# Transcript of Record — Earle & Stoddart, Inc. v. Ellerman's Wilson Line, Ltd. > Briefs, arguments, decisions, and more. URL: https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40386008_0259%3A02 ## Record - **Collection:** Supreme Court brief - **Document type:** Transcript of Record - **Published:** January 1, 1932 - **Citation:** 287 U.S. 420 ## Text 5 ay i ARIA y Opa er ie tara S ey 2 TORO MEDS RTA NENE pit nadie ce ghite 4 erates om, PEEVES ea ey ae eee Ee ye Seat rec R ICES ERS oS Ma wid ay Laie ag = “A a fs Ba steer (36,623) SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES OCTOBER TERM, 1932 No. 20 EARLE & STODDART, INC., ET AL., OWNERS OF CARGO ON STEAMSHIP ‘“tALILEO”’, PETI- TIONERS, vs. ELLERMAN’S WILSON LINE, LTD., OWNER OF STEAMSHIP ‘‘GALILEO’”’ ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SECOND CIRCUIT VOL. IL. INDEX Original Print Testimony ofCharles Barron...........seeeesseseees 331 255 SORE CMI 86s CO Oa aes 874 292 Cle” MEMO Ss ies ER So See's Cease cece 416 328 Sob Th: NOR seis veer it ec cenesceeces 422 334 TRRGUY J; THR. Seki ceca sibcceccscs 447 355 John H. Neale (recalled).............. 457 364 SOM Bi TASC oa ss ei tes 459 366 Rely A SS is NARS 488 388 Robert H. Laverie.............+e00.00- 504 402 Robert S. Haight.................0005- 516 412 Charles EB. Ross... .....ceccccssscscees 519 414 Os Ths PO Sa GR EN teenies 520 415 Fletcher H. Starr............cc.ceeeeee 539 429 William P. Brakenbury................ 566 451 Jupp & Derwerter (INc.), Printers, WasHinaton, D. C., May 12, 1982 ii INDEX. Original Print Testimony of Frederick Ellison (recalled)........-.- 601 480 William P. Brakenbury (recalled)...... 602 481 S. W. Parr (recalled) .......-...-++++- 603 482 Horace C. Porter (recalled)........... 627 500 Alfred E. Jordan...........seeeeeeeeee 635 506 John L. Stanley (recailed)...........- 647 515 Fletcher Starr (recalled).............. 640 517 Libellants’ exhibits: 1—Photoprint of lower deck of “Galileo” between the No. 2 and No, 3 hatches looking forward, marked in evidence at POND BBR. SS acs ode ccncccedsccscceede 659 §25 2—Photoprint, same as Exhibit 1 canes that the view is toward the starboard side, marked in evidence at folio 285....... 660 526 8—Photoprint, same as Exhibit 1 except that the view is looking aft on the port side forward, marked in evidence at folio ESS ean cb dk sedetseres Cticacaen Oak 527 4—Photoprint, same as Exhibit 1 but show- ing the compartment containing the sill piece, marked in evidence at folio 289. . 662 528 5—Photoprint, same as Exhibit 1 but show- ing the compartment with the caked coal and grease, marked in evidence at folio 290..... nec ge Vee dues + Kase tke, oe 529 6—Photoprint, looking down into the vessel thru the No. 2 hatch, marked in evi- dence at folio 292..... pekebicsesiiuwes 664 530 7—Photoprint, view of the upper between deck compartment between No. 2 and No. 3 hatches, looking aft, marked in evidence at folio 298............+-++- 665 531 &—Photoprint of the caked coal and grease in the No. 3 lower between deck, marked in evidence at folio 295....... 666 532 9—Photoprint, showing first, view of bridge looking forward, marked in evidence at folio 206........cereececee ssh Patie'ae Ge 533 9a—Photoprint, view of No. 2 hatchway, taken from the bridge, marked in evidence at folio 206........-.-+00+-- 668 534 9b—Photoprint, view of the fore deck, taken from forward of No. 1 Latch, marked in evidence at folio 296........+-...+- 669 535 9c—Photoprint, view of the after deck taken from the stern, marked in evidence at folio 296....... gies wa Siaceiniieanre th FN Ree 670 536 9a—Photoprint, view of the engine and boiler room casings on vessel, marked in evi- dence at folio 296.........seeeeeeeeee 871 537 —— INDEX. ll Libellants’ exhibits: Original Print 9e—Photoprint, view of the after deck look- ing aft, marked in evidence at folio PO ef eu kd pbasisenaeere dsun oth asp. c:0:4 672 538 9f—Photoprint, view of one of the holds looking down into the hatchway, marked in evidence at folio 206...... 673 539 10—Photoprint of a sketch of the arrange- ment of the between decks of the steamship “Galileo”, marked in evi- GROG OE Gi cis kncics ceuccss ue wae 674 540 11—Photoprint, sketch, marked in notideia at folio 305..... FéAe shia ee heh od snk da5 675 541 12—Photoprint, sketch of the deck plan of the lower between decks and shows the locations of the No. 2 hateh, No, 3 hatch, the grain feeder, wooden bulk- head, the ventilators and the passage- ways, marked in evidence at folios SOS OU BR ays sees ee aches RS cepaeses CO 542 18—Photoprint, sketch showing where the coal and cargo was, marked in evidence OE BIND ee kde caviedk sec e elk iiiwes 677 543 14—Letter, dated pean 20th, 1927, and photoprints, three sheets, report, marked for identification at folio 360. 678 544 15—Radio messages, marked in evidence at SRR ph Se a eee abesseas> C8 547 16—Report made by the chief qugtuner sur- veyor for Lloyds’ Register of British and Foreign Shipping, on Spontaneous Combustion of Coal, dated London, May, 1912, only pages 16 and 17 of pamphlet printed, remainder omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked in evi- dence at folio 374...... eeed¥cbwacue's 684 548 17—Official instruction issued by British Board of Trade, dated December, 1922, only pages 1, 2, and 3 up to para- graph 6 are printed, remainder omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked in evi- dence at folio 375................ 689 551 18—Photoprint of plan of the sheumehip “Galileo”, marked in evidence at folio 412 ee TT Te Te PO en 693 554 19—Pamphlet, called “Fires t Steamship Bunkers and Cargo Coal”, issued 1923, omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked in evidence at folio 597............... 694 20—Stipulation of facts, marked in evidence GE FG EE Vic icdunctccuiewabasadeednes 555 lv INDEX. Libellants’ exhibits : Original Print 21—Photoprint, sketch showing the position of the two pieces of wood which formed the slot, marked in evidence at folio GOO 24 acinus Fc EWE ede ee eee ba cabs de'eoe-s 697 557 22—Photoprint, bill of tating covering the shipment of 8 pieces of plates, signed by W. J. Chatfield, marked in evidence at folio 1299. ....... cee eeceereeneeees 698 558 23—Photoprint of invoice of the United States Steel Products Company, covering 8 pieces of steel, marked in evidence at folio 1300....... sie Re ee aes owing: 699 559 24—Photoprint, stowage plan, marked in evi- dence at folio 1358..........seeeeeee 700 560 25—Photoprint, sketch, marked in evidence at TollO 1484........ cece eeeeereeees 701 561 26—Lioyd’s Calendar, 1926, Fires in Bunkers and Coal Cargoes, Risks of Spontaneous Combustion, pages 267-269, remainder omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked in evidence at folio 1448............-- 702 562 27—Photoprint of sketch, marked in evidence at folio 1584........cceeeeee ec eeeeeees 707 566 28—Pamphlet by O. P. Hood on Factors in Spontaneous Combustion of Coal, 1922, omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked for identification at folio 1602 and marked in evidence at folio 1613...... 708 567 29—Printed herein at page 724 as Respond- ent’s Exhibit 29.........-eseeeeeeeers 708 567 30—Photoprint, sketch, marked in evidence at folio 1920.......... ee eeeeeeeeeenes 709 568 Respondent’s exhibits: A—Photoprints of mate’s log book of “Galileo” covering period May 15, ~ 1926, to August 22, 1926; page con- taining August 19 to August 22 photo- printed, remainder omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked in evidence at folios 878 and 976.......--eeeeeeeeee 710 569 B—Photoprints, log bodk, marked in evidence at folios 889 and 977.......+0-+0++- 711 570 C—Photoprint, cablegram, dated June 23, 1926, marked in evidence at folio 1004. 712 571 D—Photoprint, cablegram, dated August 20, 1926, marked in evidence at folio 1018. 713 572 E—Photoprint, memorandum bearing Ox- toby’s handwriting, marked in evi- dence at folio 1143........eeeeeeeees oe 573 — INDEX. Respondent’s exhibits: Original F—Photoprint of report, marked in evidence at folio 1159...... ein katte Noh eee thw abebel.. Aa G—Photoprint, copy of letter delivered No- vemser, 1925, marked in evidence at folio 1184..... puveees ee neha kcal asien 716 H—Affidavit of Oxtoby re Stanenita story, omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked for identification at folio 1241........ 717 I —Photoprint, copy of voyage for June voy- age, marked in evidence at folio 1284.. 718 J—Manifest of “Galileo” cargo for June, 1926, voyage, omitted pursuant to stipulation, marked in evidence at folio SOO Ssivdwadceebs cued ee wleba Wabi «aes 719 K—Photoprint of copy of agent’s report for voyage 107, marked in evidence at folio eee cieccaess PSEC SEN tage Penne ee 720 L—Manifest for August voyage, omitted pur- suant to stipulation, marked in evi- dence at folio 1291....... vbsaame eas. ae M—Photoprint of certificate, marked in evi- dence at folio 1485.............c0000. 722 18b—Photoprint, orig. :al plan, marked in evi- dence at folio 1708........ bwed vtipesne 723 29—Photoprint, marked in evidence at folio DONO PE Gd cseerseebe Se Fe a SPY eee pag 724 Stipulation as to notice of claim......... Seie seca arate 725 Memorandum by Coleman, J...... ATS ON aS ee eer 726 Decree ....sesse00. Sida vee ee Latina a ceeeae Sieben Diane, ee Notice of appeal............. ec cchekeuasees A eWcheveins 747 Assignment of errors....... pe rule ne bee san binekawereat 7 Stipulation as to exhibits..... Ouneseebeewns Speed obese s 780 eee SOD DODNUE is 55 oo.d's Sods iah beeen dbeeberete 783 Clerk’s certificate......... .+...(omitted in printing).. 784 Supplemental transcript of record............... woke bewes 785 Testimony of John J. Chenin. abausé eave bhemada tee 785 Respondent’s Exhibit “A”—Memorandum as to coal. 807 Respondent’s Exhibit “B”’—Plan of S. S. Marengo...... 808 Stipulation as to supplemental record.................. 810 Proceedings in United States circuit court of appeals, second circuit ....... Pee aknle CCeseben step ecs Jia wha wens ww he des 811 ION, TOW, Si ooh nied 6.6.04 bin bo-4 ced) Rcd alae yhesppesacce Man NOE Kadiwawes os Engr ob 00h Os5s bhKES EAC HAS CREAN Ew ESE Wace 819 Clerk’s certificate...... ehe Chae OmaA (omitted in printing).. 820 Order allowing certiorari...........scccccccscccsecceseess S821 ————— 255 _ A. Where they came down. Q. And that is the only fastening that you used to make your covers tight to the bulkhead? A. Just held it onto the bulkhead; that is all. Redirect examination. By Mr. Keating: Q. Mr. Ellison, what became of the scrap logs on this voyage? A. The scrap logs? Q. Yes. A. When the ship was run on the shore, I said to the third mate—— Q. Never mind telling me what happened; I am asking you what was done with it. Was it lost? . It was lost. . It was lost? . Went down, and it was lost. - These were the only logs what you saved? . This is all I saved. Did you save the ship’s articles? I did. Did you lose any of your clothes? . Yes, I did lose my clothes. Q. Mr. Ellison, while you were on board this ship, did you ever wash down No. 3 ’tweendecks with a hose? A. No, sir; oh, no, sir, never did that. POPOPOPOD Cuakies Barzon, a witness called on behalf of the re- spondent, being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Direct examination. By Mr. Keating: Q. Are you a master mariner? A. Yes, sir. Q. How long have you held a master’s license? A. Since 1895, Q. How old are you, captain? A. 58. [fol. 332] Q. How many years have you been going to sea? A. 44 years. Q. Did you start at the bottom and work yourself up to captain? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where was your home, when you started? A. Hull. Q. Have you been with the same company all these years? A. Sailing on sailing ships, and then when they were owned by Bailee & Leetham, and then later by the Wilson line, and then finally with the Ellerman’s Wilson line. Q. So you have beep with the same interests how many years—same steamship company or its predecessor in in- terest, approximately. A. About 39 years. By the Court: Q. Are you still with them? A. Still with them, sir. Q. What are you doing now? A. I am here, sir. Q. I mean, are you captain of a boat now? A. Yes, sir, I was until I came here. Mr. Keating: We had to take him off a ship to bring him here. : By Mr. Keating: Q. Is your master’s license a British Board of Trade license? A. Yes, sir. Q. For what—unlimited? A. Unlimited. Q. Unlimited? A. Unlimited, all seas. Q. How many years have you actually served as a mas- ter as distinguished from having had a master’s license? How many years? A. 29 years. {fol. 333] Q. You have been a shipmaster actually in com- mand 26 years? — 257 A. 29 years, that is up to now; 26 years up to the time of the ‘‘Galileo’’. About how many steamers have you been captain of? . I would say approximately about twenty. And how did they vary in tonnage? From 1000 tons up to 6000 tons. Were you master of the ‘‘Galileo’’ in August, 1926? Yes, sir. How long had you been master of the ‘‘Galileo’’? . From October, 1925. You joined her in October, 1925? . Yes, sir. As master? As master. . Had you served any other steamers of the same line running between Hull and New York? A. No. Q. This was your first? A. First voyage to America. Q. First voyage in that trade? A. In that trade. Q. Was there a coal strike in England in the Spring and Summer of 1926? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, prior to June 21, where had you taken your coal for the round trip prior to June? A. 1921? Q. 1926, prior to June, 1926. A. In Newcastle, and once in Rotterdam, in Holland. Q. About what is the capacity of the ship’s bunkers, if you remember, the permanent bunkers? A. About 740 tons; I could not say exactly. Q. When you were coaling on the other side for that round trip prior to June, before the coal strike, did you fill up your permanent bunkers? . Yes. [fol. 334] Q. In Hull? A. In Newcastle. ? 3 did you carry any extra coal, any surplus coal? es Q. Where did you carry that? A. In No. 3 lower hold. E opopopepepore 17—809 258 -Q. And when you got to New York, was there always something done regularly about the coal that was carried in No. 3 lower hold? A. Yes; we discharged the coal from the lower hold and put it in the permanent bunkers. Q. And used that up? A. And used it up. Q. And that process went on up until June, 1926? A. Until the strike. Q. Until the strike? A. Yes. Q. You arrived here, I think it appears from the chief officer’s testimony, on or about June 21st, 1926? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you bring over any coal for the round from Eng- land on that voyage, in No. 3 hold, or was the coal strike on? A. No, the coal strike was on. Q. So you had no coal in No. 3 at that time? A. No. Q. In No. 3 lower hold? A. In No. 3 lower hold, no. Q. Now, when you were here, did you receive any or- ders? I don’t want you to tell me what the orders were; but did you receive any orders with respect to bunkering in New York for the round voyage? A. Yes, sir. Q. From whom did you receive the orders? A. From Mr. Sanderson. Q. Who was Mr. Sanderson? A. The agent for the Wilson Line. Q. He was corinected with the New York agents of your owners—is that correct? A. Wilson, of Hull. [fol. 335] Q. Where is Mr. Sanderson—do you know? A. He has died since. Q. He is dead? A. Yes. Q. Will you tell me what your orders were with respect to coaling, in June, 1926—what orders did you receive? A. Take sufficient coal for the round voyage, that means from New York to New York, via Hull to New York again. —_— 259 Q. I show you a cable, captain, dated June 23, 1926, and I ask you if you ever saw that cable before. If you did not see it, say so; if you did, tell me whether you saw it or not. A. No. Q. You never saw that cable? A. Never saw it. Q. Now, when you got the order to coal for the round, what did you do with respect to it? Mr. Jones: May I see that cable? (Examining same.) Mr. Keating: I offer this cable in evidence, with Mr. Jones’ permission. (Same received in evidence and marked Respondent’s Exhibit C.) Q. Now, after you received the order to bunker for the round voyage, did you take the matter up with the chief engineer? A. Certainly. Q. And what did you and the chief engineer do, together, if anything, about—first off, of all, did you discuss.the amount that it would be necessary to take? A. Yes, sir. Q. And do you remember how much you decided would be necessary? A. No. Q. The chief engineer and you did decide on some amount; is that correct? A. We conferred together as to what amount we should take. Q. After you had conferred, did you go and make any [fol. 336] examination of the ship to determine where you would put the coal? A. Well, we arranged to put it in the—fill the perma- nent bunkers up and No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter decks. Q. You decided to put the coal in those spaces? A. Yes. : Q. Who decided that? Mr. Jones: I object, if your Honor please, as to who decided it; it is a conclusion. Mr. Keating: This is the man in charge of the job. 260 Q. Was it your decision? A. I decided; it was my decision; we both agreed. Q. You decided it? A. I decided it; I made the final decision; there was no dispute about it. The Court: Just so that Mr. Jones may be protected, I overrule the objection and give an exception to him. Q. You heard the chief officer testified with regard to the space of No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter deck? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was his testimony accurate? A. As near as I can say. Q. I show you these sketches, and just ask you to look at Exhibits 10, 11 and 12, and ask you whether, approxi- mately, those sketches are correct as far as you can recol- lect (handing same to witness). A. On sketch No. 10—— Q. That is Exhibit No. 10? A. Exhibit No. 10, the wooden bulkhead which separates the shelter deck from No. 2 shelter deck, I think is a little [fol. 337] bit too far forward, according to my recollection. Q. Other than that, are the sketches all right? A. Other than that they are; yes. Q. Before you decided to load this surplus coal into No. 3 shelter deck and No. 3 ’tweendecks, did you actually go down into those spaces in June, yourself, with the chief engineer, and do you recollect whether you went down? A. I don’t recollect. Q. You don’t recollect? A. I don’t recollect. Q. Had you, while you were master of the ship, ever car- ried any coal—prior to June—in No. 3 ’tweendecks? A. No. Q. In June, latter part of June, 1926, it has been testified that No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter decks were filled up with coal; is that correct? A. That is in June? Q. June. A. Yes, sir. Q. And was that the first time that any coal had ever been carried in the ’tweendecks, so far as you know? A. As far as I know. — Q. While you were master? A. While I was master. Q. You sailed from New York, I believe it has been testi- fied, on July 2nd? A. July 2nd. Q. In July, I think it was on July the 2nd, or there- abouts, for Hull? A. Yes, sir. Q. And that you errived in Hull, in June, the 19th, ap- proximately. A. Approximately July 19th. Q. July 19th? A. Yes, sir. Q. That you carried grain in No. 3 lower hold on that June voyage; is that right? A. Yes, sir. Q. And was that grain discharged in Hull? A. Yes, sir. [fol. 338] Q. In order to get that grain, what had you done to the coal in No. 3 ’tweendecks and shelter decks? A. Took that down and shifted it into the permanent bunkers. Q. That is, you had taken some of it out? A. Taken some of it out; approximately 200 tons. Q. Out of the ’tweendecks? A. Out of the ’tweendecks and the shelter deck. Q. And that was shifted into your permanent bunkers? A. It was shifted into the permanent bunkers. Q. When you were in Hull, in June, do you know what was intended to do with your ship when you came back? A. I heard the ship was, on the next voyage, would be laying up to get refrigerated—to get her refrigeration fixed up. Q. To get her refrigeration fixed up? A. To get her refrigeration fixed up. 261 Mr. Jones: You said in June; you meant in July? The Witness: In July. Q. In other words, when you completed your August trip, you were to be laid up in Hull? A. August voyage. Q. In order to install refrigeration? A. To put refrigeration in. a 262 Q. You sailed from Hull, and you eventually arrived in New York, I believe it was testified it was August the 17th; am I right about that—about August the 17th? A. About August the 17th. Q. When you arrived, do you know about how much coal you had left in your No. 3 ’tweendecks? A. About 160 tons. [fol. 339] Q. That is as near as you can figure? A. As near as I can tell, to a few tons; it is impossible to tell to a ton. Q. Had you expected to take any coal here in August on your return home, any extra coal? A. Well, we had to have sufficient to take us back to Hull. Q. And were you going to coal for the round on that voyage? A. No. Q. After you arrived here, did you receive any orders about coaling here in New York in August for the round voyage? A. Yes, I ordered coal sufficient to coal us back to Hull, and then about August the 20th or somewhere around there we received an order to take 850 tons of coal for the ‘‘Fran- cesco’’, who was taking our place. Q. In other words, you were not going to take the coal for the round voyage yourself? A. No. : Q. You were to take some extra bunkers for some other ship? A. Yes, sir. Q. What was the name of that ship? A. I believe the ‘‘Francesco’’. Q. What were you going to do with those extra bunk- ers when you got to Hull? A. Discharge it into the ‘‘Francesco’’. Q. I show you a cable dated August the 20th, 1926, and ask you if you ever saw that cable before. If you didn’t see the cable, tell me (handing same to witness). A. Never seen it before, sir. Mr. Jones: I have no objection to this, this is from the owners in Hull to the Wilson Line here in New York. Mr. Keating: To the New York agent. Mr. Jones: No objection. 263 [fol. 340] Mr. Keating: I offer this cable in evidence as Respondent’s Exhibit D. (Same received in evidence and marked Respondent’s Exhibit D.) Q. Who told you that you were to take this extra coal, this extra 850 tons, for transference to the ‘‘Francesco’’? A. Mr. Sanderson. Q. That is the same Mr. Sanderson that you spoke of a moment ago, that is now dead? A. Yes, Mr. Lloyd Sanderson. Q. After you got those orders to take 850 tons, what did you do? A. I told the engineer the orders that we were getting, and we conferred as to where we should put them. Q. And what did you decide? A. Well, after the engineering measuring up the space in No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter deck, we just about could get them in there. Q. And you decided to carry them there; is that it? A. Decided to carry them there. Q. In connection with that decision, did you have any advice from the shore? A. None whatever. Q. Did anybody offer you any advice or suggestion as to where those bunkers should be put? A. No, sir. : Q. This matter was decided by you in consultation with whom? A. And the engineer. Q. And he alone, nobody else? A. I cannot say; probably the chief officer was there; we usually work with the chief officer; we got to work together. Q. But nobody was there from the shore? A. Nobody at all; they had nothing to do with it. [fol. 341] Q. Does your company maintain a marine en- gineer or marine superintendent in New York? A. No. Q. You have got a superintending engineer in Hull; is that right? A. Surely. 264 Q. You make your reports to Hull, do you, or to New York, in regard to your—in regard to anything you want to do about the ship? A. To Hull. Q. Do you report to New York, to anybody in New York, about the matters affecting the ship other than the loading of cargo, and so forth? A. No, it is not necessary. If we want any repairs done, we let them know. Q. And they send over? A. No, they do not send it; I inform MacMillan that I want it, and that is left with me. Q. The matter is entirely in your hands? A. Entirely in my hands. Q. When you are in New York? A. Anything in connection with the ship is entirely in my hands. Q. Did you go down into No. 3 ’tweendecks before what has been called here the new coal was put in? Did you go down into No. 3 ’tweendecks at any time? A. Yes, we loaded the lower hold with grain, and then I was very particular that the coal should not get down to the grain; I saw the chief officer batten up this hatch, as near as I can tell, until 5 o’clock, and I left on the 24th of August, and I went down there specially to warn him that he should make a good job of this here, and he was down there and the engineer was also down there. Q. What did you see the engineer doing? A. He was looking at the coal, I would say. Q. Was he walking around? [fol. 342] A. Yes; he stood talking, I mean to say, and re- marked upon the coal, that the space would just about get the new coal in. Q. Now, did you make any personal inspection of the coal? A. When I was there, I saw the coal there, and saw the way it was stowed. Q. How was it stowed? A. Well, it was taken over the hatch coaming, the sides of the hatch—and trimmed so it sloped towards the hatch. The Court: From the sides toward what? The Witness: From the sides of the ship to the hatch coaming, they were trimming it so that it would slope _—— 265 towards the hatch coaming, in a sloping position, I should say from two to three feet from the deck, and about 3 feet from the hatch coaming. By the Court: Q. Two or three feet all over the deck? A. From the top of the deck. By Mr. Keating: Q. From where it is up against the bulkhead? A. From where it is up against the bulkhead, and from where it was against the ship’s side. By the Court: Q. The pile was about two or three feet high on the deck? A. The pile was seven feet high. Q. And two or three feet from what? A. From the deck head, being seven feet deep. Q. From the shelter deck? [fol. 343] A. From the shelter deck, which made a differ- ence of about three feet at the hatch coaming. By Mr. Keating: Q. That is, between it and the hatch coaming? A. All around the sides of the hatch coaming, had to clear that out, so as to get the tarpaulin battened down— nailed down. Q. Now when would all the coal in No. 3 ’tweendecks have been taken out of that space after, if you had continued your voyage? A. Well, out of the ’tweendecks? Q. Out of No. 3 ’tweendecks. A. It would be taken out at the rate of 40 tons a day. Q. That was the coal that you—you burned that coal up as your bunkers? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were your permanent bunkers full when you left New York on your August voyage? A. Well, I could not say. 266 Q. You had taken them—where had you put the coal for transference, that you intended to transfer to the ‘‘Fran- cesco’’—where was that coal? A. In No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter decks. Q. When would it have come out of there, and when would it have been transferred to the ‘‘Francesco’’, on what date? A. It is all according to what sort of a passage I had home—immediately I arrived in Hull. Q. What is your ordinary sailing time from New York? A. 16 days. Q. So, what you are saying is, about the 13th or the 14th of September? A. Give me a calendar, and I will be able to tell you. Q. Of course, we can figure that out later; that would have been about 14 days after you left New York? A. No, about 16 days. [fol. 344] Q. About 16 days after you left New York? A. That would be about the 14th of September. Q. That coal was in a position to be taken out at that time; is that correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. Just what were you going to do with the steamer in Hull when you arrived there? A. After I had discharged her, they were going to lay her up and put this refrigerating plant into her. Q. Now, did you see them loading so-called new coal into — the ship, into the No. 3 ’tweendecks? A. Yes, from the bridge; I did not inspect it. Q. You were not there? A. No, I was not there. : Q. You just happened to see them, as the stuff came aboard? mA, A. As the stuff came aboard; I mean, I saw the lighter alongside, and I saw them bringing it aboard the ship. Q. How did they take it off? A. Put it into hand buckets. Q. Is that put into hand buckets on the lighter? A. It is trimmed into buckets on the lighter and then dumped into barrows. Q. Wheelbarrows? A. Wheelbarrows; and dumped into the hatch coaming. Q. Somebody wheeling the barrow over to the hatch coam- ing? — 267 . Yes, sir. . And then dumped it down into the hatch? . Yes, sir. . You saw them doing that, did you? . Yes, I saw them doing that. . You did not inspect the coal? . No; the engineer did it. . Who is it, on the ‘‘Galileo’’, who had charge of the coal? A. The engineer. Q. And by the ‘‘engineer’’, do you mean the chief engi- neer? A. The chief engineer. [fol. 345] Q. Are you a coal man? A. No, sir. Q. Are you a coal chemist? A. No, sir; they call me a bonehead. Q. Are you a combustion engineer? A. No, sir. Q. Is there anybody else on board the ship that has got charge of the coal in your steamer? A. The engineer is the man, the chief engineer; I look to him, I mean to say, for everything in connection with the coal. Q. Whose responsibility is it—he is responsible, is he? A. The responsibility is his. Q. Whose duty was it, if anybody’s, to make an inspection of the so-called old coal in No. 3 ’tweendecks in August, 1926, before any new coal was taken in? . The engineer’s—chief engineer’s. Was it anybody else’s duty? . No, not to make a special examination of it. You did not make a personal examination? No, I did not make a personal examination. Whom did you rely on? The chief engineer. Did you see him down there? . I saw him down there; yes, sir. Do you know whether he had been down there often? . I should say he had. . Had he been—had you seen him in and out of there on the voyage over, do you know? OPO Popop OPOPOPOPOPOD 268 A. Well, no, I could not say. Q. You could not say? A. I could not say, I kept no track. Q. How many times did you see the chief engineer that you can recall now, if you can recall seeing him, that you do remember seeing him down there—once? A. I remember seeing him down there the day before. [fol. 346] Q. Is that the second occasion? A. That is the second occasion; he was down there be- cause—— Q. What was he down there for the second occasion for? A. I could not say; making an inspection of the coal, | presume. Mr. Jones: I move to strike out whatever the witness presumes. The Court: It may be struck out. Q. Now, who had charge of receiving that coal on board the ship? A. The chief engineer. Q. And who had supervision over its stowage on board? A. The chief engineer. Q. Now, did they eventually fill this space with coal, No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter decks? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, had you ever seen the wooden bulkhead which is in the fore part of No. 3 ’tweendecks between No. 2 ’tween- decks and No. 3 *tweendecks—had you ever seen that bulk- head? A. Yes. Q. Was that bulkhead—was that a temporary wooden bulkhead? A. No; what you call a permanent bulkhead. Q. Was it there when you joined the ship? A. Yes. Q. You don’t know, do you, how long it was there? A. No. Q. It was there during the entire time you were on the ship? A. The entire time I was there. Q. Whose job is it on the ship, to inspect the bulkhead? A. I trusted the chief officer with this duty. ng Q. You trusted the chief officer to do that? A. Yes. Q. Did you ever, personally, inspect the bulkhead closely? A. I am accustomed to go down in the holds every day. {fol. 347] Q. For a look around? A. For a general look around when they are loading cargo. Q. When you got to Hull following what I would call the June voyage, but which really began in July, did you have any damage to the cargo in No. 2 ’tweendecks from the coal that you carried on that voyage? A. None whatever; if there had been any, I would have been the first to know about it. Q. All those complaints immediately come to you? A. All those complaints are made to me as soon as the cargo is discharged, or soon after. I am very particular about this coal getting mixed up with this cargo; that is the reason—one reason why I went down in the ’tweendecks, to see the chief officer battening up the holes and cracks, to make sure it was done to my satisfaction. Q. You wanted to see that the coal dust did not get into any of the cargo? A. I wanted to see that the coal dust did not get into any of the cargo. Q. That is the reason you went down there? A. That is the reason I went down there. Q. Captain, are you able to form any opinion, from hav- ing seen that bulkhead, whether it would be possible for any amount—any considerable amount of air to go through it, assuming there was coal filled in on one side and cargo on the other? A. Yes, I mean to say there would be very little. Mr. Jones: He asked you whether you can form an opinion on that. Q. Can you form an opinion on that? A. This is what we call a dust-proof—— [fol. 348] Mr. Jones: I move that that be struck out. The Court: Strike it out. A. Yes. Q. He says yes. That is, you have an opinion, you answer ‘‘ Yes’’ to that? 270 A. May I have the question read over to me again? Q. Yes, surely. A. I was not quite clear on it. Q. Just repeat it to him. (Question repeated by the reporter as follows :) ‘‘Captain, are you able to form any opinion, from having seen that bulkhead, whether it would be possible for any amount—any considerable amount of air to go through it, assuming there was coal filled in on one side and cargo on the other?’’) In other words, can you form an opinion in your mind; in other words, what opinion have you, if you have an opinion? A. I would think that no air would get through that bulk- head. Q. No; I want to know whether or not you have any opinion, whether it might or might not; that is something that I am going to ask you about afterwards; I want to know whether you have something in your head, an opinion. A. Yes, yes. Q. Now, captain, could, in your opinion, assuming that coal was on one side of that bulkhead, which you saw, and cargo on the other, would it have been physically possible, in your opinion, for any considerable amount of air to pass through the bulkhead? A. It could not. Mr. Jones: I object to that, if your Honor please. In the [fol. 349] first place, I don’t think the witness is qualified, has shown any qualifications to answer the question. My main objection is that the coal on one side and cargo on the other, and it seems to me that the question does not state the facts which he should state. I assume what my friend means is whether it is possible through the cargo and through the bulkhead, and then through that coal, and that I think is quite irrelevant to the inquiry. I think it is vague, and does not help us very much. I would like to have the captain describe to us the bulkhead so we may know some- thing about it. Mr. Keating: You can cross examine on that; he is a master mariner in charge of the ship; he can describe it. The Court: I sustain the objection on the ground of in- competency, with an exception to you. I will specify that I — 271 mean it is incompetent in form, and in addition to that I think it is a matter of common knowledge, and not a proper subject for expert testimony ; and furthermore, the witness himself has not been proved competent on the question of whether or not air would pass through. I, don’t know that he knows any more about that than I. If it is a proper sub- ject for expert testimony, you have got. to qualify this man on his ability to determine when a partition is air-tight. I don’t think it is a proper subject for expert testimony. Seems to me it would be a matter of common knowledge from the construction of that bulkhead. Mr. Keating: I should think so too. I imagine that you [fol. 350] and I and all of us know what that bulkhead is, and can form our own opinions; but I think I am entitled to ask the question. Perhaps if I go along a little you will see whether I can ask him any competent question. The Court: The only ground upon which I would con- sider admitting it would be, not on the question of whether or not the bulkhead was air-tight, but whether it was a proper degree of care that he was exercising. I am afraid it is incompetent on that also. The one question here is whether or not he was negligent himself, and his own ideas on the subject, I suppose, might be relevant, the ideas in his head at the time that he ordered this thing done, may be relevant upon the question of whether or not he was exercising due diligence. Mr. Jones: I would like for him to tell how the bulkhead was made, so we can form our own opinion as to whether the thing was air-tight or not. The Court: All right, go ahead, and note an exception for the respondent. (Long discussion off the record.) Q. Now, Captain, did you have a full crew on board, on the August voyage? . Yes. Did you have enough food on board? Yes, sir. And may I assume that you had enough coal on board? . Yes, sir. Did you have any leaks in the ship? . None whatever. Had you been in any accident? O>Oorore> 272 A. No, sir. ~ — Q. Anything about the ship needing repairs? . No. Q. That you know about? A. No, not on that voyage. Q. Was the ‘‘Galileo’’—do you know whether the ‘‘Gali- leo’? was classed in any classification society—was she rated by anybody on the August voyage? A. A-1 at Lloyds. Q. Subsequently it was discovered, after you left New York, that there was a fire, and you turned around and eventually your ship foundered, having been filled with water by the Fire Department? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the ship was a total loss? A. The ship was a total loss. By the Court: Q. Has it ever been put into service again? A. No, sir. Mr. Keating: I am informed, sir, she was raised to get her out of blocking the fairway out here, and subsequently sold for scrap in Baltimore and broken up. She was sub- merged for over a year. These pictures were taken im- mediately after she was raised, these photographs (indi- cating). : By Mr. Keating: Q. Captain, had anybody connected with the New York agents given you any instructions where to stow this coal? A. No, sir. Q. Did you get any instructions at all about the coal, other than to take it? A. None whatever; they left it entirely in my hands. [fol. 352] Q. Did Mr. Sanderson or anybody in the New York office, ever come aboard your ship while you were loading? A. Yes, occasionally. Q. Do you know whether they did on this voyage or not? A. I presume they did; every voyage they come aboard one day, probably the day we arrive or the day we sailed. _ —— 273 Cross-examination. By Mr. Jones: Q. Captain, I believe you stated that on your June voy- age, you carried grain in your lower No. 3? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you had your lower No. 3 permanently fitted up for carrying grain, didn’t you? A. Yes; I don’t quite understand what you mean by ‘permanently fitted up’. _ Q. You had a grain feeder running from the shelter deck down into the lower hold? A. That is so. Q. Isn’t it a fact, that in your August voyage, your agents here had booked grain for your lower No. 3? A. Yes. Q. So you could not carry the coal in lower No. 3, could you, because the agents—your agents—had booked grain for the lower No. 3? . No, they had not. You did not book the grain, did you? . No; they booked it. Oh, they had booked it? By the Court: Who booked it—the agents? . The agents would book it. Sanderson? . Sanderson. [fol. 353] By Mr. Jones: Q. And Sanderson was in charge of the owner’s busi- ness here in New York, wasn’t he? A. Represented them. Q. He had sole charge, didn’t he? A. No. Q. Who else had charge, any charge? A. I am in charge. Q. Outside of yourself, Sanderson was the one who had the whole charge? A. Well, he represented the owners. OPop PO >oO 18—809 en meen ENGR + ORE ee anne nee 274 Q. You did not book any cargo for the ship, did you? A. No. Q. You had nothing to do with booking cargo? A. No. Q. And isn’t it a fact that there was a full cargo booked for this ship? A. No. Q. Were not you informed by Mr. Sanderson, when you came to New York, that he had booked a full cargo for your ship? A. No. Q. Did you make up this stowage plan? A. No. Q. Where was this stowage plan made up? A. That was made up—— Q. I am showing you now Exhibit 13. A. What am I to look at? Q. Read him the question. (Question repeated by the reporter.) A. Made up on the pier. By the Court: Q. Who made it up? A. One of the clerks on the pier. Q. One of the clerks on the pier? A. Yes. Q. Sanderson’s clerk? A. Sanderson’s clerk; yes, sir, that was made up when the ship was loaded. [fol. 354] By Mr. Jones: Q. When the ship was loaded? A. Yes. Q. And didn’t you know that there was no other place on the ship where you could have put this additional quan- tity of coal? A. Yes, there was. Q. One minute—which you were carrying for this ‘“Francesco’’, other than the places which you already did put it in? A. T could have put it anywhere. — Q. Where could you have put it? A. In No. 1 hold. Q. No. 1 hold? A. No. 2 hold or No. 3 hold. Q. Wouldn’t you have carried the wheat that they had booked for these holds? A. Probably shut it out. Q. You would not have carried it at all? A. No. Q. Be frank with me, Captain, isn’t this a fact, that you, if you had carried this coal in compartments marked ‘‘A’”’ and ‘‘B’’ on this stowage plan, you would have to shut it out, and not carried it at all? Mr. Keating: Show him the plan. Q. There is the plan; look at it and see and tell me if what I say is not so. A. You mean to infer that no other place that I could have put the coal in down there? Q. Exactly so; I say, it is a fact? A. It could be put in other places. Q. Where else would you have put it? A. I could have put it in the shelter deck and No. 2. Q. What would you have done with the cargo in the [fol. 355] shelter deck of No. 2? A. There was none in it. The Court: Let us see the plan. Q. You mean to say that you could have carried this additional quantity in the shelter deck of No. 2, the whole additional quantity? A. Yes. The Court: Where—right here is it (indicating) ? Mr. Keating: It is marked No. 2, with some sort of a letter. 275 Q. You are showing us the space that you say you could have carried it in? A. Down here (indicating). Q. Mark that space with an ‘‘A’’—that is already marked with ‘‘A’’. A. That is No. 2, I presume (indicating). No. 2 shelter deck. 276 By the Court: Q. You mean put it on the upper deck? A. What we call the lower, or the ’tweendecks, or shel- ter deck. (Discussion off the record between Court and counsel and witness.) Mr. Keating: This space that you are talking about is marked with an ‘‘F’’? Mr. Jones: The space he is talking about is marked ‘‘F’’. Q. Now, the space you have marked ‘‘F’’, Captain, shows from the plan that you had steel plates in there, and that [fol. 356] those steel plates were 60 feet long. Look at the plan and tell me if that is not so. A. I cannot say, I cannot say that. Mr. Keating: Have you got your glasses, Captain? Q. All right; ask him the question over again. Read it to him, (Question repeated by the revorter.) A. How many plates? Q. I didn’t ask you how many; I am not asking you that question; I am asking you—— A. Steel plates? Q. —the one question and only question is, now, does not the plan show that you had steel plates in what you call No. 2 shelter deck, and the steel plates were 60 feet long? . How many of them? I have not asked you that question. . Yes, sir. . It does show that, doesn’t it? Yes. And shows that the steel plates were 60 feet long? . It says so here. Doesn’t it show that there on the plan? . There is 8 steel plates, looks to me like it. It says on this ‘‘8 steel plates 60 feet’’? . This may be inches. You know what you mean by inches, you put two A Q. A Q A. Q. A Q. A Q. A Q. siets dashes for inches, and one for a foot, don’t you? Am I not right about that, Captain? A. Yes. Q. The mate testified that this space which is marked ‘‘B”’ on this plan was 33 feet long; you agree with him on that, don’t you? A. Yes. Q. And will you explain to me whether it would be pos. sible to put steel plates 60 feet long in a space 33 feet long? A. Won’t you repeat that question. [fol. 357] Q. I. won’t ask you that question; it is argu- mentative, and I should not have asked it; anybody would know as well as you do that it could not be done. But I will ask you this question: Isn’t it a fact that if you had placed coal in No. 2 shelter deck, you would have had to place the coal on top of these steel plates? A. I cannot recall where these steel plates were put. Q. Isn’t it obvious, Captain, that you could not have carried the coal in that compartment without putting the coal on top of the steel plates? A. I may have put it in the forepart. Q. How long a space was that space? A. I could not say. Q. You don’t know? I can find out from your plan and demonstrate that without asking you about it. Now, Cap- tain, your orders directed you to carry these bunkers, didn’t they? A. Yes, sir. Q. And they, if they directed you to carry it as bunkers, you knew that they wished you to carry it in this space or these spaces ‘‘A’’ and ‘‘B’’, didn’t you? A. Carry what? Q. You knew that they wished you to carry it there in the permanent or temporary bunker space of this ship? A. They did not say where I was to carry it. Q. Didn’t you know, that if you carried that coal in No. 2 shelter deck, you would have to carry it as cargo? A. No. It is-carried as cargo wherever you put it. Q. Captain, you carried the coal in No. 2 ’tweendecks on a previous voyage? A. No, we did not. Q. No. 3 ’tweendecks, on a previous voyage, I beg your 277 278 pardon; and when you got to Hull, didn’t your owners come aboard? A. A representative of the stevedores. [fol. 358] Q. A man in charge of the owner of the ship, at Hull, came aboard, didn’t he? A. Yes. Q. A marine superintendent? A. Yes, sir. Q. The highest man who has anything to do with the physical operation of your ships, came aboard, didn’t he? A. I could not say. Q. Well, didn’t he come aboard every voyage? A. Yes, sir, no doubt he does. Q. And he went all over the ship, didn’t he? A. I could not say. Q. Doesn’t he always go all over the ship? A. Not necessarily. Q. Isn’t it a part of the routine for him to go all over the ship? A. I don’t know. Q. Do you mean to say that you have been a master of a ship—how many years? A. 29 years. Q. 29 years, and you don’t know that when you come to your home port, your marine superintendent does not go all over the ship? . A. It is not necessary to go all over the ship. Q. Is not that a part of the routine of ship operation? A. No, unless he had something to go for. Q. Didn’t you tell him, as a matter of fact, that you car- ried this coal in your ’tweendecks? A. No. Q. Did you not make a report to him as to the amount of coal you took? A. He knows that already. Q. From whom? A. The engineer. Q. The engineer makes a report to him? A. No. Q. How does he learn, if he does not learn it from the engineer? A. He makes his report to the engineer superintendent. —————— nae 279 Q. To the engineer superintendent? A. Yes. [fol. 359] Q. And is he the man in charge of that part of the owners’ business? A. The bunkers, yes. Q. He came aboard, did he? A. I could not say. Q. Is not that man, that permanent engineer superin- tendent, in your own employ? A. Yes. Q. And the permanent marine superintendent in your own employ? A. Yes, sir. Q. And every time you come to Hull, this man comes aboard, these men that I have just mentioned, come aboard, don’t they? A. I don’t know; if it is necessary, they would come. Q. What? A. If it is necessary, they would come on board. Q. Do you mean to say that the practice in your line is for a marine superintendent, and an engineer superintend- ent, to come on board only in case of accidents? A. Oh, no; they come on board and go all over the ship. Q. Don’t they inspect the ship? A. They inspect the ship occasionally. Q. How often do they inspect the ship? A. Well, I could not say; when necessary. Q. When do you say that it is necessary? A. If there is anything happens, or there is a request to come aboard. Q. Do you mean to say that they only inspect the ship, only when you have an engineer’s request made to inspect the ship? A. No; it may be inspected. Q. How often do they inspect the ship? A. I could not say; depends upon the nature and how thorough an inspection is needed. Q. Be frank with me, captain—— Mr. Keating: I object to this characterization of the wit- ness’ testimony. (fol. 360] Mr. Jones: I think the witness’ evasion of my questions justifies it. 280 Mr. Keating: I do not agree with that. A. (Interrupting.) I am not evading. The Court: No, Mr. Keating, I will allow it; I think it is a just criticism of the witness. Q. Now, isn’t it a fact, that every time you come to Hull, that the marine superintendent and the engineer superin- tendent come aboard your ship and inspect your ship? A. I could not say. By the Court: Q. Captain, cannot you enlighten us a little on the prac- tice? In sitting here, in this Admiralty Part, month after month, I have found, and I have gotten the impression, that that was the general practice in all steamship companies, to have someone come on board the steamship at the end of every voyage. It has been testified to before me in many cases. Is yours a different practice tlan that? A. The assistant superintendent comes on board the ship every time. Q. Somebody in authority? A. Yes, certainly. Q. Someone comes with authority to see and inspect the ship, doesn’t he? A. Yes, sir; certainly. Q. And you say it is always the assistant superintend- ent? A. No; sometimes the superintendent. Q. The superintendent or assistant to the superintend- ent? A. That is so, sir. Q. Invariably comes aboard and makes a more or less thorough inspection of the ship altogether? A. Yes, they do. [fol. 361] By Mr. Jones: Q. And it would be obvious to him that you had carried coal in these ’tweendeck compartments? A. They would know that. You are speaking now of the June voyage? Q. Yes. A. Yes. = aan Q. And it is obvious, too, captain, from this stowage plan, that the only place that you could have carried that coal was in No. 3 ’tweendecks and No. 3 shelter deck and not placed the coal on top of the steel in No. 2 shelter deck? A. I don’t know exactly where I would place it; say in No. 2 shelter deck; there might have been some room; and there might have been room in there apart from the steel plates. Q. I tell you, captain, that in No. 2 shelter deck is about 60 feet long. That that is about its dimensions. Under those circumstances, the steel plates would take up the main part of No. 2 shelter deck, considering the length of it; isn’t that so? A. I don’t know how they are going to get the 60-foot plates down the hatchway. 281 he Court: Are you sure that those plates are 60 feet? Isn’t that the indication on the drawing, that it is 60 feet? Mr. Jones: All I am going by is the plan, your Honor; it says there, as your Honor will see there, 60 with a dash, which usually indicates 60 feet. A, (Interrupting.) It is a physical impossibility to get the plates down there. Q. Captain, did you ever hear of any ship being loaded other than filling up the spaces in the lower part of the ship before filling the spaces in the top part of the ship? A. No. [fol. 362] Q. Nobody else ever did? A. No. Q. And you would have put this coal in the *tweendeck space rather than put it up higher in No. 2? A. But the lower part of the ship was full. Q. And everybody knew you were going to put the coal in that place, didn’t they? A. I don’t know what you mean by ‘‘everybody’’. The engineer and the chief officer all knew it. Q. Mr. Sanderson knew it too, didn’t he? A. I don’t know whether Mr. Sanderson did or not. Q. When you were presented with the plan, he must have known about it; isn’t that so? A. I arranged the plan, presumably. Q. You drew up this plan? SEPP e rs eR 2 eesti ss eee Se Se ee 282 A. I arranged the material. Q. You reported it to Mr. Sanderson in his office, the plan was prepared by Mr. Sanderson’s office? A. After the cargo was in. Q. Before you sailed? A. Before we sailed, I suppose so. By the Court: Q. Who determined where the cargo was to be placed? A. Me, sir. Q. Sanderson had nothing to do about determining about what part of the boat should carry any particular material, do you say? A. It was left entirely to me where to put the cargo. By Mr. Jones: Q. He did not leave it to you as to whether you were to carry this grain or to carry the coal, did he? A. I mean to say, he gives me a list of the cargo; he knows the capacity of the ship, and it is left to me where to place the cargo. [fol. 363] Q. And he told you you had to carry the grain? A. He did not; I had the grain already. Q. You knew you had to carry it in your lower hold, and he knew it too, didn’t he? : A. That is the place were they put grain. Q. That is the place that they carry grain? A. Yes, sir. Q. Everybody knows that, don’t they? A. Certainly. The Court: I think we might shorten this: Dio you con- tend that the owners are not responsible for placing the coal in these holds. Mr. Keating: Absolutely; that is entirely up to the officers of the ship. Our contention is that it is a good place, and that the officers selected a good place to put the coal, and that the shipowners had nothing to do with it at all. Mr. Jones: Our contention is obviously, that when they ordered this additional coal, that the owners must have known from their own plan of the ship, that the owners must have known that they would put it there. 283 The Court: That was made up for cargo use, was it? Mr. Keating: Yes. A. (Interrupting.) It is physically impossible to get these 60-foot plates down the hatch into a 60-foot deck, or any other number of plates of that length in there; I am sure there was no 60-foot plates there. | Q. Very well; you have told us that several times already. [fol. 364] A. Stiil you insist on it that there was these 60- foot plates there. Q. You report, do you not, to your office here, the quan- tity of coal you have when you arrive? A. Yes, I believe I did. Q. And you report the bunkers and the places in the ship where the coal is, don’t you? A. No, sir. Q. Don’t you report, or your chief engineer report, the quantity of coal that is on hanc, the bunkers, when you arrive? A. No, sir. Q. Don’t you have forms which you make out stating the exact quantity that you have got in each bunker? A. No. Q. You have nothing to do with employing the stevedore? A. No. Q. And the stevedore does all the stowing of the cargo? A. Under my directions and my instructions, under my supervision and the chief officer. Q. Isn’t it a fact that when you arrived here, you found this cargo all booked for your vessel? A. That I could not say. Q. You don’t remember? A. I don’t remember. Q. But you had nothing to do with the booking of it? A. I did not book the cargo. Q. Did you have anything to do with the purchasing of the coal that was put in these two compartments? A. No, sir. Q. That is, the shelter deck and the ’tweendeck. A. No. Q. The coal was purchased by Sanderson? A. I don’t know if by Sanderson & Son or the Ellerman’s Wilson. a, Q. Purchased by a representative of the Ellerman’s Wil- son Line; that is right, isn’t it? A. I don’t know. [fol. 365] Q. At any rate, you had nothing to do with the purchase of it? No. Who delivered the coal to you? . Well, they gave me lighters. Did you know where they came from? No. . Do you know by whom it was brought to you? . Lordered it to be sent down alongside the ship. . Mr. Sanderson told you the coal] had been ordered, n’t he? A. I told Mr. Sanderson to order it. Q. You told Mr. Sanderson to order it? A. Yes, after I got orders from Hull to take it. Q. From whom did you get the orders—direct from Hull by cable? A. No; from Mr. Sanderson, Q. Do you mean to say that you told Mr. Sanderson to buy this coal? A. No; I told him to order it alongside. Q. As a matter of fact, what happened was that Mr. San- derson told you to take the coal, didn’t he? . He told me he received instructions from Hull. . He told you you were to take the coal? . To take the coal; and it was passed on to me. . Who actually loaded the coal on board? . The coal gang. . Did you employ the stevedores who did the loading? No. . Who employed them? . I presume it is Mr. Sanderson employed these men. . Now, as I understood you, this coal was hoisted from lighters in buckets? A. Yes. Q. And the buckets were emptied into barrows? A. Yes. [fol. 366] Q. And the barrows were wheeled across the deck? A. Yes. Q. And dumped over the hatch coaming into the hatch- OPOoperep di Q. OPOProrPoror> 285 way and the coal fell over the weather deck down to the *tweendecks ? A. Yes, as near as I can recollect. Q. Was there any trimming done to the coal after it came down to the ’tween decks? . There would be. . Who did that? . Trimmers. . Stevedores? . Trimmers. Trimmers, employed by whom? . By Mr. Sanderson. I show you Exhibit No. 16, and ask you if this book was ever called to your attention? A. I have never seen that book. Q. No one has ever called that book to your attention, has there? A. No. Q. I show you Exhibit No. 17 for Identification, and ask you if that pamphlet has ever been called to your attention. A. Well, I have seen something similar to it. Q. You have seen something similar to that? A. Yes. Q. You know it is an official publication of the Board of Trade, don’t you, by looking at it? OPoOroro> Mr. Keating: I object to that your Honor; how can the man tell that? A. May I look at it again? I see it is by the Board of Trade. The Court: Sustained. Mr. Jones: Exception. (fol. 367] Q. I ask you whether or not the following cir- cular of the Board of Trade was ever called to your at- tention by your owners: ‘*Masters and officers of ships loading coal at ports in the United Kingdom, are warned that accidents have fre- quently oceurred through the ignition of coal gas. All hatchways should therefore be left open, both before and for some time after cargo is shipped, and as the gas may find its way into forecastles and cabins, owing to the bulk- 286 head not being gas-tight, a free circulation of air should be provided for in holds and other spaces below deck. In order to secure adequate surface ventilation, at least two ventilators should be provided for each hold or compart- ment in which coal is stowed; these ventilators should be of wrought iron or wrought steel, fitted with cowls and placed at opposite ends of the compartment, or as far apart as circumstances will permit. In the event of adequate ventilation not being provided, the vessel will be liable to be detained. Any further information required on the sub- ject of ventilation, may be obtained on application to the offices of the Board of Trade.”’ Was that ever called to your attention? A. I know the ship is constructed according to Lloyd’s rules. Q. I didn’t ask you that. A. No, it was not. Q. This was never called to your attention? A. No. Q. You have said that Exhibit No. 17 was never called [fol. 368] to your attention? A. It never was called to my attention. Q. Then was the following notice ever called to your at- tention? ‘Tn the official notices for 1912, issued in Great Britain, Notice 11 coal cargoes, was as follows: The attention of the master is directed to the following recommendations of the Royal Commission appointed to inquire into the causes of spontaneous combustion of coal on board ship; that the breakage of coal in its transport from the pit to the ship’s hold, the shipment of pyritic coal in a wet condition, and especially ventilation through the body of coal cargoes, conduce to spontaneous combustion, even though the coal may not be unfit for conveyance on long voyages; that when coal is being carried on long voyages, the temper- atures in the various portion of the cargo should be tested periodically by thermometers and registered in the log; that with a view to guarding against explosion, free and continuous egress to the open air independently of the hatchways, should be provided for the explosive gases by means of a system of surface ventilation which would be —— CLACTON LENT TN 287 effective in all circumstances of weather; in the event of an- inquiry into any casualty arising on board this ship from spontaneous combustion or explosion, neglect on the part of the master or officers of these recommendations, will be brought to the notice of the court. The master is also [fol. 369] warned that in the event of his vessel being found to be in a state dangerous to human life, either from through ventilation which is conductive to spontaneous combustion of the coal, or from not having sufficient sur- face ventilation to carry off explosive gas, he will render the ship liable to detention for unseaworthiness and him- self and the owners liable for prosecution for taking a vessel to sea in an unseaworthy condition. Masters and owners of ships carrying coal are also warned that gas from the hold or ’tweendecks may find its way into the forecastle and cabins if the bulkheads are not gas-tight. Persons in charge of coal laden ships should bear in mind the dangers resulting therefrom the consequent impropri- ety of introducing naked lights in these places.’’ Was that circular called to your attention? A. Or a similar one that came from or issued by the Board of Trade; it is a notice to mariners of those things. I cannot recall that one. Q. You cannot recall that one? A. I cannot recall that that especial one was; but others similar to that. Mr. Keating: You mean similar ones were received? The Witness: Notices to mariners. Q. Did your owners ever call your attention to this? A. I cannot say that they did; I do not recall it; but similar ones have been; I mean to say, about the dangers of coal and the ventilation of coal. [fol. 370] Q. What days did you receive those? A. I could not tell you. Q. Did you take any precaution at all to prevent air going through this coal? A. There is two ventilators on the deck. Q. How does that prevent air going through the coal? A. No air could go through the coal. It is stowed in what is called dust-tight bulkheads which is as near air- tight as possible to make it. 288 Q. You know a dust-tight bulkhead is not an air-tight bulkhead, isn’t it? A. It is as near air-tight as it is possible to make it. Q. You know it is not air-tight, I didn’t ask you the other question, you know it is not air-tight, don’t you, Captain? A. Well, I don’t suppose any wooden bulkhead is per- fectly air-tight; but what little air gets through that would not affect that. Q. You don’t know a thing about that, do you, whether it would or would not affect it? A. I don’t know anything much about coal; but I know that I know very little about coal. Q. Can you recall any specific time when your owners ealled to your attention, the danger of carrying coal? A. No. Q. And what is to be guarded against in carrying coal? A. No, because we never carried it, but just bunkers. Q. Never carried it? A. No. Q. Do you know whether or not there is a gentleman named Mr. Thomas Nevins, who worked for your owners here in New York? A. Never heard of him. Q. Whom, if anybody, is the superintending engineer of your owners here in New York? A. Haven’t got one. [fol. 371] Q. Who has charge of the physical condition of the ships of your owners here in New York? Do you know a gentleman named Capt. Isbester? Yes. What is his job? . Just an official of the other lines. . He had nothing to do with your ship? . Unless he is called in. . Who ealls him in? A. If it is necessary I would get him to come down on board. Q. If he has no connection with your owners, why do you call him in? OPoporo 289 A. He is superintendent for the combine—he is one of the combines. Q. As a matter of fact, was not he aboard your ship in August and June, 1926? A. I cannot recall it. Q. What do you mean by the ‘‘combine’’? A. I mean to say, there is the Ellerman’s Wilson Line and there is the Ellerman Bouker Hull Line, and there is the City Line. Q. You would say one management runs the whole out- fit? A. I think the Wilson Line is under a separate manage- ment; I don’t know much about it. Q. You made out a manifest before you sailed from New York? A. No. Q. Somebody had to make it out before you sailed. Yes. . Who made out the manifest? . I could not say. . Made out by the office? . Made out by the office. Didn’t you have to swear to it? No. You didn’t swear to it? No. [fol.372] Q. In order to get clearance, didn’t you know and don’t you know, that your manifest had to be filed? A. I suppose so; yes. Q. You had to get clearance yourself, didn’t you? A. No, I go with someone appointed from the office to the customs house to get clearance. Q. Don’t you have to get clearance under your own name as master of the ship? A. Yes. Q. You have to file the manifest to get the clearance? A. I don’t know what they file. Q. Now, Captain, don’t you know as the master of the ship, that you have to go and make an oath? A. That is so. Q. And have to make an oath as to the correctness of your manifest? 19—809 © bPOPOoPOp> ay A. That is correct. Q. What did you mean by telling me that you didn’t know that the manifest was filed? Do you mean to say that you make an oath to a manifest as being correct when you didn’t know it is so? A. I know the manifest is made up and has to be correct; you’ve got to trust to one of the offices to do that, because I cannot identify every item on the manifest. Q. The manifest is made up by the office and you go and swear to it because the office says, ‘*Captain, here is your manifest’’? A. No, I weuld not do that way. Q. What do ‘ou do? A. I got to swear to the manifest, that it is correct. Q. Without reading it over? A. IT have seen some of the things. By the Court: Q. Whom do you say makes it out—the office, or one of the officers? I am not sure I heard you right? A. The office. [fol. 373] Q. The office? A. Yes. Q. That is, Sanderson’s office? A. Sanderson’s office. By Mr. Jones: Q. Then you swear to it without reading it over? A. I read it over—I mean to say, I look at it. Q. What do you mean to say, by telling me just now, that you didn’t know anything about a manifest? A. I didn’t say I didn’t know anything about it. Q. I understood you to say so. A. I didn’t mean that. Q. You didn’t mean a number of things that you testified to here today, did you, Captain? You didn’t mean that you had to stow the coal between No. 3 ’tweendecks because that is the only place you had to stow it? A. I didn’t say I had to stow it. Q. You knew that is a fact, though? A. It is not the fact; I have told you there is other places to stow it. 291 Q. Put it on top of these steel plates? -A. There is plenty of room apart from putting it on top of the steel plates. Q. Where else would you put it? A. Put it in the shelter decks. Q. Where the steel plates were? A. Yes, perhaps by the side of where the steel plates were. Q. In the shelter deck, according to the stowage plan, shows—— A. You say 60 feet long, and you cannot get a 60-foot long plate down there. Q. Don’t you know 850 tons of bunkers is shown on your manifest? Were not they shown as being bunkers, on your manifest? A. 850 tons? Q. Yes. A. In the shelter deck. [fol. 374] Q. You have 850 tons of coal? A. Yes. Q. Which you carried pursuant to orders from your owners? A. Yes. Q. You had to make some notation in your manifest re- specting that 850 tons of coal, didn’t you? A. Yes. Q. What notation did you make in your manifest re- specting the 850 tons of coal? A. I cannot recollect. Q. You cannot? A. No. Mr. Jones: Have you got the manifest? Mr. Keating: No; but we will get it for you if you want it; do you want it? Mr Jones: I should. Mr. Keating: It is filed in the custom house. Mr. Jones: And I will send a subpoena down there for it. (Adjourned to Monday, November 11, 1929 at 10:30 o’clock A. M.) 292 New York, November 11, 1929. ' (Met pursuant to adjournment at 10:30 A. M., present as before.) Mr. Keating: May I proceed, sir? The Court: Yes, certainly. Joun Oxrosy, being duly sworn and examined as a wit- ness for respondent, testifies : Direct examination. By Mr. Keating: Q. Mr. Oxtoby, do you hold a chief engineer’s license? A. Yes, sir. [fol. 375] ©. How long have you held that license? A. Since 1902. Q. And before that did you hold any other license? A. Yes, sir, second engineer’s license. Q. How many years have you been going to sea as a chief engineer? . As chief engineer, 14 years. . Although you held your license longer than that? . Yes sir. . But your actual service has been 14 years? . From—yes, from 1915. And how many years going to sea as an engineer? . Well, since I was 21—33 or 34 years. You have practically served all your manhood as an engineer on ships? A. Yes, sir. Q. Coal burners? A. All coal burners. Q. And from whom did you get your chief engineer’s license? A. Board of Trade. Q. British Board of Trade? A. British Board of Trade. Q. How many years have you been wholly employed by the Ellerman’s Wilson Line, Ltd.? A. About 29 years, sir. Q. You are still in their employ? OPoOPopop — ees oe . Yes, sir. Are you married? . Yes, sir. Where is your home? . 53 Claremont Avenue, Beverly Road, Hull. Have you any children? Yes—six. When did you join the ‘‘Galileo’’? November—on or about November, 1924. 1924 or 1925? 1924. 1924? 1924. And how long did you serve on her? . That is since I was chief, I was appointed chief over here i in 1924, but I was second engineer of her before that. [fol. 376] Q. When did you join her as second engineer? A. 1908. Q. How long, all told, have you served on the ‘‘Galileo’’? A. About 9 years altogether. Q. Are you sure that it was November, 1924, when you joined the ‘‘Galileo’’ as chief engineer? A. Yes, yes, yes. Q. Where was she at that time? A. She was in Hull. Q. Had she been undergoing any repairs, or anything of that sort? A. Not in 1924, no. Q. Where did she go during the year 1924? A. She went on her usual runs. Q. Which were they? A. Hull, Boston, New York, Newcastle; they varied; that was about her usual run. Q. Her usual run was New York, Boston and Hull, New- castle, is that right? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, prior to June, 1926, where used you to coal for the round, if you did coal for the round? A. Well, either in Hull or in Newcastle. Q. What is the capacity of your permanent bunkers? A. 740 tons. Q. Where did you carry, prior to June, 1926—where did you carry your surplus coal? 293 POPOPOPOoPoperer oa 294 A. In the No. 3 lower hold. Q. Was that the usual practice? A. Coming out it is, yes. Q. That is, if you were coming from Hull to New York you carried surplus coal in No. 3 lower hold? A. No. 3 lower hold, yes. Q. When you got to New York what was done with that coal? A. Well, it was taken out of there and put in the per- manent bunkers. Q. And then you would sail back with that coal in your bunkers? A. Yes, sir. (fol. 377] Q. And go through the same process again, is that right? A. Yes, sir. Q. Sort of.a circle? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, in the Spring and Summer of 1926 was there any difficulty with coal in England? A. Yes, sir, there was a coal strike on. Q. And during that period were you able to get any coal in England? A. No, no, no, not able to get any coal. Q. Now, when you arrived here in June, I think it was the 21st of June, according to the libel, did you have any coal in No. 3 lower hold at that time? A. No, no. Q. Now, did you have on any surplus bunkers in New York on that trip? A. On that trip, yes. Q. Was that the first time you had done that? A. The first time we had taken for the round, yes. Q. Where did you put that extra coal? A. In the No. 3 lower between decks and in the No. 3 shelter deck. Q. And approximately how much did you put in each space? A. No. 3 between deck about 350 to 360 ton. Q. That approximately filled that space, did it? A. Yes, sir. Q. And how much did you put in the No. 3 shelter deck? — A. About the same quantity, similar to 350 tons. _Q. Has No. 3 shelter deck got a wooden bulkhead at the forward end? A. A wooden bulkhead at the forward end, yes, sir. Q. And what kind of a wooden bulkhead is that as re- lated to the No. 1 in No. 3 shelter deck forward? A. Well, practically the same, I mean it is a wooden bulkhead. [fol. 378] Q. What kind of a bulkhead is there at the after end of No. 3 shelter deck? A. Well, steel; a steel. . Q. In the way of the hatch? A. In the way of the hatch, and wood at each side. Q. How does that compare with the bulkhead in the deck below, that is, in the No. 3 between deck? A. The same thing applies. Q. Now, aft of the after bulkhead, that is, this steel bulkhead with wood in the wings in No. 3 shelter deck and No. 3 between decks, what do you carry? A. Carry coal. Q. Is that space immediately aft of those bulkheads part of the permanent bulkhead? A. Part of the permanent bulkhead. Mr. Jones: I move to strike it out. The Court: I will let it stand. Mr. Keating: I am sorry; Mr. Jones’ point is well taken. By the Court: Q. The rear of the permanent bulkhead is a steel bulk- head, is it? A. The rear of the bulkhead, yes, sir. Q. Steel all the way across? A. Yes, sir. By Mr. Keating: Q. In both the between decks and the shelter deck? A. We are talking of the rear bulkhead are we? Q. Yes. A. In the shelter deck, no, sir. By the Court: Q. Your permanent bunkers don’t go up to the shelter [fol. 379] deck, do they? 295 296 | A. No, sir; no, they go just up to the shelter deck. Q. But no part of the shelter deck space is included in the permanent bunkers? A. No, sir. By Mr. Keating: Q. Now, Prior to June, 1926, had you ever carried coal in No. 3 shelter deck? A. Oh, yes, we carried it in the No. 3 shelter deck. Q. Had you any difficulty with the coal that you carried there? A. None whatever. By the Court: Q. Why would you carry it in the shelter deck? You told me you carried the surplus in the lower hold of No. 3? A. Yes, and so much of it in the shelter deck. Q. It wouldn’t fit in the lower hold? A. No, and we carried it in the shelter deck. By Mr. Keating: Q. Prior to June, 1926, while you were aboard this steamer had you ever carried any coal in No. 3 between decks ? A. No, sir, no. Q. When was the first time you put coal in No. 3 between decks? A. On that occasion in June. 2 Q. Do you know what they put down in the lower hold in June, 1926, No. 3 lower hold? A. Yes, grain. By the Court: Q. Why did you make the change from the lower hold to the between deck in June? [fol. 380] A. Well, we just carried the coal coming out for stability of the ship, but we had grain in the No. 3 lower hold. Q. You toid me the practice had been to carry coal for the return trip in the No. 3 lower hold? A. Yes sir. NE AE RSET NS REIMER | 297 Q. And then in June you changed that practice and started to carry coal in the No. 3 between decks? A. Yes, sir. Q. And put grain in the lower hold? A. Yes, sir. Q. I was interested to know why you changed. A. I don’t know any particular reason, sir, because the coal was just as handy for me in the No. 3 between decks as in the lower hold; in fact, it was handier for me to work with. Q. What kind of bulkheads did you have in the lower hold? A. Wood and steel. Q. Wood forward? A. Yes, sir. Q. The same sort as in the between decks? A. Yes, sir. By Mr. Keating: Q. You said something to his Honor about stability. Did you have any grain to carry from Hull to New York? A. From Hull to New York. Q. Yes. A. No. Q. Explain your statement about stability. A. Well, coming out the ships are usually light as to their cargoes, and there was very little cargo, so the coal was usually put down there so the ship would be in trim coming out. Q. You mean to say you would get some weight in the bottom? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, leaving New York how did you get some weight [fol. 381] in the No. 3 lower hold? A. By the grain. Q. Now tell the Court how it was decided, and by whom, to put some of the coal in No. 3 between decks in June, 1926? A. Well, the captain told me that we were going to carry coal, and suggested to me that the between decks would be the best place to put it, and I said yes. Q. And that was the occasion of its being put in? A. Yes, sir. 298 Q. Now, prior to putting any coal in No. 3 between decks was there anything else in there at that time, any commod- ity of any kind? A. When we put the coal in? Q. Yes. A. No, sir. Q. Before you left on the June trip did you make a memorandum in writing of the coal you had on board on arrival, the coal that was loaded while you were here, the coal shifted, the coal consumed, and th2 coal on board while leaving? A. Yes, sir. Q. I show you a memorandum and ask you if that is your signature attached to that memorandum? A. Yes, sir, it is. Mr. Keating: I ask that it be marked in evidence. (It is marked Exhibit E of this date.) Q. Mr. Oxtoby, will you look at Exhibit E and tell me which parts are in your handwriting and which parts are in someone else’s handwriting? A. Well, the figures are in my handwriting, but the other writing is of course made out by a clerk or somebody, I don’t know who would make it out really. [fol. 382] Q. That is the usual form that is given you, is it? - A. Yes sir. Q. What do you do with this after you fill it out? A. T hand it to the clerk usually just a bit before sailing. Q. Just before you leave? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, Exhibit E shows the coal situation on board your vessel as far as quantities are concerned when you left here in June, 19267 A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, after you left here in June, 1926, where did you go? A. We went to Hull. Q. And what did you do in Hull with respect to any coal? A. Well, in the No. 3 between decks they had so much of it to move so that the grain could be worked from the lower hold. a Q. Do you know bow much they took out? A. Well, I sould say about 160 tons. Q. Now, what did they take out of the shelter deck? Did they take some out of there too, No. 3 shelter deck? A. No, they didn’t take any out of there. Q. On the way over to Hull did you use any of that coal? A. Yes, I used as much as I could get away with; I think we used 30 or 40 ton over. Q. And where did that come from? A. Out of No. 3 between decks. Q. Now, how did you get. down through the grain to the coal that was in No. 3 shelter deck or hold? Did you take any out of there? A. Oh, yes, yes. Q. How much did you take out of the shelter deck? A. No, no, that wasn’t necessary, out of the shelter deck, that wasn’t necessary. Q. You didn’t take any out? A. No. [fol. 383] Q. How did you get down through the grain in No. 3 shelter deck to get coal in the hold? A. We must have worked that coal away ourselves to get at the hatch on the passage home. Q. So some sufficient coal came out of No. 3 between decks and No. 3 shelter decks to get at the grain? A. Yes, sir. Q. That was the only way to get at the grain, wasn’t it? A. That is right, sir. Q. Did you take any coal in Hull when you finished what I call the June trip? A. No, we did not. Q. Did you do any shifting of coal in Hull? A. No, there was only that bit moved that I say they had to clear that hatch, that was the only movement of the coal. Q. Now, you came back to New York, I think it has been testified that you arrived here on August 17, 1926. Now, at that time was thre any coal left in No. 3 shelter deck? A. Yes, sir, there was some left in the shelter deck. Q. How much, do you know? A. About 100 tons. Q. And was there some coal left in No. 3 between decks? A. Yes, sir. 300 Q. Do you know about how much? A. About 160. Q. Now, on the voyage out, which ended here on August 17, 1926, did you go in either of those places, that is, No. 3 between decks and No. 3 shelter deck? A. Yes, sir. Q. Which one did you go in? A. I went in both. Q. What for? A. To see the quality of the coal and to see the condi- tions and to see how much coal I wanted. [fol. 384] Q. Did you use any of that coal out of either space on the voyage from Hull to New York, ending here in August? A. No. Q. How many times over were you in those spaces, No. 3 between decks and No. 3 shelter deck? A. Well, it is difficult to recollect all this time ago but I was certainly down there on three or four occasions. Q. What did you do when you went in those spaces? A. Felt the coal to see that it was all in order. Q. Did you go into any of the other bunker spaces on the ship? A. Always; that is my regular duty, go around, what- ever coal there is. Q. Why do you go in there to look at the coal? A. To see the condition of it. Q. What condition do you mean, whether it is still coal? A. No, whether it is in good condition or whether it is heating, or anything of that sort. Q. Has the chief engineer got any regular duty in con- nection with that? A. Yes, sir. Q. It was part of his job, was it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Were you expecting to take coal here in New York in August for the round voyage? A. No. Q. Why not? Was the coal strike over? A. No, because we were going to lay up that voyage to fix up the refrigerating apparatus. Q. Now, did you take extra coal here in August, 19267 A. Yes, sir. 301 Q. How did the matter come to your attention that you were going to take extra coal? ' A. The master told me. Q. What did he say? A. He told me we were going to take extra coal here for our other ships. [fol. 385] Q. Now, following that conversation, what did you do, if anything, about taking on extra coal? Did you do anything? A. I looked at my space in No. 3 between decks and shelter deck and told them what we could take in there. Q. Did you estimate how much was there? A. Beg pardon? 7 Q. (Repeated.) Did you estimate how much was there? A. Yes, sir, and how much we could take. Q. When did you first go into those spaces in New York with reference to the time you loaded the new coul? A. On the previous evening to when they were going to start the coal. Q. About what time was that? A. Well, it would be after the grain was finished in the lower hold, I suppose between 4 and 5 o’clock on that day. Q. Now, your visit was the afternoon before the day they started to load the new coal? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did you go into No. 3 shelter deck at that time? = 24 on Q. Did you go into No. 3 between deck? A Yes, sir. Q. What did you do and what did you see at that time? A. I felt the coal and to my mind it was quite all right to put the new supply on it. Q. Did you put your hand on it? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did it feel? A. It felt just about the same as it would feel for that time of year, I thought. Q. Now designate the coal as cool, warm or hot; which would you say it was? A. I should say it was warm. [fol. 386] By the Court: Q. Was it warmer than the parts of the ship? nny EY eget cn pane — A. No, sir, I don’t think so. Of course, it was in August, that time of year, and everything is a bit warm, though I didn’t think it was any more than normal. Q. Do you mean about the temperature of the air also? A. Well, it may have felt a little warmer than that, sir, but nothing dangerous. Mr. Jones: I move to strike out the latter part of his answer. The Court: I will allow it to stand, with exception. Q. What parts did you feel? A. All round the surface coal, sir, all round the forward and the two sides. Q. All on the same level with your shoulder, about? A. No, in the middle way, and I had a good feel all over it. By Mr. Keating: Q. Why did you feel the coal, chief ? A. Well, it was my duty to do so. Q. And what was your purpose in putting your hand on the coal? A. To make sure that it would be quite all right to put the other coal on top of it. Q. Is it part of your duty to inspect the coal? A. Yes. Q. Is it part of your duty to make a proper inspection? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, when you left here in August, 1928— A. 1926, sir. [fol. 387] Q. I mean 1926; did you make any report sim- ilar to the ones that you made of the June voyage, which is marked Exhibit E? (Showing witness paper.) A. Yes, that is a similar report I made on that voyage. Q. This is the August voyage on which you were lost? A. Yes, sir. Mr. Keating: I ask that it be marked in evidence. (It is marked Exhibit F of this date.) By the Court: Q. You didn’t do other than just feel the surface of the coal? A. I put my hand into it. Q. Put your hand into it? - A. Yes, sir. Q. How far in? A Well, to beyond the wrist. Q. What was it, powdered, finely divided coal? A. Usually the American coal is very fine. Q. How did you get your hand in? A. Well, by working it; you could work your hand in the coal. Q. Did it feel warmer inside than on the surface? A. No, not to me, sir. Well, I might qualify that and say that it would be a little warmer than it was on the surface; nothing detrimental to that, though. Q. I understand you to say that the coal felt warmer than the air? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you mean that it also felt warmer than, well, the woodwork or the iron work on the ship down in the between deck? Just consider the temporary bunker, Did you hap- pen to feel that at the same time? A. The wood or anything like that? [fol. 388] Q. Yes. A. No, sir, I didn’t, no. It may have felt slightly warmer than that. By Mr. Keating: Q. Mr. Oxtoby, tell me which part of Exhibit F is in your handwriting. A. The figures, and also the signature. Q. The remainder is the writing of a clerk, is it? A Yes, sir. Q. And what did you do with Exhibit F when you filled it out? A. Handed it back to the clerk. Q. One of the agent’s clerks? A. Yes, sir. Q. On the pier? A. Yes, sir. Q. How long before sailing? A. Just a few hours, generally the last day it comes. Q. That is the last thing you do? A. Yes, sir. Q. You have to put on it, do you not, the amount of coal consumed in port? A. Yes; I can’t make it up generally until the last thing, for you have to make it up with the quantity of coal con- sumed in port. Q. Did you see anyone else down there in No. 3 between decks while you were there in August? A. Yes, sir. Q. Who else did you see? A. The chief officer was down there. Q. What was he doing? A. Looking after his hatch to see that everything was in good order. Q. That is the hatch over the grain? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was he physically doing some work himself? A. No, I can’t say that he was physically doing it, but he was looking over to see that it was battened down and all in good order. Q. Did you see anyone else there? A. Yes, the master came Gown too. [fol. 389] Q. What was he doing? A. He was having a look at his part of the place to see that the mate had carried out his part battening all the holds to keep the coal dust away, and so on. Q. And whose duty was it on the ‘‘Galileo’’ to look after the coal? A. Mine. Q. Was there anybody el do with it? A. No. Q. Whose duty on the whether the coal was cool gerous? A. Mine. Q. Was it anybody else’s duty? A. No. _ Did the owners have a Marine Superintendent in New York? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Have they got a Superinten York? A. Not to my knowledge. se on board had anything to ‘¢Galileo’’ was it to determine or warm or hot or safe or dan- dent Engineer in New 305 Q. Did you ever meet him? _ A. No. Q. Anybody of that character on the ship in August? A. No. Q. Anybody fom the shore, the agent or anybody of that character, give you any orders about that coal in August, 1926? A. No. Q. Before you put any coal in No. 3 between decks in August how much coal did you say was left from the pre- vious trip? A. About 160 tons. Q. And when had that 160 been put in there? A. In June previous, the June voyage. Q. That was on June 30th, wasn’t it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Will you describe to his Honor the coal pile, the form that that 160 tons took? A. Yes, say it was a space like this room, there will be coal going down the sides and also at the forward end, and the hatch would be here (indicating), probably where the desk is, and the coal would run down to the hatch about 4 feet clear of the hatch. [fol. 390] Q. That is the forward end of the hatch? A. Yes, sir. Q. What is the coal against forward of the hatch? A. Against the wood bulkhead. Q. And how high up—how far down did the pile come that was against the wooden bulkhead from the next deck? A. I should say 3 or 4 feet. Q. With reference to your inspection of the coal did you go in that space again yourself before they loaded the coal? A. No, not that day. Q. Prior to loading coal in No. 3 between decks what was the last time you personally went into No. 3 between decks? A. On the evening previous. Q. Previous to what? A. Previous to the day we started loading. Q. You started loading the next morning? A. Yes, sir. 20—809 306 Q. I think the logbook shows it was August 25th. A. Am I right about that, Mr. J ones? Mr. Jones: I think so. Q. I think it shows August 25th. Were you there while the coal was being loaded? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where were you? A. On deck. Q. Which deck? A. On the main deck, where we were taking the coal in. Q. The weather deck? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where did they take the coal from? A. From the lighter. Q. Where was the lighter? A. Alongside of the ship. Q. And how did they get it out of the lighter into the hold? A. By buckets. [fol. 391] Q. Well, how did they get it in the buckets? Just describe the operation from the time—— A. Well, there would be men on the lighter filling these buckets, and when each bucket was filled it would be swung over and the contents of the bucket put into a wheelbarrow and wheeled over the hatch and dumped into the hatch. Q. Before that operation téok place had they trimmed any of what they called the old coal? A. No, they hadn’t trimmed any. Q. Who was in charge of the coal trimmers, do you know? A. Well, I don’t know the man by name, but he was the man that had been there on several—well, pretty well all the time I have been chief, the same man. Q. He was the foreman of the coal trimmers? A. He was the foreman of the coal trimmers, yes, sir. Q. How long did they continue to dump this coal into the No. 3 between decks before anything happened? A. Well, they would get it up into a pile and send the trimmers in. Q. Did you see the trimmers go down? A. Yes, sir. Q. What does a trimmer do? 307 A. He removes the coal from the heap and throws it as far back as he can until they fill the space up. ' Q, The trimmers were down there that OTHING, were they? A. They were down there, yes, sir. Q. And the process of trimming that new coal would put the new coal where, with reference to the old coal pile? A. Well, it would fill the space up which had been worked out and it would come on to the old coal, of course. Q. Would there be any new coal in the after end of the No. 3 between decks? A. Oh, yes, there would be new coal there. [fol. 392] Q. Would there be any new coal in the forward end? A. Not right forward, no. Q. That would be on account of the shape of the pile? A. Yes, sir, the slant, you see, would come down and the coal would pass that. Q. Mr. Oxtoby, something happened that morning, didn’t it, with respect to the condition of the coal? A. Well, the foreman came to me—— Q. What foreman are you talking about? A. The foreman of the coal trimmers, and he said that the coal was hot. Q. Is that all he said? A. No, he said it was burning the men’s boots. By the Court: E Q. Which coal was that? A. He said the coal. By Mr. Keating: Q. Did you ask him which coal, or do you recall? A. I do not recall. Q. What did you say to him? Mr. Jones: Objected to, what this witness said to the foreman. - Mr. Keating: I think it is very important that your Honor should have this story. The Court: I think it is part of the res geste and admis- sible. I overrule the objection, with exception. aoa et a eta ee et aeewy 309 the chief will be here and Mr. Jones will have an opportunity to see them and question this witness about them. - The Court: All right. [fol. 394] Q. Did you see Mr. Brackenbury on the ship following the June voyage in Hull? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was he there several times? A. He was there several times, yes, sir. Q. Do you remember what the occasion was of his com- ing aboard? A. He was getting plans for the refrigerating repairs that I am talking about. Q. He was there a good deal? A. Oh, yes, he was there on two or three occasions. Q. Now, Mr. Oxtoby, who is it in the company, the Eller- man’s Wilson Line, this English corporation, who is it to whom you, as chief engineer, make your reports? A. Mr. Brackenbury. Q. Has he charge of all the engineers? A. He has charge of all the engineers, of the engineering office. Q. And you make a report to him how often? A. At the end of every voyage. Q. Do you make any report in New York? A. Yes, I sometimes send a letter home to him from New York. Q. Do you make a report to anybody in New York? A. Oh, no. . Q. But you sometimes write him? A. I think it is a duty of the engineers to write him, and the letter gets home and he knows what work we have had to do, see. Q. Mr. Oxtoby, at any time while you were chief engi- neer of this vessel did you receive instructions in writing from Mr. Brackenbury about coal? A. Yes—— Q. Don’t tell us what it is. Have you got the papers that were given to you by Mr. Brackenbury? A. No, I haven’t. Q. What became of them? A. They were lost with the ship. [fol. 395] Q. In New York Harbor? A. Yes, sir. 310 Q. I show you, Mr, Oxtoby, a document, and ask you what that is? (Showing witness paper.) . That is a letter which I received, sir. " You mean it is a copy of a letter? _ It is a copy of a letter that I received. From Mr. Brackenbury? From Mr. Brackenbury. How did you receive it, through the mail? No, he gave it into my hand. When? In Hull. When? . November, 1925. Do you recognize that as a copy? Exactly. The original you say—what happened to it? . That was lost with the ship. . Did you lose anything else? . My books and my clothes, everything, practically. Mr. Keating: I ask that it be marked in evidence. (It is marked Exhibit G of this date.) Q. Did you read these instructions? A. Absolutely, yes. Q. You had them on board at the time the ‘‘Galileo’’ was lost? ; A. Yes, sir. Q. I call your attention, Mr. Oxtoby, to the concluding paragraph. First of all, this is dated October 19, 1925. ‘At the end of each year and each succeeding year please send in a statement as to the longest time any coal has been on board at the time of loading and also the amount;’’ did you do that? A. No, I didn’t do that. Q. Why not? A. Because soon after receiving that letter we went up to [fol. 396] Newcastle and we went into the drydock there, and the bunkers were thoroughly repaired and painted and all the coal was moved out of them. Q. When did that operation finish? A. That finished in December of the same year, 1925. rPOPOPOPOPOePePoPer 311 Q. And when did you leave on your first trip after those repairs? ' A. I think the middle of December that year, after com- pleting those repairs. Q. And why didn’t you send a report in compliance with that? A. Because I knew that the officer knew, and Mr. Bracken- bury knew, that everything had been cleaned out of the bunkers. Q. Was eveiything cleaned out of the ship then? A. Yes, sir. Q. What did they do? They repaired them where required and painted them A. up. Q. And did other repairs to the ship? A. And did other repairs to the ship, yes, sir. By the Court: Q. In New York in August, 1926, was any of the new sup- ply of coal put into the permanent bunkers? A. Oh, yes, sir; yes, sir. By Mr. Keating: Q. Do you know how much coal was loaded in the per- manent bunkers here in New York in August, 1926, approx- imately? A. Well, if you would give me a little piece of paper I could soon make it out. (Witness is handed a piece of paper.) Q. Do you want these exhibits too? A. No, sir. I think there would be about 470 tons go into the permanent bunkers. (fol. 397] Q. In August, 1926? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was there any other part of the ship, in August, 1926, that you could have removed the 160 tons that remained in the No. 3 between decks to? A. Was there any other place in the ship? Q. Yes. A. Oh, yes. Q. Where could you have put it? 312 A. In the shelter deck. Q. What shelter deck? A. No. 2 shelter deck. Q. And where else could you have put it? A. Well, I don’t know; I have nothing to do with cargo or anything like that, but I know that place was clear of any cargo. Q. Was there anything to stop you putting it in the per- manent bunkers? A. It wouldn’t have gone in the permanent bunkers. Q. I beg pardon? A. All that coal wouldn’t have gone into the permanent bunkers. Q. I am talking about the old coal. A. Oh, I beg your pardon; it could have gone into the permanent bunkers. Q. Why didn’t you put it there? A. I didn’t see any necessity for shifting it. Q. There is a space on these reports for shifting, isn’t there, Exhibits E and F? A. Yes; if I had wanted the coal moved I could have got it moved. Q. How would you have gone about that? A. Seen the captain and told him I wanted labor to move the coal. Q. Have you done that i in the past? A. Yes, yes. Q. Who was there in New York either on the ship or any- wheres else, in August, 1926, that had anything to say about {fol. 398] your bunkers besides you yourself? A. Nobody, nobody. Q. How much coal do you burn a day at sea? A. About 42 ton. Q. And how long is the ordinary passage from Hull to New York? A. Well, you can average it, say 15 to 16 days. Q. Each way? A. Yes. Q. Do you burn any coal in port? A. Oh, yes. Q. At each end? A. Yes. Q. How much coal does your steamer consume in a round voyage? ' 313 A. Well, about 1400; between 1400 and 1500 tons.’ Q. Now, I observe that on leaving New York on July 2, 1926, according to Exhibit E, you had 1810 tons of bunker coal on board, is that right? ( Showing witness paper.) A. Oh, yes, that is right. Q. Now, how long would it take you—how many voyages —to completely exhaust that coal if no other coal was taken on board? A. Well, according to that you see it would take about a little over a voyage, wouldn’t it, say burning 1500 ton, a little over a voyage. Q. Now, when did you expect that all the bunkers in No. 3 between decks would be removed from that space? A. In the No. 3 between decks? Q. Yes. A. We left on the 28th of August, I expected that they would be out before the end of September, in a fortnight’s time. By the Court: Q. You didn’t expect to burn that on the ‘*Galileo’’, did you? A. No, sir. (fol. 399] Cross-examination. By Mr. Jones: Q. By whom are you employed now? A. Beg pardon, sir? Q. Who are you working for? A. The Wilson Line. Q. The same people you were working for at the time this fire occurred? A. Yes, sir. Q. When you got home did you tell anybody about this matter of what the stevedores told you here in New York? A. No. Q. Did you ever tell anybody before you told us today about it? A. Beg pardon? Q. Who was the first person you ever told about it? : A. About—— | 314 Q. About what the stevedores told you about their feet being hot when they got on this coal; who was the first per- son you ever mentioned that to? A. Mr. Brackenbury. Q. Who is he? A. The superintending engineer. Q. When did you mention it to him? A. On the voyage over. Q. What voyage over? A. From England. Q. Well, now—is that the same as that Mr. Brackenbury that you have told us about? A. Yes, sir. Q. You mentioned it to Mr. Brackenbury on the voyage over? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was he on the ship with you? A. Yes, sir. Q. What ship? A. The ‘‘Sythia’’. Q. The ‘‘Sythia’’? A. Yes, sir. Q. It was shortly after this disaster that you told Mr. Brackenbury about it? A. No, sir. Q. I thought you just told me that? Mr. Keating: No, he said on tlie voyage to America. [fol. 400] Q. You never told him about it until this time? A. No. Q. You kept that as a deep secret in your own breast up to that time? A. Yes, sir, I did. . And you felt very guilty about it, didn’t you? No. You feel guilty about it now, don’t you? No. . You don’t feel that you were grossly negligent? No. . You don’t think that had anything to do with the fire? . I didn’t think that the coal would have got on fire. Q. Do you think now that your paying no heed to the fact that the coal was hot had anything to do with the fire? >POPOPOPO 315 A. No; in my estimation the coal was perfectly all right. _ Q. And you don’t think today that that had anything to do with the fire, do you? A. Well, I don’t know. Q. Mr. Brackenbury fired you when you told him about this, did he? A. No, Q. He has still got you in his employ? A. Beg pardon? Q. (Repeated.) He has still got you in his employ? A. Yes. : Q. And you never mentioned that fact to a soul until you mentioned it to Mr. Brackenbury while you were coming over from England on the ‘‘Sythia’’ to come here to testify in this case? A. No. Q. Do you know that that would be an interesting subject to anybody interested in this case? A. I hardly get that question. Q. Did you know that that would be an interesting subject to anybody who has anything to do with this case? A. Oh, yes, sir. [fol. 401] Q. And notwithstanding that fact, you kept it secret for three years? A. Yes, sir. Q. And never mentioned it to a soul? A. No. Q. Didn’t you know that it was your duty to report the facts to the people who had a right to know about them? A. No, I didn’t think it was my duty to report anything like that. Q. What makes you think it was your duty to report it to Mr. Brackenbury on your way over her- to testify in this case? A. Well, I should have to testify that Magarelli had spoken of it, so I must speak the truth. Q. Didn’t you know that Mr. Brackenbury would want to know what the facts were immediately the thing oc- curred? A. Well, certainly, I should have told him. Q. Why didn’t you tell him? A. Because I thought the coal was all right, and that it was perfectly all right for me to leave New York with it. 316 Q. Well, you knew that the stevedores didn’t agree with you in that opinion? A. The stevedores? Q. Yes. A. I only had two minutes’ conversation with him; I didn’t know whether he agreed with me or not. Q. Who were the people that talked to you? Wasn’t it trimmers or stevedores, or what? A. The foreman of the stevedores. Q. What was his name? A. Magarelli. Q. He came to you and told 3 you that the coal was hot to his feet, and you brushed him aside and told him to go about his business, ‘‘I have no time to pay attention to you,”’ is that what happened? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you kept that secret for a period of three years, [fol. 402] never told Mr. Brackenbury about it, and never told Mr. Keating about it, and never told anyone about it until you got on the steamer to come over here to testify in this case, and you made a confession to Mr. Bracken- bury, is that what happened? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, Mr. Oxtoby, I want to be quite certain that I fully understand your position. What you say today is that the heating of the coal didn’t have anything to do with the fire? A. I didn’t know what caused the fire. Q. You don’t say anything one way or the other about it? A. No, I don’t know anything about what caused the fire. Q. But you did think when you came over on the steamer that it was time for you to make a confession to Mr. Brack- enbury about what this foreman told you? A. Yes, I did. Q. And you had never made any such confession until that time? A. No. Q. Now, you have spoken of this American coal as being fine. It has been stipulated in this case between Mr. Keat- ing and myself that it was what we call run of the mine ocal? A. Yes. 317 Q. You know run of the mine coal consists of fines and large lumps? A. Yes. Q. And this coal did consist of fines and large lumps? A. Yes, there were some lumps. Q. There were quite considerable large lumps? A. No. Q. Did you make any complaint about its being all fines? A. No, never. Q. And do you know when you get coal, as a chief engi- neer, that is all fines, you always make complaints about it, don’t you? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know what causes heating of coal? A. Well, the oxygen getting into it. [fol. 403] Q. Do you know anything about the form of ventilation you should give to coal? A. Yes. Q. What? A. You should give it surface ventilation. Q. Give it surface ventilation? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you know that Lloyds requires that you should have two ventilators, one in the forward part of the com- partment and one in the after part of the compartment, to properly ventilate coal, don’t you? A. I know there should be two ventilators. Q. Was it never called to your attention by Mr. Brack- enbury? A. No. Q. The Board of Trade circular issued in March, 1907, page 44 of Mr. Stoek’s pamphlet, Exhibit 19 in this case, states—I am reading from page 44: “In order to secure adequate surface ventilation at least two ventilators should be provided for each hold or compartment in which coal is stowed. These ventilators should be of wrought iron or wrought steel fitted with cowls and placed at opposite ends of the compartment, or as far apart as circumstances will permit.’’ Do you know of that requirement? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you know anything about that regulation of the Board of Trade? A. Yes, sir, I have read it. 318 Q. And you knew that the compartment in which you had to place this coal, which was part of the permanent bunkers of the ship, supplied you by the owners, had no such venti- lation? A. I said they had two ventilators; they had two ven- tilators. Q. Are they at opposite ends of the compartment? A. Opposite ends of the compartment? Q. Yes. A. No, they are not. [fol. 404] Q. And you knew then that the permanent bunker space of this ship was not ventilated—you told Mr. Keating that this was a permanent bunker space? A. No, sir; no, sir. Q. I have it in my notes and I took it down very care- fully and I will refer to the notes when they are written out. I will put that aside for the moment. We will come back to it later when we get the notes. Mr. Brackenbury knew that you used this compartment for the carriage of coal, didn’t he, for he came aboard your ship when you were in Hull? A. Yes. Q. He went all over your ship? A. Yes, sir. Q. You made reports to him? A. Yes, but not about the bunker coal. Q. He saw the places where you carried the coal, didn’t he? A. Yes, sir. Q. And this compartment did not have ventilation as re- quired by the rules of the Board of Trade, did it? A. Well, it had two ventilators, but they were not op- posite to one another—they were opposite to each other. Q. But they were not at opposite ends of the compart- ment, were they? A. No. By the Court: Q. How far were they from the ends? A. Well, I think 23 feet from the forward end. Q. What do you mean by the end? A. The forward bulkhead. 319 Q. How far were they from the side of the ship? A. About 8 feet, as near as I can say, from the sides of the ship. Mr. Keating: The ship was 50 feet wide, sir. [fol.405] The Court: Is it your contention that onds mean forward and aft? Mr. Jones: Yes, sir. The Court: Not forward of aft? Mr. Jones: Yes, sir. Mr. Keating: There is nothing in that, for +he compart- ment was wider than it was long; it was 33 feet long by 50 feet wide, and Mr. Jones is reading from a pamphlet which has been supplemented by the pamphlet of the Board of Trade in 1917. Mr. Jones: You refused to let me put it in. Mr. Keating: We are prepared to let this go into evi- dence. Mr. Jones: I offer Exhibit 17 for Identification in evi- dence. (It is marked Exhibit 17 of this date.) By Mr. Jones: Q. The only thing that you ever had called to your atten- tion with respect to the ventilation of coal is that there should be adequate surface ventilation? A. Yes, sir. Q. You never had anything else called to your attention? A. That the air should not have to go through the coal. Q. You had nothing whatever to do with the bulkhead in that ship? A. No, sir, not making it. Q. And you had nothing to do with whether it was air- tight or not—the chief mate, it is his business? A. He said it was air-tight. Q. But that is his business? A. Yes, sir. (fol. 406] Q. And you have nothing whatever to do with making them air-tight or not making them air-tight, or any- thing about it, have you? A. No, I have not. Q. But you do know that they should be made air-tight? _A. As air-tight as a bulkhead can possibly be made air- t. Q. And you know they should be absolutely air-tight, don’t you? A. They couldn’t be. Q. You can caulk a bulkhead? A. Oh, yes, you could caulk a wood bulkhead, but I don’t think you could make it absolutely air-tight. Q. You don’t know? A. I don’t think so. Q. You don’t know, do you? A. No. Q. Now, you said the wooden bulkhead in the shelter deck was practically the same as in the between decks; that is correct, isn’t it? A. Yes, sir. Q. I show you Exhibit 7 and ask you if the planking shown on that exhibit isn’t similar to the planking which was used in the between decks, on the bulkhead that was in the between decks? A. Have you got the exhibit for the between deck bulk- head? Q. All I have got is—it was burned away—there is only one plank left in one of these pictures, that is all I can show you. ‘ A. Well, the planks were the same, as far as I can re- member, the bulkheads were the same. Q. The planks were similar to those as shown in that picture; I am showing you now Exhibit No. 7? A. My. recollection isn’t clear as to what kind the bulk- heads were, but I think they were the same. Q. As shown in the picture No. 7? A. Yes. Q. Now I have written down here and I endeavored to take what you said, as nearly as I could get it, and I have [fol. 407] written here, the space aft of wooden bulkhead, part of the permanent bunkers of the ship—do you say that is not so? The Court: You are mistaken about that, Mr. Jones, I am quite sure. If I am not mistaken, it was when I was asking him. 321 Mr. Jones: Yes, sir. The Court: I got the impression from him that the per- ‘manent bunkers of the ship were to the rear of this space in the No. 3 between decks, that is my distinct impression; it confirmed my previous impression, and I didn’t have the slightest idea that he intended to tell me that the No. 3 be- tween decks was a part of the permanent bunker, that he was distinguishing between that space and that space in the rear. Mr. Jones: As long as we are all agreed that that isn’t so, I can’t press it for the moment, but I was very much surprised when I made that note. But we want to look at his testimony and clear up that point, for I think that he agreed that the space in the between decks where the coal was placed was not a part of the permanent bunkers of the ship. The Witness: No, it was not. Q. You said you had been on this ship since 1908? A. Yes, sir. Q. Had that bulkhead been in that ship ever since you had been on the ship? A. The after bulkhead had, yes, sir. (fol. 408] Q. I mean the wooden bulkhead at the forward end of No. 3 between decks? A. No, I can’t tell you that. Q. You don’t know when it was put there? A. No, I can’t tell you. Q. You don’t know? A. No. Q. But it had been there for a long time? A. Possibly, for cargo purposes, or something of that kind, I don’t know. Q. Now, you usually carried grain in your lower hold, didn’t you? A. Yes. Q. That was the regular trade that your ship was in, to carry grain in these lower holds? A. Yes, sir. Q. So any bulkheads which you had in your lower holds were grain-tight? A. Yes, sir. 21—809 322 Q. And built in accordance with the regulation for bulk- heads for carrying grain? A. Well, that isn’t my part of the play, I don’t know it. Q. But you assume it? A. I assume it. Q. How do you discharge grain at Hull? A. Well, it is taken over by bags, the bags are filled, and it is over on the top deck and dumped over the side. Q. You have no suction elevators? A. There are some, but it is not usually discharged by them. Q. You have no lighters that come alongside that are equipped with suction apparatus? A. No. Q. In Hull you use the old-fashioned system of hoisting it out of the hold with bags or baskets or some other ap- pliance? A. Yes, sir. Q. Do you hoist it out through the feeder or through the square of the hatch? A. Well, you are asking me something really that I am [fol. 409] not conversant with, because I don’t know exactly how it is discharged, but it comes out of the hold through the hatch, I take it. Q. You have been on the ship for almost 8 years? A. Yes. Q. The ship carried grain probably every time she went out of this port, didn’t she? A. She carried a lot of grain. Q. She was one of the grain carriers? A. Yes. Q. And there was not a voyage that she made during those years that she hadn’t grain on her? A. A few. Q. It would be probably a few voyages that she didn’t have grain? A. Very few. Q. And you never paid any attention to how they dis- charged that grain? A. Only through the hatchways. Q. Isn’t it a fact that you used no coal out of the between decks or the shelter deck on any of your voyages either in June or in August, 1926? 323 A. We used the coal out of the shelter deck, so much of it, and so much out of the between decks in J une, 1926. ; Which voyage? A. After we left here in June. Q. Now, will you just tell us what is the practical method you used in firing your ship? You have what you call side bunkers, haven’t you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you have stokers? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you have coal passers? A. Yes, sir. Q. Tell us what happens. Does the coal passer go through the bunker to get coal and pass it to the stoker, and the stoker passes it into the furnace? A. Yes, sir. Q. Where does he get it from? A. At whatever hold we are working from. [fol.410] Q. If it is in the shelter deck does the coal passer go up to the shelter deck and fill a wheelbarrow full of coal and wheel it to some hatch and dump it down? A. Yes. Q. Notwithstanding he has coal in the side pocket just by his hand? A. Whichever bunker we are working from he dumps it from that into the nearest place he can come to the stoke- hole. Q. Don’t you know that you work your side bunkers first? - No, not always. . Didn’t you on this June voyage? . Didn’t we work the side bunkers? Yes, . We worked the shelter deck too. When did you work the shelter deck? . That I can’t say; some part of the voyage. Have you logbook? No, I haven’t. What became of your logbook? . It was lost with the ship. Your smooth log as well as your rough log? Everything. POPOPOPOpPOpDOSD 324 Q. Your logbook would show which bunkers you worked, wouldn’t it? A. Well, I don’t think it would, not particularly, which we are working; no, it wouldn’t. 2. ena you put down which bunkers you are working? . No. Q. How could you get the coal from the shelter deck to the fire room without going through the permanent bunkers? A. Well, there was a hatch situated right over the chute and the chute was in the athwartship bunker and it would drop through the chute right into the stokehole. Q. On the floor of the stokehole? A. Yes. Q. In front of where the men were working? A. Yes, sir. Q. Right in front of the boilers? A. Yes, sir, on the stokehole place. [fol.411] Q. What is the distance between the fire room bulkhead and the boilers? A. I should think 8 feet. Q. And you say you dumped the coal right down that 8 feet? A. No, the chute came level with the bulkhead and you would fill the chute up and it would gradually run down as the fireman wanted it to go. Q. Where was that chute? ~ A. In the athwartship bulkhead, lower bulkhead. Q. Athwartship lower bulkhead? A. Athwartship lower bulkhead. Q. So I am right in saying that the chute emptied itself into the bunker? A. It was entirely separate from the bunker, was the chute, a built casing inside the athwartship bulkhead. Q. It was inside the athwartship bunker? A. Yes. Q. And that bunker is down in the bottom of the ship? A. Yes, sir. Q. So I am right in saying that in order to get the coal from the shelter deck to the fire room you have to dump it into the chute, which empties it into the fire room? A. Yes, sir. The between deck bunkers, you have to let 325 it go so far down and the top of the chute will be bare, and you can put the coal down. ~ Q. I show you Exhibit No. 17 and ask you if that paper was ever called to your attention by Mr. Brackenbury? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, you told I think either the Court or Mr. Keat- ing, that you expected the coal would be out of the between decks in a fortnight, that is the coal that you took away in August? A. Yes. Q. You knew that that coal wag being taken over for the [fol. 412] use of one of the other steamers, didn’t you? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you knew that wouldn’t be used by the ‘‘Galileo”’ at all? A. No, we shouldn’t use that coal. Q. And that all of the coal that was in the No. 3 between decks and in the No. 3 shelter decks, which was on the “‘Galileo’’ when she left New York August 28, 1926, was there not for use on the ‘‘Galileo”’ at all, that is right? A. I understood so; there was plenty of other coal. Q. And that coal was for the use of another steamship? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you never intended to use it, nor did anyone on your ship intend to use it? No, sir. Q. That was pursvant to instructions which you received from your owners? A. Yes, sir. Q. The coal which was supplied you here you knew was supplied by your shore agents? A. Yes, sir, the Morrisdale Coal Company. Q. And it was ordered by Ellerman’s Wilson Line, Inc., New York? A. Yes, sir. Q. And if you thought that that was improper coal, the second lot you got, you would certainly have reported it to somebody? A. I hardly get you. Q. If you thought that that coal was poor coal which your Ellerman’s Wilson, Inc. had bought—— A. Yes. Q. And the people who supplied it were cheating your owner, you would have said something about it, wouldn’t you? A. That was my duty, yes, sir. [fol. 413] Direct examination. By Mr. Keating: Q. Mr. Oxtoby, when did you first confess to me that the story about Magarelli was true? A. When I arrived in New York. Q. You had previously denied to me that it was true, hadn’t you? A. That is right. Q. And I told you that you had to come into court and tell the truth, didn’t I? A. Yes, sir. Q. And I took an affidavit when you were in my office? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, what else did you tell me? You told me this was on your conscience, didn’t you? A. Yes, sir. Q. How many times prior to October, 1929, when you made this affidavit which I am going to ask to have marked in evidence, had you told me the Magarelli story was false? A. I couldn’t tell you. Q. Many times, wasn’t it? A. S [Text truncated at 120,000 characters. The full text is on the page linked above.] --- Source: Frix Law Library, https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40386008_0259%3A02. Public record. Not legal advice.