# Appendix — NLRB v. Catholic Bishop of Chicago > Briefs, arguments, decisions, and more. URL: https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40385005_0845%3A02 ## Record - **Collection:** Supreme Court brief - **Document type:** Appendix - **Published:** January 1, 1979 - **Citation:** 440 U.S. 490 ## Text Supreme Court, U.S FILED APPENDIX | MAY 10 1978 “MICHAEL RODAK, JR., CLERK Iu the Supreme Court of the United States OCTOBER TERM, 1977 No. 77-752 NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD, Petitioner —V.— THE CATHOLIC BISHOP OF CHICAGO, a corporation sole, and DIOCESE OF FORT WAYNE-SOUTH BEND, INC., ET AL. ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT LL A NS A PETITION FOR CERTIORARI FILED NOVEMBER 25, 1977 CERTIORARI GRANTED FEBRUARY 21, 1978 Iu the Supreme Court of the Wuited States OCTOBER TERM, 1977 No. 77-752 NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD, . Petitioner —_—Vi.— THE CATHOLIC BISHOP OF CHICAGO, a corporation sole, and DIOCESE OF FORT WAYNE-SOUTH BEND, INC., ET AL. ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OCF APPEALS FOR THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT INDEX Page Relevant docket entries in Case Nos. 13-RC-13402 and 25-RC- RSE TPR IN oP Lee ies TERE AI NN eo Se oO 1 Petition for Certification of Representatives in Case No. I oo Seana . ees ~ Supplemental Decision and Certification of mceaaemmennid in Se Dn et aiesenneneenenanks ioe 9 Petition for certification of eeicminaseveiied in Case No. ET RETIRE ets EE Be SOND UO EPS ONE : 12 Certification of Representatives in Case No. 25-RC- 5984... 13 Excerpts from Transcript of Proceedings of hearing before Hearing Officer Katherine Gerstenberger in Case No. 13- | A LTS FAL Aa EN eae cae 15 Witnesses: Monsignor Harry C. Koenig 7 Direct Examination ...........................0.00..... 17 Crozs Examination ......... SF Oe Ree I oF 32 Pe ii INDEX INDEX iii Page Reverend John R. Keating Page Direct Examination -.......... 000+ : 34 Excerpts from Transcript of Proceeding of hearing before Monsignor Francis A. Bracken Hearing Officer Stanley J. Durnell in Case No. 25-RC-5984.. 158 Direct Examination ........................ neensennsaanpaiine 50 Witnesses : Cross Examination ........ EERO AT ORR 67 Father James Seculoff Redirect Examination ........ renter anne ean 73 Direct Examination ..................... ETE TEEN 159 Recross Examination ........................ 76 Cross Examination ............ lecicbibhatnbteblensinaduibtiaadt . 162 Monsignor John P. O’Donnell Redirect Examination ....... ineuennet pxienmiasatl .....166, 170 ee eR Co eee” | ae IN i cdiatuateanennials bees 171 Cross Examination «0.0.0... see vows 88 The following sections of Joint Exhibit No. 1 introduced in Reverend Joba F. Fahey the above-mentioned hearing: Direct Examination ............ ran 100 IIE Uh koidbidcninsniirntiinanviaeciisndamnenaiinomtinieniinannniaane hana 176 Cross Examination ....... a ee 108 Section 2000 ................. isnidilcaeiiianigansidnaiieddadeaiann eeulbaseen ean 176 Father John F. Fahey | STE aig a Direct Examination ..... sdaatueneeenaieassnsenesaeiennanancs 112 I a 178 Monsignor O’Donneil Section 2010(a) ......... iiesianiainiedaalaeaiaiiiiiaiatat saadaiemnidta dia ... 185 Direct Examination -......0..0.0.00.00- ccc 4 ERD ON IRON Moca 185 Jacob Wych Sa TO ee 186 Direct Examination ............ i a ta ac 114 I i 186 Father John Fahey I nema LS te 187 Direct Examination ............... ” Sisihteiesbate 116 7 ae eee D a STC 188 James Ochs oo Section 3414 0.00 188 Direct Examination ................. rind _ eR a VTE Oe OU Lia Ok Ran a ea Cecil Gorey ree dameanienieanaans caskautanadaiabaaiiie 189 Dicect Busioction sis thon 119 RI I nrticscnsenensscrensiicomninsinveninsacianensnees idipnadhishbceiahs 190 Turther Direct Examination... 121 LT eT PEEP ES SOE PRD — The following exhibits introduced at the above mentioned napenenipooepamameemmeemenmaeenene: neers _ = 7 hearing: RN SUTIN sssssccsncehississinsnsiscisdcpicimncnsielecniuidiniiioneiaadadgiaibcmein 195 BE ee 124 er ne a es ena Ee 196 Employer’s Exhibit Ne 17 ....... a el ae 128 I a 196 bemmplerraw’s TemBeMit Whe. BB nena nncccecceccccscnccccesscsenensesncenosnes 131 ee cacaiiaaiiantadiaa a ene ae _ 197 Beamplower’s TemteTGt Whe. BB nnn. anne nnscccnnccs snc nnnscennseneees 133 Section 6625 ............................ oe eiilaaeiea diet e a 197 Employer’s Exhibit No. 41. ................22....-.:c--ecccseeceee0ee ek 135 i eae eT aS Ty 198 Mbcmmplcmew’s TemteTie Whe GB nnn nnn nnn nnn ee sas 137 IE TRIIEEE isssinisccninisitentessasatibaahanconinintendgindanbighiteecas Gaidineedi 199 Employer’s Exhibit No. 69 .................. se te paar 138 Section 5670 0000000. sscniinaiidailanmiadidiadigaaidemmiaaiataeee ra) Ee 200 Petitioner’s (Quigley Education Association) No. 2 ........ 143 Complaint and Notice of Hearing in Case No. 13-CA-14944... 201 Amendment to Complaint in Case No. 13-CA-14944 209 aa ie, ae iv INDEX Answer to Complaint in Case No. 13-CA-14944 Amendment to Answer in Case No. 13-CA-14944...00 Complaint and Notice of Hearing in Case No. 25-CA-7622 Answer to Complaint in Case No. 25-CA-7622 .......... sesamiae Amendment to Answer in Case No. 25-CA-7622............. Order of the Supreme Court granting certiorari (The decisions of the Board and the decision and judg- ment of the Court of Appeals were printed in the petition for a writ of certiorari and thus need not be reprinted.) CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF RELEVANT DOCKET ENTRIES Case No.: 13-CA-14944 IN THE MATTER OF: THE CATHOLIC BISHOP OF CHICAGO, A Corporation Sole 13-RC-13402 DATE | PROCEEDINGS 6.12.74 Petition filed 8.21.74 Board’s Ruling on Administrative Appeal, dated 8.29.74 Notice of Representation Hearing, dated 10. 2.74 Acting Regional Director’s O.der, dated 11. 4.74 First Amended Petition filed 11. 7.74 Order Postponing Hearing Indefinitely, dated 1.28.75 Order Rescheduling Hearing, dated 2.25.75 Hearing opened 2.25.75 Petitioner’s request for special permission to appeal from Hearing Officer’s ruling granting Charging Party’s motion for sequestration of witnesses, dated 2.26.75 Regional Director’s Ruling on Appeal, dated 4.23.75 Hearing closed (1) 2 ~ PROCEEDINGS Regional Director’s Order Transferring Repre- sentation Case to the National Labor Relations Board, dated Charging Party’s Brief, dated Charging Party’s Motion to Correct Record, dated Petitioner’s Brief, dated Petitioner’s Motion to Grant Oral Argument, dated Board’s Order Granting Motion to Correct Record, dated Board’s Decision and Direction of Election, dated Tally of Ballots, issued Certification on Conduct of Election for Quig- ley North, dated Certification on Conduct of Election for Quig- ley South, dated Petitioner’s Objections to the conduct of the election, dated Charging Party’s letter in response to the Peti- tioner’s Objections to conduct of election, dated Regional Director’s Supplemental Decision and Certification of Representative, dated 13-CA-14944 Charge filed Complaint and Notice of Hearing, dated Petitioner’s Answer, received 3 snes DATE PROCEEDINGS 1. 6.76 1. 8.76 1.14.76 1.16.76 1.16.76 1.23.76 1.26.76 1.29.76 2. 9.76 2.20.76 2.26.76 3.11.76 Amendment to Complaint, dated Charging Party’s Response to Answer and Af- firmative Defenses, and Motion to Transfer Case to the Board and to Enter Summary Judgment, dated General Counsel’s Response to Charging Party’s Motion to Transfer Case to the Board and to Enter Summary J udgment, dated Petitioner’s Amendment to Answer, received Petitioner’s response to Charging Party’s mo- tion to transfer case to the Board and enter summary judgment, dated Charging Party’s Amended Response to An- swer and Affirmative Defenses, and Motion to Transfer Case to the Board and to Enter Sum- mary Judgment, dated Petitioner’s letter correcting an error contained in its previously filed Amendment to Answer, dated Regional Director’s letter advising that he takes no position with respect to charging party’s motion for summary judgment, and that he in- tends to file a motion to transfer the case to the Board and to enter summary judgment on behalf of the General Counsel, dated General Counsel’s Motion to Transfer Proceed- ings to the Board and Motion for Summary Judgment, dated Order Postponing Hearing Indefinitely, dated Board’s Order Transferring Proceeding to the Board and Notice to Show Cause, dated Petitioner’s Motion for Ora] Argument, dated 4 PROCEEDINGS 3.11.76 3.17.76 3.22.76 6.18.76 8. 3.77 8. 3.77 2.21.78 Petitioner’s Response in Opposition to Motions for Summary Judgment Made By General Counsel and Charging Party and Motion to Dismiss Complaint, dated Petitioner’s Memorandum in Support of Re- sponse in Opposition to Motions for Summary Judgment made by General Counsel and Charg- yd ead and Motion to Dismiss Complaint, a Charging Party’s opposition to Petitioner’s Mo- tion for Oral Argument, dated General Counsel’s Response and Opposition to Petitioner’s Motion to Dismiss Complaint and Motion for Oral Argument, dated Decision and Order issued by the National . Labor Relations Board, granting inter alia the General Counsel’s Motion for Summary Judg- ment Decision uf the Court of Appeals Judgment of the Court of Appeals Order of Supreme Court granting certiorari 5 CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF RELEVANT DOCKET ENTRIES Case No.: 25-CA-7622 IN THE MATTER OF: DIOCESE OF FoRT WAYNE-SOUTH BEND, INC. 25-RC-5984 DATE PROCEEDINGS 6. 4.75 Petition filed 6.18.75 Notice of Representation Hearing, dated 6.24.75 Hearing opened 6.24.75 Hearing closed 7.11.75 Petitioner’s Brief, dated 7.17.75 Acting Regional Director’s Decision and Direc- tion of Election, dated 7.28.75 Petitioner’s Exceptions to Trial Examiner’s Decision, received 7.28.75 Petitioner’s Request for Oral Argument, re- ceived 8. 5.75 Petitioner’s Addenda to Petitioner’s Request for Review of Exceptions to Trial Examiner’s Decision, received 9. 2.75 Board’s teletype denying Petitioner’s request for review of decision and direction of election and denying request for oral argument, dated 9. 4.75 Notice of Election 9. 4.75 Tally of Ballots issued 10.22.75 12.23.75 1.14.76 1.22.76 2. 9.76 2.27.76 3.15.76 6 _ PROCEEDINGS Certification on Conduct of Election, dated Regional Director’s Certification of Representa- tive, dated Petitioner’s Motion for Reconsideration and for Reopening of the Record and to Adduce Addi- tional Evidence, received Board’s teletype denying Petitioner’s motion for reconsideration and for reopening of the record, dated 25-CA-7622 Charge filed Complaint and Notice of Hearing, dated Petitioner’s Answer to Complaint Charging Un- fair Labor Practice, dated Petitioner’s Amendment to Answer, dated General Counsel’s Motion to Strike Portions of the Petitioner’s Answer and Motion for Sum- mary Judgment, dated Board’s Order Transferring Proceeding to the Board and Notice to Show Cause, dated Petitioner’s Motion for Oral Argument, dated Petitioner’s Response to Motion to Strike and Response in Opposition to Motions for Sum- mary Judgment Made by General Counsel and Charging Party and Motion to Dismiss Com- plaint, dated 7 PROCEEDINGS 6.18.76 Decision and Order issued by the National 8. 3.77 8. 3.77 12.21.78 Labor Relations Board, granting inter alia the General Counsel’s Motion for Summary Judg- ment Decision of the Court of Appeals Judgment of the Court of Appeals Order of the Supreme Court granting certio- rari DOCKETED Form NLRB-+s02 UNITED STATES OF AMEIICA \, Form Approved §E8» Fanphoves 9 None i | I declare that Ih d ¢ that ave read the abuve petuion and that the statements there are true to the best of my knowledge and bell Quigley £ducation Association. gn affiliate of Illinois Education Association an > ap Hp (Petutoner and afflsaten. of any! te ae lc ll, Uniserv Director/Legal aise ae or perce flag premee | ' Ia 4 — ings Address ry by Summit Avenue Oak “ pe ..Brook Teprece Park: 111, Zdt4 95-3250 (Sereet and auteber. csty State. aad FIP Cede) Le'epaoee ee whee) _2]] East Chicago Avenue, Chicago, Illinois— 6061] _ - 4 IDENTIFY PRINCIPAL PROOUCT OF SERVICE 4a. TYPE OF ESTABLISHMENT (Factory ree wholnaler a Ga. MUMBER OF EMPLOYEES iw UNIT 4+ ~~ 5 5 Unu lavolvwed sila Le peistven devrmbe PRI \) bergpererese wn aad ates dewriptron of proposed clarihiatwon Included All full-time lay teachers employed in Quigley South! ,,,,,,, 41 High School and Quigley North High School | PROPOSED (BY UC/ AC) T Excluded 6b. % tes PETTION 30% Of mORE OF All supervisors as defined in the Act KXves [] ~o * Ne apple able ‘= aM UC. and AC (Uf pow have checked ben BC mm 1 abere. chert and complee EITHER wom %a or “6. wheckerer m1 appluatic) WALLFULLY FALSE STATEMENT On THIS PETITION Cam BE PUNISHED BY Fie D imaPRiSc int WS COO’ WHE 18. $4CTIOW 100! EXHIBIT 2 @o e73-779 9 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BEFORE THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD THIRTEENTH REGION Case No. 13-RC-13402 Board Directed THE CATHOLIC BISHOP OF CHICAGO, A CORPORATION SOLE, EMPLOYER and QUIGLEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, AN AFFILIATE OF ILLINOIS EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, PETITIONER SUPPLEMENTAL DECISION AND CERTIFICATE OF REPRESENTATIVE Pursuant to a Decision and Direction of Election issued by the National Labor Relations Board on September 16, 1975,’ an election by secret ballot was conducted on October 17, 1975, under the supervision and direction of the Regional Director of Region 13, among the em- ployees of the Employer, in the unit found appropriate for the purposes of collective bargaining. The Tally of Ballots which was served upon the parties immedi- ately following the election showed the following results: Approximate number of eligible voters __ 47 RANCHI cI Sea ee =a 0 Votes cast for Petitioner ss sits 31 Votes cast against participating labor SII lntiniicasoticidbetsneisie. oes: ae Valid votes counted... ti(‘CsS .... 38 Challenged ballots 0. 1 Valid votes counted plus challenged ballots —__— 39 A majority of valid votes counted plus challenged ballots has been cast for Petitioner. On October 23, 1975, timely objections to conduct affecting the results of the election were filed by the * 220 NLRB No. 68. EE 10 Employer, a copy thereof duly served upon the Petitioner. The objections are attached hereto as Exhibit 1. Pursuant to Section 102.69 of the National Labor Relations Board’s Rules and Regulations, Series 8, as amended, the undersigned after reasonable notice to all parties to present relevant evidence, hereby issues this Supplemental! Decision. The Employer’s objections do not go to the conduct affecting the results of the election nor to the manner in which the election itself was conducted.? It is well established that the Board will not consider objections to an election which raise questions not involving the conduct of the election but are tantamount to a motion for reconsideration of the Board’s decision and Direction of Election.® Therefore, the undersigned concludes that the objec- tions are without merit and they are hereby overruled.‘ Having overruled the Employer’s objections, pursuant to authority vested in the undersigned by the National Labor Relations Board, I hereby issue the following: CERTIFICATION OF REPRESENTATIVE IT IS HEREBY CERTIFIED that a majority of the valid ballots has been cast for Quigley Education As- sociation, an affiliate of Illinois Education Association and that, pursuant to Section 9(a) of the National Labor Relations Act, as amended, the said labor organi- zation is the exclusive representative of all the em- ployees in the unit set forth in respect to rates of pay, *NLRB Field Manual 11390, NLRB Rules and Regulations 162.69 (a). * Morenci Corp., 100 NLRB 1114; William R. Whittaker Co., Ltd., 94 NLRB 1151. * Under the provisions of Section 102.69 of the Board’s Rules and Regulations, a request for review of this supplemental decision may be filed with the Board in Washington, D.C. This request must be received by the Board in Washington by November 17, 1975. a 11 wages, hours of employment, or other conditions of em- ployment. UNIT: All full-time and regular part-time lay teachers in- cluding physical education teachers employed by the Employer at the Quigley North and Quigley South Schools, Chicago, Illinois, excluding rectors, procura- tors, dean of studies, business manager, director of student activities, director of formation, director of counseling services, office clerical employees, main- tenance employees, cafeteria workers, watchmen, librarians, nurses, all religious faculty, and all guards and supervisors as defined in the Act. DATED at Chicago, Illinois, this 8rd day of November, 1975. /s/ Alex V. Barbour ALEX V. BARBOUR Regional Director National Labor Relations Board Thirteenth Region Everett McKinley Dirksen Building 219 South Dearborn Street—Room 881 Chicago, Illinois 60604 Attachment c Ja a) Request for tecogninion as Horgeiming Representative sas made on May 2 U : 975 ‘ Mewth das. sear! declined recoganion On oF shows May 2 3 9 197 5 (lf ae reply rnened Matel (Meuth day years f LAs) i: Peiuoner Currently tecognired as Bargewn ng Representatne and Gewres corulcstion wndcr the act ee 7 KRecogniucd of Ceruhed Barge "6 MA mae . F ; . Tatuiatow J borin Apintaves NON 4 NATIONAL iA sy ; Merete: ‘ . Lbaves au ‘%s urratie a0oerts : Bat OF Corin O8 ClOtw air - + iat cee eee : PETIT!OjNN PO wOT While tm Ver ; rr gee att Of Geeta tiin ov eee, 2528: 5 O87 aad yew Dalt tuio A “bering ie faeces cast etd segue he National Lahor Relatios s Rosrd Proce National labor Pele ‘ Lic. 18 tm Over was Oftw ricrets of the Act het been ple ims eli cag the 1 son of the tepe Pelitron rt wat he deemed made OBGANI2 4TION o (Imsert addres aentuue ; be represented (ur; viperses of cullesive 12. Of GANIZATIONS O89 INOIv Ovais OWED tuam oes WONER® (AND Ofmte THAN Ti > oe tas hel, wweeCee WAVE CitemtD BECOCraTIOr: 06 bergeming ot and ot stews ees ZATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS ENGwn I ESENTALIVE UNTEREST IN ANT EmPLOTEES tn THE Unt DIS MEIC in pewr) REPRESENTATIVES AMO Olmert O6Gam " A (\f MONE 5 ) ’ KRM-KIPRISINTA . “APL ‘tl moorr 4aler es tudents of high sci; ef pres . Ga. NUMBEF OF bum oy > = ¥ ~ , * . we Ula All full-time and regular nart-time lay (non-re] 1 hears nine we aed stthah deur 1 ‘sional frculty memebers, including teache liat inistrators, and all depart; ers rarians (etsenr ADD cha i? r2OrOCED Lacluded Religious, office clericals, teachcr aid: ‘part-time ae , ‘ 2ceicr ] > a ale “oc yo “I 6 94 Aas 30% O8 MOI OF naraprofessionals), cafeteria workers, assistant or vice | te tances eg Principals, business managers, nurses, athletic directors, tse Tene and guards and suvervisorse as defined in the act. E) ws =e LJ a a . | cee ses «sentence — * Nev eppleahle sa (lf vow hore checked box Re | ahere, heh and sumplete ELLER stem “a er "bh. hehe 1 0 appluatic; ’ RM tt yas 4 13 RC-RM-RD UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD Case No. 25-RC-5984 ND-—TyPE oF ELECTION—RD Direction DIOCESE OF ForRT WAYNE-SouTH BEND, INC., EMPLOYER and COMMUNITY ALLIANCE FOR TEACHERS OF CATHOLIC HiGH SCHOOLS ( C.A.T.C.H.), PETITIONER CERTIFICATE OF REPRESENTATIVE An election having been conducted in the above matter under the supervision of the Regional Director of the National Labor Relations Board in accordance with the Rules and Regulations of the Board ; and it appearing from the Tally of Ballots that a collective bargaining representative has been selected; and no objections having been filed to the Tally of Ballots furnished to the parties, or to the conduct of the election, within the time provided therefor; Pursuant to authority vested in the undersigned by the National Labor Relations Board, IT IS HEREBY CER- TIFIED thet a majority of the valid ballots have been cast for COMMUNITY ALLIANCE FOR TEACHERS OF CATHOLIC HIGH SCHOOLS (C.A.T.C.H.) and that, pursuant to Section 9(a) of the National Labor Relations Act, as amended, the said labor organization is the exclusive representative of all the employees in the unit set forth below, found to be appropriate for the purposes of collective bargaining in respect to rates of pay, wages, hours of employment, or other conditions of employment. UNIT: All full time and regular part time lay (non- religious) professional faculty members of the Em- 14 ployer’s five high schools, including teachers, li- brarians, guidance deans, moderators of student council and all department chair persons who are teachers, athletic directors; BUT EXCLUDING all religious, all office clerical employees, teacher aids, (part time para-profes- sionals), cafeteria workers, assistant or vice prin- cipals, business managers, nurses, custodians, guards and supervisors as defined in the Act. 15 BEFORE THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD THIRTEENTH REGION Case No. 13-RC-13402 IN THE MATTER OF: THE BISHOP OF CHICAGO, A CORPORATION SOLE, EMPLOYER Signed at INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA On the 12th day of SEPTEMBER 1975. and | SEAL } On behalf of NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD /s/ [Illegible}] Regional Director Region Twenty-five National Labor Relations Board QUIGLEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, AN AFFILIATE OF ILLINOIS EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, PETITIONER Room 823, Everett McKinley Dirksen Building 219 South Dearborn Street Chicago, Illinois Tuesday, February 25, 1975 Pursuant to notice, the above-entitled matter came on for hearing at 10:00 o’clock a.m. BEFORE: KATHERINE GERSTENBERGER, Hearing Officer. APPEARANCES: KIRKLAND & ELLIS, BY DONALD C. MOSS and JAMES A. SERRITELLA, 200 East Randolph Drive, Suite 5900, Chicago, Illinois, 60601, appeared on behalf of the Employer. EDES and ROSEN, by HARVEY A. NATHAN, One North LaSalle Street, Chicago, Illinois, 60602, appeared on behalf of the Petitioner. 16 (5] HEARING OFFICER: Is it possible to stipulate that the Quigley Education Association, An Affiliate of Illinois Education Association is a labor organization within the meaning of the National Labor Relations Act as amended? MR. MOSS: It is so stipulated. MR. NATHAN: Yes. HEARING OFFICER: The stipulation is received. [6] * * * HEARING OFFICER: Is it possible to stipulate the following: The Petitioner on April 9, 1974, in writing requested recognition as bargaining agent for the employees in the requested unit. The Employer on April 17, 1974, in writing and orally re- fused to grant recognition unless and until the Peti- tioner was certified by the National Labor Relations Board? a MR. MOSS: With the caveat again that it is the requested units, plural. It is fair to say. HEARING OFFICER: The Petitioner requested rec- ognition in more than one unit? MR. NATHAN: No. mee MR. MOSS: The Petitioner refers to two institutions. HEARING OFFICER: Oh. I see what you mean. MR. MOSS: That is what draws my response to that point. HEARING OFFICER: You are referring to Quigley North and Quigley South? MR. MOSS: That is correct. HEARING OFFICER: With that additional infor- mation, can [7] you stipulate to what I have previously stated? MR. MOSS: We can so stipulate. HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Nathan? MR. NATHAN: Yes. HEARING OFFICER: The stipulation is received. [10] * * * MR. SERRITELLA: The Employer would like to move to dismiss the Petition on several grounds. The first ground is that as a matter of policy the Board 17 does not accept jurisdiction over charitable, religious, eleemosynary institutions, and the two institutions in this case would fall into that category. The second ground is that Courts in this country have traditionally recognized the fact that the ecclesiastical institutions, which are subject to ecclesiastical law, are beyond the reach of the civil law, and we move to dismiss on the ground this would infringe that principle. A third ground is that the assertion of jurisdiction by the NLRB would violate the First Amendment right to freedom of re- ligion enjoyed by the institutions, the Employer and the members of the institutions under the Constitution of the United States and the State of Illinois. The fourth criteria is that the hearing itself, inquiring into whether or not and to what extent an institution is religious, is itself a violation [11] of the institution, the Employer, and the members of the institution’s First Amendment rights under the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of [llinois, and we would ask that the Petition be dismissed on that ground. And finally, we specifically reserve the rights of the Employer, the institution, the members of the institution under the Civil Rights Act of the United States government and the government of the State of Illinois to proceed against the participants in this hearing for violation of our civil rights at some appropriate time in the future. * * * . [24] MONSIGNOR HARRY C. KOENIG, called as a witness for and on behalf of Counsel for the Employer herein, and after having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: HEARING OFFICER: Have a seat. Give your name and address to the court reporter, please. THE WITNESS: My name is Harry C. Koenig, and my address is the Cardinal Stritch Retreat House, P.O. Box 455, Murdelein, Illinois. 18 DIRECT EXAMINATION Q (By Mr. Serritella) Could you spell your name for the court reporter? It has an unusual spelling. A K-o-e-n-i-g. Q Monsignor, what is your business or occupation? A I am a Catholic priest. Q Are you connected with any particular geographic designation of the Catholic Church? A Iam the Vicar Delegate in Vicarate Number One of the Archdiocese of Chicago. Q Do you hold any other positions in the Archdiocese of Chicago? A I am the Director of the Cardinal Stritch Retreat House. Q What is Vicarate Eight? A Vicarate One. Q Iam sorry. [25] A It embraces all the Lake County and western part of Cook County. It is to represent the Catholic Bishop of Chicago in those areas. * * * . [30] Q Monsignor, what is a seminary? A A seminary is a school for the education of priests. Q Priests. What is a priest? A A priest is a clergyman of the Roman Catholic Church. Q When did seminaries begin? A Well, seminaries began—the word “seminary” comes from the Latin seminarium and it was first used at the time of the Council of Trent. We don’t know precisely who used the term for the first time, but several different theologians at that time used the word “seminary” for a school for the education of priests. However, the idea of seminaries goes back to the time of Our Lord. Q Just let me interrupt you a second. So the record is clear, what was the Council of Trent? A The Council of Trent was one of the councils of the Catholic Church, and a council is a gathering of ~ 19 Bishops of the Catholic Church together with the Pope to formulate doctrine and law for the Church. Q And when did the Council of Trent take place? A It was called in the year 1545 and closed in the year 1563. Q Now, please explain how priests were trained be- fore the Council of Trent. A Well, as I say, Our Lord himself trained his twelve apostles over the three years of his public life. [31] Q You better explain, Monsignor, what you mean by Our Lord. A Well, Jesus Christ trained his twelve apostles over the three years of his public life, and the first example we have specifically is with St. Augustine of Hippo who lived at the end of the Fourth and the beginning of the Fifth Century. He gathered a group of young men into his episcopal home and he trained them for the priest- hood Q St. Augustine was a Bishop? A The Bishop of Hippo in North Africa. Q He took the responsibility for the training of priests in his own home? A In his diocese. He was a Bishop. He was Bishop of Hippo. He took the responsibility for training the men who were going to be priests in his diocese. Q What sort of training did he give? A Well, he gathered them together and they were trained, I would say, very much like a doctor or a lawyer was trained in those days, namely by living with a person who practiced that art and learning from him practically and theoretically how he performed his duties. What was the content of the training or education that he was giving? A Well, it was a content both of the secular and religious education. First of all, the man had to learn how to [32] read and wrote and learn language, and secondly after he learned to read and write and learned his language, then he began to learn the doctrines and practices of the Church. Q Why was it necessary for priests at that time to have a secular education? 20 A Well, because if they didn’t have a secular educa- tion they couldn’t acquire a religious education. They had to learn to read and write to begin with. Q Was there any other reason? A Well, also to deal with the people that they were dealing with. Naturally if you are going to preach a sermon or communicate with the people of your time you had to have the secular knowledge that these people had. Q At the time of St. Augustine were bishops _per- mitted to delegate their authority over the training of priests to any outside body? A No. As far as I know from my studies each bishop had this authority himself and he trained them himself. Q Why was that the case? A Well, I would say there was nobody eles to do it except the bishop. Q What was the next major event in the history of seminaries after this early period? A After St. Augustine the next event was the found- ing of the religious orders. {33] When did that take place? A In the Sixth and Seventh Centuries, especially with St. Benedict. Q Could you briefly explain so the record is clear what a religious order is? A Well, a religious order is a group of men or women who are bound together by three vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience in a ruled life. Q What is a vow? A A vow is a solemn promise to God that you are going to practice a virtue. Q All right. How did the development of the religious orders affect the development of seminaries? A Each religious order had a mother house where the men themselves were trained in this religious order, and this was a school and some of the bishops sent their men to these religious orders in order to be trained. Q And what type of training did candidates for the priesthood receive at that time? eI 0 EE’S[Z=SC ol 21 A They received both secular and religious training. They learned to read and write and learned the culture and the language of the people of that area, and then they learned religious doctrine. Q Why did they have to learn secular education in language and in the culture of their time? [34] A Because they had to deal with the people of their time. Each priest went out and he usually was a pastor of a church, and he dealt with people and he had to know their culture and their language and be able to communicate with them. Q What was the next major development in the history of seminaries? A After the Council of Trent it took some while— Q No, we are speaking now about the Sixth Century and the religious orders. Now, what happened after that, the religious orders in the Sixth Century? A The next major development, you might say, was the founding of the universities in the Twelfth and Thirteenth Centuries. And the universities were graduate institutions like Bologna and Paris and Oxford, and they had courses of instruction, and some of the men went to the great universities for their instruction. Q And what type of training was given to the priest at that time? A Well, it was the same type of training of secular knowledge and religious knowledge. Q Was their training at these universities completely detached or were they under the supervision of someone? A Well, at the universities both the religious orders were represented. They had houses and there were other [35] houses for the living quarters of the diocesan priests. You have to make a distinction in the university between a university and a college. A college was not the same as we would call a college today. But were rather a residence for the men studying at the university. Q Did the bishop have any role in the training of priests at this time? A Well, there were still bishops who had their own cathedral colleges in their own cathedrals. When they went to the university they were outside the jurisdiction PEE EB 22 of a particular bishop except a local bishop of that area. And I would say that if a man went to the University of Oxford and he lived in Cambridge, he would be under the Bishop of Oxford even though, you know, he belonged to Cambridge itself. Q What was the next point or next event in the his- tory of the development of seminaries? A Well, it was the Council of Trent. Q How did the Council of Trent change this prior practice? A Well, the Council of Trent— Q Well, before we ask that question, did the Council of Trent issue any legislation with respect to semi- naries? A Yes. In the year 1563 the Council of Trent issued some formal canons on the training of seminarians. [36] MR. SERRITELLA: Could you mark this as Employer’s Exhibit No. 1, please? (The document above-referred to was marked Em- ployer’s Exhibit No. 1 for identification. ) Q ‘By Mr. Serritella) I show you what has been marked as Employer’s Exhibit No. 1 for identification, and ask you if that is the legislation issued by the Coun- cil of Trent for seminaries? A That is, correct. Q Did this legislation change the practice prior to the Council of Trent of training priests? A No. It put it into code form, into canon form, so that it was now formalized what had been practiced before. Q When you said “canon form” what did you mean by “canon”? A Well, the Church, the decrees of a council has canons and they are paragraphs of doctrine. Q_ They are part of an official compilation? A That is correct, Q What specifically did the Council of Trent legis- late for seminaries? A The Council of Trent made it an obligation on the part of each bishop to have a school attached to his cathedral for the training of men for the priesthood. 23 Q And what type of training did the Council re- quire that each priest receive? [37] A It required that they receive secular learning, such as it mentions here, singing, grammar, computation, but it also required religious education. Q And why did— MR. NATHAN: Excuse me. Can I clarify one point? Did you say that the Council said you have to have a school for each archbishop or each bishop? You said “attached to each cathedral”. THE WITNESS: The legislation was for each ca- thedral, but it specifies in here that if the diocese is too small and cannot afford to have this school, then a group of dioceses can get together and have one school, a regional school. . MR. NATHAN: Thank you. Q (By Mr. Serritella) Did the legislation of the Council of Trent speak to the power and the authority of the bishop over the training of priests? A Yes. It made this his exclusive role. He was to determine the curriculum; he was to determine who the professors were; he was to determine the discipline of the training. Q Did the Council of Trent legislation mandate that the bishop not share his authority over seminaries with any outside institution? A Yes. [38] Q And why is that the case? A_ Well, the Council saw that this is the obligation of the bishop to train his own men, and he cannot delegate this to someone else. Q Is there anything about the nature of seminaries that imposes this responsibility? A Well, the nature is to train the man in true doctrine and true practice of religion, and this is the obligation of the bishop because the bishop is the head of the diocese. MR. SERRITELLA: Miss Hearing Officer, I would like to move that the reporter strike the identification and that the exhibit be admitted into evidence. HEARING OFFICER: Is there any objection? 24 MR. NATHAN: No objection. HEARING OFFICER: Employer’s Exhibit No. 1 is received into evidence. (The document heretofore marked Employer’s Ex- hibit No. 1 for identification, was received in evi- dence, ) Q (By Mr. Serritella) Monsignor Koenig, what was the next major development in the history of seminaries after the Council of Trent? A Well, the first effort was to put this legislation into effect, and many seminaries were started soon after the Council of Trent. The first man who distinguished himself in this regard was St. Charles Borromeo who was the Arch- [39] bishop of Milan who lived at the same time as the Council of Trent, and in France a hundred years later there were several different theolo- gians or founders of religious orders who worked at this pursuit, chief among which was St. Vincent de Paul who was the first man to distinguish between a major and a minor seminary. Q When did St. Vincent de Paul live? A He lived in the Seventeenth Century. I believe, if I recall correctly, that it was in 1642 that he founded the first minor seminary. Q And where did he found that seminary? A In France. Q And prior to 1642 there were no institutions called minor seminaries? A Well, the Council of Trent Said that they should take in boys who are 12 years old to train them for priests, and usually a priest was ordained in the middle of his 20’s, so there was a school from 12 years of age until 24 or 25, and that was a long time for a student to be in one institution. And so St. Vincent de Paul Saw the wisdom of separating the two into what he called a minor seminary and a major seminary. Q What sort of training was given to minor semi- narians at the time of St. Vincent de Paul? A The training was chiefly in what we might call secular [40] subjects, but it was pointed out that the 25 chief subject should be religion. But they were taught secular subjects such as languages and history and music and science. Q Monsignor, there are many unfamiliar terms here. So the record is absolutely clear, could you please give us a brief definition of minor seminary? A Well, the minor seminary as we understand it in our time? Q Well, at the time of St. Vincent de Paul. A Well, it depended upon when a man entered the group, whether he was 12 or 14 or 16, but it consisted mainly in teaching him the secular subjects together with religion, and it was the school that lasted until the time he studied philosophy. When he got to the point of studying philosophy then he went into the major semi- nary. Q It was preparatory study, and it was preparatory to the study of philosophy and theology? A Philosophy and theology, correct. Q What was the next major development in the history of seminaries? A The next major development was the founding— the establishment of the Congregation for Seminaries and Universities in the year 1915. Q Again to make the record clear, would you please explain what a Congregation is? [41] A Well, the Pope, the head of the Catholic Church, has certain groups of men to handle certain types of business for him. It would correspond, I think, to the Cabinet of our government. So that there are different departments in the Church, and one of the departments is the Department of what we might call Education, and the Congregation that governs the educa- tion especially of priests and papal universities is called the Congregation for Seminaries and Universities, Q Just to make it absolutely clear, this Congregation is an institution at the very highest levels of the govern- ment of the Roman Catholic Church? A Correct. Q And it is subordinate solely to the Pope? A Correct. 26 Q And the Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church? A Correct. Q And the Congregation for Seminaries and Uni- versities was established in 1915? A Yes. Q Would you briefly explain the duties and func- tions of the Congregation for Seminaries and Univer- sities? A The duty was to supervise all the seminaries in the world and to see that they reached standards that were set for seminary education regarding the curri- culum, the faculty, [42] and the discipline in seminaries. Q Let me see if I understand you correctly. If a bishop were not doing his duty in supervising and op- erating a seminary in his diocese would he be answerable for it to the Congregation of Seminaries and Universi- ties? A Yes, that is correct. Q How would he be answerable to this Congregation? A Each Bishop of the Catholic Church is required to make a visit to Rome every five years, and in this visit to Rome he has to go to the different Congrega- tions of the Catholic Church and submit a report, and the members of this Congregation either approve or disapprove of his report. Q If the Bishop is not doing something in accord- ance with the laws of the Church, this Congregation will take measures to make sure that he does, is that correct? A That is correct. Q We have been ising the term “Bishop” frequently in the course of your testimony, and it is another one of those terms which may be unfamiliar. and I would like you to give us a brief definition so that the record is absolutely clear on that point. A The Catholic Church is divided geographically into dioceses which are geographical territories, and the Catholic Church has one man in charge of each diocese and that man is called the Bishop. 27 [43] Q What is an archdiocese, since we have already used that term and you said you were a priest of the Archdiocese of Chicago? A Well, some dioceses are larger in population and in number of catholics than others, and in order to give them a distinction due to their size, the man who is the head of that territory usually is an Archbishop and his territory is called an Archdiocese. And he then has a position of influence with the other dioceses which are in the territory. That is called a Province, the other dioceses now. For instance, in Illinois there is an Arch- diocese of Chicago, and there is the Province of the State of Illinois, and you have five other Bishops. Q_ That has been very helpful. Thank you. What was the next major development in the history of seminaries after the establishment of the Congrega- tion for Seminaries and Universities? A It was the Code of Canon Law which was pub- lished in 1918, Q What was the Code of Canon Law? A It was all the laws of the Catholic Church gathered together and put in formulation. Q Was there a Code of Canon Law before 1918? A Well, there was another one published back in the Thirteenth Century called the Corpus Juris. [44] Q But this is the first compilation since the Thirteenth Century? A Correct. Q Did the Code of Canon Law contain any legisla- tion relating to seminaries? A It has a special section on that subject. MR. SERRITELLA: Miss Reporter, could you please mark this as Employer’s Exhibit No. 2 for identification? (The document above-referred to was marked Em- ployer’s Exhibit No. 2 for identification. ) Q (By Mr. Serritella) I show you what has been marked as Employer’s Exhibit No. 2 for identification and ask you if that is the portion of the Code of Canon Law that relates to seminaries? A Yes, it is. 28 Q Did the Code of Canon Law enacted in 1918 change the basic structure of seminaries as it was laid down by the Council of Trent and as it developed after the Council of Trent? A No, it didn’t change the basic structure. It just brought it up to date. Q Did the Code of Canon Law change the require- ment that seminaries give future priests a secular as well as a religious education? 0. [45] Q Did the Code of Canon Law change the ec- clesiastical and religious nature of seminaries? A No. Q They were still ecclesiastical and religious institu- tions? A Correct. Q Did the Code of Canon Law change the duties and obligations of the Bishop with respect to the institution and operation of seminaries? A_ No, it just defined it. Q And how did the Code of Canon Law define those duties and obligations? A Well, it was the sole obligation of the Bishop to Supervise the seminary and to see to its curriculum and discipline. Q And this was the case since the time of St. Augus- tine? A Correct. MR. SERRITELLA: Miss Hearing Officer, I move that the identification be stricken and that Employer’s Exhibit No. 2 be admitted into evidence. MR. NATHAN: No objection. HEARING OFFICER: Employer’s Exhibit 2 js re- ceived into evidence. (The document heretofore marked Employer’s Ex- hibit No. 2 for [46] identification, was received in evidence. ) Q (By Mr. Serritella) One word of clarification, Monsignor. You explained what the Code of Canon Law was. What is a canon? 29 A A canon in the Code of Canon Law is a specific declaration of law. Q If I may analogize to terms we use in the civil law, which are probably more understandable to the people who are Studying this record, is it like a section or sub-section? A Yes. It is a section of law. Q Thank you. What was the next major development in the history of seminaries after the promulgation of the Code of Canon Law in 1918? A It was the Second Vatican Council. Q And when did the Second Vatican Council occur? A The second Vatican Council was held from the year 1962 to 1965. And again, so that the record is clear, what is a council? A A council is a gathering of the Bishops of the Catholic Church together with the Pope to formulate doctrine and discipline and law for the Church. Q Now, we call this one the Second Vatican Council. We called the other one the Council of Trent, Why do they [47] have different names if they are the same kind of institution? A Well, councils in the Catholic Church are named usually after the place where they were held, and the Council of Trent was held in the town of Trent in northern Italy, and the Vatican Council was held at the Q Why do they call it the Second Vatican Council? A Because there was a First Vatican Council in 1869 and ’70 at the Vatican. Q Did the Second Vatican Council issue any legisla- MR. SERRITELLA: Miss Reporter, I ask you to mark for identification Employer’s Exhibit No. 3. (The document above-referred to was marked Em- ployer’s Exhibit No. 3 for identification. ) 30 Q_ (By Mr. Serritella) Monsignor, I show you what has been marked as Employer’s Exhibit No. 3 for iden- tification and ask you if that is the legisiation issued by the Second Vatican Council relating to seminaries? A Itis. Q Did this legislation change the prescriptions of the Code of Canon Law for the operation of seminaries? A No, it didn’t change it. It just brought it up to date. [48] Q What do you mean “brought it up to date”? A Well, it realized that cultural differences had taken place since the time of the promulgation of the Code, and that these cultural differences should be recognized in the training of priests. Q Could you give us an example of the changes in cul- ture that you are referring to? A Well, I would say that one of the principal examples would be the languages that, were taught in the seminary. Q And what languages had been taught in the sem- inaries prior to the Second Vatican Council? A_ Well, prior to the Second Vatican Council the na- tive language was always taught in the seminary, but there Was special emphasis on Latin and Greek, and in the present there is more emphasis on the vernacular lan- guage than on Latin and Greek. Q What do you mean by the vernacular and lan- guage? A I mean the native language of those who are studying in the seminary. Q You testified that the Second Vatican Council did not change the basic structure of seminaries. Does that mean that it did not change the duties and obligations of the Bishop to operate seminaries? A No. This is still the same. It is the sole obliga- tion of the Bishop to supervise the seminary. [49] Q Did it change the requirement that candi- dates for the priesthood be given a secular as well as a religious education? A No, it didn’t change this at all. Q Did it change the religious and ecclesiastical char- acter of seminarigs?. SE cl Mildly ant 31 A No. They still remain religious and ecclesiastical institutions. Q Did it abolish minor seminaries? A No. It spoke of them and said that they had a spe- cial duty in these days. Q And what was that special duty? A It was to train young men for the major seminary. so that they would be ready to study philosophy and theology. Q Monsignor, I have one final question—I am sorry. Miss Hearing Officer, 1 ask that the identification be stricken on the Employer’s Exhibit No. 3 and move that it be admitted into evidence. MR. NATHAN: No objection. HEARING OFFICER: Employer’s Exhibit 3 is ad- mitted into evidence, (The document heretofore marked Employer’s Ex- hibit No. 3 for identification, was received in evi- dence, ) Q (By Mr. Serritella) Monsignor, I have one last question. In your professional opinion as a church his- torian, [50] are the basic structure and laws governing seminaries, both major and minor seminaries, from the Council of Trent until the present day to which you have testified, still binding on Bishops in the administration of seminaries? A Yes. These instructions are the most serious obli- gations of the Bishop. His most serious obligation is the training of priests? A I believe that is his most serious obligation. Q And that is in your professional opinion as a church historian? A Yes. [51] *** Q (By Mr. Serritella) Does the contin- ued existence and viability of the priesthood depend on the Bishop’s fulfilling his responsibility to institute and operate seminaries? MR. NATHAN: I have no objection to that. THE WITNESS: Yes is what I would answer to that question. +. ca * * CROSS EXAMINATION Q (By Mr. Nathan) Monsignor, would you define again for me what a seminary is? A A seminary is a school for the training of priests. Q Does it have any other purpose? A Well, it gives a secular education to young men as well as religious education, but it is for the training of priests. * * * * [92] *** Q Would you again distinguish for me the difference between a minor seminary and a major sem- inary? A A minor seminary, as I understand it, is a school preparing a young man to enter a major seminary, and the major seminary is where the young man learns phil- osophy and theology. Q What is a seminary high school? A_ Well, a seminary high school is a new concept of the last few years in which a seminarian’s education is divided into a high school division, a college division, and a theology division of four years, plus four years, plus four years. HEARING OFFICER: Excuse me. High school, what? THE WITNESS: College and theology. HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. High school is four years, college is four years— THE WITNESS: And theology is four years. [53] Q (By Mr. Nathan) Would you consider the Quigley schools seminary high schools? A I would, yes. Q Would you consider them—in line with your defi- nition would you consider them as minor seminaries as well? : ~ cupeanteetiedete sn ee ee le ee ee Beebe ea stew ad 33 (60) *"** A “Since the Mass is the center of Chris- tian spiritual formation, daily attendance is expected of all. Every effort should be made to make this a com- pletely meaningful experience for the adolescent. Music and liturgy should, as far as permissible, be adapted to the particular needs of the group.” something that historically has always been the case? A Historically I would say this has always been the ite requirement. [61] *** Q And who is the Cardinal of the Arch- diocese of Chicago? A Cardinal John Patrick Cody. And would he, even though he is a Cardinal, still be responsible to the Congregation for Seminaries and Univer- [62] sities? versities? A Yes. Q Now, as a student of those particular documents which have been testified to, is the Archbishop of the the operation of the seminaries in this Archdiocese? A I believe he is, 34 [72] REVEREND JOHN R. KEATING, called as a witness for and on behalf of Counsel for the Employer herein, and after having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: . - * * DIRECT EXAMINATION Q (By Mr. Sennitella) Father Keating, could you please state your business or profession for the record? A Iam a Catholic priest ordained in 1958 and pres- ently assigned to the Archdiocese of Chicago in the posi- tion of co-Chancellor of the Archdiocese. Q Could you explain for the purposes of the record what a co-Chancellor is? A_ A co-Chancellor is an administrative assistant to the Chancellor of the Diocese, and he in turn is a major administrative officer of the Bishop’s central governing Office. Q And what are your duties as co-Chancellor? [73] A I assist the Chancellor in the day-to-day ad- ministration of the Archdiocese and also act as canonical counsel to the Chancellor, the Vicar General, and the Archbishop of Chicago. Q What do you mean by canonical counsel? A It would be legal counsel in canon law. Q Do you hold any other position with the Roman Catholic Church? , A I am presently consultant to the United States Bishops Committee for Canonical Affairs. * * * * [75] Q In view of your education, your professional background, are you aware of your own knowledge of the Church law that relates to seminaries? A I am familiar with it, yes. Q More specifically are you of your own knowledge aware 9 the canon law as it relates to seminaries? A Yes. . * * * 35 Q What are the sources, the major sources, of Church law governing Seminaries in the Archdiocese of Chicago? A The major documents that currently affect semin- aries in legislation are first and basically the Code of Canon Law, which is the general law for the universal Church which has been in effect since 1918. Subsequent, and if you want to refer locally to Chicago, a document of October 5, 1970; also in 1970 a document emanating from Rome for the universal Church affecting Church sem- inaries around the world called Ratio Fundamentalis— [76] Q Could you spell that, please? A R-a-t-i-o, F-u-n-d-a-m-e-n-t-a-l-i-s.— which was pub- lished in 1970 and gives a—gives guidelines to the re- newed programs of seminary training. Also in the United States of America there is special legislation that follows upon the Ratio Fundamentalis of Rome the following year in 1971. It is called “A Program for Priestly For- mation”’, Q Who issued the Program for Priestly Formation? A The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops promulgated the document. Q Are there any other major sources of law govern- ing the seminaries in the Archdiocese of Chicago? A Well, there certainly are what are called encycli- cals. Almost every Pope has issued a major document concerning seminaries because seminaries are so impor- tant. To name a few: Menti Nostrae, M-e-n-t-i, N-o-s- t-r-a-e, Pope Pius the Twelfth, 1951; Princeps Pastorum, P-r-i-n-c-e-p-s, P-a-s-t-0-r-u-m, Pope John Twenty third, 1959. Q Did the Second Vatican Council issue any legisla- tion relevant to seminary training? A Yes, it did. It issued a decree on priestly forma- tion, one of the 16 major documents coming out of the Second Vatican Council, and that document was promul- gated in 1965. * * * * — Again directing your attention to the first paragraph of Canon 1354, what is your legal opin- ion as to the duties that canon imposes on the bishop? 36 A Well, primarily it imposes the obligation of estab- lishing a seminary in each diocese. This particular canon, strictly speaking, refers simply to that aspect of the es- tablishment of seminaries, not the supervision of them, which comes later in the law. Q I direct your attention to the second paragraph of Canon 1354 and ask that you read that paragraph for the record. * * om * ioe) °° * @ Directing your attention especially to the words “letters and Sciences”, aren’t these boys train- ing to be priests and shouldn’t they only be studying reli- gion? A No, that is not correct. Q What is not correct? A The fact they should only study religion. They must have an education, a high school education which is on a par prevailing with the degree of culture with their situation at this place and time. Q And the mandate in this paragraph that the minor Seminaries should give an education in letters and sci- ences refers to that fact? A Yes. And this, of course, was expanded in great detail in subsequent documents. . * * * 83] *** A Well, the law clearly prefers that there be not only major seminary training but also minor semi- nary training. This particular law refers to the larger dioceses at least, or especially the larger disoceses, should have minor seminaries. The preference of having minor seminaries was again expressed more recently by Pope John Twenty-third, the Pope who convened the Second Vatican Council. When he was writing about the mis- sionary endeavors of the Church he, in 1959, went beyond what this particular law called for and called for the establishment of a minor seminary in every missionary diocese of the Church knowing that the growth of the Church largley depends on its seminaries. Q Is it your legal opinion then that the optimum, prescribed training for a Catholic priest begins in the ee 37 first year of the minor seminary and ends with the last year of the major seminary, but that exceptions are made so that a person can begin this training at a later date, but those exceptions are not So extensive as to eliminate the requirement of seminary training entirely? A That is correct. The preference is stated in the Law. [86] A It reads: “In every seminary there must be a rector for the government of the house, professors, an economus,” E-c-o-n-o-m-u-s, “distinct from the rector for the administration of the temporalities, at least two ordi- nary confessors, and a spiritual director.” Q What is a rector? A The rector is the chief officer of the seminary who discharges the responsibilities of the bishop in the semi- nary. Q Does the bishop have authority over the record or does the rector have authority over the bishop as it re- lates to seminaries? A The rector is directly responsible or answerable to the bishop. * = 7 * [89] *** Q I direct your attention to Canon 1363 —which is Paragraph 1206 in our translation—and ask you to read the first two paragraphs of that canon. A It reads: “The bishop should receive into the seminary only boys of legitimate birth, and of such a character that there is good reason to believe they will perservere and work with success in the ecclesiastical ministry. Before they are received they must present testimonials of legitimate birth, of Baptism and Confirmation, and of conduct.” Q What does this canon mean by legitimate birth? [90] A The term here is used from canon law, and it means an offspring of a legitimate Marriage which, in turn, means a valid marriage in Church law. Q What is a testimonial of legitimate birth? 38 A Usually the document that is preserved in the parish archives concerning the birth and baptism of an infant is sufficient proof. Q What is baptism or a testimonial of baptism? A Baptism, of course, is the first of the sacraments, the rite of initiation into the Church. A testimonial of baptism is an authentic certificate issued by the local pastor who is in charge of the local archives. Q What is the testimonial of confirmation? A Likewise an authentic certificate issued by the pastor of the place of Confirmation affirming the fact the pastor has indeed confirmed the boy. Q What is a testimonial of conduct? A A testimonial of conduct is a reference of good character. Q What mandate does this therefore give to the bishop in administration of seminaries? A Well, rather remarkably, it assigns even such things as admission policies and dismissal policies per- sonally to the bishop, and this is an instance of showing how the Church considers seminaries, that the details of the opera- [91] tion of a seminary are entrusted to the bishop. Q I direct your attention to Paragraph 1207, which is Canon 1364, and ask you to read that entire canon. A It reads: “In the lower grades of the seminary: first, the religious instruction should occupy the first place, and it is to be adapted to the age and intelligence of the pupi'ls; second, the students should accurately learn Latin and the vernacular language; third, in other branches of study the requirements of the clergy of the respective countries is to be taken into consideration.” Q What is meant by the lower grades of the sem- inary? A This refers to primarily the minor seminary. Q What does Sub-section One of that section mean? A Naturally since the aim and function of this par- ticular institution is to prepare men for priesthood and a religious iife, religious instruction has primary value. Q What does the portion of that Sub-section that re- fers to the age and intelligence of the pupils mean? A It is just basically a statement of good pedagogy. vies athe sy ae OF th tty ates wef. ne 39 Q Could you explain what you mean by that state- ment? A Well, good education takes into account the age of the student and the intelligence of the students, so that the method of teaching and the content are gauged accordingly. Q Could you read Paragraph or Sub-section 2 of that para- [92] graph to yourself and explain what duties that imposes on the seminary? A It is a reminder that the learning of language and verbal skills is important, especially the learning of Latin. Q What is immorality or offenses against Catholic 193] belief? A I am sure you don’t care for examples of im- morality. HEARING OFFICER: I wouldn’t mind a few ex- amples. THE WITNESS: You are saying what is immorality? To act contrary to the moral law is immoral conduct, let us say, in general. Q (By Mr. Serritella) What is the moral law? I am just concerned that the person who has to read this transcript understands the terms that are used, and a brief definition that will help elucidate the text would be helpfu’. HEARING OFFICER: Would that encompass any sin? answer from the regulation concerning professors. Moral turpidude would be an offense for which they might be dismissed. HEARING OFFICER: Off the record. (Short recess taken. ) HEARING OFFICER: On the record. The question was basically if you can give us a relatively short definition of what immorality would encompass. 40 MR. MOSS: Might I just comment at this point, when you speak to the witness it is difficult to hear you when you turn your head. HEARING OFFICER: Did you hear my question? I merely asked for a short definition possibily of im- morality. (94) THE WITNESS: Immorality in this particular canon refers to serious moral misconduct. And example which has been explicitly stated by the Holy See is, for example, that homosexuality is cause for dismissal. Q I direct your attention to this whole title, Title Twenty-One, of the Code of Canon Law relating to seminaries and ask you if this whole Title Twenty-One applies in every detail to seminaries today? A This particular law or section of the law, because it is general law, applies to seminaries around the world. Since then, of course, subsequent documents have referred to the method as opposed to the structure of a seminary in up-dating the procedures of achieving spiri- tual maturity, educational maturity, and for this rea- son the world program is continually used as opposed to basic structures here in the law. Q You said, I believe your testimony is, that some things have changed and some things haven’t changed. Could you tell [95] us what things have not changed? A Well, foremost what has not changed is the fact that the responsibility of directorship, the right to es- tablish seminaries, the supervision, maintenance of semi- naries, the disestablishment of seminaries is thoroughly and immediately entrusted to the bishop. Q That is still the case today? A That is still the case today. Q Does anything else remain the same? A Well, I can certainly give you some examples. The aim of a seminary, its purpose, remains the same even in subsequent and most recent documents. Q More specifically, does Canon 1362, which is Sec- tion 1205 in the translation, still have validity today? A Yes. ve TO ‘se wh a ee earner ee ee, ee Wi eel te, — er ‘a. 41 Q When you say that these sections have validity today, do you mean that they are binding on the minor seminaries of the Archdiocese of Chicago? A Yes. * * * * (97] * * * Q Is the decree entitled “Decree on Priestly Formation” binding on the minor seminaries in the Archdiocese of Chicago today? A Yes. P . [104] * * * Q What is the primary reason for giv- ing secular education? A The primary reason is to prepare the man later on in the ministry to deal with people in the certain culture. Secondly, there are those who will not achieve ministry, and they should not be ill-equipped to enter into another vocation if they so choose. Q Directing your attention again to Page 438 of this document, I ask you if the Episcoal Conference of the United States has drafted a program for the training of priests in this country? A Yes. First, following the direction of this de- cree, the Holy See in 1970 drew up a basie program of guidelines for priestly formation, which in turn was used as a pattern for the Nationa] Conference of Bishops to draw up their particular guidelines of priestly forma- tion applicable to seminaries in the United States. That document came out in 1971. MR. SERRITELLA: I ask the reporter to mark this as Employer’s Exhibit No. 4 for identification. (The document above-referred to was marked Em- ployer’s Exhibit No. 4 for identification. ) [105] Q (By Mr. Serritella) | ask you to read the title on what has been marked as Employer’s Exhibit 4. A “The Program of Priestly Formation of the Na- tional Conference of Catholic Bishops, United States of America.” Q On what date was this document issued? A On January 18, 1971. * * * * 42 Q Is this document bindin on the Catholics j United States? g € Vatholics in the A Itis. * * * * [106] * * * Q I direct your attention to Page 46 of Employer’s Exhibit No. 4 and ask you to read the paragraph on that page designated 202 to yourself, and when you have read it, please let us know SO we can ask you questions about it. Yes. Q What duties does this paragraph put on the bishop for seminaries? A iIt presumes the norms of the Code of Canon Law in that the bishop is the one to establish and supervise Do these three documents read together permit the bishop to share his responsibility for the training of priests with anyone outside the Church? Q a is that the case? irst, it is proper to the Church by the ve Church is a church that it reserves rs hd chloe se CORA AI Wd Bile hain SAAR ay od heb Silas este : a 3 3 ¥ 43 formation of men for the seminaries. I think the Church historically certainly has looked upon its control over seminaries as really control over its lifeline. To a great extent, the growth and the vitality, and in some cases the very survival of the Church, depends upon the Church’s responsibility over seminaries, the right to op- erate them. [108] To give an example to show this intense concern of the Church, in countries where perhaps a hostile gov- ernment threatens to take control of the seminaries, the Church is quick to seek negotiations at the highest level with that government, and indeed has concluded treaties, called concordats, with various countries. A concordat is a public, bilaterial treaty between the Holy See and the top power of a given country regulating matters of mu- tual concern and recurrently through concordats, espe- cially now, too, in the Twentieth Century, a recurrent item in concordat agreement is the freedom to operate seminaries, to establish them, to supervise them to con- trol the curriculum, personnel of seminaries. Q In those corcordats the Church preserves its exclu- sive right to operate seminaries, is that correct? Is that your testimony? A It reasserts its rights and seeks to guarantee these rights, especially in places where they are threatened. Q When you speak of the Church, you are speaking of the Roman Catholie Church? A The Roman Catholie Church. Q The same Church of which the Archdiocese of Chi- cago is a constituent part? A That is correct. Q The same Church that operates the minor semi- naries in [109] the Archdiocese of Chicago? A That is correct. Q Could you give us examples of countries in which such concordats are in effect? A Well, there are scores of concordats. I can name some recent ones, say, in the last 25, 30 years, perhaps. There are concordats with Rumania, with Poland, Tu- nisia, France, Spain, Ecuador, Bolivia, Dominican Repub- lic, Italy, to name a few. . s * 44 Q (By Mr. Serritella) Are there any countries hos- tile to the Catholic Church with which concordats have not been established? h, yes. Q Could you give ue examples of those countries? A China, Peoples Republic of China. Q And what has happened to priestly education in those countries where there is no concordat and the gov- ernment intrudes itself into priestly education? A Priestly training there has been obliterated. [110] Q How has it been obliterated? A Through the closing of seminaries. Why have the seminaries been closed? A By governmental action. [111] Q Why does the Program of Priestly Formation Impose special admission requirements on those who want . B. mgr hat do you mean by “suitability for the Priest- A Refers to education, Spiritual, sometimes physical requirements that would be needed to be an effective Q Who sets those education, physical, and spiritual requirements? A The physical requirements have been set by the Holy See in the Code of Canon Law. The spiritual and to read that paragraph into the record. A “Local seminary administrators are urged to con- sult with parochial and public school officials of th2 area NR MA RA ak ay May ee ee ere 45 so that the seminary courses, as far as possible, may be integrated with the educational programs of the vicinity. [112] Some sharing of facilities and staff between semi- nary and local high schools may also be advisable.” I ask you to read the paragraph designated 353 which immediately follows. Q “In planning the curriculum, the seminary high school should take into account local or state require- ments and the recommendations of State or regional ac- crediting agencies.” Q So that this portion of our questioning, is complete, I would ask you to direct your attention to Page 82 of Employer’s Exhibit 4 and read Paragraph 364 into the record. A “Approval or its equivalent on a state level shall be required as a minimal condition of operation. Accredi- tation on the regional level should be a goal of all such schools. In the event that such accreditation is judged beyond the resources of the institution in terms of man- power or money, urgent thought should be given to amal- Q What do these three paragraphs taken together mean? A They are referring to that section of the Formation which is academic. You might use the phrase “secular education” that is mandatory in the region. , This type and quality of education should also be emphasized in the seminary. e * * * (114) *** Q Before we leave the statement of the National Council of Catholic Bishops, I have one further question. You were testifying about concordats. Is there a concordat between the United States and the Vatican? No. * * aa « Q (By Mr. Serritella) I have you what has been marked as Employer’s Exhibit No. 5 and ask you if you can identify that document? 46 A This is a report made by Bishop Grady in the name of the Archbishop, the Auxiliary Bishops, the Vicars Dele- gate, and the Consultors to members of the faculties of Quigley North and Quigley South, under the date of October 5, 1970, . (115) Q What was the purpose of this document? A This announced a decision approved by the Arch- bishop concerning the up-dating of the program of train- ing at the two Quigleys. Q Was this document prepared in accordance with the Code of Canon Law, the Decree on Priestly Forma- tion of the Second Vatican Council, and the Program for Priestly Formation by the National Conference of Catho- lic Bishops to which you have previously testified? A It does. However, it should be pointed out that this pre-dates by several months the Program of Priestly Formation of the National Conference of Catholi¢ Bish- ops. However— Q Which document takes precedence then? A Well, they both apply, one nationally for the na- tional scene, the other locally for the local institutions involved. However, I want to point out although the local document here predates the national] document, the chairman of the committee that drew up the national document happened to be one and the same Bishop Grady who is the author of this report, so this is the reason why it is in total accordance with the subsequent docu- ment of the U.S. Bishops. Q What is the legal status of the Employer’s Exhibit 5? Is it binding on the seminaries of the Archidocese of Chicago? A It is. [116] *** Q How did the document change the ad- mission policy of the minor seminaries of the Archdio- cese of Chicago? THE WITNESS: The Paragraph here under 1 is the innovation in admission policy. Hereafter admission is open to boys who not only have expressed positive de- 47 termination to pursue the priesthood but also boys who, in the [117] judgment of parish priests have the kind of character and temperament which might lead to the personal discovery of a vocation to the priesthood. Q (By Mr. Servitella) What does that mean? A I would say that it means that—the—it is acknow]- edged that many vocations, at least in the levels, the minor seminary level, are tentative, and one of the aims of a minor seminary is to uncover and solidify a tentative vocation so that it becomes positive and active. Q I don’t understand how your answer relates to that Subsection B. A Well, according to the wording of this regulation, I would say that interpretation is that as a qualification for admission, enrollment, in the seminaries hereafter a lad need not positively and in a determinate way express pursuit of the priesthood. However, he has the references of the parish priests who are able to state that this par- ticular lad has the fitness to pursue the priesthood, and that therefore he may well discover a vocation to the priesthood durin his training. Q And as a matter of law, would students who do not have the character, ability, and temperament which might lead to a personal discovery of a vocation to the priesthood be excluded from admission to the priesthood? A They should be according to these regulations. [118] Q Asa matter of law, did this alteration in this document of the admission policy at Quigley change the character of this institution from being that of a semi- nary? A No. The structure and nature and function of the seminary remains the same. + * * * [120] THE WITNESS: This is a way of restating what has been the Church’s awareness always regarding seminaries, that the life of the Church depends upon the life of the seminary. In fact, the term used in the Vati- can Council document referring to seminary is that it is the heart of the diocese, that it is the center of Vitality and growth and the effective means of pursuing the mis- 48 sion of the Church in the world. The Church depends upon seminaries as an indispensable vehicle of training. Q (By Mr. Serritella) And this applies to Quigley North and Quigley South, the minor seminaries of the Archdiocese of Chicago? A This document does not change the status of a seminary to a non-seminary. The institutions continue to be seminaries, and, as a result, are affected by the subsequent documents of both the U.S. Bishops and the Holy See that deal with seminaries, yes. * . * . [124] * * * MR. SERRITELLA: Page 12, Roman Numeral Three, first paragraph. THE WITNESS: Um-hum. Q (By Mr. Serritella) How does this relate to the administration of seminaries? A It speaks of the lay portion of the seminary fac- ulty. Q What prescriptions does it lay down for the lay portion of the seminary faculty? A It reminds the lay member of the seminary faculty of the added responsibility of being a part of this par- ticular faculty in the sense that the students are being prepared for the priesthood, and also the lay faculty members are reminded that there is even a result upon the faithful later on who will be served by these particu- lar students whom they are now educating, and this is taken as a great trust placed in the members of the faculty. [125] Q Is it also a mandate? A I understand this as rather a reminder of the par- ticular importance of the lay member of the faculty and the influence it has ultimately on the ministers of the Church and the people whom the ministers will serve. Q The document really puzzles me. How can an in- stitution admit people who do not have an intention to be priests and still be a seminary? A The seminary is not according to those regulations to admit boys who do not wish to be priests. It does allow admission of boys who, without positive and determined 49 will to pursue the priesthood, nonetheless have the tenta- tive inclination towards priesthood. Q Is that consistent with the Code of Canon Law? A It is. Q Is that consistent with the decree from Vatican Two? A It is. Q How is it consistent? It seems to be directly con- tradictory. ie A No. I mentioned earlier that the priesthood is a rigorous path to achieve, and that the attrition rate is remarkably high. It is understood totally by the Church and by seminary authorities that the vast majority of all the students, even those who from the very first day have an ardent, positive desire to pursue priesthood, never make [126] it. This is quite in accordance with the un- derstanding of the Church. Q_ Has this understanding changed from the time of the Code of Canon Law? A No. It is a perennial fact of life, of seminary life. [128] ** *Q (By Mr. Serritella) As a result of your foregoing testimony and as a result of your expertise as a canon lawyer, I ask you your opinion of what is the essential character of a seminary, a minor seminary, today? A The reason for the existence of a seminary, the purpose, aim, function of a seminary, is to prepare men for the Catholic priesthood. Q I ask you what is the position of the bishop with respect to a seminary today, seminaries like the minor seminaries in the Archdioxese of Chicago? A He operates those seminaries for that same purpose. {129} Q I ask you, can the Bishop today share his authority over such institutions with any outside group? A He is not free to transfer responsibility for the operation of seminaries to others. Q And that is a matter of Church law? A Yes. Q I ask you in view of all the foregoing how or why do seminaries today give a secular education? 50 A It is absolutely presupposed and been underscored again and again in the recent documents that a secular education has to be obtained by a student before we can even begin to think about the added qualifications of priestly ministry. Q And this is also 2 matter of law? A It is absolutely mandated. Q As a matter of Church law? A Yes. a * * * [133] Q But you do not feel that following those rec- ommendations or the state accreditation authority would be an interference with the delegation of authority, the prohibition against the delegation of authority on the part of the bishop in the operation of a seminary high school? A The Bishops’ law recommends such. Q Right. So there would be no conflict? A That’s right. Q So when we say that the bishop cannot share, dele- gate to any outside body the operation of a seminary, that is, of course, taking in line with the fact that there are certain public bodies that may have standards which the bishop may choose to follow? A Yes. Q And in fact, the Program of Priestly Formation recommends that particular course? A Yes. * * * 7. [160] * * * MONSIGNOR FRANCIS A. BRACKEN, called as a witness for and on behalf of Counsel for the Employer herein, and after having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: HEARING OFFICER: Please be seated and give your name and address to the court reporter. THE WITNESS: Monsignor Francis A. Bracken, 1220 West Catalpa. t Ps i ; 7 3 7 o 51 DIRECT EXAMINATION Q (By Mr. Serritella) Monsignor, what is located at that address? A That is the Rectory of St. Ita Parish. Q What is your business or profession, Monsignor? A Iam a Catholic priest, the Archdiocese of Chicago. Q Do you hold any position in the Archdiocese? A Yes. I am the Vicar General, the delegate of the Archbishop for administrative matters. Q Could you briefly explain your duties in that posi- tion? A As the Vicar General, I am the chief executive or administrative office next to the Ordinary of the Diocese. Q What is the Ordinary of the Diocese? A That is an ecumenical term for a man who is the bishop or archbishop of this particular diocese. [164] ** * Q What is The Catholic Bishop of Chi- cago, A Corporation Sole? Could you explain the legal designation? A It is a corporation which is vested in the person of the one who canonically holds the title of Bishop or Arch- bishop of Chicago and recognized as such the by the State of Illinois. Q Was that a special act of the legislative? A This was a special enabling act of the Legislature, [167] Q _ (By Mr. Serritella) Monsignor, I show you what has been marked as Employer’s Exhibit No. 8 for identification, and ask you to read the title on that docu- ment. A “The Official Catholic Directory, Anno Domini 1974”, Q Who published that document? A It is put out by the Kennedy Company, but the authorization is of the Bishops’ Conference of the United States. Q Does the Archdiocese of Chicago, or The Catholic Bishop of Chicago, appear in that document? 52 A It does, Q On what page of that document? A The complete listing of the Archdiocese of Chicago begins on Page 462 of this issue. « * o [168] ** * Q I eall your attention, Monsignor, to Page 174 of that directory. A Page 174? Q About a quarter of the way down the page there is a title. What is that title? A The overall title is “Institutions of the Archdio- cese’’, Q What is the first sub-title under that title? A “Seminaries, Diocesan’. Q What are the first listings under that sub-title? A In Chicago, Quigley Preparatory School North; then Quigley Preparatory Seminary South. Q Could you please give the addresses of those insti- tutions? A The Quigley Preparatory, North, is 103 East Chest- nut Street. Quigley, South, 7740 South Western Avenue. Q Are any other institutions listed under the sub-title “Seminaries, Diocesan’? A Mundelein, St. Mary of the Lake Seminary, and Niles, Niles College of Loyola University. This com- pletes the listing. Q Are those official seminaries of the Archdiocese of Chicago? A They are. Q By their presence in the official Catholic Directory [169] are they officially recorded by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and the National Confer- ence of Catholic Bishops as seminaries? A They are. Q Are they officially recognized as seminaries by the Catholic Bishop of Chicago, A Corporation Sole? A They are. Q Are high schools listed anywhere in that directory? A Yes, they are. Q Where are high schools listed in the directory? 53 A The heading begins on Page 175 and has several divisions, I believe. Q High schools, you are referring to Catholic paro- chial high schools? A Yes. - * . . [171] Q (By Mr. Serritella) Monsignor, I show you what has been marked as Employer’s Exhibit No. 9 for identification and ask you to read the title on the cover of that document. A Seminaria Ecclesiae Catholicae. Q Could you please spell those words? A S-e-m-i-n-a-r-i-a; next word, E-c-c-l-e-s-i-a-e; third word, C-a-t-..-0-l-i-c-a-e, Q Who published that document? A It is published—I will read it in Latin. Sacra Con- gregatio de Seminariis et Studiorum Universitatibus. Translated it is Sacred Congregation of Seminaries and of Higher Studies and Universities, Q Is that the— A This is an official listing of the seminaries. [172] ** * Q I direct your attention to Page 1313 of that document, the bottom of the page. Would you please read the listing that begins at that point? A I will read it in Latin, and where necessary, trans- late into English for your benefit. A “Chicago”, which is referred to by the Latin word Chicagiensis, and the date of establishment 28th of No- vember, 1843; the Metropolitan City; and reestablished in 1880. Q That refers to Chicago? A Asa See, an episcopal see. Q And the listing under that is? A Seminarium Maius: followed by the words “St. Mary of the Lake Seminary (Mundelein, Illinois). Q What does seminarium maius mean? [173] A Means major seminary. Q I will ask you to skip the narrative under that title and go on to the next listing under Chicago. 54 A “Seminarium Minus.” Q Go ahead. A “Quigley Preparatory Seminary, 103 East Chest- nut Street, Chicago, 11, Illinois.” Q What does seminarium minus mean? A Means minor seminary. Q There is a long, about a six-line Latin text— A Which I will translate for you. Q —below that listing. A It was established by Archbishop James Quigley in the year 1905. In the year 1917 Archbishop, later Cardinal, George Mundelein constructed a new building to which the anem of the second Archbishop of Chicago he placed upon it. The seminary in the year 1926 was enlarged. In the year 1960 through the efforts of His Eminence Cardinal Albert Meyer a new edifice was built to which was given the name Quigley Seminary South because of the site in the southern part of the City of Chicago. And on the 12th day of September, 1962, was opened. Q. Monsignor, are the high school— A I would like to correct that word. Really it should be dedicated. (174) Q Thank you. Are the parochial or catholic high schools in the Archdiocese of Chicago listed in this directory? A They are not. Q Why not? A Because they are not seminaries. [175] * * * Q (By Mr. Serritella) Monsignor, I show you what has been marked as Employer’s Exhibit No. 10 for identification [176] and ask you to read the title on the cover of that document. A The title reads “U.S. Catholic Institutions for the Training of Candidates for the Priesthood”. Q Who published that document? A_ An organization called CARA, which are the letters for Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate, Wash- ington, D.C, » ’ , . 55 Is this organization an official branch of the Ro- man Catholic Church? A Itis. How is it related to the Roman Catholic Church in the United States? A It is the research arm for the Conference of Catholic Bishops in the United States. _ Q What year was this document published? A “CARA Seminary Directory, 1974.” Q Are the Quigley North and Quigley South Semi- naries listed in this directory? A They are. Q On what pages do they appear? , A On Page 21 under listing number 157, Quigley Prep School-North; on Page 22, you have under No. 158, you have Quigley Preparatory Seminary-South. Q Are the parochial high schools or catholic high schools in the Archdiocese of Chicago listed in this directory? [177] A They are not. (180) * * * Q Monsignor, now that you have tes- tified as to the composition or the institutions included in the Archdiocese of Chicago seminaries, could you briefly describe the progress of a young man from the earliest years in those institutions to ordinate as a priest so that we know what we are talking about? A Upon graduation from an elementary school the usual procedure or policy in the Archdiocese for the lad if he desires or has thought of becoming a priest would be to enter one of our two minor seminaries, depending upon where [181] where he lives. He goes through an academic and a formation preparing there. Also he has certain evaluations on the part of the seminary itself. On graduation from the particular institution if he has still the desire to continue, has met the necessary stand- ards of the institution, and has the approbation of the faculty, he would enter Niles College at Niles, Illinois, where he would continue his education at the college level. There would be a more organized, if I might use 56 the expression, formation program developed. Again he would have to meet the various academic criteria, the progress and character development. He would have to keep his intention of proceeding on to the priesthood, and if, in the judgment of the proper faculty and administra- tors of the seminary, he would receive approval he would then enter St. Mary of the Lake Seminary at Mundelein, Illinois, and begin the study of theology. This, of course, is a four year program. As Niles, it has a number of different programs. Basically it is theology. At the end of that period, if he has again met the necessary standards, still has the desire for ordination, has the approval of the seminary itself, he enters a petition requesting ordination to the Ordinary of the diocese and on the proper day he would be ordained to the priesthood in the Archdiocese of Chicago. This is a very brief sketch. There would be many, many things that could (182] be added; in the interest of time I am presenting it in schematic form. Q Does the Archdiocese permit students to ent Niles College who did not d f the Seon! graduate from one of the A There is a policy of admission. It is of co different from those coming from the Quigley pintetnine, {183} First of all, there is an Admissions Board. There is a great deal more evaluation required because it is not known, the character and so forth of the man, his ay for a a is not the usual procedure. s graduation from one of the Quigleys and desig- nation of the student’s good standin ce a se Niles College?” accent f the young man graduates from Quigle i- nary, either one of them, and has the Basen | iy faculty there is no further admissions procedure re- quired, such as would be from a non-Quigley student. Q Do you know—and I am not sure this is within your knowledge—the percentage of students at Niles College right now that the Catelonet came from schools other than 57 A I do not kNow the exact number. All I could say is a relatively small percentage. rig9} * * * Are you familiar with that document, Monsignor? A lam. Q Did you participate in the preparation of that document. A I did. Q Do you supervise generally the administration of the directives contained in that document? A Ido. (190] Q And you administer the administration of those directives insofar as it relates to Quigley North and Quigley South? A Ido. Does that document speak to the admissions policy of those institutions? A It does. Q Could you direct your attention to the specific portion of the document that speaks to the admissions policy of Quigley North and Quigley South? A On page 2, as far as the second half of the page, there was a motion that for a one-year experiment there would be a change in the admission policies of the two Quigleys. Q What was that change? A The change was that they would accept boys properly recommended and having a sufficient academic ability and moral character in whom there might be a chance or a potential if they did come to the Quigley seminaries they might develop a positive vocation to the priesthood. Q And such boys were permitted to enter the Quigleys after the implementation of this directive in addition to boys who had a positive desire to be priests? A That is correct. Q You testified that this was a one-year experiment. Has the experiment been renewed? 58 (191] A The experiment has been continuing to the present and has been undergoing very serious evaluation at the present time. Q Has it been renewed on a year-to-year basis? A It has. Q What was the purpose for changing the admis- sions policy of the Quigley? A The purpose was as true throughout the entire world that there was a decline in the attendance at seminaries and the recruitment of candidates for the priesthood. It was thought perhaps opening the minor seminaries to a wider choice of boys would help to overcome the trend toward a decline in vocations, and this was on an experimental basis to see what would happen. [216] * * * A What is called Quigley today was founded in 1905 by Archbishop James Edward Quigley and was originally called the Cathedral College of the Sacred Heart. Q Was the Cathedral College of the Sacred Heart the “— — seminary of the Archdiocese of Chicago? es. Q And by “minor seminary” you mean a seminary that gives training at the high school level? A Yes. Why was the original minor seminary of the Arch- — of Chicago called Cathedral College of the Sacred eart [217] A That was a custom that was followed in many places. The Bishop usually tried to locate his seminary as close to his cathedral as possible because part of the scheduling of the seminary involved participation in the ceremonies held at the Cathedral and usually wherever it was possible selective seminarians would act and be on ceremonies and as much cases possible they would be part of the choir system of the Cathedral. It, of course, has reference to a very early develop- ment historically, the Bishop, and in the very ancient days following Trent, before even they would actually 59 . uct their seminary themselves, of course, the Bishop s = church was a atioieal and it was all, you might say, tentatively one complex. Not elaborate perhaps, but | would say there were two reasons, a very ancient or they’re working with and studying under the a supervision of the Bishop and his staft at his cathedra and, secondly, practical advantages from the —— of education, being part of the Cathedral ceremonies an music program. - * * * (221) Q During this period, 1905 through 1962? A 1961, basically. Q I’m sorry. ane you familiar with the curriculum at the minor seminary? A Yes, I am. Q Are you familiar with the extracurricular ac- tivities? ' A Ye am. Q pecke this period were secular subjects taught the students in addition to religion? A Oh, yes. alae , Why is that the case toed it’s necessary for a complete education or a preparatory education for college work. It would be taken for granted if we require a secular education as part of any education, so definitely we had all the usual subjects that would be common to a college prepara- tory curriculum. ae You testified as to what was the ath- tic ae ao, the beginning until the mid- 60’s. Do you know what the current athletic policy is? A The current athletic policy, beginning about 63, ’64, was to engage both in—rather, in an highly-developed physical education program, which would touch all the students, to keep a basic intramural program and then to go into varsity sports, and that is the policy in effect resent time. e ag ts there anything about a seminary which makes varsity athletics objectionable? A No, there isn’t. me — bong explain that answer? t’s a question of ped - eral outlook on the scene. en om _ In different periods of time and in different stages in our culture, in our academic outlook there have been different viewpoints, It’s a question, if you can pro- vide these things, and there are different ways of pro- viding them, certain there’s nothing intrinsically wrong. There has been a shift and I think it is very ap- parent that in the older seminaries there was the idea of what we call, for the sake of the discussion, a closed seminary idea. In other words, I think you can see traces of it in this document of October the 5th where it definitely men- tioned that there was an overprotective aspect to it, this type of thing, and with the changing and some of the reactions of Vatican II we moved from what was called the philosophy of a closed seminary very broadly into what we could call an open seminary development in which we would allow the seminary to participate much more naturally and openly in the psychology and the various aspects of pedagogy that were taking place on the American scene. So, with that in mind, it was quite natural that var- sity athletics which brings the seminarians into open competition with their peers and the same grade level or [230] school-type organizations would be but a natural development. There is a great deal of interest in the American scene in athletics, professional and, of course, in the edu- cational institutions and this spills over into an institu- tion such as the seminary. There’s certainly nothing intrinsically wrong with the engaging of seminarians in competitive sports with their peers, other institutions, and the present outlook is that this is a very healthy thing and worthwhile thing. ame *** Q Catholic priests are celibate; are they A They are. 61 Q What does that mean? A That means that, when they are ordained origin- ally, they took this particular solem promise at the time of the de actna. Now, they take it at the time of de actna. They give up voluntarily the right to be married. Do priests get any special training for celibacy? A The whole approach to the seminary formation system is to prepare them for this type of life and that is one of the reasons that there is a fair amount of em- phasis on athletics. It’s sort of an outlet for energy and for interest to help them in their later years. [233] Q Has the training for celibacy carried on in the minor seminaries from 1905 until the present changed at all? A Yes, there has been some change, and, of course, it’s tied in with shifts in what we say behavioral science and psychology and the church over the years tries to adapt itself and its techniques and its training institu- tions in accord with the findings that come from other fields of knowledge. The basic idea that a priest is going to be a celibate doesn’t change, but how you prepare and condition a man for that, there certainly are different ways of doing it. I mentioned earlier that we had the principle of the so-called closed seminary system, and that was in ex- istence; and, when we came over to American from the European seminaries and it was a very vigorous type of existence and psychology. In the last 15, 20 years the findings of modern psy- cology, and that has brought out the idea that a priest is going to live in the world; that the adolescent, when he’s going to make a commitment to celibacy, should understand very fully what it means in modern life, his training, and the programs that are used in the semin- aries should reflect the different thinking. [234] The end product would be the same, but the means to accomplish it are quickly different and actually are different. So there were some very restrictive policies when I was both a student and a teacher in the seminary with re- gard to the social life of the seminarians. 62 This has been broadened considerably and the changes begin in the early 1960 while I was still in the faculty and we had many, many meetings, and many, many dis- cussions and we had an input from people, phychological disciplines, and some of the documentation, and so forth coming from Rome and some of it’s reflected, of course, in the program, the priestly formation that there has to be a shift in this, wanted a more natural infironment for seminarians to develop in. There was no reason why there could not be mixed social events, and this type of thing, but there should be the pointing out and supervision, and so forth, that goes with it; that the day will come when they must make a decision. Are they going to enter the life of the priesthood with its obligation of celibacy and with a full knowledge of what that means, the giving up of marriage, the right to have children, and so forth, or are they going to decide this is not the life for me, “I don’t think I want to live that type of life, I cannot give up that part of me, if you want to put it that way. [235] and so even- tually the decision wisely made with their counselors, advisors, district directors, in terms you want to use with them, is made. * . * oe [240] *** Q Has this high attrition rate been part of the [241] Archdiocese seminarian system from 1900? A The present rate, no. There was a better survival rate from entering Quigley to ordination percentage-wise in the earlier years. The dropout rate, which we are now facing, definitely is much higher, and it is now, however, peculiar to the Archdiocese of Chicago. It’s reflected in the seminaries throughout the world according to the studies that we have. * * * * [251] Q Do Catholic high schools always have chap- els? A_ No, they don’t. Most of them have. If they have a resident facility for the faculty, they will have what they call a small or tiny house chapel for the religious faculty. 63 Many of them in no way have what they would call a student-size chapel. , Q Why does Quigley have a student-sized chapel : A Because the overall purpose, it’s a seminary, a place for the training of young men for the priesthood and the religious formation, aspect certainly has very high priority, and this chapel, when it was originally built, was gauged to a size where every student attending the seminary could be fitted in for various religious cere- monies. * + * _ [259] * * * Q Monsignor, has the Archdiocese posi- tion on lay teachers in seminaries changed from the early days about [260] which you just testified to the present? A The basic concept that is good for the students to see lay people end realize that they are very capable, able, and dedicaed people has not changed. The idea of having them or the need for having them has changed somewhat and the early days we definitely had an adequate supply of priests and we would have not been required to use lay teachers in the seminary system. Today there is a shortage of priests in the Archdiocese and in fact in most diocese throughout the world, and for that reason we have found it more necessary to use lay teachers in our seminary system. [262] * * * Q Monsignor, does Quigley South have a chapel? A ~ It was what we call technically a chapel. [263] * * * Q Monsignor, is such a chapel part of the ordinary architecture of a Catholic school in Chicago? A I would say definitely not. [271] *** Q I didn’t ask a question yet, Monsignor. Monsignor, who operates the Archdiocesan seminaries? A Legally it would be the Catholic Bishop of Chicago, a Corporation Sole. Pe Q And through what intermediaries does he operate the seminaries? 64 A He operates by the appointment of rectors for each of the seminaries. At the seminary itself, between that there are other facets. Q Who are the intermediaries between the Catholic Bishop and the rectors? A I would say the principle one would be the Vica General [272] acting in the name of the ordinary Arch- diocese. (274) ** * Q Is the Archdiocese of Chicago School Board the intermediary between the Catholic. Bishop and the seminaries of the Archdiocese? A No, it is not. Q How are these seminaries administered? A They are administered directly under the super- vision of the Arenibishop and in certain areas I collabo- rate with him as a Vicar General. Q Why is that the case? A Because I believe it came out very strongly in ecu- menical presentation that the seminaries being internal ecclesiastical schools in the training of the priesthood are a direct responsibility and a personal responsibility of an Ordinary. [276] ** * Q I direct your attention to page 29 of Employer’s Exhibit No. 15, to the hearing on that page that reads “Subsidize and Donations,” and ask you to explain the entries under that heading. A “Details of subsidy for the seminary system were for the fiscal year to make up the operating deficit, St. Mary of the Lake Seminary, a million twenty-five thou- sand; Niles College, $695,000; Quigley North, $193,000; Quigley South, $455,000, for a total of $2,368,000. Q What is the total subsidy given to Parochial schools in the Archdiocese? A For this particular year maybe, I believe, 10 or 11 of them, hardship schools. It would be $600,000. . (277) Q How many high schools does that go to? A That would be, I believe, for this year, I think we subsidize either nine or eleven. 65 Q Is there such a disparity between the total subsi- dies given to the seminary and the total subsidy given to the Archdiocesan high schools? A Well, the basic responsibility of the operation of the financing of the seminaries is tied in with the obli- gation of the Bishop to have the seminaries to operate them, and they are his particular responsibilities. He does not have the same responsibility for the regu- lar high school in the Archdiocese and the different type of institutions. [288] ** * Q _ (By Mr. Serritella) Monsignor, in the course of your testimony today and previously you re- ferred to certain differences in the administration of seminaries and the administration of Parochial schools from the point of view of the Archdiocese. I would ask you now to testify in a more orderly fashion and perhaps list those differences for purposes of the record. A There are a number of points involved here. First of all, with regard to the administration, it was pointed out that the rectors are the delegates to the Ordinary for the actual day-to-day operation. The Bishop is held canonically responsible for the operation of seminaries, his seminaries, and to implement this he has begun a series of monthly meetings which I attend ex oficio and which various policy matters, decision, plan- [289] ning, budget presentations, personnel questions, so forth, are all considered. This is a matter of personal involvement. He actually chairs the meetings and these occur with the frequency of approximately once a month. All four rectors are at each meeting, depending on the particular facets of an agenda. Sometimes the business managers or procurators are also present or other people involved. It’s also ex oficio. The priest who takes care of vocational work attends these meetings and acts as secretary. The Ordinary, therefore, is definitely involved in the operation of the policies, and so forth, for the seminaries. He does this, of course, for no other type of institution 66 such as the high schools in the Archdiocese. Their work is done, that type of thing is done through the Archdio- cesan School Board. With regard to the financial operations, the actual ap- proval of the budget, the handling of the funds which are involved in the budget are all handled through the physical Office of the Chancery. The employes’ checks are prepared and sent out, 99'% per cent of the time I signed those checks. The vouchers for various items, bills, what have you, are all handled as a part of the bookkeeping. In fact, there is no real bookkeeping at the local seminar- [290] ies. That is all a matter of work done at the Chancery. We don’t do this for other schools. This is just because of the connection of the seminaries’ personal involvement of the Archbishop. * * * * [291] * * * Q What accounts for this special treat- ment for the administration of seminaries? A The fact that by Canon Law he is made responsi- ble for—a Canon Law interpreter, sometimes when he gets into this section of Canon Law, points out that it’s really the first obligation of an Ordinary to take care of the seminaries, points out the relationship very clearly, so I don’t think there’s any question in the Canon Law aspects of it that certainly from what actually takes place here in the Archdiocese of Chicago there isn’t any difficulty about making a place that the seminaries have in the Archdiocese and the relationship of the Ordinary to them. Q Is there any other reason for this special treat- ment? A I don’t see whether it would be another reason. I think the—first of all, it’s a matter of obligation and, [292] of course, the overall reason is to provide priests. (304! ** * MR. SERRITELLA: That concludes our direct-examination of Monsignor Bracken, and Mr. Na- than may inquire. 67 CROSS EXAMINATION [309] * * * Q Is a young man who is ordained— strike that, please. If two men are ordained from St. Mary of the Lake and one of them went to or through the Quigleys, one of the Quigleys, but the other one did not, is there anything in canon law which would make the one which did not go through the Quigleys any less of a priest? [310} *** A No, there isn’t. [335] * * * Q Who developed the curricula at the Quigley Schools? es A The original development is obscured in history going back to 1905. But basically it has been an evolv- ing program reflecting the educational concepts that are developed in corresponding institutions of secular teaching. The men who are responsible for the institu- tions have taken work in curriculum building. They usually have degrees in the field of education. My own background, I took a course in curriculum building. And usually the work is done through faculty committees where there are major changes to be made; the prograin is discussed and developed. If it is going to be a major shift, it can sometimes be taken up in committee with the Ordinary there to be sure there are no problems. There are many influences at work. Some indication is given, of course, as you recall, [[{336] from the canon law. You have to have the basics of secular education. ‘So it is, you might say, a resultant effect of many in- fluences at work to try and make the educational pro- gram, the curriculum, the best available for the par- ticular purpose which is basically college preparatory. (3371 * * * Q Now, you mentioned something about the North Central Association and some recent inspec- tions. What are you referring to? 68 A Both schools are accredited by the North Central Association, and several years ago—because they don’t do it every year—the North Central made its usual inspection evaluation of each of the two schools. They send in a team of qualified people in various areas, and then they evaluate the school against the philosophy of the school. In this case this happened to be special schools. So they were evaluated as special purpose in- stitu- [338] tions, namely the seminary aspect of it. Q Now, you covered a lot of ground there. What is the North Central Association? It is not clear on the record what we are talking about. A The North Central Association of High Schools and Colleges is a regional accrediting association, volun- tary but very predominant in the Midwest, which tries to coordinate educational policies to attain the best pos- sible program, make sure that students are properly prepared for college entrance, things of that type, and it has been in existence for many years. It is highly respected in its particular field. Q Is it a Church-related organization? A No. It is an independent organization. Q Does it evaluate or set standards for other private schools, other than religious-affiliated private schools? A It is able to evaluate schools both public and pri- vate. [344] ** * Q Are the Quigley Schools also accredited by any other non-church affiliated agency? _ A You are using the word “accrediation”, I presume, in its very technical scense? Q No. I am using it as rather a general sense. May- be accreditation does not fully fit. A They have full recognition from the Department of Education of the State of Illinois. Q Does the Department of Edueation of the State of Illinois have any standards? A Yes, they do. Q Do the Quigley Schools meet those standards? A They do. 69 (346) * * * Q (By Mr. Nathan) Are there any standards the School has to meet in order for — students to be eligible for scholarships from the State o wei would say the different scholarship programs have different purposes and different requirements. I think that we are talking—basically we keep in the realm of the recognition by the State of Illinois. Public law requires certain basic requirements for graduation, and these, of course, are easily met by the Quigleys. Q The Quigley Schools do meet those statutory re- quirements? A Yes. ' [347] * * * Q Do you know what particular varsity sports presently exist at either of the two Schools or both . A T could give a general answer because there are some very minor differences in the programs at the two Schools. They have a varsity basketball, they have it in baseball, they have it in swimming; I believe they also have it—at least in one School—in tennis. They are preseutly building up in soccer. And I guess I men- ll. . t308) “ MR. NATHAN: Would you mark this, please, as Petitioner’s Exhibit 2 for identification? (The document above-referred to was marked Pe- titioner’s Exhibit No. 2 for identification. ) MR. NATHAN: I would say for the record as I distribute this that I have physically blotted out the name and the salary of the particular individual who supplied me with this contract. It is not germaine to my tioning. ar) (By Mr. Nathan) Monsignor Bracken, do you recognize the form of this document? A Ido. , (356] * * * Q And would you tell me what this document is? “A This is a contract, a blank form for practical pur- poses, which is used for the employment of lay teachers at Quigley North and at Quigley South. 70 (357) ** * Does this contract set forth the terms and conditions of employment for teachers at the tw igley Schools? s e two Quigley A Yes. [358] * * * Q Does this contract also set out the fringe benefits for the teachers that the Corporation provides? Q sn general it does. n general it does. How does i i r or ot do specifically? S it do it specifically ell, it mentioned two fringe benefits others, namely, the Blue Cross-Blue Shield cake weit cal, and it also makes reference to a pension program. It does not bring in the fact there is a $2,000 life in- surance policy during their term of employment. Q. Let us take this. Let’s take the life insurance first. Is this a life insurance policy which would cover an employee as long as he was a lay teacher at the two Quigley Schools, either of the Schools? (359| A It would cover him as long as he is an em- agg of The Catholic Bishop of Chicago. A Corporation * * * >. - * 4 (371) - *" Q There is also reference in this contract to a pension plan. Is this the same pension plan which e C ! Vv n (372) ** * Now, there is a he i | Now, alth insurance provided in this contract. Is this the same general health insur- ance provided to other regula -ti ; of the Corporation? gular, full time, lay employ ees A Yes. (374) *** Q Are the lay [ . y teachers at Quigley N and Quickley South Preparatory High Scho A hese e . as this one . 71 (375) * * * (By Mr. Nathan) Now, as set forth in Appendix B, which is the last page of this document, lay teachers receive a certain amount of money in addi- tion to their regular salary for participating in or di- recting various extracurricular activities, is that correct? A That is correct. Q Would you just briefly—I don’t want to burden the record—but just briefly explain to me How this works? I see a lot of percentages. I see numbers, I-H-S-A, or letters rather, I-H-S-A, for baseball—basket- ball rather. Explain how this system works. A Across the top we have 0-3, 4-6, 7-9, 10-12, 13-15. That has reference to the years of experience of coaching or moderating the particular sport or activity. The per- centages are based on the master starting salary for that '376] particular school year. The master salary would be $10,000. And for varsity, because the coach is in his first three years for an activity, he would be paid 9 percent of that salary. The following year if the master salary had increased, he would still be in that same cate- gory because he would be in the same category, but he would get an increase because the base salary went up. The numbers in front, 22, 18 has reference to the actual number of varsity public appearances. It is based on that rough approximation of responsibility. The I-H-S-A, the Illinois High School Association, that would be for teams which would be participating in that particular league arrangement and so on down the line. Some of these things are common to both schools, so there were certain general exceptions made because the responsibilities were different. Actually they were sup- posed to be carried, which recommendation came from the Teachers’ Committee at both schools working together investigating, as I understand, what was being done at similar types of institutions. Q And this Teachers’ Committee then made recom- mendations to the whatever—delegation at the time? A They funneled them through me, and I took a— set up a process to have them approved. Q And who was on this Teachers’ Committee? 72 wens cummntitonn iets two dierent sikedis thet werhel eee ools that worked os Tey —— oe teachers only? To mE..1..-4. y Pagers pol = nd veal tS - , oat e past have met with Po FS) a —, had Ny difficulty with the time saniniiane of MP cg ll p Feed ao Pay an of this contract, other than the schedule for fringe benefits? To fee—provide i sy tle p input for salary structure and A Yes. Q And who determines the sala \ ry structure, or what connection do you have wi ini ' — y th determining the salary A I am Executive Officer of th i \ e Archdiocese. I, of course, have a superior. The superior works with various committees, financial committees, Board of Consultors - hoe committees from the financial world, and so a ecision of this type usually involves all these elements. And thi Py other a salary schedule did involve these (380| *** There was one other poi point that I neg! . ask you before, and I apologize for taking this mye equence. We talked about celibacy and dating and the like. Is dating or hete : at Niles Calle A : rosexual general relations allowed ; A : oy we will have to put i round. It is not absolutely prohibited. Q_ It is tolerated then? . ste A Yes. In the lower years. t the other way 73 Q It would not be tolerated at St. Mary of the Lake? A No. (383) en? REDIRECT EXAMINATION (388) *** Q (By Mr. Serritella) Let me put the question a different way, Monsignor. At any point in time has the policy of dismissing a student at the Quigleys when that student has ceased showing an interest in or promise for the priesthood changed over time? A I think I understand your point. There has been _there is a history involved. And the years in which 1 worked primarily at Quigley and for shortly before I left Quigley it was a policy, and as a result of an agreement with other Catholic high schools, that they would accept students any time from the Quigleys if a student would be dismissed or [389] for good reason wished to drop, depending on the circumstances, either during the year or at the end of an academic year. In fact, at one time there was an actual regulation in the diocese that a boy who came to Quigley and was dismissed was taken into a Catholic high school. That regulation gradually fell into disuse, and a policy, a definitely worked out policy, was developed that a boy would under ordinary circumstances always be allowed to finish his present academic year, and from there came the policy that unless there were problems of discipline or major problems academically he would be allowed to continue at Quigley until he graduated. And that is the policy that is presently in effect, which explains why we have a fairly high graduating class. And then, of course, the decision has been made sometimes as much as two years before of not continuing for the priesthood. Q Just to pin it down and relate it to my previous question, while the percentage of students who entered one of the Quigleys and went on to Niles College or to the college level remained relatively stable over these years, the percentage of students who entered the 74 ——— and actually graduated from the Quigleys in- A Correct. Q Does the Archdiocese com pel students wh ion a ee to go on to Niles College? — ) y no means. The policy is to ask them t consider again [Text truncated at 120,000 characters. The full text is on the page linked above.] --- Source: Frix Law Library, https://www.frixlaw.com/law-library/documents/brief%3Amicro_IA40385005_0845%3A02. Public record. Not legal advice.