# Appendix — Bailey v. Dixon > Briefs, arguments, decisions, and more. URL: https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40385606_0676%3A1 ## Record - **Collection:** Supreme Court brief - **Document type:** Appendix - **Published:** January 1, 1972 - **Citation:** 406 U.S. 945 ## Text _ & 4 - International as follows: That an election’ of of fi- cers of the Local was held in January ‘of this, year under the auspices of the International. — “That intimidation, threats and other coercion = ae on the member- Ship of the said Local which unduly influenced the outcome of the said election; "That ‘the contract negotiated by the repre- Sentatives of this Local and Local 1833 was sub- mitted to the membership of both Locals. A ref- erendum election conducted on February 22, 1969, Port Allen, Louisiana: : _ "That the contract was rejected at the said referendum by virtue of intimidation, threats ‘and other coercion exerted — . upon the membership of Local i830 by the newly’ elected officers and . Board of the said Local; and | "That the actions of the said newly elected officers of Local 1830 have been such as to ? cause a complete break- down of the collective — es. ae bargaining system at the Part of Greater Baton - Royge, causing hardship _— and misery to be inflicted upon the membership of — this Local; and, s ““That the president, . Alton J. Bailey, did on _ the 17th day of March, 1969, fail and refuse to hold special called meet-. ing petitioned for by the members under the terms of the Local constitution; and: “That on the 17th day of March, 1969, while personnel who worked for Cargo Carriers and at the Burnside Terminal were employed President Alton J. Bailey did allow those . persons to.vote~on the deep sea contract for the Port of Baton Rouge: ani ; “WHEREAS, President Alton J. Bailey has con- *.Stantly refused to hear legitimate complaints of ‘the members of the Local; ' “WHEREAS, President Alton J. Bailey has re- fused to attempt to bar- gain in good faith with Sister Local 1833 and with the management of the Port of Greater Batm Rouige: and “WHEREAS, President Alton J. Bailey has handled certain check off: funds belonging to the Local, District and Inter- national for an extended period of time but has to date failed to file with the Local a bond and has -indeed subverted certain ' funds fron the checking account of the said Local and placed same ina checking account of the Said Local ‘and placed Same in a checking ‘account in the First National Bank of Port Allen which re-. qeires only his signature, all in violation of the Local and International - Constitution and the laws. of the United States; . and “WHEREAS, on Monday, June 16, 1969, President . Alton J.-Bailey, aided and. assisted by certain other members of the Local, who purported to act as offi- cers of the Local, did, in violation of the Con- -Stitution of International and in violation of the Constitution of the Local, introduce, read and pass certain legislation which amended the Consti- tution of the Local with- out notice to the member- ship, without due reading | : aS required by the Loéal Constitution and with- out due reading at two Successive meetings, all in vielation of the Con- | _ Stitution of Local 1830 and the International Constitution; and “WHEREAS, the duly elected financial secre- tary and the duly elected recording secretary have been excluded from the union hall, their minutes and other documents required for the perfor- mance of their duties having been taken into the exclusive custody of President Alton J. Bailey; and, . “WHEREAS, it is the desire of the undersigned . membership that the Inter- national Longshoremen’s Association assume the responsibility of repre- senting the. membership of this ‘Local until such time as an orderly demo- | cratic society can be restored, “NOW, THEREFORE, the undersigned .membership of this Association do petition the Honorable President and Executive Committee of the Inter- national Longshoremen’s 8 _, Association to institute a trusteeship of the said Local under the terms and conditions outlined in the International Consti- | cution and National Labor- Management Reporting and Disclosure Act, which: trusteeship should con- tinue, until such time as the-International can determine that stable and responsible leadership is restored to the Local ~ making it possible for the membership to engage in collective bargaining with the Baton Rouge Manage- ment and govern their own affairs. "THUS DONE AND SIGNED at Port Allen, Louisiana, this 26th day of June, 1969.” Signed by a group of members. That’s the charges. Now we will ask the witnesses -- MR. JONES: Would you mind naming the members who Signed that to see how many signed? THE CHAIR: On the last one, Mr. Jones, 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 6, 7, 8 -9,:10, 11, kSp S29, 24s MR. JONES: Will you name them for the record’s sake, Bill? | 9 THE.CHAIR: Yes. ‘Louis Harden, Youlon Young -- some of - these are kind of blurred out. MR. COLE: Mr. Chairman. _ THE CHAIR: Yes, Mr. Cole. MR. COLE: If it is agreeable with counsel and to the members of the committee, I would suggest and ° recommend that a.copy of the petition with the affixed thereto be enter- ed into the record and -- MR. MELLER: It will be made part of the record. MR. COLE: -=- perhaps it would Satisfy counsel and answer the problen. - MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Chairman, at this time since you have read the ch Joseph A. Gladney, as counsel for the local union 1830 of I.L.A. and as counsel for Alton J.. Bailey, make a statement? . THE.CHAIR: Yes. MR. GLADNEY: the first place I-want to thank Mr. Chittenden for his very kind remarks that he made a few minutes ago in stating to us that this 10. matter will be a real fair hearing, everybody will be heard thoroughly and a complete record will be made of the facts resulting from this hear- ing. We thank you and we appreciate that. I want to thank Mr. Hopkins and Mr. Miller for -- at my request for having continued this hearing from July 29 till today because I had previous plans to attend a lawyers’ meeting at Denver, Colo- rado, which I was permit- | ted and allowed to do and at the same time be at _ this hearing today, and I do appreciate that con-- Sideration given me by : the committee and by the president. On behalf of Mr. Alton J. Bailey, the president of Local 1830, and the officers‘of the union which I represent, we want. to go on record as pledging to the Honor- _able Thomas W. Gleason, president of I.L.A., com- _ plete support of his policies, his organiza- tion, and state that in no way do the officers ; of this local union desire to,centravene or oppose the policies established Mr. Thomas W. Gleason as| president of I.L.A., a we only oppose -- ll THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney. MR. GLADNEY: -- the hearing at this time -- . THE CHAIR: . Mr. Gladney.. MR. GLADNEY: - Yes. THE CHAIR: I don’t mean to cut you off, but Mr. Ralph Massey is the president of the South Atlantic and Gulf Coast - District, and this comes. . under his jurisdiction; so I just want to let you know he’s in the: building here. MR. GLADNEY: Right. Thank you, Sir. And we also pledge our support to Mr. Massey. I believe he is the district. president. And absolutely Mr. Bailey as president and the offi- cers will carry out the ' wishes of both Mr. Massey and Mr. Gleason, both the district president and the international presi- dent. Now, at the begin- ‘- ning we would like to file -- — | MR. CHITTENDEN: Mr. Gladney, before you get into that . we would like to make one correction to your state- ment. Mr. Miller:is not a member of this particu- _ lar board. Mr. Clarence 12 Henry, international vice president, is him- self a member. Mr. Hopkins is chairman: and Mr. Henry and myself but not Mr. Miller. MR. GLADNEY: Thank you. | Thank you for that infor- mation as to who is on the committee. I had Spoken to Mr. Miller in regard to having & con- tinuance as well as I had spoken to other mem- bers of the committee, and they were all very kind to me and did obtain through Mr. Gleason per- mission to continue this, and I want to thank al] - Of you for that considera- tion. At this time, with .. permission from the chair- _ man, Mr. Hopkins, I would like to file with the com- _ mittee what we term as an opposition to placing Local No. 1830 of the - International Longshore- men’s Association in | trusteeship. "Now comes Local Union No. 1830 of the International Long-.- shoremen’s Association at ‘Port Allen, Louisiana, represented herein by its duly elected president, Alton J. Bailey,” and we would file the original opposition on behalf of. id: the local union, and at this time we would like to read this opposition-- let’s see, did I -- did everyone get the same _ thing? MR. COLE: Mr. Chairman, the | gentleman is here from The Morning -- the report- er is here from The Morning ‘Advocate and State Times. As members of the committee may know this: -- undoubtedly -know, this matter or related matters have been before the court from -time to time -- Federal District Court from time to time, and due to cer- tain pleadings which were filed they were aware of - this meeting. And-a gentleman is present in the meeting hall, and I felt obliged to call this point to the attention of the committee. He would like to remain and report on this hearing, but that’s a matter for. this committee to consicer. MR. HENRY: Mr. Cole, --— | MR. COLE:: Yes, sir. MR. HENRY: -- we appreciate ' the interest of the press ‘and we realize that there probably have been some stories in the past, but - 14 this is not a public ° hearing. We certainly wouldn’t want anything that would get in the . newspapers before the executive council or this committee make any determination whatsoever. For that reason ‘-- ‘that’s | the only reason that we will object to the press. being here. MR. COLE: That’s the reason that I wanted to call it ‘to the committee’s attention that the press was here. I had already. cautioned him that this waS an administrative hearing and -- MR. CHITTENDEN: Because . Otherwise it -- not only that, it would be pre-- prejudiced, because if it hits the newspaper ‘at a time before we have a chance to express our position or even discuss it amongst ourselves it _ Seems like he’s being publicly tried for some- thing that is our Own | personal business. MR. COLE: That is correct. MR. CHITTENDEN: We’re not ; trying to make Scapegoats out of anybody; we’re just looking ‘to try to is find out the truth and — what is the best -- ~- MR. COLE: That’s the reason when the gentleman pre- sented himself..I wanted to be certain that the committee was aware he was in the room. MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Chairman, may I now proceed with my statement? THE CHAIR: You mean the opposition to the hearirg? MR. GLADNEY: Yes, THE | CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, why can’t we to expedite .time introduce that in evidence? If we continue reading all these long documents all day we are ‘going to be here until -- I think we can enter it in evidence and we wil] accept it. MR. .GLADNEY: Yes, sir. Well, we offer this opposition on behalf of the Local Union No. 1830 of the International Longshore- ‘men’s Association and ask that. it be made part of the record in evidence as the pleading for the union itself, briefly Stating that the purposes of the union as stated “16 in both the International Constitution and the Local Constitution are repeated herein at this - time, which the local wants to carry on in the future and has as far as I know been catrving on in the past.. And we do. not think that the evi- dence today will show any- basis or valid legal reason for placing the union in trusteeship. And with that statement on behalf of the union I would like to -- THE CHAIR: May I ask you, Mr. Gladney, before you enter that in evidence, is that ' Opposition by the union or by a few members? MR. GLADNEY: This opposition ° is on behalf of the -- THE CHAIR: Who is it on behalf of, Mr. Bailey or the union? . MR. GLADNEY: It’s on behalf -- I represent the Local : Union No. 1830, Interna- tional Longshoremen, rep- resented by Alton J. Bailey, and it’s on. behalf of Mr. Bailey and the hundred and twenty odd members of the union who have signed a petition attached to Mr. Bailey’s 17 opposition which states this, that, “We, the undersigned members of - Local #1830 I.L.A., Port_ Allen, La., do hereby express our complete — faith and confidence in Alton J. Bailey, duly elected President of said. Local #1830, and do’ hereby further express our complete approval of the manner in which he has conducted and is con- ducting the affairs of this organization, and do hereby declare that thee are no conditions exist- ing within this organiza- tion they can skip the dis- trict convention: they 23 can skip the district executive board and go into the convention. So any one of the actions they, can do. This was presented to the Inter- national; so any one per-. Son on either side can bring this up. | So, it’s a long drawn out affair, but the International constitution supersedes that one. ' ' MR. GLADNEY: I appreciate your comments, Gentlemen, . but the next section is the one I referred to. “At the same meeting at which received ---” when this charge was received by the Local, “all written complaints shall be | referred to the Grievance Committee, unless two- thirds of the membership present at said meeting vote to refuse to enter- tain any one or more such complaints.” It is our position in filing this opposition that over two- thirds of the membership of this union have had the opportunity to read the charges and are oppa ed to I.L.A. International through the executive council or the president in placing the union in trusteeship and at this time we would like to 24 file this opposition to the hearing’on behalf of Alton J. Bailey. He further takes the posi- tion that, “This trial committee is without jurisdiction---” This is a legal argument we’d > like to make to Your Honors, that “This trial committee is without ju-. risdiction to hear any disciplinary charges brought against Alton J. Bailey, as president or - a member of Local 1830, because the charges were not. preferred. or initiated by filing written charges with the Recording Secre- tary of Local 1830 of ILA as required by Section 3 of Article XVIII of the Constitution and Rules of Order---” of the Inter- national organization, AFL-CIO, and it fails to comply with Sections l, 2, and 3 of Article XVI of the Constitution and By-Laws. of the Local _—_ Union 1830. And there- fore, in view of the pro- cedure taken if the com- mittee continues to hear this without going through and complying with both constitutions, we take the position that such a procedure here would be in violation.of the Con-. Stitution of ILA-- of 295 Logal 1830 of ILA to | place Local 1830 in - trusteeship, this trial committee and the offi- cers of ILA are in vio- lation of the court order and: judgment granting a preliminary injunction Signed June 27, 1969, by Honorable E. Gordon West, in which he enjoins the International from Pplac- ing the Local in trustee-. ship, unless it does comply with the Interna- tional constitution which Your Honor has at hand. His opposition is that the charges as presented to Alton Bailey did not follow the International Constitution and, there-/ fore, you would be in : violation of the injunc- tion that we -- was. obtained in the case that you gentlemen are familiar with. The charging Parties here are parties of conflicting interest, one or more of whom are — officers of Local 1830,. and the officers are interested in -- may I Point out the section that I referred to in the International Constitu- tion? The charges are invalid under the Consti- tution and Rules of Order, I.L.A., and Order’ grant- ing preliminary injunctian 26 in the judicial proceed- ing entitled Alton Bailey, et_ al. versus George Dixon, et al., Civil Action Number 69-109 of the docket of the United States District Court for .the Eastern DAstrict of Louisiana. e charges are invalid because they - are contrary to the appli- cable provisions of the National Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act of 1959 as amended. The charging parties are attempting to replace the officers of the Local 1830 without a constitu- tional election and con- trary to democratic pro- cesses. The petition of specific charges‘is too vague, indefinite and so weak -- pt THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, at the hearing with Judge E. Gordon West you stated everything you said, but he advised the Interna- tional to come back and- give a fair hearing, and that’s what we are here to do today -- MR. GLADNEY: Right. THE CHAIR: =-- regardless of what you Say. MR. GLADNEY: Right, Sir. 27 THE CHAIR: We are here to Give a fair hearing. And we asked you, to start off with, to expedite time if you have those charges and things to put - them in evidence and we ‘ would accept them so could go ahead on with the hearing. Now, if we Sat here and let you read all day we never would’ get through with this hearing. ‘MR. GLADNEY: ‘Well, I’m just almost through. THE CHAIR: Well, you told me that 30 minutes ago you~’ were almost through. | MR. GLADNEY: Yes, sir, but -- MR. CHITTENDEN: Mr. Gladney,. you keep saying you’re almost through and you just keep reading the record, and you are just ignoring us on it. THE CHAIR: Yes, so we’re just | asking if --- MR. CHITTENDEN: The question number one, we want to correct a difference of opinion. The constitu- tion and order of the International Longshore- * men’s Association, AFL/CIO this was adopted July © 28 17-21, 1967, in Miami Beach, Florida; this is the last one. Article XX, Trusteeship, which is page 44, Section 3, and _I might read: “Whenever charges which allege a violation by a Local Union District Council or Dis- trigt organization, and/a its officers, within the meaning of Section 1 of this Article, have been filed with the Executive Council, or whenever it has assumed jurisdiction over such charges filed with a Local Union, Dis- trict Conneil, or Dis- trict organization, the Executive Council shall have the following powers, which it —y | exercise prior to a hearing or de- cision on such charges: --" -«-which gives us the full power and authority to hear these charges, which gives us the right at this particular time to be in here and hear these particular charces, and this is what we say-- WR. GLADNEY: Well, I under- Stand that’s your posi- tion, Mr. Chittenden, and in all due respect you may be correct and we may be correct as a matter of law that these charges should have 29... initiated with the local union. The way I inter- pret your constitution they should have been initiated -- THE CHAIR: Well, Mr. Gladney, again I am going to have to call your attention to _the fact that Mr. Bailey has been given the chaross the secretary of the local has been given then “= given the charges, and we're here to try the case today. MR. GLADNEY: 0.K. All right, sir. THE CHAIR: We are asking ee to refrain from all that long reading so we can Proceed with the trial. MR. GLADNEY: All right, sir. I’a almost’ through; I’ve got one other thing -- THE CHAIR: You told me that minutes ago you were ‘ almost through. , MR. GLADNEY: I know that. I have another point to make, which is -- THE CHAIR: Well, now, wait, wait. We ask you to enter that into the record, Mr. Gladney, ; because we’re not going 30 sit here and let you take due advantage of us ' by reading all that stuff in the record before we can proceed with this hearing. MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Chariman, I ; want to say to you that I have no intention of taking advantage of you -- THE CHAIR: You have just read hy -- you have taken the position that this trial committee -- MR. GLADNEY: I have no in- tentions of taking advantage of anybody. THE CHAIR: You have just put it in the record that this trial committee had no authority to have this hearing. Wow, we know we do have authority and we are going to proceed with the hearing whether you think so_or not. MR. GLADNEY: All right, sir. Well, I’m not -- I’m not trying to oppose you. THE CHAIR: Well, it’s the last time I will ask you to enter that in the record. MR. GLADNEY: I just want to make our legal point, 31 which I think you should allow us to in order to have a fair hearing. You have to -- | | THE CHAIR: We’re going to give _ you a fair hearing, Mr. Gladney. : : MR. MILLER: Mr. Gladney, May I state something. You have all this documented in black and white. The chairman has said that ‘you may enter it all into the record. After this hearing there will be an entire record made of the hearing. The committee will take the record and make a recommendation to the executive council based on the entire record, which will include whatever you have been reading into the record. MR. GLADNEY: Yes, sir. At this time we would like to enter this original f opposition to the hearing on behalf of Alton J. Bailey as a member and president of Local Union 1830, I.L.A. I°11 give each one of you a copy of. it. Now, since the - Opposition pleading has been filed in the record, the next point that we make in regard to the 32 _charges is that they are - too vague to have us - legally respond to them in a legal and sound fashion, which is also a point of law, Mr. Chair- man, and which we think -is a sound point of law. "The ‘Petition of Speci- fication of Charges’ is too vague, indefinite and so latent with ambiguity to be sufficient to serve notice of --" ‘union are our witnesses. We have no-- all of them- but we would like to obje rt ve: te ho THE CHAIR: Well, they a 3 to if the trial court has ruled that officers ‘can’t stay in here like _Leroy Smith and Alton Bailey and any officers who are of the union, be- . cause all of them are affected by these charges brought by the charging - parties asking that the union be put in trustee- Ship. All of them will be suspended, and I think thate-- - _MR. COLE: Mr. Chairman-- THE CHAIR: Mr. Cole. | MR. COLE: «=. you will excuse me, please. -At least. . three of the witnesses who have just excused them= Selves from the room are officers of this local. Certainly each and every member of this local is ‘going to be affected by the decision of this trial committee here to-- day, and such an argument-- have no objection to - anybody staying that wants to stay, but if the com-. mittee is going to excuse the witnesses then I would: adopt the position that. all of the witnesses need to be excused. _ : are \.¢ going to be excused, o 62 MR. HENRY: All except Mr. Bailey. Se ge ~ MR. COLE: ‘I would -except Mr. Bailey, of course. . MR. JONES: We take the posi=-. tion that all of the officers of the local -— fall in the same category ‘ relative to these proce- dures as Mr. Bailey does; ‘they all are respondents; they all are charged-- all of the officers are charged; they are parties to this suit, and all ; parties have the right to remain. : MR. HENRY: Mr. Jones, I know that you and your asso- ciate, Mr. Gladney, are 3° very familiar with proce- - dures. Now, we ask the. charging party witnesses . who are to testify to step outside. We cer- tainly -couldn’t give the advantage that tHey are going to sit in here and listen to every one of ‘these witnesses come in and then come up and try to say something. -If they are going to testify -~ they would not have heard what the other witnesses said whatsoever. Their testimony would not | depend upon what the witness said. Their , a ~ : 63 ‘testimony is to come in ‘here and tell us what they know about these _Gharges whether they are | . Yight or whether -they-are. a wrong. Now, you’ve been . in court many, many days. You know they put witnesses out. They don’t let one ‘ witness sit in here and | hear what the other fellow SayS and have his answer all set when the man gets through and calls him. MR. JONES: I appreciate your position, Mr. Henry. [I know: exactly what you are Saying.. But what we main- -* Bailey is in. They are all parties and-in court whenever there is a hear- ing the parties +o the _ Suit have the right to. remain in the court. MR. CHITTENDEN: On a point Le there, Mr. Jones, you ' - know as well as we do and - certainly you make an issue-- MR. JONES: Yas. MR. CHITTENDEN: --then it . becomes a question, a Fe moot. case. -How does a member sue his Parent » £©rganization if it also 64 - inethe end, the ultimate end, he affects himself because he’ > a portion of it too? It’s a fact on this thing The Chair has ruled certainly every.member on both sides, certainly the mem- bers on-Mr. Bailey’s side, cer-. tainly the members on these © ‘other people’s side, whoever the people may be, certainly they are affected also. To be fair and impartial then. the intelligent thing to do is to exclude everybody who is go- ing to be a witness, and we want y the names-of the witnesses. ‘We are not going to accept the whole organization as a witness for the simple reason if the whole organization becomes a ‘witness for your side, then how do you go about saying that the opponents of yours are going to be a witness for your side too - because they are members of the organization? So we are saying to you, we want you to name your witnesses ahd those who are going to be witnesses will be excused except Mr. Bailey. . JONES: Mr. Chittenden, what “I'm saying is that we are not using the words “affected by.” We are distinguishing the words “affected by” from parties to this hearing. All of. them surely will be affected by this hearing * -_but they all are not parties to this hearing, and that’s the distinction that we are raising. 65 Now, all officers are parties to this hearing by virtue of the pleadings, by the charges. - MILLER: May I point’ out to you, Mr. Jones, that although they do in the charges state officers the only one against whom the charges have been recognized is Mr. Bailey. As you will ncte from ' the correspondence back and forth, Mr. Bailey is the one to whom the charges were sent personally. The executive council has not recognized charges against any other officer at this time. - GLADNEY: I’d like to-- in ré- Sponse to Mr. Miller’s statement as counsel for the committee, the trial committee, I’d like to State that a further reason for . this hearing being illegal and invalid is because the purpose . of it, as I understand, is only — to determine whether or not the union would be placed in trust- eeship and one of the-- - MILLER: May I correct you there? There are two alterna- tives here. There are charges . Personally against Mr. Bailey and a request for’a trusteeship. © Now, the committee may take either side and act. on the charges acainst Mr. Bailey personally and take action against Mr. Bailey if that is the decision or it may make a recommendation that the entire loca] may be placed into trusteeship. There are two BB 3 NR. MR. MR. 66 alternatives for this committee and I think that the correspon- dence will indicate that. . JONES: That is true, Mr. Miller, that there are two alter- natives, perhaps, but if that is true this is a hearing on both at the same time. . - MILLER: That is correct. . JONES: ‘This hearing is common to both. . MILLER: That is correct. — - JONES: Since this hearing is common to both, then both-- all parties to this hearing have a right to remain in. -GLADNEY: O.K. May I make one point of order, Mr. Miller? MILLER, Yes, sir. GLADNEY: Assuming-- you may be j Miller, but according’ — to the charges as I read then, they conclude with this: "NOW, THEREFORE, the under- signed. membership of this Association do petition the Honorable President and Execu- tive Committee of the Inter- national Longshoreman’s Asso- ciation to institute a trust- eeship of the said Local under the terms and_conditions out- ‘ lined in the International 67 Constitution and the National Labor~Mariagement Reporting and Disclosure Act, which trusteeship Should continue -until Such time as the Inter- national can determine that stable. and responsible leader-. ship -is restored to the Local - making it possible for the ‘membership to engage in col- lective bargaining with the ‘Baton Rouge Management and govern their own affairs.” Now, the way I read these charges they do not say that this ‘is for the. purpose of charging Mr. Bailey with wrongdoing and for the purpose of Placing the local in trusteeship. As I read all of the whereases and the conclu- Sion of the charges are simply pointed at one Purpose, whether or not this trial committee will recommend to the international President or the executive coun- cil to place the local union in trusteeship. . Now, I may be wrong but that’s the way I inter- @ charges. MR. MILLER: You see, Mr. Gladney, you are interpreting this as an attorney. As Mr. Chittenden pointed out to you, under the rules of the I.L.A. or any other union for that matter any person 68. take the formality of a com- plaint. It can be a letter to. an officer of the union stating _ that so and so did this at this time, et cetera. This is all that is necessary to institute a hearing. This is what was done today. Now, what will develop here wil] determine what the report will be to the executive council-- MR. GLADNEY: All right, sir, but-- MR. MILLER: --and what action will be taken thereon.- MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Miller, I under- stand what you say, and if what you say is correct then Alton Gailey is personally being & charged with the violation of © some provision of the constitu- tion which is not specified in these charges and we object to ‘the hearing insofar as being personal charges against him for ‘that. reason also because we think that if these are personal charges against him other than just plac- ing the union in trusteeship he should not only be told what pro- vision of the constitution he violated and also what acts of facts that he did wrong and which violated the specific pro- vision of the constitution. . MR. MILLER: I think the charges spell out what he is being charged with but I think it'will- be developed here as I said. s 69 This is not-- it is not necessary ‘here .to have a formal complaint spelling everything out. That ’s the purpose of the hearing. | Everything will be spelled out Sta, PREPARE Be uBR BER oa, parties to substantiate whatever they have charged in their peti- tion. - CHITTENDEN: | Gentlemen, I keep stating on this- thing I think “you're prejudging Mr. Bailey and his people on this thing, but here’s the thing -- the members | have made these charges -- we are. here as a hearing. If these - people give us enough to warrant any particular thing, we cer- tainly. would tell Mr. Bailey. . Supposing by the same virtue they have’ not convinced this commit- tee, then we will rule that there was insufficient. evidence for any type of charge. Now this is a hearing. We are not here charging to Say we are against. Bailey or the local or for or against these other people. This is what we are Saying. We want to hear. what these people have to say. If they say Mr. Bailey did this, we want to hear them Say it and we want to have Mr. - Bailey’s counter offer of what -he did. Then it’s up to this committee to rule whether they have enough to prefer these type of charges. But the case is this. You people -are constantly trying him as a guilty matter before he THE 70 get a chance to a . GLADNEY: No-- CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, we are not going to sit here and listen to all of this kind _of argument. We are-asking you to give us THE the names of your witnesses -- _ GLADNEY: On that point is what I am stand- ing for, Mr. Chairman. You made the state- ment that you wanted us to give the names of the witnesses-- CHAIR: Right. ; GLADNEY: --and it’s impossible to know which witnesses are involved because the charges in the-- the written charges are indefinite as to who is involved and who: can be present who knows about it. Not until we hear the evidence from. the charges are we going to know what witnesses we, can use. So it’s impossible for us to give you the names in advance of-who we may-- CHAIR: Well, we are going to have to have them. A ae . GLADNEY: We. will give them to you as we call then. CHAIR: Well, they all have to go out then. You can call them as you want then. Put them all out. 3 by . GLADNEY: - Well; the only thing, Mr. Chair: man-- CHAIR: Put them all out. . HENRY: Put them all out. THE MR. “THE MR. | CHAIR: - All of them go out but Mr. Bailey. © GLADNEY: All out but Mr. Bailey? | CHAIR: Right..— 2 GLADNEY: That’s your ruling. We except to the ruling so far as the officers are concerned, but we understand that’s your ruling and we will comply with it. Every- body goes out but Mr. Bailey. | - COLE: It is my understanding then that all of the membership of Local 1830 is excluded from ‘this hearing. CHAIR: Well, what he said, Mr. Cole, he may call either one of then. - GLADNEY: That’s right. = CHAIR: Unless ‘he would give us names, we don’t know who they are. «COLE: | Well, I just wanted to be sure . that--— CHAIR: I mean we don’t want to do that. » COLE: «J understood the ruling. CHAIR: We don’t want to do that, Mr. Cole, but he might actually call one of the fellows we leave in here-- - COLE: _¥ee.|- CHAIR: --and inasmuch as he won’t give 'us the names, let them all go out. - CHITTENDEN: In that particular case, then that witness definitely would not be gg | .° er acceptable testimony to us. THE CHAIR: .If he wants to leave somebody in here, then he can’t.call them asa witness. MR. CHITTENDEN: If anyone stays in here from ' the membership of that local, be it thor- oughly understood that -he cannot be called . as a witness for either side because we will not allow him to testify on either side, for or against. — SO | MR. COLE: Bearing that ruling in mind, then I. would request that the chairman also exclude Mr. J. Harvey Netter, who-is pre- sent in this-room. I ask that he be ex- cluded because ‘it may very well be that he will be called as a witness in this matter. THE CHAIR: To the attorneys-- inasmuch as this is not a court hearing, it’s a hear- ing instituted by the International Presi- dent, this committee is requesting. that everybody but the accused be eliminated from the’ room ard: we’ll call the witnesses as we need then. MR. GLADNEY: In view of this ruling by the trial court we-want the record to show. that we will except to the trial.commit- tee’s ruling insofar as it requires the officers of the union who filed the inter- vention in this matter to leave the hearing ° room. -Everybody leave the room. . MR. CHITTENDEN: Then we’d also like.to state that-- let the record show that there are officers on both sides, for and against, being excused from the room. All members of Local 1830 will be excused because the — attorneys from either side may call them as witnesses. , ie 73 ——“{THE WITNESSES LEFT THE HEARING ROOM. ) THE CHAIR: Mr. Cole. MR. COLE: The charging parties would like for ° the committee to call first Mark Young, _the- financial Secretary of Local 1830. THE WITNESS, MARK YOUNG, HAVING BEEN SWORN TO “TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING: BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP HIM GOD, ‘TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: * MR. COLE: In connection with the witness’ testimony three documents will be intro- duced. I will furnish them to the witness "and once his testimony is concluded we’]] ‘ ask that they be made a part of- the record. . ‘ DIRECT EXAMINATION . f BY MR. COLE: | Q. Mr. Young, what is your position with I.L.A. Local 1830?. = he A. Secretary-treasurer. 0. When were y.ou elected to this office? A. Inthe last election.. Q. When was that held, please? " It was held in -- in the first of the veer, - And you’ve been sworn in as the secretary- treasurer? | Ay Yes, sir. PRs Have you been acting as the treasurer of ' the local? Ab eX. | 74 A. Yes, sir. .Q. Now, you have in your hands two documents which enumerate certain checks. One is headed “Southeastern Terrinals”; the other one is “Paid to Local 1830 by Burn- ._ side Terminal,” is that correct? . A. Yes. 9. Where did you get ‘those lists, please? A. These lists came from these particular companies. 'Q. And who got them; did you get them your- self from the representatives of the companies? A. I beg your pardon? Q. Did you get them yourself from the repre- sentatives of the companies, the lists? A. Yes. Q. All right. And -- MR. GLADNEY: May I see them? (THE WITNESS TENDERED SAME TO MR. GLADNEY. ) BY MR. COLE: — Q. com > oO) A. Yes, sir. es Q7 cate list and there were several other people. . Who opened the safe? This fellow from A-1 Safe ‘Company. Oh: you had a Safe man come to open it? Yes, sir. | That answers the question. I wanted to know because they said that they didn’t have the\combination. I wanted to check and see who opened the safe. > ae One other question. The bank box that you used to have, what was the number of that bank box? The bank box? The safety deposit -- when you get your mail, is the mail delivered te you -- You mean the post office box? _7- or to the post office box? 197. 197. Under this new bank -- | ! No, that’s the post office box. The post office, that’s what I say: now, in this case here now, you still receive your mail to your knowledge under that one -- by post office box 197? A. QO. oF To my knowledge, 197. That will be all. .. WR. CHITTRIDAI: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. GLADNEY: Q. Oh, Mr. Gladne Mr. Mark Younc, —. Yes, sir. -- you were elected financial secretary the first of the. year I believe is your testi- mony. Yes, sir, the last election. The les electica. Did you support Harvey Netter for president at that time? Yes, si Te \ And you’ve | an officer of the union atong with Harvey Netter as president for the past how y years? ; I think it dates back to 1956: the local‘was about one year old. And the people who voted for Harvey Netter also supported you for office, did they noi? ) Not necessarily; not necessarily. A good many of them? . Not necessarily. You’ll find one count _ where one winner had 87 and one had 130. ——e 0. A. Qo. A. Q. A. Q. A. “0. A. 0 A. Q. A. -Q 99 So that isn’t indicative of solid support right down the line. And who ran against Harvey Netter for president? Mr. Bailey. And who else ran against him? Mr. Boudreaux, Mr. Antoine’ Boudreaux. : Who ran against Harvey Netter for president besides Mr. Bailey? Mr. Beudreaux. In that election did you support Harvey Netter? Ne Yes, sir, I supported Mr. Netter. And you’ve been opposed to Alton Bailey in the election as president? Mr. Gladney, if I’m with Mr. Netter I couldn’t support the rest of them. I -- And who - elected president at that election ; The first election there was 4 run-off. Mr. Netter -- in the first election Mr. Netter was the hich man, Mr. Bailey was second and Mr. Boudreaux was eliminated. And in the second run-off did you support Marvey Netter? I won my election. And did you support Harvey Netter for LT A. Q. 100 president in the. run-off? Yes, I won with him: the first go around I won: naturally I’d stick with him the second time. And were you at the meeting when Alton . Bailey was installed as president? Well, they had two goinc om. Which one you have reference to? ‘ Well, explain both of then. We had one took place on -- on one Sunday, and the other one took place when Mr. Chittenden came down. Which one did you attend? I attended the last one. Now, can you give us your reason for not attending the first installation? Becapse I had read a telecram that was sent from the district president, Mr. Ralph A. Massey, and he said that WOrry. ; GLADNEY: _I understand it’s his testimos that the answer:is no, but we are going ’ put him on there to put that in the rec ’ OHITTENDEN: We'd like to recommend -- 1 are also stating that. we want Mr. Mark Young to bring his bank book, bank state ments, bank receipts and canceled check: from the bank that he has signed and co: signed checks, which is the West Baton "Rouge bank. Mr. Chariman, I do not have the cancele checks thatvyreturned. I do not know where-- I do not have access to them, a! oe eee S I’m going to say this because something . may ‘be expected of me in an effort -- BY MR. CHITTENDEN: i MR. -\@ question on-that. BY MR. HENRY: Q. If you don’t have. them, Mr. Young, say you are not in possession of those particular items, which you don’t have them: just -State that you are not in possession of ‘those items, that’s all, but bring what you have in your possession. © ‘HENRY: “Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask . You are the secretary-treasurer. - Yes, Sir. You don’t get the cancéled checks back; — ‘they don’t come to you? . 2 Mr. Chair -- I mean, Mr. Henry, what I want to say here is now we -+ it’s just -- we are between the president, there’s something conflicting there, one officer abridging the other. I:-do not have that. These -- these things are locked in the Safe and I don’t have that. ‘BY MR. CHITTENDEN: Just say you don’t have them; they are not . in your possession. No. . I’ imagine they are somewhere but . I don’t have that, Mr. Chittenden. ta BY MR. HENRY: Pe Since you went to court and the judge ordered you to cooperate with the presi- dent and sicn checks paying bills and whatnot, has that account of any -- from . the First National Bank been turned ‘over No you as secretary-treasurer so that you would know what was in the other account’ I left that -- I-Teft the judge’s court « June 23rd, and just as much as I heard about my being uncooperative today‘since I’ve been here, and that’s:a lot of time left, nobody handed over any account to z _ nobody told me anything. Brother Bailey . THE MR. sees ‘me around there'‘periodically. He never told me anything, I’m restrained, I didn’t tell him anything. -I went on and made out these accounts because I didn’t want to get in trouble with that judge there, and I wrote these checks out. Now that’s since -- since the 23rd of June an the whole of July passed; nobody said’ any thing to me; nobody turned over any money or any checks to me. . CHAIR: Do you all‘have any more question Any. more questions? GLADNEY: Yes, I’ve got some more questio BY MR. GLADNEY:’ ‘ >. 4 A. Then in answer to my prior questions is it -- neither you. have been cooperating with Mr. Bailey and you think he hasn’t been cooperating with you in regard-to th two offices, financial secretary and oresident 7 Mr. Gladney, I ran ona ticket with Mr. “Netter and somehow that done got to be a sin, -but just actually you.can support wh a ‘the who 119 you want and when you want. ‘And every time I come up here, oh; Mr. Netter is at it again. If somebody stomps their foot, - Mr. Netter done it. Mr. Netter got as much right to run ‘for president as anybody in the world, :and I ran on Mr. Netter’s ticket, and I emerged, and out of that ; election some lost, some won, but I emerged | as the highest position on the ticket, so it’s only natural that all this that’s never ending would’ settle on me.- And what -- and what’s the rext move? Process of elimination, we’ve got to get him out: we’ve got to move Him. And that’s a com- mon term on the dock board, "Yes, that fark, let’s get. him out; we got to move | him.” And what I’m trying to say here --- BY MR. HENRY: | Q» Mr. Young, will you cease your remarks, please? We are not interested in any poli- tics within the union whatsoever. T think if we ask you a question in order to get the prover information you should answer it, but as far as politics in the union this committee is not interested in it whatsoever. Think youe I knew what the question ‘meant. BY MR. GLADNEY: I’ show you.a document marked ‘Charging Party #1” and ask you who you. received it From and when?. ’ | - This came from Southeastern Terminal. + _Who is the person that you received it - from? .* . | - , 120 Well, it came from their aduinistrative department’. : You can ‘t name the person you talked to? Well, it came from their administrati've department. I. imagine it’s somebody over there: the general manager is Mr. ‘Richard Daniel.. ; Yes, but who is the,perSon,’ the mah or’ woman who handed you this document?: This was 2 Calenhane onversation. who the subsidiaries are over there, not know. Now, __ I do. Who did you talk to on the phone? I talked with the general manager, and I -asked him if: he could.prepare me a list of the checks he had mailed to Local 1830 over a certain. period. tection. : This was for my pro- Who. prepared the list for you? I.do not now who prepared it. How did you receive it, by mail? it came by nail. | And ite ‘did you receive it? ~ I don’t know the date on I’d have to get it and look ° Sincting after: the envelope. L at it. ss : “And what period of time did you ask the a ——E manager for a record on the checks issued? * 4 = A. it bring it up current.” . Who did you request it from? =); oo -I told him I’d like to have it for the end’ of the suarter, and this was after-the cuarter had.vassed. -I asked him would he _go back ‘to the end of the ‘quarter and get . it for me, and I1 said, While you are at " When.iscthe end of the: quarter? June 30th; and I asked him to. bring it -up current and-so he brought it on through--. You made the request’ for this document after _ July lst? ' Tey as ne ee E Now, I have another one I made a request from Cargo Carriers; it hasn’t got here yet. | sass, . ° a The general manager. . What is his name? . Mr.. Best as far as I know, Mr. Tom Best-- that’s Cargo Carriers. CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, it’s &@ general proce- « dure, not-only-in Lecal 1830 but—all the ——— I.L.A. .loéals, for. their own protection to. call the company’s payroll department and recuest a copy of the last part of the payroll to see whether. they are being treated richt. Mr. Young has done no more than anybody else in the I.L.A.; that’s- the general procedure. And a lot of times you don’t know who in the heck you are talking to. You talk to somebody in the payroll department, let them know you: represent the local, what local you are representing, and you request that (122 information, and thie are forced to give it to you under our contract. ; GLADNEY: I’m only trying to establish, _Mr. Chairman, who prepa» sed this document. CHAIR: He eeu *t know? he. doesn’t know who prepared it. All he -- he requested them to prepare it. It doesn’t make any ‘difference because ‘somebody in the company prepared it. He-don’t go down there and ‘put his finger on who write-- who sends it. . GLADNEY: | Well, that’s what I’m trying to establish. ; CHAIR: He couldn’t tell ‘you that because I couldn’t, and nobody else could tell you that. . GLADNEY: He doesn’t know -- really know that somebody in the company prepared it; he doesn’t know who prepared it, -- BY MR. GLADNEY: — =) -*.** do you: you don’t know who prepared this document, do you? “I beg your pardon? - You do not know who prepared the document marked "Charging Party #1”? - Weil, whoever prepared it they had asked us for these canceled -- for these checks - here that they had mailed out prior and a few of them coincide, these checks richt here. Whoever prepared them had these and these had been mailed prior, so evidentlv it was somebody that knew what they were doing, checked the number of those that we 123 wanted to check on. Whoever it was knew what they were doing. . Okay. Now, I show you-a document marked "Charging Party #2” and ask you who you “received it from and when? That came from Ramsay Scarlett and Cargo - Carriers: Ramsay Scarlett is more or less the parent company, and Southeastern Ter- minal is an offspring, but it more or less come out the same book work department so these came in the same invoice. : Both of them came from the same company? But I think these people will identify themselves with that. : Well, I’m asking you, though, who you got it from? Nal I got it in the mail. And who did you talk to on the phone when you renuested:it?. 3 ; - CHITTENDEN: Mr. Gladney, you are wasting-- © CHAIR: You are wasting our time. CHITTENDEN: You are wasting our time now. We are going to stop this thing. We are ° going to call your hand on all of these thinas because you are going to constantly come down -- he’s told you' about 25 times-- you are aggravating the committee: he has told you about 25 times he don’t,know. Now, I’m sure that Mr.. Netter and Mr. Bailey don’t: know: I don’t know and you Jheard the Chairman say that he don’t know how they prepared it and if he don’t know he told yon that. Now; after all, once he 124 - Says Se don’t know, it’s in the records © that he don’t know. You don’t have to constantly press the question because there’s nothing he can do, mainly because we are going to call his hand if he does Say it, because --— Do MR. GLADNEY:~ Thank you. THE CHAIR: i are wasting time because I was going to just=-- : MR. CHITTENDEN: ixi-+ht now let me say this. We aiso have anocher federal court in New & Orleans tomorrow, so if we go right now you are just prepared to stay here until midnight tonight, and this is not going to be adjourned andi come back tomorrow or the nevt day. You just might as well make your- self recognize the fact that if you are goinc to prolong it, constantly prolong it, we, are going to start shortening your time because we can’t -- we’ve got a. federal — court in Judoe Christenberry’s tomorrow and we’ ve gct to be there so we are going to start shortering you down by this com- mittee. SESS A. (The witness did not reply.) BY MP. GLADNEY: | Q. I show you a document marked “Charging Party #3” and ask you who prepared that document ? THE CHAIR: You are asking the same question, Mr. Gladney. He don’t know who prepared ~ it. MR. COLE: I think he does know who prepared this one-- | 125 THE CHAIR: He does? MR. COLE: --may it please the trial committee. A. “s That was --‘that was prepared by the office secretary. . . te | BY MR. GLADNEY: The office secretary. Now, you testified about the executive committee of Local 1830 ‘having a meeting at which time a motion or resolution was made to the executive com- mittee in regard to decreasing the initia- _. tion fee for the local union. Can you tell us when this executive committee meeting was supposed to have been held and where? I beg your pardon? You’ve testified that. it was presented to the executive committee of your Local 1830 a motion to reduce the initiation fee for your local. Yes, sir. ‘When did that meet ing take place? . I don’t know the date but it took Place at. the hall, and anyway the executive board voted it down. ' Well, who was present at that meeting when it was voted down? ’ ° Oh, Mr. Gladney, that’s a ‘job. You see, we have sixteen officers in the local. They got. somewhere around 18 or 20 appoint- ed, something like that. Now, everybody wasn’t there, but it was ‘enough for the confusion, you see, to help. confuse it. ‘THE ets, 126 Who took the minutes of that- executive committee? Oh; I imagine the recording secretary. Who is that? Jones. Can you tell us “eleuat when it was; was it after Mr. Dixon came and attempted to place the union in trusteéship or was it. before that? I -- I don’t know. Was Mr. -- CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, have you act very many more questions? . GLADNEY: Yes. CHAIR: Have you got very many more ques- tions of this witness? GLADNEY: Just a few re on things that he talked about. © CHAIR: How lona -- I mean how many more ouestions? ‘“GLADNEY: T-can’t tell you exactly. CHAIR: We are going to adjourn this ‘meet-_ ing until 3 o’clock. at . GLADNEY: Okay. We’1ll be back at 3:00. CHAIR: We want to instruct Mr. Bailey to brino the records, the checkbooks and the a Sa checks from the: First National ank. Ww THE THE PSAP CELE IA HE MCI ORE IE 127 . BAILEY: I don’t have those. CHAIR: Who has them, Mr. Bailey? I: 1 Nave thee. CHAIR: I beg your pardon? BAILEY: I have then. CHAIR: You have them?: Will you bring them back? | . BAILEY; Can I bring them back?. CHAIR: Yes. . BAILEY: I have to go to Port Allen to-do that -- in-order to do that. . CHAIR: You don’t have time to go. get | them? We are going to have to have then.: - BAILEY:. Well, I mean I would like to eat the same as anybody else -- 3 CHAIR: Just cross ‘the bridge and -- - BAILEY: =- in one hour CHAIR: We are going to have to have then. Get somebody to go get them; Mr. Bailey. ‘The committee is instructing you to bring THE them back. - COLE: I would ask the committee to instruct also that the.canceled checks which are in the safe apparently in the office on the First -- on the Bank of West Baton Rouge also be brought back, too. CHAIR: Right. ey Capes yo NS S28 (RECESSED FOR LUNCH AT 1:55P.M.) BY MR. JONES: ‘O. ° Rs Q. _ THE - MR. THE 2 A. Mr. Young, --. Yes, sir. -- how long have you been the financial secretary of the organization? CHAIR: Mr. Jones, -- - JONES: Yes, sir. CHAIR: -- I don’t think we should keep repeating it. ~Mr. Gladney has gone through . that procedure asking Mr. Young how long he has been sécretary and all, and I think your-- ' JONES: That’s the only question -- CHAIR: -- question -- : JONES: That ’s the only question, may it please the committee, that I’m going to ask. .CHAIR: All right, please. MR. JONES: Yes, sir: Since from the latter part of ’63. BY MR. JONES: | _Q. Now, at the time that you opened the safe when you took thi’s organization over in trusteeship, was Mr. Bailey present? ‘As I beg ‘your pardon? gh THE | . JONES: At the time that Mr. Dixon and Mr. THE THE 129 Was Mr. Bailey present at the time you all got a locksmith to open the safe? Was he present? Yes.. CHAIR: What was the question? Young had a locksmith to open the safe and take things from the safe. I want to know whether -or not -- They -- he had been over there arguing. I don‘t recall -- CHAIR: Excuse me. I don’t think that Mr. Young should answer that question. Mr. Dixon is the man that ordered that safe opened, and I don’t think Mr. -Young should have to answer it. ‘ - JONES: And the reason why I’m asking the question, Mr. Chairman, is that at the time that the safe -was opened and things were being taken from it that Mr. Bailey or a. representative of Mr. Bailey should have been there in order to witness what was being taken out of it in order to know whether or not that everything was accounted for on the check-out list. : ae CHAIR: Well, at the same time Mr. Dixon ordered the safe opened and Mr. Dixon had had conversation with Mr. Bailey, and I don’t think Mr. Young -- it’s going to be only hearsay what Mr. Young says and I think there shouldn’t be any hearsay. - JONES: He was there; he should remember. 130 THE CHAIR: He -- I‘don’t think he. was with Mr. Dixon ‘gen times. “BY-MR. JONES: ; A. Were you there at the time that the lock- ap smith was there? | a I was somewhere in the.vicinity. They had an officer or some deputy sherNf was . there too, when that thing was opened, and that’s not the only copy. The office secretary itemized the things a ie had access to the safe and she itemized those things and listed them on there. Mr. Dixon didn’t prepare that list. . | Q. I understand. But Mr. Bailey wasn’t there? -A., I don’t know if he was there or not. He - had -- he had been around that morning earlier but I don’t know if he was there. -Q. Was he in jail? A. I don’t know. —Q. Had: you all had him arrested at that time? THE-CHAIR: Again Mr.—Younc’ did-not- have -Mr. Bailey arrested. | MR. JONES: Okay. I'll leave that alone, sir. A. (The witness did not reply.) BY MR. JONES: Q. Now, I give you -- let me show you these check-out lists again here, Mr. Young, © “Charging Party 1,” “Charging Party 2,” re? 131. FF oO Fr DO s THE you see those? - Yes, Sir. You are familiar with them? I’ve looked -- I’ve looked over them. Have you read them? Yes, I’ve looked over them. Some of the checks in here are listed on third items. Some of the checks they have notations “behind them: some of the checks here are listed on third items. Now, did any of these checks here, did you -- did they come into your possession? . . Did-they ‘come into my possession? . Yes. Did you ever have them in your hand: did you receive these checks? CHAIR: Mr. Jones, what are you trying to prove? , - JONES: I’m asking now as tojwhether or not he received any of. these chetks because the charge is that he hasn’t been able to perform his. duties, and that. his duty was to handle these checks and take them to the bank and make deposits as well as to . Sign‘and countersign checks. THE CHAIR: What date are the checks you are talking about? | our - JONES: Well, he has the lists here, which is "Charging Party 1” and “Charging Party - 2 Oa ’ ge 132 THE CHAIR: Yes. THE JONES: -- and I’m: interested in knowing © whether or not.any of these checks have come into his possession in the line -of his duties as financial secretary. He has testified that that is part of his duties, to handle the checks, and take them and make deposits with them and to countersigi checks. CHAIR: * Mr. Jones, Mr. Young is not ‘on . trial -- | JONES:. No, he’s not ontrial. - + CHAIR: are not going to sit here all night. And if you are going to continue to question the witnesses on the basis that you ques- tioned Mr.- Y , well, we’ll be here until Christmas, and let’s stick to the point and let’s get through with these witnesses. GLADNEY: Okay. Mr. Chairman, when we came here this morning you promised us a fair and impartial hearing. CHAIR: You are going to get it but now you are not being fair. GLADNEY: We are being fair. CHAIR: Wo, you are not. GLADNEY: Let me tell you something. Alton Bailey has been charced here with certain things that are -- erroneously by this witness, and Alton Bailey is not the guilty one. It’s the witness on the stand here, Mark Young, -- 147 \ 2Ss THE CHAIR: You are wrong there, Mr. Gladney. WR. COLE: He hasn’t been charged by anybody THE CHAIR: We called the witness to testify-- MR. GLADNEY: And we are entitled -to show that ~ this witness who is put on the stand against.Alton Bailey is himself the one that’s causing all of this trouble in this union, and if he is the one, then you. S should permit us -- if you are going to . ll have a fair hearing here, permit us to show ou that Mark Young is the one member of this | union who has been doing wrong and causing all the trouble. MR. CHITTENDEN: Gentlemen, lock, you are cross evamining, and you are whispering and the til secretaries can’t cet it. And lawyers, as far as this commiftee is concerned, as far es. as I’m concerned, if there’s any charges this local against Mr. Young, certainly the local can prefer charges, send them to either Mr. Massey or Mr. leason, and we’ll be down or someone ‘else will be down to hear these charges if so. But the way it is right now at this particular time Mr. Young is not on trial: we are trying to come out here and have a hearing to find out what the members have said against Mr. Bailey, if there’s any grounds for founda- tion for these charges and, if so, then they’1l be broucht back to the Interna- tional. But the way it is right now you are getting everybody on trial and this is a hearing. So up until right now every- body including the four attorneys is on trial and this is a hearing: this is not this particular type of trial that you | dis 148 agticipate and you gentlemen here are ccn- Stantly making mockery of it by coming out with the law portion of it and constantly throwing federal statutes at us. And we think this way, and if you’ve got a ques- tion we’ll allow the the utmost leeway to gw ahead and question him, but please refrain from intimidating the witness and asking ouestions that he answered no. BY MR. CHITTENDEN: Q. And, Mr. Young, if you don’t know it, just say “I don’t know,” and let it go at that. And constantly don’t try to answer all the cuestions: we don’t need your opinions... If you know it, tell the truth. If you don’t know it, say "I don’t know,” and let it cc at that, and we don’t need any added explanations. JONES: Mr. Chittenden, one of the charges ‘in the specifications and charges is that Mr. Bailey did not let Mr. Young perform his duty e+ financial secretary. Now, its my appreciation -- and I’m sure it’s the ‘appreciation of all of us here, and it’s the constitutional duty to handle the bank account, to take the money to the bank, make the deposit and to write checks. Now, all we are trying to determine here is whether or not that money came into his ES possession, and if it did came into his possession, did he take it to the bank and make -- ¢.d he deposit it. Now, all he has to do is to say yes, and if he did not make the deposit as shown on charce one, evyhibit -r2 of the charging party and evhibit % of charging party, all he has to ao is to say, “I did not make these deposits: this money did not come into my possession.” Now, on the other hand if it 149 did come into his possession: -- and he put these into evidence: we did not -- all he has to do is say that, “I did receive it and I did make these deposits.” And then on the other hand I understand that one of the duties that’s incident to being finan- cial secretary is to sign checks, and we are asking him whether or not he Signed any checks during that period. Now, from the time that Mr. Bailey became president, was installed into office as president up until this present date, because the speci- fications and charges are not leveled at Mr. Bailey just from June 23rd until now, but they are leveled at Mr. Bailey all the way back from the day of his installation-- in fact, before he was even installed -- up until now, and that’s what we are really trying -- that’s what we are really driv- ing at. Now, we want to find out whether or not he has been able to perform his duties as financial secretary inasmuch as this is one of the specifications-- one of the allegations in the Specifications and charges. - CHITTENDEN: Mr. Jones, you are constantly asking a question. If he don’t know, the records will establish itself-as the best basis for facts. If he did it, the records will prove that he did it. If he didn’t do it, then the records also-- - JONES: But the records are Slient and we won’t = didn’t say it was immaterial. I stated that the record itself would be the docu- mented proof. All that you say here is-- you are going on. hearsay, and that’s what you are trying to find out, but we don’t know any more about -- but we are saying that this -- that the records themselves, the receipts and deposit slips are the best evidence of what was done. MR. JONES: Then do you agree with me that Mr. Bailey should know what documental proof is going in the record, what document ed proof is going into the record, and you'll agree with me that Mr. Bailey is entitled to know that, sir? a MR. CHITTENDEN: We want everyone to be in knowledge of everything, but you keep ask- ing the same questions and getting the ~ same answers. Now, if it doesn’t suffice, ask The Chairman and explain to The Chair- man what you want, that it was not the answer that you expected, but if you con- stantly keep asking the man and he doesn’t understand what you are doing, you are just wasting time. So if he doesn’t ans-,_ wer the question, ask The Chairman, this is what you want and I think we can get in-your point. MR. JONES: Thank you, Sir. 153 . BY MR. JONES: 0. THE THE Mr. Young, did you receive a check from ee eee. weveneen of Balti- more Stevedoring Co., Inc., for the pay period March 23rd to the 30th, 1969, check number 2189, dated April 16th, 1969, in the amount of $19.24? CHAIR: Mr. Jones, without the proper records in front of Mr. Young he wouldn’t know -- I imagine he received a lot of checks, and you are going to specify a ‘particular check. He wouldn’t know what particular check he received and I think it’s unfair to the witness. JONES: Your Honor, he’s.contending that they are missing and that he -- | CHAIR: Understand this, he wouldn’t know exactly what checks you are talking about. You are reading off of a form there and asking him to answer a question. - JONES: He igtroduced this into evidence. CHAIR: He did not -- he didn’t introduce it: Mr. Cole introduced it. into evidence -- - JONES: The charging party introduced this - GLADNEY: Through the witness. JONES: -- through the witness; he intro- duced this into evidence. Now, he ought to be in a position to stand behind this record to show what happened to these checks as to whether or not he received them or did not receive them: that’s all that we are asking. The witness has -- THE. THE MR. 154 CHAIR: I’m sure Mr. Young _ state to you. that all the checks that he had &n his possession he deposited them, and the deposit Slips are at the local union all ‘locked up in the safe and he does not have - access to the safe. ‘ JONES: But he introduced these as -- CHAIR: I know, but he can’t prove without the -- without the copies of the deposit slip, and he doesn’t have possession of of those deposit slips. If the union had been run right and he had possession of the . deposit slips, he could tell you, but he doesn®™ have them: JONES: He.could tell whether or not he deposited it. . ‘ 2 CHAIR: He couldn’t tell you unless he had them. He know he deposited money but being specific about one particular check, you can‘t expect -- JONES: I’m not talking about one... I’m talking about -- CHAIR: But you.keep asking a specific date. . JONES: -- all of these on- these three Slips, on these three slips; I just havent one to but one. BAILEY: ‘May I make a statement here, Mr. - Chairman? THE CHAIR: No, no. When we put you on the Stand you can make a statement. - BAILEY: According to the letter I received — Vi g THE THE THE ~ MR. 155 I’m entitled to any statements and cross ‘examine the witnesses according to the letter I received from Mr. Gleason. I can’t make a statement? ~ CHAIR:. Not now. . BAILEY: Not now. CHAIR: When we put you under oath you dan ask anything you want. You’ve got counsal here representing you. - JONES: That’s all we are asking, Mr. Chairman, that he, identify on this list, checks enumerated on this. list which he received and deposited and which he did not recéive and did not deposit. CHAIR: Why don’t you rephrase your ques- tion, Mr. Jones. Ask Mr. Young the checks that he received himself did he deposit them. Don’t be specific about checks be- cause he don’t know the numbers.’ Any checks that he received you can ask him did he -- what did he do with them, did he deposit those checks. MASSEY: Mr. Chairman, just one observa- tion. We were ordered by the judge over ‘here in this court to come by here and have a layman’s trial through I...A. and do something. We had lawyers over here in his court over there that heard one side and then he made up his mind what he wanted to do and he did it; he sent it back here for somebody to try. Now, whatever the evidence is and you requested that the books be broucht, whoever has got those books Showing the receipts and disburse- ments ought to turn them in, and we’ll' look at them and anybody else who wants to Sa tine mca te 156. ae look at them may look at then. THE CHAIR: Right. MR..MASSEY: But this question about did you deposit. this -- this thing is just worse than a kangaroo court. I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. And - body is trying to introduce a lot of i there that you would cite right in a trial in a court of law. I don’t think -- it’s my opinion that they ought to excuse all lawyers that’s here today and go ahead with the thing and do the best that you can under a layman’s deal and let it go. Now, those books, I demand those books be left with*youw And whatever he’s » if he’s got any books there, then we’ll send him over there and let him leave it, too. THE CHAIR: Thank you. MR. MASSEY: All this other. -- it belongs to the International Longshoremen’s Associa- tion. \ A. _ (The witness did\not reply.) ‘ BY MR. JONES: \ Q- Now, all-the checks, Mr. Young, that came into your session since Mr. Bailey has been installed into office as president of the local until this date, have you dépos- ited them in a bank? \ : A. Mr.-Jones, all checks that came into 4 —_ at possession as secretary or treasurer were presented, I deposited them. I told you some time back, Mr. Bailey told me-- Q. Go ahead. ' — A. A. A. 157 I told you Mr. Bailey told me, “Do not deposit the check-off checks,” and I didn’t deposit then. Is that customary to not deposit all check- off checks? . But anyway, for those checks you asked me about the number of then. I’m ed to deposit all of those checks. can’t go in there and tell you which one, 99A or 86B that I ited or 76C. I am supposed to deposit all of those checks. But you did deposit them? . I say I’m supposed to it all of then. ‘There’s a lot of them I ven’t seen. I can’t tell you which particular ones. I would have tq run down the list and see _ them and better than that‘I’d have to even have to go to some of these people and request to see the checks that have passed through the bank and come back to see who Signed them on the back. Then I’d know. Did- you sign any checks for disbursements or expenditures-- from expenditures of the union? From which bank? From West Baton Rouge? And what dates? Since Mr. Bailey has been president. Yes, the Bank of West Baton Rouge, I’ve Signed some. Now, during the week that you were adminis- = trator of the union you wrote your check-- yourself an expense account check? 1S56@ &> I beg your pardon? Q. THE MR. THE Did you write yourself a check-- CHAIR: Mr. Jones. JONES: Yes, sir. CHAIR: You are getting out of order in line of questioning of Mr. Young. You asked Mr. Young if he deposited the checks: you asked him if he sicned the checks: oo you are going richt back over the sane thins. JONES: But he never answered it, Your Honor. CHAIR: He told you that he signed the . checks that he was authorized to sign and the checks that he was told not to put in the bank, he didn’t put them in there. JONES: But he’s never answered about his expenditure check during the time he was administrator of the union. CHAIR: I think the record speaks for itself. CHITTENDEN: He was under Mr. Dixon’s orders~ so what he did in that time -- CHAIR: He done what he was ordered to do. MR. CHITTENDEN: -- that doesn’t -- that’s not a problem that Mr. Bailey has to be con- fronted with. That shouldn’t be injected i wai Te al ' ee, 159 into this hearing here on that. That’s Mr. Gleason’s problem and Mr. Bailey’s here, not nobody else’s problem. Any particular -- ; JONES: He testified that his weekly erpense check was thirty-five dollars a CHITTENDEN: You asked him that question. - THE CHAIR: You asked him that.. JONES: I asked him that, and he answered-- CHITTENDEN: And he told you the same as Mr. Bailey, S208 and $35 a week for expenses JONES: That is true. And then I-asked him what was his expense account here. CHITTENDEN: And he told you $35. JONES: $35. : GLADNEY: We’re trying to identify the checks to put them in evidence. TONES: And we are trying to identify the checks now and we want to find out -- CHITTENDEN: Well; just identify them. THE CHAIR: Mr. Jones -- HEIRY: Mr. Chairman, might I just add this? Mr. Jones, we’ve started this hear- ing 11:00 o’clock, and here it is now, just about 15 minutes to 4:00. We have other witnesses to hear. I think as far as the records is concerned the chairman has asked Mr. Young to bring some records over there ees ae nn = . 160 that he had in his possession. We have also asked Mr. Bailey to bring some records that he had in his possession. And I think there is no better evidence than the records. We have the records and the records will show what was deposited in the bank. The records will show -- if we get all of the records -- what Mr Young de- posited because he says he siums the back of the check. And I think when the time comes that this committee will be able to Find ou~ one sg 4 and to know exactly what he dep-sited, at he -- as far as Signing check= to pay off bills -- when we get these records the committee itself will be able to determine just what part Mr. Young played and Mr. Bailey played, once we get these records. MR. JONES: Thank you, Mr. Henry, but Mr. Younc went on further to Say that extenu- ating circumstances might run his expense account up more than $35 a week, which is Standard -- which is s.o.p., standard operation procedure, this $35 a week. I asked the questian what would be those extenuating circumstances. He has not Stated to me what those extenuating cir- ‘ cumsti>-en were. MR. HENRY: He doesn’t have to -- MR. JONES: And I’m still asking him that question. TR: — What difference does that make to Jou SY MR. JOMCS: Q- I show you two checks for the week that i you were administrator. a 161 A. That’s right. Q. How much are they? A. One dated June 2, countersigned by Louis Harden and one dated June 5, and they are both for $35. Q. In the same week? A. Yes. Now, listen. When I was appointed financial ne I will tell you what this $35 bought. It bought two trips to New Orleans, one to Burnside, one to Geis- mar. I had to go over to the Division’ of Welfare Pension Office. I had to go and —~_ establish contact to notify all of these people, though. That’s what your $35 was for. . Q. That’s $70 in one week, is that right? A. That’s your first $35. That’s what it’s for. MR. JONES: I offer and int roduce this in evi- -— dence and ask that it be marked “Respon- dent-S and 6” respectively. A. Now, the second $35-- THE CHAIR: Wait a minute -- MR. CHITTENDEN: Mr. Chairman, just a minute - on this thing. ! BY MR. JONES: 2- When did you make those trips? Give us ° the date you made those trips. a "R. CHITTENDEN: Mr. Chairman, on this thing-- 162 THE CHAIR: Mr. Jones-- CHITTENDEN: First, number 1, Mr. Jones, we keep trying to refer and establish the fact that Mr. Young is net ontrial. If you people have anything acainst Mr. Young, we ask you to bring this thing in. JONES: We never said this witness is on trial. CHITTENDEN: Yes, but you try to put a wit- ness on trial, you’re not going to do it here. CHAIR: You’re not going to do it here, Mr. Jones. | : CHITTENDEN: Mr. Jones, you know as a law- yer never in anybody’s court, anybody’s court in the history of ny life have I ever known that you come out there and-you are trying to put something in to put hin on trial when your client is on trial were you successful. Now, he told you on this thinae-- he brought it t and told you on this thing what it ° JONES: How clean is Mr. Youno’s hands? That’s what those checks:are after. CHITTENDEN: Mr. Jones, whether his hands are clean or not, that is not the cuestich. He is not on trial. If you’ve got any- +hing on Mr. Young, you bring it to the international and it comes -before me I’ll certainly try Mr. Young just like we do anyone else, and that goes for any of them. Now, whether his hands are clean _or not, he is not'‘on trial. We-- he’s a witness: you co t him as a witness but not as you’re trying to put him on trial. This is a clever way of being an attorney. —- THE CHAIR: Wait.- I want to ask Mr. Young a question. BY THE CHAIR: Q. Mr. Young, Since June 23rd you have been _ Signing checks along with Mr. Bailey. What time did the local approve counsel for the local: waS it before June 26 or after June 187 A. ° What time did they approve counsel]? Q Yes, attorneys to represent the local. - Was it before when? ” Q- Mr. Dixon was there or after; who was the counsel for the loca] when Mr. Dixon came in, the attorney? a | Re es a _Q- What time was that? ‘A. I think Mr. Dixon came there sometime ‘around the latter part of May. Q. What time did the local employ Mr. Gladney and Mr. -Jones to represent them? A. Mr. Cole was the attorney. Q. That’s not waht I asked you. oA. Or, Cladney? Q- A. 168 What time did the local employ } Mr. Gladn to represent the local? = v I don’t know of any-- ca THE CHAIR: -Have-a-seat; I’m questioning the A. He wasn’t representing the local? witness. I don’t know when-- I don’ t remember no vote of membership where the- local — Mr. Gladney or Mr. — THE CHAIR:. Well, prior to the time Mr. Dixon came in, was Mr. Slaeney se cia ceartsint! the local? - No. [ No. Had Mr. Siadney vinsenied the local any. - other time other than the time he went into Judge E. Gordon West’s court? I think -he had secaréd an injunction for one-- some members of the local at one time. T'm not talking about the ellie of the local: I ‘= tee about the local. - No, he had never represented the local. According to your records,* -on “August 7 you ard Mr. Bailey wrote -out check number. 10531 in the amount of 53,739.80 for Mr. Joseph Atkinson Gladney; what was that for and how’ loag== : - i . ’ ie _ To the best of my knowledge. OS Se eee a 169 That was for-- I’m restrained by the. judge: I had to write it. I didn’t Say you had to write it, but what, ‘was it for? That was for that hearing down there to. .the best of my knowledge. That one-day hearing? That’ 's all I wanted to know. SY MR. JONES: J ie Ss ) /* . ou Mee Mr. Young, on July 3, 1969, did you receive cash money from the office in the amount of $200? “ete On what date? July 3, did you receipt for that? HE CHAIR: Mr. Jones-- Mr. Jones and Mr. Gladney-- R. JONES; Yes, sir. HE CHAIR: --inasmuch as-- we’ve got to save time... We-don’t want -to be repetitious in this thing. You asked the same question-- R. JONES: . No, I--. HE CHAIR: Wait just a minute. Wait just a minute. Let me say what I want to say. Mr. Gladney, the international has one attorney here and the other. side has ws, « and we are going to limit our conversation ‘ to one attorney from each side, because ae THE MR: MR. CHITTENDEN :- THE CHAIR: 170 you are only being repetitious in this | thing. Mr. Gladney asks a question and ‘you get up behind him and try to confuse the witness. Now, ‘one or the otHer. So we are going to limit. our. conversation to- ~ ‘representative or one attorney: f side. . JONES: Now, you all pick the one you want. Okay, sir. That will commence after this witness? CHAIR: JONES: this ¢ . Thank you, Sir. Not after this witness, after series of questions. . Attes this series of questions. MR. CHITTENDEN: Not after this witness. BY. MR. -JONES: Ro Ae Ae Did you receive that amount of money? o Sir? Yes, that’s my signature. And how much did you receive there, sir? It says presen "$200, and application-- Now, ‘Yes. $200, Yes, - whatever it is, $375-or. $351. ° ‘the $200 you received on July -3 for marterly dues, $200, is that right? is that right? . S1Tr. from each ” ee ; i : - 5 ig EY ELA Lb ATE de A ilps ROE BED ese Lo) Now, for applications you received. $375 on July 3? 2 aed A. ‘It was $355, but I usually sign when the girl -- we always get it all lined up. Yee ae * How tiuch did you Sign you received then? A. That’s integrity. I always sign on her -- you see, she count it when you give it-to her, but in this particular case when I got to the bank we counted it over, it was $375 and I made -- I told her about it. I made a note of it. Ui ra . ae Q. In other words, you received $575: that’s what you receipted for at the office: isn’t that right? AS - $355. Q. Butjdidn’t you receipt for $575 at the offjce? . | Wee A. $655. Q. What do these two receipts come to? _ You see what that is. : co) . How much does that come to? A. $575. Q. That’s how much- you receipted for: your - Signature is there: isn’t that your Signa- ‘ture there? bye . A. That’s what I receipted for. Q. All right. On receipt no. 6902i -- 2 172 * Yes, that’s it. ; nae ? } -- which was quarterly dues was for $200, is that .right?. - Yes, that’s right. And on receipt no. 69022 -- Yes. _©- which was application fee, was $375, right? That’s right. "And that ‘totals $575, right? It was a ‘miscount. “That! s how much you receipted for at the office, isn’t that right? That was a miscount. BY MR. HENRY: Q. How much did you deposit in the bank as far aS your records --"" A. $555. .- 3555. A. And when I came it was -- when I came ss back to -count it off I told her about it,. but -- I told her about the notation and - it’s made at the bank. BY MR. JONES: Q. The money ran short between the office ant. i Oe the bank?» A. Mr. Jones, I’ve been taking care‘of that. money for years, and in your attempt to smear mud on me I -- J brought that trea- Sury from $84.16 up to $30,000 and, Mr. Jones, if you go over the river and ques- tion my integrity, they’ve got people who will send you back because I -- I worked in that local and they paid me $60 a week and I run my car to New Orleans three. trips: I go-to New Orleans for $10, BY MR. .HENRY: [a :- Ses Young, -- MR. HENRY: I want to ask The Chairman now, are these the records that you requested | the president to bring here for this com- mittee? THE CHAIR: Right. fR. HENRY: And before the committee has seen _ the records you mean the attorney is going through the records and questioning the man about the records that this committee _hasn’t seen -- : HE CHAIR: That’s right. R. HENRY: -- to. try and put two and two together? | . | HE CHAIR: Right. R. HENRY: Gentlemen, we are just out of line. HE CHAIR: We asked him to produce the. records, give them to us and we -- MR. MR. MR. 174 . HENRY: “You asked him to bring the records to you and he’s .been back here -- we said 29 o’clock and it’s 4 o’clock and we don’t have the records yet. ; Pol > CHATR: I know we don’t. ‘ HENRY: Well, we want: the records: the — records are for our use as this committee. CHAIR: “Mr. Bailey, will you get the-- - HENRY: If he has, these attorneys here all the while they had a long time to go get the records. - | | GLADNEY: May it please The Chairman, our client, Alton Bailey,.brought the records © jn as you requested. When we put him on the stand we are going to have him explain the records and hand them:to you one at a time. CHAIR: No, no- we want the records now. The records are part and parcel of the . International Longshoremen’s Association: it’s our records and we’ve got to have them now, and any records that Mr. Bailey needs to-.explain, we’ll be glad to hand | then to him,-not him hand to.us. How about the books?’ We want the books.-- checkbooks ‘and all. BAILEY: That’s the checkbooks. JONES: Now, -- CHAIR: Wait just a minute. What about _ the daily cash books? ~ . BAILEY: I don’t have that; you: have to: -. see the financial secretary for that. . COLE: -- is outside and he has the. _ minutes. ae Se ere CHAIR: What about the recording secretan/s minutes? . BAILEY: This-is what you asked mé to bring back. CHAIR: “2 gaid the xecotds. . BAILEY: Well, I have brought -- . COLE: The recording Secretary -- . BAILEY: The recording secretary has the minutes. I’1]1 tell you; he has then. sf ys CHAIR: | That’s all right. All. you have to say is the man doesn’t have then. - JONES: Now, -- ’ CHAIR: Mr. Jones, when you were gquestion- ing Mr. Young we told you when you got _THE ie. back'to, Mr. -- revert to -- through with that series of questions we weuldn’t ask any more questions --. - JONES: Yes. . CHAIR: .-- and we’d limit it to --- - JONES: There’ are some more questions that have to be asked and you want to revert | y Le CHAIR: I didn’t -- ; JONES: ° -- Mr. Gladney so that he may ask those questions? » CHAIR: I didn’t say Mr. Gladney. I said . you and him choose between yourselves; we are going to let one attorney represent-- which one it is, -- JONES: Well, you see, what happened, we had started already. Now, I had started weg 175 ° PRS Desa ra ER We RRS a SF MeL NGAGE ALATA 176 to question and we haven’t*finished our cross examination. Now, you can turn it-- IT can turn it back.to Mr. Gladney and let him complete it or I may go on and com- plete it: either one. of. us may complete it.: Now, we’ll gladly absde'by your rules but one of us will do the SEs CREA Hs . HENRY: ‘Mr. Jones, I’ m no lawyer and I -kriow-just a little bit about procedures, but I would say this, that there were cers . tain questions that were asked Mr. Young by Mr. Cole, and I thought if you wanted to ask any questions. in opposition to'his. statement or you could prove that he e ‘use it, but it has no bearing here as far. wasn’t exactly telling the truth, something that this committee should know, I think © then-you should stick to that, but you are askina questions here that I, as a member | of this committee, haven’t heard. When you asked a question about expense, there is nothing that was asked by Mr. Cole to Mr. Young about expenses, but yet you have q _a part of the records that belongs to the loca], and you are going through there trying to ask him other questions that would not in my opinion consider cross examine. J understand you are trying to impeach the credibility of Mr. Young.- I think that’s a legal word and I shouldn’t as the case is concerned whether or not he’s got $20 or $25 for expense. We had “no knowledge of this whatsoever; this com- “mittee didn’t, and when the records are - produced, as I -understand he has produced some records and Mr. Bailey has produced some records, the committee will:take that under consideration. But now we’ve been here and it’s 4 o’clock, and.we have about 25 or. 30 or 40 people outside. I don’t know how many witnesses you intend to call; L i oe Mr. Cole did say he had at least five or. six. We’ll never get this hearing; we’ll never get the facts, and we are here to get the facts based upon the charge that was presented by a group of members of : 1830, and I hope that we can condense this’ and stick as much to the facts as possible. JONES: Mr. Henry, all we are trying to do now is deal with the bank account, checks; : that’s where we are right ‘now dealing with that, and the bank account deals with checking account, the books and whatnot.. Now, we have presented the records; we’ve presented the checks. Now, the question, now is whether or not you want me to con- tinue this cross examination or. turn it: _back to Mr. Gladney to continue it inas- much as both of us have been cross examin- ing this witness .already. Now, I.can turn: it back to Mr. Gladney and let him proceed, “Ty be glad to do that, or T may continue. on, and I'm sure Mr. Gladney will be glad . to do that. . \ - HENRY: We would prefer one of you to ques-- tion the witness as The Chairman Said; we. would like. for you all-to consult with each other rather than you asking the very same questions that Mr. Gladney has asked.: . JONES: I’m not asking -- I’m not asking-= I haven’t asked one of the same questions Mr. Gladney has asked except to the fact that,. “When did you become financial secre- tary of the union?” That was 1963, he Said. And that was the only question that! waS repetitious. And now. I want to-go --— I want to proceed forward’ or know whether Mr. Gladney should proceed forward *nas- much as both of .us have been. questioning this witness: and from now on we will - et 178. abide by the court’s ruling and only one of us will. question the next witness and the following witnesses that come forward. Now, richt now the ruling that we are ask- ing for is, should I proceed or shall I turn it back to Mr. -Gladney to proceed? I will be happy -to proceed on. CHAIR: .I’1l tell you what; wevare not ao-" ing to let but one of you-all continue. Now, whichever one of you all want . to. do° that -- JONES: Both of us are not.going to try to . ask him questions at the same time. MR. Qs > CHAIR: We are asking one of you all to continue the questioning. It, don’t make me no difference which one of you all con- tinues, only one of you. GLADNEY: Okay, Mr. Niakieam, be 11 pick it up at this stage. - BY MR. GLADNEY: Mr. Young, since January did you take part in negotiating a new contract between the union and the employers? ' With the outgoing administration, yes. With. the outgoing administration? : ‘ : . ‘ . Yes. \ Did you and any members of the outgoing administration intimidate or threat -- ; make any threats or other coercion exerted upon the membership in regard to the con- - tract,. necotiating of the contract? OC AO ie he CER, “ee . O=" to he: it - Qe “Yes, did you? — - 7 : . : - - SRS 2 . a J «te + - ” - 4 = a . ; “ 5a , — ae ° - ~ - . rs - . ° - - ‘ ; o . +179 -A. I beg your pardon? How was that? - Q.° Did ‘you.or any of the officers intimidate. or make threats or other coercion upon -the membership of -the Local 1830 in regard to the contract that wam being negotiated? — A.. I don’t know what the other officers did. - Q. What did you do? A. I did not. intimidate or coerce. Q.. Now, after you were installed February 27th of 1969, ‘did you intimidate, make threats or other coercion upon the member- .- ship in regard to the rejection or accep- tance of the contract ‘by the local member- Baipeg : - a ; A. Did I == did.I do that? . A. No, I*- didn’t intimidate anybody; I didn’t threaten anybody. Q. Did you see any of the officers intimidate, ' make threats or do anything to-coerce the . ‘Tegard to om And that was a‘fair election in regard to that contract, was it not? 7 T’m not setting myself up in judging. BY MR. HENRY: Q. ‘Mr. Young, do you recall the vote; is this the vote where these two locals, 1830 and | ' 1833, voted together? aie . "MR. COLE: ‘Yes. 4 aa Well, the first one -- BY MR. HENRY: - The one where we were talking about where they rejected? A. ‘In the first one, “yes, sir. — Q. Okay. What was the vote; do you recall the vote? | A. No, I don’t, but I think it was somewhere around -- it come .to twenty or twenty. some: thing difference in favor;. at least twenty or more was -=- Q. It was a joint meeting held between 1850. and 1833? A. Yes, sec | Q. And at that meeting approximately 20 people more voted to reiect the contract than to accept it? A. That’s right. We are trying to clarify this so that -- | “ MR. MR. MR. THE 187° don’t know what Mr. ---what the attorney is trying to get at, but regardless of who voted and how they voted, approximate- ly 20 people voted to reject the contract in a joint meeting, I think you mentioned, on the 22nd when the vote was taken: is that the meeting you are referring to? GLADNEY: I think he said the difference of -- the majority was 20, the voting majority, I believe is what he’s Saying. e HENRY: Twenty voted to reject the con- tract at that meeting. : GLADNEY: The majority was 20 over the other vote. , f , . HENRY: Well, the ma jority voted to reject it. . GLADNEY: Right. - HENRY: Now, you wanted ta know if he was ‘in thé majority. to vote to reject it? GLADNEY: Yes. He has’ already answered that cuestion. We don’t have to go any further on that, Mr. Henry. Thank you. CHAIR: Are you through with the witness? ‘Mr. Gladney, let’s make it short. We are - going to be here until Christmas. We are THE MR. trying to be as fair with you as we possibly can, -- . . GLADNEY: ‘Thank you. CHAIR: -- but you are cauSing an undue hardship on this committee. GLADNEY: We have asked. -- we have no a ites 3 188 further questions at this tame. - _ ) . HENRY: Mr. Chairman,’ I would like to put -in the records for all attorneys concerned “here that I’ve been a member of this In- ternational Executive Council for quite a few years, and that whenever we have these ~ hearingsin my opinion we’ve never had any. attorneys. . : THE CHAIR: This will be the last time, you THE CHAIR: Mr. Young, you may be excused. F. can believe that. HENRY: And we are very concerned about a small local like this that. have three attorneys supposed to be representing the union, and I know ali of these three’ > attorneys expect to be paid. It has just been pointed out that one. attorney received some $3,700. We are here not to protect Mr. Young, Mr. Bailey or anyone else. We — are here because we had charges filed and complaints filed and we are trying to get the facts, and this is the first time that we had attorneys and I want to let you know that the International record will show that very few locals have been taken under receivership, that we’ve been able to conduct our own affairs with the con- | mittee of the International or the district, | ' that we tried to work out something to a bring peace and harmony and unity within our organization because they belong to -the I.L.A. We’ve been here since 11]: o’clock: we’ve only been able to talk to one witness: we haven’t been able to talk to anyone else to get the facts. I think, Mr. Chairman, we. have heard enough from this witness and I think that he should be excused. | . . . L a 189 ) WITNESS EXCUSED AT 4 : 29 P.M. ! THE CHAIR: Again I want to say that this morn-. ing we asked Mr. Giadney and Mr.’ Jones to give us the name of their principal wit- ness: they didn’t do so. And, as Mr. Henry | said, this is the first time in history © that I’ve known attorneys to sit in on a. hearing of the committee for our executive council on charges préferred against an - individual or the local. And we've gone through this thing and some things have entered into it that I didn’t appreciate, and I think again we are going to ask Mr. Jones and Mr. Gladney to give us the names ‘ of the witnesses that they want to apps r because we are not going to sit up here all night and hash this thing over'and over ‘ again. You know who your principal wit- messes are, ‘and we’d like for you to give us their names. . , : . GLADNEY: Mr. Chairman, our principal wit- | nesses are the president, Alton Bailey-- as to what other witnesses we may-call, I’m sure we’ll call Antoine Boudreaux, but we have to reserve our. right to call our witnesses depending on who the charging , “parties put on and what their evidence may be as we still don’t know, but right now - we know we are going to call Alton. Bailey; THE . that based on what I see here, the records. .reveal to me this is a small local as Mr. Henry said, about 180 members, and all you WR. we know we are going to call Antoine | Boudreaux and Ernest: Davie. 7 CHAIR: All I'm saying, Mr. Gladney, is attorneys are doing is sucking them dry, and we don’t appreciate that. Call your next witness, Mr. Cole. ore COLE:. Would -you call Edison Jones, piease? 190 . S$ ? > THE WITNESS, EDISON JONES, AFTER HAVING FIRST ) BEEN DULY SWORN TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP HIM GOD, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:- - THE CHAIR: Now, again, as chairman of the con- mittee I am asking that both attorneys agree with the committee to try and limit their cuestions to ten minutes as near as possible. And we are not imposing it on you, but we are asking you to try.and do SO. JONES:- Mr. Chairman, I want the record to show that we are willing to cooperate and try our best to abide by the limitation of ten minutes, but I doubt seriously that we can do that in ten minutes. ‘: THE CHAIR: Mr.: Jones, all-I ask is your cooperation to try to do the best you can. JONES: And any form of limitation, re- gardless of how it is imposed, whether it is by reference, by implication, directive, or by order, we want to oppose to that because in the interest of fair play, in the interest of a fair outcome of this case, we are objecting to any form of limitation: We are not here to expedite time or to save time, t we are here for the purpose of seeing that Mr. Bailey as president of this union is accorded a fair and impartial hearing. Mr. Chairman, you promised us that this morning. We are looking forward,to you to live up to your promise and that’s all that we are asking you, to do what yqu promised us this. morning, and imposition of time in any _ form, shape or any manner whatsoever would be not in the best interest of a fair trial. ~ . i. 191 CHITTENDEN: Mr. Chairman, as we keep stating to these attorneys, that this is a hearing. We are going to restate that. And up until right now it seems that the attorneys have constantly injected nothing but legal points, innuendoes, counter talks and every personal objection they could come in to build the record up. After all, . the international states and we were told by the Honorable Gordon West to go back and do this right under the international constitution. We are back here and up until right now the committee has almost asked no ouestions. We are constantly --— ‘aS a result of these lawyers constantly adding and adding into it to where right now from 11:00 o’clock A.M. it is 20 minutes to 5:00, we’ve had one witness and we had to cut that one kind of short. Now, after all, it’s the purpose of the com- mittee to bring this thing -in and to hear these people and hear both Sides fairly- and impartially without any interference’ of the attorneys: we don’t have to allow them to come in. We certainly told Mr. Jones and Mr. Gladney’s side that we would like to have one. It’s the same deal that the Honorable Gordon West has done in his court to expedite the time. We'd certain- ly save right now, because we have other federal courts coming up in the morning. We’ve got over 50 or 60 people outside. If it is going to constantly be prolonged-- and actually it’s only being prolonged because a lot of this stuff that is added . into this record is repetitious and time consuming. We are saying to you gentle- men-- and as the chairman had-told you -- unless this thing is confined to some semblance of dignity, we are certainly going to have to ask you attorneys -to eycuse yourselves and go -- we’ll take’ a 192 this. thing: ourselves as it is under the constitution. : MR. JONES: Mr. Chittenden and Mr. Chairman, you both have implied that we -- in the best: interest of our client and exercising our duty as representative of our client, that we stand to be thrown out of.the _ door. Now, that has been said by the a and as well as by you, Mr. Chittenr-. n. I’m sure that you really don’t mean that and I know that -you don’t; I don’t feel that you really mean that. I think that that is a way of tryino to suppress our energy and our best interest in the defense of our client to represent then, ‘because your -- MR. CHITTENDEN: Mr. Jones, back to you again. You are trying to put this thing on a trial basis. Now, this is not before a federal tribunals Now, we had that over there. Certainly you did not have unlimited voice on the floor in the Honorable Gordon West’s court and you had Mr. Gladney there. Cer- | _ tainly we want to hear you all, but the case -- you have constantly taken over this thing. It’s not a case of where this committee is in charge of anything, it’s you lawyers here that ‘Spave constantly come in here and taken over this thing. And believe me gentlemen, while I’m saying I’m not going to do it, I’m going to adhere to Mr. Hopkins who is the chairman, but if I was the chairman you wouldn’t do it. You know our. lawyers, Mr. Cole and Mr. Miller, would not usurp the dignity of us in the way you all are doing it if I was the chairman. I’m certainly going alonc with the chairman, Mr. Hopkins, on it, I think in all fairness to us and/in l | fairness to both sides of these\people, we Fs) 193° are never going to get the truth of the story if you keep asking things, because the questions that we want to know are not the questions that you want to know. You want to get into the record what is good for the federal court where you can win your case, and I appreciate that. I am intelligent enough to understand tHat on both sides, but that is not the truth of this case. What you are asking and what answers you are getting is not the truth, and we’ve got to get at the truth, and what happened to protect Mr. Bailey and the local and to protect his side is what we are looking for, not what I can get before the Honorable court and this is what you all are doing. And you all are building up a record -- you wouldn’t ask one-tenth of these questions if we had no court reporters and were taking no notes: you wouldn’t ask any of these questions. Of course, and I respect your ability and certainly your integrity and everything ‘and i’m not casting-any reflection on any of you gentlemen there because I respect you highly, but I do think that you all are taking over this hearing and putting everything in it that’s legal and nothing that we can ask of these witnesses of what we'd like to know as laymen as interna- tional represéntatives. Up to right now we haven’t-found out anything from these people that the international agreed to rule on. - JONES: All we are doing -- - HENRY: Mr. Chairman, with your permission I would like te ask Mr. Jones a question. Mr. Jones, you said you wanted to protect your client and you don’t wish to do it with any limitation whether it’s ten 194 minutes or otherwise. For the record, who is your client you are referring to? JONES: We are talking about charges --— . HENRY: Who is your client, Mr. Jones? - JONES: . Mr. Bailey and the union. HENRY: Who is your client -- » COLB: May it please the committee, -- CHAIR: Mr. Cole. . COLE: -- may I-say that this witness 1§ the recording secretary and was asked to bring the minutes of this -- | A. ‘Right. | MR. JONES: Have you finished? MR. HENRY: He’s called his witness. MR. JONES: I was finishing: I was trying to -- DIRECT EXAMINATION as . BY WR. COLE: re O. Mr. Jones, Mra Edison Jones, you are the recording secretary. is this the minute ‘book of this Nets ated Yes. MR. COLE: I refer the committee to the minutes of this organization which is signed by Mr. Bailey and signed by Mr. Jones on the 7th day of April, 1969, most particularly to this vortion at the lower part of the pace. 195 Perhaps it will clear up something in the committee’s mind. (THE COMMITTEE READ SAME. ) MR. JONES: We would like to know what that record says. MR. HENRY: It will be in the transcript. Mr. Cole, do you have any objection to read- _ ing that section of the minutes? ° MR. COLE: I have none, sir. MR. HENRY: Will you please read it for the record so these other attorneys -- “WR. COLE: Or better yet, the recording secre- tary --" THE CHAIR: Let the recording secretary read it. . - COLE: Let him read it. MR THE CHAIR: Let him read it for the record. — Read it out loud, Brother Jones, so the lady can understand it. A. ILA Local 1830, April 7, 1969, Port Allen, | Louisiana. The meeting was called to. order by. the president. The president asked Brother Earl McQuillon to lead the brothers in prayer. Brother McQuillon responded. Next the president asked for the minutes of the last regular meetina. The minutes-was read by the secretary. It was moved by Charley Lamark and seconded by Ernest Davis that the minutes be re- ceived. The motion was carried. Then the president asked for the minutes of the pre- ‘ vious board meeting. The minutes was read 196 that was held March 3, 1969. It was moved by J. Harvey Netter and seconded by Louis Harden that these minutes be tdken up item by item. This motion was carried. The first item was that every brother be given a floral whenever he deceased. It was moved by Charley Lamark and seconded by J. Harvey Netter that. the issue be received -- be carried out. The motion was carried. The next order of business was that of . hiring Brother Johnnie Jones as the organi- } gation attorney. The issue was discussed thoroughly among the brothers. — It was moved by J. Harvey Netter and seconded by Louis Harden that the issue be tabled until a later date. The president said that the motion was before the house and he wanted a standing vote on the issue. He asked +he brothers to stand that was for hiring Mr. Johnnie Jones. There were 11 for and 14 against. Next the secretary read the minutes of the special meeting that was held March 26, 1969. It was moved by Charley: Lamark and seconded by L. Smith that the minutes be received. The motion was carried. Next the president asked for. the board minutes of the meeting that was held April 7, 1969. It was moved by Joe. -Burley and seconded by Louis Harden that the minutes be taken up-item‘by item. The first item was a meetingof the NAACP. It was moved by Louis Harden and seconded by J. Johnson that this item be accepted. Motion carried. The next item was if a brother was injured or sick he should be exempted from paying his dues as long as he is sick providing he turn his button in. It was moved by L. Smith and seconded by L. Williams that this, be carried out. This motion was carried. The rext item was that of Brother Henry Hill. This issue | ° 197 was. discussed thoroughly among the brothers and then it was moved by L. Harden and seconded by J. Johnson that Brother Wills will pay the sum of $500 if he wishes to become a member of Local 1830 again. This motion was carried. The president then spoke about the contract. He said that our treasure was in bad shape and he ‘ thought that we should sign the contract in order to get our money from the companies. — It was moved by Earl McQuillon and seconded by L. C. Erwin that the president would sign the contract. There were 12 brothers stood. There were 5 opposed. Next the president spoke about the AFL-CIO conven- tion that he attended in New Orleans. He. gave the brothers some of the things that took place at the convention. His speech was very long so it was moved by Antoine Boudreaux. and seconded by L. C. Erwin that the report be dictated and if a brother wanted to know about the convention he would pick up a copy at the hall. The motion was carried. It was moved by Earl McQuillon and seconded by Le Sfhith that the meeting stand adjourned. Alton Bailey, president: Edison Jones, recording secre- tary. . COLE: May I now ask questions of the witness, please? MR. GLADNEY: Yes. With regard to the minutes he just read, we object to them as being immaterial and irrelevant and of no bene- fit to this hearing. THE CHAIR: We think it is. I overrule your objection. oa BY MR. COLE: Ae 198 Mr. Jones, were you elected recording - ‘secretary in the January elections? I was. You were installed on the 27th. of February with the other officers? No, I wasn’t with the other officers. I was installed-- because I wasn’t at the installation, but I was installed -- But you were duly installed? That’s correct. Who installed you? . The president installed me.. Since that time it has been your duty to take the minutes of all meetings of this organization? ; That’s right. Have you done this to the best of your ability? I have. Were you present at a meeting of the . union.on June 16, 1969? ‘I was. Did you take the minutes of that meeting? No, I didn’t. Why not? A. A. 199 Because they had another Secretary present. Who had another secretary? . The president. Were you present in the hall? .I was. Do you have the minutes, the recording secretary’s minutes of the meetings of this organization with you today? The one that was held that night? No, I’m talking about the ones that have been taken in meetings of -- I have. - Have you missed a meeting? -Not that I know of. Are there any minutes in the minute book | put there by any secretary of the meeting of June 16, 1969? : No, it isn’t. Was a resolution brought before the house on the night: of June 16th to cut the | joining fee from $500 to $250? It was. Who brought it? 200 - Antoine R. hiddinnina did. Was a vote taken on it? A vote was taken. ° Did it carry? " It carried. Was any objection raised by any member present? a 3 , Yes. What was the objection?. Well, some of the members say he couldn’t ~do it-because it was only brought up that night and a resolution couldn’t be brought up one night and passed the same night. Was there any response from the Chair to that? | | No, sir, I didn’t hear one. Are you aware of a special meeting that was petitioned by the membership of the local for the 17th day of March, 1969, in the form of a petition? ji Yes. What was the disposition of that petition? Well, Antoine Boudreaux read off the peti- tion that the joiner’s fee would be cut. No, I’m not talking about that one. I’m talking about in March: the 17th day of | March was there a special meeting petitio® 201 a for? A. Oh, it ‘was. Q. Did that matter come to your attention as the recording secretary? | , A. . That’s right. Q. How did you get it?. A. There was a man Signed it and gave it to me. I presented it to the president and he told me to put it on the bulletin board. | . Q. Did you do that? — A. I did that. Q. Was that meeting held? A. No, it wasn’t. MR - JONES: Mr. Chairman,’ let me object’ to that because -- ) THE CHAIR: - Now, Mr. Jones, again I’m going to have to call your attention that one attorney -- and you: agreed that Mr. Gladney would -- MR. JONES: I’m not asking a question: I’m THE CHAIR: Well, you have -- MR. JONES: I have a right to object. . _THE CHAIR: -- Mr. Chittenden has stated to you the objection in the -- - BY MR. COLE: Q. A. 202 jJONES: I’m objecting: I’m not asking a question. GLADNEY: Mr. Chairman, we object to any evidence going in with regard to 4 special meeting when the evidence doesn’t show that they had a regular meeting that same night . the special meeting was called, and Judge West held in his hearing that it was. proper to hold only one meeting, the regu- lar meeting which incorporated the special meeting at that time, and all this testi- mony about a special meeting when there was a regular meeting that took up the subject of the special meetin that was mentioned in the call was taken up at the requiar meeting, and it’s all moot. And we object to it. CHAIR: I’ve tried to, Mr. Gladney, on similar occasions, oh, prior to June 2%rd -- I’ve been telling you all day that those cuestions were moot which you kept insisting ought to be going in the record, so 1’1l have to overrule your objection. COLE: I would call the trial committee's attention to the copy of the order grant- ing the preliminary injunction which was the finding of the court in the case that Mr. Gladney is talking about and I don’t find anything in there that says anything like what Mr. Gladney says the judge held. I would offer, produce and file it in evidence in this matter. Mark it “Com- plaining Witness No. $s.” Was the special meeting held? No, it was not. A. Q. 203 Where did the men -- where were the men at seven o’clock on the 17th day of March, 1969, who were the members of Local 1830? They were standing on. the outside in the lobby. Isn’t it so that they were locked out of 0 ot ees and were standing outside in the rain They couldn’t come into the hall. How long did this situation go-on? Until 10 minutes after eight when we ad- ° journed the board meetinc. As recording secretary of Local 1830 had occasion to of your own aa ow of any attempt to bargain collective- ly vith the Baton Rouge management after February 22, 1969? - No, I don’t. That’s all the questions I have. BY THE CHAIR: hy «* Q. A. Mr. Jones, I want to ask you something as recording secretary of the local. Since Wr. _— has been installed as president of Local 1830, how many neubers have been taken into the local? Only two. How many? Two. 0, A. wR. Only two? xe » -_ 204 Only two have been made as I know of. JONES: Let me ask a question. — MR. CHITTENDEN: You are not asking questions, BY THE CHAIR: 0. How many men have made application to the A. Q.° A. Q. local that you know of? I couldn’t recall. -It was quite a few. You don’t know? No, I don’t know how many of them. It was quite a few. If men had made application to the local, wouldn’t it be read off in the minutes; wouldn’t it be read off in the minutes that X number of men made application to the local? I read off an epplicatica-- I mean, . some applications for men I think that was supposed to be made the next meeting; it was about 15 of then. Let me ask you this. Who approved the application for new menbers? It must have been the application commit™ Who is the application committee? Johnnie Jackson is one. I can’t remeber who the others are. Mr. Jones, I want to show you somethinc.- A. oh 205 } I want you to come up and take a look at it and see if all these fellows are mem- bers of the Local 1830. If they are not, ~ mark the ones that are not members. (The witness so did.) They are all members? — They’re all members. Approximately how many members does Local 1830 have, Mr. Jones? About 183, something like that. 183? Something like that. And you don’t know just how many applica- tions have been received in the last -- Since February? No, I don’t. Well, then, are there any reoquirements for an individual who makes application with ‘the local to put up any of the initiation fee when he makes the application? l think he has to put down $125 down. And you don’t know who receives that money; if a whole bunch of them puts in an appli- cation, you don’t know who receives the . money? ; No, I don’t kriow who receives the money. That’s all I have. MR. HENRY: Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask BY MR. HENRY:. Q. minutes after eight and it was raining and ; No, they came and they stayed out until te | 206 Mr. Jones a cuestion.. You referred to a special meeting that was called and it wasn’t held because the men stayed outside until approximately ten then they went home; is that what you said? board meeting was dismissed about, ten minutes after eight. So a special meeting was called for the membership but they had a board meeting at. the present time? At the present time. They did not-- they were not admitted intc the union hall, but when the. board meetinc adjourned, they left, too?. No, they all came in. When the board meet: ina adjourned, they all came in. And did you have a special meeting then? No, they didn’t have no-special meeting. You are the elected recording secretary? Yes, sir. When a special meeting is called -- and I’m not familiar with your constitution, but do it say that all members should be. notified whenever a special meeting is called: do you -- I don’t want to mislead you or think I’m leading you: I’m asking - 207 you do your constitution say that the men shall be notified whenever a special meeting is called? Yes. .- Whose job it is to notify them; do the recording secretary notify them according to your constitutim? (The witness did not reply.) You post a notice -- That’s right, I do. -- they tell me in your constitution you post a notice. Who posts the notice? I post the notice. Did you post a notice for this meeting? I did. Thank you. THE CHAIR: Mr. Gladney, do you want to ques-. tion the witness? -BY MR. GLADNEY: Q. Mr. Jones, on this -- THE CHAIR: Wait just a minute, let him -- MR. GLADNEY: Excuse me. MR. CHITTENDEN: May I ask one question? MR. GLADNEY: Excuse me. ) rt i Oe ee 208 BY MR. CHITTENDEN: Q- ‘I sit down in a seat with the rest of the On this meeting that you were’ not the secretary, recording secretary, who took those particular minutes? ee Antoine Boudreaux. Antoine Boudreaux. Now may I ask this: — was you at that meeting? I was. * You was at that meeting? I was. What was the reason, since you are duly elected recording secretary, why you didn’t take those minutes? - I came in the building when they were sing ing and Arfpine Boudreaux was on the stand with the president and A. C. Johnson. And since he was up there taking the minutes, men. Who appointed him to take those minutes? Well, undoubtedly it had to be the presi- . dent. I don’t know. The president. Mr. Boudreaux is a vice president: was he -- Mr. Boudreaux elected to any particular office-- in this parti- cular case from what I understand, Mr. — had also ran for president and ost. That’s right. “209 Q. And why was Mr. Antoine Boudreaux up on _ the dais taking minutes of your particular . job when you was duly elected for it? A. I don’t know. He was up there when I got there. — ; : Q. And you don’t know who told ,jhim to get up there? : A. No, I don’t know who told him. BY MR. HENRY: ; Q. Did Mr. Boudreaux turn those minutes over to you at this meeting so that you, who being the elected recording secretary, could let it become a part of your records; did he do that?_ A. That night he gave them to the president. I didn’t see them until the next meeting. . At the next meeting we held, I read the minutes. I didn’t read the resolution: I only read the minutes what he had wrote. Q.. No further questions. BY MR. COLE: Q. Are they na part of your records? A. No, I didn’t even enter them into my book. Q. Where are they? A. I don’t know. NR. GLADNEY: The president has a copy. He has the minutes that were recorded -- the President had from Mr. Boudreaux. 210 THE CHAIR: We have no further questions if you want to -- MR. GLADNEY: Yes, sir. Thank you. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. GLADNEY: Q. Mr. Jones, this night when the board met 10 minutes after eight and the men were in the rain, did the men come in and they actually had a meeting of the union? That’s right, they came in. Did they have a full meeting? They had a meeting. The president said that was supposed to be a special meeting but since it was late, he said, "You all know what we are here for; now let’s talk about the strike.” O.K. Now, let me ask you*What was the svecial meeting called. for, what purpose? To go back to work, to try to go back to. work. Whether they would go back to work or not,’ That’s right. | -- that was the special meeting? That’s right. Now, at the meeting that was held begin= ~ ning at 10 minutes after eight, they had a full membership meeting of everybody present ? | 211 That ’s right. . Was this question taken up at this meeting as to whether they would go back to work? That’s right. It was taken up? It was taken up. Was it thoroughly discussed; did every- body have a chance to discuss it? It was thoroughly discussed and then they voted on it. And was this night that they had this meet- ing; which also had called a special meet- ing for the same night, was that same nicht that they were to have a regular meeting? That’s right. So somebody had signed a petition tp call a svecial meeting to be held the same nicht as the regular meeting, had they not? That’s right. And at the same time, had they not? That’s right. And isn’t it usual in every meeting, before every meetinc, that the executive board meets just before the regular meeting of membership? - That’s right. And that’s what took place that nicht so 212 a 4 far as the meeting of the board and meet- ing of the membership; it was done as usual on all meeting nights? That's right. Now, on the arplication committee, since March of ’69 aren’t these names, which I will read, the members of the application committee: Louis Smothers, is he a member? A. I think he is. Q. And Dorsey Ferguson, is he a member? A. He’s an application member. , Q. O.K. "BY MR. HENRY: oO... Is he a member or an application. member? He’s a member. He has paid his money, has been sworn in, . ‘and a full-fledged member? That’s right, he’s a’member. Well, that’s different from an application member. “ev BY MR. GLADNEY: Q. A. , ; f ‘ Yes. Then the question-is, is he also 4 member of the application committee? I think he is. THE CHAIR: Wait, just let me ask him one. question, Mr. Gladney. o 213. WR. GLADNEY: All right. BY THE CHAIR: Q. When did [Text truncated at 120,000 characters. The full text is on the page linked above.] --- Source: Frix Law Library, https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40385606_0676%3A1. Public record. Not legal advice.