained
- before? : ae
_ A; Rocks. -

* What kind of rocks?

2

86

A. Phgsphate rocks and sulphuric acid mixed with water,
and rocks. goes in there. i
Q. What about this soda ash that you spoke about before?

A. Soda ash was on the side. It makes dust all the

time. That ain’t my job.
- Q. But there was soda ash on the side, and that gave
you the dust, too? 3 : hoe

A. Yes. 7 a
- Q. And you also came in contact with this phosphate of
soda? en

A. When this draft come over here from where’ they 3
maka that, it comes:on us, and if it comes from’ this side,
then thésoda ash go on there. |

Q. Referring to this chute that you spoke about to Mr.

. Rudner in furnace number three, you said it was low

on cross-examination. You said it was low, and you had
[fol. 134] to hit it with a hammer once in a while.

Mr. Rudner: He never said that-to me.

By Mr. Turtur: |

Q. (Continued.) When you hit this chute in the furnace
number three—the chute that you spoke about to Mr. Rudner
—was there a chute there at furnace number three?

A. The chute was hanging on the top and undef the
bottom we had the feeders for that stuff, and the stuff
came down from the chute into the feeder and.in the
front, and then, it is pushed in. Those chutes were too

' low because the first time we had a fire on the soda beside
the chute, and that soda ash and sand get hot and it

stops, and then we have to hit that with a hammer, and
when we hit with a hammer, it comes out and that flies all

over. ‘

Q. What flies ‘all over?

A. Soda ash and sand, so. a lot of times the men that
was up.there had to. run away from it, everybody yon
away, maybe Mr. High sometimes he was up there. |

Q. Referring to these windows around where you were
working, you spoke of high windows that you could never
open. Why? : . :

A. Because they are high.

Q. Were they always shut?

A. Yes

be

\

87

[fol. 135] Q. When you broke up the phosphate rock with
the hammer, did‘that cause any dust? /

A. Phosphate of soda, not —— rock.

Q. Phosphate of soda? |

A. Yes. ’

. Q. You broke that with a hammer?

A. Yes.

Q. Did that give off any dust? )

A. Yes, that gives dust but not so much. It gives a
dust when you put it on the screen and when I break it.
One man break it up, me or somebody else, and another
man is-on the screen and break ee into little pieces,
-and a lot of dust comes..

Q. A lot of dust?

A. Yes.

Q: When you were working in “this diaiitiabe depart.
ment. and also working with this sulphuric mixture and

9)

i ae 99
we are going to ask you that you render # substantial ver-
dict for this man, as’ we will prove to you by proper medi-
cal testimony and proper legal evidence that the man is
incapacitated, and may live for just a short, while, and we
say that the condition which he is. suffering from is due
entirely to the negligence of the defendant company.

—ee—EEE,

OPENING FOR DEFENDANT

(Mr. Rudner opened on behalf of the defendant as fol-
lows :) | ! | a

[fol..20] May it please’ your Honor and gentlemen of the
jury: Mr. Matey was employed in the silicate of soda de-
partment of the Grasselli Chemical Company for a period
of time, and in that department was manufactured what
is called silicate glass, the final produ¢t of glass, a hard sub-
- stance made up of a combination of silica, sand and soda
ash. We contend in this case, gentlemen, the combination
of these products which this man was working with—and I
might say he was a furnace man in this particular depart-
menf, operating a furnace—and the product all confts
throtgh enclosed pipes,—you don’t see the product at all,
—it ebmes through enclosed pipes, and:is mechanically oper-
ated‘in a furnace where:it is molten and poured out as mol-
ten glass, silicate glass, and finally as hard putty,—none of
these things at which this man worked in the furnace room

were in any respect dangerous or harmful to Mr. Matey or

other employes. We say there were ample ventilators,
plenty of ventilators. We say there was no such dust con-
dition as suggested by counsel’s opening. We deny there

was any such dust situation. We all know this, gentlemen, |

in the course of human experience, wherever we are there
is a little dust, and there was a little dust in this plant,

but a very small amount of dust, with ample ventilation in —

“fol. 21] the form of windows, and other things, which are

about the plant. We deny negligence in any respect what-

soever. We say that this company fulfilled all the obliga-
tions imposed by law with respect to this man. This plant
was periodically inspected—this particular room was pe-
riodically inspected by the Labor Department of the State
of New Jersey. I am going to bring into court inspectors

of -the Labor Department, who inspected the department, ;

rf

r)
.

100 . | ‘
; i | |
found the ventilation adefuate, made no recommendations, _
-but always favorable reports were made with respect to the
plant by the Labor Department. of the State of New Jersey.
We deny negligence in any respect whatsoever. We say to
you gentlemen that the room contained no harmful dust,
contained no dangerous dust; contains nothing of a dangér- ‘
ous nature to affect this man. Now apparently Mr. Matey
is sick,—Mr. Turtur has said with an abscess on his lung. .
We say to you gentlemen, whatever condition Mr. Matey |
does have is notin any wise attributable to his occupation
‘with the Grasselli Chemieal: plant, or anything which hap-
pened at the plant itself. Any condition which came about
to him might have come about to. Mr. Matey had he worked |
on the outside, or had he worked in an office, as I do. It
is just a circumstance that he worked in the Grasselli Chemi-.
[fol,22] cal Company’s plant, with no connection with the
present condition of health of Mr. Matey. We have several .
defenses, set forth in detail in our answer, I will not go
into in detail.. It is a matter for you and the Court to pass
upon later. We deny, of course, all charges of negligence.
We say whatever illness he is now suffering from resulted
from a risk assumed by the plaintiff and by all employes.
We have other defenses, including the one that the action
is barred by the Statute of Limitations of the State of New |
Jersey. Such other defenses as are mentioned in our an-
swer are matters of law to be passed upon by you gentle-
men and by the Court.’ We deny that under the. circum-
stances of this case, the plaintiff is entitled to any récovery.
whatever, and we deny any charge of negligence growing.
out of the facts which I have mentioned.

. Moriow AS TO InsPEcTion or Pian, £7C.

Me "artis ‘May it please the Court, at this time I make
a motion that your Honor permit the jury to inspect. the
plant of the defendant company, as I understand from coun-
sel that the physical condition of the plant has not in any
- wise been changed, so that the jury will know exactly the.

appliances that were used, and so that the jury may exam-
ine the specific premises where this gentleman worked.
[fol. 23] The Court: Do you want them to go now?

Mr. Turtur: Whatever your Honor may say.

The Court: All —

* 101

Mr. Turtur: And I further would like to make a motion
that your Honor permit the jury to interview. Mr. George
Matey at his home, so that they will see the condition of
this. gentleman.. at |

The Court: Any opposition? ) ; act

Mr, Rudner: If your Honor please, I suppose there are
going to be doctors here who will testify to this man’s con-
dition. I suppose they can give as strong a picture as any-

body can’ givé.~E- didn’t. know how your Honor ruled on
‘__...the’ first motion. _ a | | 7
The Court: I think they can view the premises. '
Mr. Rudrier: Suppose we leave that matter for the time
- being. We have photographs here and an excellent chart
‘which I-have drawn. ~ |
.. The Court: They had better go and see it, I think.

Mr. Turtur: And may I ask, your Honor please, from—
Mr. Rudner now, whether the plant is-in operation? ©

‘Mr. Rudner : It is.

Mr. Turtur: In full?

Mr. Rudner: Yes. |

. [fol. 24] The Court: I personally think it would be a mis-°
take to: subject either your plaintiff:or the jury to a rather
painful examination, but you may do as you wish.

Mr. Turtur : Well, I thought, your Honor please, the jury
might see for themselves the condition of this gentleman.
He lives near the plant itself, and while they are making the
inspection of: the plant, they might just look at George ©
-Matey and see for themselves what his condition is. They

- don’t have to talk to-him, but they may observe him, and
f think it will help not only the jury, but help the Court
in arriving at whatever decision—— ..

Mr. Rudner: I might say, your Honor, I think the testi-.
mony will present to the jury quite adequately facts with
respect to the plant and its operation. = |

The Court: Well, as I understand, Mr. Turtur, nobody
questions the fact that the man is seriously ill. The only
question in dispute is, first, whether his illness was caused
by the defendant, and secondly, whether it was negligently ©
so caused. No one'will dispute that he is seriously, or even
desperately ill, will you? : a
~ Mr. Rudner: The man‘is certainly a sick,man._ -

‘Mr. Turtur: Except that he has a right constitutionally
[fol. 25] and: legally and otherwise to be observed by the
jury. | . : i

i

tS RGN SS IAG HI ERG ARNON LE BBG LUE 5 LEG RISE LEE CPE LAINE, ORLA Bi
= ‘ fate So SE ee Fs ‘

102

% The Court: I don’t seem 1 to iit such wdiaitbiiesd say no
. one questions that he is desperately ill and probably has’
H not long to live, but I don’t think he should be subjected
to the ordeal of having himself inspected like a guinea pig.
I will charge the jury that he is desperately ill and that he
has not long to live.

‘Mr. Rudner: The man an is ery sick.

: _ . The Court: Don’t it. He is desperately ill.
et The Clerk asks who will pay the expenses of taking the jury
LiL © 7 to. the plant._

We will let the costs abide the event.
Mr. Rudner: May I suggest this : I suggest we go for-
_ ward with the proofs——
- The Court: No, I think they ought to see it first. They
will be back by two:o "clock, three o’clock, anyway.
. Mr. Turtur: Now, how does your Honor want this i inspec-
tion? May counsel accompany this jury?
The Court: I ddn’t want any quarreling. I am going to
. send the Clerk, and I don’t want any discussion on the part
[fol. 26] of counsel, or any quarrejing between counsel. —
Mr. Rudner: I don *t think there will be —_ discussion at

the plant.
4 Mr. Turtur: May we point out the various places that we
contend—— i
The Court: No, you may not. Neither ‘defendant or you ©
_ are to utter one word at that plant. you do I will de- -

clare. & mistriaj. _
Mr. Rudner: That is only the silicate department of the
- plant.

Mr. Turtur: Yes, but your Sian gave an order——

The Court: The jury can make a thorough inspection of
that plant, and see for themselves what it is like.

Mr. Turtur: Now, your Honor please, your Honor issued °
an order in this court permitting the plaintiff to make an
inspection of whatever place or places the plaintiff worked.

The Court: Mr. Turtur, I really can ‘thave so. nafich quar-
reling. /

Mr. Turtur: Your Honor please, I don ’t mean to quarrel
with you.» I am very respectful, and E. want to be very re-
spectful with due deference to the Court. ° €

The Court: I said that the jury can go and inspect the
‘[fol. 27] silicate department. They are intelligent. men,
They can retain in their minds the-physical impression.
that that department makes upon them. I suppose the

103

Clerk can inquire which the silicate department is, and he ©
- can see that the jury have the run of the silicate department.
Mr. Turtur: All right. Now your Honor’s order stated
-whatever place or places the plaintiff worked. Now he
worked also outside of the.plant, and he also worked in this
other department where he was subjected to the same kind
‘of chemical that he was in the silicate department.
- The Court: Which I have already ruled out, counsel, as
you well know. ; |

Mr. Turtur: Then your order, your Honor, please, covers
the broad scope of whatever place or places he worked, and
your -Honor—— .

The Court: You are to confine the proof to the silicate de-
partment. That is the part of the plant the jury. will in-
spect and no other. ge ae fs

Mr. Turtur: There will be a court attendant there with
the jury? |

The Court: Mr. Jaeckel.

The Clerk: And I will have the Marshal with me.

Mr. Rudner: Comnsel and none of ‘us to make a single
[fol. 28] statement whatsoever to the jury. They are free
to go in the silicate department, wherever they choose to go.
. The Court: I will permit the jury.to ask questions of the
employes as to the operation of the plant.

Mr. Turtur: Your Honor please, I think with deference
to the jury they ought to be informed which is No. 1 furnace,
which is No. 2 furnace, and which is No. 3, as will develop
in the trial, so that they will know which particular fur-
naces : |

Mr. Rudner: No. 3 is the only furnace in operation, and.
the only-one which has been in operation for several years.
No. 1 is the furthest away from No. 3, and No. -2-is the
furnace right next to No. 3 furnace. I don’t think that this
means anything just now, your Honor please, but I don’t
think it will do any harm to just say this is No. 1 furnace,
. No. 2 furnace and No. 3 furnace. |

-The Court: Three o’clock. I don’t want to hurry you, and
I want you-to have your lunch, too. -No one except the two
counsel, neither your fepresentative, nof Mr. Rudner’s rep-
resentative. : | lnk Se,
/ Mr. Turtur: Nor ary of his assistants.

e

/ The Court: No. hed.
' (Recess.) -

a

[fol.29] Afternoon Session—3 00 P. M.

The Court: I think it will be better, gentlemen—I have
a hearing on a reorganization proceeding—it is pretty late
now—maybe you have had quite a strenuous time, I don’t
know, you look all right—I think we had better adjourn

~ until tomorrow morning at 10:30, if that is agreeable.

Is there anything to report, Mr. ‘Jaeckel?

The Clerk:.I have questions and answers which I will

‘ have typed up tonight.

The Court: Is there any dispute about it?

‘The Clerk: No.

Mr. Turtur: Your Sonar, may I ont that you be so kind,
if possible, to permit: Mr. Pierce; who is the employment
manager of the Raritan Copper Works, to answer just a

few questions as to his’former employment?

The Court: Who is he? .

Mr. Turtur: He is a man where Mr. Matey worked prior
to going to Grasselli. He is a very: short witness.

The Court: All right. Call him.

[fol. 30] i ieee W. Prerce, dalled and sworn on behalf,
of the plaintiff, testified as follows :

Direct examination.
By Mr. Turtur:

Mr. Pierce, by whom are ypu employed?
Raritan Copper Works, Perth Amboy.
And in what department? :
Director of Safety & Welfare. 2
And for how long have you been. so employed
Some 36 years.
So. that you were there prior to 1928? -
I was.
. And did you at my request make an examination of
the recérds of your plant regarding the employment record
of George Matey?.
A. I did.
Q. Would you please refer to the record sadoadbiion the
Court and jury, please, as to how long Mr. Matey worked

epopepere

-there?.

A. Our record shows that he was employed October 15,
1923 to May 31, 1928.

>

105

Q. Did he work there prior to that’ ;
Re a a ee E . ]

Cross-examination.
By Mr. Rudner: >

Q. Mr: Pierce, you testified with, respect to the period of
October, 1923, to May, 1928. | ai

A. Yes,

Q. That Mr. Matey was employed by tiie. Raritan Copper
Works. He was also emplayed for ‘sometime prior to
October, 1923, was he not? = -

A: Well, I believe so. I cannot testify om the records.
I havén’t the records to show it.

~Q. Your records don ’t go beyond 1923?

A. No.

Q. He might have very well been eniployed there ‘without
your records showing it? —

[fol. 33] A. I believe that was the case.

Q. According to your best information and belief was he
actually employed by the Raritan Copper Osmgeny for
same period of years prior to 1923?

A. Well, I have no personal knowledge that he was.

Q. While Mr. Matey was working at the Raritan Copper
Works, with what materials was he working ; ; what was he

doing?

A. Why, his occupation was that of night furnace man.

Q. And working on a furnace?

A. Yes. .

Q. And what was being molten in the atnene’.

A. Copper.

Q. Was that the product he worked in the whole time he
worked for the Raritan Copper Works?

A. Yes.

» Redirect ination. ~ :
3 . By ' Turtur: .
Q. That did leave out any chemical, dust of any kind,

did it, in the ovcupation?
A. ‘No. ,

Recross-examination.

By Mr. Rudner:

Q. There was heat there, however; v was there not?
A. Heat, yes.

: Mr. Turtur : No further questions.

. 107.

[fol. 34]. - => CoLLogvy © :

The Court: The jury requested me to say thicagh the
Clerk that they took’up some dust and ama like to have
it analyzed by an.impartial chemist. _

Mr. Rudner: I think Mr. Turtur made some mention
about the plant, that Mr. Turtur has his: chemist who will
pass upon it. There is some of the powder in evidence that
was worked on in this particular plant.. This is powder
that was taken from one of: the raised-——

The Court: Just today? —

Mr. Rudner: We will both submit analyses.

The Court: Well, the jury want an impartial, one, they
want an independent one.

Mr. Turtur: I have no abjection to that, your Honor. |

Mr. Rudner: I suppose on the ingredients of the powder
there i is going to be no-dispute, I don’t know.

The Court; Well, they want it anyway. Do you have any
objection to their having it? |

Mr. Rudner: Oh, no.

Mr. Turtur: I have it marked. This was taken from the |
upper level mix room.

Mr. Rudner: There will be chemists who will analyze it.
[fol. 35] Mr. Turtur has one or more chemists. om

The Court: The jury want an impartial ck emist.

. Mr. Rudner: That’s all right.
: The Court: Dr: Wiener.

( At this point an adjournment | was ‘taken to Wednesday,
June 10, 1936, at 10: 30 A. = ames

(fol. 36 Wednesday, June 10, 1936,
10:30 A. M,

Case gontinned.
Appearances as before.

Mr. Rudner: Your Honor has limited the proofs in this
ease to the silicate department by rulings of yesterday.
Now I think it well to present these: facts to your Honor, :
‘so that we can save the time of your Honor, and the jury.
and everyone else.. I think that counsel admits that this man
ceased his employment in the silicate department for all pur-.
poses, and never went —_ either i in the Fall of 1932, or the

\ .

a

108

s | *
very early Spring of 1933, at the very latest. The suit in
this case, at least the summons, is tested as of October iH
1935. The accident will be definifely barred by the Statute
of Limitations. I don’t think there is any question about
that time, is thgre, Mr. Turtur? I mean we could take proof
for a couple of days, the result¢would be the same.

The Court: Well, I think, of course, the fellow ought to
have his day in court. — ‘ ;

Mr. Rudnet: Your Honor would prefer to take the
proofs? I just present this. You get the dates that I have
reference to? > :

(fol. 37] Mr. Turtur: May I speak, your Honor? ©
- The Court: Yes, certainly. _

Mr. Turtur: Your Honor please, at the time the deposi-
tions were taken at Mr. Matey’s house, there was no objec- |
tion by Mr. Rudner as to the time that he worked in the other

_departments, and I think that the objection now comes too

— late, but in order that this matter may- get to the jury and
dispose of this case on its merits, would like to amend my |
complaint. 7

The Court: Of course, I don’t see—the trouble is—I mean
you blame your client for that, and say you couldn’t make
out where he worked. I don’t understand how that could
be éxactly. |

‘Mr. Turtur: The reason fer it, your Honor, he was very
ill, and I had to keep going thereto get a definite and posi- |
tive history from him, and as son as he retained me he |
told me that it was in the silicate department, and I didn’t |
know of anything in the phosphate department until months |
afterwards. Because of the condition of the man he couldn’t :

- "properly think, he couldn’t properly speak. Now the lead- _ |
ing case in the State, if your Honor please, as to the amend-
ment of acomplaint——

[fol. 38]° The Court: I would like not to have him faced
with the Statute of Limitations. .

Mr. Rudner: Well, we have to set up the defense. The
defense is generally recognized when it is there. —

The Court: No, but in these cases where the injured party
—it is not like if I get hit by an automobile; I know I am :
hurt, and if I don’t bring the action in the necessary time d
that is my fault. I don’t blame anybody for pleat ing the
Statute, but in these gradual exposure cases I think it is a
very unsocial performance to plead the Statute. I thought
it was in the radium cases, I think it is in any case.

be | 109

Mr. Rudner: Your Honor, it is a legal situation: which
is presefited in our answer.
The Court;.For that reason I would make every effort
to try to get him past the Statute, but of course, if legally
. . speaking, it cannot: be uphel®in the Court of Appeals—I
think I will excuse the jury a minute.

(The jury was excused at this point.)

The Court: The trouble is of course, Mr. Turtur—lI doh’t
_ know who is to blame for it, but here yoy have permitted a
legal situation to grow up which this company seems to
[fol. 39] think it wige for them to take advantage of. They
‘don’t earn my commendation or any one else’s but never--
theless they have a right to do it, and I cannot prevent them.
Mr. Rudner: In the radium cases that matter was defi- ©
nitely presented. Of course, Judge Forman had.an equity
proceeding, but it is there—— .
The Court: Well, I say, I have said quite publiely what .
I think of the radium company for their performance. I
think every oke else thought so, too. on
Mr. Rudner: Well, Judge Clark, I suppose it depends
on circumstances. |
The Court: After all, people are ignorant, and the radium
company didn’t make any attempt to warn them, maybe be--
cause they didn’t know that they should warn them. Never-
_ theless, they were injured and they did die.. |

Mr. Rudner: There is nothing dangerous about this.

The Court: Now the jury reported to the Clerk and the
Clerk reported to me that the conditions at your plant were.
shogking—Now, just a minute, Mr. Rudner; and in the case,
the other silicosis case I had, the company had taken a lot
of precautions. They had these fans, and these suction fans,
they had everything. So in.the Circuit Court of Appeals
[fol. 40] reversal of me there was that substantial justice
that they did take a lot of precautions, and the precautions

_ were not effective, I though-, but they did take precautions.
Now as I understand it, your company hasn’t taken any.

Mr. Rudner: We have windows there, and the matter of
experience is very favorable, your Honor. There has never |
been any injury in this plant. | . Tes

_ The Court: Well, this fellow did get pretty sick, didn’t he?
Mr. Geuther: Judge Clark, I might say this. First of all,
I don’t want to be characterized by your Honor’s feeling ©

2

“

a —

“= 110 4, | | ae

as to the company’ s action in this. matter: I am _—
merely a8 counsel as Mr. Rudner is.
The Court: A don’t know, maybe your company is one of

those companies which have very curious views of social. ,

policies.

Mr. Geuther: Iw will say in the radon cases the cause and |
the condition were @ frankly’ admitted.

' The Court: Originally they tried to say that dies had
syphillis, and everything elsé. - I was the person who con-
vinced them; at least, Dr. Martland and I weré the ones
who convinced them that they were suffering from radium
poisoning. Everybody admits it now, but they didn’t admit -
it at first.

[fol.41] Mr. Geuther: I think your judgment has been
preVen since. —

The Court: Three of the five girls are dead.

Mr. Geuther: But in this case there is not only a very
honest’ and substantial question of doubt, but we feel
definitely that this ‘man’s condition is not due to that.

The Court: But you are not trying to set that up now.
You are trying to prevent the jury considering that. :

Mr. Geuther: But we feel that as Mr. Rudner says, there
ig a legal question there.

The Court: All right. ‘Then you are e taking advantage
of the technicality. |

Mr. Rudner: Strictly, that j is so, but the } law is there and
we didn’t make it. It is there for a definite reason.: |

Mr. Turtur: On the question of taking advantage of the

technicality, if I may with due deference, Judge Acker-

son——
The Court: What’s this, in the Court of Appeals?
Mr. Turtur: This was affirmed in the Court of Appeals

verbatim, your Honor, in the tase of O’Shaugnessy vs. the

Bayonne News Company. On the subject of amendment

— [fol. 42] affirmed verbatim by the Court of Errors and Ap-

peals in 109 New Jersey Law, page 271, and I have some
more citations.

The Court: Have you. any law, Mr. Rudner?

Mr: Rudner: Yes.
~ The Court: Let me see your cases. ~

Mr. Rudner: Here is a statement by Judge Wells, Court

_ of Errors ‘and Appeals, 111 Law, Allen vs. Spring Street

Realty Company. ;
(Reading from the case.)

‘ ° al
a ; “ , ‘ Ain 33
. - a ‘

on | | . 7

' he Gourt: Neither of these cases is anything but gener-

alities. .

- ; 2

(Mr. Rudner cites also the ase of. Casavela, 12 New Jer-
sey Miscellaneous, 81, affirmed 113 New Jersey Law, 328,
reading from the case.) . |

= ll

The Court: Let me see the complaint. - "=
| Mr. Rudner:. If-you take the complaint z-
’ The Court: That is just what I am taking.
Mr. Turtur,: I have some more law, your Honor please.
The Court: You see the unfortunate fact is that what
’ really caused the first injury, if anything did, is this silicate,
and because you say he didn’t tell you that, or you didn’t
think about the Statute of\Limitations
Mr. Rudner: Of course, if your Honor please——.
[fol:43] The C

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Source: Frix Law Library, https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40386010_0282%3A1. Public record. Not legal advice.